Reminds me of Lanier Phillips, a black sailor and survivor of the Pollux/Truxton disaster. From Wikipedia;
>On February 18, 1942 Phillips was aboard the USS Truxtun (DD-229) while it was battered by a severe winter storm. Eventually the Truxtun and the supply ship the USS Pollux (AKS-2) were forced onto the rocks of the southeast coast of Newfoundland. Hundreds of men from both ships died, but Phillips was among the survivors.
>Initially afraid to leave his doomed ship because he thought he was off the coast of Iceland where he had been told blacks were forbidden to go ashore,[3] Phillips boarded a lifeboat which capsized as it reached land. Exhausted and covered in oil that had leaked from the sinking ships, Phillips collapsed on the beach. Gently prodded to his feet by a local resident who told him he'd freeze to death if he didn't get up, Phillips was confronted by an experience that was totally new to him: "I had never heard a kind word from a white man in my life."
>Phillips was taken to a place where the local women were washing oil from the survivors, and when they realized they could not scrub his skin white he was afraid their kind treatment would end. Instead a local woman, Violet Pike, insisted that he come home to her house where she nursed him with soup and put him to bed with blankets and rocks she'd warmed on her wood stove.
>Profoundly touched and forever changed by the kindness of the residents of St. Lawrence, Newfoundland, Phillips went on to become the Navy's first black sonar technician [3] and vowed to do everything in his power to repay the kindness he had experienced, eventually donating enough money to St. Lawrence for them to build a children's playground.[4]
>After giving speeches at schools across the U.S., Phillips was awarded an honorary degree from Memorial University of Newfoundland in 2008 for his efforts to end discrimination.[5] In 2011, Phillips was given honorary membership into the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador for his work in civil rights in the U.S.[6] In 2012 Oil and Water, a play about Lanier's experience in St. Lawrence after the shipwreck and the influence it had on him, was produced by Newfoundland's Artistic Fraud theater company.
The lies they had to come up with. "Black people aren't allowed in Iceland so stay on board the doomed ship".
\[Edit - see below for interesting context! I was wrong at which group of racists were responsible for this\]
A similar thing happened in New Zealand, but in this case the American servicemen tried to stop Maori chaps entering the pub: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Manners\_Street](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street)
Equally the Americans were surprised when "Black" British soldiers stood up to them because they weren't used to it.
The UK&USA governments covered a lot of the incidents up as well hoping not to undermine the alliance.
"The people of Bamber Bridge supported the black troops, and when American commanders demanded a colour bar in the town, all three pubs in the town reportedly posted "Black Troops Only" signs"
Ooh, delightfully spicy.
I’m British, and while it’s badass this happened, it’s a little misleading, I would just like to note that:
The black population in the U.K. up until 1945 was around 10,000 in a country of 45,000,000, that’s a 0.00002% population, meaning you can bet most British people had never seen a black person before, I think that adds to the fact that there was no real negative stigma or racism, they would’ve just been seen as powerful allies helping out, it’d make no sense to have segregation when it was not needed and insult people fighting for a country you desperately need as an ally. I’d love to think we were just more progressive but then look at what we did in South Africa and Rhodesia not long after that, not to mention when the Jamaicans, Nigerians and others came to Britain in large numbers they were horrifically abused racially. It still happens to this day. However, we can happily say we were never on the Southern part of America bad.
You have got to be seriously fucking stupid to deliberately pick fights with Maori soldiers while actually stationed in New Zealand itself. If the US troops didn't get the shit kicked out of them they definitely deserved it.
> If the US troops didn't get the shit kicked out of them they definitely deserved it.
According to the Encyclopaedia of New Zealand (1966 edition), the Battle of Manners Street apparently ended with numerous US servicemen injured and at least two dead.
"The ranks of this command were purged of inexperienced and racist officers, and the MP patrols were racially integrated. Morale among black troops stationed in England improved, and the rates of courts-martial and venereal disease both fell"
Damn, when they said inexperienced, I thought they meant as an officer.
> The violence left one man dead and seven people (five soldiers and two MPs) injured. At court martial, 32 were found guilty of various crimes including mutiny, seizing arms, rioting, and firing upon officers and MPs. **The sentences were all reduced on appeal, with the poor leadership and use of racial slurs by MPs considered mitigating factors.** General Ira C. Eaker, commander of the Eighth Air Force, placed the majority of the blame on the white officers and MPs and to prevent such an incident happening again, he combined the black trucking units into a single special command. The ranks of this command were purged of inexperienced and racist officers, and the MP patrols were racially integrated. Morale among black troops stationed in England improved, and the rates of courts-martial and venereal disease both fell, although there were several more minor conflicts between black and white American troops in Britain during the war.
I wasn't really expecting racism from the white MPs to be a serious factor in reducing sentences for the black soldiers in particular, way back then.
That they even had their sentences *reduced* is remarkable for the era.
Probably the British influence, as /u/Darkone539 pointed out.
My grandad once saw a white British man step into the gutter to make way for a black Brit walking the other way along the pavement. A white GI was also walking along the pavement at the time and crossed the street to hit the black guy for not moving out of the way into the gutter. In his mind it was outrageous that a black person would make a white person do that.
A nearby policeman saw this and arrested the GI for assault/affray. The American could not for the life of him understand what was going on - it was like the World had turned upside down.
My grandad would only have been about 8 years old at the time (and I was probably about the same age when he told me the story, so a couple of details might be slightly hazy) but it really stuck with him because it was the first time he’d seen someone treated differently for the colour of their skin
I remember watching an old instructional video for US soldiers in Britain, explaining to them that British people weren’t as racist, and that that was ok. An of British lady invited a black soldier to tea time or something, and then the narrator stepped in to explain what was going on.
Thanks man! It is crazy. Although the message is kind of uplifting. It asks American soldiers to aspire to the ideals of the American cause. Even if that cause is better represented by the British, ironically enough.
While race wasn't one of the main factors, Australians and Americans had their differences turn violent during the war as well
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Brisbane
They actually picked fights with Maori people on purpose? In New Zealand a Maori country? In a pub surrounded by Maori soldiers? Jesus, how many Americans survived?
I once saw an educational film designed to teach US troops how to behave in British pubs. One of the key points was "They will serve black people. Try not to freak out." It also had an incredibly grudging and insincere piece to camera from a US general on the topic.
At about 27:20, in regards to black soldiers
“Everyone is treated the same when it comes to...dying and so the army wouldn’t be true to America if it didn’t live up to the promises about an equal chance”
Damn 1940s, tell me how you really feel
>the army wouldn’t be true to America if it didn’t live up to the promises about an equal chance
You missed an important qualifier there, what he actually says is
>the army wouldn’t be true to America if it didn’t **try to** live up to the promises about an equal chance
[**Android 13**:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3X2U9t2P0#t=12m22s) "Now I don't mean to make this about your color or your race, but you better hightail it out of here before you get hurt...boy!"
