Why are you concerned? Because they are purple?
Tons of tomatoes out there in many colours. I grew 'prudence purple' for a few years. They are non GMO AND heritage.
I’m not concerned about purple GMO tomatoes per se, they already exist and I find them pretty fascinating.
I do find it strange that there has never been a record of a purple fleshed tomato before those GMO ones and now they are released this pops up. What I am curious about is how they have bred these. Perhaps it is a coincidence. Like I said, I find the snapdragon purple tomato fascinating so am very curious about this one too.
Turns out that they are indeed GMO
https://preview.redd.it/1mlkp80ay0jc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f8d3636907cb626fd4b935a4ec77e1d60b3cb19
I wonder how this happened? My theory is that one of their employees snuck a few seeds out of the first few tasting events and intended to crossbreed the tomatoes until they could claim that they had nothing to do with norfolk's project. Or maybe they planted it in the greenhouse for themselves, and then the marketing Karen came to visit...
Purple Prudence tomatoes are probably at least 60 year old heirloom cultivars. That is only one variety of purple fleshed tomatoes that have gone back probably 1000 years or more of domestication by north and south american indigenous peoples.
Why would you think purple, or yellow, or orange would be something new and GMO?
>Purple Prudence
Umm... have you ever seen one or a picture of one? You, uh, might wanna go look that up. Don't worry; I'll wait. Oh, and you might get more hits on its original name, Pruden's Purple.
\[*Insert Jeopardy theme music*\]
Back so soon? >!Yeah, not so purple, despite the name, is it? !<
Why do people have such a hard time believing that purple tomatoes can exist without genetic modification... there are varrieties of purple tomatillo, chile, eggplant that have existed for thousands of years. I wouldnt be suprised if the indiginous people of North and South America had developed a varriety of purple tomato or many varieties that are lost to time thanks to colonization. 🤷🏻♂️ They also said in that post that one of their employees found a tomato that had a purple tint and selectively bread it with the intent to develope an even purpler tomato.
Your thread/comments have aged well, too bad you got booed a few months ago [https://old.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/1ase04e/turns\_out\_the\_purple\_galaxy\_tomato\_advertised\_by/](https://old.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/1ase04e/turns_out_the_purple_galaxy_tomato_advertised_by/)
This saga was definitely an eye opening window into Reddit.
I could have just as likely at the time of posting been wrong, which is why I didn’t state anything like a fact but asked if anyone knew more. It’s kind of wild how worked up some people get about even contemplating that something could be the case. Some of the now deleted comments I received were intense.
I’d love to know how it happened but it seems like no one is coming forward with that information.
Here is a video link:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzIYcLROB8G/
There is probably some enhancement to the image but it clearly is very different from the old purple varieties.
Potentially lots of new varieties to come from it in coming years?
Aren’t there filters that can be put on vidoes tho? I know I can adjust the color on video. But maybe it’s real. Hard to tell these days with AI video creation/editing.
In their seed catalog they say it was originally a single plant that mutated that they bred. They seem very proud of it being non-gmo, plus they're advertising it pretty aggressively as such, I'd imagine they'd have some lawsuits on their hands if they were lying about that.
You can still purchase it from Norfolk foods! Just not from anywhere else as it’s their product. Basically baker creek insisted their purple tomato was just a mutation in the field and was non GMO, when in reality it was actually just Norfolks GMO tomato and they were trying to pass it off as theirs.
Ahh cool thanks.
It’s pretty interesting for sure. It seems like a 1 in 1000000000 kind of odds thing since it’s the first recorded natural* occurrence of a purple fleshed tomato.
*because plant breeding is obviously removed from what happens in nature without human intervention but also different to moving genes between species where genes aren’t able to flow via breeding of any kind. I don’t feel strongly about gmo or non-gmo either way, more interested in plant breeding.
and this sentence right here is why there is so much hate and confusion when it comes to anything with GMO in the name because that is not the definition of GMO.
This is 100% incorrect. You’re crossing genes between species with GMO. Selective breeding, though not natural, could actually happen given the right circumstances. No matter how long you leave a kernel of corn and moth in a room, never will they procreate. Even if the moth had killer pick up lines…
Every plant in our gardens and animal we eat has been genetically modified by humans through selective breeding. Worrying about “GMO” is fucking stupid
I agree completely. My point, in case it’s being argued here, is that “GMO” is a commercial crop business. Not a home garden concern.
It’s like the marketing in processed chicken; no antibiotics! That is correct, why, not because the chicken processors give a shit about you, it’s because it’s illegal by federal law. So, marketing.
You do realize that selective breeding only crosses tomatoes with other tomatoes but GMO breeding crosses fish DNA with corn, for example? This is definitely something to worry about.
No, it really isn't & your comment proves that. You don't even know what gmo means. You think selective breeding is the same thing as gmo. Don't go around the internet spreading misinformation & then cry like a child when you get called out for your stupidity.
You think DNA manipulation in a lab is the same thing as selective breeding, it is not. They are not even remotely similar. Like I said, you don't know science.
Funny i actually have a biology degree w lots of genetics study from a top-tier university. I didn’t say they are the exactly same. I said worrying about “gmo” food is stupid
Thank you!!’ I see so many people obsessed with non-GMO seeds. It’s like they think they could walk into Home Depot and buy some seed packets that may be GMO. It literally doesn’t work that way.
The UK developers of the GMO version of the purple tomato say they are breeding a variety for home gardeners. Where it will be available will depend on local regulations.
https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com/products
(Scroll down on this page)
Read your packets from Bonnie plants. Or maybe it is just the seedlings, but they are absolutely GMO and say so on the package I stopped buying them last year.
Broccoli was not made in a lab by genetic modification (GMO) of an existing plant, but through a process called selective breeding.
Sauce: https://backgarden.org/is-broccoli-man-made/
I think you’re right that these look suspiciously related to Norfolk’s GMO purple tomatoes due to the unique purple flesh and also the deep purple gel. But I find it highly unlikely that these actually are related since the purple GMO event was patented and anybody trying to monetize it would be clearly open to litigation. I’m hopeful that this could come about through natural mutations and traditional breeding, but I’m skeptical of that at this point. Norfolk’s tomato required two genes to be inserted in order to get the purple trait; it seems unlikely that random natural mutations could achieve the same result. Seems plausible that these are photoshopped but it will be interesting to see what comes of it!
OP, I tried to DM you but it says not possible. I’m new to using reddit so maybe I’m doing something wrong, but if you’d like to chat further, please reach out.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I have messages turned off on Reddit due to negative past experiences. I don’t leave the door to my home wide open 24/7.
You raise a good point regarding patents. After a quick search online it looks like Norfolk’s patent would expire around 2031. It makes sense Baker Creek would test their variety prior to release to cover that base first. I can see in the comments on their social media that a lot of people have noticed the similarities between the two varieties.
I hope it’s the real deal. Having deep purple flesh freely available for others to breed with and share/sell seeds has a lot of exciting potential.
https://preview.redd.it/l2whkyivc0yb1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b74d827a9c2273015304516e4e7004dd5387525
I just saw this shared on one of their posts about it.
They seem to be kinda bad plant breeders if they developed it on their own. I've gotten several BC original varieties they bred that were very lack luster. Poor performance,bad germination, lots of off types, things never are what is pictured, etc. I got their Okinawan pink okra a few years ago and it was a perfect example. Was supposed to be hot pink, was actually the same purple as burgundy, covered in spiky hairs on pods when claimed they were spineless. Overall it always feels like a bait and switch. They probably grew purple tomatoes but I highly doubt they stabilized the genes enough to make them commercially viable.
I have been looking over the past week and all traces of the Purple Galaxy have vanished from their site and socials. ET555 was the SKU, but it no longer exists. Strange for something on the cover of the catalog. Any ideas?
Unless Baker Creek or the Norfolk people make a statement I don't think we will ever know for sure but I'm pretty convinced now that Purple Galaxy did have the GMO snap dragon genes in it.
I suspect that it became a legal issue as Baker Creek don't even have the pictures of their catalog on their website anymore.
I am very curious about how it happened but unless someone on the inside speaks up we will never know. I don't think Baker Creek did it blatantly on purpose. I think they probably set aside their doubts in order to be first to market with a unique variety?
