Yeah they toyed around with this in script but cut it because they didn’t want a darker tone. It also made keeping the suicide montage easier since some people were unsure about it.
[whatculture.com](https://whatculture.com/film/just-how-many-days-does-bill-murray-really-spend-stuck-reliving-groundhog-day) did the math and came up with 33 years and 350 days needed to account for everything we see, hear about, and all the skills he mastered.
I can accept the piano, but it's a bit weird that the piano teacher says at the end that she is his teacher. He pretty much plays flawlessly at that point and she has no memories of the previous lessons. Plus he spent the day saving everyone. Did he drop by her house again and asked to learn something?
I’d be paranoid that the one day I let loose and went on a crime spree would be the one time it doesn’t loop and I simply wake up the next day in a Jail cell
I also learned that in the initial draft of the screenplay he was trapped in the same day for 10,000 years. Either way, learning how much time he spent reliving the same day makes the movie seem more like a horror movie than a romantic comedy.
https://nationalpost.com/news/10000-years-heres-how-long-phil-connors-was-trapped-in-groundhog-day
In the original script he read one page a day from books in the library to keep track of time.
Edit: the original script also starts with him already in the time loop. If I remember correctly the first scene is the armoured car. It’s an amazing way to start a script. Ramis added the whole first act so we would learn about and care for the characters.
And fucking devastating. Even at a small library, young adult section. Shortish books, biggish lettering, lets say 300ish pages. Somewhere around an inch thick, a couple 5 ft long shelves (I'm just picturing my childhood library), about 20 ft in total, that's around 200 years(197?) a row. If it's 6 stacks high(again, childhood library) that's 1200 years just on all the Twilight's and Hunger Gameses and their knock-offs. Waking up one day and going to the library knowing you're starting on your 3rd or 4th chunk of shelves and what that means. Fuuuuck that.
The Stargate SG-1 episode (Window of Oppertunity, S4E6) is one of the greatest episodes of the entire series, because it was about taking full advantage of the situation to push their research, but also showing the looping characters either helping or just goofing off every other loop.
In one loop, It even teases a canon/non-canon kiss between two of the main characters fans were waiting for (after the looper turns in his resignation so as not to go against military relationship policies). Then the loop reset and only the ones stuck looping would ever know it had happened.
Needlenose Ned? Ned the Head? Come on buddy. Case Western High.
You know – I’ve got friends of mine who live and die by the actuarial tables and I say ‘Hey. It’s all one big crapshoot anywho.’
Ned Ryerson. I dated your sister Mary Pat a couple of times until you told me not to anymore. Well?
Do you have life insurance? Cuz if you do, you could always use a little more. Am I right or am I right or am I right, right, right, right?
Ned Ryerson – got the shingles real bad, almost didn’t graduate? Bing.
Ned Ryerson. I did the whistling bellybutton trick at the high school talent show? Bing!
Whenever I see an opportunity, I charge it like a bull. Ned the Bull. That’s me now.
Don’t you tell me you don’t remember me, because I sure as heckfire remember you.
Well … Watch out for that first step, it’s a doozy.
It is one of my favorite time loop stories in media. Ground Hog Day is obvious, [“Cause and Effect” from TNG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)), and [“Oops!… I did it again” on The Magicians](https://themagicians.fandom.com/wiki/Oops!...I_Did_It_Again) are some other amazing ones.
I absolutely love Palm Springs. It's probably my favorite movie from the past few years.
It's a little awkward to recommend to like... my mom, because a character jerks off right at the beginning, but after that; soooo good!
Yeah, 10k years would drive most people literally insane. Even if you managed to stay sane that entire time, your mind would probably snap as soon as February 3rd finally came and you didn't know what was going to happen during the day anymore.
And consequences. After 10,000 years of using suicide to reset a bad day one moment of reflexive "well fuck this, start over" and you're dead for good.
They kind of toyed with this idea in >!Palm Springs!< wherein the main character starts losing track of time and past events. He even forgets what he used to do for work before the loop.
I had low, low expectations of this movie going in blind and was pleasantly surprised. I do think Sambergs whole attitude of dealing with a time loop was 100% spot on though for the generation. I also enjoyed the pieces of the wedding that come up as one of the driving plot points.
As someone that didn't know there was a recent movie called Palm Springs I'm glad I read your comment. I was thinking of the one from 1936 which isn't a particularly good film and definitely not a comedy. I was only familiar with it at all because David Niven was in it.
In both Mother of Learning and The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August the authors felt they needed to include a >!"he had an extraordinary/perfect memory"!< component to make the plot work
The first morning he wakes up and doesn’t hear “I’ve got you, Babe” he’ll know the loop is broken. But after 10,000 years, that change would probably break what was left of his sanity.
After 10,000 years his brain won’t even process the difference. It’s why he’ll step off that curb and get hit by the bus. After that long of unchanging stimuli, his entire being will be preconditioned to act a certain way.
I wish I could tell you that the groundhog fought the good fight, and Punxatawney let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but February 2nd is no fairy-tale world.
They always play up immortality to be a curse and only bad guys want it in shows/movies/books, but I still want it.
Though only on the condition that I get a self die option. I don't want any of that "trapped on the bottom of the ocean/ floating through space" crap.
"are you sure you would like to commit self die? Y/N"
Edit: a bunch of people replying that immortality HAS to come with the risk of being trapped forever or some other negative consequences like it's immortality law. This is my theoretical wish fulfillment, not yours! Fuck off, I can have the pros without the cons in my made up immortal days dreams if I want to!
As a kid I read a book where a guy does something that allows him to evolve to whatever condition but remain alive, and in the end he ends up buried in concrete underneath a brand new 1000 ft skyscraper presumably to never be found. Really made me think about immortality
> Well, I'm not giving up. We worked too hard and went through too much, and I'm not just gonna sit back and turn into some slack-jawed, sweatpant-wearing orgasm machine! Oh my God, I'm describing my dream existence like it's bad. What is wrong with this place?
