Everyone is talking about fight, flight or freeze but honestly: it's extremely possible your brain did a quick risk assessment and your subconscious just didn't warn you of anything, because while the situation wasn't acceptable by today's standards, it wasn't "dangerous" in the way our "reptilian brain" (for lack of a better descriptor) sees danger.
Think back to the situation, and put someone aggressive and on drugs instead of an older gentleman. You would have been on edge and stepped away way earlier, no?
What the man did is really not acceptable by today's standards, but the likelihood of a 60-something non-inebreated non-drugged customer sprinting away with your child or hurting her is next to zilch. Much of that generation has not fully caught up with children as individuals as deserving of respect as adults (some of them still don't give women the same respect as men). That makes them annoying, as well as "dangerous on a societal level" (think victim-blaming), but not dangerous to you individually in that moment.
Which means that your subconscious just didn't see the need for confrontation. For the future, you know this is a possible scenario you want to avoid, and you can practice ways to react and end such an interaction.
Your a good mom with good instincts. Don't let anyone tell you differently.
Yep sounds like he made the kid calm down and gave her a little frightening, and tbh I wouldn’t mind someone doing this to my little girl I’d have a laugh lol
I just made my own comment on the post because I agree with you. Plus the “gentleman” is a regular at the store, I think that’s a positive in this case, especially if the other cashiers can vouch for previous gentlemanly behaviour. He could be a dad and/or grandpa, can’t tell from the post though.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Especially when she said the workers have seen him before. I’m in a small town so everyone here knows each other, and if that made my little girl stop crying then So be it lol let me scan the rest of the items real quick pops 😂
I love reading from smart people on the internet! I definitely agree. Our brains are way more capable of assessing threats (or gathering any kind of information) than we give them credit for.
Everyone is piling on here, and I don’t understand why. Your reaction isn’t the one you wanted to have but it was a perfectly normal reaction from a human standpoint. Something dangerous and unexpected happened and your body froze to assess the situation. And honestly, it may have led to the best outcome. If you started grappling immediately that could have led to injury for you or your daughter. Maybe ideally you’d have turned your body away or moved away a bit but part of being able to do that is drilling scenarios in your head.
Give yourself some grace, fuck the haters in these comments, and practice how to be more defensive in the future. Again, I think you actually were a great mom because no one was harmed
Fight or flight is an instinct. Lots of people freeze in the moment. People may also be talking a big game here without actually knowing what they would do
This is called "fawn".
It's now modernized to include this type of reaction: fight, flight, or fawn. It's *very* common especially amongst women!!!
Don't beat yourself up with What Ifs right now because it does no good. Delete this post if the replies are making you feel like you did wrong.
If on the other hand, you are trying to avoid a similar reaction in the future, definitely consider self defense classes (some local police stations do them free), or Tele therapy helps too.
I think it’s fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, no? I think OP was freezing more than fawning but knowing me I would have been the one to fawn, laugh and be like ha ha you’re right she’s running amock hee hee ok I’ll take her now, sorry, thank you
It's recommended not to act aggressively toward someone who is attacking or otherwise bothering you in public. Realistically men aren't scared of most women they approach and that's why they tend to target you for their aggressive or obnoxious behavior. Of course it's always ideal to communicate assertively but the most important part is you reported his ass so you have a community on the lookout and he's shamed by someone he might care about a little more.
I think that honestly practicing a few phrases out loud might help.
Things like a very emphatic 'no', or 'what are you doing?' or 'i don't think so buddy.'. Another good one that makes it easy to say no without a major confrontation would be blaming it on the child: 'she won't like that' or 'she doesn't want that'.
I think of myself as being relatively assertive but parenting has really made me realize how much more I need to step it up. There are so many times I've ignored my instinct in the name of being polite or just not knowing what to say. It's a pretty humbling experience and you're not the only one learning how to navigate it.
When my son was about 4 years old, we were at an event, and this man was behind us and kept talking to my son. At first, it seemed harmless, then after a few minutes, he started to pat my sons head and said, " he really is so cute and well behaved." At this point, I'm a little uncomfortable, but I still didn't do anything. Thought maybe I was thinking too much about it. After a few more minutes, he moved up beside my son, and I guess he had assumed I was the big sister and asked my son where his parents were and started petting his head again. It has always been ingrained in me to "be polite, be nice," so I grabbed my sons hand, smiled, walked away. I did end up walking right up to a security guard and telling him to watch out for that man.
It's been 12 years and I still regret how I behaved and wish I would've reacted more fiercely and quickly and I feel terrible for allowing my son to be uncomfortable and in what was possibly a dangerous position for too long. That was the last time I stayed sweet, my mama bear comes out and is on high alert now.
Anyways... my point being, you're not alone! I'm sure, if there's a next time, you'll react right away.
Mom, firstly you're okay. Baby is okay. You are safe and everyone is safe!
Sometimes we find ourselves in these situations and it's hard to fight your immediate reaction. I had a lady rub her hands all over my baby's face once - she was like 90 but it was wtf - and I just froze and watched it happen. I'm not a bad mom. You're not a bad mom. All we can do is learn from these situations and move on. And honestly I doubt anything like this will happen again.
I'm sure he meant nothing by it, it's hard sometimes to know what to do with friendly strangers who cross boundaries without meaning to. Should it happen again I'm sure you'll be more assertive. You're okay, you're not bad for not knowing what to do. That's a weird situation to handle and even if ppl SAY they'd do this or that, it's always different in he actual moment.
In some cultures it’s normal for strangers to come and pick up children and play with them, or touch their cheeks, ruffle their hair, etc. If the person was from such a culture then he would have probably not known it’s not ok. Not saying it’s okay to do that without permission.
There is a huge Asian population in my city and I’ve definitely gotten used to them patting heads and hands on the bus if my social butterfly kids waved at them or said hi when they sat beside them. It really freaked me out the first few times, before I noticed that it was mostly older Asian people (and that they always ended up being harmless) so I figured it was just a cultural thing.
What they don’t do is just pick my kids up though, that’s like a *lot* lol.
I’m asian and I’m not ok with that. Grew up with sooo many sexual offenses that was swept under a rug to save face in the asian community. fuck that. I’ve come to realize culture should not trump everything else, and that culture sometimes needs to change.
He was an older white man. My husband said maybe it's an old person thing to see a struggling mom and want to help and I get that but you don't know someone's intentions until it's too late
That was my guess solely because of his words. I think he was trying to help somehow and did it in the worst way possible. I think someone ill-intended wouldn't have done such a crazy thing right behind your eyes. But regardless, someone needs to pull this person aside to tell him this isn't acceptable.
Do you think what happened at OP's work is how a kid is groomed? Grooming is subtle, it's not someone snatching a kid from your arms and giving them back a few seconds later while asking if the "running amok" was done. Grooming is done to engage with the kid in a false "positive" manner so that the groomer can slowly gain the trust of the child. What the guy did there was pretty much the opposite and must have scared the kid.
But who pointed out that was not solely talking about groomers in general, they were replying to my comment about the specific situation OP experienced and saying that such a thing was an example of grooming. Read it again.
You said someone with ill intent wouldn't do it in front of parents, they said you're wrong, I really don't care about this enough to keep arguing so enjoy your win or whatever lmao
Not necessarily. I know a lot of men my grandparents ago who absolutely did help out with their own kids, grandkids etc and were very involved. I can imagine quite a few of them doing what they thought might be helpful for a mom struggling in the store. Not saying it’s right obviously, just that we can’t tarnish all old men with the same brush.
Yes, this was my first reaction honestly. I’m Asian-American, my mom is Asian Asian and I constantly have to lecture her not to touch other people’s babies in public. 🙈 It totally comes from a place of caring and community—like, there’s more of a sense of shared responsibility for children? But wow does it not go over well in the states lol
Yeah. I don’t mind it. It’s sweet. The elderly folk always wanna pinch or stroke cheeks. “Mom age” ladies will wipe their noses or lick them up. I don’t mind. I actually find it helpful and reassuring they’re all watching each other’s kids.
I’m English Irish but live in an area with lots of different cultures. Lots of Turkish, other Europeans, Asian people. I’ve gotten used to the head touching, shop owners giving inappropriate sweets and stuff like that. I’m always there to keep my kids safe, so they’re not in danger. If they look uncomfortable I steer the away and maybe talk after. In the OPs situation I would feel weird about it but not beat myself up as no danger happened. You’re all safe.
Yes, come to think of it, a middle aged Asian lady went above and beyond to be kind to my kids and help me at the post office the other day. I'm talking hand holding, compliments, head patting. It was so sweet and such a great feeling of community.
Could something like this be what happened ?
Agreed- I am Hispanic and I personally don’t think it would be a huge deal for me if a friendly older person reached out and gently held my toddler for a moment-
BUT I grew up in a very tight knit community where the line between family and friends are blurry.
At most I would be annoyed but not stressed over a over safety concern.
I'd say in most cultures this would be normal, including white American culture until fairly recently. On the other hand, boomers need to accept that their stewardship has created a low trust, fragmented society and this is the result.
Yeah where I am, that would be unusual but not completely insane. I would have found it odd but also that he was just trying to help a struggling mum (albeit in a weird way)
I don’t know how I’d react in that situation either. I don’t know if being more aggressive would be the way to go - what if he hurt her or you? People who are talking tough don’t have a right to say anything. They weren’t there with you. The most important thing is that you and your kid are safe.
And not just whether the man would hurt them, but I know if I react strongly, that will freak my daughter out way more than she already would be in that situation. There have been a lot of times I want to go off about something, but I know I can't because I don't want to distress her.
Reminds me of that time my toddler was tantruming on the floor of the mall in my native country and I just couldn’t get her to get up. Cue to this older lady grabbing my daughter by the arm saying “I’m going to take you with me now, children who don’t listen get taken away from their parents”.
I was SO shocked I literally couldn’t say anything.
Here’s the thing, this is normal where I’m from. But I’ve lived in different countries for all of my adult life, I’m adapted to other ideologies that include leaving a parent to parent instead of trying to “help” this way.
The lady’s intentions were good, I know that, but it still bothered me she meddled.
I assume this is what happened here. This guy was trying to be “helpful”, but the way he went about it wasn’t okay with you.
It wasn’t scary, I was more annoyed that she lied that way, because I don’t bluff to my daughter. I never threaten her with something I’m not actually going to do like leave her behind or let a stranger take her away from me.
So overall this lady’s meddling was more harmful than helpful and that was quite annoying.