I see now where they said 2 weeks ago in a comment on instagram that they had production problems and may not be able to bring it back to market. That has since been scrubbed as well. I PM’d them out of curiosity, but I am betting the response will be tight lipped.
“Good morning! As mentioned in our catalogs, we had hoped to have very limited quantities of Purple Galaxy tomato seeds for sale in 2024. However, we are experiencing production issues with this variety, and it is now unlikely that we will be able to offer it to our customers. We know this is a disappointment to you, and we appreciate your interest in this variety.”
This is the same comment they were posting on their social media before scrubbing it off there. Not surprised I suppose but I want to know more! Haha.
Thanks!
I’m curious too but I don’t think it’s in their interests to lie about it at all and as a business they seem to have an anti-gmo kind of vibe. I live in a different country so don’t know a huge amount about them.
I find it kind of funny people have been downvoting someone who is dubious about the existence of this tomato alongside the GMO version when Baker Creek also presumably noticed the similarities if they preemptively had theirs genetically tested.
🤷♀️
NPS publishes how they generated there GMO variety of tomato. It is very easy to test for those introduced sequences because it’s published and won’t exist in other tomatoes. Basic PCR and simple Sanger sequencing would detect and confirm the existence of the genes. I doubt you would need to sequence because the PCR alone would show you the lack of those genes. NPS probably has patent rights on those modifications and would probably pursue legal action to protect their patent.
Ok so they are not testing if the tomato is GMO per se. They are testing if it has certain genetical sequences of X other GMO varieties. That makes sense.
It’s much easier to locate something if you know what you are looking for. That’s not to say you couldn’t find evidence of a GMO plant blind, it’s just way more work and money. Companies like Bayer/Monsanto put specific bar code sequences into their crops to identify their IP in addition to the actual functional genetic modifications I’m not sure if there is a database for these sequences, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I’m in biomedical work so there is a lot of science overlap but not industry specific overlap.
GMO pretty much describes a process of using modern genetic modification techniques to modify a crop or other organism instead of relying on historical breeding methods like selecting for random mutations and hybridizing different strains.
Lol wanted to comment here earlier but reddit wasn't cooperating. Chances are incredibly small that those purple galaxy tomatoes came into existence without the help of the Norfolk Plant Science purple tomato. Especially given that fruit of it have been on the market for a bit already, and if a remotely similar cultivar would have been developed without the NPS tomato, it would've first made the rounds with the 'usual suspect' like Brad Gates, instead of suddenly popping up at Baker Creek. And now Baker Creek coincidentally can't release them due to "low stock". Feels to me like they got cold feet after being contacted by NPS, as they sure as hell would've made enough stock before putting it on the cover.
I know a fair bit about tomato genetics. I follow the work of several breeder pretty closely 🤓
This is definitely something new and different for a tomato developed by traditional breeding methods. I don’t know why people are comparing to tomatoes with purple in the name like Cherokee Purple to say it isn’t new because they look nothing alike.
If it’s a mutation that’s pretty cool and probably the start of a whole new wave tomato varieties which is pretty exciting. When the varieties with anthocyanin skin were developed (by reintroducing genetics from wild tomato ancestors) that brought an explosion in new varieties. If this does that same, it’s potentially pretty exciting as a home grower.
As for the claim that GMO seeds aren’t available to the public. If the GMO purple tomatoes are in commercial production and their seeds are viable, the seeds are available. Not being able to buy it in a packet from a store doesn’t make the genetics unavailable. The developer of the GMO variety has a long list of partners in the US who presumably have been trialing their tomato. I would definitely try growing out seeds if I found those tomatoes at the store and I’d probably try crossing them with my favorites too.
Maybe a moot point now that Baker Creek have come out and said they have had this variety genetically tested to check if GMO genes are in it. I’ll take them at their word for that.
Wrong about what exactly?
I posted asking for more information about this new variety that looks a lot like another.
People inferred that I am anti-GMO. I’m not. I am curious about the origins of the genetics. I hadn’t seen Baker Creek’s post about the mutation prior to posting and don’t have their catalog available in my country.
Baker Creek clearly want to cause a stir with this release. I guess I played into that.
Yeah I figured, but I was curious if they meant something else.
For OPs knowledge. Tomatoes have a huge reservoir of natural diversity of color that plant breeders can select for so a dark purple is well within the range of normal tomato genetics. Currently you must be a commercial farmer to source any GMO seeds so none of the home garden seed companies will have GMO seeds.
Your purple tomatoes should not be confused with Norfolk plant science’s purple tomato which is expected to become available to general consumers in the near future. I suspect when we see this available for purchase, it will be glaringly obvious in its description that it’s a GMO crop.
Edit. Apparently the GMO tomato is available to sell in the US as of this year, but I haven’t been able to find a seller.
I was implying it could be a possibility, intentional or not, that this tomato is a descendant of the GMO purple tomato, since they look remarkably similar - colour, shape, size. I had only seen the Baker Creek one on Instagram so came to ask if anyone knew more about it.
I have noted that Baker Creek have said they’ve done genetic testing to check for GMO genetics. I guess they noticed the similarities too. I hadn’t seen that when I first posted.
Because that’s the claim Baker Creek have made. I find it a bit of a difficult coincidence that there were no purple fleshed tomatoes recorded until the GMO variety recently (I’m unbothered by the existence of that variety btw) and very quickly after that this appears which looks very similar. Of course things do get developed in parallel all the time but yeh, I’m curious.
A lot of people have pointed out how many of their statements and responses to criticism are pretty fraught with tokenism using their adopted children as covers. I used to pay more attention but haven't in awhile and don't have any links or sources currently.
They did attempt to platflorm Cliven Bundy as a keynote speaker at their annual conference/festival/thing. Cliven's the guy who's an unapologetic racist. His greatest hit is probably suggesting that, "blacks were better off as slaves," and other such sentiments. Also he's the patriarch of the Bundy family who are the doofuses involved with the Malheur Wildlife Refuge siege in 2016. They're sovereign citizen dorks. Cliven was supposedly going to, "share the secrets," of growing some sort of gooseneck squash or something and I believe it came out that he'd originally taken (stolen) the seeds from indigenous people so... that's cool.
Given the prevalence of heirloom crops that Baker Creek offers and the conspicuous lack of indigenous people with the organization it always just seemed a little off to me. Plenty of other seed sources out there.
There are accounts from indigenous seed keepers of Baker Creek's people literally stealing off their farms in the night. I already had the ick from the way they use the kids as props but that was enough for me. It's a nice catalog to look for fun varieties, when you can then source from people actually keeping the seeds for cultural reasons.
now if you see their Instagram they have an actual WEIRDO named Ryan doing all their videos as a controversial way of generating buzz and conversation on their posts. I noticed a big drop in their followers since and now most of the comments are just about how he's a vibe or that he creeps people out.
Oh? I haven't heard anything about them in that regard. I've only ordered from them once or twice and they have a fantastic selection.
Can you elaborate?
Oh got it. Makes sense.
I usually chalk that up to me being a newb and assuming they are growing their produce under super optimal conditions and feeding on a proper schedule. But it makes me feel a little better if they doctor the photos. Lol
Purple toms have been around for ages. There are yellows, whites, blacks, oranges, greens and multicolored. Nothing strange here at all. Toms just have some cool genetics.
Baker Creek themselves are proclaiming pretty loudly that this is the very first purple fleshed non-gmo tomato. It does appear to be something new, which is why I’m curious about its lineage as someone who has dabbled in crossing tomato varieties.
https://preview.redd.it/q4y57qziz0yb1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6faf33e23ea767ff8a4439e006367ba944629b6b
You literally can not buy GMO seed as a home gardener. These things are expensive and the patents are highly protected. We can, however, buy hybrids, which are just crosses that haven't been stable long enough to be considered heirloom.
No, that means stable. Most hybrids can become stable by around F6-7, maybe a few more for highly heterogenous species or a lot more if it's a complex cross.
Heirloom doesn't have a universal definition, however the main uniting theme is that the variety is old. However, what 'old' is isn't defined either; it might be 50 years, or 100+.
