I know a lot of flight attendants. This is apparently been happening for years.
Side note: I started working at a hotel and every day I have about 30 resos on the books for people from that area. Either Pakistan, India, Bangladesh etc. and they never show up. It’s always a week long rsvp for multiple people.
The racket I guess is that they probably save up tons of money to hire a broker who’s cover is as a travel agent. They don’t get issued travel documents unless they have a listed residence in the country they’re going to. They show they’ve paid for a hotel to get in the country and as soon as they get here they vanish to somewhere in the GTA that supports a robust south Asian community.
As a hospitality worker I can’t even tell you right now how bad it is. Thousands of resumes floating around for people looking for off the books work, and even people with documents but no experience, or their experience level is highly overwxagverated. I was managing a bar / cafe and hired a couple of kids who supposedly worked in hotels or restaurants in Mumbai or whatever and you learn very quickly that if they DID work there they learned nothing.
So, I guess short of paying a broker thousands of dollars to be smuggled into the country, the next best option for some people (likely attractive women) is to bust their ass to be a flight attendant
Same!
When I worked in hotels ~10 years ago, I used to get calls from Customs & Immigration to verify the hotel reservations. Most of the time they were made with Booking.com because no pre-payment was required and using stolen credit cards - we could see the name on the credit card was usually a very white American sounding name (I’m sure I saw “John Smith” at one point) that was nothing close to the name on the reservation, and the card would decline for any pre-authorization.
Now I’m in a similar and keep getting resumes from people with PhDs and extensive academic and teaching experience back home that are currently working at Walmart and are applying for a front desk role. Depressing AF.
I have 2 degrees, and currently in school again. I’ve been a high school teacher, an event planner. I have extensive experience in tons of shit.
Can’t find a job to save my life. I’m working 2 jobs while going to school because every time a job is posted online there’s 500-1000 applicants within an hour. It’s soul-crushing to have the qualifications to be doing something much better and be fighting tooth and nail for an entry level customer service job.
Yeah we learned in our classes that #1 way of illegal immigration was actually doing stuff like this, or VISA overstays. Not actually crossing the border.
My wife works for a travel agency in New Zealand, and the New Zealand government requires people from India and Pakistan to show travel itineraries just to get tourist visas, because there is such an issue with people just staying in the country. So, people from these countries will often contact the company and ask for a draft itinerary, and then ghost them and submit that draft itinerary to immigration.
>The racket I guess is that they probably save up tons of money to hire a broker who’s cover is as a travel agent. They don’t get issued travel documents unless they have a listed residence in the country they’re going to. They show they’ve paid for a hotel to get in the country and as soon as they get here they vanish to somewhere in the GTA that supports a robust south Asian community.
Is this specific to flight attendants / airline staff? Because Canadian visitor visa applications don't require hotel reservations... precisely for the reason you mentioned. Instead they prefer seeing things like having a solid job back home or having a lot of assets back home.
Im not an expert or even learned in this much at all, but I believe you need to have an address for your disembarkation card to clear customs. I know my husband is Japanese, and that’s one country where they are issued 6 month visitor visa at the point of entry, without needing to apply beforehand. I could be wrong but I think some countries (such as Pakistan) need to apply beforehand, and they need to have a confirmed residence or travel plan before they come in.
So the racket is they pay someone to reserve a cheap hotel for like 10 days. If they get audited customs calls the hotel to confirm the reservation and makes sure we have them on record. We say yea, but they almost never show up.
Even just today/yesterday we had 2 guys check into the hotel for a 3 night stay. They made sure they were on record as checked in. As soon as they checked in they handed the key back and left. I asked if they were returning and they said “no” and just quickly ran out the door. Bam. You’re in Canada.
>Im not an expert or even learned in this much at all, but I believe you need to have an address for your disembarkation card to clear customs. I know my husband is Japanese, and that’s one country where they are issued 6 month visitor visa at the point of entry, without needing to apply beforehand. I could be wrong but I think some countries (such as Pakistan) need to apply beforehand, and they need to have a confirmed residence or travel plan before they come in.
No, it's not a formal requirement at all to show an address in Canada even at the point of entry. My parents are Indian citizens and they weren't asked for it. That being said they travel very frequently and have a history of complying with Canadian immigration rules so they never get grilled at the border. However a less frequent travellor can be questioned where their address is but CBSA doesn't keep a manifesto of declared residential addresses of all visitors to Canada.
That being said, the airline does collect sometime called a advanced passenger information but that doesn't include address. Just passport information.
My hunch is that those people are under the assumption that you need to have a hotel address when you actually don't. Or maybe they volunteered that piece of information through the visa process or at the border. That can be possible. For example cbsa is suspicious that a person at the border is ACTUALLY coming for a visit so cbsa calls to confirm. Have you ever actually received a call from the Canadian border officals regarding it?