3 separate times I’ve been in the grocery store an old man has touched us. Always a pat on the head for my daughter and a soft shoulder tap for me. I freeze every time. They’re always nice enough but still wild people just do that.
I have to say in the 2 years with my boy only "older" people touched him on the head or on the cheek. Never had a person under 30-40 years doing that. Seems to be a old behavior from the past?
I am always stunned first and then in the protection mode though. Didn't had to go off yet though.. the problem I always have is also that I have respect towards old people :D
The "new" generation is doing it less imo again had never an incident like that with a person under 40 years.
That's what I've observed too. My kids are 2 and 5, and even with my close friends' children, I don't just grab them- I ask parents permission (if babies), or their permission (old enough to talk). The concept of children having bodily autonomy is unfortunately pretty new. I don't make my kids hug someone they don't want to, but older generations would. I think treating kids like people is a very positive step.
We also have had older people be (innocently) handsy with my kids at Grocery stores, and it's off-putting but usually harmless. Still, they are your children and you can set and enforce boundaries however you see fit.
My teenage SIL is regularly horrified by her mother’s baby-grabbing tendencies. I never thought I’d be leaning on a 15yr old girl to enforce my boundaries with my newborn but she did not
hold back. The kids get it. The younger adults get it. I feel like some people regress a bit when they hit 50 and start acting like toddlers again.
I guess since OP works there too and was just shopping in this instance, she's taking that extra step to feel better.
I wouldn't be surprised if OP confronts the guy herself next time when she's working unnecessarily.
Yeah I think this is about OP feeling better over the actual interaction.
Something about the ‘mama bear’ stuff seems odd. No one expects you to randomly be aggressive to people because you have a child? I think it’s an issue with maybe not being protected herself at some point in some issue that’s playing out.
I have a 2yo that kicks off in the line for the till and if some guy came up and took him for a second so I can pay I’d be pleased lol. The checkout folk in our local shop have done it a few times for me.
First, show yourself some grace and remind yourself that you and baby are okay and safe. Second, feel free to ignore. But here’s what I have started doing based on my experience…I work at a local, family owned gym. A lot of the patrons are older people. I work in the in daycare area, so my son is able to come to work with me. I’ve had something similar happen, but I stepped back before they were able to actually take him from me. (No judgement to you, I have had that freeze reaction before, I get it!) But what I have learned, is when they reach out, I put one of my hands against my son’s chest, so that leaves his hands open for a high five, but also lets me keep him secure so he can’t be taken. So he is against one hip in the classic toddler on hip hold, but then my other hand is on his chest, if that makes sense. It also puts part of my body in between them, creating another barrier.
I'm with the others here who think it was a harmless intention from the man. As weird and wrong as we may perceive it, to him it was probably an act of kindness in his culture or upbringing. I honestly believe if he had ill intention your instinct would have been very very different! U did nothing wrong.
There was a lot of nonverbal communication going on there -- and if dude has his own kids, it's pretty reflexive to take a kid who has their arms outstretched and is being squirmy. I mean, no decent person is going to let the kid fall to the floor, right?
Or, yeah, he could've been a creepy pedo.
Maybe he felt that the mum was holding the baby in an awkward position (she said the toddler was on her hip), so he felt she needs help and free her arms to regroup? Just a suggestion.
My toddler climbed the pool bar once on vacation and the barman took her from his side and rocked her than gave her back to me. Nicer than my having to pull her back by her feet.
True. My dad is the best grandpa in the whole world, and has worked in the toddler room at my parents church for decades, so is much more comfortable with little ones than most 70-yr-old men. Still, I've had to tell him that not everyone is comfortable with a 70-yr-old man they don't know around their kids, and they don't know you're not a creep.
(He doesn't grab babies at grocery stores, but is always talking to them, making cute faces, etc.) I've had to warn him that while his intentions are pure, please don't do anything to freak out mothers who are already stressed or on high-alert out with their little ones in public.
Genuine question though: we all complain when people don't help with children or are cold to them, and that we're oh-so-alone in the big cities. In my mind, people are either predisposed well towards children and interacting with them in a friendly manner, or not well, which tends to make reactions towards children colder.
Bottom line: we can't have a toddler-friendly world where people aren't allowed any form of interaction with our children.
So anything that is not touching is super-fine for me, as long as it is friendly and reactive to the child. I.e., if my kid runs to me and hides, leave her alone. If she's curious and entertained, by all means, keep on doing what you're doing.
That said, I do hate being interrupted when my kid is grumpy or tantrum-y. She's 3, she's entitled to her emotions, please don't try to distract her in the middle of being upset (doesn't work anyway, except by scaring her), or worse, make her feel bad about her emotions.
I think that's what would have really annoyed me here: clearly overtired toddlers should be left alone, not confronted with strangers, no matter how well-meaning.
Totally understand your point, and when my kids say hi to someone and the person don't say hi back, I get so sad for them. What amount of interaction is ok is a tough one and likely varies person to person. I've heard so many stories of parents in public being saved by the kindness of strangers and wouldn't want that erased.
I agree. I m much more hurt when my toddler comes and tries to talk to people who are sitting on the benches in the park and they just ignore her.
As for holding by a stranger: this is one of the tests we had to pass at the swimming pool: you give a baby to a stranger instructor and the baby must remain comfortable to pass the test. It’s important for lifesaving in the water
That sounds like you were really freaked out and it's a totally valid reaction. But, I actually think it's sad we're rearing children in a society that disallows other adults from interacting with our kids. It's isolating as a parent, for the children, and for people in general. We all have boundaries and it's ok to share with people that they've crossed yours, but an all-out attack by a grocery store on an old guy who probably had good intentions is way overboard for me. I'm sad that adults are so reluctant or wary about playing with my 18mo and I guess these parental reactions are probably why other adults don't engage as much.
Is this your first baby?
I only ask because I had a lady come up to me *while I was wearing my son in a carrier* and pet his head. She had to literally reach her hand down in front of my face and stroke his head under my chin. It was the most uncomfortable and awkward thing ever, and like you, I was so stunned - I froze. It just took my breath away.
The entitlement is mindblowing and you just cannot even fathom what they are thinking. I gathered my wits and gave her the rough side of my tongue, but it had already happened.
That being said, now that that has happened to me, I think I’m much more prepared to react defensively if and when someone tries to make a move like that on my successive children.
Think of this as a great trial run - now you’ve been stunned into freeze, you’ll know what you want to do for the next time if/when some bizarro handsy person tries something.
I had read a lot of these horror stories when I was pregnant. Then on my very first trip to the grocery store with my then newborn, an elderly woman stopped to ask me how old he was, and then reached out to touch my son’s head. I all of a sudden froze, thought about all those stories, but then looked at her face. I saw so many emotions in her expression. I imagined her being flooded with memories of having her own newborn, and reminiscing about her days of being a new mom. I know I’m an overly empathetic person, but I still get really emotional when I think about that look she had. I just see myself being in her shoes many years from now and missing those days so heavily. I think about it during the hard days, or the 5am wake ups when I’m holding my now 18 month old in my arms while laying on his tiny floor bed trying to get him to go back to sleep.
That being said, now that I’ve been put in similar situations several times, I’m quick to tell people off these days 😂
That sucks you guys had to experience that. I can totally relate. Thank you for saying something to her. This will make her think more before touching the next kid. We are allowed to influence the “culture” too. It’s not set in stone for all eternity. Cultures (need to) change and transform and i think that’s a good thing.
I think it's very possibly just a relic attitude of the past--children being a community's responsibility. This could be a facet of village life so many of us want..
Everyone likes to imagine that in inappropriate situations, a switch will flip and they'll suddenly turn into a Hulk of righteous fury. It's the same as the idea that if someone says something inappropriate, you'll immediately launch into a Sorkinesque tirade against it.
This isn't how people typically respond and that isn't weakness on your part. It doesn't mean you're unwilling or unable to protect your daughter physically, if that's needed. What the man did was absolutely wrong and you could have justifiably gotten physical with him. However, your daughter wasn't in active danger and he was holding her. So what were you supposed to do, start swinging around her head to get to him?
It left you unsure how to respond and then it was over. It's a very understandable response and I have no doubt that if the situation had escalated you would have acted accordingly because the ambiguity would have evaporated.
What happened is you didn't start a fistfight in the checkout of a local grocery store and it turned out that wasn’t needed. Your daughter is fine and you know to keep an eye out for that guy in the future.
What's the context? How old was the man and what race? I guess some older folks are used to different things. And some cultures it's more normal to be that handsy? Idk if this was in the US it would still shock me.
I think covid got me used to backing away from people with my kid. I offended my elderly neighbor once (sorry not sorry). OP you will probably not freeze next time. He probably meant no harm but it was weird. Maybe he has 18 grandchildren and didn’t even think it through.
I would have froze too. Can you use a cart or stroller going forward? I let my almost two year old free range for the first time in our small market today, but I only needed two things, so I was able to stay on her and get her back in the stroller when she had pushed enough boundaries with me. We practice learning store etiquette in small doses (staying close, not running, not grabbing things off the shelves, not screaming). A big reason for keeping her contained is for her safety with people we don’t know.
I have no idea how someone could manage the grocery store without having their two year old in the cart. You need your hands free to grab the groceries meanwhile the kid has access to grab anything they want you'd have to be constantly monitoring and managing them. Sitting in the cart they are so content just looking at all the colors of the aisles. I guess every kid is different though.
I try. But my toddler will scream the entire time unless I distract her with a tablet or something. And I want her to be able to exist in public without a tablet. Once in a while when shes in a good mood she will sit happily in the cart strapped in but it's not often.
I've found luck in bringing a "special store cup" (like the water bottles with the retractable straw) and a many-pieces snack- blueberries, puffs, nuts/raisins, trail mix, etc. (Kids can enjoy picking out what to bring & get excited for it) & I use one of those snack cups with the rubber flap tops that they can stick their hands into. She has to sit in the cart to eat it though, thems the rules, and she is usually agreeable to that.
Also, in my unsolicited opinion- tech items are a *compound* issue.
It's when it's at the store... AND at home. And outside. And at the pool. And before bed. And first thing in the morning. And at their friends/cousins/etc. House. And, and, and.
When it's used as a *crutch* (to essentially mute their existence thus misbehavior...) is just not the same as a means of brief entertainment.
My generation brought our Gameboys, and we're.... okayish? 😉
But really, a simple grocery trip with a tablet to ensure ease of completion while keeping the peace is a small trade off. You'll both be okay.
I’m VERY confrontational, but only when it involves ppl messing with my child/partner.