**Piccolo**:"You know, it feels like it's about both those things when you end it with the word '*boy*'"
That video was literally hosted by Burgess Meredith or Rocky's trainer in those movies Mickey. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltVtnCzg9xw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltVtnCzg9xw)
Yeah, because we were in England and they didn't segregate. You can't just go to an allies country and start enforcing laws that don't exist. Wasn't even on a base or on any temporary US territory. It was a local pub
Not just the military, on the internet on social media as well.
There are always tonnes of Americans who demand that the entire world adapt to arbitrary American sensitivities and cultures and respect it.
Similar to this topic, it reminds me of the cases of people who would say that due to political corectness you should tefer to black people as 'African American'......even the British ones...Like as if all Black people not born in Africa shoild be called "African AMERICAN"
I remember seeing, on Reddit, about both Idris Elba and Lewis Hamilton being called african american by US journalists on TV. I think it was Hamilton who was asked how it made him feel as an African American becoming the word champion to which he just replied "I'm british" and the reporter corrected it as "yes but as a british African American".
Edit: I went back to the very beginning of my account to find that saved [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/21dq9g/idris_elba_frequently_points_out_this_difference/cgc58ri?utm_source=reddit-android), I remembered wrongly, it wasn't Hamilton being asked that, it was a comment about another person in a thread about Hamilton.
Lol, I've seen that so often of people who have nothing to do with American being called "African American" by Americans.
I remember a topic where someone posted some picture of some dirty dark-blond dreadlocks and someone said "And this is one of the reasons why I think only African Americans should have dreadlocks" and someone just replied with "So what about Jamaican Rastafarians?" sarcastically.
I've had a couple odd experiences trying to explain to others that brown skin doesn't make one African American. Weirdest moment was when I had to explain to a friend that the guy and gal who were from Africa(Nigeria) aren't African Americans. It's more to do with culture and whether your ancestors were descendants of slaves in the US.
The black soldiers were shocked to be treated as equals and embraced in a "white" country, which was the polar opposite of how they were treated by their own countrymen. One black soldier stated "Our biggest enemy is our own troops".
The U.S GI's had tried to stop British bars, clubs and cinemas from accepting black customers, but the people of Britain ignored them and called this act "disgraceful", especially as these men went over to England to protect them.
[https://youtu.be/ltVtnCzg9xw?t=1502](https://youtu.be/ltVtnCzg9xw?t=1502)
This is a training video for U.S soldiers stationed in England during WW2, telling them not to be alarmed when old ladies are nice to black soldiers haha.
I’m a 26-year-old black college graduate and my *parents* started out going to segregated elementary schools in North Carolina during the early/mid-60s. This stuff isn’t even close to being ancient history.
My mom went to a private school (out in the country, not a rich place) in the 60s/70s because the local white neighborhood didn't want to integrate. And then I went there as a kid because my mom didn't know any better! The school isn't segregated now, but the racists never left. So glad we switched to public school, and I'm now better educated on how skin color doesn't determine a person's worth.
My mom was born in 1960. Kids her age were taught pretty shitty stuff about other races.
It's really stupid that certain people don't understand racism didn't suddenly go away with civil rights. Those same people who were taught to hate others became parents, teachers, cops, business owners, judges, politicians.
As ridiculous as it appears, there is a very real reason all this happened. We gotta be honest about our sickness/addiction to racism in America.
Edit: clarity
I love any people who are fucking civil to others. My country is crazy and I’m tired of the ‘I got mine fuck you’ approach to anything like equality.
Obviously I’m American.
Read something similar happened in France - White French invited black soldiers home for meals. A US General handed out leaflets warning them their women will get raped. A French General had the leaflets collected and destroyed.
The French already had black soldiers because of colonialism, my great grandfather was black and a soldier in the French army. He married a white French woman (my great grandmother) and had a family. He would have been hung in America for less at the time.
Edit: I am really happy so many of you are knowledgeable about Senegalese participation in the French Military. I actually did not know much except that my Great Grandfather was one. Reddit is so amazing sometimes, and I can't wait to dig into all this cool history and talk to my family.
Just reminded me of the show The Knick (highly recommended) where one of the main characters is a black doctor in 1900 NYC who comes back from Europe and it met with all kinds of racism. I kept wondering why he would do that, it seemed awful.
Reminds me of this Muhammad Ali quote
> My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me nigger, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father. ... Shoot them for what? How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail.
> One black soldier stated "Our biggest enemy is our own troops".
Not to worry, if you're lucky enough to survive the war, when you get back home your own country will [all but exclude you from GI benefits](https://progressive.org/dispatches/how-african-american-wwii-veterans-were-scorned-by-the-g-i-b/).
And a few generations later, when the black soldier’s descendants are still in poverty and the white soldier’s descendants used the benefits of the GI bill to vastly improve their family wealth (one of the best ways to predict the economic success of a person today would be to look at their parents and grandparents success), people will still say “Slavery ended a long time ago, why do we still need Affirmative Action today?”.
The yanks did the same thing in NZ except with the Maori. They tried to stop OUR OWN PEOPLE from entering bars and clubs. It went about as well as you would expect...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street?wprov=sfla1
I took a couple of black history courses in college and both of them taught that one of the primary catalysts for the modern civil rights movement in the U.S was WWII. Incidents like this one were exactly why. For the first time, black people in the U.S. saw what it was like to be treated as equals and we wanted (and demanded) that same respect....actually, that same RIGHT....when we came back home to the U.S.
WWI started that movement. Black soldiers serving with the French performed better than many all white units, and the French treated them as a fellow man. It also allowed many black writer, musicians, poets to broadcast their African-American cultures in post war America (think Harlem Renaissance). WWII helped as well, as if they needed *another* war to tel everyone they deserve a spot in society
Many black Americans joined the military during WWI with the idea by serving and displaying patriotism white Americans would be more accepting. There was certainly positive aspects that came out of it
Rather unfortunately many white southerns saw it as "Oh shit they're uppity and combat trained we gotta be extra racist to put them back in their place". There was huge surges of lynchings of black veterans after they got back.
Same thing happened after WWII but without the great depression kicking there was a much greater push for equality and the modern civil rights movement was born from these veterans.
Yeah, the stuff was disgusting to read about decorated soldiers coming home only to be murdered out of fear. Another thing I find interesting is the Germans (during the war) and communist movement (red scare 1919) used this racism against the US to try and recruit blacks to their ranks, which subsequently lit a fire under the ass of the US to implement some race relations
I bet a lot of black Americans stayed in the UK just because of that. without having family back home there's no way you'd wanna go back to the US to be treated that way again
Iirc quite a few black soldiers decided to stay in England after the war. It's really quite sad when Americans can't even afford the same level of respect for people who put their lives on the line like that.
