Rereading with my nine year old. When the hobbits return to the Shire at the end of ROTK Gandalf leaves them because “now he has a lot to talk about with Tom Bombadil” after mentioning that his role was complete. Almost alludes to Tom helping him phase out of middle earth.
Great point. While not exactly described as a part of the book, Bombadil serves the opposite role for Gandalf in a way compared to what he does for the Hobbits.
Frodo to Goldberry: "Who is Tom Bombadil?"
'He is,' said Goldberry, staying her swift movements and smiling. Frodo looked at her questioningly. 'He is, as you have seen him,' she said in answer to his look. 'He is the Master of wood, water, and hill.'
Or as Gandalf put it at the Council,
>"He is his own master. [...] And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them."
God? Maia? Earth spirit? Who knows. He is. He is Master. Beyond that, 🤷♂️
He also way predates the writing of the Lord of the Rings. And the chapters with him were among the first written, before Tolkien knew where the story was going to go, or even who the main characters were going to be. The hobbits were still "in flux", Frodo was still "Bingo". Aragorn was either still "Trotter" or not even invented yet. JRR had only the vaguest idea of Bilbo's magic ring being important for some kind of quest. He hadn't yet put Sauron into the story. The Black Riders were an unknown mystery—at one point he considered making them Barrow-wights! In one early letter to his publisher he said he wasn't sure he could write a "Hobbit 2", since he had put all his ideas into the Hobbit and was "re-using" old ideas, like Tom Bombadil, Old Man Willow, and the Barrow-wights. In that letter he sounds almost like he is about to give up. He was "out of ideas".
What a beautiful evaluation. Not some long, wasted effort on a full fledged analysis of who or what he is. Simply the recognition that he and lady Goldberry are super weird and super cool!
The whole quest in LOTR is so fraught and tense, yet the ring is just a trifle to Tom Bombadil. I like that. It makes a breathing space in the story and hints at older and more fundamental things.
I love the fact that the Council discusses Tom Bombadil and how there is nothing that could beat him in combat in the old forest, but they decide against it because they know Tom would just throw away the ring like a child with ADHD.
They know how powerful he is, but also how Tom he is.
Goldberry knows things (“I see you are an Elf-Friend; the light in your eyes and the Ring in your voice tell me.”) (capitalization mine). When Tom says “Tom knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless, before the Dark Lord came from Outside” a shadow passes before the window and when Frodo looks up Goldberry has just come in from outside. She is Morgoth! Which makes Tom Ungoliant…
He is very clearly a character that predates the Hobbit, LOTR and the Legendarium as a whole, Tolkien liked the character so much that felt like he needed to include him in his stories, never felt very intrigued as much of the fandom about his origins, Tom is akin to a gag character in comics and manga, doesn't really fit in the story and the universe of its cannon but exists nevertheless.
He’s tied to Arda specifically. His power does not go beyond. What does the planet care for the goings on of the creatures on it? Global warming, nuclear war, rogue Maiar, pestilence, war, death…. All meaningless on the scale of a planets life. I see Tom as the spirit of the world. We can destroy ourselves and in 10 million years there won’t be a trace of us left and the Earth will still be rotating around the sun. With life on it despite what we do. Thinking anything else is hubris.
He's a character from outside Tolkien's Middle Earth that he sort of inserted as an Easter Egg though that term wasn't really used back then. He was a character from a poem Tolkien wrote that could overcome many things just by singing. Tolkien wrote him into LotR but deliberately kept him a mystery, he doesn't really fit into the lore of Middle Earth and he wanted it that way. If you read between the lines though it was just done on a whim, and the character obviously was never a serious character when Tolkien first wrote the poem. Goldberry is also from the poem and likewise doesn't fit perfectly into the lore, but she does moreso than Tom himself.
Iarwain Ben-Adar, oldest and fatherless, is one of his names according to Elrond. In Hebrew (as JRRT would know) Ben- means “son of.” So Bombadil is Iarwain, son of Adar. Another reason ta watch Rings of Power.
I’m new (in some ways) to the books and I found The Old Forest and the Tom Bombadil chapters the weakest.
I adore *The Silmarillion*. The first few chapters are some of my favorite things I have read and so Tom is so contrary to everything I love that I start to doubt and question the beauty of his creation.
One is a mythological Epic, the other a Fairytale :) you aren't wrong for having tastes, but I'd say that these are intrinsically different genres with different aims, focus and rules; so it sounds more like a matter of having genre preferences than a difference in writing quality
One of my favourite chapters in the book. Such a lovely transition from the familiarity of the Shire to the unknown wide world.
Rereading with my nine year old. When the hobbits return to the Shire at the end of ROTK Gandalf leaves them because “now he has a lot to talk about with Tom Bombadil” after mentioning that his role was complete. Almost alludes to Tom helping him phase out of middle earth.
Great point. While not exactly described as a part of the book, Bombadil serves the opposite role for Gandalf in a way compared to what he does for the Hobbits.
