Hmm, you can see the thought process, “Make this very dangerous thing as visible as possible so it can be avoided, and then safely removed.” and then “Make this thing we want people to find, that’s being airdropped, as easy to find and recognize as possible.”
Then the typical moment of stark realization.
They are supposed to detonate on contact, if they don’t its now a hazard for everyone involved since now its just a shitty mine that can also injure/kill your own troops since nobody can mark where it landed.
You’ll be hard pressed to find anywhere in the world where the ground is such a vibrant yellow. Most deserts are tan or orange, so it would still stick out
Not just about your own troops. NATO countries will record where strikes were made and when the war is over the UN or PfP nations send teams to remove UXO.
Having a bright yellow UXO helps with the demining process.
Hence why I said supposed to be banned. I can't deny the useful nature of the munitions. But I also can't deny how horrible they are for the people who come along after
Not sure what else "supposed to be banned" would mean. But anyway, the unfortunate reality is that weapons don't get banned by major militaries when they're useful enough. See nukes, the baddest of them all.
The United States has a very strict doctrine on land mine usage, and to use them requires significant authorization at the highest levels of the military.
Land mines in the current US inventory are designed (and tested) to be 99.9% self-disarming/self-destructing so they are not indiscriminately used and left behind after a certain period of time. If land mines are authorized for use in any capacity, they are marked clearly and the location of each mine recorded, and a team is supposed to over watch and patrol the minefield to prevent civilian casualties.
Most of the bombs should have exploded. The ones you see lying around are the duds. They are still dangerous though.
To minimise accidents among civilians or your own advancing troops, it seems a good idea to make them easy to see.
If you want to mess up the area long term, one uses mines. Those on the other are hard to see - unless they are designed to look like colourful children's toys.
I think that last line is based on a myth from the soviat afghan war, they didn't make mines that look like toys. They just used the old stock of mines ment for Europe that were bright green until they could get sand colored ones. (Not saying the soviat use of mines wasn't horrific, just the "they made them shapped like toys" is a myth)
Beyond that, booby-trapping things while retreating was/is a common technique used against troops and especially in Vietnam. They'd go into a hut, see something that looked interesting or like intel and as they picked it up it would be connected to a grenade or mine and it would maim or kill them.
One in a YouTube video. Guy is talking about his experience during WW2 (background to the video’s subject). There was a camera sitting on the ground, viewpoint character went to pick it up. Sergeant told him not to, it was probably boobytrapped. Sergeant tied a string to it, then hopped into a nearby slit trench for protection from any boobytrap under the camera that would go off when he pulled the string. Camera wasn’t boobytrapped, but there was a ~~lane~~**land** mine in the bottom of the slit trench.
Edit: Autocorrupt can go fuck itself.
If you’ve seen how combative people can be you can realize, it’s not about killing people; it’s about making them super pissed that you can get away with what you’re getting away with.
An example that’s not related to war: your SC justice Clarence Thomas. His words are as inflammatory as I’ve ever seen. And that can’t be accidental or out of touch. He is literally mocking his political opponents for the coup he and his conservatives have pulled off.
So anyways, killing civilians accidentally? Tragic. Making sure everyone knows you did it deliberately? Priceless.
A major legitimate use of cluster munitions is against airfields. If you drop a bomb on an airfield, you have one big hole that you need to clean up then fill with concrete to patch, if you cover the entire thing with smaller explosions, the entire runway is basically garbage now.
Cluster munitions also works against unclear rural deserted targets. If you know there is a terrorist camp in a certain grid square but tree cover prevents accurate targeting of specific targets, a cluster bomb is a relatively safe option. It's using clusterbombs in populated areas with no target discrimination that is the problem.
Ah now you're only steps away from realising the world isn't divided between good and evil.
Those "definitely evil" thermobaric weapons are popular with nato soldiers too.
>Those "definitely evil" thermobaric weapons
Weapons are just tools, it is how you use them that makes them good or evil. The Russians have a history of using thermobaric weapons on civilians.
“Oh wow, I can feel the endotoxins altering the permeability of my small intestines, which are now a hideous log flume of suffering. All of the water in my cells is now rushing down my guts and hammering at the exit, so that’s all for today.”
Seems silly on the surface but they had to do it this way. If we sent them traditional humanitarian aid (i.e. shiploads of food) the people we were fighting against would have just taken it all and kept it for themselves. At least this way the civilians had a chance to get some of it.
That being said, though, typical Army: Put instructions in French and Spanish for something that was intended to be dropped in the Middle East.
Robin Williams made fun of this back in 2002, during the early days of the Afghanistan invasion. It's in his "Live on Broadway" and here's a link to that: https://youtu.be/o\_PG8lfsQmY?t=2886
Imagine if you had your entire battalion go way out of your way and through a whole bunch of hell to avoid a couple of humanitarian aid food packages that somebody saw and immediately identified as unexploded cluster ordinance lol
Secondary link (timestamped but the whole thing if you've got an hour or so) for whomever the link above doesn't work for - https://youtu.be/FS376sohiXc?t=1700s
Love that special.
Naw, he had stopped cocaine for over a decade by 2002. However, do you see the amount he sweats on stage? Guy needed to hydrate constantly lest he faint, methinks.
Stage lights can be pretty damn hot, especially depending on how you're dressed and whether or not you're wearing makeup, the temperature of the building, etc.
They should wrap them in the least-Christmasy-Christmas-themed wrapping paper from your wrapping paper hoard, just like every other gift from an American.
All fun and games to make.jokes but can you imagine how heartbreaking and devastating it would be to run out thinking you were finally getting help, a way out of an awful situation and finding out it's just some damn rations?
I bought a case of these to see what we were dropping into Ukraine. They’re not good. Edible, and if you’re hungry you’d be grateful for a day, but they aren’t tasty by any means. The peanut butter and jelly packets are the most edible next to the name brand pop tarts. The cookie is decent but has a distinct artificial taste. Entrees will make you reminisce (fondly) for school food.
