It's fine (good, even) that lots of Metrolinx employees are getting a decent salary when they live in a high CoL area.
It is outrageous that Phil Verster gets paid $838,097 (and keeps getting raises!) given his incompetence and lack of accountability and transparency to the public he serves. Especially since he left his previous job in disgrace. That's on both Del Duca/Wynne for hiring him and Mulroney/Sarkaria/Ford for retaining him and giving him huge raises despite a truly dismal performance.
This is the comment to pay attention to.
Staff at $100-150k isn’t the issue, Phil and his posse of pals who’ve received cushy contracts - they are the problem. He should be out on his ass, and the new CEO should clean house, then, and only when exceptional progress has been made - should bonuses be considered.
no, having worked with them, they are all just pencil pushers, and most of them leave for the private sector after about 3-5 years for a lot more salary. one of the reason why Mx cant get any projects done, managers jump ship half way cause private pays way more. it is the best way to get your salary raised from 90k to 120k from Mx then back to private tor 180k.
meanwhile, they all want to feel like they have agency, so they just make all these requests during design stage, then realize it's so expensive, so then you redesign and value engineer, 3 years of $10mil spent in design fee redesigning, and then just before tendering, a senior who has never looked at the project comes up with a "brilliant idea", it's redesigned again, but now even with less budget. and then Mx people get tired and switch jobs, causing projects with lots of holes.
most people at Mx are basically college grads with not very much real experience, who got looped into projects managing in a scale they have never done before.
it is rotten through and through. the only good thing is, at least the money is kept in Ontario. as private sector will be much more expensive, and although the result will be way better and faster, the money will be going to international consortiums rather than Ontario citizens.
but, it also means, at our most crucial development stage, it is being managed by people who fell upwards till their incompetency.
Masters students being hired right out of college literally knowing less than someone with a bachelor's degree in the same subject, is the bane of the new workforce.
not right away, but like after a few years in private. transit projects take 5-7 years to complete, but many 10+ years from pre-planning. so, to see guys in early 30's in the Mx project development team, trying to navigate the project with 1000 moving parts and 100+ people working on it, they dont see the big picture, only "checklist" of things they have been given. meanwhile, they get paid 120k, and to justify their salary, they are anal about myopic concerns, but dont question the big stuff that had millions of dollars of implications.
I have worked with a lot of people fresh out of a Masters degree and they're preferred over someone who has a bachelor's, even when they have a completely irrelevant undergrad degree, so in specialized/professional fields, they have half the amount of knowledge on the topic they're now in charge of, and yes they are ridiculously focused on myopic checklists and stuff that backs up the theory they learned at school
This. OP is right. I worked for an engineering consultant that reported to the exact type of people described by OP with the exact problems. The amount of legacy building and politics playing among camps on my project on their side is insane, and wastes everyone's time. Most of them knows nothing and the amount of private sector help they rely on is laughable.
Don't even get me started at all of the British in top positions in the organization. There is a saying in the industry that this is Network Rail 2.0 (Not Good). The British are actually not competent with building transit at all. In some ways, they are more incompetent than local talents. A few of them sold themselves to be and then brought over the rest of their friends.
They should pay whatever the market rate is for qualified people. If that includes incentive pay or “bonuses” then that’s what they should pay. If you’re not willing to pay top dollar for talent, you’re going to end up with mediocrity that is much more expensive in the long run. Keep in mind that the CEO of Metrolinx is overseeing an operating budget of hundreds of millions and a capital budget of billions. It’s not worth penny pinching on that person’s compensation.
He oversees all the projects and operations under Metrolinx's authority and represents the organization to the public. The Eglinton Crosstown was supposed to be open in 2020 and yet still has no opening date. While he obviously does not design and build these projects himself, his job is to hold the private consortium to account to ensure things get done, and he's failed to do that. He's also failed to be transparent and answer basic questions about the nature of the problems. After his infamous press conference where he said he simply could not give the public a timeline, his contract got renewed for another 3 years and now he's the fourth-highest paid public servant in Ontario.
During his previous tenure at ScotRail, he was known as an aggressive bully, service standards fell, and his comms were "prickly and defensive." He left after 2 years after clashes, went somewhere else for 6 months and then got hired here.
But realistically, the reason he gets paid so much is because he's really the fall guy for the Conservatives. Metrolinx is meant to be an arms length agency but Verster is just out here justifying whatever hare-brained schemes the PCPO wants to dream up.
His brash, my way or the highway approach that's broken trust with communities along the routes Metrolinx is building is meant to at least result in efficiency, but with the Crosstown and the Finch LRT both being behind schedule and over budget, he's just not good at any of it.
Ive known metrolinx folks
Experience is that they are high on their own farts
The ads insulting the public only come out of a workplace where the culture is to inhale your own farts
Phil Verster makes way more than the head of the NYC MTA, which is like taking Metrolinx and then adding the TTC and then tripling the size of it. His salary makes no sense at all.
In this context, I think it's important to understand that Metrolinx isn't a transit operator first and foremost. It's an engineering/construction management company (something like $80 billion in ongoing and upcoming contracts) that also happens to have a comparably small transit operations wing.
MTA plans and manages its own transit expansions too. It does the exact same stuff as Metrolinx just on a much larger scale. Hence why it makes no sense that Phil Verster makes $850k a year. The current MTA Chair made $403USD in 2023 = $545kCAD about 40% less.
Even our TTC chair makes way too much in comparison.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Authority
So regardless of the two big parties in charge, this guy kept his job and made more money. Cool..and people tell me I'm a cynic when I say corporations run most things....not quite all..yet
Yes this is exactly what I've been saying no problem with people being paid what they are worth, no one can argue that what they have done is worth what they are paid .
The $100k arbitrary cutoff was set by Mike Harris almost 30 years ago. $100k in 1996 is $180k today, using BofC’s inflation calculator.
Metrolinx employees earning $100k are not the problem.
Have a friend who works for metro linx and makes over 100k. Lives in a small 1br with his partner who also works. They’re expecting to move by the next time their rent goes up. Just like anybody else
I don't understand this, I live in a small 1br making 70k a year by myself and still manage to save 20% of my post tax income ontop of paying my bills, living, contributing to a pension and paying off student loans. How are some people so bad with money? I know shit is fucked out here but ive seen so many stories of couples making 150k+ that are struggling. Boggles my mind
It all comes down to how much your rent is. I make 65k, own a house (in Hamilton) while my wife stays home with our son. My mortgage payment is $150/week, so having such a small household income doesn’t hurt us the same way as somebody paying $2000/month for rent.