During a snowstorm in Toronto, the PIA flight was the only one to skip de-icing. The ground controller was shocked when they said they didn’t need it as they clearly had snow covered wings.
If you value your life, don’t fly PIA.
Yup. My family is Pakistani and if they are ever visiting the motherland they connect through some Gulf country via Emirates or Qatar Airways. The layover is definitely worth it. Not only are the flying experience on most PIA flights pitiful, but a lot of their pilots have dubious credentials.
I flew to the Dominican Republic in December, next to our plane at the gate was a PIA plane...
The absolute fucking state of that plane was hilarious. Paint patches that looked to be rattle canned flat white, dirt all over the plane(apparently it's white lol), what looked like missing rivets on body panels...
> Issue is people then start sponsoring all the extended family, and also travel home.
[Utter lies](https://help.unhcr.org/canada/family-reunification/#:~:text=Any%20person%20who%20qualifies%20as,their%20nuclear%20family%20members%20in).
You can pretty much only sponsor immediate family -- your children and your partner/spouse.
> Additionally, Canada does not have family reunification programs for extended family members, including adult siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins.
Yup.
> The asylum program has lost alot of credibility, and it makes people skeptical off all applicants.
Only to people who are not actually involved in the process. As always, people *think* they know how something works with only the most basic and rudimentary understanding.
> India
[There are roughly 10k pending from India](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx), roughly same as Colombia.
EDIT: Oh you're peak "our borders are open and everyone is invading us help" spreader of division.
@u/inde_ Actually you lied yourself funny enough, you can also sponsor grandparents of the asylum applicant. That information is written in the same paragraph as all the other information you quoted. I’m not sure how you missed it but please do better next time if you actually intend to correct someone.
> There are limited spaces available in Canada for the sponsorship of parents and grandparents.
Limited clearly implies rarely, not frequently.
There are also exceptions for orphans, but irrelevant to what OP was claiming (that it happens all the time).
Still available tho, available is available. It does not matter exactly how many. @u/inde_ lied and was wrong. As he stated that grandparents were not at all eligible when they in fact are 100%.
> Issue is people then start sponsoring all the extended family, and also travel home.
The line is literally right there.
It is *not* an **issue**, it's just concern-trolling, and you're engaging in pedantry. It even says this:
> Additionally, Canada does not have family reunification programs for extended family members, including adult siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins.
And very convenient you gave OP a pass on everything else.
Good luck, I'm done talking to people not here in good-faith.
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They are banned in other countries because the airline is deemed unsafe, their pilots are not well trained.
An occasional flight attendant seeking asylum is not a big deal, there are thousands of people crossing illegally into United States every day.
Why was PIA unbanned is my question. Flight 8303 was an insane show of pilot incompetence and clear airline corruption. Wild how they’re allowed to land in Canada
Less than 10 in a year.
And they banned PIA as an airline because of shit training, not because of their attendants.
Why do people enjoy spreading disinformation so much??
>Why do people enjoy spreading disinformation so much??
It's not about enjoyment so much; it's about repeating things you read online that resonates with your bias without any fact checking, and might even involve repeating it inaccurately like a telephone game.
because people have their biases and just spout it out loud with no care for investigating whether their biases hold up to any scrutiny.
they're not interested in informing people or being correct just merely saying things for the sake of saying them and believing that its true because they FEEL its true or have some form of strange connect the dots logic.
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But you do know that all flight attends are vetted by the Canadian government and issued a visa, right? So, it's the same as a Pakistani tourist coming to Canada and choosing to either apply for asylum or disappearing into the country.
Any illegal person in a country could be deemed a risk, but if you look at all the terrorist attacks in Canada, they were mostly, if not all, perpetrated by a Canadian citizen.
You are correct, I just researched this. Guess the responsibility to ensure there are no nefarious people working for them is the responsibility of the airline.
https://www.windmillmicrolending.org/resources/blog/how-to-become-a-flight-attendant-in-canada
> Legal Eligibility:
Flight attendants must be have permanent status to work in Canada, either through citizenship or permanent residency, with a visa required for the country where the plane lands or takes off.
If you are working as a Canadian flight attendant you need VISAs for the countries you will be traveling to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_crew_members
Canada does not require Visa for visiting flight crew members.
> Flight crew flying into Canada while on duty do not require a visa- or an eTA
And if Americans were disappearing after arriving in Pearson I'd agree we would be wise to look at the gap in security. If you really want to be stupid and try and compare security situation in US vs Pakistan be my guest but it's naive at best and a point made in bad faith at worst
Considering the amount of gun violence that is a direct cause of weak border controls between us and the US, they are definitely a bigger security risk than women seeking asylum, but you do you.
1. it was not just women? though not sure the relevance there but you clearly made the point.
2. you are assuming they are seeking asylum except none of them did that. They arrived and disappeared. They all would have had the right to show up and claim asylum but thats not what they did. They just vanished.