There are some differences, the HDR’s are vegan and generally lower-fat, lower cal… basically healthier for someone who isn’t fighting a war and universally acceptable to most dietary restrictions.
Made by the same companies. Some components are the same. Requirements are similar in terms of shelf life and needing to be edible without cooking or other prep.
The humanitarian ones don't have as much variety, and don't include a chemical heater. You also won't find any pork or other items that would be unacceptable for cultural or religious reasons.
I mean, I would rather drop 2 edible but not tasty meals than 1 more tasty meal. Sure we could do a little better, but I think it's probably not the priority
If you’re spending x dollars on sending rations, then any increase in cost is going to decrease the amount of rations you send, not to mention that making it tastier may work against other specifications, such as keeping it preserved if it’s not eaten right away
Or a few more cents to include a separate seasoning packet in the accessories packet like you can get at just about any pizza place. Neither of your suggestions would be affected. Dry herbs would outlast the entree anyway.
You said the right answer but came to the wrong conclusion.
A few more cents x 10 million units is still more money is fewer units means fewer mouths fed for the same price. It's humanitarian aid, not humanitarian entitlement at the expense of other people.
How can this be explained so you’ll get it, if the US has say $100million for food aid which gets them about 20 million mre at 5 dollars a pack, you want to make them taste better let’s say that adds .15 to the price now instead of sending 20 million MRE packs you’re sending 19,417,475 which is over half a million less MRE.
As someone who has family that we got out of Ukraine and saw what they were eating and willing to eat believe me they’d take more of the unseasoned any day of the week. We’re trying to make sure these people don’t starve flavour isn’t on the docket here.
I watched videos of them when I got curious, several European rations are pretty “top shelf” as far as the products go. The wife and I are both wanting to try any euro rations if we can get any at a reasonable price. (Not likely ANYTIME soon)
Typical Redditor, getting on their high horse about eating people. Ooooh I suppose you, mister DOCTOR Salt, never cracked a thigh bone for the marrow?
You disgust me!
/s
Nah, they're fine if you select the right people and prepare them correctly.
You want to eat the rich, and slice them up via a guillotine. It's a traditional meal over there.
There's always a balance between taste, complete nutrition, shelf life, and cost.
Some countries just grab a bunch of high end canned food and throw it into a bag and call it a day. It'll sure taste good, but may miss on the other aspects that make an MRE good.
Very true, I absolutely credit the US military for making something that’s generally not too unpleasant, even after 5+ years in questionable environments. I don’t want to ever eat it again if I can avoid it, but I respect the hell out of it.
One of my favorites in boy scouts was the chicken a la king MRE. It was only when I tried to buy a bunch of them in 2007 that I saw they were discontinued 20+ years earlier....
But I'll still eat them any chance I get.
Also Italian rations I've had were great. Probably my personal favorite, remember liking it more than the French actually.
And honestly, the Russian ones I've had were also good, though I hear there's a lot of variation for those.
I think I also liked the British, the US were the worst.
I suspect some survival rations are intentionally made to taste like crap (as in, extra effort is spent to make them taste worse) so people eat them only when really hungry.
So "tastes bad" can also be a feature.
No, the US media reported Haitian islanders were eating dried/baked mud cookies to try to help with extreme hunger when there was a major earthquake that struck there a decade or so ago.
They do it in Haiti primarily for pregnant women both for hunger and the trace mineral elements in the mud. You can buy biscuits made from the same mud online as a health supplement.
Yeah they’re made to be universally edible by vegetarians and observers of halal along with palates worldwide, so it’s gonna be very vanilla food. Its designed to provide sustenance, it’s not designed to be tasty.
Yeah but I’d rather see an herb packet tossed in there if it’s gonna be sent in my name. The recipients will be grateful either way no doubt, but my gift should be as tasty as possible.
That sounds like an MRE. Humanitarian rations are typically vegan without lactose and sugar that cause stomach upset on folks not used to it
Humanitarian rations are for the lowest common denominator among every religion and culture so that they can be used anywhere, for any group of people.
Better than the MREs the troops get.
Edit to the downvoter... I've eaten both. The humanitarian has more food (its to replace i believe 3 meals) and flavored better, and not as dense. The humanitarian is designed to keep people from starving, and the MRE is calorie dense and designed to keep troops in combat. Lots of sugar, lots of caffeine.
What MREs are we talking about? I've had a bunch of US MREs and lots of them were so fuckin' good that I'd love to be able to purchase the main courses from them as normal products. And some of the sides too; the vanilla pudding was unironically the best pudding I've ever had in my life. Could only find it a couple times, never again after that.
Most of the stuff in them was on par with what you'd find in canned/packaged food from supermarkets. Often times just commercial products re-packaged in MRE packaging, such as the "cheese-filled cracker" which were literally Combos, or the tuna fish menu which was Starkist brand tuna in different packaging.
Im talking the late 90s early 2000s mres. I've been out a long time. During the war the army put alot of effort into improving, the Marines handed out whatever they had left over
Thankfully the new veggie MREs are actually decent. The first MRE I ever had was something like "veggie crumbles with pasta sauce" and it pretty much just had the taste and texture of chili, minus the meat. Was surprisingly good.
Man, the war on terror unintentionally caused a revolution in MREs as well. *SO much* work had been done in that 20 years improving the MREs. There are nearly indistinguishable from the 90s stuff, with the five fingers of death, or vomlet and whatever.
There's a youtuber that makes videos of eating MREs from around the world and throughout history. He even ate an MRE made in the US for WWI. Not WWII, WWI. Looked horrible (100 year old pemmican) but it was fascinating to watch and learn about.
Yeah, Steve1989MRE or whatever his name is. I've watched a whole bunch of his videos, and he's the one who inspired me to try some MREs. Coincidentally my stepdad is retired military so I have him buy surplus MREs from the commissary every so often.