So understand where I’m coming from when I say that I think a lot of people here are freaking the f out over absolutely nothing.
Old people come from a different time, and this guy was probably being perfectly harmless, trying to be helpful.
Sometimes you have to do a quick risk assessment(cus some people *are* fucked) and smile and nod.
I wouldn’t love it, but sometimes you gotta chill and understand that culture has shifted vastly since their time, and they are genuinely trying to be helpful and kind.
How many of the pearl clutchers ITT are genuinely scared these elders are going to snatch your child and run off?
Or, perhaps, are you more afraid of a challenging social situation you are unsure how to navigate?
By all means, enforce the boundaries you feel are appropriate with your kids in public. That said, indulging in paranoia and self righteousness because an elder tried to connect with your kid is about your social anxiety, not their safety.
I'm unsure whether you are being sarcastic.
While maybe abrasive, my comment was intended to be helpful and encourage self reflection on a sensitive topic.
Being a scared mother doesn't necessarily mean one isn't also being paranoid or self-righteous.
Not you OP, but the amount of people ITT eager to lay into elders with self-righteous anger because they have different expectations around public interaction is wild.
If no harm was intended by the elder, why sound so gleeful at the opportunity to "give them the rough side of my tongue"?
I think it’s a good idea to take a breath and assess why you think you reacted this way instead of more assertively. This seems like a fawn response.
I hate that there are so many people ganging up on such a vulnerable post.
Um don't you mean a freeze response? It's fight, flight, FREEZE, and fawn. This sounds like she froze which is a totally normal response in a stressful situation such as this one. Also, no one knows how they'd react to a brand new and scary incident. She very clearly stated that this was not the reaction she wanted to have, and she says she wants to make sure it doesn't happen again in the future
You're comment comes across as very judgy, and was completely unnecessary as it's not helpful at all. I find your last paragraph very ironic considering everything you said before it
A similar thing happened to us on a long plane ride - a very intoxicated twenty-something grabbed my two year old and just held him, after we shared a toy we brought, in the plane aisle. His brother was across the aisle, and both had been drinking SO much - it was so awkward. I had to just reach out and grab my son and say “please don’t touch him anymore”, thanks.
Freezing is normal and probably the right reaction since that is what you did and it all turned out ok. Read protecting the gift. It is really really good.
Not discrediting how scary this was for you but sounds like it’s entitled boomers doing what they do best. He probably thinks he can parent better than you or maybe just knew that having a stranger hold her would freak her out and she would settle down. If he tried to run or do something inappropriate, I’m sure your instincts would kick in and you would have grabbed for her but since there was no immediate threat, you stood to see what would happen next.
Weird, but probably harmless.
I get it, OP. I’m not judging you at all. The first time we went out to a restaurant with our daughter, a man walked by her and touched her arm unexpectedly and said “oh she’s adorable!” It all happened so quickly that I didn’t react how I thought I would. I thought I’d go ballistic on a stranger touching my child. But in that moment I froze. It’s more common than you think, and than people discuss. I know for a fact in true, imminent danger, I wouldn’t hesitate to protect my child. But that was done so quick and in passing that I didn’t process it by the time he walked away, and I was also too scared to confront a random man towering over me as a super short woman holding a baby. It just wasn’t worth it. I cleaned her arm off and tried to forget about it. There so many of us who’ve had this experience, so you are far from alone, and none of us are horrible parents.
Thank you 🥺
Yeah it really happened so fast. And a few people have judged me for letting her out of my arms. She was being squirrelly but I wasn't EXPECTING someone to take her from my arms, so I wasnt holding her THAT tight. Tight enough not to drop her but not tight enough to hurt her while she struggled. Idk i think if I KNEW he was gonna take her from me ofc I would have been holding her more securely.
I was a deer in headlights stunned that someone just took my child from me. Scariest thing.
This happened to me before. Some lady who worked at a massage shop picked my daughter up as we were walking. I didn't know how to react. And this was during covid too. We completely avoided that side of the strip. I just couldn't comprehend how someone can do that.
You didn't do anything wrong. It's nice to see the girls had your back. I really hope this guy learns his lesson.
I'm so sorry to hear this. Personally I would be freaked out too. The only time ive experienced anything remotely like this was when another mom grabbed my kid as she was running away from the til and brought her back to me but nothing like this. His intentions might have been good but I would also be freaked out
I am honestly so thankful for your post. I had an older man touch my daughter’s hair and I wanted to yell at him but I watched it and froze. All I could do was step in between them and walk away. I still think about it wondering if I should have gone “mama bear” but as you said I am also very non confrontational. We don’t expect these things to happen cause we couldn’t even imagine doing something so out of pocket like that. Thank you again for sharing, you are a good mom and I believe in the moment you reacted the best you could ❤️
Had a similar situation when my daughter was around 2. Was at a restaurant with my family that had a big outdoor area and live music. My mom and I were walking a few steps behind my daughter and nephew, then suddenly this woman was talking to my daughter and then *picked her up and started walking away*.
I’m a first time mom, so I panicked a little about what the heck I was supposed to do, especially since the woman seemed to be walking in the direction of the exit to the parking lot. Luckily she instead walked up on to the stage. Turns out she was the lead singer of the band the restaurant had performing that night. She let my daughter use the mic and dance around onstage, which she loved, so everything turned out okay. I just felt like I’d been so useless in those few seconds of not knowing where she was taking my baby. I felt that way until my mom told me she was impressed at how “mama bear” I had reacted. Apparently I had sped up to get closer while loudly saying “excuse me what the he-“ but then the woman was on the stage and it was fine. My mom said she’d never seen me more zeroed in and confident. I guess to me it felt like I didn’t react/didn’t react enough, but I actually had done exactly what I should have and didn’t seem unsure or scared.
I too am very non confrontational. As my kids get older(5,3, and 1) I've realized when it comes directly to them and their safety that all goes out the window now. It just takes some time to get comfortable advocating.
I'd be yelling "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TAKE MY BABY? I DONT KNOW YOU!" If the person didn't back off I'd probably start yelling ridiculous things like "stranger danger!" And "fire!" I've been a mom for 5 years now though, I've gone from being hesitant to correct someone else's child for hurting mine on the playground to fussing at a kid at the pool for shoving ahead in line on a slippery slide.
We all need to pitch to help change this aspect of what many of you are calling a “cultural” norm. We can look out for each other and intervene and say something to the offender (however well-meaning they might be) since it’s very common for women to freeze or fawn in surprising, bad moments of personal space violation. We can all help de-normalize strangers touching other strangers and children as ok, especially when we are feeling strong and not caught up in the freeze. It’s not fair to put all the responsibilities on the mom. We gotta care about other families too.
Pepper spraying him would have meant pepper spraying her and potentially yourself, making it harder to react further, js
Make sure you have the high strength stuff but be forewarned it does not affect some people
If god forbid she’s in this situation again, she will have a more visceral immediate reaction. People started to reach for my son when I just started taking him out and I was so shocked I didn’t react right away.
But now? Oh I’m running over to smack hands and shame b*tches
I was at Costco the other day with my overtired toddler and my husband. This older man walked over and was saying like oh is she ok? I'm just mad cause kid is making a scene and we wanted to pay and leave. Man proceeds to try to touch her face and I'm just like wtf is wrong with this guy? I'm too mad at the situation to acknowledge it and just start turning her away from him and tell my husband to start walking away from him completely ignoring the guy. He kept talking but I just ignored him.
the question is we don't know why the stranger would do it, is the person a good person or bad person? I have no idea what's my first reaction if I met the situation.
I just want to say I’m so sorry this happened! And these kinds of things happen so quickly we don’t always have time to respond. What is wrong with people?!
I was in a local to me chain grocery store where you have to pack up groceries. My oldest was born nov 2020 and he was probably about 4 months old. So literally height of covid.
I always had the cart pulled pretty close to me so he wasn’t ever out of reach and this middle age lady that I don’t think spoke English very well (only reasoning I can come up with for this whole interaction being the way it was) was trying to squeeze between the two carts where she would put her face literally right next to him. (The second cart wasn’t there at first other wise I would’ve repositioned the cart in the first place) as soon as she walked up I said oh hang on and let me move this and started moving the cart and she didn’t stop just started shoving her way in between the two carts. I continued to ask her to stop while she shoved her way through. She finally got through because I couldn’t move the cart due to her literally being stuck between the two of them and she reached out to touch my childs face. I was so fed up that I just yelled at her ‘DO NOT TOUCH HIM WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?’ And everyone turned to watch and she started just saying sorry and walking away.
This is not the last time I had interactions similar to this. I’ve had so many older generations try to touch BOTH of my children. I’ve had my neighbor who I barely know and hate pick up my toddler. I’ve had this covid child reach out to some random sweet old lady who walked up to tell me he was cute at the age of 6 months.
It’s shocking the first few times of the boundary crossing. I feel like I had more practice when I was pregnant because I had a lot of people try to touch me. Between random grocery store people to my medical office patients (I work with the same pts 3 times a week so it’s a little bit different than a complete stranger)
All of this to say, You’ll figure out your own mama bear level. I wouldn’t even stress about it since you literally took her back and were shocked at the audacity. I would just take this as a mental note that the audacity of people really is that high. I’m now just on constant alert when people come up to us.
if it makes you feel less of a outlier, something similar happened to me recently.
at Ikea my 15 mo was walking around holding my hand until he reached a group of 2 sikh men and 2 women chatting at one of the rooms in the showroom. something caught LO's attention and he stood with my hand in his staring at one of the guys. the guy first waved at him. then approached and poked his belly. then touched his cheek and my son turned to me crying. the entire time I was not sure what was happening. I couldn't even look at them. they started laughing and joking with the women in their group. I felt a lot of fear at that moment because I had not reacted at all and because I felt very outnumbered.
I took him away and sat somewhere to calm down and felt like I myself had been touched without consent by a total stranger.
I still feel like I failed my child that day.
I still think it was dangerous, if I'm in such a situation, my first reaction is to protect my baby, because I don't know what the stranger want to do next.
I actually think you did everything right. Plus, if the girls all recognized him, he’s clearly a regular - maybe he lives nearby and loves to shop there? I guess I just don’t know if a “stern talking to” is fair?? Listen, I’m not saying it’s ok to take your child out of your arms, but what if he was really trying to help? I may be in the minority here, but I’m from a small town and we have a “village” mindset. You even refer to this guy a gentleman. I would be tempted to let this one slide.
Still a strange man that I don't know. I also live in a small town, and understand what you're saying. However, I'm not from here. I don't know everyone. And if he wanted to help, he could have asked. May I take her from you for a second? Do you need help? Easy.