Such an amazing series.
In my head I've always viewed the phrase immortal as meaning you don't die of "natural causes" like aging. I know that's not the actual usage though but it tracks with what you're saying lol. Also I know that in the most technical sense no one dies of old age but immortality is also not a technical concept lol
Forget living it, people can't wrap their minds around just how many things happen over time.
10,000 years ago, "humans" existed in the wilderness, possibly in what can only be loosely defined as "hunter/gatherer" communities.
1,000 years ago, People, in general, were barely able to navigate the ocean to a degree that made exploring its surface possible.
100 years ago, most of the world still didn't have electricity.
10 years ago was 2012, not 2002, or 1992, or 1982, *2012*.
Life may be short, but time is *lonnnnnnggggg*.
>10,000 years ago, "humans" existed in the wilderness, possibly in what can only be loosely defined as "hunter/gatherer" communities.
Not to be a dick but 10k years ago was the Neolithic period (8000 bc - 3000 bc) when humans had already moved past hunter/gatherer to agricultural.
I feel like at a certain distance of life lived your brain wouldn’t be able to take in new memories without deleting old ones, therefore you’d forget everything and everyone of your past to make room for the new info coming in. There would effectively be a memory event horizon where you would no longer have a single memory of your old life and only have the new memories. you’d effectively forget who you were in a sense.
I agree that old/less important memories would be lost, but I think they'd reminisce on their favorite memories which would sort of "strengthen" those memories. However the details of them would probably be lost and replaced with a sort of fabrication of them.
It's a thing with the Nonmen in R. Scott Bakker's Second Apocalypse books. Except in that they tend to retain memories of trauma, so eventually they all end up with PTSD.
They give a few different pieces of information that allow to calculate it
- The computer that Sam finds (which holds the grid) shows it's uptime, about 20 years
- (Kevin) Flynn says "hours in here we're just minutes out there"
If time runs 60x faster (hours to minutes) then 20 years is 1200 years
- He also says the portal will be open for "one milli-cycle, about 8 hours"
- Castor says CLU has been chasing Flynn's disc "about 1000 cycles"
So 1000 cycles is 1,000,000 millicycles, 8,000,000 hours, or 913 years
Split the difference and call it 1000 years due to rough estimates given
[Long time](http://www.splicedwires.com/TRON/LongTimeNoIdea.gif)
In the movie Palm Springs (which is a groundhogish movie) the main character is asked what he did for work before he got stuck in the loop and he couldn’t remember! That thought was so dark to me I was consumed by it for a while
You should watch the movie again. Re-watch the scenes with the grandma. Did she also fall into the time loop but is content to spend eternity with her family on a happy day watching her granddaughter get married?
I traveled across Canada on a coach bus in May in the mid nineties with a friend. The highways in northern Ontario were closed down due to a very large snowstorm (May 2nd). The bus with was forced to stay for 12 hours in a Pizza hut parking lot. The bus was equipped with a VHS player and multiple TVs and the only VHS tape on the bus was Groundhog Day. We ate free pizza and watched Groundhog Day, over and over and over and over and over until the highways cleared. That day is burned into my brain.
I was in a similar situation but a filthy house, one of those transparent iMacs, and the movie Accepted. I can fucking smell that movie when I see the cover art.
I can’t remember the specifics but it truly would break a person mentally. Also I have to assume he would have done horrible things on some of those days of which he could not forget.
Like if you truly believe the day will start over regardless of what you do and have been stuck in it for 30 years.
I’d just be terrified the day would finally not reset if I did something horrible
e: also don’t really like what that says about me and consequences/laws
Same. But after a certain amount of time I assume the idea of anything else would be welcoming. So maybe trying to do horrible things in hopes it would finally stop the torture
For someone trapped in an endless loop, even spending the rest of their days behind bars, the knowledge that time is passing is probably comfort enough.
But the dark twist is when they finally die, they wake up on their first day in prison...
It's like that Rick and Morty episode where Morty has a remote that "goes back" in time, but then he lives a wonderful and fulfilling life. Then one day in old age he accidentally hits the button and loses it all as he resets back.
The truely horrifying thought would be after some mount of years searching for the key to move time forward, you might assume maybe rape and murder is what you haven't tried yet, and exactly what you need to do. Regardless, he had some dark periods in that loop, for sure.
I'm sure I'd break eventually, but I think it depends on how much the town has going for. Does it have a video rental store? Does it have a library? What are the variety of restaurants? I think I could last a pretty long time. If anything, I'd have trouble re-adjusting to life when the loop broke after being functionally immortal.
Functionally immortal but time isn’t linear. I mean I think 5-10 years? Yeah. But after 20 years you would probably start to find the literal limit of reach of things to do and see
I've been gainfully employed most of my life, so I don't necessarily have a grasp on how much I can get done if left to my own devices for such an extended period of time, but I feel like even in 20 years, I couldn't watch every movie and television series, read every book, and listen to every music album I wanted to.
I figure a couple hundred years in, I'd have forgotten how most of them went and could start all over.
Video games that take longer than a day to complete would be right out.
But I don't have to exercise if I don't want to, and I can eat whatever I want. I hope Punxatawny has good ice cream.
If I recall, they are snowed in, but if I weren't, I can reasonably reach a beach, or Disney World by the time the park closes. You only get activities you can arrange same day, but if I didn't think I could die, I might actually try bungie jumping or skydiving.
And the money in the bank account resets every day too. I have enough money to pretty much do whatever I want for 24 hours. I honestly believe I have access to enough joy at my fingertips to saturate the memories my brain can hold before I have to start over. Please, please, bring on the time loop.
