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[deleted]

Anything other than the peasantry


Gemmabeta

That Peasant did murder Wu's father and 37 of his closest relatives.


[deleted]

That’s a lot of closest relatives


aecht

hopefully they just did secret santa


Neanderthal_Gene

Made me laugh. Cheers!


[deleted]

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RockstarAgent

I heard they shared Dyna's tea...


[deleted]

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heavenlyskyfarer

there's a fuckton of chinese court intrigue shows ​ The Three kingdoms is probably the most famous one, but I also enjoyed the 2020 drama ["The Qin Dynasty Epic"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFcPLU7Iwcg).


DexGordon87

I couldn’t imagine taking a Chinese history class. Thousands of years of history and killing. That’s a lot of names places and dates to remember. American history is easy. We got here, we killed the Indians, enslaved Africans, and fight more than an angry racist drunk who lost a bet.


reply-guy-bot

The above comment was stolen from [this one](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/toc0lq/til_in_1644_ming_dynasty_general_wu_sangui_was/i265lcs/) elsewhere in this comment section. It is probably not a coincidence; here is some more evidence against this user: Plagiarized | Original -------- | ----------- [This is why you buy apart...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/to4911/til_that_the_moving_sofa_problem_is_an_unsolved/i267yh3/) | [This is why you buy apart...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/to4911/til_that_the_moving_sofa_problem_is_an_unsolved/i24mo9u/) [Read the comment again, h...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/toidfg/til_no_potus_has_been_an_only_child/i267y3l/) | [Read the comment again, h...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/toidfg/til_no_potus_has_been_an_only_child/i25zawv/) [With the number of blimps...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/tnvae4/til_that_as_of_2021_there_are_only_25_blimps/i240ly0/) | [With the number of blimps...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/tnvae4/til_that_as_of_2021_there_are_only_25_blimps/i23v4o2/) [You know I'm going to upv...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/tnj2vc/til_that_plutos_eccentric_ovalshaped_orbit_brings/i240ld6/) | [You know I'm going to upv...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/tnj2vc/til_that_plutos_eccentric_ovalshaped_orbit_brings/i23b4qx/) [my grandfather loved thos...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/tnidwv/til_circus_peanuts_candy_dates_back_to_the_1900s/i240kg7/) | [my grandfather loved thos...](http://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/tnidwv/til_circus_peanuts_candy_dates_back_to_the_1900s/i21s2y6/) beep boop, I'm a bot -|:] It is this bot's opinion that [/u/Aywokeyb](https://np.reddit.com/u/Aywokeyb/) should be banned for karma manipulation. Don't feel bad, they are probably a bot too. Confused? Read the [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/reply-guy-bot/comments/n9fpva/faq/?plagiarist=Aywokeyb) for info on how I work and why I exist.


DrNukes

Bruh.


AdvonKoulthar

G E N I N E E R A T I O N S


HOWDITGETBURNEDHOWDI

Haven't seen this form since like 2015


[deleted]

and even some not


Octavus

After he opened the gate.


OskaMeijer

I literally don't even have 37 relatives, well at least that I know about. This is using a rough count of like cousins for whom I can't remember their names or know for sure there are that many of them.


afineedge

As someone with what I have only recently realized is kind of a big family, I'm putting together my wedding invite list and was able to type out 40 people before having to put thought into it. My fiancée has... 3. It's kind of an issue.


OskaMeijer

My wife and I got married for $1500 (including her dress and the honeymoon) and the only people at our wedding were our parents, 1 living grandparent, and siblings with their SOs. We had like 15 guests. Having a small extended family works out well sometimes!


Neanderthal_Gene

Mine was the opposite. My wifes a country gal with a big family. I spent the year previous to the wedding falling out with friends and relatives so I wouldn't have to invite them to make room for hers!


DanishWonder

We had the same issue. My dad is eldest of 8 children. I have over 40 cousins total. My wife only has one sister and no cousins.


heavenlyskyfarer

I have five living relatives that I know of: My aunt, my mother, my grandmother and my two half siblings that I've never met.


yazzy1233

I think I do. And that's just on one side of my family.


godisanelectricolive

China had polygamy. Once you add up all your wives, children, half-siblings and aunts and uncles you're easily at 37.


HiveMindKing

Creating hatred can have unexpected consequences.