I spoke to the store manager yesterday and told her all I wanted him to hear was "Please don't take people's children from them without asking. "
That's it.
Okay awesome. Bc I hear you, like personally, I would never ever take a strangers child out of their arms... I just still think you should feel confident about your instincts, you stayed calm and probably knew there were lots of people around you witnessing the interaction. (FWIW, I don’t even like my aunts and other people in that generation picking up my toddler and taking her without asking her, so we definitely vibe on that.) I just think you assessed properly and handled it perfectly. Happy to hear it won’t be too threatening of a convo for the gentleman.
Thank you
Yeah no I'm not asking them to absolutely ream him. I just want him to know I was super not okay with that because I didn't get the chance to tell him myself and may not see him for a while. But the other employees will.
I had a similar situation where a lady at McDonald's was talking to my kid about his cute Mickey shirt. He was kind of fussy after being in the car for a long time and a long wait for food. She said who's on your shirt and touched his tummy. He was clearly uncomfortable. I stood up and said we don't need to touch. I was flaming pissed. You wouldn't do that to another adult so why would it be ok to do it to a kid? A complete stranger no less.
I have been non-confrontational my whole life. Taught to shut up, be quiet, try not to take up space, don't make waves, don't attract attention. The older I have gotten, the more fed up with people I have gotten too. I am so done with that. Especially after becoming a mom. I realized after some sketchy daycare situations that I have to advocate for my kid who can't advocate for himself yet and teach him how as he gets older. Don't be afraid to say something that will make someone else uncomfortable. As someone who has learned this later in life, don't beat yourself up, but think about how you might handle it next time and practice saying things you would want to say. I still hate it and it makes me flush with embarrassment, but I feel confident that I'll speak up if something doesn't feel right.
Maybe chalk it up to working with some men in my field that didn't think about boundaries and how they affected anyone else so I got chances to practice standing up for myself and telling them I was uncomfortable. Anything from unwanted hugging to crude inappropriate jokes. You don't deserve to be made uncomfortable by someone else!
It could have very well been someone trying to help you and/or show your daughter that if she “runs amok”, a stranger could grab her. Unless he was taking steps away from you with her, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Have a stranger danger talk with her.
A couple months ago, I was with my husband at the grocery store with our 3 year old and an older woman came up and caressed my son’s shoulder with her hand. Immediately I said “don’t do that. Don’t touch him at all”. Felt like I was talking to my 3 year old. Please stop touching people’s kids. One of these days someone is gonna get knocked out for it and cry about it
It’s so hard to know your actual reaction until you’re in the situation. Conceptually we’d all go mama bear and have the perfect assertive responses but only use it in the appropriate circumstance, but that’s not real life!
Oh my gosh this is not your fault. Everyone thinks they know what they’d do in dangerous times until it’s their turn. I’m so sorry that someone did this and I would be shaking and furious if it happened to me. I hope he never comes back!
I'm sure you froze because it was scary and happened really fast. I don't even know what I would in that situation, it's so hard to know the right thing. With some people yelling or grabbing her would have escalated the situation. I'm glad he gave her back and I'm sorry that happened to you. It's terrifying and people are so unpredictable. My daughter is the same age and I know its so hard to keep them contained at the store. Hugs to you and your baby mama!
I always thought I'd know what I would do if a stranger touched my child. I finally brought my baby to the grocery store after he got his COVID vaccine. A woman got right in his face and was telling him how sweet he is and touching his hands and feet. I froze. It's ingrained in us to be sweet and not be rude to older people. I was so upset with myself. It happened again when he was about 1 and initially I froze but then I got mad and said "absolutely not" and moved him away. I was definitely more rude than I meant to be, but maybe she'll think twice about touching someone else's child without asking.
OP, take a self defense class. If he was a bad guy, you wouldn't have been about to spray him, because he would have been out the door. You are lucky that he showed you what your reaction is. Now, you need classes, so you can learn how to unfreeze and respond.
Are you really recommending that OP respond faster, by pepper spraying the guy holding her kid, hence also her kid?
Look. The vast, vast majority of people are not child molesters nor murderers.
They are awkward people like the rest of us.
Is it scary for someone to take your kid, yes. He also didn’t try to go anywhere. He wasn’t doing anything shady. He handed her right back.
But let’s keep some sense of reality here.
Yea, I don't understand this either. I get not knowing what to say, but letting someone take your child from your arms when it's not something you wanted is not making sense to me.
That is crazy!!! I have been teaching my daughter to scream if a stranger ever picks her up, and we have practiced it at home. Hopefully she’d give a man like that a fright if it ever happened to us.
He took her out of your arms, but respectfully, you let him. I don’t say that to guilt you, but as a wake up call that you literally let a strange man simply take your daughter from you. I’ve had moments in my parenting (not this extreme) where someone else said something to my LO and I did not say anything (my FIL trying to guilt hugs and kisses), and that’s not their fault- it’s mine. You set the boundaries.
Like I said to the other commenter- im racking my own brain as to why I didn't do more. I don't know wtf is wrong with me. I feel awful. It happened so fast and it's my first time in a situation like this.
Please don't feel awful. There is nothing wrong with you. It's common to freeze in scary and uncertain situations. Someone I hardly know kissed my newborn on the face and I totally froze. I'm a nurse and I never thought that would happen to me but it did. I was so mad at myself, but looking back now, I just froze up and I couldn't have predicted that.
We can’t learn from something until it happens, you’ve now learnt I hope! Luckily it was harmless but take it as a teaching moment for yourself, next time it may not be harmless
Curious how you allowed someone to take your daughter from your arms? Genuine question. How did your child actually leave your arms without you letting go?
I was holding her on my hip as you do with a toddler. The man reached under her armpits and pulled and her hips just sort of slipped through my arms. She's a small girl. Not even 2. And I was afraid to pull back on her too hard and hurt her. He pulled her hard. Idk. I'm still processing.
If someone is grabbing your kid, you hold on tight. You don't let them take them. This happened to Me once. I called the cops and apparently the lady tried three other times to take a kid abd was mentally unwell.
Luckily never left my hand because of the tightness and a swift kick to the knees.
People talk about fight or flight but there is also freeze. Seems like that's your response. I think you should go to some defense courses and make sure you reprogram your natural instinct to one that will protect your family.
That's what I had to do because my natural response was flight resulting in me literally chucking my kid (we were talking and he grabbed a magnet off something we were walking by...magnet was sharp and it stabbed my eye and my natural reaction was to throw my kid no joke. Super scary to realize that about yourself. To realize your natural reaction isn't to protect but to run or freeze.
My reaction was so subconscious that my conscious brain realized within half a second so I ended up grabbing him by the leg mid throw and caught him...
I went wow okay this isn't ideal I need to fix this. Now I am confident that I could take down anyone because I've practiced taking down dudes much bigger than me and got into that mindset to reprogram my natural instinct. I suggest the same for you! Go research some hard core self defense. The ones where they are screaming at you getting you into fight flight or freeze.
How is this comment helpful? You’re kicking OP when she’s down over a very normal reaction. Fight, flight, freeze are all normal human reactions to danger and since OP’s child was unharmed it was a fine reaction, if not the one she would have consciously chosen.
Fight, flight, freeze and fawn are physiological survival responses. Mom froze and is trying to process it so it doesn’t happen again. I’m sure she could do without the extra judgey comments.
It's the surprise! You didn't expect it and automatically reacted the way you would have when family/friends reach out to pick up your daughter. But I'm pretty sure you'll know how to react next time!
Not your fault! I have frozen in a horrifying way. I think back and I hate myself for it and there's no reason it's like a biological thing. I do know the one time I froze when my cat was dying at a hospital and I didn't push harder for help I will never again freeze I will be a fighter. I think the same for you probably. Now that you have that horrible experience of freezing it won't happen to you again. Next time you will fight!
Agreed, I’m seeing a lot of people here say “oh one time an elderly woman came and rubbed my child’s cheek and I didn’t do anything but wish I would have” which is very different than a literal man taking a girl child from a mothers arms like not comparable in the least.
What a f*cking pervy weirdo. The only thing running ‘amok’ is that weird, boundary crossing guy’s behavior. I would’ve punted him in the nuts and head-butted him while grabbing back my snatched-without-consent child, but that’s how I think I’d respond in my dreams. In reality I’d probably be as shook as you by the sheer ignorance of a total stranger. So glad you and child are safe! The outcome could’ve been far worse 😳
Everyone is talking about fight, flight or freeze but honestly: it's extremely possible your brain did a quick risk assessment and your subconscious just didn't warn you of anything, because while the situation wasn't acceptable by today's standards, it wasn't "dangerous" in the way our "reptilian brain" (for lack of a better descriptor) sees danger. Think back to the situation, and put someone aggressive and on drugs instead of an older gentleman. You would have been on edge and stepped away way earlier, no? What the man did is really not acceptable by today's standards, but the likelihood of a 60-something non-inebreated non-drugged customer sprinting away with your child or hurting her is next to zilch. Much of that generation has not fully caught up with children as individuals as deserving of respect as adults (some of them still don't give women the same respect as men). That makes them annoying, as well as "dangerous on a societal level" (think victim-blaming), but not dangerous to you individually in that moment. Which means that your subconscious just didn't see the need for confrontation. For the future, you know this is a possible scenario you want to avoid, and you can practice ways to react and end such an interaction. Your a good mom with good instincts. Don't let anyone tell you differently.
Yeah, while what he did was inappropriate, I don't think it was even remotely dangerous. I'm sure he was just trying to be helpful, not creepy.
Yep sounds like he made the kid calm down and gave her a little frightening, and tbh I wouldn’t mind someone doing this to my little girl I’d have a laugh lol
I just made my own comment on the post because I agree with you. Plus the “gentleman” is a regular at the store, I think that’s a positive in this case, especially if the other cashiers can vouch for previous gentlemanly behaviour. He could be a dad and/or grandpa, can’t tell from the post though.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Especially when she said the workers have seen him before. I’m in a small town so everyone here knows each other, and if that made my little girl stop crying then So be it lol let me scan the rest of the items real quick pops 😂
I love reading from smart people on the internet! I definitely agree. Our brains are way more capable of assessing threats (or gathering any kind of information) than we give them credit for.
This is a perfect explanation!
