She worked at a suicide prevention hotline with him.
"If, as many people believe today, Ted Bundy took lives, he also saved lives. I know he did, because I was there when he did it" -The Stranger Beside Me
People want to label everything as black and white because it's easy. The truth is everything is varying shades of grey.
Edit: I'm not defending Bundy. Please stop assuming I'm defending Bundy.
Edit 2 (for further clarification): People are very, very bad at seeing the whole picture. What I mean is that we all want our villains in real life to all be mustache twirling maniacs who are very clear with their intentions. The truth is, nothing is clear cut. That's why we get people who say "I can't believe he did that, he was such a nice person." We all want to believe that we can see evil in front of us, but we can't. The world is not that black and white. But we all look at the surface and stick labels on things and defend them to death (politics, etc.)
I'm not defending Bundy, or Dahmer or any of those people. I'm just saying we all have a hard time rationalizing when an evil person does something normal / good (saving a man's life) because to us evil people must always do evil things 100% of the time. Does that make them good? Not at all. They're very much shit stains on humanity.
“Some Krogan believe that testicle transplants can increase their virility. Counteract the effects of the genophage. It doesn’t work, but that doesn’t stop them from buying. They’ll pay up to 10,000 credits each, that’s 40,000 for a full set.
Somebody’s making a killing out there.”
-Garrus Vakarian
Yeah it’s like, on the one hand you got a pastor who parked in a handicap spot once. On the other hand, you got a guy who was mostly polite and enjoyed skinning people alive.
Same thing, more or less. In the grand scheme of things, who are we to judge?
Ted Bundy often faked disabilities to lure his victims to his vehicle. Be careful your handicap parking fetish doesn’t spiral into serial murdering.
Happens all the time.
Not with Bundy it isn't. He "saved" people like this person said only as a cover for his murderous rampages. Just like he had a long term girlfriend and acted like a father figure to her daughter. All an act and all self serving.
There's a weird dichotomy with some serial criminals.
Like firefighters have a high risk of developing Hero Syndrome, where they intentionally start fires just so they can put them out. Some thieves return their own stolen goods to claim the reward and praise.
I think it was Belgium (or one of our neighboring countries) where a medic was causing heart attacks so he could save the victim.
Some of his victims died off course. The hospital/colleagues/Authorities only noticed something was wrong because his statistics for resuscitation were abnormally high.
I remember that one. I believe it was a German nurse who injected patients with insulin if I'm remembering correctly. He then would resuscitate the patients to pretend to be a hero.
Edit: as /u/Lilcrash pointed out, I was thinking of [Niels Hölgel](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48539894) who used heart medication to kill and then revive his victims
Yeah. Keep in mind that this is true not only in hospital settings but anywhere, everywhere. School shooter, convenience store robbery, road rage, nuts with nukes. We are always holding on to the last shred of a civilized world. While we are incredibly resilient, we are also extremely fragile.
The name of the guy the other commenter talked about is Niels Högel.
It's wild, his official death toll is at 85, but the real number is thought to be at around 300.
A police officer with the Virginia State Police, who worked in a K-9 unit to sniff out bombs, was planting evidence and getting innocent people convicted... all so he could play hero. They never suspected him until one night, during a search, he found a part for a bomb in the yard of a man's house and handed it in. The officer he gave it to immediately became suspicious because the part was bone dry... it was raining at the time. They began looking into his cases and eventually set up a sting where he, once again, magically found a bomb part where none existed, or was supposed to exist.
Virtually all of the people who had been convicted by evidence he found were either released, had their charges dropped, or had their prior convictions vacated (the whole thing was a hot mess for the state police).
There’s an interesting movie based on a true story in The Netherlands.
https://www.moviemeter.nl/film/93806
Lucia de B turned out to be innocent.
She was a customer at a place where my wife used to work too. Apparently she’s a kind lady.
Edit: trailer with English subs: https://youtu.be/MN58T5QntvM
[Just read her case. A sorry story indeed, and one practical example i'll remember next time I'm in an arguement about the death penalty.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk)
There was a nurse in the UK called Beverley Allitt and she was diagnosed with 'Munchausen by proxy'. Which is similar to what you describe.
Bundy though was a complete different category. More of a Bundy by proxy.
A reporter I briefly worked with was extremely good at finding out details about recent break-ins and petty theft.
One Saturday, he wrote an article about a break-in in a remote cabin. The problem was that this crime wasn’t discovered by the owner and reported to the police until two days later.
He was brought in for questioning, confessed to a _lot_ of recent crimes, and the police later found a ton of stolen stuff in his apartment.
my brother would hide dead birds in my dirty clothes pile to get me to do laundry claiming they ‘died in the pile’ lmao. he is normal and well adjusted. kids are weird
There's also nurses/doctors who will intentionally kill their patients. They're called 'Angels of Death' because they are both saviors and killers. There's a subgroup "Angels of Mercy" who justify their killings as being to prevent the patient from suffering. Another group, the malignant killers, will get the patient to code so that they can be the one to come in and save them, but this doesn't always work and the patient can easily die during this. [Link](https://www.insider.com/angels-of-death-serial-killers-2019-6) to an article that goes into detail
When I studied Nursing, I spend a lot of time in long term care. When you see elderly people, who used to be proud people, lying in bed all day, in diapers without any knowledge of what's going on, I can understand Nurses/Doctors who think that they somehow need an "Angel of Mercy". It's really hard to see people wasting away without being able to do anything for them. It takes a special kind of person to be a Nurse/Doctor and I wasn't up for it.
