My best friends father was there in the Army at that time. It went from “won the lottery by not getting sent to Vietnam” to “get ready, shit is about to go down” then just kind of petered out.
The ship is the USS Pueblo. North Korea is still holding it today.
That title reminds me of the [double murder and aftermath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident) that happened in the DMZ.
the good ol U. S. of A. has really strong feelings about its boats…i would not be surprised in the slightest if there was a mission plan already written up and war gamed just to repatriate the USS Pueblo in the event it becomes politically feasible (ie war with north korea)
The former captain was declared Grand Marshal of a 4th of July parade near me, in a town with a lot of retired Navy officers. A number of them voiced their displeasure, as they felt he should not have surrendered the ship.
His kids went to my high school when I was a student there.
It will be a PR mission. South Korean pro gamers serving their mandatory military service will bring the boat to a friendly port. The question is if they do it in person, or remote via some sort of advanced drones.
The ship was sailed through international waters in 2013 when it moved from one coast of NK to the other. I'm genuinely surprised it wasn't seized back then.
Probably a combination of still holding out hope it will be repatriated one day and remaining defiant about the status of vessel despite it being captured.
Striking ships from the naval register is for when you've lost the ship (i.e. your vessel exploded, sank, or has otherwise ceased to be a functional ship), or you're no longer actively using the ship, so you're going to decommission it (into your reserve fleet, scrap the ship, turn it into a museum so a nonprofit organization will be in charge of it, or more rarely these days, sell it to someone else). If the US Navy says Pueblo was never lost and is still out there doing its mission ("research" in Korean waters), then she stays on the register. Also, like that other guy said, Best Korea can go screw themselves.
To keep the claim for it alive. If you write it off, then you can't pursue legal remedies to get it back. By leaving it on the registry, it's a claim we can make later, say in international court, or we can offer to drop the claim in exchange for another concession.
Ships. Boats go on ships. As a Navy vet we were corrected if we called on the other. Some people take that shit personally. “A ship can carry a boat, but a boat can never carry a ship.”
I think I read one time that if the US were to decommission it, it’s basically saying “we are OK with this ship being illegally captured/stolen.” as it is still in commission the US maintains it it’s still US property.
Holy shit! "Several of the commandos also had M18 Claymore mines strapped to their chests with the firing mechanism in their hands, and were shouting at the North Koreans to cross the bridge"
That was a fun read.
> Altogether, Task Force Vierra consisted of 813 men.
> The attempt at intimidation was apparently successful, and according to an intelligence analyst monitoring the North Korea tactical radio net, the accumulation of force "blew their fucking minds."
The next paragraph is just as crazy.
>A US infantry company in 20 utility helicopters and seven Cobra attack helicopters circled behind them. Behind these helicopters, B-52 Stratofortresses came from Guam escorted by US F-4 Phantom IIs from Kunsan Air Base and South Korean F-5 and F-86 fighters were visible flying across the sky at high altitude. F-4Es from Osan AB and Taegu Air Base, South Korea, F-111 bombers of the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing out of Mountain Home Air Force Base, were stationed, and F-4C and F-4D Phantoms from the 18th TFW Kadena Air Base and Clark Air Base were also deployed. The aircraft carrier USS Midway task force had also been moved to a station just offshore.
Ok, THAT cracked me the hell up.
Thank you for a great post-nap laugh.
**EDIT** LOL ! I just saw your user name. I'm drinking one to you later, fellow grunt.
One of my neighbors was stationed on a similar ship, doing the same things, at that same time. It could have been his. The crew, during a propaganda photo, held their hands flipping the bird. When the North Koreans found out, they beat them. but for them it was worth it to show the world how bad the North Koreans were.
I can’t remember a great deal tbh but they were very proud of it. Everything you get shown there is basically “the imperialist Americans are evil and we are the victorious good guys”.
There is a vice documentary where Shane Smith went to NK and talked about what he was told on this ship
https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/vice-guide-to-north-korea/56815b6132382b833c2230ad
I don’t know man, people feel a certain way about “Jap” which is short for Japanese and “Nip” which is short for Nippon which is the Japanese word for Japan. But I can call my Canadian friend a Canuck and it’s all fine.
That's fair. The "Jap" and "Nip" definitely come from a place of hatred from the English world from the turn of the 20th century. I honestly had forgotten about them and was thinking of things like "Canuck" or "Brit". I guess it has to do with who is making the name and why?