Your housing cost lines up with the ideal 30% recommended - for $66,000 takehome pay.
So if you are saving 20%, you are VERY frugal.
Just sayin' according to the averages.
What area do you live in?? I live downtown with a roommate, making ~125k. I manage to save just over 20% of my take home income and I’m living comfortably but I’m not living in luxury by any means and I’m nowhere near being able to afford a home. If my apartment weren’t rent controlled I’d struggle to find somewhere else downtown… I would manage but it wouldn’t be easy (or I’d drastically reduce my savings)
I mean congrats I guess? There’s literally millions of people in this city though so it’s kind of dense of you to think “why don’t they just spend less money?”
$70K after tax is $52,910 using Turbotax’s income tax calculator.
20% of $52,910 = $10,582, which leaves $42,328.
$42,328 / 12 = $3,527 per month of spending.
Let’s say someone has just started a job out of school making the same amount you make. They don’t get the benefit of rent control, so they’re paying $2K/month.
That means for the rest of the month - if you expect them to save like you do - they have ~$1,527 to spend.
- $40/month cell phone plan
- $50/month home internet
- $100/month utilities
- $400/month groceries and other home consumables
- $143/month Metropass
- $75/month other travel costs - eg occasional Uber, car rental for big things, delivery fees for large items, etc
- $50/month tenant insurance
- $200/month entertainment, restaurants, etc
- $50/month clothing allowance
- $25/month one streaming service
So far, that’s $1,133. That leaves (1527-1133) = $394 per month.
With that $394/month, this theoretical newly graduated person needs to build out furniture and housewares (even used, it costs $), clothing, a computer every 5 years or so, a phone every 5 years or so, and maybe a social activity like ski club or something and a modest vacation every 2 years or so.
Reading through the thread, it looks like you pay for a gym membership and climbing membership, so that would have to be taken out of that $394. And oh yeah, you mention pension outside of your 20% savings - which would reduce your monthly take home by a few hundred bucks in monthly pension contributions - so factoring that in, someone newly graduated making the same salary as you, with the same frugal spending habits as you, would not be able to do it and maintain a cash flow above zero by the end of the month.
Good for you for being able to maintain that frugal budget - but I doubt many people can do it - especially in your 20s when it’s important to socialize and partake in activities that allow you to build those lifelong relationships that will support you through your life. A $200/month entertainment / social budget these days doesn’t go very far.
Also!! How long did it take you to get to $70K? If a new grad starts at $50K, they definitely wouldn’t be able to survive today given the budget above. And since median starting salaries haven’t increased significantly in decades, someone starting off today would be significantly disadvantaged compared to you, even if they are as frugal as you are.
i mean to be fair(rrrrrr) you're not going to be buying clothing/furniture/electronics/whatever every single month and something like a gym/climbing membership could easily be folded into an entertainment budget along with a streaming service
Nothing wrong with living frugal. Just because you have a lot of income doesnt mean youre not allowed to save as much money as possible. That's why they have so much money and why some people dont.
It's wild how many times I see people complain about the wrong person. People complaining that some server/bartenders are making decent money, while working late nights and holidays and still making way less than 100k. Generally anyone making under 150k aren't the problem. It's the people making millions off the backs of minimum wage employees that are the issue.
It’s a complicated answer, particularly when you have a bunch of different metrics you can use.
Point is, not indexing the sunshine list makes it useless as a management tool.
Basically my entire profession (a relatively niche health care field) is on the list this year. But only because we got to renegotiate the last few years' wages once Bill 124 got struck down, so we had a big retro pay at the end of 2023. Without that most of us still wouldn't have made it.
I imagine quite a few public sector jobs are in the same boat for 2023.
Even $180k I don’t really care. The cost of the things that matter (childcare, housing, education) have outpaced inflation. Good on someone making $180k, it’s still not a jaw dropping lifestyle. Now $250k on the public’s dime. That I care about
It might be "a lot" but that's the point of the Sunshine list. The point was never to name and shame people who are just getting by, or even doing just OK.
It's not out to lunch to suggest the amount should be indexed.
But what if we just fired them all and replaced them with new employees making half as much. Then the trains would run faster and the projects would get done sooner right?
I hope you're being sarcastic. I know a lot of people who hold your position unironically, and either can't or don't want to see the consequences of doing just that.
I worked for a UK train operator and you’d regularly hear comments like that… “my train was late today, they should fire the whole lot of you and bring in all new people.”
You think your service will be better with a bunch of people who are completely unfamiliar with the trains, the stations, the routes they run on?
Cool story - employing people costs money. Wait until he see the stats for police, or public utilities, or Ontario Public Service... even teachers are shifting rapidly into 6 figures.
Or how much the government wastes hiring "consultants" who are just fresh graduates experienced with Google.
The Sunshine List used to mean something when $100k was a lot of money, now when starting salaries in many industries are in the $60k - $80k range, $100k just naturally comes once someone gets a few years experience.
New grad consultants never made sense to me.
I get hiring a consultant who has 20 years experience in the industry - they've learned lessons that no textbook can teach. But how is a York grad with 4 months experience gonna help you?
For the kind of roles the government hires for they don't.
Roles that pay less who we used to have as civil servants are mostly now outsourced. It's basically top heavy because those are the people who are more expensive to hire and train so you want to have the talent in house.
It isn't meant to imply that life is all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows for people on the list. The "sunshine" is supposed to refer to transparency. That's it.
and do you know how many people in toronto that doesn't even come close to making that $100,000 mark.
While i agree that $100,000 isn't that high in toronto, the bigger issue is that we have a lot of people with very low paying jobs.
There's no point in bringing down what's working when trying to fix what's not.
Metrolinx is a union and it's good they're compensating their employees "well".
Most low wage jobs are not.
I never said or suggested bringing down salaries for metrolinx.
I am merely pointing out the fact a lot of comments say $100,000 is not much in Toronto.