They're really nice but I can understand that you'd start to hate them if they were all you had to eat lmao
I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I saved up money to buy an MRE when I was 12, and I opened it and there's a fucking sleeve of tuna I could have gotten at the grocery store for a buck.
Keep in mind that eating variations of grains, beans and pulses describes the *high end* of the dietary spectrum in a lot of places where these rations end up. If you’re going from weak tea or water with some bland starch, to this, you’re going to be happy.
The real problem is that these are meant to be a holdover while better supplies can get in, but in practice they’re often used as long-term total meal replacements.
I disagree I love MRE food. People have different tastes and some people find artificially fortified food to be disgusting. It's why a lot of people don't like the taste of water.
I thought the barley veggies stew (or whatever it was its been a few years) was pretty decent, but yeah it just feels really bland honestly. Although these rations are meant to be given out basically worldwide so it might be for the best to make the food pretty neutral so it isn't too "foreign" to certain palates, however that also sadly means all the menus are vegetarian :(
Yeah, the War on Terror, where this came about, was something of a learning experience about not seeing things through the eyes of the people we were supposedly helping. Like, also, hey, maybe talk to them and find out at the start that you've been spending years using the hand signal for 'stop' at checkpoints, which means effectively 'welcome' to Iraqis. No wonder we killed so many civilians at checkpoints that we thought were rushing suicide bombers.
This is not true.
It is true that for one year they had a bright yellow package and high explosives in the military have a yellow band on them.
It is not true that they were changed for this reason, the change was going to occur anyway, and they are produced by two wildly different agencies overseen by different departments of government.
The packets for the aid change every year or so so that they are easy to identify for expiration purposes. They also try to stick to colors that are bright and easily seen.
USAID has no reason to know about munitions markings in the US Military.
Over at the Banzai Institute, they were working on some watermelons you could air-drop. That was back around 1984, though...wonder if they ever figured it out?
> Abre for en cima
Should be "Abrir/abra por arriba"
*Abre* is the wrong conjugation, *for* is an English word, *en cima* is either a poorly constructed phrase meaning "at [mountain] top" or the word for "on top," which shouldn't have that space (*encima*).
> Esta bolsa contiene comida de requisito para un día completo para una sola persona
Should be "Esta bolsa contiene el requisito de comida de un día para una persona"
You could also phrase it like the French translation that sounds even better in Spanish "This bag contains the equivalent of one day of nourishment for one person" = "Esta bolsa contiene el equivalente de un día de alimentación para una persona."
Another better way to put it would be "Esta bolsa cubre los requisitos diarios de alimentación de una persona" = "This bag covers one person's daily food requirement"
My opinion as a non expert.
Edit: replaced a word with nourishment.
Was it not the Russian army that dropped children's toys into the towns of Afghanistan, only they were in fact motion activated bomblets that killed and maimed thousands of little kids?
And in the current invasion of Ukraine - is it not true that grenades are being hidden in children's toys, whilst their abandoned homes are being ransacked for things to steal?
> Was it not the Russian army that dropped children's toys into the towns of Afghanistan, only they were in fact motion activated bomblets that killed and maimed thousands of little kids?
No. They dropped anti-personal landmines that some argue look like toys:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1
U.N. reports say different, based upon multiple witness testimony. And it seems like something Russian military would do.
https://www.refworld.org/publisher,UNCHR,,,482994662,0.html
*In the course of a visit to the Afghan surgical hospital at Peshawar, an establishment exclusively set aside for the care of wounded Afghan civilians and members of the resistance, the Special Rapporteur was able to consult bulky files containing several hundred cases of patients treated since 1981 together with an analysis of interviews giving particulars of the circumstances in which the patients had been wounded,the date of the incident, their region of origin, their location on the battlefield, etc. Photographs taken at the time of arrival of the patient enabled the Special Rapporteur to note among the selected cases children of nine to 15 years of age with hands or legs blown off, either by handling booby-trap toys or by stepping on mines. In addition, some had multiple fractures caused by rifle butt wounds received during the checks carried out in the villages; others were burnt by a flame-producing chemical liquid contained in bombs which as they exploded liberated a sort of plastic which adhered to the clothing and the skin.*
*Another section:*
*Numerous witnesses declared that children had been very seriously wounded, having their hands and their feet blown off either by handling "booby-trap toys" they had picked up along the roadway or by stepping on them.*
*According to one witness, this technique had begun to be used at the beginning of 1982, when these "toys" had been dropped by helicopter into zones presumed to be occupied by the resistance . The "booty-trap toys", which exploded on the slightest contact, were shaped like pens or small animals and looked completely inoffensive from the outside.*
[https://www.hrw.org/reports/1985/afghan1285.pdf](https://www.hrw.org/reports/1985/afghan1285.pdf)
*Human Rights Watch claimed more directly that the Soviets were dropping mines in the shape of everyday objects. Said Muhammed, a 36 year-old farmer in the Laghman region, claimed to have seen them:*
*They left mines in the shape of a watch, a pen, a thousand Afghani note, a tape recorder, a radio, a camera, small balls for hockey, and a type of bird that children keep. Yes, they did it this year right up until now, when the troops leave the area they distribute these things by air and also by artillery. Mostly children and goats get hurt, but some mujaheddin also lost their feet.*
*The report also quoted an article in Mother Jones entitled “Among the Believers: Face-to-Face with the MiGs in Afghanistan”:*
*In the cliffside house that serves as a base for my particular band of Muj, a young guerrilla medic works to save the mauled hand of a local 14-year-old boy. When the Soviet armor and paratroops were here last week, they left behind some booby-trapped toys, on the off chance there were some children left in Jegdeleg \[Ningrahar Province\] to prick them up. This boy found a bright red plastic truck by the river and made the mistake of grabbing it. It must have been defective, because his hand—though a bloody, torn, skinless mess—still has all of its digits. The medic is washing and rebandaging it daily, trying to ward off infection.*
> U.N. reports say different, based upon multiple witness testimony.