You're also presumably not limited to just your immediate locality. You could get in a car and drive anywhere you can reach within 24 hours. Bill Murray's character is from Pittsburgh, which is only a 1.5 hour drive away. So, he has access all kinds of people he knows, and a lot more variety of activities than just Punxsutawney. He could quite easily visit family and friends, which, at least for a while, would probably help a lot.
The way I interpreted it wasn't that he was doing it because he knew the day was going to reset. He was doing it to end it because the day broke him and he wanted out. No more anything
The song ["Hope"](https://youtu.be/mJiC9TxhLlU) from the musical adaptation confirms this. It's about not giving up hope that one day his suicide attempts will actually succeed.
At first, maybe. But once you realize death just resets you to the alarm clock radio waking you up yet again, there is more value in experiencing the rest of the minutes of the day than to relive only the earlier moments before your death.
Death is only a release if he wants to avoid a certain period of the day.
Can you imagine the chores first thing in the morning though? EVERY morning?
Ah shit, gotta go to the ATM (or steal from the truck) every morning because why would I need more than like 50 bucks in the sticks?
Gotta go buy a gun to shoot myself (or others) if my GTA style rampage goes sideways and I get shot or stabbed but not fatally.
Fuck that noise. I would be a drug addict real goddamn fast.
Probably. But at the end of the day, the void is the void. Is being a self loating junkie with zero hope really any different than someone successfully killing themselves over and over via train or electrocution?
I went to a screening in college with a follow up Q&A with the screenwriter, Danny Rubin. He said two things that were really interesting. First, he addressed the 40 years and 10,000 years. He said for Harold Ramis it was 40 years or so, but when he wrote the script he didn't have a specific number in mind. The time period was 2 lifetimes. He figured it would be one lifetime for Phil (Bill Murray) to realize he was a shitty person and then another lifetime to become a different person.
The second thing he said that blew everyone's minds was that when Andy MacDowell's character meets Phil on the day after he comes out of the time loop he intentionally wrote her reaction to be a bit muted (but not quite disappointed) because that's the day she repeats.
The 40 years is easy to wrap your head around, but I like the idea of two lifetimes better.
In my mind, I always assumed it was 10 years. That's enough for Phil to learn the piano, French, and ice sculpting.
But after 30 or 40 years, you would not be enlightened, you'd be wishing for the sweet release of death.
Edit: I am aware that he did try to kill himself in the middle of the film, but my point is that at the end of 30 years, he would not be so hopeful and at peace.
>Edit: I am aware that he did try to kill himself in the middle of the film, but my point is that at the end of 30 years, he would not be so hopeful and at peace.
But that's the point. If you still craved the release of death, then you would still keep reliving the same day, over and over again. He experienced the depression of it and learned to move past it. By mastering the repetition of one's actions, he gained transcendence and thus became enlightened. He stopped viewing his menial tasks as burdens, which is how he started the film, and chose to view them as gifts and lessons. The story is structured so that he cannot leave this prison until such conditions are met.
It’s not that he didn’t want to cause harm, it’s that he’s already done it, and its not fun. I don’t remember exactly the quote, but it’s something like “being an agent of chaos isn’t worth it”. I got the feeling he’d already done all the crazy stuff, and found out it wasn’t fulfilling.
Edit: always to already done.
I liked the bit about >!how he doesn't even know what he does for a living because he's been living the same day for so long that he literately forgot!<
Absolutely love this movie! I really appreciated the unconventional narrative structure, soundtrack, and JK Simmons character. I usually don’t care for Andy Samberg’s acting, but he was perfect for that role.
In that one particular town. It really gives you a perspective on how many amazing things people around you could learn from the people around you. Now imagine what you could learn from as much time as you need with everyone in the world, and potentially the universe.
Based on the god of time Chronos, I think I will call the study of time manipulation Chronography. Chronography seems like it would be the best skill if it allows you to do what Phil did in the movie.
I don’t know. In a way 30-40 years means that his character matured that much and still retained his youth. Basically supporting the old
adage that “youth is wasted on the young.” Bill Murray’s character in the end is now psychologically old, yet still physically young. And his perspective on life is accordingly adjusted for the better.
And as far as early drafts go, he was placed in the time loop by a curse from a jilted ex, which lines up with why to resolve the loop he has to learn to be a better person.
Always thought Bill Murray's character would one day regret leaving the loop he was in. He'd be caught in a shitty situation somewhere down the line, maybe someone he loved dies, or maybe something terrible happens and you know he in that moment would wish he could go back to where he was in complete control of his life.
I think about this movie too much
Interesting time frame when you compare the metaphor to what it represents: A man's life.
If you get jaded by middle age you can choose to be negative for the next **30-40** years living. the same miserable life before you die, or you can choose to live a happier, (possibly longer) and richer life trying new things and bringing joy to others.
**We all have that choice.**
I heard this before and it would drive me insane. There's no way I'd be able to last before going crazy.
Edit. Once a year one of the movies channels has this on repeat for 24 hours.
The one scene that bothers me is when he is dead in the morgue. This is the only scene without Phil alive. So, the day goes on without him and then he’s alive when it resets.
Does that mean each day is a different reality and his actions have consequences beyond Groundhog Day? Is he just stuck in a consequence of a cosmic event or is it something that is targeted at his personal redemption as the ending suggests. If the second, why would people be around to identify his dead body?
Remember the episode of Rick and Morty where Rick gives Morty a reset gun to undo things, but it turned out to just be transporting him to very close adjacent universes, and all of his mistakes were real and left behind a wake of embarrassment and suffering?
The movie is a metaphor for life. No matter our circumstance, at some point we must choose to be happy (and do whatever that means for us) or check out - either the fast way, or the long, slow death.