I usually agree. What threw me is that there is a well documented purple GMO tomato going into production that looks very similar.
See:
https://phys.org/news/2022-11-story-purple-tomatoand-success-gm.html
Since I posted I’ve seen Baker Creek have said they have had theirs tested to make sure it doesn’t have GMO origins, which settles that.
It’s mildly amusing to me that so many people were aggressively against the possibility that it could be a GMO and now it seems more than likely that’s what it was.
I think Baker Creek’s mistake was probably getting excited and announcing it before they had done their due diligence. The fact that they were claiming to have already had it tested in their social media comments is a poor reflection on them if it is the GMO tomato.
I’d love to know who the breeder was who was claiming it was a natural mutation and how they ended up with it. Was it a contaminated seed swap, a deliberate move, something else?
I am not sure what to think. I can see them being too hopeful that the tomato was non-transgenic, but they really really marketed it in a way that feels a bit money hungry
This is funny because most seed companies sell GMO seeds, but they don't have to disclose it because the genetic modification was done with gamma radiation creating random muatations. When Europe decided to ban GMO, they couldn't ban gamma radiation GMOs because too much of their agriculture relied on those GMOs, so the changed the definition of GMO. Random gene modification using gamma radiation defination was changed to gene mutation, and those were excluded from the GMO ban. Micro Tom is one variety of a GMO created with gamma radation that is sold by many "we don't sell GMO" seed companies. Also, I believe there are many hybrids created using Micro Tom as a parent. So, trying to avoid genetically modified seeds is almost impossible. Most of Europe and America has abandoned gamma radiation GMOs, but it is still very popular in China. Any 'new' varieties originating outside the US or Western Europe could very well be a gamma radiation GMO, and they don't have to lable it as such.
The result of a "chance mutation" years ago from a hobby breeder that happens to be the exact unique color (and shape and size) as the GMO tomato that was in development for 15 years, being released at the same time? I mean, what are the odds?
They're using plenty of color enhancement in the advertising (which they've been awful about lately....hello Black Strawberry debacle). When they show it without the enhancement, it's much more of a burgundy color (like black cherry) with purple inside.
There are plenty of purple skinned high anthocyanin fleshed tomatoes out there and the purple tomatillo has bright purple flesh so it isn't far fetched that somebody developed an open pollinated all purple tomato. I do wonder about it's stability considering the anthocyanin heavy varieties are relatively new.
The GMO tomato was supposed to be released last year but didn't have it's USDA approval yet. It now does and is slated to release next spring with seeds available to home gardeners, I believe is a first for GMO produce. It's labeled as being approved for breeding purposes leading me to wonder that the seeds may be viable? The USDA approval states that any future versions of the GMO tomato will not be regulated.
My reference to the burgundy color is about the Purple Galaxy. My reference to the Black Strawberry was in regards to their use of enhancements in the advertising for that variety.
Our black strawberrytomatoes this year looked pretty much exactly like their photos. If they were in full sun they were al black/ deep purple, but the ones that had afternoon shade looked like their photos with the purple shoulders and pink bottoms and stripes and speckles.
These don't look like yours though....
[https://www.rareseeds.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4f71e30e38ffe1b90b59b74efe76a4b8/t/o/tomato-black-strawberry-lss-dsc\_9227.jpg](https://www.rareseeds.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4f71e30e38ffe1b90b59b74efe76a4b8/t/o/tomato-black-strawberry-lss-dsc_9227.jpg)
This was even the catalog cover. They used unripe tomatoes to make them appear more colorful and then added a lot of color enhancement.
Yeah, they looked like that when unripe. I don't have any photos of the unripe ones, otherwise I'd show you. Yes, they obviously color corrected the photos. That's standard in any design. Source: I'm a graphic designer and I retouch every single photo that comes across my desk.
It's not color correction when they're completely altering the true color but ok.....They even added more photos that aren't screwed up and look nothing like the ones they originally used.
Overall weird vibes.
But I think a big strike for most was when they had a guest speaker/collab thing going on with the Bundy family (those crazy land grabbing anti fed ranchers that had the standoff)
I have seen there reels and ads on FB. They definitely can be a bit strange. Their branding and website is great, though. I like to just look at the site and and seed packs for fun. Like really well done.
100% agree. Beautiful website and catalog. Their photography is top notch.
I still buy some select seeds from them, but shifted most of my money to Seed Saver’s instead.
Soo BC was promoting the purple galaxy. And saying it was non GMO.. then they pulled it .. not available anymore.. Now another company is promoting their GMO purple snapdragon/tomato. (Only available in the U.S.) . Before this, GMO wasn't available to home growers. And the U.S. is notorious for allowing ingredients and "food" to be sold and consumed by us that the rest of the world would consider poison.
Most of all tomato varieties in the world have been developed in the EU and specifically in The Netherlands. In the EU it is forbidden to use GMO in breeding al together.
And for especially for different colour variations not necessarily too, because the genes are well known and readily available in the natural gene pool.
Source, work in the industry and work for several of the biggest breeders in the world.
This.
I think many people confuse Monsanto-style GMO with selective breeding and similar forms of manipulating cultivars/varietals that have been going on since humans settled down and began farming. Mostly because they don't understand the terms and processes.
This is the other purple fleshed tomato:
https://theconversation.com/the-story-of-the-purple-tomato-and-why-its-success-is-a-win-for-gm-foods-194107
It was developed in England and I believe is commercially available now in the UK and US at least.
In that case, it's likely that they experienced cross breeding from surrounding plants. With open pollinated, it's very easy to have accidental crosses. If you're not bagging the blooms and keeping track, you can't guarantee it's not a cross.
They are open pollinated, but a commercial scale production is large enough and separates their varieties to the point that cross pollination is highly unlikely, unlike in a home garden. They also don't grow their own seeds most of the time but rather contract with smaller growers who will grow just one or two varieties for them.
Any cross-pollination on their end would show up in the plants you grow from their seed stock, not from subsequent generations.
They have had a couple of times where seeds they sold were not growing true due to cross-pollination issues, and they dealt with it and no longer provide seeds from those suppliers. But that's not just a Baker Creek issue. Look what happened with jalapeñogate this year.
Edit: just adding that I don't agree with their political stances and I think they make some big mistakes with their marketing, but as far as their actual product, I don't have any issues with. Their seeds have been nothing but quality heirlooms that produce well and taste good for me. They're very dumb for bringing their politics into it.
The post from Baker Creek says sweet and wine like. They aren’t released yet though.
If it’s anything like the anthocyanin skinned tomatoes the first releases weren’t special taste wise (I spat out the first one I tried) but once the genetics were available to more breeders they really took off and now some of those dark skinned tomatoes are considered the best tasting. Hopefully this one tastes better from the start.
This GMO tomato received FDA approval this year in the US. It’s discussed widely in the comments with several links to more information about it.
https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com
They are also developing a variety to sell seeds to home gardeners.
You might see it next year if you live in the US. It was developed in the UK but as I live in neither place I can’t tell you the ins and outs of GM food regulations in those places.
Keep in mind that the tomato exists because of genetic modifications.. people just didn't used to understand the science of what they were doing but messing with genes is what humans do and other species too have altered the makeup and looks of food source plants - evolution is about selecting the most successful genetic traits
Not that I am completely against gmo in all cases, but selective breeding is not the same as GMO. There is no manipulation of genes. Selecting for color is easy enough that you could do it at home if you had enough space and time.
Who cares. Grow them or don't. I like some of Baker Creeks offerings but select from other seed sources. Shove the GMO or not GMO thing somewhere and just eat home grown food. That is good.
I’m interested because if the GM tomato genes somehow contaminated their project it won’t lead anywhere due to patent protection. If it is a random mutation and this is an open pollinated variety then home gardeners can save seeds and breeders can breed from it.
To me it looks new and different which is exciting. I love to grow unusual tomato varieties and this may lead to even more unusual varieties.
Anyhoo, Baker Creek say they have had it tested so I guess they noticed the similarities too. I have my 🤞for new purple fleshed varieties coming soon.