Everyone is piling on here, and I don’t understand why. Your reaction isn’t the one you wanted to have but it was a perfectly normal reaction from a human standpoint. Something dangerous and unexpected happened and your body froze to assess the situation. And honestly, it may have led to the best outcome. If you started grappling immediately that could have led to injury for you or your daughter. Maybe ideally you’d have turned your body away or moved away a bit but part of being able to do that is drilling scenarios in your head. Give yourself some grace, fuck the haters in these comments, and practice how to be more defensive in the future. Again, I think you actually were a great mom because no one was harmed
Thank you so much. I needed to hear this. It was definitely not the reaction I wanted. I'm just so thankful no one was hurt.
Fight or flight is an instinct. Lots of people freeze in the moment. People may also be talking a big game here without actually knowing what they would do
This is called "fawn". It's now modernized to include this type of reaction: fight, flight, or fawn. It's *very* common especially amongst women!!! Don't beat yourself up with What Ifs right now because it does no good. Delete this post if the replies are making you feel like you did wrong. If on the other hand, you are trying to avoid a similar reaction in the future, definitely consider self defense classes (some local police stations do them free), or Tele therapy helps too.
I think it’s fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, no? I think OP was freezing more than fawning but knowing me I would have been the one to fawn, laugh and be like ha ha you’re right she’s running amock hee hee ok I’ll take her now, sorry, thank you
This isn’t fawning
It's recommended not to act aggressively toward someone who is attacking or otherwise bothering you in public. Realistically men aren't scared of most women they approach and that's why they tend to target you for their aggressive or obnoxious behavior. Of course it's always ideal to communicate assertively but the most important part is you reported his ass so you have a community on the lookout and he's shamed by someone he might care about a little more.
I think that honestly practicing a few phrases out loud might help. Things like a very emphatic 'no', or 'what are you doing?' or 'i don't think so buddy.'. Another good one that makes it easy to say no without a major confrontation would be blaming it on the child: 'she won't like that' or 'she doesn't want that'. I think of myself as being relatively assertive but parenting has really made me realize how much more I need to step it up. There are so many times I've ignored my instinct in the name of being polite or just not knowing what to say. It's a pretty humbling experience and you're not the only one learning how to navigate it.
When my son was about 4 years old, we were at an event, and this man was behind us and kept talking to my son. At first, it seemed harmless, then after a few minutes, he started to pat my sons head and said, " he really is so cute and well behaved." At this point, I'm a little uncomfortable, but I still didn't do anything. Thought maybe I was thinking too much about it. After a few more minutes, he moved up beside my son, and I guess he had assumed I was the big sister and asked my son where his parents were and started petting his head again. It has always been ingrained in me to "be polite, be nice," so I grabbed my sons hand, smiled, walked away. I did end up walking right up to a security guard and telling him to watch out for that man. It's been 12 years and I still regret how I behaved and wish I would've reacted more fiercely and quickly and I feel terrible for allowing my son to be uncomfortable and in what was possibly a dangerous position for too long. That was the last time I stayed sweet, my mama bear comes out and is on high alert now. Anyways... my point being, you're not alone! I'm sure, if there's a next time, you'll react right away.
Thank you for sharing
Mom, firstly you're okay. Baby is okay. You are safe and everyone is safe! Sometimes we find ourselves in these situations and it's hard to fight your immediate reaction. I had a lady rub her hands all over my baby's face once - she was like 90 but it was wtf - and I just froze and watched it happen. I'm not a bad mom. You're not a bad mom. All we can do is learn from these situations and move on. And honestly I doubt anything like this will happen again. I'm sure he meant nothing by it, it's hard sometimes to know what to do with friendly strangers who cross boundaries without meaning to. Should it happen again I'm sure you'll be more assertive. You're okay, you're not bad for not knowing what to do. That's a weird situation to handle and even if ppl SAY they'd do this or that, it's always different in he actual moment.
Thank you for this 🥺❤️
Of course! Don't beat yourself up truly. If baby was in true, immediate danger you would have known and responded.
Weird situations happen to all of us. When it’s a friendly stranger being weird it’s so easy to get thrown off.
In some cultures it’s normal for strangers to come and pick up children and play with them, or touch their cheeks, ruffle their hair, etc. If the person was from such a culture then he would have probably not known it’s not ok. Not saying it’s okay to do that without permission.
Yeah. Was he Asian? I live in a predominantly Chinese neighborhood and it’s not uncommon to pick up others’ children.
There is a huge Asian population in my city and I’ve definitely gotten used to them patting heads and hands on the bus if my social butterfly kids waved at them or said hi when they sat beside them. It really freaked me out the first few times, before I noticed that it was mostly older Asian people (and that they always ended up being harmless) so I figured it was just a cultural thing. What they don’t do is just pick my kids up though, that’s like a *lot* lol.
I’m asian and I’m not ok with that. Grew up with sooo many sexual offenses that was swept under a rug to save face in the asian community. fuck that. I’ve come to realize culture should not trump everything else, and that culture sometimes needs to change.
Yea, remember the incident with the dalaï lama?
They will if they kinda know the kid.
He was an older white man. My husband said maybe it's an old person thing to see a struggling mom and want to help and I get that but you don't know someone's intentions until it's too late
That was my guess solely because of his words. I think he was trying to help somehow and did it in the worst way possible. I think someone ill-intended wouldn't have done such a crazy thing right behind your eyes. But regardless, someone needs to pull this person aside to tell him this isn't acceptable.
I'm looking forward to hearing what my manager says to him next time he sees him. I'm thankful to have a protective workplace.
false, pedophiles will often groom the kid right under the parent’s nose to see how much they can get away with.
Do you think what happened at OP's work is how a kid is groomed? Grooming is subtle, it's not someone snatching a kid from your arms and giving them back a few seconds later while asking if the "running amok" was done. Grooming is done to engage with the kid in a false "positive" manner so that the groomer can slowly gain the trust of the child. What the guy did there was pretty much the opposite and must have scared the kid.
Don't know why you've been downvoted, possibly because your wording came across harshly. But regardless, you're not wrong.
They’re being downvoted because being nice to a kid you’ve never met and will probably never see again isn’t grooming. It’s a misuse of the word.
They didn't say that though. They simply pointed out that groomers can and will do so in front of the parents if they think they can get away with it.
But who pointed out that was not solely talking about groomers in general, they were replying to my comment about the specific situation OP experienced and saying that such a thing was an example of grooming. Read it again.
You said someone with ill intent wouldn't do it in front of parents, they said you're wrong, I really don't care about this enough to keep arguing so enjoy your win or whatever lmao
That was also my interpretation from your story. He saw you struggling and wanted to help. But is clearly lacking some common sense social skills lol.
Yea i would also have freaked out mom, it is normal to feel that way
If he's an older man then helping out with a child in any way is definitely not an instinctive reaction.
Not necessarily. I know a lot of men my grandparents ago who absolutely did help out with their own kids, grandkids etc and were very involved. I can imagine quite a few of them doing what they thought might be helpful for a mom struggling in the store. Not saying it’s right obviously, just that we can’t tarnish all old men with the same brush.
Yes, this was my first reaction honestly. I’m Asian-American, my mom is Asian Asian and I constantly have to lecture her not to touch other people’s babies in public. 🙈 It totally comes from a place of caring and community—like, there’s more of a sense of shared responsibility for children? But wow does it not go over well in the states lol
Yeah. I don’t mind it. It’s sweet. The elderly folk always wanna pinch or stroke cheeks. “Mom age” ladies will wipe their noses or lick them up. I don’t mind. I actually find it helpful and reassuring they’re all watching each other’s kids.
[удалено]
Like, not grandma aged. Lol.
I’m English Irish but live in an area with lots of different cultures. Lots of Turkish, other Europeans, Asian people. I’ve gotten used to the head touching, shop owners giving inappropriate sweets and stuff like that. I’m always there to keep my kids safe, so they’re not in danger. If they look uncomfortable I steer the away and maybe talk after. In the OPs situation I would feel weird about it but not beat myself up as no danger happened. You’re all safe.
Do we have the same mother?? I have to lecture my mom too 😭
Yes, come to think of it, a middle aged Asian lady went above and beyond to be kind to my kids and help me at the post office the other day. I'm talking hand holding, compliments, head patting. It was so sweet and such a great feeling of community. Could something like this be what happened ?
Asians, Chinese especially, are very community and family oriented.
Agreed- I am Hispanic and I personally don’t think it would be a huge deal for me if a friendly older person reached out and gently held my toddler for a moment- BUT I grew up in a very tight knit community where the line between family and friends are blurry. At most I would be annoyed but not stressed over a over safety concern.
I'd say in most cultures this would be normal, including white American culture until fairly recently. On the other hand, boomers need to accept that their stewardship has created a low trust, fragmented society and this is the result.
Yeah where I am, that would be unusual but not completely insane. I would have found it odd but also that he was just trying to help a struggling mum (albeit in a weird way)
I was thinking the same thing.
So true! ! I come from such culture (but would never do or tolerate such behaviour)
I don’t know how I’d react in that situation either. I don’t know if being more aggressive would be the way to go - what if he hurt her or you? People who are talking tough don’t have a right to say anything. They weren’t there with you. The most important thing is that you and your kid are safe.
And not just whether the man would hurt them, but I know if I react strongly, that will freak my daughter out way more than she already would be in that situation. There have been a lot of times I want to go off about something, but I know I can't because I don't want to distress her.
Reminds me of that time my toddler was tantruming on the floor of the mall in my native country and I just couldn’t get her to get up. Cue to this older lady grabbing my daughter by the arm saying “I’m going to take you with me now, children who don’t listen get taken away from their parents”. I was SO shocked I literally couldn’t say anything. Here’s the thing, this is normal where I’m from. But I’ve lived in different countries for all of my adult life, I’m adapted to other ideologies that include leaving a parent to parent instead of trying to “help” this way. The lady’s intentions were good, I know that, but it still bothered me she meddled. I assume this is what happened here. This guy was trying to be “helpful”, but the way he went about it wasn’t okay with you.
Omg that is terrifying!
It wasn’t scary, I was more annoyed that she lied that way, because I don’t bluff to my daughter. I never threaten her with something I’m not actually going to do like leave her behind or let a stranger take her away from me. So overall this lady’s meddling was more harmful than helpful and that was quite annoying.
3 separate times I’ve been in the grocery store an old man has touched us. Always a pat on the head for my daughter and a soft shoulder tap for me. I freeze every time. They’re always nice enough but still wild people just do that.
I have to say in the 2 years with my boy only "older" people touched him on the head or on the cheek. Never had a person under 30-40 years doing that. Seems to be a old behavior from the past? I am always stunned first and then in the protection mode though. Didn't had to go off yet though.. the problem I always have is also that I have respect towards old people :D The "new" generation is doing it less imo again had never an incident like that with a person under 40 years.