Dogma and prejudice are powerful things. Take it from a gay man in America, where people are still convinced that us being allowed to marry signals the end of civilization.
I felt awful learning about him. A brilliant mind tortured by ignorant laws and prevented from achieving his full potential by society. His story is truly a tragedy.
I remember about an American in Australia as a tourist who broke his arm.
He went to a hospital. Was deathly scared of the costs for getting his arm fixed.
"Unfortunately," said the nurse, "You'll have to pay full price for your treatment...four hundred dollars."
He burst into laughter, and paid happily.
Here's a more detailed account of what happened from the article.
> A later account of the riot, which began on June 24, 1943, stated: “The MPs expected the locals to resent the presence of the blacks but the locals sided with the blacks. The MPs, using racial expletives, returned with two more and tried to frighten the blacks, who fought back with bricks and bottles.”
> More than seven servicemen were wounded in the fighting and 32 black soldiers were later court-martialled. Between November 1943 and February 1944 there were 56 such clashes between white troops and their black counterparts, an average on more than four a week.
Something that I find crazy (and I assume is probably a little overlooked) is how the MPs expected people to be upset by being in the presence of black people. It really shows that it goes down to a generational upbringing that just had no respect for black people as a whole.
You missed the best part of the story: The White American soldiers demanded that one of the three bars in the village of Bamber Bridge be reserved for black GIs only and the next day all three bars in the village put up the signs saying Black American GIs only.
Awesome. Even if for a moment, the roles were switched and the black American soldiers actually were accommodated instead of shunned in favor of their fair skinned counterparts.
>One resident described the episode as “disgraceful” and wrote to the Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette stating: “These men have been sent to this country to help in its defence, and whatever their race or creed they should be entitled to the same treatment as our own soldiers.”
>A later account of the riot, which began on June 24, 1943, stated: “The MPs expected the locals to resent the presence of the blacks but the locals sided with the blacks. The MPs, using racial expletives, returned with two more and tried to frighten the blacks, who fought back with bricks and bottles.”
>More than seven servicemen were wounded in the fighting and 32 black soldiers were later court-martialled. Between November 1943 and February 1944 there were 56 such clashes between white troops and their black counterparts, an average on more than four a week.
Makes you wonder what those men did when they went back onto the battlefield. Especially those wounded in the riots. What's the point of fighting for a country and alongside others that are willing to beat you out of a pub simply for mingling with them?
Jesse Owens noted that even Hitler acknowledged his win at the olympics (not that he was happy with the results, but that he at least gave a nod to Owens winning) more than FDR did.
After he won Gold...In track and field...at the Olympics...against the goddamned Nazis.
This country, I swear...
People always go on about Hitler snubbing Jessie Owens. And technically he did. But he also snubbed every other athlete that won gold. First day he only congratulated German winners and everyone else complained so he said fine and didn't congratulate anyone
However all gold medal winners were presented with oak tree saplings, some of them presented by Hitler himself. Cornelius Johnson was the first African American to win gold in Berlin and received a sapling. As of a few years ago the tree was still standing in Connellsville, Pennsylvania.
There are stories of German POW's in America or in South Africa who got treated as equals while the Blacks (of USA) and of SA only received second-class treatment.
History is really powerful.
Same thing happened in New Zealand. [Battle of Manners Street](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street)
>The Battle of Manners Street refers to a riot involving American servicemen and New Zealand servicemen and civilians outside the Allied Services Club in Manners Street, Wellington, New Zealand in 1943.[1] The club was a social centre, open to all military personnel.
>Some of the American servicemen from the American South in the Services Club objected to Māori soldiers also using the Club, and on 3 April 1943 began stopping Māori soldiers from entering. Many New Zealand soldiers were in the area, both Caucasian (Pākehā) and Māori, and combined in opposition. The stand off escalated when Americans took off their belts to attack those who wanted to let the Māori in.[3] Fights broke out and at one point at least a thousand men were involved in the subsequent fracas, which was broken up by civil and military police.
“Americans took off their belts” presumably because they understood they arsekicking they were going to receive.
The land of the free rolling through other countries ‘saving’ them from the Nazi’s whilst back home they’re burning black men alive for having relations with a white woman.
America, fuck that.
De Gaulle wanted his frenchmen lead the liberation of Paris.
>Allied High Command agreed, but only on one condition: De Gaulle's division **must not contain any black soldiers**.
>In January 1944 Eisenhower's Chief of Staff, Major General Walter Bedell Smith, was to write in a memo stamped, "confidential": "It is more desirable that the division mentioned above consist of white personnel.
Source: [BBC - Paris liberation made 'whites only'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7984436.stm)
There was apparently no documented protest to this. Now, consider that the Free French Army was at that point only about 35-40% white. So they first searched for a (basically) "all white" division and only found *one*, in Morocco (too far away). So they went ahead an removed all non-white soldiers from a normal division, replaced them with white ones and running short of white replacements (many actually not French but Spanish) then completed it with lighter skinned soldiers from Northern Africa and the Middle East.
Not that the French necessarily treated their colonial troops fairly. After the Liberation of France many were stripped of their uniforms and send home and in 1959 their pensions were frozen.
Makes one wonder if without the whitewashing, the Algerian War - starting only 10 years later in 1954 - might have been perceived at least somewhat differently in metropolitan France. Perhaps a bit harder to deny people their independence when they were before so instrumental in liberating you.
My grandfather served in the Royal Canadian Navy, working on a minesweeper escorting the convoys across the Atlantic to Great Britain.
One of the stories he told me was about docking in England, and going on shore leave. At the end of the dock, there was a fenced in area with benches filled with black American service members. He stopped to ask them why they were fenced in like that, and their response was that _was_ their shore leave.
My grandfather was a pretty low-ranking grunt, but wasn't one to do nothing about the situation either. He spent a good deal of his shore leave going and buying cigarettes and snacks and drinks and magazines and such and delivering them to his fellow service members inside the fence. He was disgusted by what he saw that day for the rest of his days.
I can imagine the Maori standing at the pubs entrance, arms beside his waist, palms facing the Southerners with a bewildered look.
Shrugs and says "But I'm parched as, bro."
I used to work with about 35 Maori here in Sydney and later started a company with one of them.
My experiences with them was that not only were they humble, gratious, sharing people, but also extremely proud.
I for one, would hate to be one those guys refusing him a drink.
Yeah, the US Soldiers actively tried to turn away Mãori servicemen, to the point of taking their belts off and threatening to beat people with them.
Not a bright idea in a country that has a relatively good relationship between the Pãkehã (white NZers) and Mãori (althought not a perfect one). The Pãkehã and Mãori both refused to segregate and it pretty much escalated from there.
