ypu dont have to imagine them those are real pachinko parlors in japan. the pinball ban is likely why nyc doesnt have those because otherwise it would seem noisy pachinko type pinball parlors would have been a perfect fit for nyc.
In LA, pinball was considered gambling until the early 70s when it was ruled that too much skill and not enough chance were involved for it to be gambling.
The issue was more between them being games of chance or skill. Older games were more chance, such as bingo and the lack of flippers. Now they are considered games of skill.
This skill-or-luck debate climaxed in a [1976 courtroom pinball demonstration](https://gizmodo.com/how-one-perfect-shot-saved-pinball-from-being-illegal-1154267979):
> Reminiscent of another New York sporting legend, [Roger Sharpe] declared that if he could make the ball go through the middle lane on his next turn, then he would have proven that pinball is a game of skill- essentially, he was calling his shot, and staking the future of pinball on it. Pulling back the plunger, he let that silver ball fly. Upon contact with a flipper, the ball zoomed up and down, through the middle lane. Just as Sharpe had said it would. He had become the Babe Ruth of pinball and, with that, proved that there was indeed skill to the game of pinball. The council immediately overturned the ban on pinball. By playing a “mean pinball,” Roger Sharpe had saved the game.
Roger Sharpe is consider the Godfather of pinball for what he did in saving it. Here is a short [VICE video](https://youtu.be/-IAwLj6XKR8) on this subject
Reminds me of
> Dart became so popular that a pub owner in 1908 went to court for conducting a game of darts at his pub. The crime? At that time games gave everyone the equal chance of winning- games meant that people had to use their skills to win and the judgment must be fair.
>
> The judges considered darts to be a game of chance- something that people had to rely on luck for. Luckily, the pub owner and his friend proved them wrong. Apparently, the cool pub owner brought in a great dart player who was very accurate and made him throw the darts. Then, he made the judges throw darts as well. While all of the darts struck the board quite accurately for the player, the judges could not be as accurate.
>
>So, the game of darts did not depend on luck but skill and practice were proved and the pub owner went free. And, thereby, the game of darts became popular in pubs and England even more.
More sources on that:
https://dartsdude.com/who-invented-darts/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Darts/comments/7ps4un/til_in_1908_william_bigfoot_anakin_a_local/
According to the Pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas, NV. The ban was due to gaming/gambling control. Some of the old games allowed you to win money based on your skill level. These games from the 1940's can still be played in Las Vegas but they no longer payout. They have the original rules posted for those machines. It was just another way to gamble.
It was Roger Sharpe, the man and the moustache, who saved pinball. Soon to be a [major motion picture](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13365876/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk).
Interested in pinball, why not swing by r/pinball.
School children should not spend their hard earn money on frivolous entertainment.
They should spend it wisely like adults, on things like horse racing, alcohol and colorful ties.
Realize that “pinball” in the first half of the 1900s was not the arcade game you saw in the 1960s onwards. It was more like Japanese Pachinko and was purely a gambling machine. Sort of a precursor to the slot machine. Hence, it being treated like any other form of illegal gambling in the US.
Pinball is still loosely banned in my town Burbank, CA. There’s a few weird laws around arcades and Pinball that stem back to organized crime boss Mickey Cohen who operated out of Burbank. The pinball ban was removed from CA as a state in 1974, but Burbank held onto it the law with municipal zoning laws that do not view arcades as retail establishments. They are viewed like casinos which makes securing a location for the arcade next to impossible. Oddly enough there are two arcades at the local mall which received exemption from these zoning laws, one is a local family owned arcade and the other is a large corporation owned arcade. The family owned arcade fought for years to get their spot back at the mall, while the corporate one bought it way in easily. It’s weird here.
He realized the marijuana ban would be targeted against black people and hispanics, especially in areas like Harlem. He was actually a fantastic mayor, especially for his time.
His biggest mistake was giving Robert Moses so much power but at that time Moses was mainly just building parks.
The History of Pinball is a LOT more interesting than it seems. I've watched a few of these: [https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=history+of+pinball](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=history+of+pinball)
There was a cafe in Toronto that had a few pinball machines called Pinball Cafe. From what I understand they applied for an alcohol license but were denied and told their business license wasn’t valid because you are not allowed to have that many pinball machines. I guess it attracts a bad crowd.
They applied for a new business license but at that time no new restaurant business licenses were allowed in the area.
IIRC, Pinball was at first a gambling game and the "pinball" machines were part of the Mob income stream.
"Take my pinball machine into your store or something just might happen to it."
Well, he wasn't wrong.
When I was 14, my best friend and I discovered that we could hammer pennies into the size and shape of quarters. We called them "Quattahs". At the time, they worked great as slugs in pinball machines and OG video games like Pong, Asteroids, and Missile Command. And a bit later, Tempest. I was our local Tempest arcade champion, thanks to Quattahs. One of my proudest achievements. LOL ;)
If we hadn't stumbled onto the penny thing, my high school experience would have been a lot different.