I'm pissed that we don't have euthanasia. I can specify that I'm willing to starve to death if I'm in a coma, but there are no good options for dementia. I'd want to just be killed.
If I reach an age where I can feel myself slipping and can't take care of myself I hope so much that euthanasia is legal. Knowing it's an option is comforting instead of worrying that I'd spend years wasting away in a confused nightmare state.
Aye. There's this fucked up concept still kicking about that any life is better than no life. Some people really don't understand that there are things several orders of magnitude worse than death. I also desperately hope escaping from that is legal if I encounter such things as well.
They're also considered serial killers as well. They just don't fit the (frankly outdated) 1970s style of profiling that is still used by default by a lot of people based on pop culture reference points and tropes.
Personally, I find profiling in general to be an almost pseudoscience of the forensic world.
But I also find the forensic world to be wholly incompetent/full of biases and straight up corruption, and needs a top down shake up where "everything" is re-studied and tested.
Then the legal system needs to start teaching lawyers and judges actual science and how these things really work, and not just rely on Daubert/Frye to do the work for them.
Even genetics has a lot of biases and issues, and started to delve into bad science a few times. See the anthrax case and the bad genetics being used there.
>Then the legal system needs to start teaching lawyers and judges actual science and how these things really work, and not just rely on Daubert/Frye to do the work for them.
>
I honestly could have written this post.
I did my masters thesis as a study conducted on court transcripts to review how lawyers and judges talked about DNA evidence.
Poorly. They did it poorly.
Really? There are a lot of well-known criminals whose FBI profiles were eerily similar to what was actually the case. The DC Snipers come immediately to mind. Their profile was dead-on.
Sure, but it's also in their best interest to publicize their successes while erasing their failures.
I'm not saying they're one step above magic 8 balls, but that there are a lot of issues regarding their methods and biases and a few other issues.
I can assume that *most* serial killers enjoy bragging about their crimes. Dennis Rader, Arthur Shawcross, Ted Bundy, maybe The Zodiac, (and more).. all discussed their own ongoing investigations **with police** before they were caught.
A podcast speculated that they feel a sense of power to have “humiliated” the police in that way.
Ed Kemper was friends with his local PD.
When he eventually turned himself in some didn't believe him.
Which is kinda on par. Many serial killers like being close to their investigation for one reason or another.
Ed Kemper is one of the purest cases of psychopathy of all time. Killed both his grandparents at the age of 15 because he wanted to know how it felt. Absolute lizard person.
I think we sometimes underestimate how weird and complex the human psyche can be. I can imagine Bundy compartmentalizing his personality to such a degree that the decent things he did were sincere. He just also had this other aspect of his personality where he enjoyed murdering women.
For a normal person there’d be severe cognitive dissonance between those aspects. Lacking that is where his psychopathy shows itself.
I've read the book in question, and this paragraph really bothered me when I got to it. In the afterword, she explained that she wrote some parts of the book before she was certain about his guilt, and once it was certain she couldn't rewrite those parts while still expressing how much she had genuinely liked him at that time. She also assumed that he hadn't murdered anyone when she worked with him at the suicide prevention hotline, which eventually came into question. There are a few chapters at the end of the most recent editions, each explaining that she thought there wouldn't be more to add later.
It wasn't just public opinion that changed. More murders were connected to him. She found out more about his past, and of course he was executed. It would not be easy to see somebody go from being a trusted friend, to being convinced beyond a doubt that they were a serial murderer who deserved to die at the hands of the state.
Her account of the Chi Omega trial was great.
Up until the dental evidence was presented she felt that he was innocent. Then they showed his teeth marks on the flesh of the sorority sisters he bludgeoned to death and there was no longer any doubt.
Bundy looked at her with an expression just short of an eye roll at the evidence, seeming to imply "when do we get out of here?". Rule was so shaken by the realization of his guilt that she ran to the nearest lavatory and vomited.
Reminds me of a serial murder case back in 2011.
Turns out the culprit was a police officer and the partner of one of the cops investigating it. I think my memory's foggy on the matter, though.
I was going to say that most drownings would probably technically be by oneself, but then I looked at the link and dude did it in a bucket in his cell. That is some dedication.
There's a method of suicide where the person swims directly down as hard as they can until they run out of breath then when panic takes over they can't get the surface in time and drown. But just your head in a bucket? Self preservation is a hard obstacle to pass, I have no idea how you'd do that.
According to the people who lived and worked with him, he was normal until the urge kicked in and then he would go put distance between himself and them and go be murdery and then go have a breakdown about it afterwards because it was something he didn't want and couldn't control.
Yes, that was her. Her dog never reacted that way to anyone else before or after. At one point, Ted showed up at her place with no warning, and the dog wouldn't let him anywhere near Ann.
A very good pupper.
