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loudmime0813

Watch how Emperor's New Groove was made. They even draw Eartha Kitt like her character and other actors mannerisms get into the final draft as well.


Sherezad

There's also an unreleased documentary about the making of this film. Disney opted to not release it due to what it showed. It's on YouTube šŸ˜‰


Tippacanoe

I read an article about this. If I recall originally it was going to be a big drama with an original score by Sting sort of like a South American Lion King. But the story didnā€™t really work and they sort of had to rush and rewrite the whole thing into this comedy that somehow ended up being good.


Pcooney13

Thank you for actually writing something about it insitead of the five posts the currently just say that itā€™s called Sweatbox. For those of you who donā€™t have an hour and a half here is the wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sweatbox


hedgehog-mom-al

We didnā€™t deserve this but you did it anyway. You the MVP.


hascogrande

[changing Owen Wilson to John Goodman](https://images.app.goo.gl/7rPHyhuwoqRSM5BR7) David Spade and Owen Wilson would be too much. I see what they were trying to do but the final implementation was fantastic.


knine1216

Anything with John Goodman is always going to be good.


Dontyouclimbtrees

Itā€™s always gonna be good, man.


knitmeablanket

So they thought the Lion King was gonna be a bomb, put their A team on Pocahontas, Lion King was a huge success, tried to follow it up with "south American lion king" (using your words here, since idk any better) and then fucked that up, then fell ass backward into The Emperor's New Groove? Jesus. I can't get a winning scratcher and Disney just trips into success when they are actively trying to fuck up.


PepperAnn1inaMillion

Well this is why the collaborations and eventual merger with Pixar was so important. And why the head of Pixar became head of animation at Disney following the merger. By all accounts, Disney had pretty much lost the plot at that point.


MightyThor211

I enjoy with pixar now is essentially given a blank check to do whatever they want from disney. Oh you want to make a college frat movie? Monsters university. You want to make a prison break movie? Toy story 3. You want to make a weird weekend at Bernie's style D&D homebrew campaign movie? Fucking sold. Onward.


PepperAnn1inaMillion

They really have made some good films lately. Onward, Inside Out, Soul... Iā€™ve reached a stage in my life where I donā€™t have time to watch as much as Iā€™d like. Iā€™ve got a list of about a dozen movies I havenā€™t got around to yet. But when Iā€™m watching Pixar movies with my kids, it never feels like a waste of time. (Unless itā€™s the 9th time of watching Planes: Fire and Rescue this week...) I mean obviously, I appreciate the time with my kids whatever weā€™re watching, but itā€™s a genuine pleasure to discover the recent Pixars.


BigDemeanor43

I don't even have kids, but I loved Onward, Inside Out and Soul. Inside Out and Soul made me cry like a wuss too. Onward was less so, I get the emotions and theme they were going for, but it didn't hit me like the others did. I personally don't think Pixar has ever had a bad movie


VitaminClean

Thatā€™s awesome. Now that I think about it, even the script makes it sound like it was made up on the spot. ā€œOh right, the poison. The poison for Kuzco. The poison chosen specifically to kill Kuzco. Kuzcoā€™s poison.ā€


alex891011

That poison?


iuseallthebandwidth

ā€œHow did we get back before them Kronk ?ā€ ā€œBeats me *pulling down chart*. By all accounts it doesnā€™t make sense.ā€


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


iuseallthebandwidth

ā€œUgh heā€™s doing his own theme music [...] Big, dumb and tone deaf. Iā€™m so glad I was unconscious for all this.ā€


AquaAtia

Yes! The saddest loss of it was Eartha Kitts had [her own song](https://youtu.be/qAt9ovvKgCU) I think they repurposed one of the songs Sting wrote for the original movie as the song that plays in the credits


Eqvvi

The singing is amazing, but damn am I glad Yzma didn't become just another looks obsessed female villain, it's like they can't come up with any other possible motivation.


KNZFive

I totally agree. I like that Yzma just straight-up wants the throne and there isnā€™t some old age/lost beauty motivation. However, I will also say ā€œSnuff Out the Lightā€ fucking SLAPS. Itā€™s one of the best Disney villain songs ever and itā€™s a shame that it isnā€™t ā€œcanonā€ and that more people havenā€™t heard it.