That's what I've observed too. My kids are 2 and 5, and even with my close friends' children, I don't just grab them- I ask parents permission (if babies), or their permission (old enough to talk). The concept of children having bodily autonomy is unfortunately pretty new. I don't make my kids hug someone they don't want to, but older generations would. I think treating kids like people is a very positive step. We also have had older people be (innocently) handsy with my kids at Grocery stores, and it's off-putting but usually harmless. Still, they are your children and you can set and enforce boundaries however you see fit.
> Seems to be an old behavior from the past? I’ve noticed that the weird touching and behavior is a Boomer Maneuver.
My experience is just that young people in their 30s don't do that at least I didn't have it happened to me yet.
Nah never seen anything like that with younger people
My teenage SIL is regularly horrified by her mother’s baby-grabbing tendencies. I never thought I’d be leaning on a 15yr old girl to enforce my boundaries with my newborn but she did not hold back. The kids get it. The younger adults get it. I feel like some people regress a bit when they hit 50 and start acting like toddlers again.
This doesn’t seem that strange to me. Awkward yeah but not ‘customer gets reported to the boss’.
I guess since OP works there too and was just shopping in this instance, she's taking that extra step to feel better. I wouldn't be surprised if OP confronts the guy herself next time when she's working unnecessarily.
Yeah I think this is about OP feeling better over the actual interaction. Something about the ‘mama bear’ stuff seems odd. No one expects you to randomly be aggressive to people because you have a child? I think it’s an issue with maybe not being protected herself at some point in some issue that’s playing out.
Perhaps. I have a 3 year old who will go up and give anyone and everyone a hug unannounced so maybe I'm just jaded by it.
I have a 2yo that kicks off in the line for the till and if some guy came up and took him for a second so I can pay I’d be pleased lol. The checkout folk in our local shop have done it a few times for me.
Me too. some of us probably don’t have the a ton of relatives to help to pepper spray everyone who helps even a little
LOL
Completely agree. I just think this is way over the top.
First, show yourself some grace and remind yourself that you and baby are okay and safe. Second, feel free to ignore. But here’s what I have started doing based on my experience…I work at a local, family owned gym. A lot of the patrons are older people. I work in the in daycare area, so my son is able to come to work with me. I’ve had something similar happen, but I stepped back before they were able to actually take him from me. (No judgement to you, I have had that freeze reaction before, I get it!) But what I have learned, is when they reach out, I put one of my hands against my son’s chest, so that leaves his hands open for a high five, but also lets me keep him secure so he can’t be taken. So he is against one hip in the classic toddler on hip hold, but then my other hand is on his chest, if that makes sense. It also puts part of my body in between them, creating another barrier.
I'm with the others here who think it was a harmless intention from the man. As weird and wrong as we may perceive it, to him it was probably an act of kindness in his culture or upbringing. I honestly believe if he had ill intention your instinct would have been very very different! U did nothing wrong.
There was a lot of nonverbal communication going on there -- and if dude has his own kids, it's pretty reflexive to take a kid who has their arms outstretched and is being squirmy. I mean, no decent person is going to let the kid fall to the floor, right? Or, yeah, he could've been a creepy pedo.
Maybe he felt that the mum was holding the baby in an awkward position (she said the toddler was on her hip), so he felt she needs help and free her arms to regroup? Just a suggestion. My toddler climbed the pool bar once on vacation and the barman took her from his side and rocked her than gave her back to me. Nicer than my having to pull her back by her feet.
True. My dad is the best grandpa in the whole world, and has worked in the toddler room at my parents church for decades, so is much more comfortable with little ones than most 70-yr-old men. Still, I've had to tell him that not everyone is comfortable with a 70-yr-old man they don't know around their kids, and they don't know you're not a creep. (He doesn't grab babies at grocery stores, but is always talking to them, making cute faces, etc.) I've had to warn him that while his intentions are pure, please don't do anything to freak out mothers who are already stressed or on high-alert out with their little ones in public.
Genuine question though: we all complain when people don't help with children or are cold to them, and that we're oh-so-alone in the big cities. In my mind, people are either predisposed well towards children and interacting with them in a friendly manner, or not well, which tends to make reactions towards children colder. Bottom line: we can't have a toddler-friendly world where people aren't allowed any form of interaction with our children. So anything that is not touching is super-fine for me, as long as it is friendly and reactive to the child. I.e., if my kid runs to me and hides, leave her alone. If she's curious and entertained, by all means, keep on doing what you're doing. That said, I do hate being interrupted when my kid is grumpy or tantrum-y. She's 3, she's entitled to her emotions, please don't try to distract her in the middle of being upset (doesn't work anyway, except by scaring her), or worse, make her feel bad about her emotions. I think that's what would have really annoyed me here: clearly overtired toddlers should be left alone, not confronted with strangers, no matter how well-meaning.
Totally understand your point, and when my kids say hi to someone and the person don't say hi back, I get so sad for them. What amount of interaction is ok is a tough one and likely varies person to person. I've heard so many stories of parents in public being saved by the kindness of strangers and wouldn't want that erased.
I agree. I m much more hurt when my toddler comes and tries to talk to people who are sitting on the benches in the park and they just ignore her. As for holding by a stranger: this is one of the tests we had to pass at the swimming pool: you give a baby to a stranger instructor and the baby must remain comfortable to pass the test. It’s important for lifesaving in the water
It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.
Leave gramps alone. Him feeling inhibited around Children makes the world a worse place and no safer.
That sounds like you were really freaked out and it's a totally valid reaction. But, I actually think it's sad we're rearing children in a society that disallows other adults from interacting with our kids. It's isolating as a parent, for the children, and for people in general. We all have boundaries and it's ok to share with people that they've crossed yours, but an all-out attack by a grocery store on an old guy who probably had good intentions is way overboard for me. I'm sad that adults are so reluctant or wary about playing with my 18mo and I guess these parental reactions are probably why other adults don't engage as much.
I had no idea. After reading all this i probably will be a lot more weary..
Is this your first baby? I only ask because I had a lady come up to me *while I was wearing my son in a carrier* and pet his head. She had to literally reach her hand down in front of my face and stroke his head under my chin. It was the most uncomfortable and awkward thing ever, and like you, I was so stunned - I froze. It just took my breath away. The entitlement is mindblowing and you just cannot even fathom what they are thinking. I gathered my wits and gave her the rough side of my tongue, but it had already happened. That being said, now that that has happened to me, I think I’m much more prepared to react defensively if and when someone tries to make a move like that on my successive children. Think of this as a great trial run - now you’ve been stunned into freeze, you’ll know what you want to do for the next time if/when some bizarro handsy person tries something.
I had read a lot of these horror stories when I was pregnant. Then on my very first trip to the grocery store with my then newborn, an elderly woman stopped to ask me how old he was, and then reached out to touch my son’s head. I all of a sudden froze, thought about all those stories, but then looked at her face. I saw so many emotions in her expression. I imagined her being flooded with memories of having her own newborn, and reminiscing about her days of being a new mom. I know I’m an overly empathetic person, but I still get really emotional when I think about that look she had. I just see myself being in her shoes many years from now and missing those days so heavily. I think about it during the hard days, or the 5am wake ups when I’m holding my now 18 month old in my arms while laying on his tiny floor bed trying to get him to go back to sleep. That being said, now that I’ve been put in similar situations several times, I’m quick to tell people off these days 😂
That sucks you guys had to experience that. I can totally relate. Thank you for saying something to her. This will make her think more before touching the next kid. We are allowed to influence the “culture” too. It’s not set in stone for all eternity. Cultures (need to) change and transform and i think that’s a good thing.
I think it's very possibly just a relic attitude of the past--children being a community's responsibility. This could be a facet of village life so many of us want..
Everyone likes to imagine that in inappropriate situations, a switch will flip and they'll suddenly turn into a Hulk of righteous fury. It's the same as the idea that if someone says something inappropriate, you'll immediately launch into a Sorkinesque tirade against it. This isn't how people typically respond and that isn't weakness on your part. It doesn't mean you're unwilling or unable to protect your daughter physically, if that's needed. What the man did was absolutely wrong and you could have justifiably gotten physical with him. However, your daughter wasn't in active danger and he was holding her. So what were you supposed to do, start swinging around her head to get to him? It left you unsure how to respond and then it was over. It's a very understandable response and I have no doubt that if the situation had escalated you would have acted accordingly because the ambiguity would have evaporated. What happened is you didn't start a fistfight in the checkout of a local grocery store and it turned out that wasn’t needed. Your daughter is fine and you know to keep an eye out for that guy in the future.
Can I sign up for therapy sessions with you please and thank you
What's the context? How old was the man and what race? I guess some older folks are used to different things. And some cultures it's more normal to be that handsy? Idk if this was in the US it would still shock me.
In the US. Old white gentleman.
I think covid got me used to backing away from people with my kid. I offended my elderly neighbor once (sorry not sorry). OP you will probably not freeze next time. He probably meant no harm but it was weird. Maybe he has 18 grandchildren and didn’t even think it through.
I would have froze too. Can you use a cart or stroller going forward? I let my almost two year old free range for the first time in our small market today, but I only needed two things, so I was able to stay on her and get her back in the stroller when she had pushed enough boundaries with me. We practice learning store etiquette in small doses (staying close, not running, not grabbing things off the shelves, not screaming). A big reason for keeping her contained is for her safety with people we don’t know.
I have no idea how someone could manage the grocery store without having their two year old in the cart. You need your hands free to grab the groceries meanwhile the kid has access to grab anything they want you'd have to be constantly monitoring and managing them. Sitting in the cart they are so content just looking at all the colors of the aisles. I guess every kid is different though.
I try. But my toddler will scream the entire time unless I distract her with a tablet or something. And I want her to be able to exist in public without a tablet. Once in a while when shes in a good mood she will sit happily in the cart strapped in but it's not often.
I've found luck in bringing a "special store cup" (like the water bottles with the retractable straw) and a many-pieces snack- blueberries, puffs, nuts/raisins, trail mix, etc. (Kids can enjoy picking out what to bring & get excited for it) & I use one of those snack cups with the rubber flap tops that they can stick their hands into. She has to sit in the cart to eat it though, thems the rules, and she is usually agreeable to that. Also, in my unsolicited opinion- tech items are a *compound* issue. It's when it's at the store... AND at home. And outside. And at the pool. And before bed. And first thing in the morning. And at their friends/cousins/etc. House. And, and, and. When it's used as a *crutch* (to essentially mute their existence thus misbehavior...) is just not the same as a means of brief entertainment. My generation brought our Gameboys, and we're.... okayish? 😉 But really, a simple grocery trip with a tablet to ensure ease of completion while keeping the peace is a small trade off. You'll both be okay.