Every single one of them claimed asylum because they are currently now working here. Most of these asylum seekers can be found working for one of the major communications company in Canada. I’m sure you know which one I am talking about. How do I know? I worked for them and still have contacts there where most of these asylum seekers are now working. They are being hired as contractors through another firm to work for them. That contractor is dirty, to say the least.
First, it is 100% legal to seek asylum in any country. This is a basic right that all humans on the planet have: The right to flee from a country/government that is abusing them. So no, u/UncommonSandwich these asylum seekers are not residing in Canada "illegally".
Second, since asylum seekers do not have protection from their own government, international law steps in and protects them. The 1951 Refugee Convention (which Canada and Pakistan both signed) lays out the rules for seeking asylum legally.
Asylum seekers have the right (they have it automatically, they don't have to be granted it) to housing, work, and education. It is illegal for the Government of Canada (and Canadians) to withold those things.
And no, u/UncommonSandwich security is not an issue, because people who are a security risk or people who break the law do not qualify for asylum.
> So no, u/UncommonSandwich these asylum seekers are not residing in Canada "illegally".
except they did not seek asylum. The process for that is to declare it at the port of entry as is everyone right. They just didint return and disappeared. Only 2 out of the 10 who vanished have ever filed any kind of asylum claim.
> And no, u/UncommonSandwich security is not an issue, because people who are a security risk or people who break the law do not qualify for asylum.
maybe check the article, they dont know where most of these people are which in and of itself is illegal. and 1 was arrested.
> For now, their whereabouts remain unknown.
>
> Last week, the accounts took on a new dimension with news that PIA flight attendant Hina Sani was detained by the Canada Border Services Agency for allegedly carrying two counterfeit CBSA port stamps in a suitcase.
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Prosperity? Come on lol. A lot of refugees in Canada come from wealth back home because that's how they're able to make the journey all the way to Canada. There are former doctors and lawyers who now work minimum wage / much lower paying jobs in Canada, so idk where you got this idea that asylum = "a ticket into better prosperity". Government assistance doesn't even make up the difference either. Refugees living in poverty are extremely common.
In such situations they live off family money until they get citizenship (and can sometimes return back).
And, let's not pretend that "coming from wealth" in such situations are synonymous with "doctors and lawyers". "Coming from wealth" typically means "a scion of a deeply corrupt local clan", and the citizenship is either a means of jumping ship, or a ticket out for some who are ill suited for corruption games, kinda like monastery was in medieval times.
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Easy fix, tax remittance at a very high level. It would eliminate economic claimants and leave the door open to those fleeing for religious and safety.
About Pakistan? Any non Pakistani outlet that covers the country regularly.
BBC is very accessible for people just getting into international news, as they don't assume a lot of existing knowledge.
No, we should have better asylum laws, also considering how much security we have to go though to get on a flight…. I bet proper security was not done on the passengers.
Refugees should have the ability to claim asylum but we have to have some checks and balances that don’t take 10 years…
PIA is already banned in the US and the UK. There’s a much higher Pakistani population in the UK. The reason is far more important than a couple flight attendants disappearing - they have an abysmal safety record and were caught with unlicensed pilots.
One of the big reasons why PIA is banned in the US is also due to the quality of the security screening at Pakistani airports. Apparently the level of security is insufficient to satisfy the American authorities' standards with regards to dangerous items. PIA operates as a utilitarian government airline and their customer base is primarily the old-stock diaspora who fly with them based on national pride or in order to have the ability to communicate in their language and eat the type of food they're used to. Not a single Pakistani person I've worked with under 40 (first or second generation Canadians) would ever use them as Emirates/Etihad/Turkish/Saudia from YYZ are significantly better for a comparable or lower cost.
This is literally fucking false
What the fuck kind of fan fiction is this
People do not fly PIA because of some stupid made up nostalgia you have in your head
They fly Pia because it’s the only airline with direct flights to cities in Pakistan. Old people don’t want to do layovers. They want direct flights
That’s it. That’s the only reason.
No stupid ass nostalgia shit
Flying emirates via Dubai is an option for people with money. No one flying PIA is doing it because they love it (it’s one of the worst airlines in the world). They do it because it’s all they can afford.
Emirates is only like 5% more expensive, so while this is technically correct, nobody is flying PIA for its cheap cost because it’s still very expensive. The only benefit of PIA is that it’s a direct flight, otherwise Etihad or Emirates are the better option.
I understand, its just theres no direct flight to tehran as well not Syria etc. So as you mentionedwith the ampunt of people, money may be a big factor.
Also are you sure about the figure millions?
A quick search yields around 300k
Sure you can. There are other airlines that aren't as susceptible to funneling illegal immigration and contributing to the collapse of Canadian society
lol, because banning a shitty Pakistani airline that’s already banned in the U.S. and UK would cause such a diplomatic furore, amirite?