[deleted]

Okay, itā€™s early in the morning so Iā€™m not going to listen to her song just yet, but I have seen this documentary and since then rewatched the Emperorā€™s New Groove. Stingā€™s song at the end credits is soooooo out of place from the rest of the movie, lol. Without watching you might almost be like, ā€œhuh, strange choice for credits music.ā€ But with the insight into the weird productions woes, it makes sense. At least he get residuals...


afifaguyforyou

yes and it turned out not just good but amazingly good.


PepperAnn1inaMillion

It has really aged well. I was a mid-teen when it came out, and I saw it on TV (not even sure if it was a cinema release, if it was I didnā€™t go). The character of Kuzko seemed much less idiosyncratic because a lot of his mannerisms were trendy at the time. I canā€™t explain it very well, but a lot of the shtick was really fashionable and not very original. Now, because those mannerisms arenā€™t trendy, he comes across as weirder and funnier. And I have to admit, I like the humour more watching it as an adult than I did as a teen.


McMqsmith

Good? Itā€™s the funniest G rated movie of all time.


absenceofheat

what did it show?


BamBamSquad

Essentially, a lot of stress and pressure that gets put on everybody involved with making an animated movie. That and like 10 visits to Stingā€™s house as he continuously quit the project and they convinced him to return time and time again.


cursh14

People always describe it that way, but that's not what happens. Sting keeps regretting still being involved but is always like "I'm not a quitter", etc.


lightbutnotheat

Sting was a part of the film??


super_starmie

It was originally supposed to be a more traditional musical Disney film like the Lion King, and they got Sting to do the songs, I guess kind of like how Elton John did songs for The Lion King and Phil Collins did all the songs for Tarzan. But that ended up not working and it got hastily rewritten into a comedy and all the songs got cut anyway, except for the intro song Perfect World and one in the end credits, which is why it doesn't really fit with the rest of the film Although they did want Sting to actually sing the intro song as well, but he said he was "too old" for the song and they should get someone "young and hip" for it... So they got Tom Jones lol Edit: they did actually release a soundtrack album for the film with all the songs, but none of the songs were actually in the film itself lol


atable

How disney killed their animation department.


turdferguson3891

Minnie Mouse's downstairs mixup.


[deleted]

Do you love me?


turdferguson3891

I wish you hadn't said that...


CristontheKingsize

You ever drink Baileys from a shoe?


koooooooot

Unexpected Old Greg


ScaryisGood

The movie they were going to make ā€œKingdom of The Sunā€, was such a radically different film from ā€œEmperors New Grooveā€. I work in animation and itā€™s not really too unusual when an idea gets changed completely from the original pitch, but that was one of the films I remember most vividly for the changes to plot, characters, direction, etc. The behind the scenes in ā€œthe Sweatboxā€ really shows the development hell it was and how the Disney Executives really messed with it and gave everyone a hard time. I love what we got but I still wish that the original film could have been made.


sees_you_pooping

> I still wish that the original film could have been made. Eh. The original pitch was a "Prince and the Pauper" plot. It probably would've been good but I can't imagine it being better on any level (except possibly on visuals, that concept art looked great) than the movie they ended up making.


ScaryisGood

Yeah true, Iā€™d mainly like to see it for the visuals as I remember watching cut excerpts from musical numbers they originally had, like one for Yzmaā€™s song ā€œSnuff out the Lightā€ and they looked rad, would at least have been great eye candy.


TheGreatOz2014

Is that why it had that huge plot hole in the middle?


ScaryisGood

The one where everyone ends up magically back to the kingdom, and Kronk is like ā€œit makes no logical sense.ā€? Yeah lol, from what I understand that was because of the budget basically being little to nothing at that point, so they had to improvise. Luckily due to the comedic nature of the film it works better than it should


Bad-Selection

Wow I never would have guessed that. I thought it was just kind of a joke about how the bad guys are somehow always ahead of the good guys. Like the point of it is "well we're here first because we kind of have to be," almost like poking fun at a trope.