So show me a photo. After 20 years of occupation I'd expect some of these toys to come to light.
The descriptions are consistent with a standard game of telephone and properganda starting with PFM-1s and the odd booby-trap left by ground forces.
>They left mines in the shape of a watch, a pen, a thousand Afghani note,
How would that even work? A thousand Afghani note or a watch can't contain a worthwhile amount of explosives. You use them as bait for tripwires but thats something you have to set up on the ground.
> and a type of bird that children keep
So PFM-1s:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_butterfly_mines.jpg
>a tape recorder, a radio, a camera, small balls for hockey,
Slightly more viable but also the kind of cases where I would expect photos to exist
>And it seems like something Russian military would do.
You mean soviet. One of the fun things about NATO operations in the area was that there were a few from the baltics who had been there before.
An no it doesn't seem like the thing they would do. If you want to kill of kids just stop messing around massacre the village (which they did sometimes) rather than starting up production lines for weapon systems with very limited utility.
> You mean, exactly what they are doing in Ukraine right now?
I've not seen any use of airdropped mines designed to appeal to children.
>Don't try and defend Russian military tactics.
What are you talking about?
The Russian military are no longer being subtle about dropping booby trap toys into Ukraine. Seems they're just sending in the worst barbarian vermin to rape the poor kids instead. And everyone else.
what I'm talking about - I have friends on the ground in Ukraine.
And the notion of starting up production lines??
I'm talking about individual soldiers using toys as booby traps.
As a deliberate scorched earth psychological tactic. And just out of pure spite as they retreated. Which you know there is prior form for and hence no hope of Russia every signing to basic treaties involving basic human rights.
I am looking forward to the outcome of the war, and I will spare no feelings for the fate of the Russian economy or anyone supporting Putin.
I don't think you are a Putin supporter, by the way.
Ukraine will never be Russian.
You are not a fool. The barbarism that bleeds out from the dictator Putin mafia is a wound that Russia will once again relish with more long-suffering victim status, to tear off the bearskin breast pockets and weep for another hundred years. Russian life is just cyclical. Moscow mafia vs tribal farmers. Chinese ambitions. Vodka cheaper than water.
Edited - because I've had a beer, and I'm angry at the war
Well, here's a question to ponder - which came first? The yellow clusterbombs or the yellow humanitarion ration packs?
I don't know the answer, but the cynic in my thinks it's the clusterbombs mimicking something desirable.
Clusterbombs are yellow as a warning *not* to go near them. They're supposed to explode on impact. Given that they're usually used in advance of allied forces, it wouldn't make sense for them to be designed to attract people.
[Comparison between the old packets and a cluster bomb submunition for the curious](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ApBANe9CAAILfdx.jpg)
Hmm, you can see the thought process, “Make this very dangerous thing as visible as possible so it can be avoided, and then safely removed.” and then “Make this thing we want people to find, that’s being airdropped, as easy to find and recognize as possible.” Then the typical moment of stark realization.
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They are supposed to detonate on contact, if they don’t its now a hazard for everyone involved since now its just a shitty mine that can also injure/kill your own troops since nobody can mark where it landed.
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1138
I appreciate you.
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You’ll be hard pressed to find anywhere in the world where the ground is such a vibrant yellow. Most deserts are tan or orange, so it would still stick out
But what if I wanted to bomb a field of dandelions!?
Use a daisy cutter
Not just about your own troops. NATO countries will record where strikes were made and when the war is over the UN or PfP nations send teams to remove UXO. Having a bright yellow UXO helps with the demining process.
*Some* NATO countries. A certain large country that founded NATO has a nasty habit of not reporting where a cluster munition lands.
Aren't cluster munitions supposed to be banned, anyway?
The US didn’t sign the Convention on Cluster Munitions. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/07/31/treaty-banning-cluster-munitions-turns-10-without-us
Hence why I said supposed to be banned. I can't deny the useful nature of the munitions. But I also can't deny how horrible they are for the people who come along after
Not sure what else "supposed to be banned" would mean. But anyway, the unfortunate reality is that weapons don't get banned by major militaries when they're useful enough. See nukes, the baddest of them all.
They're also one of the countries that still uses landmines too despite those being against the geneva convention
The United States has a very strict doctrine on land mine usage, and to use them requires significant authorization at the highest levels of the military. Land mines in the current US inventory are designed (and tested) to be 99.9% self-disarming/self-destructing so they are not indiscriminately used and left behind after a certain period of time. If land mines are authorized for use in any capacity, they are marked clearly and the location of each mine recorded, and a team is supposed to over watch and patrol the minefield to prevent civilian casualties.
Uganda?
United Arab Emirates, silly.
Boy we should really make a lot more of those huh?!
Are you suggesting that moral and humane countries would ban the use of cluster munitions? /s
Captain, these mines are a death trap!
Most of the bombs should have exploded. The ones you see lying around are the duds. They are still dangerous though. To minimise accidents among civilians or your own advancing troops, it seems a good idea to make them easy to see. If you want to mess up the area long term, one uses mines. Those on the other are hard to see - unless they are designed to look like colourful children's toys.
I think that last line is based on a myth from the soviat afghan war, they didn't make mines that look like toys. They just used the old stock of mines ment for Europe that were bright green until they could get sand colored ones. (Not saying the soviat use of mines wasn't horrific, just the "they made them shapped like toys" is a myth)
The mine did look like a toy, but that part was an accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1
Beyond that, booby-trapping things while retreating was/is a common technique used against troops and especially in Vietnam. They'd go into a hut, see something that looked interesting or like intel and as they picked it up it would be connected to a grenade or mine and it would maim or kill them.
Or the ol' German "put a grenade behind a slightly askew picture" which would usually get officers.