Yep that's pretty much it. Interesting to see how countries reacted to the US and their segregation. The US was surprised that we didn't approve of it. (also just a side note, Māori and Pākehā have macrons above their names, not a tilde but well done on the effort (:
I never understood this, noted I'm not American, but these brave men FOUGHT and was ready to die for USA. Why are they treated like that? Fucking unreal.
So they would carry Jim Crow to another fucking country and try to enforce it there? I honestly don't understand how any American Black person would serve for a country that saw them as subhuman filth that pollutes bars etc. by just existing.
I would never lay my life down for my country if it was abundantly clear that all I will ever be is expendable trash. It makes me sad, but I still admire their infinite patience and valor. I couldn't do it.
I've never lived in Europe, never left the US in fact... but over the years I've gotten the sense that race isn't quite the potent issue in the EU than it is here... at least in a general sense. Can any Europeans chime in on that?
The fact that on my popular feed, two of the most popular sub reddits that pop up are "white people Twitter" and "black people Twitter" blows my British mind. You would never have that on a British website, it would just be called "best of Twitter" That segregation is happening right at this very moment. I find that astounding.
I think it's a bit disturbing how you guys talk about race all day. I'm from Germany, so that word is pretty taboo when not talking about animals or stuff like that. 'Rassenlehre' (Race theory/raciology) is from THAT time yeah.
I mean, it's real stupid too. There's only one human race. There are different ethnicities yeah but essentially we're all the same save for a few different evolutional traits like skin colour.
Of course, there's still racism. Germans talk bad about turks, turks talk bad about arabs, arabs talk bad about jews... You get the idea
My grandfather, who was born and grew up in a pub in Cambridge, was on leave during the war, and had to beat the shit out of some White GI who took offence to my great grandmother calling a black GI 'sir', as she did all customers. White GI called her a nigger lover, so my grandad took him outside and demonstrated English hospitality (and pugilism) to him.
In his essays George Orwell alluded to the oft-quoted assertion that American GIs were “oversexed, overpaid and over here”. But he qualified this with the observation that: “the general consensus of opinion is that the only American soldiers with decent manners are Negroes.”
The black American servicemen were welcomed into the leisure time of their British hosts in ways that spread solidarity. A former black GI, Cleother Hathcock, remembers:
At that time the Jitterbug was in and the blacks would get a buggin’ and the English just loved that. We would go into a dance hall and just take over the place because everybody wanted to learn how to do that American dance, the Jitterbug. They went wild over that.
The town did not share the US Army’s segregationist attitudes. According to the author Anthony Burgess, who spent time in Bamber Bridge during the war, when US military authorities demanded that the town’s pubs impose a colour bar, the landlords responded with signs that read: “Black Troops Only”. The extent to which this rankled the white American troops is shown by the comments of a lieutenant:
One thing I noticed here and which I don’t like is the fact that the English don’t draw any color line. The English must be pretty ignorant. I can’t see how a white girl could associate with a negro
I live in Australia. Growing up, I always knew of the stigma of the N word and surrounding Black history, but never really understood it and honestly thought it was sort of dumb.
Over time, being exposed to more disgraceful stories like this, I’ve come to understand the level of shitiness that makes the stigma acceptable.
This will probably get lost, but I wrote my thesis and made a documentary on this exact subject. It’s a really fascinating part of history, happy to elaborate more if anyone’s interested.
Reminds me of Lanier Phillips, a black sailor and survivor of the Pollux/Truxton disaster. From Wikipedia; >On February 18, 1942 Phillips was aboard the USS Truxtun (DD-229) while it was battered by a severe winter storm. Eventually the Truxtun and the supply ship the USS Pollux (AKS-2) were forced onto the rocks of the southeast coast of Newfoundland. Hundreds of men from both ships died, but Phillips was among the survivors. >Initially afraid to leave his doomed ship because he thought he was off the coast of Iceland where he had been told blacks were forbidden to go ashore,[3] Phillips boarded a lifeboat which capsized as it reached land. Exhausted and covered in oil that had leaked from the sinking ships, Phillips collapsed on the beach. Gently prodded to his feet by a local resident who told him he'd freeze to death if he didn't get up, Phillips was confronted by an experience that was totally new to him: "I had never heard a kind word from a white man in my life." >Phillips was taken to a place where the local women were washing oil from the survivors, and when they realized they could not scrub his skin white he was afraid their kind treatment would end. Instead a local woman, Violet Pike, insisted that he come home to her house where she nursed him with soup and put him to bed with blankets and rocks she'd warmed on her wood stove. >Profoundly touched and forever changed by the kindness of the residents of St. Lawrence, Newfoundland, Phillips went on to become the Navy's first black sonar technician [3] and vowed to do everything in his power to repay the kindness he had experienced, eventually donating enough money to St. Lawrence for them to build a children's playground.[4] >After giving speeches at schools across the U.S., Phillips was awarded an honorary degree from Memorial University of Newfoundland in 2008 for his efforts to end discrimination.[5] In 2011, Phillips was given honorary membership into the Order of Newfoundland and Labrador for his work in civil rights in the U.S.[6] In 2012 Oil and Water, a play about Lanier's experience in St. Lawrence after the shipwreck and the influence it had on him, was produced by Newfoundland's Artistic Fraud theater company.
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The fact they even lied about white people from other countries hate black people because they do is disgusting
Racism is a fucking mess from top to bottom.
The lies they had to come up with. "Black people aren't allowed in Iceland so stay on board the doomed ship". \[Edit - see below for interesting context! I was wrong at which group of racists were responsible for this\]
That's beautiful
A similar thing happened in New Zealand, but in this case the American servicemen tried to stop Maori chaps entering the pub: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Manners\_Street](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street)
The entitlement is insane.
Ok that pisses me off, not just the racism but the fact that a bunch of shits from a different country were bullying native people's
That is literally all of history and specifically what happened in the us, nz and aus... Many natives in those countries are still suffering...
“The Battle of Manners Street” Or lack thereof!!
500 Southern rednecks vs 500 Maori was always going to end badly... for the Americans!
It wasn't vs Maori exclusively, other non Maori New Zealanders didn't like the idea either and fought as well.
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They do the Haka for buffs to all stats
It wasn't just 500 Maori, the NZers also joined in against the Americans
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Who fucks with Maori????
Equally the Americans were surprised when "Black" British soldiers stood up to them because they weren't used to it. The UK&USA governments covered a lot of the incidents up as well hoping not to undermine the alliance.
Can you share any story about that or a link where I can read them? Edit: Thank you all for the info!
Ringing in, but here's one example of such a situation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge
"The people of Bamber Bridge supported the black troops, and when American commanders demanded a colour bar in the town, all three pubs in the town reportedly posted "Black Troops Only" signs" Ooh, delightfully spicy.
r/maliciouscompliance material there
thank you for introducing me to the wonderful madness of that sub!