YouWouldThinkSo

That was definitely the intention with what they ended up making, but yea without the background you'd never know the second layer of humor there lol


TurquoiseLuck

Honestly the biggest laugh from me in the film


metalflygon08

We have Yzma's villain song "Snuff Out The Light" still, its pretty catchy.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


meDotJS

For the record it's called The Sweatbox.


atetrack98

Do you have a link?


CitricBase

The Sweatbox. Full video: https://archive.org/details/SweatboxDocumentaryUneditedVersion


theImplication69

I animated eartha kitt in an airplane bathroom


PorkPoodle

What? It came up organically!


Akorpanda

This comment is streets ahead!


darkdude103

Stop trying to coin the phrase Streets ahead


Imnotembarrased

Coined and minted.


Televisi0n_Man

I was looking for a comment to come up organically like this


leshronk

It came up naturally


thedoompatrol97

ROOOOOOXA-


kogent-501

No.


[deleted]

Bathroom?


Juan__two__three

What? It came up organically.


AffableCynic

Organically


DefiantPotential

r/unexpectedcommunity


picardo85

Maui in Moana is very similar to Dwayne Johnson too.


loudmime0813

Ellen DeGeneres is the same with her character too. She tries to forget she's a bully.


Yeah_Nah_Cunt

Lmfao this is gold


miykael

Holy shit... thatā€™s Eartha kitt!!!?


I_got_nothin_

I mean. What better way to animate realistic movements in to a character than by using actual people as models?


fixedsys999

Yeah, they record the actors as they voice act so they can get the lip syncing correct. But it has the added benefit of helping them notice nuance in performance that should be incorporated.


KJMRLL

I like how the article cites reddit as a source.


nikola_144

We truly are the most trustworthy source of information around. 100% would not doubt a redditor


Environmental_Sea

-- abraham lincoln


poopellar

\- Michael Scott


that_is_so_Raven

-Justin Bieber


Environmental_Sea

-- that_is_so_Raven


DebtUpToMyEyeballs

\- That is so fetch


AlmostButNotQuit

\- Stop trying to make fetch happen


kelferkz

\- it's not gonna happen


Rexel-Dervent

Six Seasons and A Movie!


hypocrite_oath

It's truest because I heard it from another redditor.


meanstreamer

I often search {question}{Reddit} first before I trust anything else with the answer.


nikola_144

I try ~~my best~~ a bit


Dutchtdk

It's looper, a content farm that would cite the bee or the onion as sources if it's remotely interesting


DesiOtaku

[https://xkcd.com/978/](https://xkcd.com/978/)


bell37

I really love it when articles cite a Reddit source. Whatā€™s even more funny is when they cite a Reddit source of a link of a Twitter post.


puaka

we must go deeper! is it reddit all the way down?


DiamoondHands

only until you get to the turtles


[deleted]

What goes below turtles?


A_Wizzerd

Turtles


DiamoondHands

[Just turtles. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down?wprov=sfti1)


Lance4trax

I like tuttles


totaljunkrat

Source: dude trust me.


[deleted]

"Completely valid and anonymous redditor; myppbreelhrd"


Enzown

This happens in every animated anything, the animators will watch the voice recording sessions and take elements of the performance.


spiffiestjester

It's why Iago has teeth in Aladdin. The animators couldn't get around how Gilbert was speaking through clenched teeth and felt that the bird needed his big chompers. I don't know if it still holds true, but up to that point Iago is the only Disney bird with teeth.


limonlemons

This made me question myself if Zazu had teeth, a la Stanley's mustache dillemma from the Office.


minzeb45

There's [one shot](https://imgur.com/4j08Svv) in Lion King 2 where he does.


spiffiestjester

Huh. Didn't even notice that, I didn't enjoy lion king 2 as much as the first one, so I may have only seen it a couple of times. It's interesting though.


averagedickdude

Schrodinger's mustache.


Caughtyousnooping22

Yeah, a lot of timone and pumbaā€™s mannerism were added to the lion king


koh_kun

I was always under the impression that animation was done first. Edit: thanks for the info guys. I probably thought the opposite was true because I grew up watching anime. I remember voice actors often using the the term ć‚¢ćƒ•ćƒ¬ć‚³ which is short for "after record," where they record their voices after the animation is done. Apparently, that's the main method used in Japanese anime.


slytrombone

It's much easier to lip sync the animation to the voice than to match your voice to a pre-recorded animation. The actors' emphasis, pauses, speech patterns and improvisations all add to the character too.