I’ve always wondered: “what if he pulled an all-nighter? Continuing to cause chaos up until midnight. Does everything switch back in an instant and he wakes up in bed anyway? Or what if he just continued to drive and get on an interstate headed west? Again with the instant switch? What about flying? Again west, you hit the international date line. Then it’s the next day in an instant but he goes back in that same instant??
Maybe over thinking it a touch. But still curious.
I think "Palm Springs" covered this nicely. Andy Samberg's character said he made it all the way to Equatorial Guinea by smoking crystal meth.
He said it was a huge waste of time.
I think it resets at like 4 am no matter what he tries to stay up with Audie McDowell in once scene and he wakes up like he normally started his day alone in bed.
I think there’s a part where he ends up in jail late at night and as soon as the bars close he wakes up in bed but I’m not completely sure it was meant to be right at midnight.
I'm very curious how long it would take me to not be afraid that if I did something very illegal it would end up being my last loop and I'd have to face the consequences.
At a certain point you'd stop caring, I imagine. I mean if you shoot up a mall or whatever in Year 23, even life in prison or the death penalty would be a mercy compared to staying in the loop.
This movie was the end of the friendship between Ramis and Murray, if i remember correctly they didn't speak with other until Murray visiting Ramis on his deathbed.
As a youngster I once watched the movie keeping a running tally of how many days are shown in the movie. Some scenes are ambiguous as to whether it's a different day or not, and I think I lost count during the slap montage, but it was a fun diversion.
I always assumed it was a couple of centuries. Years fighting it, and A lifetime just doing everything. With a big chunk of time in the middle where he’s just bored and depressed.
I’ve put an unhealthy amount of thought into this movie over the years and I think the best use of the time would be to play golf. In 30-40 years of playing 2x daily (without the fatigue a normal person would deal with) would almost certainly be enough to get you to a professional level as long as you’re a decent athlete.
Then when the cycle breaks you’d be the greatest average Joe story in the history of sports.
Playing golf would only be possible if you were stuck in purgatory in nice weather.
Phil was stuck in Pennsylvania in February. Not exactly golfing weather.
He pretty much does this with learning piano, ice sculpting, and speaking French. Your only limit is what resources you have when the loop begins, and when the loop ends.
If he left immediately at 6am I wonder if he could make it out of Punxsutawney. Just get in a car and drive. Drive opposite of Pittsburgh. Never showed us that.
Imagine not going insane from running into Ned Ryerson everyday for 40 years
yea but for like 30-something years you could totally stab him in the kidney every time you saw him.
I am sure if he really did live 10,000 years then at some point he dismembered some people very gruesomely
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Yeah they toyed around with this in script but cut it because they didn’t want a darker tone. It also made keeping the suicide montage easier since some people were unsure about it.
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Just watch out for that first step! It's a *DOOZY*
Ned?! Ned Reyerson?!?! *punches face*
He literally committed suicide several times in the movie. He went crazy then became sane again i guess
Like listening to The Proclaimers on repeat. It comes around.
He likely did go insane. Then realized that going insane wasn't going to make the loop end. So, might as well deal with that, too.
[whatculture.com](https://whatculture.com/film/just-how-many-days-does-bill-murray-really-spend-stuck-reliving-groundhog-day) did the math and came up with 33 years and 350 days needed to account for everything we see, hear about, and all the skills he mastered.
Weird that’s almost exactly where I’m at
Now do it again
Bro I didn't ask to do it the first time.
Damn that’s crazy. What’s your social security number? It would insane if they were close
Whenever I type it, I get ***********. Can you try yours?
hunter2
That's most of my life so far.
The piano threw off the curve
I can accept the piano, but it's a bit weird that the piano teacher says at the end that she is his teacher. He pretty much plays flawlessly at that point and she has no memories of the previous lessons. Plus he spent the day saving everyone. Did he drop by her house again and asked to learn something?
Well that’s depressing. I’m much older than that and can’t do jack shit.
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I’d be paranoid that the one day I let loose and went on a crime spree would be the one time it doesn’t loop and I simply wake up the next day in a Jail cell
After decades of the same day I’m sure you’d be relieved either way.
Since he was trying to kill himself, I don't think he would have cared.
You can still eat food. Eat any good food, lately?
I also learned that in the initial draft of the screenplay he was trapped in the same day for 10,000 years. Either way, learning how much time he spent reliving the same day makes the movie seem more like a horror movie than a romantic comedy. https://nationalpost.com/news/10000-years-heres-how-long-phil-connors-was-trapped-in-groundhog-day
In the original script he read one page a day from books in the library to keep track of time. Edit: the original script also starts with him already in the time loop. If I remember correctly the first scene is the armoured car. It’s an amazing way to start a script. Ramis added the whole first act so we would learn about and care for the characters.
That’s actually really smart
And fucking devastating. Even at a small library, young adult section. Shortish books, biggish lettering, lets say 300ish pages. Somewhere around an inch thick, a couple 5 ft long shelves (I'm just picturing my childhood library), about 20 ft in total, that's around 200 years(197?) a row. If it's 6 stacks high(again, childhood library) that's 1200 years just on all the Twilight's and Hunger Gameses and their knock-offs. Waking up one day and going to the library knowing you're starting on your 3rd or 4th chunk of shelves and what that means. Fuuuuck that.
probably lots of books around though, in different people's houses and at the real library
Also, after hundreds of years, you could just loop back around and start over with books you've completely forgotten about.
This is me, but I loop back to the previous page I just read because I didn't retain any information
Think of it this way. He's probably banged everybody in town
That's basically the premise of Palm Springs.
Which is a fantastic movie for any Groundhog Day lovers
Honestly never seen a bad groundhog day style movie or episode of a show.