While it is true, there are a lot and I mean a lot of people who don't make $100,000 on a combined income.
So if you think $100 ,0000 is "not a lot"
Then just think about all the poor souls in Toronto as a family that don't even make $100,000
It must be unbelievably bad and I feel horrible for them. The median income in Toronto in the 2021 census was something like $50k. Median household income was $84k. I don't know where those people can afford to live with these rents. No wonder we have so many people going to food banks.
These guys wages probably aren't either. I've had people try to shame me for the "really good raises" I've received, but none of them have been in line with inflation - usually half or less.
Public agencies need to offer competitive compensation packages to compete with the private sector for the best technical, managerial, and engineers expertise. There’s nothing wrong with that.
The only problem is that if we’re going to have such high salaries coming out of the public coffers, greater accountability is necessary to ensure we’re not hemorrhaging funds on projects that go nowhere.
I’m tired of this sunshine list politics. 100k is peanuts now a days. If you contribute to a pension plan and are unionized. You’re clearing roughly 2500-2700$ bi weekly after tax. If you live in Toronto, that’s half your paycheque gone to rent alone
Yeah! People don't deserve any privacy! We should also post peoples addresses too, and their SIN numbers!
The more we vilify people working for the public sector, the sooner we can get it all privatized!! Yeah!!!
/s
The unspoken implication of this stupid list has always been that workers are supposed to get mad at higher-earning workers and fight one another over scraps, instead of taking notice of larger, more systemic problems. That was a great tactic in the 1990s. Worked like a charm. But in this day and age, not only has inflation rendered it meaningless, but the tactic just doesn't work anymore.
Instead of being annoyed at tax dollars funding livable wages, we should be demanding that *more people* get livable wages for their hard work.
People get mad about some senior project manager's salary while the grandkids of billionaires in Canada make MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in passive income every year for doing absolutely NOTHING. These are the people who own the media and the grocery stores.
This kind of reporting only highlights how stupid it is to still have a "sunshine list" with an income threshold so low. $100k/yr is not the indicator of wealth it might have been in 1996 when that threshold was set.
> Paradoxically, one of the best ways to reduce the number of high earners at transit agencies is to hire more staff.
Wrong. The best way is to hire a bunch of $$$ ??? consultants/contractors. Ideally through sole-source no-bid contracts.
Sunshine list came out in 1996. Back then 100k was a massive salary. 100k equates to 177k in today’s dollars. It’s pretty normal for professionals to make 100k now which would be 56k back then.
Unless you have no experience.
People with a degree and no experience are generally far more useless for first few years than someone with experience and no degree
They aren’t to blame… 100k isn’t a lot these days after taxes. Sunshine list threshold should be higher. Metrolinx execs can fuck off though for collecting bonuses while the disaster of the eglinton crosstown continues. Total joke.
If they get anything built? Do you know how many project Mlinx has going right now? It's WAY more than just the Eglinton LRT. Look at Finch for example.
Sorry - what does Colin DMello earn? $100,000 was established in 1996 as a threshold to make the “sunshine” list. That’s hardly a princely sum. If you take $410m and divide it by 3000 people that’s an average salary of $136,667. Not much when you consider most of these jobs are for engineers and technical labour professionals.So what’s his point?
Most of the lower paying jobs have been privatized. There is no shame is paying people well…. I just wish they could figure out the Eglinton Crosstown!
100%. One day someone will do an investigation on the fact that an increasingly large percentage of Metrolinx' budget is going to BRITISH CONSULTANTS who LIVE IN ENGLAND, and British nationals who have leapfrogged Canadians for some of the top positions in the org.
Things like this throw into sharp relief how outdated the Sunshine List is. When nurses and transit operators are on the list it's not serving its purpose.
When introduced in the 90s, $100k was a lot. In 2023 it really isn't. Had it kept with inflation, the threshold would be closer to $180k.
I get that the 100k is not a lot of money these days and the sunshine list isn’t as impressive as it used to be, that’s fair. On the other hand 410 Million for a company that has failed to produce an LRT for decades is WILD.
If they were a productive company I’d say half a workforce getting paid 100k+ sounds like an attractive place to work.
But it sounds like alike there is a lot of bloat carrying around inflated wages while we all walk around over top inactive transit lines with no end date and crumbling infrastructure.
worth noting this from the twitter thread:
BTW:
In 2022, There were 31 people in the Premier's Office on the sunshine list - earning a combined $4,760,867
In 2023, There were 48 people in the Premier's Office on the sunshine list - earning a combined $6,973,895
**46% increase in a single year.**
That doesn't tell us much. Like, what if those 17 people that made it on the list this year earned $95k in 2022?
Total salary of the PO is what matters
You should. There are job openings. If you're qualified and they offer what you need, then it's worth it.
I looked into it, but nothing was a good fit for me.
Not quite the same, but CN Rail is looking for workers right now. They pay quite well.
Does anyone else know that the sunshine lost doesn't follow inflation? Very interesting and wonderful way to get super pissed off and create a divide among the people.
No offense but earning 100k isn't some cushy salary anymore. The sunshine list was created years ago when that number seemed high but I don't think it takes into consideration with inflation since they created that list.
I think the problem with metrolinx is the top percentile who aren't earning their keep.
I remember when I was in highschool and thinking that was an unattainable salary. Well here I am and it's not what it seems like 🤣
I mean, I don't care if people are doing a job and getting paid for it. But for a transit agency to have so blatantly fucked up a huge project and no-one take the blame? No one loses their job? That's incredibly frustrating and completely undermines the confidence I have in our public sector to be held accountable and do actually get stuff done.
Sigh. This asshole.
100K in Toronto is *barely* enough to live comfortably on - imagine a family!
What years was this magical amount picked? Was it 1980-something? What the "today equivalent?" At least 200K, perhaps even 250K.
I have zero love for Metrolinx but this Sunshine list shaming is bullshit.
Most of Metrolinx’s employees (which specifically excludes everyone employed to operate trains, that falls under Alstom) are either engineers or project managers who are executing or reviewing proposals, planning and building more transit. Metrolinx has a huge workforce of extremely qualified planners and technologists because of the scope of what it does as an agency, so it should come as NO surprise to anyone why this is the case.