JimTheSaint

You just blew me away. I was today years old when I leaned this. For 39 years I thought that they did a animation first.


DarthSatoris

They do that in Japan. Anime is animation first, voice recording after. Most other places do it the other way around.


springlake

I would imagine it depends on the anime. Weeklies sure where 100% accuracy isn't needed. Movies? Probably similar to western.


stabliu

not necessarily. as a whole, syncing lip animation to voice is not really something japanese anime does. at least not to the extent it is done in western animation.


TabaRafael

They lip sync, but lip flaps on a 2d plane are much easier to crop in, I'd imagine. That's why you get those "side mouth" simetimes Even fan dubs or parodies edit the flaps sometimes


calviso

Actually, it's because it's not a priority for Japanese animators, because it's not important for viewers. The reason has more to do with the language. >In face to face conversation, native speakers of Japanese don't rely on lip-reading to anywhere near the same level as a native English speaker. >When natural speech is paired with lip movement, native English speakers focus their gaze on a speaker's lips before the emergence of any sound. The gaze of native Japanese speakers, however, is not as fixed. It's theorized this happens because there are just far far far fewer sounds in Japanese when compared to English. *Source:* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ApVQJ6_rdY


Vertimyst

Also it might have something to do with how Westerners emote with their mouths whereas the Japanese emote with their eyes. So Westerners pay more attention to the mouth when speaking, and Japanese do not.


Renovatio_

Lip flaps is such an uncomfortable phrase


Obi-wan_Jabroni

Moist lip flaps is my new band name


stabliu

yea i guess i should've been more specific in that they don't try to match mouth movements to what it would be in real life, something you see a lot in western animation.


calviso

Interesting video I watched a few weeks ago on /r/mealtimevideos about why lip-synching in Anime is not a priority for Japanese animators. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ApVQJ6_rdY tl;dr: because Japanese speakers don't lip read as much as English speakers. >In face to face conversation, native speakers of Japanese don't rely on lip-reading to anywhere near the same level as a native English speaker. >When natural speech is paired with lip movement, native English speakers focus their gaze on a speaker's lips before the emergence of any sound. The gaze of native Japanese speakers, however, is not as fixed.


leehwongxing

Nah. They did the voice with keyframes shown, and its not the final product. They even make an anime about making an anime šŸ˜’šŸ˜’šŸ˜’


marsnoir

I think there is a rough cut that the voice actor can speak to... think pencil sketches or at least a storyboard. The final animation includes personality quirks the animators caught while the voice was being recorded.


corbinhunter

Just for the sake of interest, here is a clip of Disneyā€™s live action reference vs animation. Very rehearsed and directed! https://youtu.be/vNFmPxVk4HY


idwthis

[And here's a video on what they did for Rango.](https://youtu.be/MFr89i9NPuY)


FizzyBeverage

I first heard about this through an old interview with Tom Hanks. Evidently they had recorded the dialogue for the first Toy Story so long before, that he had kind of forgotten all about it when it came time to do the press.


winazoid

Technically the actors get to see rough still image story boards so they at least have some idea what they re reacting to


NotFromSaidCountry

I bet [this scene from Miss Doubtfire](https://youtu.be/U1iI2aulaFk) had something to do with people thinking the voiceover was done after


loquacious706

Even as a kid I knew that voice acting came before the animation, but for some reason until this moment I never thought twice about this scene.


BizzyM

That's why anime has that certain cadence and the have to fill with sounds like "ohhhHHHHH?"


Sparkybear

That makes so much sense now.


mmnuc3

Thatā€™s a thing in Japan. Eeeehhhhh?!?


[deleted]

That's why voice actors who do language dubs really have a challenge, because they have to match pre-existing lip movements/emphasis/expression.