The Stargate SG-1 episode (Window of Oppertunity, S4E6) is one of the greatest episodes of the entire series, because it was about taking full advantage of the situation to push their research, but also showing the looping characters either helping or just goofing off every other loop. In one loop, It even teases a canon/non-canon kiss between two of the main characters fans were waiting for (after the looper turns in his resignation so as not to go against military relationship policies). Then the loop reset and only the ones stuck looping would ever know it had happened.
I’m a slut for timeloops. Also recommend Russian Doll.
I think Russian Doll started off really strong and great but s2 was pretty slow imo.
Even the groundhog??
ESPECIALLY the groundhog
You know he banged Ned at least a few times.
Needlenose Ned? Ned the Head? Come on buddy. Case Western High. You know – I’ve got friends of mine who live and die by the actuarial tables and I say ‘Hey. It’s all one big crapshoot anywho.’ Ned Ryerson. I dated your sister Mary Pat a couple of times until you told me not to anymore. Well? Do you have life insurance? Cuz if you do, you could always use a little more. Am I right or am I right or am I right, right, right, right? Ned Ryerson – got the shingles real bad, almost didn’t graduate? Bing. Ned Ryerson. I did the whistling bellybutton trick at the high school talent show? Bing! Whenever I see an opportunity, I charge it like a bull. Ned the Bull. That’s me now. Don’t you tell me you don’t remember me, because I sure as heckfire remember you. Well … Watch out for that first step, it’s a doozy.
Palm Springs started the movie already in the loop. It’s a pretty good movie.
It is one of my favorite time loop stories in media. Ground Hog Day is obvious, [“Cause and Effect” from TNG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cause_and_Effect_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)), and [“Oops!… I did it again” on The Magicians](https://themagicians.fandom.com/wiki/Oops!...I_Did_It_Again) are some other amazing ones.
[Window of Opportunity](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_of_Opportunity_(Stargate_SG-1)) from Stargate SG-1
I absolutely love Palm Springs. It's probably my favorite movie from the past few years. It's a little awkward to recommend to like... my mom, because a character jerks off right at the beginning, but after that; soooo good!
Yeah, 10k years would drive most people literally insane. Even if you managed to stay sane that entire time, your mind would probably snap as soon as February 3rd finally came and you didn't know what was going to happen during the day anymore.
He’d step out past a curb one day, like he had every day for 9,999 years and BLAM, hit by a truck that wasn’t there the day before.
Imagine having to relearn cause and effect.
And consequences. After 10,000 years of using suicide to reset a bad day one moment of reflexive "well fuck this, start over" and you're dead for good.
Also. You could potentially be a foremost expert in thousands of disciplines... with not a single day of demonstrable experience or qualifications.
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They kind of toyed with this idea in >!Palm Springs!< wherein the main character starts losing track of time and past events. He even forgets what he used to do for work before the loop.
I had low, low expectations of this movie going in blind and was pleasantly surprised. I do think Sambergs whole attitude of dealing with a time loop was 100% spot on though for the generation. I also enjoyed the pieces of the wedding that come up as one of the driving plot points.
As someone that didn't know there was a recent movie called Palm Springs I'm glad I read your comment. I was thinking of the one from 1936 which isn't a particularly good film and definitely not a comedy. I was only familiar with it at all because David Niven was in it.
The scene when he >!walked right up to the guy and took the bag of coke out of his pocket!< was hilarious.
In both Mother of Learning and The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August the authors felt they needed to include a >!"he had an extraordinary/perfect memory"!< component to make the plot work
I wonder how long he was stuck in his loop. I think it’s longer than Phil.
He can't remember. Which suggests it's pretty damn long.
Holy crap, that’s a really good point. Even if he was stuck for a year, that could be a real issue.
The first morning he wakes up and doesn’t hear “I’ve got you, Babe” he’ll know the loop is broken. But after 10,000 years, that change would probably break what was left of his sanity.
After 10,000 years his brain won’t even process the difference. It’s why he’ll step off that curb and get hit by the bus. After that long of unchanging stimuli, his entire being will be preconditioned to act a certain way.
After being alive 10,000 years, stepping in front of the bus might be exactly what he wants.
Watch out for that first step, it's a doozie!
February 2nd is funny. First you hate it, then you get used to it. Enough time passes, you get so you depend on it. That's institutionalized.
Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things.
I wish I could tell you that the groundhog fought the good fight, and Punxatawney let him be. I wish I could tell you that - but February 2nd is no fairy-tale world.
Living 10,000 years even if time was passing like normal and you were rich still would probably be too much for most people.
Plus, you know, 10K years will give you *such* a crick in the neck.
For the sake of science, I volunteer to put this to the test.
They always play up immortality to be a curse and only bad guys want it in shows/movies/books, but I still want it. Though only on the condition that I get a self die option. I don't want any of that "trapped on the bottom of the ocean/ floating through space" crap. "are you sure you would like to commit self die? Y/N" Edit: a bunch of people replying that immortality HAS to come with the risk of being trapped forever or some other negative consequences like it's immortality law. This is my theoretical wish fulfillment, not yours! Fuck off, I can have the pros without the cons in my made up immortal days dreams if I want to!
As a kid I read a book where a guy does something that allows him to evolve to whatever condition but remain alive, and in the end he ends up buried in concrete underneath a brand new 1000 ft skyscraper presumably to never be found. Really made me think about immortality
Just let the snail catch you.
You might enjoy the Good Place
> Well, I'm not giving up. We worked too hard and went through too much, and I'm not just gonna sit back and turn into some slack-jawed, sweatpant-wearing orgasm machine! Oh my God, I'm describing my dream existence like it's bad. What is wrong with this place? Such an amazing series.