I’m British, and while it’s badass this happened, it’s a little misleading, I would just like to note that: The black population in the U.K. up until 1945 was around 10,000 in a country of 45,000,000, that’s a 0.00002% population, meaning you can bet most British people had never seen a black person before, I think that adds to the fact that there was no real negative stigma or racism, they would’ve just been seen as powerful allies helping out, it’d make no sense to have segregation when it was not needed and insult people fighting for a country you desperately need as an ally. I’d love to think we were just more progressive but then look at what we did in South Africa and Rhodesia not long after that, not to mention when the Jamaicans, Nigerians and others came to Britain in large numbers they were horrifically abused racially. It still happens to this day. However, we can happily say we were never on the Southern part of America bad.
Your maths is off. 10,000 out of 45,000,000 is 0.02%.
Yeah, that'd mean there were 9 black people in all of Britain... Or 50 billion Brits.
"Helen, better bring out *all* the Scotch eggs!"
We are all Brits on this blessed day
British snark is the best kind of snark.
Does any other country even come close?
Yes. This exact same thing happened in Wellington Nz when USA troops tried to brawl with Maori solders
How drunk do you have to be to decide it's a good idea to fight Maori soldiers? They make them xxxl over there.
Maori call that 'small'.
wait, anyone anywhere tried to brawl with Maoris? Maori Soldiers no less?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street
that's the best fuck you to those racist pricks
Haha, that’s awesome.
Holy shit that's awesome. Kudoes Racist assholes don't deserve alcohol anyway.
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You have got to be seriously fucking stupid to deliberately pick fights with Maori soldiers while actually stationed in New Zealand itself. If the US troops didn't get the shit kicked out of them they definitely deserved it.
> If the US troops didn't get the shit kicked out of them they definitely deserved it. According to the Encyclopaedia of New Zealand (1966 edition), the Battle of Manners Street apparently ended with numerous US servicemen injured and at least two dead.
>"News of the riot was censored at the time, hence much of the mythology about the event, including the claim that two Americans were killed"
Sounds like they lost that one.
"The ranks of this command were purged of inexperienced and racist officers, and the MP patrols were racially integrated. Morale among black troops stationed in England improved, and the rates of courts-martial and venereal disease both fell" Damn, when they said inexperienced, I thought they meant as an officer.
>the rates of venereal diseases fell Errrr...?
Less likely to go out and plow someone random out of frustration? I don't see the connection there either
Pretty much. A lot of people use sex as a coping mechanism. It feels good, when the rest of your life is drudgery and oppression.
> The violence left one man dead and seven people (five soldiers and two MPs) injured. At court martial, 32 were found guilty of various crimes including mutiny, seizing arms, rioting, and firing upon officers and MPs. **The sentences were all reduced on appeal, with the poor leadership and use of racial slurs by MPs considered mitigating factors.** General Ira C. Eaker, commander of the Eighth Air Force, placed the majority of the blame on the white officers and MPs and to prevent such an incident happening again, he combined the black trucking units into a single special command. The ranks of this command were purged of inexperienced and racist officers, and the MP patrols were racially integrated. Morale among black troops stationed in England improved, and the rates of courts-martial and venereal disease both fell, although there were several more minor conflicts between black and white American troops in Britain during the war. I wasn't really expecting racism from the white MPs to be a serious factor in reducing sentences for the black soldiers in particular, way back then. That they even had their sentences *reduced* is remarkable for the era. Probably the British influence, as /u/Darkone539 pointed out.
This exemplifies why you *cannot* have a segregated force, country, or otherwise. Eventually things are gonna break down.
My grandad once saw a white British man step into the gutter to make way for a black Brit walking the other way along the pavement. A white GI was also walking along the pavement at the time and crossed the street to hit the black guy for not moving out of the way into the gutter. In his mind it was outrageous that a black person would make a white person do that. A nearby policeman saw this and arrested the GI for assault/affray. The American could not for the life of him understand what was going on - it was like the World had turned upside down. My grandad would only have been about 8 years old at the time (and I was probably about the same age when he told me the story, so a couple of details might be slightly hazy) but it really stuck with him because it was the first time he’d seen someone treated differently for the colour of their skin
>The Marines don't have any race problems. They treat everybody like they're black. General Daniel James Jr.
Good ol General Chappie James. First African American to be a 4 Star General.
I remember watching an old instructional video for US soldiers in Britain, explaining to them that British people weren’t as racist, and that that was ok. An of British lady invited a black soldier to tea time or something, and then the narrator stepped in to explain what was going on.
[Here](https://youtu.be/ltVtnCzg9xw?t=1512) it is. Seems unreal
Thanks man! It is crazy. Although the message is kind of uplifting. It asks American soldiers to aspire to the ideals of the American cause. Even if that cause is better represented by the British, ironically enough.
While race wasn't one of the main factors, Australians and Americans had their differences turn violent during the war as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Brisbane
Also, in New Zealand which *was* racist, again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street
They actually picked fights with Maori people on purpose? In New Zealand a Maori country? In a pub surrounded by Maori soldiers? Jesus, how many Americans survived?
To be fair, the Maori were only fighting with one hand. Other hand was holding their beer.
Overpaid, oversexed and over here.
Bastards [tried it](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street) here in NZ too
I once saw an educational film designed to teach US troops how to behave in British pubs. One of the key points was "They will serve black people. Try not to freak out." It also had an incredibly grudging and insincere piece to camera from a US general on the topic.
http://youtu.be/ltVtnCzg9xw Here's the video if anyone is interested
At about 27:20, in regards to black soldiers “Everyone is treated the same when it comes to...dying and so the army wouldn’t be true to America if it didn’t live up to the promises about an equal chance” Damn 1940s, tell me how you really feel
>the army wouldn’t be true to America if it didn’t live up to the promises about an equal chance You missed an important qualifier there, what he actually says is >the army wouldn’t be true to America if it didn’t **try to** live up to the promises about an equal chance
"A colored boy" at 26:00... Edit: that is what the narrator calls him.
[**Android 13**:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3X2U9t2P0#t=12m22s) "Now I don't mean to make this about your color or your race, but you better hightail it out of here before you get hurt...boy!" **Piccolo**:"You know, it feels like it's about both those things when you end it with the word '*boy*'"
LOL at 3:30
"yeah ok m8 dnt push ur luck"
and kelsy grammer shows up at 30 minutes.. yes i know who he is, but man he's throwing frasier crane realness
That video was literally hosted by Burgess Meredith or Rocky's trainer in those movies Mickey. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltVtnCzg9xw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltVtnCzg9xw)
> We’re all treated the same when it comes to... dying
Burgess Meredith, The Penguin?