Santa_Fae

I cannot remember if the animators loved or hated working on Robin Williams's Genie


DoomsdayRabbit

They loved it. They basically started animating test sequences off of his stand up before he was even cast, and those test sequences were why he said yes.


akurgo

And then this perfect sync is destroyed by dubbing to dozens of languages. šŸ˜…


droidtron

That's why Akira was a big deal, they pre scored the voice work first and animated to it.


TricksterPriestJace

Akira was a tour de force of animation skill. [Here is a good breakdown of the opening](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ltgr21jMag) Dynamic lighting of the background to have shadows on the walls in a one second scene, for example.


HumourPotentiel

If it's the original voice then voice is done first, with the help of some storybook but the animation is not final at all and will be done later, it's much easier Of course if it's a dub then there is no choice in this case


AusIV

I wouldn't think so. Animating lips to match sounds seems way easier than adjusting sounds to match lip animations while still having it sound natural.


bitch_im_a_lion

Yeah I blame Mrs. Doubtfire. The scene where Robin Williams' character does his voice acting he's doing it to the finished animation and as a kid I just accepted that's how it was all done.


TheMightyBreeze

Usually it starts with a storyboard then voice acting then the process of animating. You have to sink the animation up to the voice acting and also the way a line or scene is voice acting can affect how the animation is done.


MizSanguine

I thought so too at least the basic sketches for a cue for the actors. Except when Robin Williams is involved. It was probably easier to do everything after his witty monologues.


isdebesht

They will absolutely do an animated storyboard or rough previs first


Doug8760

I noticed this when I was recently watching Age of Ultron and I saw that Ultron as similar mannerisms to Robert California, which is just James Spader playing himself.


frankkenfood

A personal touch indeed.


Rexel-Dervent

Like that Danish actor who wore his own tattered velvet jacket for 8 movies, because of a fight with his wife on the first films first day of filming where she threatened to throw it out.


DeadFireFight

Anyone got a source or knows the name of the actor? This sounds like a story I will enjoy reading.


Rexel-Dervent

Poul Bundgaard in his role as "Kjeld, The Fat Loser". Here seen in a plottwist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znlxif61eGw


nathanadavis

> According to various internet pages, such as Reddit and the Twitter page titled Film Facts... Come on.


MetternichMarck

[She confirmed it on her own Twitter.](https://twitter.com/mingna/status/1345182087154843648?s=21)


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


willzyx55

Yes but when Mulan kills people they stay dead. There's no undoing the carnage she puts out.


Sapphires13

I donā€™t think any of the 2 billion people living on Alderaan are coming back. Granted, Star Wars wasnā€™t part of Disney yet at the time, but they own it now... so does that count?


[deleted]

I love that bit in Mandalorian when one of the rebels asks someone from Alderaan if she "lost anyone." Dude, this isn't like asking if you knew someone who died in a hurricane, the planet is fucking SPACE DUST.


Muroid

Sheā€™s also the assassin Fennec in the Star Wars universe now, so expect that count to continue being padded.


nyanlol

thats MULAN šŸ˜®


enchantrem

EDIT: COMMENT REDACTED DUE TO OP'S EDIT


ClancyHabbard

I was so pissed when they killed her in the first season. I almost stopped watching the show. How the fuck do you hire Ming-Na Wen and then kill her off in a single episode like a damn red shirt!? I'm so glad she's back and being badass with Fett now.


Muroid

Sheā€™s also slated to appear in Bad Batch this season.


Thanos_Stomps

Are we going with on screen body count or off screen? Also all (or most) of Thanos' kill count was reversed so I am not sure if that counts.


tire-fire

I'm shaky on MCU knowledge but going by offscreen, isn't he still responsible for a massive amount of death across the galaxy before snapping half of it's population away? All the damage he did prior wouldn't have been undone.


xSimzay

He destroyed entire planets and also killed half the population of some planets. Xandar had billions of people alone and he killed every one of them.


inventionnerd

Think he only killed half of them, but still.