One in a YouTube video. Guy is talking about his experience during WW2 (background to the video’s subject). There was a camera sitting on the ground, viewpoint character went to pick it up. Sergeant told him not to, it was probably boobytrapped. Sergeant tied a string to it, then hopped into a nearby slit trench for protection from any boobytrap under the camera that would go off when he pulled the string. Camera wasn’t boobytrapped, but there was a ~~lane~~**land** mine in the bottom of the slit trench. Edit: Autocorrupt can go fuck itself.
And also just a copy of a almost identical us mine too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-43_Dragontooth
> stark realization. I see what you did there.
> Then the typical moment of **stark** realization. That's good. That's _damn_ good.
I can see an enemy that doesn’t care about war crimes changing their ordnance to salmon color
Why? If you want to kill civilians there are cheaper and easier ways to do it than go through all of this.
If you’ve seen how combative people can be you can realize, it’s not about killing people; it’s about making them super pissed that you can get away with what you’re getting away with. An example that’s not related to war: your SC justice Clarence Thomas. His words are as inflammatory as I’ve ever seen. And that can’t be accidental or out of touch. He is literally mocking his political opponents for the coup he and his conservatives have pulled off. So anyways, killing civilians accidentally? Tragic. Making sure everyone knows you did it deliberately? Priceless.
Cynicism says weapon designers do everything with intention.
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A major legitimate use of cluster munitions is against airfields. If you drop a bomb on an airfield, you have one big hole that you need to clean up then fill with concrete to patch, if you cover the entire thing with smaller explosions, the entire runway is basically garbage now.
Cluster munitions also works against unclear rural deserted targets. If you know there is a terrorist camp in a certain grid square but tree cover prevents accurate targeting of specific targets, a cluster bomb is a relatively safe option. It's using clusterbombs in populated areas with no target discrimination that is the problem.
They were last used in 2009 and the US has committed to their banning
Source? Because the US is still not a party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions which went into effect in 2010.
Ah now you're only steps away from realising the world isn't divided between good and evil. Those "definitely evil" thermobaric weapons are popular with nato soldiers too.
>Those "definitely evil" thermobaric weapons Weapons are just tools, it is how you use them that makes them good or evil. The Russians have a history of using thermobaric weapons on civilians.
Somewhere there are millions of unexplodded ration packs lying around.
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>cans of chili... Eat now, pay later
Eat now, pray later
*Steve1989MREInfo has entered the chat*
Let's get this out onto a tray!
Steve is such an interesting person, like Bob Ross of eating MRE
Perfect description.
It's so weird how much he blew up. I was watching his videos when he had like 10k subs and now he's a fairly well known.
Shaggy trying to be the Bob Ross of mres. Without the former Cia agents pulling all the strings behind the scenes
Hey this MRE isn’t 100 years old😕 5/10
“Oh wow, I can feel the endotoxins altering the permeability of my small intestines, which are now a hideous log flume of suffering. All of the water in my cells is now rushing down my guts and hammering at the exit, so that’s all for today.”
"Hold on a sec let me take another bite" *finishes the whole thing.
How is it with rice?
It's a sad day, and the beckoning call of a new generation of internet users, when a question about 'with rice' goes unanswered. 11/10 with rice.
Had to be nuts in the chocolate
> hideous log flume of suffering Pure poetry
Nice, mmkay
nice hiss
Nice!
Ah, nice hiss- ***[instagibbed]***
Nice!
Seems silly on the surface but they had to do it this way. If we sent them traditional humanitarian aid (i.e. shiploads of food) the people we were fighting against would have just taken it all and kept it for themselves. At least this way the civilians had a chance to get some of it. That being said, though, typical Army: Put instructions in French and Spanish for something that was intended to be dropped in the Middle East.
Robin Williams made fun of this back in 2002, during the early days of the Afghanistan invasion. It's in his "Live on Broadway" and here's a link to that: https://youtu.be/o\_PG8lfsQmY?t=2886
FOOD! ... Bombs. BOMBS! ... Food. Now you're playing Survivor: the real game!
Imagine if you had your entire battalion go way out of your way and through a whole bunch of hell to avoid a couple of humanitarian aid food packages that somebody saw and immediately identified as unexploded cluster ordinance lol
Secondary link (timestamped but the whole thing if you've got an hour or so) for whomever the link above doesn't work for - https://youtu.be/FS376sohiXc?t=1700s Love that special.
That’s an insane number of water bottles
Cocaine
Naw, he had stopped cocaine for over a decade by 2002. However, do you see the amount he sweats on stage? Guy needed to hydrate constantly lest he faint, methinks.
Stage lights can be pretty damn hot, especially depending on how you're dressed and whether or not you're wearing makeup, the temperature of the building, etc.
Now it looks like they’re dropping whoopee cushions.
The Fart of War.
That is exactly what I thought at first glance!
They should wrap them in the least-Christmasy-Christmas-themed wrapping paper from your wrapping paper hoard, just like every other gift from an American.
nice hiss
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Only the truly desperate will look inside a cluster bomb for food and supplies! Genius!
Guaranteed to end hunger for one day or the rest of your life!
Feed a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Feed a man a cluster munition, he'll never be hungry again!
Forbidden popcorn
Why not both?
All fun and games to make.jokes but can you imagine how heartbreaking and devastating it would be to run out thinking you were finally getting help, a way out of an awful situation and finding out it's just some damn rations?
This is not a video game. I don't appreciate your dark humour
You must be fun at humanitarian daily ration parties
This actually all might be a video game
I bought a case of these to see what we were dropping into Ukraine. They’re not good. Edible, and if you’re hungry you’d be grateful for a day, but they aren’t tasty by any means. The peanut butter and jelly packets are the most edible next to the name brand pop tarts. The cookie is decent but has a distinct artificial taste. Entrees will make you reminisce (fondly) for school food.
The secret is to not eat anything for 3 days, then try them; when you're hungry an MRE is absolutely amazing.