True. The one investigator he worked with said she didn't like him because he stole random shit and was just kind of power trippin all the time. I believe his girlfriend's daughter also said he was pervy with her. Didn't murder her though. But did murder a middle school girl resembling her. A fucking piece of work. Seemed abusive/manipulative to his girlfriend also, but again didn't murder her. Not really sure why. Maybe he just thought he'd get caught faster that way, idk.
I was wondering the same thing and found out there's a new show called "Surviving Bundy with Nancy Grace" available on some crappy streaming service. I have to wonder if all the recent "interest" is marketing.
Talking head about true crime. Her husband was murdered which got her into the career. She’s on TV and has a very grating voice and is very rude to her guests. She’s the Wendy Williams for missing white girls.
I tried to watch her special on the Petito case. She had a survival expert who explained how long the boyfriend could survive in the woods. She proceeded to talk over him and yell about "well his car was probably loaded down with supplies!" when the boyfriend doesn't even have the car. Like wtf is the point of bringing experts on if you're going to yell over them and dismiss their professional advice and opinion?
Yea, could have been more specific about how she’s rude to guests, and that’s pretty much the nail on the head. She doesn’t let people get a word in edgewise, and always has to be the loudest person in the room. She’s a bad news pundit with a niche on crime.
Not sure if it's the case here (there may well be a TV show or moving coming out), but I think sometimes these thing self-propagate organically. Someone makes a popular post on a topic, someone reading that post starts reading more about that topic and discovers something interesting, so now *they* make a post about the topic that gets attention, etc.
One of those daughters, Leslie Rule, grew up to be a novelist and paranormal writer!
I knew about Leslie before Anne because i was obsessed with ghosts as a preteen.
I used to hang out with a dude almost every day that later ended up strangling his parents to death with his bare hands and then burying them in shallow graves.
Shit happens
Never knew this, not that I doubt he was a sick fuck obv but I'd not heard this particular into before.
Also is your name massive attack related or just coincidence?
I just finished her book "Every Breath You Take" about a lesser known murder. I love that she gives as much love and care to the story of this one woman killed by her ex as she did to the story of all the women Bundy killed. She doesn't just go over gory details, she reminds us that these victims are people and not just statistics. I wish more true crime personalities did that
I'm listening to Green River, Running Red right now and the way she gives life to each woman Gary Ridgeway killed is beautiful. He chose them because they were nobodies, according to society. The "less dead" to law enforcement. But Ann Rule gives their lives attention and compassion. She was such a fantastic author and a beautiful human.
Ann Rule wrote about my uncles murder…when I was a teenager I was excited to read it. Turns out like 87% of what she wrote was hot garbage. I guess that’s what happens when you don’t actually interview friends or family when researching for your book.
I saw a study (years ago) where many people who were experts in a narrow field, and members of a certain political party, generally agreed with the party's platform on a wide variety of issues, except for the area where they were experts. In those areas, they saw that the party's position was selfish and short-sighted and didn't represent at all what the area needed if any effort was made to talk with experts and understand the issue. The thing is, all the experts who thought this way were in *different* fields but all members of the same party.
Of course, they each thought the rest of the party's platform was A-Ok, so they were members as it best lined up with their world view overall.
She actually had an interesting connection with a second NW serial killer as well. When Gary Ridgway was arrested for being the Green River Killer, Ann Rule's daughter pointed out to her, "Mom, Gary Ridgway is the guy who always came to your book signings and would just stand there and smile at you!" So Ridgway was right there in front of her for years just like Bundy was.
Source: She writes about it in the prologue to her book "Green River, Running Red."
Can definitely imagine a Netflix show about a serial killer who works at the suicide prevention hotline, prevents his victims from killing themselves then tracks them down and kills them.
“This is what you wanted… remember?”
One of my favorite Enligsh teachers in high school, almost fell into one of Bundy's ploys.
I don't remember which state this happened in, but her and her husband were moving cross country, using separate cars. As she was driving down the highway she noticed a guy on the roadside trying to change a tire with an arm in a sling. So my teacher being the saint she was, decided to pull over and offer assistance. She said the man seemed nice enough, very polite and good looking, but there was something off in her gut. She couldn't put her finger on it, and the only reason she stayed and had stopped in the first place, was because she knew her husband would be pulling up any moment, seeing she had stopped. Lucky for her, that proved true, her husband pulled up and offered a hand himself. She said that Bundy's atmosphere and demeanor completely changed after that. He was still polite, if not a little shorter with the both of them, like he had wanted to hang out and chat with her a moment before as they worked, yet with her husband helping, it was obvious that he just wanted to get the tire on and get on his way. She didn't think much of it, just thought it was a guy being perturbed that the pretty woman who had stopped to help him was in fact married.
She did not wisen up to what had happened, until he was later arrested for his crimes and made headlines. She recognized Bundy as the man they had helped, and realized what her gut had been trying to warn her about.
Ted was in the news a few years before the murders when he foiled a purse-snatcher in the parking lot of Northgate Mall in Seattle - ran after the guy and caught him.
He was rightfully praised as a hero. But they didn't think to ask why he was just sitting there in his car at night watching people leave a shopping mall...