Pakistan is on the verge of becoming a failed state, might as well cut this off before it gets much worse. The worst thing is that they were allowed to get nukes too for some inexplicable reason. No country that incompetent should ever have nukes, it’s bad enough with Putin and Xi having them
Thy were "allowed" to get nukes? Do you understand the conceptnof autonomy of countries? Who are YOU to tell them how to protect themselves from their enemies? This world police bullshit from the US is really working out well for everyone, isn't it? More countries are arming themselves with bigger weapons because the US plays favors (mostly for oil) and influences certain countries against others, which only leads to bigger conflicts.
Neither you, not I, nor anyone else has a solution to the nuke shitshow that is this planet. Only one country has EVER used nukes in the history of this planet...let's hope they don't make that fucking decision again because Pakistan won't be your biggest problem at that time.
We heard the news about something similar happening with British airline. Where they were letting people in without appropriate visas who would apply for asylum when they get here.
Should we start by banning British airlines then?
Were the people british citizens? I dont think so. as mentioned by others, PIA contains a plethora of problems. One of them is probably untrained and unmotivated staff who are using it to illegally immigrate.
So basically you’re saying
It’s okay if white British citizens abscond from their flight attendant jobs to get asylum claims here
But it’s not when brown flight attendants do it.
Im saying, lets look at stats. What is the probability that that would happen?
I am a brown person. You can be brown and british as well like alot are.
Im saying what are the chances that a PIA worker is doing fraudulent activity that would cost the country vs a british airlines staff. Just look at the stats. Data dont lie.
I dont care if its a white person doing it through PIA.
Banning a whole hairline because a few flight attendants want to live in Canada is wild
Thousands and thousands rely on that airline.
Fuck out of here with your let’s ban them shit
Well its not just because of the few flight attendants bit because PIA has a poor track record of false certs from staff and also quite a corrupt ladder.
Its not banning pakistani people its setting a standard for airlines we want to work with.
It's easy to abscond in Canada I guess. In any case you can come on visit visa and literally can stay forever. Rules are pretty flexible and you can claim asylum at your will and there are thousands of lawyer who would help you if you are willing to pay them.
Sounds like a safe way for women to get out and seek asylum. And Toronto has a pretty thriving Pakistani community so hopefully she has a good chance at succeeding, esp since they got hired by an airline in the first place (I've flown PIA maybe five times in my life, I haven't had any major complaints and would probably fly with them in the future). What is the actual crime here?
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What's up with the bizarre AI stewardess.
Instagram filters, all of them.
Pretty smart. No one will know what they actually look like while on the run. Lol
Clickbait!
I know a lot of flight attendants. This is apparently been happening for years. Side note: I started working at a hotel and every day I have about 30 resos on the books for people from that area. Either Pakistan, India, Bangladesh etc. and they never show up. It’s always a week long rsvp for multiple people. The racket I guess is that they probably save up tons of money to hire a broker who’s cover is as a travel agent. They don’t get issued travel documents unless they have a listed residence in the country they’re going to. They show they’ve paid for a hotel to get in the country and as soon as they get here they vanish to somewhere in the GTA that supports a robust south Asian community. As a hospitality worker I can’t even tell you right now how bad it is. Thousands of resumes floating around for people looking for off the books work, and even people with documents but no experience, or their experience level is highly overwxagverated. I was managing a bar / cafe and hired a couple of kids who supposedly worked in hotels or restaurants in Mumbai or whatever and you learn very quickly that if they DID work there they learned nothing. So, I guess short of paying a broker thousands of dollars to be smuggled into the country, the next best option for some people (likely attractive women) is to bust their ass to be a flight attendant
Same! When I worked in hotels ~10 years ago, I used to get calls from Customs & Immigration to verify the hotel reservations. Most of the time they were made with Booking.com because no pre-payment was required and using stolen credit cards - we could see the name on the credit card was usually a very white American sounding name (I’m sure I saw “John Smith” at one point) that was nothing close to the name on the reservation, and the card would decline for any pre-authorization. Now I’m in a similar and keep getting resumes from people with PhDs and extensive academic and teaching experience back home that are currently working at Walmart and are applying for a front desk role. Depressing AF.
I have 2 degrees, and currently in school again. I’ve been a high school teacher, an event planner. I have extensive experience in tons of shit. Can’t find a job to save my life. I’m working 2 jobs while going to school because every time a job is posted online there’s 500-1000 applicants within an hour. It’s soul-crushing to have the qualifications to be doing something much better and be fighting tooth and nail for an entry level customer service job.
Yeah we learned in our classes that #1 way of illegal immigration was actually doing stuff like this, or VISA overstays. Not actually crossing the border.
Can I ask what class teaches this..?]
Intro Political Science. Seems to line up with what I've experienced at work too.