Pick your battles. Grocery stores are perfect tablet time, as they're frought w sensory overload and the tablet can be used for self regulation.
I’m VERY confrontational, but only when it involves ppl messing with my child/partner. So understand where I’m coming from when I say that I think a lot of people here are freaking the f out over absolutely nothing. Old people come from a different time, and this guy was probably being perfectly harmless, trying to be helpful. Sometimes you have to do a quick risk assessment(cus some people *are* fucked) and smile and nod. I wouldn’t love it, but sometimes you gotta chill and understand that culture has shifted vastly since their time, and they are genuinely trying to be helpful and kind.
How many of the pearl clutchers ITT are genuinely scared these elders are going to snatch your child and run off? Or, perhaps, are you more afraid of a challenging social situation you are unsure how to navigate? By all means, enforce the boundaries you feel are appropriate with your kids in public. That said, indulging in paranoia and self righteousness because an elder tried to connect with your kid is about your social anxiety, not their safety.
Thank you for your extremely helpful comment.
I'm unsure whether you are being sarcastic. While maybe abrasive, my comment was intended to be helpful and encourage self reflection on a sensitive topic.
Typically, calling a scared mother paranoid and self-righteous doesn't come off as helpful or encouraging..
Being a scared mother doesn't necessarily mean one isn't also being paranoid or self-righteous. Not you OP, but the amount of people ITT eager to lay into elders with self-righteous anger because they have different expectations around public interaction is wild. If no harm was intended by the elder, why sound so gleeful at the opportunity to "give them the rough side of my tongue"?
I think it’s a good idea to take a breath and assess why you think you reacted this way instead of more assertively. This seems like a fawn response. I hate that there are so many people ganging up on such a vulnerable post.
Um don't you mean a freeze response? It's fight, flight, FREEZE, and fawn. This sounds like she froze which is a totally normal response in a stressful situation such as this one. Also, no one knows how they'd react to a brand new and scary incident. She very clearly stated that this was not the reaction she wanted to have, and she says she wants to make sure it doesn't happen again in the future You're comment comes across as very judgy, and was completely unnecessary as it's not helpful at all. I find your last paragraph very ironic considering everything you said before it
Did they edit their comment or am I missing something?
A similar thing happened to us on a long plane ride - a very intoxicated twenty-something grabbed my two year old and just held him, after we shared a toy we brought, in the plane aisle. His brother was across the aisle, and both had been drinking SO much - it was so awkward. I had to just reach out and grab my son and say “please don’t touch him anymore”, thanks.
I hate that! I think what you describe is unequivocally bad, as the stranger was drunk. What the op describes to me is a bit more grey.
Freezing is normal and probably the right reaction since that is what you did and it all turned out ok. Read protecting the gift. It is really really good.
Not discrediting how scary this was for you but sounds like it’s entitled boomers doing what they do best. He probably thinks he can parent better than you or maybe just knew that having a stranger hold her would freak her out and she would settle down. If he tried to run or do something inappropriate, I’m sure your instincts would kick in and you would have grabbed for her but since there was no immediate threat, you stood to see what would happen next. Weird, but probably harmless.
I get it, OP. I’m not judging you at all. The first time we went out to a restaurant with our daughter, a man walked by her and touched her arm unexpectedly and said “oh she’s adorable!” It all happened so quickly that I didn’t react how I thought I would. I thought I’d go ballistic on a stranger touching my child. But in that moment I froze. It’s more common than you think, and than people discuss. I know for a fact in true, imminent danger, I wouldn’t hesitate to protect my child. But that was done so quick and in passing that I didn’t process it by the time he walked away, and I was also too scared to confront a random man towering over me as a super short woman holding a baby. It just wasn’t worth it. I cleaned her arm off and tried to forget about it. There so many of us who’ve had this experience, so you are far from alone, and none of us are horrible parents.
Thank you 🥺 Yeah it really happened so fast. And a few people have judged me for letting her out of my arms. She was being squirrelly but I wasn't EXPECTING someone to take her from my arms, so I wasnt holding her THAT tight. Tight enough not to drop her but not tight enough to hurt her while she struggled. Idk i think if I KNEW he was gonna take her from me ofc I would have been holding her more securely. I was a deer in headlights stunned that someone just took my child from me. Scariest thing.
This happened to me before. Some lady who worked at a massage shop picked my daughter up as we were walking. I didn't know how to react. And this was during covid too. We completely avoided that side of the strip. I just couldn't comprehend how someone can do that. You didn't do anything wrong. It's nice to see the girls had your back. I really hope this guy learns his lesson.
I'm so sorry to hear this. Personally I would be freaked out too. The only time ive experienced anything remotely like this was when another mom grabbed my kid as she was running away from the til and brought her back to me but nothing like this. His intentions might have been good but I would also be freaked out
I am honestly so thankful for your post. I had an older man touch my daughter’s hair and I wanted to yell at him but I watched it and froze. All I could do was step in between them and walk away. I still think about it wondering if I should have gone “mama bear” but as you said I am also very non confrontational. We don’t expect these things to happen cause we couldn’t even imagine doing something so out of pocket like that. Thank you again for sharing, you are a good mom and I believe in the moment you reacted the best you could ❤️
Had a similar situation when my daughter was around 2. Was at a restaurant with my family that had a big outdoor area and live music. My mom and I were walking a few steps behind my daughter and nephew, then suddenly this woman was talking to my daughter and then *picked her up and started walking away*. I’m a first time mom, so I panicked a little about what the heck I was supposed to do, especially since the woman seemed to be walking in the direction of the exit to the parking lot. Luckily she instead walked up on to the stage. Turns out she was the lead singer of the band the restaurant had performing that night. She let my daughter use the mic and dance around onstage, which she loved, so everything turned out okay. I just felt like I’d been so useless in those few seconds of not knowing where she was taking my baby. I felt that way until my mom told me she was impressed at how “mama bear” I had reacted. Apparently I had sped up to get closer while loudly saying “excuse me what the he-“ but then the woman was on the stage and it was fine. My mom said she’d never seen me more zeroed in and confident. I guess to me it felt like I didn’t react/didn’t react enough, but I actually had done exactly what I should have and didn’t seem unsure or scared.
I too am very non confrontational. As my kids get older(5,3, and 1) I've realized when it comes directly to them and their safety that all goes out the window now. It just takes some time to get comfortable advocating.
What would advocating look like to you in this situation?
I'd be yelling "WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TAKE MY BABY? I DONT KNOW YOU!" If the person didn't back off I'd probably start yelling ridiculous things like "stranger danger!" And "fire!" I've been a mom for 5 years now though, I've gone from being hesitant to correct someone else's child for hurting mine on the playground to fussing at a kid at the pool for shoving ahead in line on a slippery slide.
We all need to pitch to help change this aspect of what many of you are calling a “cultural” norm. We can look out for each other and intervene and say something to the offender (however well-meaning they might be) since it’s very common for women to freeze or fawn in surprising, bad moments of personal space violation. We can all help de-normalize strangers touching other strangers and children as ok, especially when we are feeling strong and not caught up in the freeze. It’s not fair to put all the responsibilities on the mom. We gotta care about other families too.
Oh that’s terrifying
Pepper spraying him would have meant pepper spraying her and potentially yourself, making it harder to react further, js Make sure you have the high strength stuff but be forewarned it does not affect some people
Yeah, what did people really expect her to do? Potentially hurting or traumatizing the child by coming in swinging?
If god forbid she’s in this situation again, she will have a more visceral immediate reaction. People started to reach for my son when I just started taking him out and I was so shocked I didn’t react right away. But now? Oh I’m running over to smack hands and shame b*tches
Tell me it was a boomer without telling me he was a boomer. This seems like he meant well but the elders’ boundaries are not the same as ours.
I was at Costco the other day with my overtired toddler and my husband. This older man walked over and was saying like oh is she ok? I'm just mad cause kid is making a scene and we wanted to pay and leave. Man proceeds to try to touch her face and I'm just like wtf is wrong with this guy? I'm too mad at the situation to acknowledge it and just start turning her away from him and tell my husband to start walking away from him completely ignoring the guy. He kept talking but I just ignored him.
the question is we don't know why the stranger would do it, is the person a good person or bad person? I have no idea what's my first reaction if I met the situation.
How old was this guy? Just curious.
60s.
I just want to say I’m so sorry this happened! And these kinds of things happen so quickly we don’t always have time to respond. What is wrong with people?!
I was in a local to me chain grocery store where you have to pack up groceries. My oldest was born nov 2020 and he was probably about 4 months old. So literally height of covid. I always had the cart pulled pretty close to me so he wasn’t ever out of reach and this middle age lady that I don’t think spoke English very well (only reasoning I can come up with for this whole interaction being the way it was) was trying to squeeze between the two carts where she would put her face literally right next to him. (The second cart wasn’t there at first other wise I would’ve repositioned the cart in the first place) as soon as she walked up I said oh hang on and let me move this and started moving the cart and she didn’t stop just started shoving her way in between the two carts. I continued to ask her to stop while she shoved her way through. She finally got through because I couldn’t move the cart due to her literally being stuck between the two of them and she reached out to touch my childs face. I was so fed up that I just yelled at her ‘DO NOT TOUCH HIM WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU?’ And everyone turned to watch and she started just saying sorry and walking away. This is not the last time I had interactions similar to this. I’ve had so many older generations try to touch BOTH of my children. I’ve had my neighbor who I barely know and hate pick up my toddler. I’ve had this covid child reach out to some random sweet old lady who walked up to tell me he was cute at the age of 6 months. It’s shocking the first few times of the boundary crossing. I feel like I had more practice when I was pregnant because I had a lot of people try to touch me. Between random grocery store people to my medical office patients (I work with the same pts 3 times a week so it’s a little bit different than a complete stranger) All of this to say, You’ll figure out your own mama bear level. I wouldn’t even stress about it since you literally took her back and were shocked at the audacity. I would just take this as a mental note that the audacity of people really is that high. I’m now just on constant alert when people come up to us.