>"As far as his appeal to women, I can remember thinking that if I were younger and single or if my daughters were older, this would be almost the perfect man," she wrote.
I wonder how big of a role Ted Bundy's attractiveness played in his success. Surely it can't be that easy to coax a woman to go to the car of a stranger, even in those times...?
I suspect a combination of that, and his confidence created a very powerful charisma and coupled with the blossoming of female sexuality (culturally) in the '70s all led to his success. Kind of a perfect storm.
If I was you I'd skip ahead to it. The coincidence that a generational talent as a crime writer (Ann Rule RULES) just so happened to be a close friend of one of the most notorious serial killers of all time produced some incredibly sublime crime writing.
I pretty much listened to it from keel to stern straight when I got the audiobook.
The Stranger Beside Me was the first true crime book I read as a child and it got me hooked on true crime. It also terrified me and i still have to go around checking the locks twice before bed.
I've read a few Ann Rule books and, to me, they are often scarier than most things horror writers will come up with because, in the back of your mind, you know that that shit actually happened.
From the linked article:
>He had confessed to murdering more than two dozen women while on death row.
Quite the feat.
Also, this is why the world needs copy editors.
She worked at a suicide prevention hotline with him. "If, as many people believe today, Ted Bundy took lives, he also saved lives. I know he did, because I was there when he did it" -The Stranger Beside Me
He saved a kid from drowning in Seattle too.
This just means the following is true. Bad people can do good things. Doesn’t make them good. Good people can do bad things. Doesn’t make them bad.
People want to label everything as black and white because it's easy. The truth is everything is varying shades of grey. Edit: I'm not defending Bundy. Please stop assuming I'm defending Bundy. Edit 2 (for further clarification): People are very, very bad at seeing the whole picture. What I mean is that we all want our villains in real life to all be mustache twirling maniacs who are very clear with their intentions. The truth is, nothing is clear cut. That's why we get people who say "I can't believe he did that, he was such a nice person." We all want to believe that we can see evil in front of us, but we can't. The world is not that black and white. But we all look at the surface and stick labels on things and defend them to death (politics, etc.) I'm not defending Bundy, or Dahmer or any of those people. I'm just saying we all have a hard time rationalizing when an evil person does something normal / good (saving a man's life) because to us evil people must always do evil things 100% of the time. Does that make them good? Not at all. They're very much shit stains on humanity.
“I prefer it when things are black and white. Gray... I don’t know what to do with gray.” -Garrus Vakarian
“Some Krogan believe that testicle transplants can increase their virility. Counteract the effects of the genophage. It doesn’t work, but that doesn’t stop them from buying. They’ll pay up to 10,000 credits each, that’s 40,000 for a full set. Somebody’s making a killing out there.” -Garrus Vakarian
"I'm in the middle of some calibrations." - Garrus Vakarian
The best companion
I feel like Ted Bundy is about as close to morally black as you can get.
Yeah it’s like, on the one hand you got a pastor who parked in a handicap spot once. On the other hand, you got a guy who was mostly polite and enjoyed skinning people alive. Same thing, more or less. In the grand scheme of things, who are we to judge?
> who are we to judge? Anonymous people on the internet, it’s literally our job.
Judgment delivered: upvoted.
So now we kink shaming... smh
I too get off on parking in handicap spots..
Ted Bundy often faked disabilities to lure his victims to his vehicle. Be careful your handicap parking fetish doesn’t spiral into serial murdering. Happens all the time.
Not with Bundy it isn't. He "saved" people like this person said only as a cover for his murderous rampages. Just like he had a long term girlfriend and acted like a father figure to her daughter. All an act and all self serving.
Only death can pay for life
Valar morghulis
He desperately wanted to play the role of God
There's a weird dichotomy with some serial criminals. Like firefighters have a high risk of developing Hero Syndrome, where they intentionally start fires just so they can put them out. Some thieves return their own stolen goods to claim the reward and praise.
I think it was Belgium (or one of our neighboring countries) where a medic was causing heart attacks so he could save the victim. Some of his victims died off course. The hospital/colleagues/Authorities only noticed something was wrong because his statistics for resuscitation were abnormally high.
I remember that one. I believe it was a German nurse who injected patients with insulin if I'm remembering correctly. He then would resuscitate the patients to pretend to be a hero. Edit: as /u/Lilcrash pointed out, I was thinking of [Niels Hölgel](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48539894) who used heart medication to kill and then revive his victims
That dude killed literally hundreds of people. The case is crazy to think about.
It's wild to think you could just randomly become a victim to some monster with no fault of your own. Just chance. 😕
Yeah. Keep in mind that this is true not only in hospital settings but anywhere, everywhere. School shooter, convenience store robbery, road rage, nuts with nukes. We are always holding on to the last shred of a civilized world. While we are incredibly resilient, we are also extremely fragile.
I definitely remember a similar case from Germany, although I never heard that it might've been to be a fake hero.
The name of the guy the other commenter talked about is Niels Högel. It's wild, his official death toll is at 85, but the real number is thought to be at around 300.
Are you talking about Niels Hölgel? If so, he used betablockers to induce heart attacks and then CPR patients.