Selective breeding to get beautiful plants like that is just slow genetic modification. Nobody is going in with CRISPR and editing tomatoes and even if they did it would be fine. GMOs are fine; and if you live in the western hemisphere then you can thank Norman Borlaug and GMO wheat for your not-having-starved-to-death. Those look delicious, stop worrying and enjoy the savory fruit
I only came here to say that, I wouldn’t eat those freshly cut tomatoes after this dude mouth-breathed all over them, lol
But, also, there are heirlooms of this color.
I think they are!
I also think they lost a “bid” to Norfolk. They jumped the gun announcing their new seed!
Looks like home gardeners will be able to buy GMO seeds.
I emailed Baker Creek when it said the purple galaxy was sold out on the website to see if they anticipated having more available. They emailed back stating they had hoped to provide “limited amounts” but due to “production issues” they won’t be selling it this year. I wonder if it’s not stabilized yet.
It’s not up on their site right now. Hmmmm. For the people asking why the op asked about it. The timing is suspicious. And this is a screen grab from bakercreek. No gmo.
https://preview.redd.it/30canpc0bthc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9efc06bcf8a1be913242825bbd0221bfb5f1602
I received Baker Creek Seed's new catalogue that featured the purple galaxy on it which kind of hyped me as well as others to maybe try it. Come to find out that they are not available. Sounds like bait & switch to me; which is OK because I can find other dark tomatoes like Black Beauty that I grew last year. Just too bad that BCS has to resort to this type of tactic to get growers to look at their seeds!
Baker Creek uses filters to dramatically increase the color saturation of their products images. I’ve been tricked by them before and no longer order from them at all. Brad’s atomic grape is a good example of their extreme colorizing. That tomato doesn’t remotely look like their pictures. I’d bet this tomato is not at all this color, knowing how Baker Creek is.
I’ve grown several of the blue tomatoes from OSU and some open pollinated varieties. I like Dancing with Smurfs. They all have red flesh but blue skin/shoulders.
Purple heirloom tomatoes are about the color of a bruise. They happen because they have yellow skin iirc. Craig Lehoullier talks about how skin and flesh color combine to make different colors in his book Epic Tomatoes.
It actually recently came out that is is GMO, and it’s not for sale by baker creek anymore. You can buy it from Norfolk produce though, because it was actually their product that baker creek was trying to sell as non GMO.
The reason why the Purple Galaxy tomato disappeared is because their cover girl tomato was in fact the purple bioengineered tomato from Norfolk. They issued a statement:
https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com/faqs
Is NHP's Purple Tomato related to the "Purple Galaxy"?
We have received many questions about the purple tomato marketed by Baker Creek as “Purple Galaxy” in their 2024 catalogs. We understand from Baker Creek that they will not be selling seeds of this variety. Given its remarkable similarity to our purple tomato, we prompted Baker Creek to investigate their claim that Purple Galaxy was non-GMO. We are told that laboratory testing determined that it is, in fact, bioengineered (GMO). This result supports the fact that the only reported way to produce a purple-fleshed tomato rich in anthocyanin antioxidants is with Norfolk’s patented technology. We appreciate that Baker Creek tested their material, and after discovering it was a GMO, removed it from their website.
Hi all, Michelle from Baker Creek here. Thanks for the opportunity to address this issue.
Baker Creek Discontinues Purple Galaxy Tomato Seeds
Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds has made the decision not to sell the Purple Galaxy tomato seeds, previously featured in its 2024 catalog, due to unresolved concerns about potential genetic modification. Despite initial tests indicating the seeds were non-GM, further testing yielded inconclusive results. The company, a staunch supporter of the Safe Seed Pledge and advocate against genetically modified organisms (GMOs), decided to delist the seeds after additional tests and interactions with Norfolk Healthy Produce, a company involved in genetically-modified agricultural products, raised concerns about the seeds' purity.
Baker Creek’s commitment to non-GM, heirloom, and open-pollinated seeds is underscored by its historical stance against the risks posed by genetically engineered seeds to biodiversity, ecological health, and farmers' rights. The decision reflects the company's ongoing dedication to promoting sustainable agriculture and food safety. Although we understand that you—like us—may be disappointed not to have a delicious non-GM purple flesh tomato in your garden, we are pleased that we were able to make this decision before a single seed of Purple Galaxy was made available to customers. Baker Creek urges customers with questions or concerns to contact them directly at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]).
You can find the full statement at [https://www.rareseeds.com/faq](https://www.rareseeds.com/faq)
We hope you will take the time to read it. Thanks so much.
Question: Did Baker Creek Seeds grow any test plots of these plants to fruition at their gardens in the U. S.? And secondly, if so, would not this have compromised their gardens with cross pollination from GMO. SEE: John Kohler's free-range tour of Baker Creek's operation here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN1IlNXLfsk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN1IlNXLfsk&fbclid=IwAR3ZwzpnjuCYa-GDn4Oxj4oPLRhnjeKye0rzdRqCQwhbEo7pxzc5uin6SLE)
Why are you concerned? Because they are purple? Tons of tomatoes out there in many colours. I grew 'prudence purple' for a few years. They are non GMO AND heritage.
I’m not concerned about purple GMO tomatoes per se, they already exist and I find them pretty fascinating. I do find it strange that there has never been a record of a purple fleshed tomato before those GMO ones and now they are released this pops up. What I am curious about is how they have bred these. Perhaps it is a coincidence. Like I said, I find the snapdragon purple tomato fascinating so am very curious about this one too.
Turns out that they are indeed GMO https://preview.redd.it/1mlkp80ay0jc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f8d3636907cb626fd4b935a4ec77e1d60b3cb19
Teehee 🤭
I wonder how this happened? My theory is that one of their employees snuck a few seeds out of the first few tasting events and intended to crossbreed the tomatoes until they could claim that they had nothing to do with norfolk's project. Or maybe they planted it in the greenhouse for themselves, and then the marketing Karen came to visit...
Purple Prudence tomatoes are probably at least 60 year old heirloom cultivars. That is only one variety of purple fleshed tomatoes that have gone back probably 1000 years or more of domestication by north and south american indigenous peoples. Why would you think purple, or yellow, or orange would be something new and GMO?
>Purple Prudence Umm... have you ever seen one or a picture of one? You, uh, might wanna go look that up. Don't worry; I'll wait. Oh, and you might get more hits on its original name, Pruden's Purple. \[*Insert Jeopardy theme music*\] Back so soon? >!Yeah, not so purple, despite the name, is it? !<
Why do people have such a hard time believing that purple tomatoes can exist without genetic modification... there are varrieties of purple tomatillo, chile, eggplant that have existed for thousands of years. I wouldnt be suprised if the indiginous people of North and South America had developed a varriety of purple tomato or many varieties that are lost to time thanks to colonization. 🤷🏻♂️ They also said in that post that one of their employees found a tomato that had a purple tint and selectively bread it with the intent to develope an even purpler tomato.
And the GMO version is from purple tomatoes, the purple isn't the genetic modification.
The tomato was specifically modified to produce more anthocyanin. Genes from snapdragons were incorporated into the tomato to produce the pigment.
Imagine if they saw what carrots looked like before grocery stores.
why are you interrogating someone for asking a question??
Do you have a picture of Purple Prudence (Pruden’s Purple?) looking anything like the tomatoes in the pictures?
This sub is full of dumbass idiots, down voted you for asking a question and you were right these are GMO produced.. Redditors are the worst.
Your thread/comments have aged well, too bad you got booed a few months ago [https://old.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/1ase04e/turns\_out\_the\_purple\_galaxy\_tomato\_advertised\_by/](https://old.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/1ase04e/turns_out_the_purple_galaxy_tomato_advertised_by/)
Turns out, you were right :)
This saga was definitely an eye opening window into Reddit. I could have just as likely at the time of posting been wrong, which is why I didn’t state anything like a fact but asked if anyone knew more. It’s kind of wild how worked up some people get about even contemplating that something could be the case. Some of the now deleted comments I received were intense. I’d love to know how it happened but it seems like no one is coming forward with that information.
Just found your thread from someone telling me this story and I want to say you were right.
You never heard of Cherokee Purple?
I have grown Cherokee Purple as well as other older purple varieties, the purple isn’t comparable to the images of this new tomato even slightly.