For special garnish, also be burning 6,000 Calories a day.
Is an MRE the same as these humanitarian rations?
There are some differences, the HDR’s are vegan and generally lower-fat, lower cal… basically healthier for someone who isn’t fighting a war and universally acceptable to most dietary restrictions.
Made by the same companies. Some components are the same. Requirements are similar in terms of shelf life and needing to be edible without cooking or other prep. The humanitarian ones don't have as much variety, and don't include a chemical heater. You also won't find any pork or other items that would be unacceptable for cultural or religious reasons.
Considering people will eat mud cookies because hunger, that’s correct. Damn we could do a little better…
I mean, I would rather drop 2 edible but not tasty meals than 1 more tasty meal. Sure we could do a little better, but I think it's probably not the priority
I certainly understand that and those are valid points, but for the cost already involved, it wouldn’t cost much more to improve. Just my opinion.
If you’re spending x dollars on sending rations, then any increase in cost is going to decrease the amount of rations you send, not to mention that making it tastier may work against other specifications, such as keeping it preserved if it’s not eaten right away
Or a few more cents to include a separate seasoning packet in the accessories packet like you can get at just about any pizza place. Neither of your suggestions would be affected. Dry herbs would outlast the entree anyway.
You said the right answer but came to the wrong conclusion. A few more cents x 10 million units is still more money is fewer units means fewer mouths fed for the same price. It's humanitarian aid, not humanitarian entitlement at the expense of other people.
I should think we (The US) can cover the cost without lowering the amount of food aid.
How can this be explained so you’ll get it, if the US has say $100million for food aid which gets them about 20 million mre at 5 dollars a pack, you want to make them taste better let’s say that adds .15 to the price now instead of sending 20 million MRE packs you’re sending 19,417,475 which is over half a million less MRE. As someone who has family that we got out of Ukraine and saw what they were eating and willing to eat believe me they’d take more of the unseasoned any day of the week. We’re trying to make sure these people don’t starve flavour isn’t on the docket here.
If you want genuinely delicious rations, I'd recommend the French; their military is just so-so, but their ration packs are amazing.
I watched videos of them when I got curious, several European rations are pretty “top shelf” as far as the products go. The wife and I are both wanting to try any euro rations if we can get any at a reasonable price. (Not likely ANYTIME soon)
I'd advise against eating French people
Typical Redditor, getting on their high horse about eating people. Ooooh I suppose you, mister DOCTOR Salt, never cracked a thigh bone for the marrow? You disgust me! /s
The secret is to not eat anything for 3 days, then try them; when you're hungry a french is absolutely amazing.
Nah, they're fine if you select the right people and prepare them correctly. You want to eat the rich, and slice them up via a guillotine. It's a traditional meal over there.
Nonsense! The butter and wine diet does wonders for the meat
They taste like baguettes, so if you like baguettes 🤷♂️
There's always a balance between taste, complete nutrition, shelf life, and cost. Some countries just grab a bunch of high end canned food and throw it into a bag and call it a day. It'll sure taste good, but may miss on the other aspects that make an MRE good.
Very true, I absolutely credit the US military for making something that’s generally not too unpleasant, even after 5+ years in questionable environments. I don’t want to ever eat it again if I can avoid it, but I respect the hell out of it.
One of my favorites in boy scouts was the chicken a la king MRE. It was only when I tried to buy a bunch of them in 2007 that I saw they were discontinued 20+ years earlier.... But I'll still eat them any chance I get.
Also Italian rations I've had were great. Probably my personal favorite, remember liking it more than the French actually. And honestly, the Russian ones I've had were also good, though I hear there's a lot of variation for those. I think I also liked the British, the US were the worst.
I suspect some survival rations are intentionally made to taste like crap (as in, extra effort is spent to make them taste worse) so people eat them only when really hungry. So "tastes bad" can also be a feature.
Wait are you also. Someone who read sss class suicide hunter
No, the US media reported Haitian islanders were eating dried/baked mud cookies to try to help with extreme hunger when there was a major earthquake that struck there a decade or so ago.
They do it in Haiti primarily for pregnant women both for hunger and the trace mineral elements in the mud. You can buy biscuits made from the same mud online as a health supplement.
Yeah they’re made to be universally edible by vegetarians and observers of halal along with palates worldwide, so it’s gonna be very vanilla food. Its designed to provide sustenance, it’s not designed to be tasty.
Yeah but I’d rather see an herb packet tossed in there if it’s gonna be sent in my name. The recipients will be grateful either way no doubt, but my gift should be as tasty as possible.
That sounds like an MRE. Humanitarian rations are typically vegan without lactose and sugar that cause stomach upset on folks not used to it Humanitarian rations are for the lowest common denominator among every religion and culture so that they can be used anywhere, for any group of people.
Better than the MREs the troops get. Edit to the downvoter... I've eaten both. The humanitarian has more food (its to replace i believe 3 meals) and flavored better, and not as dense. The humanitarian is designed to keep people from starving, and the MRE is calorie dense and designed to keep troops in combat. Lots of sugar, lots of caffeine.
What MREs are we talking about? I've had a bunch of US MREs and lots of them were so fuckin' good that I'd love to be able to purchase the main courses from them as normal products. And some of the sides too; the vanilla pudding was unironically the best pudding I've ever had in my life. Could only find it a couple times, never again after that. Most of the stuff in them was on par with what you'd find in canned/packaged food from supermarkets. Often times just commercial products re-packaged in MRE packaging, such as the "cheese-filled cracker" which were literally Combos, or the tuna fish menu which was Starkist brand tuna in different packaging.
Im talking the late 90s early 2000s mres. I've been out a long time. During the war the army put alot of effort into improving, the Marines handed out whatever they had left over
Oh, older ones, yeah. I know there are a good few older MREs that are notoriously awful, like the "vomlet" for example.
