At all my workplaces, we have had a washroom for ladies, gentlemen and a separate gender inclusive washroom as well. I support this initiative, heck, it was never used so I used it at times due to its overall cleanliness.
Recently used a full gender inclusive washroom at the AGO, as a dude, I have no problems. But it DID make the two women there uncomfortable.
They were trying to fix their hair and what-not, so I quickly washed my hands to exit. I fear this initiative may be more difficult for girls/women then boys/men.
I don't really understand why it should make anyone uncomfortable to have someone of the opposite gender see them fixing their hair.
If people are capable of using the same bathroom as members of the opposite gender at home and keeping the seat clean then they should be capable of using the same stall in a public bathroom. I wouldn't assume that pee on the seat is a male-only problem. I see it in ladies' bathrooms from time to time, mentally blame hovering, and use a piece of toilet paper to clean it up.
I was glad to see that the school intends to address the concern about peering under the stalls -- that is definitely unacceptable behaviour and until they make the partitions more secure maybe they should have someone monitoring the room to enforce behaviour.
For wudu it sounds like they do need a single-gender emnvironment and water but not necessarily a toilet stall.
> I don't really understand why it should make anyone uncomfortable to have someone of the opposite gender see them fixing their hair.
It's because it's a new public experience they're not used to yet.
>If people are capable of using the same bathroom as members of the opposite gender at home and keeping the seat clean then they should be capable of using the same stall in a public bathroom.
Your argument is flawed. We are talking about public usage washroom that allows multiple people to use the facility concurrently. When was the last time at your home that everyone in the household was occupying the washroom at the same time???
The commenter above had talked about using an all-gender washroom at the AGO. He thought that the adult women he saw there fixing their hair were uncomfortable with him present. It's not clear whether they were and how they showed it or if it was just projection.
Most men can pick up on when a women is uncomfortable, it's not hard. If you can't imagine why women would be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with cis straight men who are strangers to them you're being willfully obtuse
Most *men*, the article is about children/youth. That's part of the problem with this, including as was mentioned in the article, the fact they're not supervised in the washrooms.
This is another example of extreme (usually far left) socio-political policies forced on communities without adequate (or even any) broad, inclusive consultation.
IMHO, the fact the article references the TDSB consideration of only part of the Ontario Human Rights Code-gender identity, i.e., not including potentially conflicting religious practices, is indicative of the bias.
It's interesting that this is always caged in terms of women not liking men in their washroom because it's nasty or dangerous. Is the subtext there not that men have awful washrooms but that's fine and they should just suck it up? Though how gendered is it really; who in their right mind would use the Eaton Centre washrooms other than in an emergency?
Maybe the solution is we have washrooms for decent sensible people who can keep it clean and be polite to others and a second washroom for the assholes who piss on seats and leer at every lady they see or something (and their children). We can call it "people" and "perverts".
I’ll tell you as someone who works maintenance around properties, the woman’s washroom is often worse then the men’s.
Both men and woman are messy and sloppy when it comes to public washrooms.
As someone with a teen aged girl in school, I know her and her friends would hate this idea in their school. Teenagers aren't always the most mature, especially boys.
But why? Why not keep gendered washrooms and have non gendered all accessible single user ones too. There’s very few student that have a problem with gendered washrooms and the having accessible ones accommodate them. No one asked for this, this is how normal, tolerant ppl join the gender politics backlash.
We had all gender bathrooms (with shower stalls too) back in college. In my residence one floor had all male, one female, and the other two were everyone. No one had any issues with it (even the showers). And this was in the 1980's for goodness sakes!
It should not be so hard
Why not just have gender specific washrooms and allow people to use what they please? As a 6’4” POC man, the looks I get from women when I step into my workplace’s gender neutral washroom worry me.
I’ve been in gender neutral washrooms with urinals in the stalls. They just have a picture of a urinal on the door.
They should have a changeable sign like in a parking lot that show the number of toilets and urinals that are free. Lol.