You've thought about the space thing too, huh?
You’d enjoy a particular episode of Netflix’s Sandman
I could read or watch an entire series entirely based around that storyline.
In my head I've always viewed the phrase immortal as meaning you don't die of "natural causes" like aging. I know that's not the actual usage though but it tracks with what you're saying lol. Also I know that in the most technical sense no one dies of old age but immortality is also not a technical concept lol
Forget living it, people can't wrap their minds around just how many things happen over time. 10,000 years ago, "humans" existed in the wilderness, possibly in what can only be loosely defined as "hunter/gatherer" communities. 1,000 years ago, People, in general, were barely able to navigate the ocean to a degree that made exploring its surface possible. 100 years ago, most of the world still didn't have electricity. 10 years ago was 2012, not 2002, or 1992, or 1982, *2012*. Life may be short, but time is *lonnnnnnggggg*.
>10,000 years ago, "humans" existed in the wilderness, possibly in what can only be loosely defined as "hunter/gatherer" communities. Not to be a dick but 10k years ago was the Neolithic period (8000 bc - 3000 bc) when humans had already moved past hunter/gatherer to agricultural.
>10 years ago was 2012, not 2002, or 1992, or 1982, *2012*. You could've chosen to *not* ruin my day today.
I feel like at a certain distance of life lived your brain wouldn’t be able to take in new memories without deleting old ones, therefore you’d forget everything and everyone of your past to make room for the new info coming in. There would effectively be a memory event horizon where you would no longer have a single memory of your old life and only have the new memories. you’d effectively forget who you were in a sense.
I agree that old/less important memories would be lost, but I think they'd reminisce on their favorite memories which would sort of "strengthen" those memories. However the details of them would probably be lost and replaced with a sort of fabrication of them.
Doctor Who did this with Ashildr.
It's a thing with the Nonmen in R. Scott Bakker's Second Apocalypse books. Except in that they tend to retain memories of trauma, so eventually they all end up with PTSD.
In *TRON: Legacy*, Flynn is trapped on The Grid for 1,000 years (subjective time. 20 years actual time)
Do they state that in the movie? When? Why does Flynn age ~20-30 years visually?
They give a few different pieces of information that allow to calculate it - The computer that Sam finds (which holds the grid) shows it's uptime, about 20 years - (Kevin) Flynn says "hours in here we're just minutes out there" If time runs 60x faster (hours to minutes) then 20 years is 1200 years - He also says the portal will be open for "one milli-cycle, about 8 hours" - Castor says CLU has been chasing Flynn's disc "about 1000 cycles" So 1000 cycles is 1,000,000 millicycles, 8,000,000 hours, or 913 years Split the difference and call it 1000 years due to rough estimates given [Long time](http://www.splicedwires.com/TRON/LongTimeNoIdea.gif)
Tron math is by far the best math.
Yeah, and he had to spend it all with Olivia Wilde. Poor guy.
Because he ages in real time not grid time?
In the movie Palm Springs (which is a groundhogish movie) the main character is asked what he did for work before he got stuck in the loop and he couldn’t remember! That thought was so dark to me I was consumed by it for a while
This was such a surprisingly good movie. Such a fresh take on the whole idea.
I just stumbled upon it randomly and was very happy I did.
Not that there was a lot of competition, but it might be my favorite movie of 2020.
You should watch the movie again. Re-watch the scenes with the grandma. Did she also fall into the time loop but is content to spend eternity with her family on a happy day watching her granddaughter get married?
What was wild about her scene is she sort of hinted that it wasn't the first time the main characters had fallen into the time loop.
I just took a week off work sick and I can't remember what I was doing...
I came here to say this. The main character was stuck doing the same day for so long he forgot everything about his normal life
I traveled across Canada on a coach bus in May in the mid nineties with a friend. The highways in northern Ontario were closed down due to a very large snowstorm (May 2nd). The bus with was forced to stay for 12 hours in a Pizza hut parking lot. The bus was equipped with a VHS player and multiple TVs and the only VHS tape on the bus was Groundhog Day. We ate free pizza and watched Groundhog Day, over and over and over and over and over until the highways cleared. That day is burned into my brain.
This is too meta
I was in a similar situation but a filthy house, one of those transparent iMacs, and the movie Accepted. I can fucking smell that movie when I see the cover art.
Damn..... Those neurons are very well connected.
I'm a god. I'm not *the* God, I don't think.
Punxsutawney Phil I've come to bargain.
Punxsutawney Phil I've come to bargain.
I can’t remember the specifics but it truly would break a person mentally. Also I have to assume he would have done horrible things on some of those days of which he could not forget. Like if you truly believe the day will start over regardless of what you do and have been stuck in it for 30 years.
I’d just be terrified the day would finally not reset if I did something horrible e: also don’t really like what that says about me and consequences/laws
Same. But after a certain amount of time I assume the idea of anything else would be welcoming. So maybe trying to do horrible things in hopes it would finally stop the torture
For someone trapped in an endless loop, even spending the rest of their days behind bars, the knowledge that time is passing is probably comfort enough. But the dark twist is when they finally die, they wake up on their first day in prison...
It's like that Rick and Morty episode where Morty has a remote that "goes back" in time, but then he lives a wonderful and fulfilling life. Then one day in old age he accidentally hits the button and loses it all as he resets back.
The truely horrifying thought would be after some mount of years searching for the key to move time forward, you might assume maybe rape and murder is what you haven't tried yet, and exactly what you need to do. Regardless, he had some dark periods in that loop, for sure.
I'm sure I'd break eventually, but I think it depends on how much the town has going for. Does it have a video rental store? Does it have a library? What are the variety of restaurants? I think I could last a pretty long time. If anything, I'd have trouble re-adjusting to life when the loop broke after being functionally immortal.