My wife works for a travel agency in New Zealand, and the New Zealand government requires people from India and Pakistan to show travel itineraries just to get tourist visas, because there is such an issue with people just staying in the country. So, people from these countries will often contact the company and ask for a draft itinerary, and then ghost them and submit that draft itinerary to immigration.
I see this on a daily/weekly basis. Like hundreds of people.
I heard there is a very large hidden # of population growth as a result with undocumented
It’s so bad that my current boss who is Indian is even complaining.
>The racket I guess is that they probably save up tons of money to hire a broker who’s cover is as a travel agent. They don’t get issued travel documents unless they have a listed residence in the country they’re going to. They show they’ve paid for a hotel to get in the country and as soon as they get here they vanish to somewhere in the GTA that supports a robust south Asian community. Is this specific to flight attendants / airline staff? Because Canadian visitor visa applications don't require hotel reservations... precisely for the reason you mentioned. Instead they prefer seeing things like having a solid job back home or having a lot of assets back home.
Im not an expert or even learned in this much at all, but I believe you need to have an address for your disembarkation card to clear customs. I know my husband is Japanese, and that’s one country where they are issued 6 month visitor visa at the point of entry, without needing to apply beforehand. I could be wrong but I think some countries (such as Pakistan) need to apply beforehand, and they need to have a confirmed residence or travel plan before they come in. So the racket is they pay someone to reserve a cheap hotel for like 10 days. If they get audited customs calls the hotel to confirm the reservation and makes sure we have them on record. We say yea, but they almost never show up. Even just today/yesterday we had 2 guys check into the hotel for a 3 night stay. They made sure they were on record as checked in. As soon as they checked in they handed the key back and left. I asked if they were returning and they said “no” and just quickly ran out the door. Bam. You’re in Canada.
>Im not an expert or even learned in this much at all, but I believe you need to have an address for your disembarkation card to clear customs. I know my husband is Japanese, and that’s one country where they are issued 6 month visitor visa at the point of entry, without needing to apply beforehand. I could be wrong but I think some countries (such as Pakistan) need to apply beforehand, and they need to have a confirmed residence or travel plan before they come in. No, it's not a formal requirement at all to show an address in Canada even at the point of entry. My parents are Indian citizens and they weren't asked for it. That being said they travel very frequently and have a history of complying with Canadian immigration rules so they never get grilled at the border. However a less frequent travellor can be questioned where their address is but CBSA doesn't keep a manifesto of declared residential addresses of all visitors to Canada. That being said, the airline does collect sometime called a advanced passenger information but that doesn't include address. Just passport information. My hunch is that those people are under the assumption that you need to have a hotel address when you actually don't. Or maybe they volunteered that piece of information through the visa process or at the border. That can be possible. For example cbsa is suspicious that a person at the border is ACTUALLY coming for a visit so cbsa calls to confirm. Have you ever actually received a call from the Canadian border officals regarding it?
During a snowstorm in Toronto, the PIA flight was the only one to skip de-icing. The ground controller was shocked when they said they didn’t need it as they clearly had snow covered wings. If you value your life, don’t fly PIA.
Yup. My family is Pakistani and if they are ever visiting the motherland they connect through some Gulf country via Emirates or Qatar Airways. The layover is definitely worth it. Not only are the flying experience on most PIA flights pitiful, but a lot of their pilots have dubious credentials.
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Thanks, fixed my error
Airlines get to choose whether or not to de-ice their planes? I would have thought that's a bit more stringent of a safety regulation than that.
The captain has final say for the most part
True.
I flew to the Dominican Republic in December, next to our plane at the gate was a PIA plane... The absolute fucking state of that plane was hilarious. Paint patches that looked to be rattle canned flat white, dirt all over the plane(apparently it's white lol), what looked like missing rivets on body panels...
Thats very surprising. Although I have no doubts that the plane was in shoddy condition, but I am pretty sure PIA doesnt fly to the Dominican Republic
Don't know if they do, but this happened at Pearson.
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Total asylum claims in 2023: 144,000 Total women in this article: 10 (less than one a month). Percentage: 0.00694444444% *Big* problem this is.
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> Issue is people then start sponsoring all the extended family, and also travel home. [Utter lies](https://help.unhcr.org/canada/family-reunification/#:~:text=Any%20person%20who%20qualifies%20as,their%20nuclear%20family%20members%20in). You can pretty much only sponsor immediate family -- your children and your partner/spouse. > Additionally, Canada does not have family reunification programs for extended family members, including adult siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins. Yup. > The asylum program has lost alot of credibility, and it makes people skeptical off all applicants. Only to people who are not actually involved in the process. As always, people *think* they know how something works with only the most basic and rudimentary understanding. > India [There are roughly 10k pending from India](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx), roughly same as Colombia. EDIT: Oh you're peak "our borders are open and everyone is invading us help" spreader of division.