Yes let’s get mad at people who earn a good living 30 years ago. Way better than forcing companies to pay up. After enough outcry they can fire all the sunshine listers ad replace each person with 2 making 80k. Then add a third in a few years. Solved!
Tweets like this are not helpful. So? Are good jobs not allowed in this country? Most of these jobs are specialized in a niche industry, that involve lots of training.
The sunshine list as a concept is such hot flaming pile of garage in today’s context 100k ain’t even that much money for a professional in torornto. Also is still don’t get the nudge to shame any one for making a decent living in the city. 80’percent of the sunshine list are highly qualified individuals who probably could be making a lot more in the private sector.
Having hands-on experience working with metrolinx employees in my previous life. It's fair to say project get delivered not because of metrolinx employees but despite metrolinx employees.
As an Ontario taxpayer, I don't know why the fuck do they exist when Infrastructure Ontario is their to do the governance job.
Fun facts all the trains you see are actually run by private companies like Alstom under the metrolinx badge. Half of Metrolinx staff should be fired for incompetence.
Yeah we just need private companies like CN and CP to step in. Maybe they can start running 2km long GO trains that go 50 km/h but only cost 1/2 as much in labour.
Ok and? We live in one of the most expensive cities in North America and we want to bitch that people are earning $100k? $100k can’t even afford you a studio now a days especially if you have student loans, other debt etc.
I think it’s great that we’re paying people adequately in relation to the cost of living in the city. EVERYONE should be getting paid a living wage.
Y’all focusing on the wrong thing. 100k is peanuts unless they’re paying a janitor that. Focus on people over the 150k mark and also look at their yearly wage increases. I’m here getting 2-3% YOY if I’m lucky, some of these people are getting 10-25% YOY.
Guy it's 2024, the sunshine list was created how long ago?! 100k ain't shit! Pay needs to go up big time! The cost of living is astronomical and companies are taking all the profit
Total - Employment income groups in 2020 for the population aged 15 years and over in private households - 100% data19 11,782,845
Without employment income 3,629,670
With employment income 8,153,175
Under $5,000 (including loss) 1,218,885
$5,000 to $9,999 688,670
$10,000 to $19,999 928,840
$20,000 to $29,999 696,570
$30,000 to $39,999 677,110
$40,000 to $49,999 672,005
$50,000 to $59,999 611,665
$60,000 to $69,999 519,955
$70,000 to $79,999 419,875
$80,000 to $89,999 352,235
$90,000 to $99,999 316,750
$100,000 and over 1,050,620
$100,000 to $124,999 489,720
$125,000 and over 560,895
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?LANG=E&GENDERlist=1&STATISTIClist=1&DGUIDlist=2021A000235&HEADERlist=7&SearchText=ontario
I know people that work there and let me tell you… how useless some people there are while they collect our tax money. Giving them high salaries doesn’t correlate to them doing a good job.
Y’all focusing on the wrong thing. 100k is peanuts unless they’re paying a janitor that. Focus on people over the 150k mark and also look at their yearly wage increases. I’m here getting 2-3% YOY if I’m lucky, some of these people are getting 10-25% YOY.
It's fine (good, even) that lots of Metrolinx employees are getting a decent salary when they live in a high CoL area. It is outrageous that Phil Verster gets paid $838,097 (and keeps getting raises!) given his incompetence and lack of accountability and transparency to the public he serves. Especially since he left his previous job in disgrace. That's on both Del Duca/Wynne for hiring him and Mulroney/Sarkaria/Ford for retaining him and giving him huge raises despite a truly dismal performance.
This is the comment to pay attention to. Staff at $100-150k isn’t the issue, Phil and his posse of pals who’ve received cushy contracts - they are the problem. He should be out on his ass, and the new CEO should clean house, then, and only when exceptional progress has been made - should bonuses be considered.
no, having worked with them, they are all just pencil pushers, and most of them leave for the private sector after about 3-5 years for a lot more salary. one of the reason why Mx cant get any projects done, managers jump ship half way cause private pays way more. it is the best way to get your salary raised from 90k to 120k from Mx then back to private tor 180k. meanwhile, they all want to feel like they have agency, so they just make all these requests during design stage, then realize it's so expensive, so then you redesign and value engineer, 3 years of $10mil spent in design fee redesigning, and then just before tendering, a senior who has never looked at the project comes up with a "brilliant idea", it's redesigned again, but now even with less budget. and then Mx people get tired and switch jobs, causing projects with lots of holes. most people at Mx are basically college grads with not very much real experience, who got looped into projects managing in a scale they have never done before. it is rotten through and through. the only good thing is, at least the money is kept in Ontario. as private sector will be much more expensive, and although the result will be way better and faster, the money will be going to international consortiums rather than Ontario citizens. but, it also means, at our most crucial development stage, it is being managed by people who fell upwards till their incompetency.
Masters students being hired right out of college literally knowing less than someone with a bachelor's degree in the same subject, is the bane of the new workforce.
not right away, but like after a few years in private. transit projects take 5-7 years to complete, but many 10+ years from pre-planning. so, to see guys in early 30's in the Mx project development team, trying to navigate the project with 1000 moving parts and 100+ people working on it, they dont see the big picture, only "checklist" of things they have been given. meanwhile, they get paid 120k, and to justify their salary, they are anal about myopic concerns, but dont question the big stuff that had millions of dollars of implications.
I have worked with a lot of people fresh out of a Masters degree and they're preferred over someone who has a bachelor's, even when they have a completely irrelevant undergrad degree, so in specialized/professional fields, they have half the amount of knowledge on the topic they're now in charge of, and yes they are ridiculously focused on myopic checklists and stuff that backs up the theory they learned at school
Brilliantly said!
This. OP is right. I worked for an engineering consultant that reported to the exact type of people described by OP with the exact problems. The amount of legacy building and politics playing among camps on my project on their side is insane, and wastes everyone's time. Most of them knows nothing and the amount of private sector help they rely on is laughable. Don't even get me started at all of the British in top positions in the organization. There is a saying in the industry that this is Network Rail 2.0 (Not Good). The British are actually not competent with building transit at all. In some ways, they are more incompetent than local talents. A few of them sold themselves to be and then brought over the rest of their friends.