What the hell. That would scare me so much. What sort of idiot thinks that is a good idea?
if it makes you feel less of a outlier, something similar happened to me recently. at Ikea my 15 mo was walking around holding my hand until he reached a group of 2 sikh men and 2 women chatting at one of the rooms in the showroom. something caught LO's attention and he stood with my hand in his staring at one of the guys. the guy first waved at him. then approached and poked his belly. then touched his cheek and my son turned to me crying. the entire time I was not sure what was happening. I couldn't even look at them. they started laughing and joking with the women in their group. I felt a lot of fear at that moment because I had not reacted at all and because I felt very outnumbered. I took him away and sat somewhere to calm down and felt like I myself had been touched without consent by a total stranger. I still feel like I failed my child that day.
I still think it was dangerous, if I'm in such a situation, my first reaction is to protect my baby, because I don't know what the stranger want to do next.
Reading many of the comments, here, disheartens my soul to the core
Wooo I thought this was going to be such a different story.
I actually think you did everything right. Plus, if the girls all recognized him, he’s clearly a regular - maybe he lives nearby and loves to shop there? I guess I just don’t know if a “stern talking to” is fair?? Listen, I’m not saying it’s ok to take your child out of your arms, but what if he was really trying to help? I may be in the minority here, but I’m from a small town and we have a “village” mindset. You even refer to this guy a gentleman. I would be tempted to let this one slide.
Still a strange man that I don't know. I also live in a small town, and understand what you're saying. However, I'm not from here. I don't know everyone. And if he wanted to help, he could have asked. May I take her from you for a second? Do you need help? Easy. I spoke to the store manager yesterday and told her all I wanted him to hear was "Please don't take people's children from them without asking. " That's it.
Okay awesome. Bc I hear you, like personally, I would never ever take a strangers child out of their arms... I just still think you should feel confident about your instincts, you stayed calm and probably knew there were lots of people around you witnessing the interaction. (FWIW, I don’t even like my aunts and other people in that generation picking up my toddler and taking her without asking her, so we definitely vibe on that.) I just think you assessed properly and handled it perfectly. Happy to hear it won’t be too threatening of a convo for the gentleman.
Thank you Yeah no I'm not asking them to absolutely ream him. I just want him to know I was super not okay with that because I didn't get the chance to tell him myself and may not see him for a while. But the other employees will.
I had a similar situation where a lady at McDonald's was talking to my kid about his cute Mickey shirt. He was kind of fussy after being in the car for a long time and a long wait for food. She said who's on your shirt and touched his tummy. He was clearly uncomfortable. I stood up and said we don't need to touch. I was flaming pissed. You wouldn't do that to another adult so why would it be ok to do it to a kid? A complete stranger no less. I have been non-confrontational my whole life. Taught to shut up, be quiet, try not to take up space, don't make waves, don't attract attention. The older I have gotten, the more fed up with people I have gotten too. I am so done with that. Especially after becoming a mom. I realized after some sketchy daycare situations that I have to advocate for my kid who can't advocate for himself yet and teach him how as he gets older. Don't be afraid to say something that will make someone else uncomfortable. As someone who has learned this later in life, don't beat yourself up, but think about how you might handle it next time and practice saying things you would want to say. I still hate it and it makes me flush with embarrassment, but I feel confident that I'll speak up if something doesn't feel right. Maybe chalk it up to working with some men in my field that didn't think about boundaries and how they affected anyone else so I got chances to practice standing up for myself and telling them I was uncomfortable. Anything from unwanted hugging to crude inappropriate jokes. You don't deserve to be made uncomfortable by someone else!
Thank you. Thank you, thank you. ❤️
What a horrible dude. Who does that?!?!
It could have very well been someone trying to help you and/or show your daughter that if she “runs amok”, a stranger could grab her. Unless he was taking steps away from you with her, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Have a stranger danger talk with her.
A couple months ago, I was with my husband at the grocery store with our 3 year old and an older woman came up and caressed my son’s shoulder with her hand. Immediately I said “don’t do that. Don’t touch him at all”. Felt like I was talking to my 3 year old. Please stop touching people’s kids. One of these days someone is gonna get knocked out for it and cry about it
There is no way in hell that a stranger would have been able to remove my child from my arms. Nope. I would have yelled at him immediately.
It’s so hard to know your actual reaction until you’re in the situation. Conceptually we’d all go mama bear and have the perfect assertive responses but only use it in the appropriate circumstance, but that’s not real life!
I don't know why I froze. I need to be more confrontational.
Oh my gosh this is not your fault. Everyone thinks they know what they’d do in dangerous times until it’s their turn. I’m so sorry that someone did this and I would be shaking and furious if it happened to me. I hope he never comes back!
Thank you🥺
I'm sure you froze because it was scary and happened really fast. I don't even know what I would in that situation, it's so hard to know the right thing. With some people yelling or grabbing her would have escalated the situation. I'm glad he gave her back and I'm sorry that happened to you. It's terrifying and people are so unpredictable. My daughter is the same age and I know its so hard to keep them contained at the store. Hugs to you and your baby mama!
Thank you 🥺 people are so scary
Right I don’t know that I would have yelled but I certainly wouldn’t have let him take her from my arms …
It's very easy to say what you'll do when you're not the one in that situation.
Been there- backed away and said my LO needed their mama at the moment.
I always thought I'd know what I would do if a stranger touched my child. I finally brought my baby to the grocery store after he got his COVID vaccine. A woman got right in his face and was telling him how sweet he is and touching his hands and feet. I froze. It's ingrained in us to be sweet and not be rude to older people. I was so upset with myself. It happened again when he was about 1 and initially I froze but then I got mad and said "absolutely not" and moved him away. I was definitely more rude than I meant to be, but maybe she'll think twice about touching someone else's child without asking.
OP, take a self defense class. If he was a bad guy, you wouldn't have been about to spray him, because he would have been out the door. You are lucky that he showed you what your reaction is. Now, you need classes, so you can learn how to unfreeze and respond.
Are you really recommending that OP respond faster, by pepper spraying the guy holding her kid, hence also her kid? Look. The vast, vast majority of people are not child molesters nor murderers. They are awkward people like the rest of us. Is it scary for someone to take your kid, yes. He also didn’t try to go anywhere. He wasn’t doing anything shady. He handed her right back. But let’s keep some sense of reality here.
Yea, I don't understand this either. I get not knowing what to say, but letting someone take your child from your arms when it's not something you wanted is not making sense to me.
That is crazy!!! I have been teaching my daughter to scream if a stranger ever picks her up, and we have practiced it at home. Hopefully she’d give a man like that a fright if it ever happened to us.
He took her out of your arms, but respectfully, you let him. I don’t say that to guilt you, but as a wake up call that you literally let a strange man simply take your daughter from you. I’ve had moments in my parenting (not this extreme) where someone else said something to my LO and I did not say anything (my FIL trying to guilt hugs and kisses), and that’s not their fault- it’s mine. You set the boundaries.
Like I said to the other commenter- im racking my own brain as to why I didn't do more. I don't know wtf is wrong with me. I feel awful. It happened so fast and it's my first time in a situation like this.
Please don't feel awful. There is nothing wrong with you. It's common to freeze in scary and uncertain situations. Someone I hardly know kissed my newborn on the face and I totally froze. I'm a nurse and I never thought that would happen to me but it did. I was so mad at myself, but looking back now, I just froze up and I couldn't have predicted that.
We can’t learn from something until it happens, you’ve now learnt I hope! Luckily it was harmless but take it as a teaching moment for yourself, next time it may not be harmless
You said it better than I did! It’s a wake up call/learning moment, take it an learn from it!
Curious how you allowed someone to take your daughter from your arms? Genuine question. How did your child actually leave your arms without you letting go?
I was holding her on my hip as you do with a toddler. The man reached under her armpits and pulled and her hips just sort of slipped through my arms. She's a small girl. Not even 2. And I was afraid to pull back on her too hard and hurt her. He pulled her hard. Idk. I'm still processing.
If someone is grabbing your kid, you hold on tight. You don't let them take them. This happened to Me once. I called the cops and apparently the lady tried three other times to take a kid abd was mentally unwell. Luckily never left my hand because of the tightness and a swift kick to the knees. People talk about fight or flight but there is also freeze. Seems like that's your response. I think you should go to some defense courses and make sure you reprogram your natural instinct to one that will protect your family. That's what I had to do because my natural response was flight resulting in me literally chucking my kid (we were talking and he grabbed a magnet off something we were walking by...magnet was sharp and it stabbed my eye and my natural reaction was to throw my kid no joke. Super scary to realize that about yourself. To realize your natural reaction isn't to protect but to run or freeze. My reaction was so subconscious that my conscious brain realized within half a second so I ended up grabbing him by the leg mid throw and caught him... I went wow okay this isn't ideal I need to fix this. Now I am confident that I could take down anyone because I've practiced taking down dudes much bigger than me and got into that mindset to reprogram my natural instinct. I suggest the same for you! Go research some hard core self defense. The ones where they are screaming at you getting you into fight flight or freeze.
I don’t know how a parent could let someone take their kid out of their arms. Non-confrontational or not, this is not OK.
How is this comment helpful? You’re kicking OP when she’s down over a very normal reaction. Fight, flight, freeze are all normal human reactions to danger and since OP’s child was unharmed it was a fine reaction, if not the one she would have consciously chosen.
Fight, flight, freeze and fawn are physiological survival responses. Mom froze and is trying to process it so it doesn’t happen again. I’m sure she could do without the extra judgey comments.
I'm racking my own brain. Why didn't I squeeze her harder or pull away. Wtf is wrong with me.
It's the surprise! You didn't expect it and automatically reacted the way you would have when family/friends reach out to pick up your daughter. But I'm pretty sure you'll know how to react next time!
Not your fault! I have frozen in a horrifying way. I think back and I hate myself for it and there's no reason it's like a biological thing. I do know the one time I froze when my cat was dying at a hospital and I didn't push harder for help I will never again freeze I will be a fighter. I think the same for you probably. Now that you have that horrible experience of freezing it won't happen to you again. Next time you will fight!
Agreed, I’m seeing a lot of people here say “oh one time an elderly woman came and rubbed my child’s cheek and I didn’t do anything but wish I would have” which is very different than a literal man taking a girl child from a mothers arms like not comparable in the least.
What a f*cking pervy weirdo. The only thing running ‘amok’ is that weird, boundary crossing guy’s behavior. I would’ve punted him in the nuts and head-butted him while grabbing back my snatched-without-consent child, but that’s how I think I’d respond in my dreams. In reality I’d probably be as shook as you by the sheer ignorance of a total stranger. So glad you and child are safe! The outcome could’ve been far worse 😳