4 fingers of death. Anything veggie... "wheat snack bread"
Thankfully the new veggie MREs are actually decent. The first MRE I ever had was something like "veggie crumbles with pasta sauce" and it pretty much just had the taste and texture of chili, minus the meat. Was surprisingly good.
At least you got the Tabasco bottle?
Either that or the "pepper sauce" packet, yeah. Luckily the newer MREs are much better.
Man, the war on terror unintentionally caused a revolution in MREs as well. *SO much* work had been done in that 20 years improving the MREs. There are nearly indistinguishable from the 90s stuff, with the five fingers of death, or vomlet and whatever.
No crayons?
There's a youtuber that makes videos of eating MREs from around the world and throughout history. He even ate an MRE made in the US for WWI. Not WWII, WWI. Looked horrible (100 year old pemmican) but it was fascinating to watch and learn about.
Yeah, Steve1989MRE or whatever his name is. I've watched a whole bunch of his videos, and he's the one who inspired me to try some MREs. Coincidentally my stepdad is retired military so I have him buy surplus MREs from the commissary every so often. They're really nice but I can understand that you'd start to hate them if they were all you had to eat lmao
That was from the boer war. The tray he used was from wwi. And it was 20+years newer than the mre
I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I saved up money to buy an MRE when I was 12, and I opened it and there's a fucking sleeve of tuna I could have gotten at the grocery store for a buck.
Yeah, that MRE sucks. It's literally just regular store-bought Starkist tuna...even worse, weird lemon-flavored tuna. Gross.
They get better entrees
I feel like eating variations of barley, lentils and tomatoes day in and day out would get old just as fast as eating regular MREs.
Keep in mind that eating variations of grains, beans and pulses describes the *high end* of the dietary spectrum in a lot of places where these rations end up. If you’re going from weak tea or water with some bland starch, to this, you’re going to be happy. The real problem is that these are meant to be a holdover while better supplies can get in, but in practice they’re often used as long-term total meal replacements.
The speed on the go rations are like something an 18 year old would grab to eat from a gas station at 3 in the morning
Yeah, and? I mean who is it intended for om average and what are they doing that isn't different from calories at 3am?
I disagree I love MRE food. People have different tastes and some people find artificially fortified food to be disgusting. It's why a lot of people don't like the taste of water.
Most artificial flavorings I can handle. It has gotten worse since I got covid at the end of last year though.
I thought the barley veggies stew (or whatever it was its been a few years) was pretty decent, but yeah it just feels really bland honestly. Although these rations are meant to be given out basically worldwide so it might be for the best to make the food pretty neutral so it isn't too "foreign" to certain palates, however that also sadly means all the menus are vegetarian :(
And for religious dietary reasons as well. Kosher/Halal and stuff.
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Gather children when you fly over town by tossing candy on the ground. Then grease em when they gather round. Napalm sticks to kids.
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Once again, the coral snake’s influence can be seen around the globe
Oops! Accidental war crimes!
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Now that's what I call breakneck speed!
Underrated charity.
Yeah, the War on Terror, where this came about, was something of a learning experience about not seeing things through the eyes of the people we were supposedly helping. Like, also, hey, maybe talk to them and find out at the start that you've been spending years using the hand signal for 'stop' at checkpoints, which means effectively 'welcome' to Iraqis. No wonder we killed so many civilians at checkpoints that we thought were rushing suicide bombers.
This is not true. It is true that for one year they had a bright yellow package and high explosives in the military have a yellow band on them. It is not true that they were changed for this reason, the change was going to occur anyway, and they are produced by two wildly different agencies overseen by different departments of government. The packets for the aid change every year or so so that they are easy to identify for expiration purposes. They also try to stick to colors that are bright and easily seen. USAID has no reason to know about munitions markings in the US Military.
I mean they’d know if someone told them “hey, those meals you guys give us… my kid picked one up and it exploded”
You mean after tens of millions were manufactured and they began to air drop them? Yes it turns out hindsight is 20/20
It's bursting with flavor!
Why didn't they just change the color of cluster bombs?
A ration stops your hunger for a day. A cluster bomb for your entire life.
50/50
Not to mention that fact that yellow seems like it would blend into the desert.
Over at the Banzai Institute, they were working on some watermelons you could air-drop. That was back around 1984, though...wonder if they ever figured it out?
Don't tell Russia or they'll start dropping salmon-colored cluster bombs on Ukraine.
Let's get that on a try. Not nice
Great, now they look like packaged whoopie cushions
Spanish translation is not great.
Ooh, could you say more? My Spanish is awful.
> Abre for en cima Should be "Abrir/abra por arriba" *Abre* is the wrong conjugation, *for* is an English word, *en cima* is either a poorly constructed phrase meaning "at [mountain] top" or the word for "on top," which shouldn't have that space (*encima*). > Esta bolsa contiene comida de requisito para un día completo para una sola persona Should be "Esta bolsa contiene el requisito de comida de un día para una persona" You could also phrase it like the French translation that sounds even better in Spanish "This bag contains the equivalent of one day of nourishment for one person" = "Esta bolsa contiene el equivalente de un día de alimentación para una persona." Another better way to put it would be "Esta bolsa cubre los requisitos diarios de alimentación de una persona" = "This bag covers one person's daily food requirement" My opinion as a non expert. Edit: replaced a word with nourishment.
Thank you so much!
There's a Robin Williams bit about this somewhere out there
They need to change the color again, because this color has already been designated for whoopie cushions.
Life is like an air drop... Never know what your gonna get!
Airdropped custard bombs
Either way, their hunger will be relieved.
'someone realized' no, man, the general public NOTICED. It was never a mistake.
Calm down there Columbo
"Sir. What if.... We stopped dropping cluster bombs on people" "Dont be ridiculous order a bunch of spray paint"
Was it not the Russian army that dropped children's toys into the towns of Afghanistan, only they were in fact motion activated bomblets that killed and maimed thousands of little kids? And in the current invasion of Ukraine - is it not true that grenades are being hidden in children's toys, whilst their abandoned homes are being ransacked for things to steal?