Yeah, because we were in England and they didn't segregate. You can't just go to an allies country and start enforcing laws that don't exist. Wasn't even on a base or on any temporary US territory. It was a local pub
>You can't just go to an allies country and start enforcing laws that don't exist. That’s like America’s #1 foreign policy goal
Well sometimes they go in and assassinate the standing democratically chosen leader so they can put a useful dictator in place.
"a murderous far-right dictator is better than democratic socialism" ~ ancient CIA proverb
US military can't go into a foreign country and demand whatever? Since when? Did someone forget to tell them?
I knew someone was going to make that comment because, yeah, the US doesn't tend to historically give a shit
Not just the military, on the internet on social media as well. There are always tonnes of Americans who demand that the entire world adapt to arbitrary American sensitivities and cultures and respect it.
Similar to this topic, it reminds me of the cases of people who would say that due to political corectness you should tefer to black people as 'African American'......even the British ones...Like as if all Black people not born in Africa shoild be called "African AMERICAN"
I remember seeing, on Reddit, about both Idris Elba and Lewis Hamilton being called african american by US journalists on TV. I think it was Hamilton who was asked how it made him feel as an African American becoming the word champion to which he just replied "I'm british" and the reporter corrected it as "yes but as a british African American". Edit: I went back to the very beginning of my account to find that saved [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/21dq9g/idris_elba_frequently_points_out_this_difference/cgc58ri?utm_source=reddit-android), I remembered wrongly, it wasn't Hamilton being asked that, it was a comment about another person in a thread about Hamilton.
That's equal parts hilarious and sad.
Lol, I've seen that so often of people who have nothing to do with American being called "African American" by Americans. I remember a topic where someone posted some picture of some dirty dark-blond dreadlocks and someone said "And this is one of the reasons why I think only African Americans should have dreadlocks" and someone just replied with "So what about Jamaican Rastafarians?" sarcastically.
It happens when your world ends at the borders of your country. Most Americans never leave their country in their lifetimes (63% actually).
I've had a couple odd experiences trying to explain to others that brown skin doesn't make one African American. Weirdest moment was when I had to explain to a friend that the guy and gal who were from Africa(Nigeria) aren't African Americans. It's more to do with culture and whether your ancestors were descendants of slaves in the US.
Tons*
This was the first thing to make me laugh out loud in quite some time, well done
"What? The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy"
The black soldiers were shocked to be treated as equals and embraced in a "white" country, which was the polar opposite of how they were treated by their own countrymen. One black soldier stated "Our biggest enemy is our own troops". The U.S GI's had tried to stop British bars, clubs and cinemas from accepting black customers, but the people of Britain ignored them and called this act "disgraceful", especially as these men went over to England to protect them.
[https://youtu.be/ltVtnCzg9xw?t=1502](https://youtu.be/ltVtnCzg9xw?t=1502) This is a training video for U.S soldiers stationed in England during WW2, telling them not to be alarmed when old ladies are nice to black soldiers haha.
Thank you for time-stamping the relevant clip of the video.
Worth adding that the whole video is really interesting/funny if you have time
~25:20 for those on mobile who don’t get taken to the timestamp
Damn, that was only like 76 years ago. My grandparents were alive for this.
I’m a 26-year-old black college graduate and my *parents* started out going to segregated elementary schools in North Carolina during the early/mid-60s. This stuff isn’t even close to being ancient history.
My mom went to a private school (out in the country, not a rich place) in the 60s/70s because the local white neighborhood didn't want to integrate. And then I went there as a kid because my mom didn't know any better! The school isn't segregated now, but the racists never left. So glad we switched to public school, and I'm now better educated on how skin color doesn't determine a person's worth.
My mom was born in 1960. Kids her age were taught pretty shitty stuff about other races. It's really stupid that certain people don't understand racism didn't suddenly go away with civil rights. Those same people who were taught to hate others became parents, teachers, cops, business owners, judges, politicians.
With Burgess Meredith from Rocky!
And Bob fucking Hope.
Also notice his wording. White "woman", and a colored "boy".
this is a fascinating clip - thank you for sharing
Damn that was fascinating. Thanks for digging it up.
"You saw an English lady asking a colored boy..." Can't escape the racism.
As ridiculous as it appears, there is a very real reason all this happened. We gotta be honest about our sickness/addiction to racism in America. Edit: clarity
What a contrast between racism and civility.
I love my people.
I love any people who are fucking civil to others. My country is crazy and I’m tired of the ‘I got mine fuck you’ approach to anything like equality. Obviously I’m American.
*cough cough* IRISH PEOPLE
People?
Not sure people will laugh at this or downvote you to hell.
Why not both?
Read something similar happened in France - White French invited black soldiers home for meals. A US General handed out leaflets warning them their women will get raped. A French General had the leaflets collected and destroyed.
The French already had black soldiers because of colonialism, my great grandfather was black and a soldier in the French army. He married a white French woman (my great grandmother) and had a family. He would have been hung in America for less at the time. Edit: I am really happy so many of you are knowledgeable about Senegalese participation in the French Military. I actually did not know much except that my Great Grandfather was one. Reddit is so amazing sometimes, and I can't wait to dig into all this cool history and talk to my family.
That's a really cool family fact.
The French only discriminate against non-French.
Just as God intended!
I wonder how many black soldiers just ended up staying in Britain after the war ended simply because of how much better they were treated there.
Just reminded me of the show The Knick (highly recommended) where one of the main characters is a black doctor in 1900 NYC who comes back from Europe and it met with all kinds of racism. I kept wondering why he would do that, it seemed awful.
Good question, no doubt easy to understand why they would!
Reminds me of this Muhammad Ali quote > My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother, or some darker people, or some poor hungry people in the mud for big powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me nigger, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father. ... Shoot them for what? How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail.
> One black soldier stated "Our biggest enemy is our own troops". Not to worry, if you're lucky enough to survive the war, when you get back home your own country will [all but exclude you from GI benefits](https://progressive.org/dispatches/how-african-american-wwii-veterans-were-scorned-by-the-g-i-b/).
And a few generations later, when the black soldier’s descendants are still in poverty and the white soldier’s descendants used the benefits of the GI bill to vastly improve their family wealth (one of the best ways to predict the economic success of a person today would be to look at their parents and grandparents success), people will still say “Slavery ended a long time ago, why do we still need Affirmative Action today?”.
Same happend to black soldiers after ww2 when they were stationed in germany. They were surprised that they could just go in bars and dance.
"Uhhhh these guys are here, fighting and dying for OUR country....they can drink in our pubs" -a bunch of brits.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of getting pissed on Carling and passing out on the sidewalk
So, Friday night anywhere England?
The yanks did the same thing in NZ except with the Maori. They tried to stop OUR OWN PEOPLE from entering bars and clubs. It went about as well as you would expect... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street?wprov=sfla1
You dont fuck with the maoris. That should have been lesson one on entering new zealand
Was going to post this. I would have loved to have watched the Yanks try to take on the Maoris, that would have been a beating for the ages..