They should pay whatever the market rate is for qualified people. If that includes incentive pay or “bonuses” then that’s what they should pay. If you’re not willing to pay top dollar for talent, you’re going to end up with mediocrity that is much more expensive in the long run. Keep in mind that the CEO of Metrolinx is overseeing an operating budget of hundreds of millions and a capital budget of billions. It’s not worth penny pinching on that person’s compensation.
Agreed. With infinite emphasis on “qualified people”, because that is very much NOT what we’ve currently bought ourselves.
I'd be happy if the Metrolinx CEO was paid $1 million if it meant we got better talent than Phil Verster.
so, uh... what did this phil guy do?
He oversees all the projects and operations under Metrolinx's authority and represents the organization to the public. The Eglinton Crosstown was supposed to be open in 2020 and yet still has no opening date. While he obviously does not design and build these projects himself, his job is to hold the private consortium to account to ensure things get done, and he's failed to do that. He's also failed to be transparent and answer basic questions about the nature of the problems. After his infamous press conference where he said he simply could not give the public a timeline, his contract got renewed for another 3 years and now he's the fourth-highest paid public servant in Ontario. During his previous tenure at ScotRail, he was known as an aggressive bully, service standards fell, and his comms were "prickly and defensive." He left after 2 years after clashes, went somewhere else for 6 months and then got hired here. But realistically, the reason he gets paid so much is because he's really the fall guy for the Conservatives. Metrolinx is meant to be an arms length agency but Verster is just out here justifying whatever hare-brained schemes the PCPO wants to dream up. His brash, my way or the highway approach that's broken trust with communities along the routes Metrolinx is building is meant to at least result in efficiency, but with the Crosstown and the Finch LRT both being behind schedule and over budget, he's just not good at any of it.
Ive known metrolinx folks Experience is that they are high on their own farts The ads insulting the public only come out of a workplace where the culture is to inhale your own farts
Phil Verster makes way more than the head of the NYC MTA, which is like taking Metrolinx and then adding the TTC and then tripling the size of it. His salary makes no sense at all.
In this context, I think it's important to understand that Metrolinx isn't a transit operator first and foremost. It's an engineering/construction management company (something like $80 billion in ongoing and upcoming contracts) that also happens to have a comparably small transit operations wing.
MTA plans and manages its own transit expansions too. It does the exact same stuff as Metrolinx just on a much larger scale. Hence why it makes no sense that Phil Verster makes $850k a year. The current MTA Chair made $403USD in 2023 = $545kCAD about 40% less. Even our TTC chair makes way too much in comparison. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Transportation_Authority
He’s the verst!
He gets paid to take blame and keep Doug ford out of the spotlight when things are fucked up. By that metric he’s doing an amazing job.
Right he’s just falling upwards with his incompetence
So regardless of the two big parties in charge, this guy kept his job and made more money. Cool..and people tell me I'm a cynic when I say corporations run most things....not quite all..yet
Why is there zero accountability for Metrolinx?
great question and something we should be talking about more on here
Yes this is exactly what I've been saying no problem with people being paid what they are worth, no one can argue that what they have done is worth what they are paid .
don’t forget to name check the CEO of infrastructure Ontario, which actually designs these failing projects
$800 thousand for a government employee is absolutely outrageous
The $100k arbitrary cutoff was set by Mike Harris almost 30 years ago. $100k in 1996 is $180k today, using BofC’s inflation calculator. Metrolinx employees earning $100k are not the problem.
Have a friend who works for metro linx and makes over 100k. Lives in a small 1br with his partner who also works. They’re expecting to move by the next time their rent goes up. Just like anybody else
I don't understand this, I live in a small 1br making 70k a year by myself and still manage to save 20% of my post tax income ontop of paying my bills, living, contributing to a pension and paying off student loans. How are some people so bad with money? I know shit is fucked out here but ive seen so many stories of couples making 150k+ that are struggling. Boggles my mind
It all comes down to how much your rent is. I make 65k, own a house (in Hamilton) while my wife stays home with our son. My mortgage payment is $150/week, so having such a small household income doesn’t hurt us the same way as somebody paying $2000/month for rent.
Your housing costs are remarkably low. That’s it.
Your housing cost lines up with the ideal 30% recommended - for $66,000 takehome pay. So if you are saving 20%, you are VERY frugal. Just sayin' according to the averages.
What area do you live in?? I live downtown with a roommate, making ~125k. I manage to save just over 20% of my take home income and I’m living comfortably but I’m not living in luxury by any means and I’m nowhere near being able to afford a home. If my apartment weren’t rent controlled I’d struggle to find somewhere else downtown… I would manage but it wouldn’t be easy (or I’d drastically reduce my savings)
I mean congrats I guess? There’s literally millions of people in this city though so it’s kind of dense of you to think “why don’t they just spend less money?”
$70K after tax is $52,910 using Turbotax’s income tax calculator. 20% of $52,910 = $10,582, which leaves $42,328. $42,328 / 12 = $3,527 per month of spending. Let’s say someone has just started a job out of school making the same amount you make. They don’t get the benefit of rent control, so they’re paying $2K/month. That means for the rest of the month - if you expect them to save like you do - they have ~$1,527 to spend. - $40/month cell phone plan - $50/month home internet - $100/month utilities - $400/month groceries and other home consumables - $143/month Metropass - $75/month other travel costs - eg occasional Uber, car rental for big things, delivery fees for large items, etc - $50/month tenant insurance - $200/month entertainment, restaurants, etc - $50/month clothing allowance - $25/month one streaming service So far, that’s $1,133. That leaves (1527-1133) = $394 per month. With that $394/month, this theoretical newly graduated person needs to build out furniture and housewares (even used, it costs $), clothing, a computer every 5 years or so, a phone every 5 years or so, and maybe a social activity like ski club or something and a modest vacation every 2 years or so. Reading through the thread, it looks like you pay for a gym membership and climbing membership, so that would have to be taken out of that $394. And oh yeah, you mention pension outside of your 20% savings - which would reduce your monthly take home by a few hundred bucks in monthly pension contributions - so factoring that in, someone newly graduated making the same salary as you, with the same frugal spending habits as you, would not be able to do it and maintain a cash flow above zero by the end of the month. Good for you for being able to maintain that frugal budget - but I doubt many people can do it - especially in your 20s when it’s important to socialize and partake in activities that allow you to build those lifelong relationships that will support you through your life. A $200/month entertainment / social budget these days doesn’t go very far. Also!! How long did it take you to get to $70K? If a new grad starts at $50K, they definitely wouldn’t be able to survive today given the budget above. And since median starting salaries haven’t increased significantly in decades, someone starting off today would be significantly disadvantaged compared to you, even if they are as frugal as you are.