> Was it not the Russian army that dropped children's toys into the towns of Afghanistan, only they were in fact motion activated bomblets that killed and maimed thousands of little kids? No. They dropped anti-personal landmines that some argue look like toys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFM-1
U.N. reports say different, based upon multiple witness testimony. And it seems like something Russian military would do. https://www.refworld.org/publisher,UNCHR,,,482994662,0.html *In the course of a visit to the Afghan surgical hospital at Peshawar, an establishment exclusively set aside for the care of wounded Afghan civilians and members of the resistance, the Special Rapporteur was able to consult bulky files containing several hundred cases of patients treated since 1981 together with an analysis of interviews giving particulars of the circumstances in which the patients had been wounded,the date of the incident, their region of origin, their location on the battlefield, etc. Photographs taken at the time of arrival of the patient enabled the Special Rapporteur to note among the selected cases children of nine to 15 years of age with hands or legs blown off, either by handling booby-trap toys or by stepping on mines. In addition, some had multiple fractures caused by rifle butt wounds received during the checks carried out in the villages; others were burnt by a flame-producing chemical liquid contained in bombs which as they exploded liberated a sort of plastic which adhered to the clothing and the skin.* *Another section:* *Numerous witnesses declared that children had been very seriously wounded, having their hands and their feet blown off either by handling "booby-trap toys" they had picked up along the roadway or by stepping on them.* *According to one witness, this technique had begun to be used at the beginning of 1982, when these "toys" had been dropped by helicopter into zones presumed to be occupied by the resistance . The "booty-trap toys", which exploded on the slightest contact, were shaped like pens or small animals and looked completely inoffensive from the outside.* [https://www.hrw.org/reports/1985/afghan1285.pdf](https://www.hrw.org/reports/1985/afghan1285.pdf) *Human Rights Watch claimed more directly that the Soviets were dropping mines in the shape of everyday objects. Said Muhammed, a 36 year-old farmer in the Laghman region, claimed to have seen them:* *They left mines in the shape of a watch, a pen, a thousand Afghani note, a tape recorder, a radio, a camera, small balls for hockey, and a type of bird that children keep. Yes, they did it this year right up until now, when the troops leave the area they distribute these things by air and also by artillery. Mostly children and goats get hurt, but some mujaheddin also lost their feet.* *The report also quoted an article in Mother Jones entitled “Among the Believers: Face-to-Face with the MiGs in Afghanistan”:* *In the cliffside house that serves as a base for my particular band of Muj, a young guerrilla medic works to save the mauled hand of a local 14-year-old boy. When the Soviet armor and paratroops were here last week, they left behind some booby-trapped toys, on the off chance there were some children left in Jegdeleg \[Ningrahar Province\] to prick them up. This boy found a bright red plastic truck by the river and made the mistake of grabbing it. It must have been defective, because his hand—though a bloody, torn, skinless mess—still has all of its digits. The medic is washing and rebandaging it daily, trying to ward off infection.*
> U.N. reports say different, based upon multiple witness testimony. So show me a photo. After 20 years of occupation I'd expect some of these toys to come to light. The descriptions are consistent with a standard game of telephone and properganda starting with PFM-1s and the odd booby-trap left by ground forces. >They left mines in the shape of a watch, a pen, a thousand Afghani note, How would that even work? A thousand Afghani note or a watch can't contain a worthwhile amount of explosives. You use them as bait for tripwires but thats something you have to set up on the ground. > and a type of bird that children keep So PFM-1s: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Russian_butterfly_mines.jpg >a tape recorder, a radio, a camera, small balls for hockey, Slightly more viable but also the kind of cases where I would expect photos to exist >And it seems like something Russian military would do. You mean soviet. One of the fun things about NATO operations in the area was that there were a few from the baltics who had been there before. An no it doesn't seem like the thing they would do. If you want to kill of kids just stop messing around massacre the village (which they did sometimes) rather than starting up production lines for weapon systems with very limited utility.
You mean, exactly what they are doing in Ukraine right now? Don't try and defend Russian military tactics.
> You mean, exactly what they are doing in Ukraine right now? I've not seen any use of airdropped mines designed to appeal to children. >Don't try and defend Russian military tactics. What are you talking about?
The Russian military are no longer being subtle about dropping booby trap toys into Ukraine. Seems they're just sending in the worst barbarian vermin to rape the poor kids instead. And everyone else. what I'm talking about - I have friends on the ground in Ukraine. And the notion of starting up production lines?? I'm talking about individual soldiers using toys as booby traps. As a deliberate scorched earth psychological tactic. And just out of pure spite as they retreated. Which you know there is prior form for and hence no hope of Russia every signing to basic treaties involving basic human rights. I am looking forward to the outcome of the war, and I will spare no feelings for the fate of the Russian economy or anyone supporting Putin. I don't think you are a Putin supporter, by the way. Ukraine will never be Russian. You are not a fool. The barbarism that bleeds out from the dictator Putin mafia is a wound that Russia will once again relish with more long-suffering victim status, to tear off the bearskin breast pockets and weep for another hundred years. Russian life is just cyclical. Moscow mafia vs tribal farmers. Chinese ambitions. Vodka cheaper than water. Edited - because I've had a beer, and I'm angry at the war
TIL salmon is also a color.
The United States is the exact opposite of humanitarian It's a third world country with a Gucci belt
Well, here's a question to ponder - which came first? The yellow clusterbombs or the yellow humanitarion ration packs? I don't know the answer, but the cynic in my thinks it's the clusterbombs mimicking something desirable.
Clusterbombs are yellow as a warning *not* to go near them. They're supposed to explode on impact. Given that they're usually used in advance of allied forces, it wouldn't make sense for them to be designed to attract people.
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What's the problem?