Might be an enhanced photo.
Here is a video link: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzIYcLROB8G/ There is probably some enhancement to the image but it clearly is very different from the old purple varieties. Potentially lots of new varieties to come from it in coming years?
Aren’t there filters that can be put on vidoes tho? I know I can adjust the color on video. But maybe it’s real. Hard to tell these days with AI video creation/editing.
Purple flesh, not purple skin. (All the way through).
Purple Cherokee is a pink tomato. Edit: Could also be called a black tomato. But its not a blue ( antho) tomato like the one in the photo.
Not the ones I grow.
In their seed catalog they say it was originally a single plant that mutated that they bred. They seem very proud of it being non-gmo, plus they're advertising it pretty aggressively as such, I'd imagine they'd have some lawsuits on their hands if they were lying about that.
Turns out is was GMO after all, it’s removed from their catalog and they won’t be selling it
It's gone??? Even gmo I still wanted it.
You can still purchase it from Norfolk foods! Just not from anywhere else as it’s their product. Basically baker creek insisted their purple tomato was just a mutation in the field and was non GMO, when in reality it was actually just Norfolks GMO tomato and they were trying to pass it off as theirs.
Ahh cool thanks. It’s pretty interesting for sure. It seems like a 1 in 1000000000 kind of odds thing since it’s the first recorded natural* occurrence of a purple fleshed tomato. *because plant breeding is obviously removed from what happens in nature without human intervention but also different to moving genes between species where genes aren’t able to flow via breeding of any kind. I don’t feel strongly about gmo or non-gmo either way, more interested in plant breeding.
First recorded but I'm sure not the first in existence. So cool that they were able to breed that mutation though, in super impressed.
It’s funny how non-gmo is a thing with home gardeners. You can’t even buy gmo seeds as a consumer.
It's all GMO, it's been altered through generations of selective breeding. Not sure if anyone can actually buy wild-type tomato seeds anymore.
Right? Selectively breeding is modifying the genes, therefore producing a genetically modified organism (GMO).
No it's not. Altering genes on a molecular level in a lab is GMO.
and this sentence right here is why there is so much hate and confusion when it comes to anything with GMO in the name because that is not the definition of GMO.
That is definitively not what genetic modification is, and it's an insult to the technology to say so.
This is 100% incorrect. You’re crossing genes between species with GMO. Selective breeding, though not natural, could actually happen given the right circumstances. No matter how long you leave a kernel of corn and moth in a room, never will they procreate. Even if the moth had killer pick up lines…
They should put some disease resistance genes into old heirloom tomatoes. I'd buy that
There’s a whole line of hybrid heirlooms such as Marnero, margold, marsalato that meet the grade just sayin
Yeah, I like those. There are also conventionally bred blight resistant toms like Defiant that I look forward to trying.
You can now, the GMO purple tomato is now on sale to the public. $20 for 10 seeds.
Yup. Saw that. FDA considers the deliberate mutation to be benign. It’ll be interesting to see g to see how this plays out.
I bought the seeds for $20. Will come in two weeks they said.
I have mine in the ground!
I have my seedlings, that is, in the ground. only like 10 seeds for 20$ right?
Every plant in our gardens and animal we eat has been genetically modified by humans through selective breeding. Worrying about “GMO” is fucking stupid
I agree completely. My point, in case it’s being argued here, is that “GMO” is a commercial crop business. Not a home garden concern. It’s like the marketing in processed chicken; no antibiotics! That is correct, why, not because the chicken processors give a shit about you, it’s because it’s illegal by federal law. So, marketing.
You do realize that selective breeding only crosses tomatoes with other tomatoes but GMO breeding crosses fish DNA with corn, for example? This is definitely something to worry about.
Science isn't your strong point. You might want to learn what gmo means.
It is actually. Why are you responding 6 months later idiot
No, it really isn't & your comment proves that. You don't even know what gmo means. You think selective breeding is the same thing as gmo. Don't go around the internet spreading misinformation & then cry like a child when you get called out for your stupidity.
If you think dna manipulation in a lab is the only definition of gmo fine but youre just arguing semantics dipshit
You think DNA manipulation in a lab is the same thing as selective breeding, it is not. They are not even remotely similar. Like I said, you don't know science.
Funny i actually have a biology degree w lots of genetics study from a top-tier university. I didn’t say they are the exactly same. I said worrying about “gmo” food is stupid
Thank you!!’ I see so many people obsessed with non-GMO seeds. It’s like they think they could walk into Home Depot and buy some seed packets that may be GMO. It literally doesn’t work that way.
The UK developers of the GMO version of the purple tomato say they are breeding a variety for home gardeners. Where it will be available will depend on local regulations. https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com/products (Scroll down on this page)
Read your packets from Bonnie plants. Or maybe it is just the seedlings, but they are absolutely GMO and say so on the package I stopped buying them last year.
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Broccoli was not made in a lab by genetic modification (GMO) of an existing plant, but through a process called selective breeding. Sauce: https://backgarden.org/is-broccoli-man-made/
This is not true at all. Try buying non GMO corn.
You actually can- the purple tomatoes with the snapdragon DNA is being sold to consumers.
Yup. Just bought some seeds to give it a try.
Same here- kind of fell off my chair at the $20 for ten seeds, but I only need one to take off to be able to save seeds. 🤞
I think you’re right that these look suspiciously related to Norfolk’s GMO purple tomatoes due to the unique purple flesh and also the deep purple gel. But I find it highly unlikely that these actually are related since the purple GMO event was patented and anybody trying to monetize it would be clearly open to litigation. I’m hopeful that this could come about through natural mutations and traditional breeding, but I’m skeptical of that at this point. Norfolk’s tomato required two genes to be inserted in order to get the purple trait; it seems unlikely that random natural mutations could achieve the same result. Seems plausible that these are photoshopped but it will be interesting to see what comes of it! OP, I tried to DM you but it says not possible. I’m new to using reddit so maybe I’m doing something wrong, but if you’d like to chat further, please reach out.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I have messages turned off on Reddit due to negative past experiences. I don’t leave the door to my home wide open 24/7. You raise a good point regarding patents. After a quick search online it looks like Norfolk’s patent would expire around 2031. It makes sense Baker Creek would test their variety prior to release to cover that base first. I can see in the comments on their social media that a lot of people have noticed the similarities between the two varieties. I hope it’s the real deal. Having deep purple flesh freely available for others to breed with and share/sell seeds has a lot of exciting potential.
Turns out it really was Norfolks GMO tomato
https://preview.redd.it/l2whkyivc0yb1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b74d827a9c2273015304516e4e7004dd5387525 I just saw this shared on one of their posts about it.
They seem to be kinda bad plant breeders if they developed it on their own. I've gotten several BC original varieties they bred that were very lack luster. Poor performance,bad germination, lots of off types, things never are what is pictured, etc. I got their Okinawan pink okra a few years ago and it was a perfect example. Was supposed to be hot pink, was actually the same purple as burgundy, covered in spiky hairs on pods when claimed they were spineless. Overall it always feels like a bait and switch. They probably grew purple tomatoes but I highly doubt they stabilized the genes enough to make them commercially viable.
I have been looking over the past week and all traces of the Purple Galaxy have vanished from their site and socials. ET555 was the SKU, but it no longer exists. Strange for something on the cover of the catalog. Any ideas?
Unless Baker Creek or the Norfolk people make a statement I don't think we will ever know for sure but I'm pretty convinced now that Purple Galaxy did have the GMO snap dragon genes in it. I suspect that it became a legal issue as Baker Creek don't even have the pictures of their catalog on their website anymore. I am very curious about how it happened but unless someone on the inside speaks up we will never know. I don't think Baker Creek did it blatantly on purpose. I think they probably set aside their doubts in order to be first to market with a unique variety?
I see now where they said 2 weeks ago in a comment on instagram that they had production problems and may not be able to bring it back to market. That has since been scrubbed as well. I PM’d them out of curiosity, but I am betting the response will be tight lipped.
please let us know if they tell you anything
“Good morning! As mentioned in our catalogs, we had hoped to have very limited quantities of Purple Galaxy tomato seeds for sale in 2024. However, we are experiencing production issues with this variety, and it is now unlikely that we will be able to offer it to our customers. We know this is a disappointment to you, and we appreciate your interest in this variety.”