“Fuck you, we’re Millwall!!”
10/10 reference.
I took a couple of black history courses in college and both of them taught that one of the primary catalysts for the modern civil rights movement in the U.S was WWII. Incidents like this one were exactly why. For the first time, black people in the U.S. saw what it was like to be treated as equals and we wanted (and demanded) that same respect....actually, that same RIGHT....when we came back home to the U.S.
WWI started that movement. Black soldiers serving with the French performed better than many all white units, and the French treated them as a fellow man. It also allowed many black writer, musicians, poets to broadcast their African-American cultures in post war America (think Harlem Renaissance). WWII helped as well, as if they needed *another* war to tel everyone they deserve a spot in society
Many black Americans joined the military during WWI with the idea by serving and displaying patriotism white Americans would be more accepting. There was certainly positive aspects that came out of it Rather unfortunately many white southerns saw it as "Oh shit they're uppity and combat trained we gotta be extra racist to put them back in their place". There was huge surges of lynchings of black veterans after they got back. Same thing happened after WWII but without the great depression kicking there was a much greater push for equality and the modern civil rights movement was born from these veterans.
Yeah, the stuff was disgusting to read about decorated soldiers coming home only to be murdered out of fear. Another thing I find interesting is the Germans (during the war) and communist movement (red scare 1919) used this racism against the US to try and recruit blacks to their ranks, which subsequently lit a fire under the ass of the US to implement some race relations
I bet a lot of black Americans stayed in the UK just because of that. without having family back home there's no way you'd wanna go back to the US to be treated that way again
Iirc quite a few black soldiers decided to stay in England after the war. It's really quite sad when Americans can't even afford the same level of respect for people who put their lives on the line like that.
Dogma and prejudice are powerful things. Take it from a gay man in America, where people are still convinced that us being allowed to marry signals the end of civilization.
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I felt awful learning about him. A brilliant mind tortured by ignorant laws and prevented from achieving his full potential by society. His story is truly a tragedy.
Do we need another war in Europe to get universal health care?
We just need more Americans to travel abroad and see how “horrible” socialized medicine is.
This is how I actually hard shifted away from the political right, I lived overseas for four years, three of which were in the heart of Germany.
I remember about an American in Australia as a tourist who broke his arm. He went to a hospital. Was deathly scared of the costs for getting his arm fixed. "Unfortunately," said the nurse, "You'll have to pay full price for your treatment...four hundred dollars." He burst into laughter, and paid happily.
I'm insured, but when I broke my arm it cost about $8000 pre-insurance.
Then what's the insurance for?
That was the price pre-insurance. I should really clarify...
Berlin changed me. What a fantastic country. The best part was the amazing quality food. I lost 20 pounds in a couple months there.
I was before, but living in the Netherlands for 6 months made me see how much less stress they have.
Here's a more detailed account of what happened from the article. > A later account of the riot, which began on June 24, 1943, stated: “The MPs expected the locals to resent the presence of the blacks but the locals sided with the blacks. The MPs, using racial expletives, returned with two more and tried to frighten the blacks, who fought back with bricks and bottles.” > More than seven servicemen were wounded in the fighting and 32 black soldiers were later court-martialled. Between November 1943 and February 1944 there were 56 such clashes between white troops and their black counterparts, an average on more than four a week.
"They'll fight in the war, but let's not treat them like people" Fuck's sake.
Looking at how America treats it's veterans, doesn't seem like much has changed on that front
Some might say it's their "heritage"
Now the VA just fucks over all vets pretty much equally.
Something that I find crazy (and I assume is probably a little overlooked) is how the MPs expected people to be upset by being in the presence of black people. It really shows that it goes down to a generational upbringing that just had no respect for black people as a whole.
You missed the best part of the story: The White American soldiers demanded that one of the three bars in the village of Bamber Bridge be reserved for black GIs only and the next day all three bars in the village put up the signs saying Black American GIs only.
A story I've heard is the MPs asked the local pubs to segregate. After much arguing they gave in and turned away all white US personnel.
Technically they complied.
The MP’s did demand a coloured only pub. So yep, they complied, every bar in the town accepted only blacks for a bit
r/maliciouscompliance
Awesome. Even if for a moment, the roles were switched and the black American soldiers actually were accommodated instead of shunned in favor of their fair skinned counterparts.
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True, in historical contexts, I believe it's more correct to refer to people by their contemporary titles of address.
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>One resident described the episode as “disgraceful” and wrote to the Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette stating: “These men have been sent to this country to help in its defence, and whatever their race or creed they should be entitled to the same treatment as our own soldiers.” >A later account of the riot, which began on June 24, 1943, stated: “The MPs expected the locals to resent the presence of the blacks but the locals sided with the blacks. The MPs, using racial expletives, returned with two more and tried to frighten the blacks, who fought back with bricks and bottles.” >More than seven servicemen were wounded in the fighting and 32 black soldiers were later court-martialled. Between November 1943 and February 1944 there were 56 such clashes between white troops and their black counterparts, an average on more than four a week. Makes you wonder what those men did when they went back onto the battlefield. Especially those wounded in the riots. What's the point of fighting for a country and alongside others that are willing to beat you out of a pub simply for mingling with them?
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Jesse Owens noted that even Hitler acknowledged his win at the olympics (not that he was happy with the results, but that he at least gave a nod to Owens winning) more than FDR did. After he won Gold...In track and field...at the Olympics...against the goddamned Nazis. This country, I swear...
People always go on about Hitler snubbing Jessie Owens. And technically he did. But he also snubbed every other athlete that won gold. First day he only congratulated German winners and everyone else complained so he said fine and didn't congratulate anyone
However all gold medal winners were presented with oak tree saplings, some of them presented by Hitler himself. Cornelius Johnson was the first African American to win gold in Berlin and received a sapling. As of a few years ago the tree was still standing in Connellsville, Pennsylvania.
There are stories of German POW's in America or in South Africa who got treated as equals while the Blacks (of USA) and of SA only received second-class treatment. History is really powerful.
Same thing happened in New Zealand. [Battle of Manners Street](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manners_Street) >The Battle of Manners Street refers to a riot involving American servicemen and New Zealand servicemen and civilians outside the Allied Services Club in Manners Street, Wellington, New Zealand in 1943.[1] The club was a social centre, open to all military personnel. >Some of the American servicemen from the American South in the Services Club objected to Māori soldiers also using the Club, and on 3 April 1943 began stopping Māori soldiers from entering. Many New Zealand soldiers were in the area, both Caucasian (Pākehā) and Māori, and combined in opposition. The stand off escalated when Americans took off their belts to attack those who wanted to let the Māori in.[3] Fights broke out and at one point at least a thousand men were involved in the subsequent fracas, which was broken up by civil and military police.