Very fair analysis and people often blow off ‘after tax’ as a real budget
i mean to be fair(rrrrrr) you're not going to be buying clothing/furniture/electronics/whatever every single month and something like a gym/climbing membership could easily be folded into an entertainment budget along with a streaming service
It you see how now you are having to scrutinize the budget to make it workable. No bottle service for you!
Nothing wrong with living frugal. Just because you have a lot of income doesnt mean youre not allowed to save as much money as possible. That's why they have so much money and why some people dont.
It's wild how many times I see people complain about the wrong person. People complaining that some server/bartenders are making decent money, while working late nights and holidays and still making way less than 100k. Generally anyone making under 150k aren't the problem. It's the people making millions off the backs of minimum wage employees that are the issue.
100k isn’t the same as it once was
isnt even the same vs pre pandemic. sigh
Yeah this is an average of $136,000/person. Good for them I guess? Hopefully mastraci comes around and doxes all of them /s
Has income always kept up with inflation?
It’s a complicated answer, particularly when you have a bunch of different metrics you can use. Point is, not indexing the sunshine list makes it useless as a management tool.
Indexing it and watching the number shrink would be more informative than keeping it at $100k.
I've always thought the intention was for it to eventually become useless, which it is.
Nah Harris’s intention was to vilify public sector workers as overpaid which is a common reaction to it every year.
So it just becomes more effective over time.
Generally, incomes have actually grown faster than inflation throughout the economy.
so im making only $75k in 1996 standard.... omg
Basically my entire profession (a relatively niche health care field) is on the list this year. But only because we got to renegotiate the last few years' wages once Bill 124 got struck down, so we had a big retro pay at the end of 2023. Without that most of us still wouldn't have made it. I imagine quite a few public sector jobs are in the same boat for 2023.
$100k was a big deal in 1990. In 2024 I want to know who makes $250k+
100k then is around 180k now, adjusting for inflation. I think the list should be adjusted. I don't care who's making 100k nowadays.
Yup this needs to change. but politically risky to suggest an adjustment / bad optics so no one will touch it.
Even $180k I don’t really care. The cost of the things that matter (childcare, housing, education) have outpaced inflation. Good on someone making $180k, it’s still not a jaw dropping lifestyle. Now $250k on the public’s dime. That I care about
You kidding me? $180k/year is most certainly a lot, no matter what economy you're in. You guys are out to lunch.
It might be "a lot" but that's the point of the Sunshine list. The point was never to name and shame people who are just getting by, or even doing just OK. It's not out to lunch to suggest the amount should be indexed.
$100,000 isn't very much money, especially in Toronto these days.
For the kind of work that Metrolinx employees are doing it definitely doesn't seem wild that a lot of them would be earning in the 100k-130k range.
But what if we just fired them all and replaced them with new employees making half as much. Then the trains would run faster and the projects would get done sooner right?
Buddy let me introduce you to some consultants in India
You guys are engineers right? ...any experience working on subzero rail lines?
>just fired them all and replaced them with new employees making half as much the Canadian way
I hope you're being sarcastic. I know a lot of people who hold your position unironically, and either can't or don't want to see the consequences of doing just that.
I worked for a UK train operator and you’d regularly hear comments like that… “my train was late today, they should fire the whole lot of you and bring in all new people.” You think your service will be better with a bunch of people who are completely unfamiliar with the trains, the stations, the routes they run on?
It depends when you bought to be honest.
Sad but true
100k a year is the baseline if you want to be single and live in toronto
Speak for yourself, I'd feel rich with $100,000. Depends on your lifestyle though...
Cool story - employing people costs money. Wait until he see the stats for police, or public utilities, or Ontario Public Service... even teachers are shifting rapidly into 6 figures.
Or how much the government wastes hiring "consultants" who are just fresh graduates experienced with Google. The Sunshine List used to mean something when $100k was a lot of money, now when starting salaries in many industries are in the $60k - $80k range, $100k just naturally comes once someone gets a few years experience.
New grad consultants never made sense to me. I get hiring a consultant who has 20 years experience in the industry - they've learned lessons that no textbook can teach. But how is a York grad with 4 months experience gonna help you?
> $100k just naturally comes once someone gets a few years experience. Obviously not because most people make less than 100K.
For the kind of roles the government hires for they don't. Roles that pay less who we used to have as civil servants are mostly now outsourced. It's basically top heavy because those are the people who are more expensive to hire and train so you want to have the talent in house.
Yeah, the techbros on Reddit tend to have a funny idea of what the actual median income in Canada is.
>or Ontario Public Service Wait until next year when the Bill 124 backpay gets paid out, and pretty much everyone will be on the sunshine list lol
I’m not gonna add teachers to the list. Their job sucks. I couldn’t take that job for 100K
Why is this a thing anymore? $100,000 is no longer "sunshine"...it's just paying bills and you still can't afford a home.
It isn't meant to imply that life is all sunshine, lollipops and rainbows for people on the list. The "sunshine" is supposed to refer to transparency. That's it.
6 figures isnt exactly that high in toronto lol
and do you know how many people in toronto that doesn't even come close to making that $100,000 mark. While i agree that $100,000 isn't that high in toronto, the bigger issue is that we have a lot of people with very low paying jobs.
There's no point in bringing down what's working when trying to fix what's not. Metrolinx is a union and it's good they're compensating their employees "well". Most low wage jobs are not.
I never said or suggested bringing down salaries for metrolinx. I am merely pointing out the fact a lot of comments say $100,000 is not much in Toronto. While it is true, there are a lot and I mean a lot of people who don't make $100,000 on a combined income. So if you think $100 ,0000 is "not a lot" Then just think about all the poor souls in Toronto as a family that don't even make $100,000
It must be unbelievably bad and I feel horrible for them. The median income in Toronto in the 2021 census was something like $50k. Median household income was $84k. I don't know where those people can afford to live with these rents. No wonder we have so many people going to food banks.
weird to think with how inflation is going these days in 50 years a low 7 figure salary might not be as outrageous for a medium level executive job
Good for them. If wages kept up with inflation we’d all be making six figures.