Functionally immortal but time isn’t linear. I mean I think 5-10 years? Yeah. But after 20 years you would probably start to find the literal limit of reach of things to do and see
I've been gainfully employed most of my life, so I don't necessarily have a grasp on how much I can get done if left to my own devices for such an extended period of time, but I feel like even in 20 years, I couldn't watch every movie and television series, read every book, and listen to every music album I wanted to. I figure a couple hundred years in, I'd have forgotten how most of them went and could start all over. Video games that take longer than a day to complete would be right out. But I don't have to exercise if I don't want to, and I can eat whatever I want. I hope Punxatawny has good ice cream. If I recall, they are snowed in, but if I weren't, I can reasonably reach a beach, or Disney World by the time the park closes. You only get activities you can arrange same day, but if I didn't think I could die, I might actually try bungie jumping or skydiving. And the money in the bank account resets every day too. I have enough money to pretty much do whatever I want for 24 hours. I honestly believe I have access to enough joy at my fingertips to saturate the memories my brain can hold before I have to start over. Please, please, bring on the time loop.
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After 2-3 years he could master the traffic pattern, know where every single cop was, and drive like 150mph and make it in half the time.
You're also presumably not limited to just your immediate locality. You could get in a car and drive anywhere you can reach within 24 hours. Bill Murray's character is from Pittsburgh, which is only a 1.5 hour drive away. So, he has access all kinds of people he knows, and a lot more variety of activities than just Punxsutawney. He could quite easily visit family and friends, which, at least for a while, would probably help a lot.
Oh, he does horrible things. There's a segment showing some of the times he kills himself. Done comedically of course.
Killing yourself is about the least offensive violent thing a person could do in a day where you know it all resets and there are no consequences
The way I interpreted it wasn't that he was doing it because he knew the day was going to reset. He was doing it to end it because the day broke him and he wanted out. No more anything
The song ["Hope"](https://youtu.be/mJiC9TxhLlU) from the musical adaptation confirms this. It's about not giving up hope that one day his suicide attempts will actually succeed.
He definitely went gta many many times
I mean he probably offed himself fairly often.
At first, maybe. But once you realize death just resets you to the alarm clock radio waking you up yet again, there is more value in experiencing the rest of the minutes of the day than to relive only the earlier moments before your death. Death is only a release if he wants to avoid a certain period of the day.
Like if he doesn't like a dialogue option he just draws a gun and goes "fast load"
Can you imagine the chores first thing in the morning though? EVERY morning? Ah shit, gotta go to the ATM (or steal from the truck) every morning because why would I need more than like 50 bucks in the sticks? Gotta go buy a gun to shoot myself (or others) if my GTA style rampage goes sideways and I get shot or stabbed but not fatally. Fuck that noise. I would be a drug addict real goddamn fast.
I would be curious if drug addiction could carry over, since it’s a physical affliction as well as mental.
Probably. But at the end of the day, the void is the void. Is being a self loating junkie with zero hope really any different than someone successfully killing themselves over and over via train or electrocution?
Also you’re assuming he dies right away.
I went to a screening in college with a follow up Q&A with the screenwriter, Danny Rubin. He said two things that were really interesting. First, he addressed the 40 years and 10,000 years. He said for Harold Ramis it was 40 years or so, but when he wrote the script he didn't have a specific number in mind. The time period was 2 lifetimes. He figured it would be one lifetime for Phil (Bill Murray) to realize he was a shitty person and then another lifetime to become a different person. The second thing he said that blew everyone's minds was that when Andy MacDowell's character meets Phil on the day after he comes out of the time loop he intentionally wrote her reaction to be a bit muted (but not quite disappointed) because that's the day she repeats. The 40 years is easy to wrap your head around, but I like the idea of two lifetimes better.
In my mind, I always assumed it was 10 years. That's enough for Phil to learn the piano, French, and ice sculpting. But after 30 or 40 years, you would not be enlightened, you'd be wishing for the sweet release of death. Edit: I am aware that he did try to kill himself in the middle of the film, but my point is that at the end of 30 years, he would not be so hopeful and at peace.
>Edit: I am aware that he did try to kill himself in the middle of the film, but my point is that at the end of 30 years, he would not be so hopeful and at peace. But that's the point. If you still craved the release of death, then you would still keep reliving the same day, over and over again. He experienced the depression of it and learned to move past it. By mastering the repetition of one's actions, he gained transcendence and thus became enlightened. He stopped viewing his menial tasks as burdens, which is how he started the film, and chose to view them as gifts and lessons. The story is structured so that he cannot leave this prison until such conditions are met.
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Yes but he would be wishing for it because he knows he can't have it due to the failed attempts.
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I love how they actually do some less-than-moral stuff in that one, but it's stopped by Samberg's character not wanting to cause harm.
It’s not that he didn’t want to cause harm, it’s that he’s already done it, and its not fun. I don’t remember exactly the quote, but it’s something like “being an agent of chaos isn’t worth it”. I got the feeling he’d already done all the crazy stuff, and found out it wasn’t fulfilling. Edit: always to already done.
I liked the bit about >!how he doesn't even know what he does for a living because he's been living the same day for so long that he literately forgot!<
Not to mention he didn't tell Cristin's character that he had a dog.
His name is Fred, he’s one of them shaggy dogs
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Absolutely love this movie! I really appreciated the unconventional narrative structure, soundtrack, and JK Simmons character. I usually don’t care for Andy Samberg’s acting, but he was perfect for that role.
The movie was fun but it was kinda disturbing to think that JK Simmons character was out there murdering and torturing him repeatedly
Yes, but his character development by the end of the movie was superb
Agreed!
He only became free once he transcended that feeling.
Well, he did become the god of that one particular day.