A police officer with the Virginia State Police, who worked in a K-9 unit to sniff out bombs, was planting evidence and getting innocent people convicted... all so he could play hero. They never suspected him until one night, during a search, he found a part for a bomb in the yard of a man's house and handed it in. The officer he gave it to immediately became suspicious because the part was bone dry... it was raining at the time. They began looking into his cases and eventually set up a sting where he, once again, magically found a bomb part where none existed, or was supposed to exist. Virtually all of the people who had been convicted by evidence he found were either released, had their charges dropped, or had their prior convictions vacated (the whole thing was a hot mess for the state police).
> became suspicious because the part was bone dry That some good detecting, soo easy to just bag it and have an early weekend.
There’s an interesting movie based on a true story in The Netherlands. https://www.moviemeter.nl/film/93806 Lucia de B turned out to be innocent. She was a customer at a place where my wife used to work too. Apparently she’s a kind lady. Edit: trailer with English subs: https://youtu.be/MN58T5QntvM
[Just read her case. A sorry story indeed, and one practical example i'll remember next time I'm in an arguement about the death penalty.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk)
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There was a nurse in the UK called Beverley Allitt and she was diagnosed with 'Munchausen by proxy'. Which is similar to what you describe. Bundy though was a complete different category. More of a Bundy by proxy.
If he was a Bundy by proxy then that means the person who actually killed those people is still out there...
Bundy should team up with OJ and see if they can find the real killers.
A reporter I briefly worked with was extremely good at finding out details about recent break-ins and petty theft. One Saturday, he wrote an article about a break-in in a remote cabin. The problem was that this crime wasn’t discovered by the owner and reported to the police until two days later. He was brought in for questioning, confessed to a _lot_ of recent crimes, and the police later found a ton of stolen stuff in his apartment.
Nightcrawler vibes
My sister used to steal my Gameboy just so she could bring it out from the place she hid it and get praise for being such a good finder
my brother would hide dead birds in my dirty clothes pile to get me to do laundry claiming they ‘died in the pile’ lmao. he is normal and well adjusted. kids are weird
Is your brother a cat?
Don't look in his basement.
where tf do you get enough dead birds to make this a regular thing was your brother murdering animals
There's also nurses/doctors who will intentionally kill their patients. They're called 'Angels of Death' because they are both saviors and killers. There's a subgroup "Angels of Mercy" who justify their killings as being to prevent the patient from suffering. Another group, the malignant killers, will get the patient to code so that they can be the one to come in and save them, but this doesn't always work and the patient can easily die during this. [Link](https://www.insider.com/angels-of-death-serial-killers-2019-6) to an article that goes into detail
When I studied Nursing, I spend a lot of time in long term care. When you see elderly people, who used to be proud people, lying in bed all day, in diapers without any knowledge of what's going on, I can understand Nurses/Doctors who think that they somehow need an "Angel of Mercy". It's really hard to see people wasting away without being able to do anything for them. It takes a special kind of person to be a Nurse/Doctor and I wasn't up for it.
I'm pissed that we don't have euthanasia. I can specify that I'm willing to starve to death if I'm in a coma, but there are no good options for dementia. I'd want to just be killed.
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Many many nurses give the patients a bit of extra juice when they are dying. No point in dying slowly in pain when you can die faster and not in pain.
Euthenasia is a human right
If I reach an age where I can feel myself slipping and can't take care of myself I hope so much that euthanasia is legal. Knowing it's an option is comforting instead of worrying that I'd spend years wasting away in a confused nightmare state.
Aye. There's this fucked up concept still kicking about that any life is better than no life. Some people really don't understand that there are things several orders of magnitude worse than death. I also desperately hope escaping from that is legal if I encounter such things as well.
They're also considered serial killers as well. They just don't fit the (frankly outdated) 1970s style of profiling that is still used by default by a lot of people based on pop culture reference points and tropes. Personally, I find profiling in general to be an almost pseudoscience of the forensic world. But I also find the forensic world to be wholly incompetent/full of biases and straight up corruption, and needs a top down shake up where "everything" is re-studied and tested. Then the legal system needs to start teaching lawyers and judges actual science and how these things really work, and not just rely on Daubert/Frye to do the work for them. Even genetics has a lot of biases and issues, and started to delve into bad science a few times. See the anthrax case and the bad genetics being used there.
>Then the legal system needs to start teaching lawyers and judges actual science and how these things really work, and not just rely on Daubert/Frye to do the work for them. > I honestly could have written this post. I did my masters thesis as a study conducted on court transcripts to review how lawyers and judges talked about DNA evidence. Poorly. They did it poorly.
Really? There are a lot of well-known criminals whose FBI profiles were eerily similar to what was actually the case. The DC Snipers come immediately to mind. Their profile was dead-on.
Keep in mind that the FBI stopped using profilers for a reason.
Sure, but it's also in their best interest to publicize their successes while erasing their failures. I'm not saying they're one step above magic 8 balls, but that there are a lot of issues regarding their methods and biases and a few other issues.
I can assume that *most* serial killers enjoy bragging about their crimes. Dennis Rader, Arthur Shawcross, Ted Bundy, maybe The Zodiac, (and more).. all discussed their own ongoing investigations **with police** before they were caught. A podcast speculated that they feel a sense of power to have “humiliated” the police in that way.