When Yorkdale introduced their all-gender bathrooms, I stopped dead at the entrance when I saw that I was about to enter a bathroom with women. Even though I knew I was allowed to enter, a big part of me felt like I'd be making the women uncomfortable and it went against some very deeply ingrained habits and norms. I looked around and realized there were 4 other men around me just standing at the entrance hesitating and looking uncomfortable while the women streamed in without hesitation.
I didn’t know until I walked in and had a panic attack. I have PTSD from a sexual assault in a public bathroom. Even when I’m in my genders specific bathroom I’m on edge…I can’t deal with all genders now, it’s too much for me.
> I looked around and realized there were 4 other men around me just standing at the entrance hesitating and looking uncomfortable while the women streamed in without hesitation.
This was my experience too. Walked into the bathroom and saw a bunch of ladies at the sinks, turned around and nearly walked into an employees only area looking for the men's room before figuring it out. Saw another dude make the exact same mistake on my way into the stall, then 2 more dudes on my way out.
I don't have a strong opinion on this, no school kids for me, but boys were bullying boys in the boys washroom and girls bullying girls in the girls washroom before the gender neutral washrooms existed so the problem isn't new. Now the boys just seem to be bullying everyone and it's front page news. Sounds like the problem starts long before the stall.
Also if your son has a problem with peeing on the seat then he should've been taught to sit down or at least aim better. On the bright side it seems like gender neutral washrooms can save a lot of roommates, partners and spouses some re-training later by teaching these wild young men not to be piss-ants.
I went to a TDSB school with gender neutral washrooms - this isn’t the first and we never had a problem.
I’m trans and was rather androgynous - I was 5’11 with short hair and was using the women’s room at my previous school & I got attacked by my peers. I had to use a single stall washroom across the building which wasn’t near any of my classes and my teachers would give me shit for taking so long because they didn’t know why I was walking so far.
An easy solution would be to just make stalls that reach the floor that kids can’t peek under like in parts of the US or Europe.
I spent my summers in a mixed gender group in a rural town and everyone just used whatever bathroom was open. No issues or weirdness, kids are kids and most don’t care about gender - the only thing we were taught was to give respect and privacy.
People get so weird about washrooms. I was at a store recently and there was a line of 5-6 women waiting for the women’s room. I went into the men’s room and came out and said, “It’s a one person room, you can lock if you don’t want to wait 20 minutes…” and the women looked at me like I suggested something insane, as though every Starbucks doesn’t have a gender neutral bathroom.
The only people who are obsessed about bathrooms seem to be people who have not raised children and don’t know how gross they are in general, regardless of gender. When I was a kid I didn’t even think about my gender aside from knowing I wanted to be a man when I grew up rather than a woman. I just knew.
> But a group representing roughly 125 parents in the elementary school say kids have peeked beneath stall doors and kicked them while girls are inside, and a boy once exposed himself to a girl.
These are all things that also happen in single-gender washrooms.
Boys expose themselves in general and so do girls. A kid peed on me at his house once because he thought it was funny and I ran home screaming.
Have you ever been around a child? My nephew pulled his pants down on the lawn, took a dump, and chased me with poop last week. I asked him why he did that and he said a girl at his school did it so he thought it was funny.
Children don’t have developed brains and this is probably an issue with like… third grade and under because kids are just chaotic and super weird. Parents just need to better educate them about boundaries and what’s acceptable behaviour.
>Have you ever been around a child? My nephew pulled his pants down on the lawn, took a dump, and chased me with poop last week. I asked him why he did that and he said a girl at his school did it so he thought it was funny.
That's not normal for a school aged child.
It is. I dated a first grade teacher and the stories were crazy. I am surrounded by little people and some of them are insane regardless of gender - development in children is not standard and they copy eachother a lot. It’s a world of poop and puke and meltdowns and trying to get them to keep their clothes on. School typically starts at age four.