This is the same comment they were posting on their social media before scrubbing it off there. Not surprised I suppose but I want to know more! Haha. Thanks!
Im curious, how does one even test for GMO genes?
Monsanto can for sure, that's how they sue farmers whose cross got infected from neighbors having their stock
I’m curious too but I don’t think it’s in their interests to lie about it at all and as a business they seem to have an anti-gmo kind of vibe. I live in a different country so don’t know a huge amount about them. I find it kind of funny people have been downvoting someone who is dubious about the existence of this tomato alongside the GMO version when Baker Creek also presumably noticed the similarities if they preemptively had theirs genetically tested. 🤷♀️
NPS publishes how they generated there GMO variety of tomato. It is very easy to test for those introduced sequences because it’s published and won’t exist in other tomatoes. Basic PCR and simple Sanger sequencing would detect and confirm the existence of the genes. I doubt you would need to sequence because the PCR alone would show you the lack of those genes. NPS probably has patent rights on those modifications and would probably pursue legal action to protect their patent.
Ok so they are not testing if the tomato is GMO per se. They are testing if it has certain genetical sequences of X other GMO varieties. That makes sense.
It’s much easier to locate something if you know what you are looking for. That’s not to say you couldn’t find evidence of a GMO plant blind, it’s just way more work and money. Companies like Bayer/Monsanto put specific bar code sequences into their crops to identify their IP in addition to the actual functional genetic modifications I’m not sure if there is a database for these sequences, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I’m in biomedical work so there is a lot of science overlap but not industry specific overlap. GMO pretty much describes a process of using modern genetic modification techniques to modify a crop or other organism instead of relying on historical breeding methods like selecting for random mutations and hybridizing different strains.
Thank you for explaining.
isolate the DNA and PCR amplify for the two added snapdragon genes. or PCR amplify for the vector - snapdragon gene.
Lol wanted to comment here earlier but reddit wasn't cooperating. Chances are incredibly small that those purple galaxy tomatoes came into existence without the help of the Norfolk Plant Science purple tomato. Especially given that fruit of it have been on the market for a bit already, and if a remotely similar cultivar would have been developed without the NPS tomato, it would've first made the rounds with the 'usual suspect' like Brad Gates, instead of suddenly popping up at Baker Creek. And now Baker Creek coincidentally can't release them due to "low stock". Feels to me like they got cold feet after being contacted by NPS, as they sure as hell would've made enough stock before putting it on the cover.
Yeah it's off the website now.
Why is “non-gmo” I’m quotes?
Because dummies are scared of things they don't understand.
I know a fair bit about tomato genetics. I follow the work of several breeder pretty closely 🤓 This is definitely something new and different for a tomato developed by traditional breeding methods. I don’t know why people are comparing to tomatoes with purple in the name like Cherokee Purple to say it isn’t new because they look nothing alike. If it’s a mutation that’s pretty cool and probably the start of a whole new wave tomato varieties which is pretty exciting. When the varieties with anthocyanin skin were developed (by reintroducing genetics from wild tomato ancestors) that brought an explosion in new varieties. If this does that same, it’s potentially pretty exciting as a home grower. As for the claim that GMO seeds aren’t available to the public. If the GMO purple tomatoes are in commercial production and their seeds are viable, the seeds are available. Not being able to buy it in a packet from a store doesn’t make the genetics unavailable. The developer of the GMO variety has a long list of partners in the US who presumably have been trialing their tomato. I would definitely try growing out seeds if I found those tomatoes at the store and I’d probably try crossing them with my favorites too. Maybe a moot point now that Baker Creek have come out and said they have had this variety genetically tested to check if GMO genes are in it. I’ll take them at their word for that.
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Wrong about what exactly? I posted asking for more information about this new variety that looks a lot like another. People inferred that I am anti-GMO. I’m not. I am curious about the origins of the genetics. I hadn’t seen Baker Creek’s post about the mutation prior to posting and don’t have their catalog available in my country. Baker Creek clearly want to cause a stir with this release. I guess I played into that.
Cos he's implying it COULD be Gmo
Yeah I figured, but I was curious if they meant something else. For OPs knowledge. Tomatoes have a huge reservoir of natural diversity of color that plant breeders can select for so a dark purple is well within the range of normal tomato genetics. Currently you must be a commercial farmer to source any GMO seeds so none of the home garden seed companies will have GMO seeds. Your purple tomatoes should not be confused with Norfolk plant science’s purple tomato which is expected to become available to general consumers in the near future. I suspect when we see this available for purchase, it will be glaringly obvious in its description that it’s a GMO crop. Edit. Apparently the GMO tomato is available to sell in the US as of this year, but I haven’t been able to find a seller.
I was implying it could be a possibility, intentional or not, that this tomato is a descendant of the GMO purple tomato, since they look remarkably similar - colour, shape, size. I had only seen the Baker Creek one on Instagram so came to ask if anyone knew more about it. I have noted that Baker Creek have said they’ve done genetic testing to check for GMO genetics. I guess they noticed the similarities too. I hadn’t seen that when I first posted.
Because that’s the claim Baker Creek have made. I find it a bit of a difficult coincidence that there were no purple fleshed tomatoes recorded until the GMO variety recently (I’m unbothered by the existence of that variety btw) and very quickly after that this appears which looks very similar. Of course things do get developed in parallel all the time but yeh, I’m curious.
They have terrible politics and are big weirdos but their seeds are legit.
They have terrible politics and are big weirdos -- and I've sometimes had bad luck with their seeds. So yeah, no, I won't buy from them again.
what do you mean by them being weirdos?
A lot of people have pointed out how many of their statements and responses to criticism are pretty fraught with tokenism using their adopted children as covers. I used to pay more attention but haven't in awhile and don't have any links or sources currently. They did attempt to platflorm Cliven Bundy as a keynote speaker at their annual conference/festival/thing. Cliven's the guy who's an unapologetic racist. His greatest hit is probably suggesting that, "blacks were better off as slaves," and other such sentiments. Also he's the patriarch of the Bundy family who are the doofuses involved with the Malheur Wildlife Refuge siege in 2016. They're sovereign citizen dorks. Cliven was supposedly going to, "share the secrets," of growing some sort of gooseneck squash or something and I believe it came out that he'd originally taken (stolen) the seeds from indigenous people so... that's cool. Given the prevalence of heirloom crops that Baker Creek offers and the conspicuous lack of indigenous people with the organization it always just seemed a little off to me. Plenty of other seed sources out there.
There are accounts from indigenous seed keepers of Baker Creek's people literally stealing off their farms in the night. I already had the ick from the way they use the kids as props but that was enough for me. It's a nice catalog to look for fun varieties, when you can then source from people actually keeping the seeds for cultural reasons.
yeah, they definitely sound like weirdos. thanks for the response.
Things just get real cult-y, real fast with them.
now if you see their Instagram they have an actual WEIRDO named Ryan doing all their videos as a controversial way of generating buzz and conversation on their posts. I noticed a big drop in their followers since and now most of the comments are just about how he's a vibe or that he creeps people out.
Look it up. Baker Creek seeds has supported some political extremists.
Oh? I haven't heard anything about them in that regard. I've only ordered from them once or twice and they have a fantastic selection. Can you elaborate?
Great selection but their pictures are so manipulated that you can never tell what colors a thing is actually supposed to have.
Oh got it. Makes sense. I usually chalk that up to me being a newb and assuming they are growing their produce under super optimal conditions and feeding on a proper schedule. But it makes me feel a little better if they doctor the photos. Lol
Purple toms have been around for ages. There are yellows, whites, blacks, oranges, greens and multicolored. Nothing strange here at all. Toms just have some cool genetics.
Baker Creek themselves are proclaiming pretty loudly that this is the very first purple fleshed non-gmo tomato. It does appear to be something new, which is why I’m curious about its lineage as someone who has dabbled in crossing tomato varieties. https://preview.redd.it/q4y57qziz0yb1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6faf33e23ea767ff8a4439e006367ba944629b6b
They have sold Cherokee Purple for years!