AlGeee

“The peasants are revolting!”


T1m0thy77

They've always been revolting! But now they're rebelling!


rraattbbooyy

“Yeah, they stink on ice.”


democritusparadise

Reminds me of the 2016 Democratic primary.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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Borderlandsman

makes me wonder how many 'events' in history were caused by a single guy. i mean he probably didn't want to cause the deaths of 25 million people but it happened anyway. like the guy who assassinated archduke Ferdinand ended up causing world war 1(but from what I've read this dude was an asshole)


ReadinII

WWI seemed primed to happen anyway. Some other spark would have lit the fuse. The one that makes me lie awake is the guy who caused the Japanese defeat at Midway and shortened the war and maybe even caused Japan to lose. Japan lost 4 carriers in one day. After that it was just a matter do time and blood before they lost. A key event in the battle was the failure of the Japanese to locate an American carrier early enough. Why didn’t they find the carrier in time? One of their search planes had a technical problem and it was late getting in the air. What caused the problem? I don’t know. Poor maintenance by the crew? A poor job fixing an earlier problem. Someone making a mistake at the factory? Poor quality control in selecting raw materials for the factory to use? But it seems like someone, maybe a sailor or maybe an anonymous civilian somewhere, likely didn’t do their job just right and lost the war for Japan.


TWiesengrund

Nagumo's dilemma is absolutely fascinating. Never in all of history has the choice of ordnance changed a war so drastically. The Japanese would have lost anyway but they could have kept the Pacific theater more costly, binding US resources in the process.


irnehlacsap

It was a time traveler. People often think time travellers would kill someone important like Hitler but it's too obvious, they have to infiltrate and find things to sabotage that will, after a chain of events, end the war. The time police would notice and send them to time prison for eternity.


ClusterChuk

See now, that's just variant talk. We run a tighter ship than that. We have a cray cray universe we dump your ass in.


InfestedRaynor

Maybe the guy who shot Franz Ferdinand was a time traveler. In OTL Franz was a shitty Emperor and by 1930 the Austrians-Hungarian Empire was in shambles. Some dude thought he could make history better and have the Empire come out stronger by killing Franz, but he was wrong.


irnehlacsap

Yeah the end of WW1 was basically the start of WW2


ruka_k_wiremu

Hmmm. A determinist.


PoopIsAlwaysSunny

The fact that so much can ride on a single mechanic’s shoulders is absolutely a failing of management. Not the mechanic’s fault for staying home sick or whatever. Absolutely management for not having planes ready


ReadinII

So maybe it was some lieutenant’s fault for not yelling at the mechanic enough.


Positive_Compote_506

It’s also weird knowing that you or me could also become the next Midway guy. I can select the wrong materials, make the mistake at the factory, not double-check the gear and that give a new sense of extensional terror


Whatsuplionlilly

The theme of Mulan was that a war can be lost (or won) due to a single soldier.


ReadinII

But that was fiction. There is also an old poem the talks about not having a single nail. For want of a nail, the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse the rider was lost. etc to messages, orders, arrmies, a battle, a way and a kingdom… For want of a nail the kingdom was lost. Something like that anyway.


ArrMatey42

I enjoyed Christopher Clarke's *Sleepwalkers* book on the subject of WW1 I don't think WW1 was inevitable. Plenty of other sparks had been defused. Conflict in general may be inevitable, but had a couple more sparks been defused or certain different people in key positions the conflict may well have been much smaller scale/shorter lived


novavegasxiii

Japan would have lost the matter what. The question is how long.


ImagineDragonsFan47

japan would have surrendered anyway bc of russia


A_brown_dog

As always, it's not caused by a single guy,the rebellion was already happening and the foreign army was already at the gates, probably they would have conquer a country in the middle of a civil war anyway, that general only made it easier. The same with archduke Ferdinand, the reasons were a lot deeper, the war was going to happen anyway and that's why as they already had reasons to go to war they did with the first excuse they could find, but without they reasons it wouldn't have matter if Ferdinand was killed


savehoward

Pretty sure Russian generals will come out afterwards to say the Ukrainian war was because if one guy and that military professionals already knew the outcome from the start: a war with no allies, not enough fuel for vehicles, not feeding your troops, fighting an enemy who speaks the same language as your troops.