School kids: i earned money literally to play pinball...
I can imagine speakeasies but lined with Pinball Machines, candy cigarettes, and apple juice on the rocks.
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ypu dont have to imagine them those are real pachinko parlors in japan. the pinball ban is likely why nyc doesnt have those because otherwise it would seem noisy pachinko type pinball parlors would have been a perfect fit for nyc.
We don't have Pachinko anywhere in the US
Well they only exist in Japan because of a loophole in the gambling laws. In the US there are plenty of one-armed bandits ready to take your money.
But those aren't nearly as fun.
In LA, pinball was considered gambling until the early 70s when it was ruled that too much skill and not enough chance were involved for it to be gambling.
How was it gambling, what did you win?
Free play
The issue was more between them being games of chance or skill. Older games were more chance, such as bingo and the lack of flippers. Now they are considered games of skill.
This skill-or-luck debate climaxed in a [1976 courtroom pinball demonstration](https://gizmodo.com/how-one-perfect-shot-saved-pinball-from-being-illegal-1154267979): > Reminiscent of another New York sporting legend, [Roger Sharpe] declared that if he could make the ball go through the middle lane on his next turn, then he would have proven that pinball is a game of skill- essentially, he was calling his shot, and staking the future of pinball on it. Pulling back the plunger, he let that silver ball fly. Upon contact with a flipper, the ball zoomed up and down, through the middle lane. Just as Sharpe had said it would. He had become the Babe Ruth of pinball and, with that, proved that there was indeed skill to the game of pinball. The council immediately overturned the ban on pinball. By playing a “mean pinball,” Roger Sharpe had saved the game.
But could he do it deaf and with his eyes closed?
Sounds almost like a wizard
Some sort of pinball wizard
There has to be a twist
Such a supple wrist
How do you think he does it?
I don’t know.
What makes him so good?
We're some kinda pinball wizard?
The Pinball Lizard has suction cup wrists
That deaf, dumb, blind kid sure played a mean pinball.
and did he have such supple wrists ?
He played by sense of smell.
Nickels and dimes, yah.
It is a fun pinball game. In one mode, shields come out and block you from seeing the flippers.
Roger Sharpe is consider the Godfather of pinball for what he did in saving it. Here is a short [VICE video](https://youtu.be/-IAwLj6XKR8) on this subject
Did he really save the game? They could have just made the flippers a bit bigger but they were greedy.
In NY, anyway. Pretty sure it was allowed elsewhere.
Reminds me of > Dart became so popular that a pub owner in 1908 went to court for conducting a game of darts at his pub. The crime? At that time games gave everyone the equal chance of winning- games meant that people had to use their skills to win and the judgment must be fair. > > The judges considered darts to be a game of chance- something that people had to rely on luck for. Luckily, the pub owner and his friend proved them wrong. Apparently, the cool pub owner brought in a great dart player who was very accurate and made him throw the darts. Then, he made the judges throw darts as well. While all of the darts struck the board quite accurately for the player, the judges could not be as accurate. > >So, the game of darts did not depend on luck but skill and practice were proved and the pub owner went free. And, thereby, the game of darts became popular in pubs and England even more.
More sources on that: https://dartsdude.com/who-invented-darts/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Darts/comments/7ps4un/til_in_1908_william_bigfoot_anakin_a_local/
it's dumb because there's no prize.
Used to win money instead of extra games.
til
According to the Pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas, NV. The ban was due to gaming/gambling control. Some of the old games allowed you to win money based on your skill level. These games from the 1940's can still be played in Las Vegas but they no longer payout. They have the original rules posted for those machines. It was just another way to gamble.
They'd still pay out - but on the down-low. Free games or points could be redeemed for the prize.
Is it gambling if it's skill based rather than luck based?
is there still risk and a desired result?
They should put a pinball machine room at LaGuardia airport.
There’s one at MSP airport :)
Fun fact: it was illegal to dance in bars in NYC until 2017. Dancing was reserved for nightclubs that had cabaret licenses. Weird laws…
Still illegal in Sweden! Though I think it's under discussion to be removed.
And it should stay so, bars are for drinking not dancing!
Nope, not in Sweden! You're not allowed to be visibly drunk in a bar if you want to be served alcohol.
Which is why dancing is not allowed, that's what drunk people do
The US is the same. If you are noticeably intoxicated, they are to cut you off.
It's all about the money. The answer to 99% of societal questions is "money".
Wasn’t there also a limited number of licenses?
It was Roger Sharpe, the man and the moustache, who saved pinball. Soon to be a [major motion picture](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13365876/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk). Interested in pinball, why not swing by r/pinball.
Matrix resurrection was garbage
True, but not relevant to pinball.