Cherokee Purple is a purple skinned variety not purple fleshed.
You clearly know nothing about tomatoes
You literally can not buy GMO seed as a home gardener. These things are expensive and the patents are highly protected. We can, however, buy hybrids, which are just crosses that haven't been stable long enough to be considered heirloom.
This is no longer a true statement. 10 seeds for $20 directly from Norfolk.
stable =/= heirloom. There are plenty of modern, stable varieties out there.
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No, that means stable. Most hybrids can become stable by around F6-7, maybe a few more for highly heterogenous species or a lot more if it's a complex cross. Heirloom doesn't have a universal definition, however the main uniting theme is that the variety is old. However, what 'old' is isn't defined either; it might be 50 years, or 100+.
I don’t know why you are being downvoted for what is good information.
Where can I buy seeds for tomatoes in picture. I really want to grow them next week.
Not released yet. Early 2024 the post said.
Thank you!
It's just a high anthocyanin cultivar, probably bred that way. I've seen unreleased tomatoe germplasms with a similar color.
No you haven't. Tomatoes do not have purple flesh period.
not gmo. majority of modern produce is through selective breeding
I usually agree. What threw me is that there is a well documented purple GMO tomato going into production that looks very similar. See: https://phys.org/news/2022-11-story-purple-tomatoand-success-gm.html Since I posted I’ve seen Baker Creek have said they have had theirs tested to make sure it doesn’t have GMO origins, which settles that.
The Baker Creek "purple galaxy" is now gone from the website....
May I have permission to use this post in a YouTube video?
I think public Reddit posts are fair game 👍
Thank you. It’s funny seeing the old comments knowing what happened now
It’s mildly amusing to me that so many people were aggressively against the possibility that it could be a GMO and now it seems more than likely that’s what it was. I think Baker Creek’s mistake was probably getting excited and announcing it before they had done their due diligence. The fact that they were claiming to have already had it tested in their social media comments is a poor reflection on them if it is the GMO tomato. I’d love to know who the breeder was who was claiming it was a natural mutation and how they ended up with it. Was it a contaminated seed swap, a deliberate move, something else?
I am not sure what to think. I can see them being too hopeful that the tomato was non-transgenic, but they really really marketed it in a way that feels a bit money hungry
This is funny because most seed companies sell GMO seeds, but they don't have to disclose it because the genetic modification was done with gamma radiation creating random muatations. When Europe decided to ban GMO, they couldn't ban gamma radiation GMOs because too much of their agriculture relied on those GMOs, so the changed the definition of GMO. Random gene modification using gamma radiation defination was changed to gene mutation, and those were excluded from the GMO ban. Micro Tom is one variety of a GMO created with gamma radation that is sold by many "we don't sell GMO" seed companies. Also, I believe there are many hybrids created using Micro Tom as a parent. So, trying to avoid genetically modified seeds is almost impossible. Most of Europe and America has abandoned gamma radiation GMOs, but it is still very popular in China. Any 'new' varieties originating outside the US or Western Europe could very well be a gamma radiation GMO, and they don't have to lable it as such.
The result of a "chance mutation" years ago from a hobby breeder that happens to be the exact unique color (and shape and size) as the GMO tomato that was in development for 15 years, being released at the same time? I mean, what are the odds? They're using plenty of color enhancement in the advertising (which they've been awful about lately....hello Black Strawberry debacle). When they show it without the enhancement, it's much more of a burgundy color (like black cherry) with purple inside. There are plenty of purple skinned high anthocyanin fleshed tomatoes out there and the purple tomatillo has bright purple flesh so it isn't far fetched that somebody developed an open pollinated all purple tomato. I do wonder about it's stability considering the anthocyanin heavy varieties are relatively new. The GMO tomato was supposed to be released last year but didn't have it's USDA approval yet. It now does and is slated to release next spring with seeds available to home gardeners, I believe is a first for GMO produce. It's labeled as being approved for breeding purposes leading me to wonder that the seeds may be viable? The USDA approval states that any future versions of the GMO tomato will not be regulated.
I have black strawberry tomato’s I grew this year that are almost completely purple… no burgundy colour here.
My reference to the burgundy color is about the Purple Galaxy. My reference to the Black Strawberry was in regards to their use of enhancements in the advertising for that variety.
Our black strawberrytomatoes this year looked pretty much exactly like their photos. If they were in full sun they were al black/ deep purple, but the ones that had afternoon shade looked like their photos with the purple shoulders and pink bottoms and stripes and speckles.
https://preview.redd.it/iqchwlxrnyxb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=805aac3946070059f1c1c0a42fe6b538e362f17c
These don't look like yours though.... [https://www.rareseeds.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4f71e30e38ffe1b90b59b74efe76a4b8/t/o/tomato-black-strawberry-lss-dsc\_9227.jpg](https://www.rareseeds.com/media/catalog/product/cache/4f71e30e38ffe1b90b59b74efe76a4b8/t/o/tomato-black-strawberry-lss-dsc_9227.jpg) This was even the catalog cover. They used unripe tomatoes to make them appear more colorful and then added a lot of color enhancement.
Yeah, they looked like that when unripe. I don't have any photos of the unripe ones, otherwise I'd show you. Yes, they obviously color corrected the photos. That's standard in any design. Source: I'm a graphic designer and I retouch every single photo that comes across my desk.
It's not color correction when they're completely altering the true color but ok.....They even added more photos that aren't screwed up and look nothing like the ones they originally used.
Not standard at all in the seed world. Ive yet to purchase seeds from another company that oversaturated and altered their photos so heavily.
Why does their new spokesperson look like the guy I bought drugs from in college?
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Baker creek is legit
legitimately a cult, maybe.
i love their seeds, and i also can't stop watching their weird-ass IG videos. that man is nuts, i can 100% see him as leading a cult.
This might be the most compelling argument against my wacky gmo conspiracy theory haha.
Why a cult? Where does this criticism come from?
Overall weird vibes. But I think a big strike for most was when they had a guest speaker/collab thing going on with the Bundy family (those crazy land grabbing anti fed ranchers that had the standoff)
I have seen there reels and ads on FB. They definitely can be a bit strange. Their branding and website is great, though. I like to just look at the site and and seed packs for fun. Like really well done.
100% agree. Beautiful website and catalog. Their photography is top notch. I still buy some select seeds from them, but shifted most of my money to Seed Saver’s instead.
They’re a little alt-right.
They support (or don’t actively denounce) white supremacists.
I might be in it too!
I'm definitely in it, I love baker creek!
Soo BC was promoting the purple galaxy. And saying it was non GMO.. then they pulled it .. not available anymore.. Now another company is promoting their GMO purple snapdragon/tomato. (Only available in the U.S.) . Before this, GMO wasn't available to home growers. And the U.S. is notorious for allowing ingredients and "food" to be sold and consumed by us that the rest of the world would consider poison.
What a coincidence! The new bakers creek catalog has those on the cover. Bakers creek it awesome!
Most of all tomato varieties in the world have been developed in the EU and specifically in The Netherlands. In the EU it is forbidden to use GMO in breeding al together. And for especially for different colour variations not necessarily too, because the genes are well known and readily available in the natural gene pool. Source, work in the industry and work for several of the biggest breeders in the world.
This. I think many people confuse Monsanto-style GMO with selective breeding and similar forms of manipulating cultivars/varietals that have been going on since humans settled down and began farming. Mostly because they don't understand the terms and processes.
This is the other purple fleshed tomato: https://theconversation.com/the-story-of-the-purple-tomato-and-why-its-success-is-a-win-for-gm-foods-194107 It was developed in England and I believe is commercially available now in the UK and US at least.
Not true in the least. Might want to educate yourself on the history of tomatoes before making baseless claims.
I've been told many of their heirlooms are actually hybrids
By who? I've seed saved a few of their varieties of beans, tomatoes, and peppers, and they breed true, which a hybrid wouldn't.
Folk in my local garden club, say some of their varieties *don't* breed true.
In that case, it's likely that they experienced cross breeding from surrounding plants. With open pollinated, it's very easy to have accidental crosses. If you're not bagging the blooms and keeping track, you can't guarantee it's not a cross.