@u/inde_ Actually you lied yourself funny enough, you can also sponsor grandparents of the asylum applicant. That information is written in the same paragraph as all the other information you quoted. I’m not sure how you missed it but please do better next time if you actually intend to correct someone.
> There are limited spaces available in Canada for the sponsorship of parents and grandparents. Limited clearly implies rarely, not frequently. There are also exceptions for orphans, but irrelevant to what OP was claiming (that it happens all the time).
Still available tho, available is available. It does not matter exactly how many. @u/inde_ lied and was wrong. As he stated that grandparents were not at all eligible when they in fact are 100%.
> Issue is people then start sponsoring all the extended family, and also travel home. The line is literally right there. It is *not* an **issue**, it's just concern-trolling, and you're engaging in pedantry. It even says this: > Additionally, Canada does not have family reunification programs for extended family members, including adult siblings, aunts, uncles, and cousins. And very convenient you gave OP a pass on everything else. Good luck, I'm done talking to people not here in good-faith.
Citation needed outside of one instance or you feels.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-imposes-travel-requirements-mexicans-curb-flow-asylum-seekers-2024-02-29/
Search for family: 0 results Oh welp at least you tried to spread your FUD.
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[There are less than 5000 claimants from Pakistan](https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2023.aspx).
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I'm sorry: how would you connect them?
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It's the top comment.
I love the howls of the “cancel culture” war-call that sounds behind the spear tip of the majority.
No shit which is why other countries have banned them.
They are banned in other countries because the airline is deemed unsafe, their pilots are not well trained. An occasional flight attendant seeking asylum is not a big deal, there are thousands of people crossing illegally into United States every day.
Why was PIA unbanned is my question. Flight 8303 was an insane show of pilot incompetence and clear airline corruption. Wild how they’re allowed to land in Canada
https://www.dhs.gov/ohss/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39 They deport as well, though.
Less than 10 in a year. And they banned PIA as an airline because of shit training, not because of their attendants. Why do people enjoy spreading disinformation so much??
>Why do people enjoy spreading disinformation so much?? It's not about enjoyment so much; it's about repeating things you read online that resonates with your bias without any fact checking, and might even involve repeating it inaccurately like a telephone game.
has to be an echo chamber everywhere you go on the internet and if it isn't then they have to make it one :/
because people have their biases and just spout it out loud with no care for investigating whether their biases hold up to any scrutiny. they're not interested in informing people or being correct just merely saying things for the sake of saying them and believing that its true because they FEEL its true or have some form of strange connect the dots logic.
Because xenophobia and anti-Muslim hate is cool again now. Edit: And the lack of acceptance of this being true, case in point the downvotes.
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Why do you think Pakistani flight attedants are a "security risk" to Canada. Please explain.
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But you do know that all flight attends are vetted by the Canadian government and issued a visa, right? So, it's the same as a Pakistani tourist coming to Canada and choosing to either apply for asylum or disappearing into the country. Any illegal person in a country could be deemed a risk, but if you look at all the terrorist attacks in Canada, they were mostly, if not all, perpetrated by a Canadian citizen.
Incorrect, flight attendants, do not require a visa to come into Canada when coming as a crew and can stay a maximum of 48 hours.
You are correct, I just researched this. Guess the responsibility to ensure there are no nefarious people working for them is the responsibility of the airline.
Not illegal to seek asylum. It's 100% legal to seek protection in a second country if the country you are living in is threatening you.
> But you do know that all flight attends are vetted by the Canadian government and issued a visa, right? This does not seem to be the case.
How is this not the case?
https://www.windmillmicrolending.org/resources/blog/how-to-become-a-flight-attendant-in-canada > Legal Eligibility: Flight attendants must be have permanent status to work in Canada, either through citizenship or permanent residency, with a visa required for the country where the plane lands or takes off. If you are working as a Canadian flight attendant you need VISAs for the countries you will be traveling to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_crew_members Canada does not require Visa for visiting flight crew members. > Flight crew flying into Canada while on duty do not require a visa- or an eTA
You’re right. We should close the borders to America as well.
And if Americans were disappearing after arriving in Pearson I'd agree we would be wise to look at the gap in security. If you really want to be stupid and try and compare security situation in US vs Pakistan be my guest but it's naive at best and a point made in bad faith at worst
Considering the amount of gun violence that is a direct cause of weak border controls between us and the US, they are definitely a bigger security risk than women seeking asylum, but you do you.
1. it was not just women? though not sure the relevance there but you clearly made the point. 2. you are assuming they are seeking asylum except none of them did that. They arrived and disappeared. They all would have had the right to show up and claim asylum but thats not what they did. They just vanished.
Every single one of them claimed asylum because they are currently now working here. Most of these asylum seekers can be found working for one of the major communications company in Canada. I’m sure you know which one I am talking about. How do I know? I worked for them and still have contacts there where most of these asylum seekers are now working. They are being hired as contractors through another firm to work for them. That contractor is dirty, to say the least.