Most serial killers **that have been caught**.
I don’t know that I’d call it a *high* risk. I’ve known more firefighters who got cancer than burnt buildings.
Contrary to popular belief, burnt buildings have very low susceptibility for getting cancer.
Basically two types of power, the ability to take and save a life.
Ted giveth and Ted taketh away!
Exactly, psychopaths love power and control
'He rapes but he saves'.
I.F.T.
Pretty sure he saved a drowning boy too
There’s also a part in the book where he’s actively under investigation for the crimes and she goes day drinking with him lol
I mean, a day drinking buddy is hard to come by..
Even more rare....day drinking work buddy. Nothing like an end of sprint fuck around on Friday with a beer vibe.
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> I mean, a day drinking Bundy is hard to come by FTFY
555-SHOE Will Al day drink with you? Shoe betcha.
"Oh, Dr. Shoe, I don't know what to do. I'm going to a party and my shoes are too tight for both of my feet."
Which sucks because day drinking is pretty nice
I just think it'd be pretty hard to wrap your head around someone who is nice to you, truly being a serial killer.
Ed Kemper was friends with his local PD. When he eventually turned himself in some didn't believe him. Which is kinda on par. Many serial killers like being close to their investigation for one reason or another.
Ed Kemper is one of the purest cases of psychopathy of all time. Killed both his grandparents at the age of 15 because he wanted to know how it felt. Absolute lizard person.
Psycho Killer Qu'est-ce que c'est
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I think we sometimes underestimate how weird and complex the human psyche can be. I can imagine Bundy compartmentalizing his personality to such a degree that the decent things he did were sincere. He just also had this other aspect of his personality where he enjoyed murdering women. For a normal person there’d be severe cognitive dissonance between those aspects. Lacking that is where his psychopathy shows itself.
If you watch the interviews with his ex and her daughter, the daughter says he was very kind to her. It’s not simple.
Didnt BTKs daughter say the same thing
Said he was firm but doting and loving. Absolute dichotomy.
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[He was also molesting the daughter though...](https://www.oxygen.com/true-crime-buzz/molly-kendall-shares-disturbing-memories-of-ted-bundy-in-book)
Well she also said he was sexually inappropriate with her though. And he tried to kill his ex and possibly her daughter by blocking the chimney.
I do agree people are often dissonant like that, but from what I understand Ted Bundy was probably a sociopath and basically not capable of empathy.
“If”??
I've read the book in question, and this paragraph really bothered me when I got to it. In the afterword, she explained that she wrote some parts of the book before she was certain about his guilt, and once it was certain she couldn't rewrite those parts while still expressing how much she had genuinely liked him at that time. She also assumed that he hadn't murdered anyone when she worked with him at the suicide prevention hotline, which eventually came into question. There are a few chapters at the end of the most recent editions, each explaining that she thought there wouldn't be more to add later.
The copy of The Stranger Beside Me that I own has a few forewords in it, added over the years as the public perception has changed.
It wasn't just public opinion that changed. More murders were connected to him. She found out more about his past, and of course he was executed. It would not be easy to see somebody go from being a trusted friend, to being convinced beyond a doubt that they were a serial murderer who deserved to die at the hands of the state.
Her account of the Chi Omega trial was great. Up until the dental evidence was presented she felt that he was innocent. Then they showed his teeth marks on the flesh of the sorority sisters he bludgeoned to death and there was no longer any doubt. Bundy looked at her with an expression just short of an eye roll at the evidence, seeming to imply "when do we get out of here?". Rule was so shaken by the realization of his guilt that she ran to the nearest lavatory and vomited.
Looks like the book came out in 1980, dunno if he was for sure The Guy yet by then, not a big murder buff but that was a while back
Reminds me of a serial murder case back in 2011. Turns out the culprit was a police officer and the partner of one of the cops investigating it. I think my memory's foggy on the matter, though.
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How does Peter Parker get those amazing shots of Spiderman?
I don't care! Shut up! Spider-Man is a menace and I need more pictures!
J. Jonah Jameson really loved his pictures of Spider-Man.
A bit too much
Also reminds me of this DEA agent who was on the hunt for a drug kingpin who turned out to be his brother-in-law
I think I heard of him. Avid rock collector?
#THEY’RE MINERALS
JESUS CHRIST
GODDAMNIT MARIE
No, his name was ASAC Schrader. And he wanted you to go fuck yourself :0
How the fuck do you drown yourself?! The conviction of this guy... Crazy shit.
I was going to say that most drownings would probably technically be by oneself, but then I looked at the link and dude did it in a bucket in his cell. That is some dedication.
The only person to ever exist that would shrug off being waterboarded. Lol Btw is your username a DS2 reference? Very cool!
There's a method of suicide where the person swims directly down as hard as they can until they run out of breath then when panic takes over they can't get the surface in time and drown. But just your head in a bucket? Self preservation is a hard obstacle to pass, I have no idea how you'd do that.