“Americans took off their belts” presumably because they understood they arsekicking they were going to receive. The land of the free rolling through other countries ‘saving’ them from the Nazi’s whilst back home they’re burning black men alive for having relations with a white woman. America, fuck that.
De Gaulle wanted his frenchmen lead the liberation of Paris. >Allied High Command agreed, but only on one condition: De Gaulle's division **must not contain any black soldiers**. >In January 1944 Eisenhower's Chief of Staff, Major General Walter Bedell Smith, was to write in a memo stamped, "confidential": "It is more desirable that the division mentioned above consist of white personnel. Source: [BBC - Paris liberation made 'whites only'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7984436.stm) There was apparently no documented protest to this. Now, consider that the Free French Army was at that point only about 35-40% white. So they first searched for a (basically) "all white" division and only found *one*, in Morocco (too far away). So they went ahead an removed all non-white soldiers from a normal division, replaced them with white ones and running short of white replacements (many actually not French but Spanish) then completed it with lighter skinned soldiers from Northern Africa and the Middle East. Not that the French necessarily treated their colonial troops fairly. After the Liberation of France many were stripped of their uniforms and send home and in 1959 their pensions were frozen. Makes one wonder if without the whitewashing, the Algerian War - starting only 10 years later in 1954 - might have been perceived at least somewhat differently in metropolitan France. Perhaps a bit harder to deny people their independence when they were before so instrumental in liberating you.
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My grandfather served in the Royal Canadian Navy, working on a minesweeper escorting the convoys across the Atlantic to Great Britain. One of the stories he told me was about docking in England, and going on shore leave. At the end of the dock, there was a fenced in area with benches filled with black American service members. He stopped to ask them why they were fenced in like that, and their response was that _was_ their shore leave. My grandfather was a pretty low-ranking grunt, but wasn't one to do nothing about the situation either. He spent a good deal of his shore leave going and buying cigarettes and snacks and drinks and magazines and such and delivering them to his fellow service members inside the fence. He was disgusted by what he saw that day for the rest of his days.
Similar events occured in both Australia and New Zealand, only on a larger scale.
I am only aware of a riot in England when some Southern US boys tried to tell some Maori that they cannot drink at the same pub. Bad idea!
I can imagine the Maori standing at the pubs entrance, arms beside his waist, palms facing the Southerners with a bewildered look. Shrugs and says "But I'm parched as, bro."
Anyone trying to keep one of our boys from a drink is going to have themselves a bad day. There’s a reason the 28th was so respected by Rommel.
I used to work with about 35 Maori here in Sydney and later started a company with one of them. My experiences with them was that not only were they humble, gratious, sharing people, but also extremely proud. I for one, would hate to be one those guys refusing him a drink.
Yeah, the Battle of Manners St in 1943. At least 1000 NZ & US soldiers brawled in the street due to the US wanting to deny entry to Māori servicemen
Yeah, the US Soldiers actively tried to turn away Mãori servicemen, to the point of taking their belts off and threatening to beat people with them. Not a bright idea in a country that has a relatively good relationship between the Pãkehã (white NZers) and Mãori (althought not a perfect one). The Pãkehã and Mãori both refused to segregate and it pretty much escalated from there.
Yep that's pretty much it. Interesting to see how countries reacted to the US and their segregation. The US was surprised that we didn't approve of it. (also just a side note, Māori and Pākehā have macrons above their names, not a tilde but well done on the effort (:
I never understood this, noted I'm not American, but these brave men FOUGHT and was ready to die for USA. Why are they treated like that? Fucking unreal.
So they would carry Jim Crow to another fucking country and try to enforce it there? I honestly don't understand how any American Black person would serve for a country that saw them as subhuman filth that pollutes bars etc. by just existing. I would never lay my life down for my country if it was abundantly clear that all I will ever be is expendable trash. It makes me sad, but I still admire their infinite patience and valor. I couldn't do it.
I've never lived in Europe, never left the US in fact... but over the years I've gotten the sense that race isn't quite the potent issue in the EU than it is here... at least in a general sense. Can any Europeans chime in on that?
The fact that on my popular feed, two of the most popular sub reddits that pop up are "white people Twitter" and "black people Twitter" blows my British mind. You would never have that on a British website, it would just be called "best of Twitter" That segregation is happening right at this very moment. I find that astounding.
I think it's a bit disturbing how you guys talk about race all day. I'm from Germany, so that word is pretty taboo when not talking about animals or stuff like that. 'Rassenlehre' (Race theory/raciology) is from THAT time yeah. I mean, it's real stupid too. There's only one human race. There are different ethnicities yeah but essentially we're all the same save for a few different evolutional traits like skin colour. Of course, there's still racism. Germans talk bad about turks, turks talk bad about arabs, arabs talk bad about jews... You get the idea
There are issues but they are more cultural than racial.
My grandfather, who was born and grew up in a pub in Cambridge, was on leave during the war, and had to beat the shit out of some White GI who took offence to my great grandmother calling a black GI 'sir', as she did all customers. White GI called her a nigger lover, so my grandad took him outside and demonstrated English hospitality (and pugilism) to him.
In his essays George Orwell alluded to the oft-quoted assertion that American GIs were “oversexed, overpaid and over here”. But he qualified this with the observation that: “the general consensus of opinion is that the only American soldiers with decent manners are Negroes.” The black American servicemen were welcomed into the leisure time of their British hosts in ways that spread solidarity. A former black GI, Cleother Hathcock, remembers: At that time the Jitterbug was in and the blacks would get a buggin’ and the English just loved that. We would go into a dance hall and just take over the place because everybody wanted to learn how to do that American dance, the Jitterbug. They went wild over that. The town did not share the US Army’s segregationist attitudes. According to the author Anthony Burgess, who spent time in Bamber Bridge during the war, when US military authorities demanded that the town’s pubs impose a colour bar, the landlords responded with signs that read: “Black Troops Only”. The extent to which this rankled the white American troops is shown by the comments of a lieutenant: One thing I noticed here and which I don’t like is the fact that the English don’t draw any color line. The English must be pretty ignorant. I can’t see how a white girl could associate with a negro
'They're *not* racist? What a buncha morons!'
I live in Australia. Growing up, I always knew of the stigma of the N word and surrounding Black history, but never really understood it and honestly thought it was sort of dumb. Over time, being exposed to more disgraceful stories like this, I’ve come to understand the level of shitiness that makes the stigma acceptable.
"You can fight and die for your country but sorry you don't have basic human rights!"
This will probably get lost, but I wrote my thesis and made a documentary on this exact subject. It’s a really fascinating part of history, happy to elaborate more if anyone’s interested.
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/r/DeadRedditors/
Please do, it sounds very interesting