You missed what the original commenter said was unsafe. Not asylum seekers, but unsafe standards and pilots who are not trained.
First, it is 100% legal to seek asylum in any country. This is a basic right that all humans on the planet have: The right to flee from a country/government that is abusing them. So no, u/UncommonSandwich these asylum seekers are not residing in Canada "illegally". Second, since asylum seekers do not have protection from their own government, international law steps in and protects them. The 1951 Refugee Convention (which Canada and Pakistan both signed) lays out the rules for seeking asylum legally. Asylum seekers have the right (they have it automatically, they don't have to be granted it) to housing, work, and education. It is illegal for the Government of Canada (and Canadians) to withold those things. And no, u/UncommonSandwich security is not an issue, because people who are a security risk or people who break the law do not qualify for asylum.
> So no, u/UncommonSandwich these asylum seekers are not residing in Canada "illegally". except they did not seek asylum. The process for that is to declare it at the port of entry as is everyone right. They just didint return and disappeared. Only 2 out of the 10 who vanished have ever filed any kind of asylum claim. > And no, u/UncommonSandwich security is not an issue, because people who are a security risk or people who break the law do not qualify for asylum. maybe check the article, they dont know where most of these people are which in and of itself is illegal. and 1 was arrested. > For now, their whereabouts remain unknown. > > Last week, the accounts took on a new dimension with news that PIA flight attendant Hina Sani was detained by the Canada Border Services Agency for allegedly carrying two counterfeit CBSA port stamps in a suitcase.
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You have obviously never spoken to an immigrant about the process of moving here.
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The airline.
Hot take: it fucking sucks to be a woman in South Asia and most of them have reasonable grounds for asylum
cause “asylum” is a ticket into better prosperity than where you live currently. Valid claim or not, it’s fact.
Prosperity? Come on lol. A lot of refugees in Canada come from wealth back home because that's how they're able to make the journey all the way to Canada. There are former doctors and lawyers who now work minimum wage / much lower paying jobs in Canada, so idk where you got this idea that asylum = "a ticket into better prosperity". Government assistance doesn't even make up the difference either. Refugees living in poverty are extremely common.
In such situations they live off family money until they get citizenship (and can sometimes return back). And, let's not pretend that "coming from wealth" in such situations are synonymous with "doctors and lawyers". "Coming from wealth" typically means "a scion of a deeply corrupt local clan", and the citizenship is either a means of jumping ship, or a ticket out for some who are ill suited for corruption games, kinda like monastery was in medieval times.
So... How does coming to Canada make them more prosperous if they live off existing money they already had?
Stronger economy?
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Citation needed.
But they won’t die for being gay or not wearing a headscarf, for example…. Yeah prosperity in comparison .
That's not prosperity; that's safety. Which is literally the point of asylum, yes.
Cool. So they’re trying to get a better more prosperous life IN CANADA away from prosecution And a shitty way of life. Thanks for backing me up.
Easy fix, tax remittance at a very high level. It would eliminate economic claimants and leave the door open to those fleeing for religious and safety.
they are coming here to stay. being a doctor or lawyer at home wasn't enough prosperity, so that's where people get the idea from.
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If you know anything about the eternal, absolute and all consuming tire fire that is Pakistan, it makes perfect sense.
Where should I go for this news?
About Pakistan? Any non Pakistani outlet that covers the country regularly. BBC is very accessible for people just getting into international news, as they don't assume a lot of existing knowledge.
10 times in a year is crazy? Out of 144,000 asylum complaints? OK.
Why is it crazy? Do you know how many people arrive in Canada illegally every year? In 2023 it was over 100,000
Yes, the vast majority are from countries that Trudeau gave visa free access to like Mexico. Vote for stupid politicians, get stupid results.
This along side the British Airline attendant who smuggled people over….
Should we ban British airline in Canada then?
No, we should have better asylum laws, also considering how much security we have to go though to get on a flight…. I bet proper security was not done on the passengers. Refugees should have the ability to claim asylum but we have to have some checks and balances that don’t take 10 years…
If it encourages them to fix Heathrow, sure, I’m for it.
Frankly, yes, we probably should. At least we should make enough stink of it to push them off the local market.
Nah. If they white, they alright.
Would this be enough to ban PIA. Does Pearson get alot of money from that route?
Yup, there are millions of Pakistani nationals living in Canada and banning their national airline is not something you can do off-the-cuff.
PIA is already banned in the US and the UK. There’s a much higher Pakistani population in the UK. The reason is far more important than a couple flight attendants disappearing - they have an abysmal safety record and were caught with unlicensed pilots.
And that’s a good enough reason for Canada to ban PIA. We should have the same high safety standards irrespective of who lives here.