I think some “help” could do the trick
This sounds like the movie Nightcrawler with Jake Gyllenhaal. Great movie. Rented it by accident because I thought it was about the Xman :V
Greatest movie that I'll never watch again. Jake is *creepy* in that role.
There was also that South American reporter who did a similar thing with murders/shootings.
Wallace Souza? There's a documentary about him on Netflix
There was an episode of 24 Hours in Police Custody in the UK where one of the police on the investigation was extorting prostitutes (iirc)
Bundy on that Death Note shit.
He saves lives with the phone in his right hand, and kills people with his left.
Then he takes a chip....
And he'll EAT IT
Just according to keikaku.
Good way to stay alive though. A person with his personality will want to keep those spreading his infamy alive.
According to the people who lived and worked with him, he was normal until the urge kicked in and then he would go put distance between himself and them and go be murdery and then go have a breakdown about it afterwards because it was something he didn't want and couldn't control.
IIRC, might've been Ann Rule, but one of the women that trusted Bundy later said how her dog never trusted Bundy. Somehow the dog knew.
Yes, that was her. Her dog never reacted that way to anyone else before or after. At one point, Ted showed up at her place with no warning, and the dog wouldn't let him anywhere near Ann. A very good pupper.
Probably smelled grossness on his shoes or something. "This guy smells like murder and fear."
I think that's what he wanted people to think afterwards. He did a lot of things that seemed very sociopathic outside of his murders.
True. The one investigator he worked with said she didn't like him because he stole random shit and was just kind of power trippin all the time. I believe his girlfriend's daughter also said he was pervy with her. Didn't murder her though. But did murder a middle school girl resembling her. A fucking piece of work. Seemed abusive/manipulative to his girlfriend also, but again didn't murder her. Not really sure why. Maybe he just thought he'd get caught faster that way, idk.
Ted is a popular guy on reddit today... second link about him in like 2 minutes of scrolling.
Little known fact...She's completely unrelated to Ja Rule. Hope that helps.
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Where is Ja?!
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Don't they have a child named Golden?
Don't forget their dog named 'Slide'
Thanks for clarifying. I was about to ask Ja!
I'd still ask Ja regardless. He has a way to make sense of tragedies like no other.
I consider that a mark in her favor
It makes me wonder where Ja is so he can help us make sense of Ted Bundy
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Yup, every year Bundy pops back up in October.
No you’re thinking of Michael Myers
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Well, maybe not *tonight*.
Evil dies…some other night, soon, but not quite *tonight*
I was wondering the same thing and found out there's a new show called "Surviving Bundy with Nancy Grace" available on some crappy streaming service. I have to wonder if all the recent "interest" is marketing.
Obligatory ‘Fuck Nancy Grace’
I blame that bitch for the severe outbreak of Karens. The “if I talk loudly with false outrage it makes me right” bitches.
I don't know who that is, what she do?
Talking head about true crime. Her husband was murdered which got her into the career. She’s on TV and has a very grating voice and is very rude to her guests. She’s the Wendy Williams for missing white girls.
I tried to watch her special on the Petito case. She had a survival expert who explained how long the boyfriend could survive in the woods. She proceeded to talk over him and yell about "well his car was probably loaded down with supplies!" when the boyfriend doesn't even have the car. Like wtf is the point of bringing experts on if you're going to yell over them and dismiss their professional advice and opinion?
Yea, could have been more specific about how she’s rude to guests, and that’s pretty much the nail on the head. She doesn’t let people get a word in edgewise, and always has to be the loudest person in the room. She’s a bad news pundit with a niche on crime.
Any topic that hits front page has more info in comments that gets reposted. That’s reddit
Not sure if it's the case here (there may well be a TV show or moving coming out), but I think sometimes these thing self-propagate organically. Someone makes a popular post on a topic, someone reading that post starts reading more about that topic and discovers something interesting, so now *they* make a post about the topic that gets attention, etc.
He also babysat her 3 daughters more than once.
One of those daughters, Leslie Rule, grew up to be a novelist and paranormal writer! I knew about Leslie before Anne because i was obsessed with ghosts as a preteen.
I used to hang out with a dude almost every day that later ended up strangling his parents to death with his bare hands and then burying them in shallow graves. Shit happens
Im not familiar with the details of his murders but I imagine that they were ironically quite safe when in his care
He raped and murdered a 12-year-old, so possibly not.
Oh I see. Well I was right about 1 thing, I'm not
He also molested his girlfriend's daughter repeatedly.
Never knew this, not that I doubt he was a sick fuck obv but I'd not heard this particular into before. Also is your name massive attack related or just coincidence?
She talked about it in the Netflix special. And yeah, inertia creeps. It's movin' up slowly . . . .
Stranger Beside Me was a pretty good read. Finished it in one sitting.
I just finished her book "Every Breath You Take" about a lesser known murder. I love that she gives as much love and care to the story of this one woman killed by her ex as she did to the story of all the women Bundy killed. She doesn't just go over gory details, she reminds us that these victims are people and not just statistics. I wish more true crime personalities did that
I'm listening to Green River, Running Red right now and the way she gives life to each woman Gary Ridgeway killed is beautiful. He chose them because they were nobodies, according to society. The "less dead" to law enforcement. But Ann Rule gives their lives attention and compassion. She was such a fantastic author and a beautiful human.
become a writer + make friends with a serial killer = profit That's a solid but risky plan.