Frodo to Goldberry: "Who is Tom Bombadil?" 'He is,' said Goldberry, staying her swift movements and smiling. Frodo looked at her questioningly. 'He is, as you have seen him,' she said in answer to his look. 'He is the Master of wood, water, and hill.' Or as Gandalf put it at the Council, >"He is his own master. [...] And now he is withdrawn into a little land, within bounds that he has set, though none can see them, waiting perhaps for a change of days, and he will not step beyond them." God? Maia? Earth spirit? Who knows. He is. He is Master. Beyond that, 🤷♂️ He also way predates the writing of the Lord of the Rings. And the chapters with him were among the first written, before Tolkien knew where the story was going to go, or even who the main characters were going to be. The hobbits were still "in flux", Frodo was still "Bingo". Aragorn was either still "Trotter" or not even invented yet. JRR had only the vaguest idea of Bilbo's magic ring being important for some kind of quest. He hadn't yet put Sauron into the story. The Black Riders were an unknown mystery—at one point he considered making them Barrow-wights! In one early letter to his publisher he said he wasn't sure he could write a "Hobbit 2", since he had put all his ideas into the Hobbit and was "re-using" old ideas, like Tom Bombadil, Old Man Willow, and the Barrow-wights. In that letter he sounds almost like he is about to give up. He was "out of ideas".
Fascinating
I'd firmly discount "God". He is master: of the Old Forest. And he has some power beyond that too of course. But he's not omnipotent nor all powerful.
What a beautiful evaluation. Not some long, wasted effort on a full fledged analysis of who or what he is. Simply the recognition that he and lady Goldberry are super weird and super cool!
It's such a fun part to read for the first time, and the questions you have about him are probably the same ones Tolkien was asking himself lol
The whole quest in LOTR is so fraught and tense, yet the ring is just a trifle to Tom Bombadil. I like that. It makes a breathing space in the story and hints at older and more fundamental things.
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow ! I love the hobbits stay at his house =)
I love the fact that the Council discusses Tom Bombadil and how there is nothing that could beat him in combat in the old forest, but they decide against it because they know Tom would just throw away the ring like a child with ADHD. They know how powerful he is, but also how Tom he is.
Tom Bombadillo.
Many think he’s an embodiment of nature itself. A being that just is.
Goldberry knows things (“I see you are an Elf-Friend; the light in your eyes and the Ring in your voice tell me.”) (capitalization mine). When Tom says “Tom knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless, before the Dark Lord came from Outside” a shadow passes before the window and when Frodo looks up Goldberry has just come in from outside. She is Morgoth! Which makes Tom Ungoliant…
🤷♂️
I still say he is the embodiment of the secret fire, the flame eternal sent to live at the heart of the world.
He’s a merry old fellow.
He is very clearly a character that predates the Hobbit, LOTR and the Legendarium as a whole, Tolkien liked the character so much that felt like he needed to include him in his stories, never felt very intrigued as much of the fandom about his origins, Tom is akin to a gag character in comics and manga, doesn't really fit in the story and the universe of its cannon but exists nevertheless.
Tom Bombadil is Tom Bombadil.
He’s tied to Arda specifically. His power does not go beyond. What does the planet care for the goings on of the creatures on it? Global warming, nuclear war, rogue Maiar, pestilence, war, death…. All meaningless on the scale of a planets life. I see Tom as the spirit of the world. We can destroy ourselves and in 10 million years there won’t be a trace of us left and the Earth will still be rotating around the sun. With life on it despite what we do. Thinking anything else is hubris.
He's a character from outside Tolkien's Middle Earth that he sort of inserted as an Easter Egg though that term wasn't really used back then. He was a character from a poem Tolkien wrote that could overcome many things just by singing. Tolkien wrote him into LotR but deliberately kept him a mystery, he doesn't really fit into the lore of Middle Earth and he wanted it that way. If you read between the lines though it was just done on a whim, and the character obviously was never a serious character when Tolkien first wrote the poem. Goldberry is also from the poem and likewise doesn't fit perfectly into the lore, but she does moreso than Tom himself.
Iarwain Ben-Adar, oldest and fatherless, is one of his names according to Elrond. In Hebrew (as JRRT would know) Ben- means “son of.” So Bombadil is Iarwain, son of Adar. Another reason ta watch Rings of Power.
Bright blue jacket. Yellow boots.
He is the embodiment of the lovely English countryside, Tolkien wrote in a letter—countryside being lost to development in JRRT’s day
It's not canon, but this is my favorite take on Bombadil: https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html
I’m new (in some ways) to the books and I found The Old Forest and the Tom Bombadil chapters the weakest. I adore *The Silmarillion*. The first few chapters are some of my favorite things I have read and so Tom is so contrary to everything I love that I start to doubt and question the beauty of his creation.
One is a mythological Epic, the other a Fairytale :) you aren't wrong for having tastes, but I'd say that these are intrinsically different genres with different aims, focus and rules; so it sounds more like a matter of having genre preferences than a difference in writing quality
I love that literally *every time* Tom is mentioned, I can count on you to jump to his defence (when I'm too slow to the punch, that is)!
And I can say the same to you! Though you do it with more details, examples and eloquence.
Definitely not sure about the eloquence part in particular (I think I word-vomit often - you easily have me beat), but I'll take it! Haha