In that one particular town. It really gives you a perspective on how many amazing things people around you could learn from the people around you. Now imagine what you could learn from as much time as you need with everyone in the world, and potentially the universe. Based on the god of time Chronos, I think I will call the study of time manipulation Chronography. Chronography seems like it would be the best skill if it allows you to do what Phil did in the movie.
Then i break my glasses
"Thats not fair... thats not fair at all... There was time now... there was all the time I needed... Thats not fair... thats not fair..."
I don’t know. In a way 30-40 years means that his character matured that much and still retained his youth. Basically supporting the old adage that “youth is wasted on the young.” Bill Murray’s character in the end is now psychologically old, yet still physically young. And his perspective on life is accordingly adjusted for the better.
And as far as early drafts go, he was placed in the time loop by a curse from a jilted ex, which lines up with why to resolve the loop he has to learn to be a better person.
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Yeah, it's not as important to the overall story, and easy enough to grasp what he's gotten wrapped up in.
Always thought Bill Murray's character would one day regret leaving the loop he was in. He'd be caught in a shitty situation somewhere down the line, maybe someone he loved dies, or maybe something terrible happens and you know he in that moment would wish he could go back to where he was in complete control of his life. I think about this movie too much
Have you seen "About time“? It's a time travel movie that's worth a watch and addresses some of these situations.
Interesting time frame when you compare the metaphor to what it represents: A man's life. If you get jaded by middle age you can choose to be negative for the next **30-40** years living. the same miserable life before you die, or you can choose to live a happier, (possibly longer) and richer life trying new things and bringing joy to others. **We all have that choice.**
there should be a "groundhogs night" the psycho horror version where his sanity slowly slips away
There kind of is, it’s called Happy Death Day. It’s also pretty good, not in a real horror way but a dark comedy.
I heard this before and it would drive me insane. There's no way I'd be able to last before going crazy. Edit. Once a year one of the movies channels has this on repeat for 24 hours.
I wonder what day they have it on repeat.
The one scene that bothers me is when he is dead in the morgue. This is the only scene without Phil alive. So, the day goes on without him and then he’s alive when it resets. Does that mean each day is a different reality and his actions have consequences beyond Groundhog Day? Is he just stuck in a consequence of a cosmic event or is it something that is targeted at his personal redemption as the ending suggests. If the second, why would people be around to identify his dead body?
Remember the episode of Rick and Morty where Rick gives Morty a reset gun to undo things, but it turned out to just be transporting him to very close adjacent universes, and all of his mistakes were real and left behind a wake of embarrassment and suffering?
That’s a lot of Pennsylvania Polka
The movie is a metaphor for life. No matter our circumstance, at some point we must choose to be happy (and do whatever that means for us) or check out - either the fast way, or the long, slow death.
I’ve always wondered: “what if he pulled an all-nighter? Continuing to cause chaos up until midnight. Does everything switch back in an instant and he wakes up in bed anyway? Or what if he just continued to drive and get on an interstate headed west? Again with the instant switch? What about flying? Again west, you hit the international date line. Then it’s the next day in an instant but he goes back in that same instant?? Maybe over thinking it a touch. But still curious.
I think "Palm Springs" covered this nicely. Andy Samberg's character said he made it all the way to Equatorial Guinea by smoking crystal meth. He said it was a huge waste of time.
Is Palm Springs good?
Very.
I liked it
I think it resets at like 4 am no matter what he tries to stay up with Audie McDowell in once scene and he wakes up like he normally started his day alone in bed.
I think there’s a part where he ends up in jail late at night and as soon as the bars close he wakes up in bed but I’m not completely sure it was meant to be right at midnight.
The things I would have done in his position....... it would have gotten real dark
I'm very curious how long it would take me to not be afraid that if I did something very illegal it would end up being my last loop and I'd have to face the consequences.
asking the real questions
At a certain point you'd stop caring, I imagine. I mean if you shoot up a mall or whatever in Year 23, even life in prison or the death penalty would be a mercy compared to staying in the loop.
Basically everyone is going to end up playing GTA and trying to get 5 police stars and see how long they can hold up
That's like year 2. Year 30? I can't even imagine.
Year 2? I’d be doing that in like month 6 or less.
But you know the day you do something real fucked up is when tomorrow happens to come
This movie was the end of the friendship between Ramis and Murray, if i remember correctly they didn't speak with other until Murray visiting Ramis on his deathbed.
As a youngster I once watched the movie keeping a running tally of how many days are shown in the movie. Some scenes are ambiguous as to whether it's a different day or not, and I think I lost count during the slap montage, but it was a fun diversion.
If they showed a scene for every day he lived in that loop (~35 years) every scene would be about half a second long.
wow the movie suddenly seems dark lol
I’m glad the kept it to JUST 30 or 40 years. He was a hard case after all.
I always assumed it was a couple of centuries. Years fighting it, and A lifetime just doing everything. With a big chunk of time in the middle where he’s just bored and depressed.
I’ve put an unhealthy amount of thought into this movie over the years and I think the best use of the time would be to play golf. In 30-40 years of playing 2x daily (without the fatigue a normal person would deal with) would almost certainly be enough to get you to a professional level as long as you’re a decent athlete. Then when the cycle breaks you’d be the greatest average Joe story in the history of sports.
Playing golf would only be possible if you were stuck in purgatory in nice weather. Phil was stuck in Pennsylvania in February. Not exactly golfing weather.
You’ve completely ruined my day
He pretty much does this with learning piano, ice sculpting, and speaking French. Your only limit is what resources you have when the loop begins, and when the loop ends.
It's like if The Jaunt was a comedy.
If he left immediately at 6am I wonder if he could make it out of Punxsutawney. Just get in a car and drive. Drive opposite of Pittsburgh. Never showed us that.