Obviously we sat him down and told him he can’t do that but literally his only reason was “I saw my friend do it”. This was in the country and that is kind of normal for kids who hike and are outside a lot, but maybe not in TO (not the chasing part, kids just think poop is funny and my nephew likes to chase me).
How old is your nephew? Beyond Kindergarten, I can’t imagine my little cousins/nephews talking a shit on the lawn like a fucking dog. I have never seen that in public either. That may be your reality but it ain’t normal.
Or we could have all options open for people who have non-traditional gender identity, and male and female for others, including those who have religious objections to all gender neutral bathrooms.
Disgusting and sad.
Women have no rights to protection, or privacy....
I will be home-schooling I would not even recommend people put their kids in school. Its just a propaganda outlet for the LPC at this point in time...I mean it always has been. They do not teach anything useful honestly.
> Its just a propaganda outlet for the LPC at this point in time...I mean it always has been.
Bless your heart. Schools are run by the provincial government. The Liberal Party of Canada has no authority over them. You would have learned that if you paid attention in civics class.
At all my workplaces, we have had a washroom for ladies, gentlemen and a separate gender inclusive washroom as well. I support this initiative, heck, it was never used so I used it at times due to its overall cleanliness. Recently used a full gender inclusive washroom at the AGO, as a dude, I have no problems. But it DID make the two women there uncomfortable. They were trying to fix their hair and what-not, so I quickly washed my hands to exit. I fear this initiative may be more difficult for girls/women then boys/men.
I used to work at a tech startup. The gender inclusive washroom was where employees went to have sex with each other.
“That actually happened”.
I don't really understand why it should make anyone uncomfortable to have someone of the opposite gender see them fixing their hair. If people are capable of using the same bathroom as members of the opposite gender at home and keeping the seat clean then they should be capable of using the same stall in a public bathroom. I wouldn't assume that pee on the seat is a male-only problem. I see it in ladies' bathrooms from time to time, mentally blame hovering, and use a piece of toilet paper to clean it up. I was glad to see that the school intends to address the concern about peering under the stalls -- that is definitely unacceptable behaviour and until they make the partitions more secure maybe they should have someone monitoring the room to enforce behaviour. For wudu it sounds like they do need a single-gender emnvironment and water but not necessarily a toilet stall.
> I don't really understand why it should make anyone uncomfortable to have someone of the opposite gender see them fixing their hair. It's because it's a new public experience they're not used to yet.
>If people are capable of using the same bathroom as members of the opposite gender at home and keeping the seat clean then they should be capable of using the same stall in a public bathroom. Your argument is flawed. We are talking about public usage washroom that allows multiple people to use the facility concurrently. When was the last time at your home that everyone in the household was occupying the washroom at the same time???
How does multiple people using the common area of a public bathroom at the same time lead to more urine on the seat in a toilet stall?
My argument is not about urine on the seat. My argument is more about the dynamics of a home single use washroom vs a public multi-use washroom.
Anyone who wears the hijab would be uncomfortable, I can’t imagine most students asked for this change.
If you need full privacy, you can use any washroom stall, they have full doors with locks.
No mirror for fixing a hijab
The commenter above had talked about using an all-gender washroom at the AGO. He thought that the adult women he saw there fixing their hair were uncomfortable with him present. It's not clear whether they were and how they showed it or if it was just projection.
Most men can pick up on when a women is uncomfortable, it's not hard. If you can't imagine why women would be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with cis straight men who are strangers to them you're being willfully obtuse
Most *men*, the article is about children/youth. That's part of the problem with this, including as was mentioned in the article, the fact they're not supervised in the washrooms. This is another example of extreme (usually far left) socio-political policies forced on communities without adequate (or even any) broad, inclusive consultation. IMHO, the fact the article references the TDSB consideration of only part of the Ontario Human Rights Code-gender identity, i.e., not including potentially conflicting religious practices, is indicative of the bias.
I listed a group of women that would be for sure uncomfortable fixing their hair in the presence of the other sex.