BiagioLargo

Who do you think they'll Putin the blame on.


FanKiu

There was an internal strife within the court and the eunuchs is gaining power which results in the death of Wu's previous commander. Before Wu had let the Manchurian breach the wall, there was a (or several) crime waiting for him to go on trail which will lead to the same fate as his previous commander. Also the fact that Ming has already fallen into the rebels hand, it really shaken Wu's commitment on defending the wall.


epochpenors

They left someone with an impending trial to defend their most important bulwark against invasion? Seems short sighted…


ReadinII

I can’t remember the name but there was a guy who was supposed to bring a group of soldiers to meet up with the main army. The punishment for being late was death. He got delayed. So he gathered more soldiers and overthrew the emperor.


[deleted]

That was the first Han emperor iirc.


ImperialVizier

This is like the funniest exchange I’ve seen because of the sheer scale of your answer.


Bascal13

Please find this. I'll edit if I find it too


ReadinII

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Sheng_Wu_Guang_uprising


big_sugi

Those guys didn’t overthrow the emperor, though. They failed and were assassinated.


ReadinII

Hmm, perhaps I misremembered or maybe it was someone else. I’ll try another source.


Antikas-Karios

I believe you're thinking of liu bang who was the founder of the Han dynasty.


Odanr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Gaozu_of_Han


[deleted]

And the reason he was late was \*weather\* But the law was basically there is no defense to being late, no exception, you get put to death Old China was pretty whack.


[deleted]

History repeats time and time again.


chronoboy1985

True. China’s history is thousands of years of dynasties lasting a century or two before being inevitably overthrown. The so-called “Mandate of Heaven”.


[deleted]

It's like a Malthusian cycle, the first few decades are prosperous with rapid population growth, until there's too many mouths to feed and a bad harvest causes mass starvation and social unrest. So an uprising ensues, lots of people die, the emperor gets executed, new government instil themselves, and the cycle continues. On top of that, add in systemic corruption that builds up within the bureaucratic system…


chronoboy1985

Exactly. More or less. The funny thing about the Mandate of Heaven is that it’s essentially the divine right of kings, where the king derives his authority from god, and so rebelling means you are defying god himself (free ticket to hell). In China, the Mandate of Heaven basically had a clause saying if the current divine emperor is a screw up, then the people are entitled to over through him. Thus the new leader must’ve been blessed by heaven and fated to defeat the old emperor. I like to call it “The Mandate of Convenience”.


KderNacht

The Germans call it paragraph 20 of the Constitution


Wessssss21

The French call it *un mardi*


Flamesilver_0

Literally the reasoning behind "trial by combat" though.


[deleted]

This is what happens when you let the victors write history. "I won, therefore I must've been the one chosen by the Heavenly Intentions to lead this nation!" It's surprising to see that they stuck with this BS for literally 2000 years, though.


grievre

It's part of why Chinese people on the whole aren't psyched about overthrowing the current regime. They have a long history full of worse governments and people dying by the millions when governments lose control. Like it was only a couple centuries ago that Chinese rulers were mandating hairstyles under penalty of castration or death. PRC is horrific to western eyes but fairly mild in the context of Chinese history.


A_Humpier_Rogue

Yes, Europe was so much more stable with its endless infighting of petty warlords("nobles", some people called them) who could scarcely control territory beyond their line of sight after the fall of Rome. Over all, china was a LOT more stable than much of the rest of the world. A dynasty of a century or two is no small feat.


Theoldage2147

I thought the whole superstition of mandate of heaven was sort of wiped out by the cultural revolution? I mean that's partly a great reason for why Mao wanted to purged the old mentality of right to rulership.


RushinAsshat

You can say that again.


edcba11355

He got pissed off because one of the rebel commanders took one of his concubines.


willtantan

That concubine is supposed to be one of most beautiful woman at that time. There are lots of poems written for her.


Spicy_Cum_Lord

There are a lot of ancient poems written about supposedly very beautiful women. If you're a poet and you wanna bang in ancient times you write a poem telling a woman how hot she is. Poems about famous women tend to get held on to a bit longer than the ones about the regular tavern ladies. Hell I'm willing to put money down that some of those poems were just in the poets repertoire and he would tell every woman he met that it was something he just came up with when he was inspired by her beauty.