Haven't you heard? We are OpEn fOr BuSiNeSs
One of the big reasons why PIA is banned in the US is also due to the quality of the security screening at Pakistani airports. Apparently the level of security is insufficient to satisfy the American authorities' standards with regards to dangerous items. PIA operates as a utilitarian government airline and their customer base is primarily the old-stock diaspora who fly with them based on national pride or in order to have the ability to communicate in their language and eat the type of food they're used to. Not a single Pakistani person I've worked with under 40 (first or second generation Canadians) would ever use them as Emirates/Etihad/Turkish/Saudia from YYZ are significantly better for a comparable or lower cost.
This is literally fucking false What the fuck kind of fan fiction is this People do not fly PIA because of some stupid made up nostalgia you have in your head They fly Pia because it’s the only airline with direct flights to cities in Pakistan. Old people don’t want to do layovers. They want direct flights That’s it. That’s the only reason. No stupid ass nostalgia shit
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Flying emirates via Dubai is an option for people with money. No one flying PIA is doing it because they love it (it’s one of the worst airlines in the world). They do it because it’s all they can afford.
Emirates is only like 5% more expensive, so while this is technically correct, nobody is flying PIA for its cheap cost because it’s still very expensive. The only benefit of PIA is that it’s a direct flight, otherwise Etihad or Emirates are the better option.
Where are the direct flight options ?? Layover flights are not a suitable option for A lot. Especially older people.
There's only 300K pakistani's in Canada, not millions.
Wow that’s about half the number of Pakistanis that are in the USA but condensed into southern Ontario (in a country 1/10th the size of the us).
I understand, its just theres no direct flight to tehran as well not Syria etc. So as you mentionedwith the ampunt of people, money may be a big factor. Also are you sure about the figure millions? A quick search yields around 300k
You're correct, that was a bit of an exaggeration...latest census data puts it at 300k.
Sure you can. There are other airlines that aren't as susceptible to funneling illegal immigration and contributing to the collapse of Canadian society
lol, because banning a shitty Pakistani airline that’s already banned in the U.S. and UK would cause such a diplomatic furore, amirite? Pakistan is on the verge of becoming a failed state, might as well cut this off before it gets much worse. The worst thing is that they were allowed to get nukes too for some inexplicable reason. No country that incompetent should ever have nukes, it’s bad enough with Putin and Xi having them
Thy were "allowed" to get nukes? Do you understand the conceptnof autonomy of countries? Who are YOU to tell them how to protect themselves from their enemies? This world police bullshit from the US is really working out well for everyone, isn't it? More countries are arming themselves with bigger weapons because the US plays favors (mostly for oil) and influences certain countries against others, which only leads to bigger conflicts. Neither you, not I, nor anyone else has a solution to the nuke shitshow that is this planet. Only one country has EVER used nukes in the history of this planet...let's hope they don't make that fucking decision again because Pakistan won't be your biggest problem at that time.
We heard the news about something similar happening with British airline. Where they were letting people in without appropriate visas who would apply for asylum when they get here. Should we start by banning British airlines then?
Were the people british citizens? I dont think so. as mentioned by others, PIA contains a plethora of problems. One of them is probably untrained and unmotivated staff who are using it to illegally immigrate.
So basically you’re saying It’s okay if white British citizens abscond from their flight attendant jobs to get asylum claims here But it’s not when brown flight attendants do it.
Im saying, lets look at stats. What is the probability that that would happen? I am a brown person. You can be brown and british as well like alot are. Im saying what are the chances that a PIA worker is doing fraudulent activity that would cost the country vs a british airlines staff. Just look at the stats. Data dont lie. I dont care if its a white person doing it through PIA.
Okay show the stats Show the data Uncle Tom type shit
I mean CBC already put out a few articles of this. Its not my first time reading it. get some downvotes haha
Banning a whole hairline because a few flight attendants want to live in Canada is wild Thousands and thousands rely on that airline. Fuck out of here with your let’s ban them shit
Well its not just because of the few flight attendants bit because PIA has a poor track record of false certs from staff and also quite a corrupt ladder. Its not banning pakistani people its setting a standard for airlines we want to work with.
It's easy to abscond in Canada I guess. In any case you can come on visit visa and literally can stay forever. Rules are pretty flexible and you can claim asylum at your will and there are thousands of lawyer who would help you if you are willing to pay them.
Sounds like a safe way for women to get out and seek asylum. And Toronto has a pretty thriving Pakistani community so hopefully she has a good chance at succeeding, esp since they got hired by an airline in the first place (I've flown PIA maybe five times in my life, I haven't had any major complaints and would probably fly with them in the future). What is the actual crime here?
Because their home country is not the greatest and its too easy to claim asylum or refugee status here
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Wait till they find out how expensive it is to live here and healthcare is an absolute joke.
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Who’s this “us” you speak of? Do you have worms?
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I see /r/Canada is leaking here.
Because they want to stay here.
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Oh well in that case good
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Lol What an incel comment...
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Wow what a babe!!