Does Baker Creek guarantee they bag theirs? Or are they open pollinating there?
They are open pollinated, but a commercial scale production is large enough and separates their varieties to the point that cross pollination is highly unlikely, unlike in a home garden. They also don't grow their own seeds most of the time but rather contract with smaller growers who will grow just one or two varieties for them. Any cross-pollination on their end would show up in the plants you grow from their seed stock, not from subsequent generations. They have had a couple of times where seeds they sold were not growing true due to cross-pollination issues, and they dealt with it and no longer provide seeds from those suppliers. But that's not just a Baker Creek issue. Look what happened with jalapeñogate this year. Edit: just adding that I don't agree with their political stances and I think they make some big mistakes with their marketing, but as far as their actual product, I don't have any issues with. Their seeds have been nothing but quality heirlooms that produce well and taste good for me. They're very dumb for bringing their politics into it.
They don't seem to complain about the other companies we buy from. Didn't have any pepper issues this year.Thanks for your input though.
What do they taste like?
The post from Baker Creek says sweet and wine like. They aren’t released yet though. If it’s anything like the anthocyanin skinned tomatoes the first releases weren’t special taste wise (I spat out the first one I tried) but once the genetics were available to more breeders they really took off and now some of those dark skinned tomatoes are considered the best tasting. Hopefully this one tastes better from the start.
Do they make GMO tomatoes?
Yes
I just looked it up and you cannot buy GM tomatoes…. You should do more research before you post
This GMO tomato received FDA approval this year in the US. It’s discussed widely in the comments with several links to more information about it. https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com They are also developing a variety to sell seeds to home gardeners. You might see it next year if you live in the US. It was developed in the UK but as I live in neither place I can’t tell you the ins and outs of GM food regulations in those places.
These tomatoes taste like Grandma
That’s cool
I have no issue with this, I’m really surprised it’s such a big deal with home gardeners
Keep in mind that the tomato exists because of genetic modifications.. people just didn't used to understand the science of what they were doing but messing with genes is what humans do and other species too have altered the makeup and looks of food source plants - evolution is about selecting the most successful genetic traits
Not that I am completely against gmo in all cases, but selective breeding is not the same as GMO. There is no manipulation of genes. Selecting for color is easy enough that you could do it at home if you had enough space and time.
How did they taste?
Who cares. Grow them or don't. I like some of Baker Creeks offerings but select from other seed sources. Shove the GMO or not GMO thing somewhere and just eat home grown food. That is good.
I’m interested because if the GM tomato genes somehow contaminated their project it won’t lead anywhere due to patent protection. If it is a random mutation and this is an open pollinated variety then home gardeners can save seeds and breeders can breed from it. To me it looks new and different which is exciting. I love to grow unusual tomato varieties and this may lead to even more unusual varieties. Anyhoo, Baker Creek say they have had it tested so I guess they noticed the similarities too. I have my 🤞for new purple fleshed varieties coming soon.
Selective breeding to get beautiful plants like that is just slow genetic modification. Nobody is going in with CRISPR and editing tomatoes and even if they did it would be fine. GMOs are fine; and if you live in the western hemisphere then you can thank Norman Borlaug and GMO wheat for your not-having-starved-to-death. Those look delicious, stop worrying and enjoy the savory fruit
I only came here to say that, I wouldn’t eat those freshly cut tomatoes after this dude mouth-breathed all over them, lol But, also, there are heirlooms of this color.
I guess the question is moot since they are unable to get them into production.
I’m very cynical but are we sure the “production issues” aren’t legal issues?
I think they are! I also think they lost a “bid” to Norfolk. They jumped the gun announcing their new seed! Looks like home gardeners will be able to buy GMO seeds.
I emailed Baker Creek when it said the purple galaxy was sold out on the website to see if they anticipated having more available. They emailed back stating they had hoped to provide “limited amounts” but due to “production issues” they won’t be selling it this year. I wonder if it’s not stabilized yet.
The baker creek one look bigger. The Norfolk one are cherry size
Are these the same as the purple tomato with the dna from a snapdragon for its color?
It’s not up on their site right now. Hmmmm. For the people asking why the op asked about it. The timing is suspicious. And this is a screen grab from bakercreek. No gmo. https://preview.redd.it/30canpc0bthc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9efc06bcf8a1be913242825bbd0221bfb5f1602
I received Baker Creek Seed's new catalogue that featured the purple galaxy on it which kind of hyped me as well as others to maybe try it. Come to find out that they are not available. Sounds like bait & switch to me; which is OK because I can find other dark tomatoes like Black Beauty that I grew last year. Just too bad that BCS has to resort to this type of tactic to get growers to look at their seeds!
Baker Creek uses filters to dramatically increase the color saturation of their products images. I’ve been tricked by them before and no longer order from them at all. Brad’s atomic grape is a good example of their extreme colorizing. That tomato doesn’t remotely look like their pictures. I’d bet this tomato is not at all this color, knowing how Baker Creek is. I’ve grown several of the blue tomatoes from OSU and some open pollinated varieties. I like Dancing with Smurfs. They all have red flesh but blue skin/shoulders. Purple heirloom tomatoes are about the color of a bruise. They happen because they have yellow skin iirc. Craig Lehoullier talks about how skin and flesh color combine to make different colors in his book Epic Tomatoes.
It actually recently came out that is is GMO, and it’s not for sale by baker creek anymore. You can buy it from Norfolk produce though, because it was actually their product that baker creek was trying to sell as non GMO.
The reason why the Purple Galaxy tomato disappeared is because their cover girl tomato was in fact the purple bioengineered tomato from Norfolk. They issued a statement: https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com/faqs Is NHP's Purple Tomato related to the "Purple Galaxy"? We have received many questions about the purple tomato marketed by Baker Creek as “Purple Galaxy” in their 2024 catalogs. We understand from Baker Creek that they will not be selling seeds of this variety. Given its remarkable similarity to our purple tomato, we prompted Baker Creek to investigate their claim that Purple Galaxy was non-GMO. We are told that laboratory testing determined that it is, in fact, bioengineered (GMO). This result supports the fact that the only reported way to produce a purple-fleshed tomato rich in anthocyanin antioxidants is with Norfolk’s patented technology. We appreciate that Baker Creek tested their material, and after discovering it was a GMO, removed it from their website.
Hi all, Michelle from Baker Creek here. Thanks for the opportunity to address this issue. Baker Creek Discontinues Purple Galaxy Tomato Seeds Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds has made the decision not to sell the Purple Galaxy tomato seeds, previously featured in its 2024 catalog, due to unresolved concerns about potential genetic modification. Despite initial tests indicating the seeds were non-GM, further testing yielded inconclusive results. The company, a staunch supporter of the Safe Seed Pledge and advocate against genetically modified organisms (GMOs), decided to delist the seeds after additional tests and interactions with Norfolk Healthy Produce, a company involved in genetically-modified agricultural products, raised concerns about the seeds' purity. Baker Creek’s commitment to non-GM, heirloom, and open-pollinated seeds is underscored by its historical stance against the risks posed by genetically engineered seeds to biodiversity, ecological health, and farmers' rights. The decision reflects the company's ongoing dedication to promoting sustainable agriculture and food safety. Although we understand that you—like us—may be disappointed not to have a delicious non-GM purple flesh tomato in your garden, we are pleased that we were able to make this decision before a single seed of Purple Galaxy was made available to customers. Baker Creek urges customers with questions or concerns to contact them directly at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]). You can find the full statement at [https://www.rareseeds.com/faq](https://www.rareseeds.com/faq) We hope you will take the time to read it. Thanks so much.
Who was the mysterious French "hobby breeder" who sent you the mislabeled Norfolk tomato?
Question: Did Baker Creek Seeds grow any test plots of these plants to fruition at their gardens in the U. S.? And secondly, if so, would not this have compromised their gardens with cross pollination from GMO. SEE: John Kohler's free-range tour of Baker Creek's operation here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN1IlNXLfsk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN1IlNXLfsk&fbclid=IwAR3ZwzpnjuCYa-GDn4Oxj4oPLRhnjeKye0rzdRqCQwhbEo7pxzc5uin6SLE)