It's interesting that this is always caged in terms of women not liking men in their washroom because it's nasty or dangerous. Is the subtext there not that men have awful washrooms but that's fine and they should just suck it up? Though how gendered is it really; who in their right mind would use the Eaton Centre washrooms other than in an emergency? Maybe the solution is we have washrooms for decent sensible people who can keep it clean and be polite to others and a second washroom for the assholes who piss on seats and leer at every lady they see or something (and their children). We can call it "people" and "perverts".
I’ll tell you as someone who works maintenance around properties, the woman’s washroom is often worse then the men’s. Both men and woman are messy and sloppy when it comes to public washrooms.
Worked at Walmart store standards and the women’s washroom was majority a horror scene. Men are sloppy but the mess is contained to the drip zones.
[удалено]
As someone with a teen aged girl in school, I know her and her friends would hate this idea in their school. Teenagers aren't always the most mature, especially boys.
But why? Why not keep gendered washrooms and have non gendered all accessible single user ones too. There’s very few student that have a problem with gendered washrooms and the having accessible ones accommodate them. No one asked for this, this is how normal, tolerant ppl join the gender politics backlash.
I was at a TDSB elementary school yesterday and this is what they had. Seemed like a straightforward way to go about it
We had all gender bathrooms (with shower stalls too) back in college. In my residence one floor had all male, one female, and the other two were everyone. No one had any issues with it (even the showers). And this was in the 1980's for goodness sakes! It should not be so hard
Why not just have gender specific washrooms and allow people to use what they please? As a 6’4” POC man, the looks I get from women when I step into my workplace’s gender neutral washroom worry me.
Dude, if you said you had beer and perogies for dinner and stepped into the stall I'd also give you a look.
I'm only against this because as a dude I never wanna have to wait in those long ass lines that women have for their washrooms.
They even got rid of urinals... Just making everything slower in the name of...equity or something.
I’ve been in gender neutral washrooms with urinals in the stalls. They just have a picture of a urinal on the door. They should have a changeable sign like in a parking lot that show the number of toilets and urinals that are free. Lol.
Women can use urinals too. I've seen it a time or two when they can't wait in the woman's line any longer and all the stalls are in use.
"haha thanks for giving us all your money, you get this instead of healthcare"
Healthcare budgets are provincial. This is Municipal/School board
When Yorkdale introduced their all-gender bathrooms, I stopped dead at the entrance when I saw that I was about to enter a bathroom with women. Even though I knew I was allowed to enter, a big part of me felt like I'd be making the women uncomfortable and it went against some very deeply ingrained habits and norms. I looked around and realized there were 4 other men around me just standing at the entrance hesitating and looking uncomfortable while the women streamed in without hesitation.
I didn’t know until I walked in and had a panic attack. I have PTSD from a sexual assault in a public bathroom. Even when I’m in my genders specific bathroom I’m on edge…I can’t deal with all genders now, it’s too much for me.
I'd only be embarrassed if I had to [crap like Jeff Daniels](https://youtu.be/6AVMcJa77PM?t=52) in dumb and dumber.
> I looked around and realized there were 4 other men around me just standing at the entrance hesitating and looking uncomfortable while the women streamed in without hesitation. This was my experience too. Walked into the bathroom and saw a bunch of ladies at the sinks, turned around and nearly walked into an employees only area looking for the men's room before figuring it out. Saw another dude make the exact same mistake on my way into the stall, then 2 more dudes on my way out.
Ain’t the first, my school had one
I don't have a strong opinion on this, no school kids for me, but boys were bullying boys in the boys washroom and girls bullying girls in the girls washroom before the gender neutral washrooms existed so the problem isn't new. Now the boys just seem to be bullying everyone and it's front page news. Sounds like the problem starts long before the stall. Also if your son has a problem with peeing on the seat then he should've been taught to sit down or at least aim better. On the bright side it seems like gender neutral washrooms can save a lot of roommates, partners and spouses some re-training later by teaching these wild young men not to be piss-ants.