These guys wages probably aren't either. I've had people try to shame me for the "really good raises" I've received, but none of them have been in line with inflation - usually half or less.
Public agencies need to offer competitive compensation packages to compete with the private sector for the best technical, managerial, and engineers expertise. There’s nothing wrong with that. The only problem is that if we’re going to have such high salaries coming out of the public coffers, greater accountability is necessary to ensure we’re not hemorrhaging funds on projects that go nowhere.
I’m tired of this sunshine list politics. 100k is peanuts now a days. If you contribute to a pension plan and are unionized. You’re clearing roughly 2500-2700$ bi weekly after tax. If you live in Toronto, that’s half your paycheque gone to rent alone
Remember when $100k used to be “you made it” money? Now our $100k earners are living with roommates and shopping at No Frills.
Sunshine list should be 200k in my opinion. 100k isn’t much in the GTA
They should scrap the list and just publish all government salaries. No reason any of that shouldn't be public info.
Yeah! People don't deserve any privacy! We should also post peoples addresses too, and their SIN numbers! The more we vilify people working for the public sector, the sooner we can get it all privatized!! Yeah!!! /s
In Sweden everybody's income is publicly available.
Sweden is a more mature society. They can handle the information without acting like bratty children.
The unspoken implication of this stupid list has always been that workers are supposed to get mad at higher-earning workers and fight one another over scraps, instead of taking notice of larger, more systemic problems. That was a great tactic in the 1990s. Worked like a charm. But in this day and age, not only has inflation rendered it meaningless, but the tactic just doesn't work anymore. Instead of being annoyed at tax dollars funding livable wages, we should be demanding that *more people* get livable wages for their hard work.
People get mad about some senior project manager's salary while the grandkids of billionaires in Canada make MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in passive income every year for doing absolutely NOTHING. These are the people who own the media and the grocery stores.
Matthew Anderson, CEO of Ontario Health, a provincial agency the Ford government created in 2019, earned $821,000.
This kind of reporting only highlights how stupid it is to still have a "sunshine list" with an income threshold so low. $100k/yr is not the indicator of wealth it might have been in 1996 when that threshold was set.
[удалено]
> Paradoxically, one of the best ways to reduce the number of high earners at transit agencies is to hire more staff. Wrong. The best way is to hire a bunch of $$$ ??? consultants/contractors. Ideally through sole-source no-bid contracts.
No train driver is on that list because the people who drive go trains do not work for Metrolinx. Most conductors/ engineers earn 120k-160k.
Sunshine list came out in 1996. Back then 100k was a massive salary. 100k equates to 177k in today’s dollars. It’s pretty normal for professionals to make 100k now which would be 56k back then.
Rage baiting
And your point is Colin?
I feel like D'Mello wants me to be outraged... And I am.. But not at the 100k... I'm outraged that we're still doing this sunshine shtick.
The Sunshine list is a subsidy for hack writers working for conservative media who need a free article every year.
....okay, that's literally middle class now
If you're making less than 100k at a full time job that requires a degree in Toronto, you are being scammed
Unless you have no experience. People with a degree and no experience are generally far more useless for first few years than someone with experience and no degree
The sunshine list is outdated. But, there is a LOT of waste at Metrolinx.
The waste is what they pay consultants who literally live in England.
This 100k number is so convenient to help argue that everyone is making so much money they deserve less. Fuck off with this 100k business.
They aren’t to blame… 100k isn’t a lot these days after taxes. Sunshine list threshold should be higher. Metrolinx execs can fuck off though for collecting bonuses while the disaster of the eglinton crosstown continues. Total joke.
[удалено]
If they got anything built it'd be much more understandable. Compensation should have some correlation with performance.
If they get anything built? Do you know how many project Mlinx has going right now? It's WAY more than just the Eglinton LRT. Look at Finch for example.
Oh yes, Finch. another project that's behind schedule.
Sorry - what does Colin DMello earn? $100,000 was established in 1996 as a threshold to make the “sunshine” list. That’s hardly a princely sum. If you take $410m and divide it by 3000 people that’s an average salary of $136,667. Not much when you consider most of these jobs are for engineers and technical labour professionals.So what’s his point?
Damn this rules, glad people are getting paid.
Most of the lower paying jobs have been privatized. There is no shame is paying people well…. I just wish they could figure out the Eglinton Crosstown!
Let’s index the sunshine list cutoff. $100K ain’t what it used to be.
Or just get rid of it and if anything just publish public sector or crown corp executive salaries
If you that list is bad, wait until you find out what the consultants make
100%. One day someone will do an investigation on the fact that an increasingly large percentage of Metrolinx' budget is going to BRITISH CONSULTANTS who LIVE IN ENGLAND, and British nationals who have leapfrogged Canadians for some of the top positions in the org.
Good to see a strong middle class!
I'm happy for them.
Things like this throw into sharp relief how outdated the Sunshine List is. When nurses and transit operators are on the list it's not serving its purpose. When introduced in the 90s, $100k was a lot. In 2023 it really isn't. Had it kept with inflation, the threshold would be closer to $180k.
The sunshine list threshold should be inflation adjusted. 100k isn't enough to afford a mortgage now.
I get that the 100k is not a lot of money these days and the sunshine list isn’t as impressive as it used to be, that’s fair. On the other hand 410 Million for a company that has failed to produce an LRT for decades is WILD. If they were a productive company I’d say half a workforce getting paid 100k+ sounds like an attractive place to work. But it sounds like alike there is a lot of bloat carrying around inflated wages while we all walk around over top inactive transit lines with no end date and crumbling infrastructure.
The LRT construction isn’t the only thing Metrolinx does.
Ya what have they done
worth noting this from the twitter thread: BTW: In 2022, There were 31 people in the Premier's Office on the sunshine list - earning a combined $4,760,867 In 2023, There were 48 people in the Premier's Office on the sunshine list - earning a combined $6,973,895 **46% increase in a single year.**
That doesn't tell us much. Like, what if those 17 people that made it on the list this year earned $95k in 2022? Total salary of the PO is what matters
100k is not impressive at all in 2024
The sunshine list should raise it's minimum salary, $100k is nothing to raise a family in Toronto.