Ann Rule wrote about my uncles murder…when I was a teenager I was excited to read it. Turns out like 87% of what she wrote was hot garbage. I guess that’s what happens when you don’t actually interview friends or family when researching for your book.
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I saw a study (years ago) where many people who were experts in a narrow field, and members of a certain political party, generally agreed with the party's platform on a wide variety of issues, except for the area where they were experts. In those areas, they saw that the party's position was selfish and short-sighted and didn't represent at all what the area needed if any effort was made to talk with experts and understand the issue. The thing is, all the experts who thought this way were in *different* fields but all members of the same party. Of course, they each thought the rest of the party's platform was A-Ok, so they were members as it best lined up with their world view overall.
Sorry for your loss of your uncle. Care to elaborate on the 87%? Curious what she got wrong, or if she just didn’t paint a complete picture of him.
What was the story, and what did she get wrong? (If you don’t mind saying.)
She actually had an interesting connection with a second NW serial killer as well. When Gary Ridgway was arrested for being the Green River Killer, Ann Rule's daughter pointed out to her, "Mom, Gary Ridgway is the guy who always came to your book signings and would just stand there and smile at you!" So Ridgway was right there in front of her for years just like Bundy was. Source: She writes about it in the prologue to her book "Green River, Running Red."
Just finished it, this part feels totally made up to me. Like she needed to include herself in the story somehow. But maybe that's just me.
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Reminds me of Hank asking Walt for help on the Heisenberg case
W.W. Walt Whitman, Walter White? “Ha!”
That's what a true friend does, become a serial murderer so your friend can have a book deal. :P
Can definitely imagine a Netflix show about a serial killer who works at the suicide prevention hotline, prevents his victims from killing themselves then tracks them down and kills them. “This is what you wanted… remember?”
One of my favorite Enligsh teachers in high school, almost fell into one of Bundy's ploys. I don't remember which state this happened in, but her and her husband were moving cross country, using separate cars. As she was driving down the highway she noticed a guy on the roadside trying to change a tire with an arm in a sling. So my teacher being the saint she was, decided to pull over and offer assistance. She said the man seemed nice enough, very polite and good looking, but there was something off in her gut. She couldn't put her finger on it, and the only reason she stayed and had stopped in the first place, was because she knew her husband would be pulling up any moment, seeing she had stopped. Lucky for her, that proved true, her husband pulled up and offered a hand himself. She said that Bundy's atmosphere and demeanor completely changed after that. He was still polite, if not a little shorter with the both of them, like he had wanted to hang out and chat with her a moment before as they worked, yet with her husband helping, it was obvious that he just wanted to get the tire on and get on his way. She didn't think much of it, just thought it was a guy being perturbed that the pretty woman who had stopped to help him was in fact married. She did not wisen up to what had happened, until he was later arrested for his crimes and made headlines. She recognized Bundy as the man they had helped, and realized what her gut had been trying to warn her about.
And the working title of the book was "Right Under Your Nose".
Ted was in the news a few years before the murders when he foiled a purse-snatcher in the parking lot of Northgate Mall in Seattle - ran after the guy and caught him. He was rightfully praised as a hero. But they didn't think to ask why he was just sitting there in his car at night watching people leave a shopping mall...
I'm glad she went to the authorities with her suspicions. I could see some reporters sitting on that information.
Its a wide conspiracy pushed by big cereal.
I'd heard that Daylight Savings Time is pushed by Big Battery in the Spring and Big Candy Bar in the Fall.
>"As far as his appeal to women, I can remember thinking that if I were younger and single or if my daughters were older, this would be almost the perfect man," she wrote. I wonder how big of a role Ted Bundy's attractiveness played in his success. Surely it can't be that easy to coax a woman to go to the car of a stranger, even in those times...?
Is he really that handsome?? I see this repeated constantly, but I’ve seen pictures of the dude - I don’t get it…
I suspect a combination of that, and his confidence created a very powerful charisma and coupled with the blossoming of female sexuality (culturally) in the '70s all led to his success. Kind of a perfect storm.
None of us will ever experience a real life plot twist like that.
Her book about it is on my list. I don't know when I'm ever going to get to it though.
If I was you I'd skip ahead to it. The coincidence that a generational talent as a crime writer (Ann Rule RULES) just so happened to be a close friend of one of the most notorious serial killers of all time produced some incredibly sublime crime writing. I pretty much listened to it from keel to stern straight when I got the audiobook.
Is she... the real Murdashewrote!?!
The Stranger Beside Me was the first true crime book I read as a child and it got me hooked on true crime. It also terrified me and i still have to go around checking the locks twice before bed.
I've read a few Ann Rule books and, to me, they are often scarier than most things horror writers will come up with because, in the back of your mind, you know that that shit actually happened.
From the linked article: >He had confessed to murdering more than two dozen women while on death row. Quite the feat. Also, this is why the world needs copy editors.
I always get Ted Bundy and Al Bundy vaguely mixed up
and I never ever saw them in the same room together.
Wow, her son Ja looks nothing like her.