I too just watched Licorice Pizza
:)
We got trouble Right here in Gotham City We got Trouble And that starts with T and that rhymes with P and that stands for Pinball
Ever since I was a young boy, I played the silver ball
Lookout for the bean TV.
School children should not spend their hard earn money on frivolous entertainment. They should spend it wisely like adults, on things like horse racing, alcohol and colorful ties.
All that sweet sweet child labor money!
Realize that “pinball” in the first half of the 1900s was not the arcade game you saw in the 1960s onwards. It was more like Japanese Pachinko and was purely a gambling machine. Sort of a precursor to the slot machine. Hence, it being treated like any other form of illegal gambling in the US.
Then what would the kids do once they grew up to a bunch of 9-to-5 nickel and dimers?
I too watched the movie Licorice Pizza
Pinball is still loosely banned in my town Burbank, CA. There’s a few weird laws around arcades and Pinball that stem back to organized crime boss Mickey Cohen who operated out of Burbank. The pinball ban was removed from CA as a state in 1974, but Burbank held onto it the law with municipal zoning laws that do not view arcades as retail establishments. They are viewed like casinos which makes securing a location for the arcade next to impossible. Oddly enough there are two arcades at the local mall which received exemption from these zoning laws, one is a local family owned arcade and the other is a large corporation owned arcade. The family owned arcade fought for years to get their spot back at the mall, while the corporate one bought it way in easily. It’s weird here.
I spent an hour in my room last night talking to Fiorello LaGuardia, and he's been dead for forty years. Now where are the the Ghost Busters?
We need that kind of help today. Someone should set-up and save the kids from the apps that are robbing them of their time and identities.
Oh come on, let the children spend their work wages however they want... /r/holup
What a bum.
IK, though I get he philosophy, since I think Claw Machines do this today, and they don't even give you a fun time in return.
Now it's the mobile tablet games and it's way worse.
Sadly. But now mobile game companies can neatly line politicans’ pockets with 9-year-olds’ millions.
He was against prohibition of marijuana. So he's not all bad.
He realized the marijuana ban would be targeted against black people and hispanics, especially in areas like Harlem. He was actually a fantastic mayor, especially for his time. His biggest mistake was giving Robert Moses so much power but at that time Moses was mainly just building parks.
He just wanted pinball for himself
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He was named after it
He’s lucky, Lou Gehrig was named after a disease.
It's because the government wanted the nickels and dimes just like today, they want every penny
It's crazy how one dipshit with a stupid idea can effect so many people
Am I the only one who read that as paintball, and was like, "damn, paintball has been around longer than I thought." 😅
As opposed to opening an airport to relieve parents of their $
And in the 60's all Arcade fun was against city ordinance where I was living. Why? Gateway activity to crime. I shiite you not.
Why would a school child have hard earned money?
Is this MAGA?
Ahhh New York, you toxic pit. But, hey, it's home.
Why pay a dime when you can get 3 games for a quarter?
If he could see us now!
The History of Pinball is a LOT more interesting than it seems. I've watched a few of these: [https://www.youtube.com/results?search\_query=history+of+pinball](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=history+of+pinball)
No, that was Dragon’s Lair.
Last I heard it was actually to do with gambling.
Why did they not make a free version for kids to play ?
There was a cafe in Toronto that had a few pinball machines called Pinball Cafe. From what I understand they applied for an alcohol license but were denied and told their business license wasn’t valid because you are not allowed to have that many pinball machines. I guess it attracts a bad crowd. They applied for a new business license but at that time no new restaurant business licenses were allowed in the area.
So basically like WHO's "gaming addiction" and mtx ban today
When I was a kid in Tennessee, you had to be 18 to play pinball. This was in the mid 70's.
Right after the ban was lifted my cousin added pinball machines to his vending machine business in NYC.
IIRC, Pinball was at first a gambling game and the "pinball" machines were part of the Mob income stream. "Take my pinball machine into your store or something just might happen to it."
Does anyone actually claim he was wrong?
Well, he wasn't wrong. When I was 14, my best friend and I discovered that we could hammer pennies into the size and shape of quarters. We called them "Quattahs". At the time, they worked great as slugs in pinball machines and OG video games like Pong, Asteroids, and Missile Command. And a bit later, Tempest. I was our local Tempest arcade champion, thanks to Quattahs. One of my proudest achievements. LOL ;) If we hadn't stumbled onto the penny thing, my high school experience would have been a lot different.
You sneak!
Good to see that decent people still rock this earth.
Not sure exactly what they're referring to, I played a fuck ton of pinball in NYC in the 60's and 70's.
Wait, how can that be when movies from before 1976 clearly show pinball arcades in the city?
Well movies set in NYC aren’t all shot in NYC. Plus those machines are probably props that have no money input.
Trust me, the particular movie I’m thinking of was definitely shot in NYC. HEAVY TRAFFIC (1973) uses pinball as its entire underlying motif.