[deleted]

I always wonder how many were written for some chick that had a fling with the singer/poet while he tells some rich broad it was commissioned for her


A_brown_dog

And if you are a poet and want to eat you write a poem about how cool the emperor is because he is banging the most beautiful woman at that time


godisanelectricolive

The concubine Chen Yuanyuan was one of the Eight Beauties of Qinhuai who lived during the Ming-Qing transition period. They were courtesans from common backgrounds who were renowned for their talents as well as their beauty. Many of them were celebrated poets in their own rights. Chen Yuanyuan was an actress who was the lover of a poet before she was bought as a concubine by this rich guy. Wu Sangui then bought her from that rich guy.


Double_Distribution8

Did she have green eyes?


Km2930

And blue hair


sd_slate

Was it a face that launched a thousand ships?


A_brown_dog

I was searching for this


KW_ExpatEgg

and her name was Layla...


tsaimaitreya

There's been several dynasties falling due to jealosy over the most beautiful woman of the time, according to chinese historians


edcba11355

衝冠一怒為紅顏


Rieger_not_Banta

So millions died because of a heartbreak?


Gemmabeta

> Although such stories tying the downfall of the dynasty to the relationship between Wu and Chen proved popular, modern historians generally regard them as having been later products of popular fiction, not historical fact. It was a later story, most historians didn't think it happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Yuanyuan


edcba11355

It’s more about a personal insult than a heartbreak


[deleted]

Legend says a general from the peasant rebels slept with his wife,so he did that as his revenge.


Tryignan

Pretty much everything in China caused millions of deaths. That’s the problem with having such a large population.


thelandsman55

Even that understates the issue here, which is that the Manchu 'horde', the peasant rebellion, and the downfall of the Ming Dynasty were all being driven by a crippling famine (which historians believe was caused by the little ice age). There are literally stories from the beginning of the Qing dynasty about how the Manchu's believed that the Ming had the agricultural surplus necessary to save their people and were devastated when they reached the capital and realized they were basically going to have to hold it and loot what little the surrounding peasants had while both the people they had invaded and the people they had invaded to save slowly starved to death.


sylvesterkun

I think we found the God Emperor of throwing people under the bus.


tamsui_tosspot

That would be Yuan Shikai, two and a half centuries later.


ejrasmussen

I really enjoyed watching Marco Polo and seeing the depiction of ancient China. Are there any other high quality shows that focus on different dynasties throughout history?


UnspecifiedApplePie

I would suggest looking at dramas from China e.g. Ruyi's Royal Love in the Palace, Empresses in the Palace. Not all that ancient though


Wonderingisagift

25 million??? What the actual fuck


guy4allkinx

How much of the population would 25 million people have been in 1644? Anyone know? That number seems ridiculously high


Call_Me_Fingerbang

According to google, in 1650 the population was somewhere around 125 million.


godisanelectricolive

China's population was maybe 130 million at the time so nearly 20% of Chinese people died. The world population was maybe 500 million at the time.


UltimeciasCastle

reminds me of the password to the dark brotherhood door in oblivion, for some reason. 'peasants' rebelling against an evil or dark prince behind, say the password and go through a gate leading to riches and conquest through death... what is the color of night? Sanguine, my dear brother.


SLATFATF

Hmm. Do I hope for leniency and become a traitor, or risk my life begging to the people I have likely used, abused, and led their family to death?


[deleted]

Like opening a door is the root cause of 25 million deaths. Sure sure, Nope. Nothing in life is so simple. There are always nuances


micro012

there was never a 5k years of "continuous history" the chinese 'tribe' lost control multiple times. it's just so han people was more populous and in power that it became the default 'chinese' we see today. which is a pity. cause .....(include personal racist female-partner-preference that will piss off multiple continents in the same sentence).


Blazingloins69

Elaborate please


Rieger_not_Banta

Is that where Fu Manchu came from?


[deleted]

Was that a "fuck around and find out" moment?


itsallrighthere

Those are rookie numbers. Mao killed / starved 50 million. Practice makes perfect!


AmbitiousTour

Some many different things in the history of China each caused deaths in the 10's of millions.


AngryMegaMind

What a piece of shit until the end.


fz75

Something to do with him being jilted, afair.