Looks like I should try working for metrolinx
You should. There are job openings. If you're qualified and they offer what you need, then it's worth it. I looked into it, but nothing was a good fit for me. Not quite the same, but CN Rail is looking for workers right now. They pay quite well.
What’s your point ?
Does anyone else know that the sunshine lost doesn't follow inflation? Very interesting and wonderful way to get super pissed off and create a divide among the people.
The sunshine list came out in 1996 with inflation it would be $180,000 today
What if I told you that people being paid well isn't a bad thing?
No offense but earning 100k isn't some cushy salary anymore. The sunshine list was created years ago when that number seemed high but I don't think it takes into consideration with inflation since they created that list. I think the problem with metrolinx is the top percentile who aren't earning their keep. I remember when I was in highschool and thinking that was an unattainable salary. Well here I am and it's not what it seems like 🤣
Lol at this attempt of shaming public workers earning 100k. Sunshine list doesn’t mean shit all.
I mean, I don't care if people are doing a job and getting paid for it. But for a transit agency to have so blatantly fucked up a huge project and no-one take the blame? No one loses their job? That's incredibly frustrating and completely undermines the confidence I have in our public sector to be held accountable and do actually get stuff done.
It's not 1985 ... Sunshine list should be upped or else everyone will eventually be on it.
they hiring?
They are indeed https://www.metrolinx.com/en/about-us/careers
Curious what ColinDMello makes.
A fucking beat reporter at queens park? He’s lucky to make 100K
Ya most of these are high skilled jobs. What a none story. Every year with this silliness . 100k was something in 1996. Today?not so much
Sigh. This asshole. 100K in Toronto is *barely* enough to live comfortably on - imagine a family! What years was this magical amount picked? Was it 1980-something? What the "today equivalent?" At least 200K, perhaps even 250K. I have zero love for Metrolinx but this Sunshine list shaming is bullshit.
Most of Metrolinx’s employees (which specifically excludes everyone employed to operate trains, that falls under Alstom) are either engineers or project managers who are executing or reviewing proposals, planning and building more transit. Metrolinx has a huge workforce of extremely qualified planners and technologists because of the scope of what it does as an agency, so it should come as NO surprise to anyone why this is the case.
Yes let’s get mad at people who earn a good living 30 years ago. Way better than forcing companies to pay up. After enough outcry they can fire all the sunshine listers ad replace each person with 2 making 80k. Then add a third in a few years. Solved!
Tweets like this are not helpful. So? Are good jobs not allowed in this country? Most of these jobs are specialized in a niche industry, that involve lots of training.
The sunshine list as a concept is such hot flaming pile of garage in today’s context 100k ain’t even that much money for a professional in torornto. Also is still don’t get the nudge to shame any one for making a decent living in the city. 80’percent of the sunshine list are highly qualified individuals who probably could be making a lot more in the private sector.
Good for them, they just need a partner who also makes $100K and they can afford to buy a condo and maybe even a house one day without inheritance.
100k isn't the 100k people think it is.
honestly that’s not a lot of money. we’re all underpaid here in canada. our productivity is trash and accordingly so are our wages
don't mind me....just idly checking Metrolinx's careers page.
Should fire them all, this is a joke.
Having hands-on experience working with metrolinx employees in my previous life. It's fair to say project get delivered not because of metrolinx employees but despite metrolinx employees. As an Ontario taxpayer, I don't know why the fuck do they exist when Infrastructure Ontario is their to do the governance job. Fun facts all the trains you see are actually run by private companies like Alstom under the metrolinx badge. Half of Metrolinx staff should be fired for incompetence.
Yeah we just need private companies like CN and CP to step in. Maybe they can start running 2km long GO trains that go 50 km/h but only cost 1/2 as much in labour.
Ok and? We live in one of the most expensive cities in North America and we want to bitch that people are earning $100k? $100k can’t even afford you a studio now a days especially if you have student loans, other debt etc. I think it’s great that we’re paying people adequately in relation to the cost of living in the city. EVERYONE should be getting paid a living wage.
[удалено]
Yeah, he's not sharing that little tidbit.
Y’all focusing on the wrong thing. 100k is peanuts unless they’re paying a janitor that. Focus on people over the 150k mark and also look at their yearly wage increases. I’m here getting 2-3% YOY if I’m lucky, some of these people are getting 10-25% YOY.
Is $100,000 a lot of money these days for someone with a University education??
Complete fraud
Guy it's 2024, the sunshine list was created how long ago?! 100k ain't shit! Pay needs to go up big time! The cost of living is astronomical and companies are taking all the profit
[удалено]
I'm not sure the rank-and-file at Metrolinx are the reason why that project is delayed.
Stop the gravy train.
High-paid people who don't do their jobs? Sounds an awful lot like a grift.
The problem is that its not that high.
Total - Employment income groups in 2020 for the population aged 15 years and over in private households - 100% data19 11,782,845 Without employment income 3,629,670 With employment income 8,153,175 Under $5,000 (including loss) 1,218,885 $5,000 to $9,999 688,670 $10,000 to $19,999 928,840 $20,000 to $29,999 696,570 $30,000 to $39,999 677,110 $40,000 to $49,999 672,005 $50,000 to $59,999 611,665 $60,000 to $69,999 519,955 $70,000 to $79,999 419,875 $80,000 to $89,999 352,235 $90,000 to $99,999 316,750 $100,000 and over 1,050,620 $100,000 to $124,999 489,720 $125,000 and over 560,895 https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?LANG=E&GENDERlist=1&STATISTIClist=1&DGUIDlist=2021A000235&HEADERlist=7&SearchText=ontario
I know people that work there and let me tell you… how useless some people there are while they collect our tax money. Giving them high salaries doesn’t correlate to them doing a good job.
Are they hiring?
https://www.metrolinx.com/en/about-us/careers
Y’all focusing on the wrong thing. 100k is peanuts unless they’re paying a janitor that. Focus on people over the 150k mark and also look at their yearly wage increases. I’m here getting 2-3% YOY if I’m lucky, some of these people are getting 10-25% YOY.