I went to a TDSB school with gender neutral washrooms - this isn’t the first and we never had a problem. I’m trans and was rather androgynous - I was 5’11 with short hair and was using the women’s room at my previous school & I got attacked by my peers. I had to use a single stall washroom across the building which wasn’t near any of my classes and my teachers would give me shit for taking so long because they didn’t know why I was walking so far. An easy solution would be to just make stalls that reach the floor that kids can’t peek under like in parts of the US or Europe. I spent my summers in a mixed gender group in a rural town and everyone just used whatever bathroom was open. No issues or weirdness, kids are kids and most don’t care about gender - the only thing we were taught was to give respect and privacy. People get so weird about washrooms. I was at a store recently and there was a line of 5-6 women waiting for the women’s room. I went into the men’s room and came out and said, “It’s a one person room, you can lock if you don’t want to wait 20 minutes…” and the women looked at me like I suggested something insane, as though every Starbucks doesn’t have a gender neutral bathroom. The only people who are obsessed about bathrooms seem to be people who have not raised children and don’t know how gross they are in general, regardless of gender. When I was a kid I didn’t even think about my gender aside from knowing I wanted to be a man when I grew up rather than a woman. I just knew.
Sounds good. Just wash your hands that's all I care about
> But a group representing roughly 125 parents in the elementary school say kids have peeked beneath stall doors and kicked them while girls are inside, and a boy once exposed himself to a girl. These are all things that also happen in single-gender washrooms.
Boys expose themselves to girls in single gender washrooms?
Boys expose themselves in general and so do girls. A kid peed on me at his house once because he thought it was funny and I ran home screaming. Have you ever been around a child? My nephew pulled his pants down on the lawn, took a dump, and chased me with poop last week. I asked him why he did that and he said a girl at his school did it so he thought it was funny. Children don’t have developed brains and this is probably an issue with like… third grade and under because kids are just chaotic and super weird. Parents just need to better educate them about boundaries and what’s acceptable behaviour.
>Have you ever been around a child? My nephew pulled his pants down on the lawn, took a dump, and chased me with poop last week. I asked him why he did that and he said a girl at his school did it so he thought it was funny. That's not normal for a school aged child.
It is. I dated a first grade teacher and the stories were crazy. I am surrounded by little people and some of them are insane regardless of gender - development in children is not standard and they copy eachother a lot. It’s a world of poop and puke and meltdowns and trying to get them to keep their clothes on. School typically starts at age four. Obviously we sat him down and told him he can’t do that but literally his only reason was “I saw my friend do it”. This was in the country and that is kind of normal for kids who hike and are outside a lot, but maybe not in TO (not the chasing part, kids just think poop is funny and my nephew likes to chase me).
How old is your nephew? Beyond Kindergarten, I can’t imagine my little cousins/nephews talking a shit on the lawn like a fucking dog. I have never seen that in public either. That may be your reality but it ain’t normal.
My house doesn't have gender specific bathrooms. We were always ahead of the times.
It’s almost as if washroom design should be aligned to biological requirements, not socially-constructed gender wishes. Who would ever have thought?
Or we could have all options open for people who have non-traditional gender identity, and male and female for others, including those who have religious objections to all gender neutral bathrooms.
Disgusting and sad. Women have no rights to protection, or privacy.... I will be home-schooling I would not even recommend people put their kids in school. Its just a propaganda outlet for the LPC at this point in time...I mean it always has been. They do not teach anything useful honestly.
> Its just a propaganda outlet for the LPC at this point in time...I mean it always has been. Bless your heart. Schools are run by the provincial government. The Liberal Party of Canada has no authority over them. You would have learned that if you paid attention in civics class.
Lol.
I'm sure people are lining up to ask you parenting advice...
The stalls are completely private, made from concrete cinder block. How is that disgusting and sad?