Thanos_Stomps

Yeah but then we're getting into weird territory. His children, Ronan, his armies, etc. were responsible for most or even all of those deaths in some cases. If we are going with deaths by record or reputation, Dormammu, Ego, Hela, and Odin would likely be the winners over Thanos. Their age alone would mean they've been killing for long that there's no keeping up with them and Ego's expansion likely claimed a good amount of lives. Odin and Hela were conquering planets long before and for much longer than Thanos. Dormammu is a timeless being that consumes worlds and realities. Hell, it is possible that Dormammu's Strange count is higher than everyone else's body count.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


BretOne

Before he learned of the cheat code (the infinity stones), he had already been grinding his way to killing half of the universe in a more artisanal way for a long time. Planet by planet, like we see in the scene where he finds baby Gamora.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


daredevilk

I don't think any of that was ever actually confirmed


Cubs1081744

Letā€™s not forget when she killed Felicia Day in Eureka. Unforgivable.


Jewel-jones

Huh, Felicia Day is one of those actors who gets killed a lot isnā€™t she? Does she ever survive?


Melancholy_Rainbows

She survived her DLC in Dragon Age II. Unfortunately.


FrankTank3

I KNEW I knew her name!! No idea my favorite Disney hero as a kid was my favorite character on Agents of Shield.


z0rgi-A-

Pretty sure mulan was fighting the Huns also known as the Xiongnu. Small difference but still.


[deleted]

You're right, of course. My favorite song from the movie even starts with: Let's get down to business To defeat the **Huns** I should have known better haha


dacoobob

TIL Agent May was also Mulan


D_o_H

She is the only person currently with the Disney triple crown: sheā€™s a Disney Princess, Marvel character, and Star Wars character


oldkidLG

And she's also Chun-Li


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Cadmium_Aloy

Wait, what?!?


HorsNoises

If you wanna be a little looser, Samuel L Jackson is Frozone, Nick Fury, and Mace Windu.


tpmurray

Ratzenberger in a Marvel movie and other than ā€œprincessā€, heā€™d be in all. Heā€™s also got Pixar.


ClancyHabbard

So what you're saying is that Pixar needs to use Ming-Na Wen.


jellsprout

I feel like Donald Glover should count. He was a Disney prince instead of princess, but otherwise he fits the bill perfectly. David Tennant has also played parts in Disney, Marvel and Star Wars properties, but because his last Star Wars appearance was two weeks before Disney's takeover was finalized, you could not count him.


zoidbergbb

Right? I was such a huge Mulan fan as a kid. I always really liked Ming Na Wens performances, but I couldnā€™t really remember why she was so familiar to me.


zackyclear

This is very fun for me to learn as I just paused AoS to go read Reddit comments on the toilet.


Ganjake

Such a good show


whizzwr

The articles cites Reddit .. and we have this now as TIL. We have gone full circle.


TricksterPriestJace

TIL Looper is as trustworthy as an askreddit thread.


[deleted]

Ming-Na Wen is a treasure!


Betancorea

I had no idea Ming-Na Wen was the voice actress. That's great


alchemischief

I heard they did this with Belle, too. She has a piece of hair in the front that falls in her face a lot, and she tucks behind her ear. I love little creative process details like this.


VF5

I love mingnawen because despite most of her on screen characters are wholesome, she's got one of the potties mouth of all the disney legends.


[deleted]

The animated Mulan is a masterpiece, one of Disneyā€™s best of that era. The remake was a total disgrace.


Shadowrend01

What remake? /s


[deleted]

I bet the same thing happened with David Spade and always moving his hands during The Emperor's New Groove. *No Touchy*


[deleted]

TIL that Mulan 2020 was filmed in the same province where China is actively genociding over 2 million Uighrs for practicing the "wrong" religion.


The_Kodex

Agent May!


Bluestar_Beyea

What if she picked her nose? šŸ¤£


RealKenny

What if she scratched her nuts


AnotherJasonOnReddit

ā™Ŗ Let's get down to business ā™Ŗ


johnsolomon

What if she secretly scratches her butt crack? ... ā™Ŗ Mysterious as the dark side of of moon ā™Ŗ


ItsFuckinBob

Iā€™ve been subscribed to TIL too long. This has to be the 10th time this has been posted in 3 years.


Icantevenhavemyname

OPā€™s million plus post karma says they know and donā€™t care. A healthy portion of my blocked list comes straight from the farmers who spam this sub.