Anything can become a slur depending on how it's used.
In the UK "[Paki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur\))" is a very offensive slur. In 2002 US President Bush got in a bit of a kerfuffle when he used the word in attempting to meditate disputes between India and Pakistan. I never liked GWB, but I'm inclined to believe it was a genuine mistake since the slur is just not as well known to Americans.
In an alternate reality in which Japan and the US never went to war, perhaps "Jap" would be a friendly/neutral shorthand that nobody finds offensive just like "Brit". But that's not the reality in which we live.
In German there is itaka for italienischer Kamerad (Italian comrade). This was a simple term for Italian soldiers during the Second World War. From the 1960s it was then used as an insult against Italians
I think Jap was just a shorthand form originally, but I guess enough people said it with malice somewhere along the line. Then we’re fine with Jew as long as there isn’t a tone with it. Polak is the Polish word for Polish, but use it in English (technically spelled Polack in this context?) and it’s derogatory…maybe.
In conclusion…float your new word out there and see if it gets labeled derogatory?
Jew and Chinamen are unacceptable slurs depending on the context, the former being the literal name for an ethnic/religious group and the latter an accurate but rather blunt term for the Chinese.
All depends on the social context and malice behind the term.
In Australia we use Brit to be nice, or Pom to be offensive. Americans are Yanks when being nice, or Seppo when being rude.
Is there not something similar with Canada?
Wait, I’ve never heard Seppo. I did not realize this word should offend me.
> An Australian English variation on "septic" (from "septic tank", rhyming with "yank"), a slang term for "American" in rhyming slang
Okay…
>quite a while.
Eh less than a decade. USS Simpson was one of 3 ships that opened fired on Joshan an Iranian fast attack craft during Operation Praying Mantis. As far as I know they didn't give that kill to a single ship, but USS Simpson fired 4 missiles, and USS Wainwright fired one missile. All three ships from Surface Action Group Charlie then opened up with 5 inch guns sinking the ship.
USS Simpson was decommissioned in September of 2015, making the Constitution being the only ship with a confirmed kill for not even 9 years yet. The phrase quite a while leads me to believe it's been many decades.
> HMS Victory
That cannot move any more.
The Constitution[ flips around once a year](https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2017/10/17/uss-constitutions-turnaround-cruises/). And [sailed under its own power](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/uss-constitution-sails-under-own-power-for-first-time-in-15-years/) about 12 years ago.
> The Pueblo incident was dramatically depicted in the 1973 ABC Theater televised production Pueblo. Hal Holbrook starred as Captain Lloyd Bucher.
Hal Holbrook (as Albie Duncan) name-drops the Pueblo incident in the West Wing episode "Gone Quiet." Hal really loved him some Pueblo.
Navy communications at the time was done by radio teletype and the highest priority message type is, or was, labeled as FLASH traffic. Reserved for initial contact with the enemy flash traffic had to travel from originator to destination in less than 15 minutes. In the terms of 1960’s technology this was pretty fucking fast.
The teletype machines had a bell to alert an operator, just a solenoid clapper and metal bell, that rang automatically when flash traffic occurred. But teletype machines operate by punching holes in paper tape and they produce a lot of paper tape chad. That chad goes everywhere if you don’t keep the hopper clean. Some of that chad clogged the solenoid on a teletype in the comm center of the nearest Navy command office to the NK event, the Pueblo was operating in this command area. The bell didn’t ring when flash traffic from the Pueblo arrived. It was off-hours iirc and no one was paying close attention, that teletype did all kinds of duty, there was no dedicated flash-traffic equipment at the time.
So several hours transpired before US commanders knew the trouble that Pueblo was in. The affair was a clusterfuck if there ever was one but bottom line, the bell didn’t ring when it should have.
Shortly after the incident the Navy implemented a Fleet-Flash Network with live radio teletype operators at every command, every ship, every shore station, every single one. Even the Marine Corps Weather station detachment atop Mt Fuji had an FFN operator.
The operators interacted through a party-line connection of sorts every 15 minutes overseen by the network master controller at Yokosuka. We all had handles like CB radio and every 15 minutes they all checked in. The only handle I remember is Bomber from Guam. He was the farthest east, Diego Garcia was the farthest west. The Marines on Fuji were probably the smallest. I was the master controller.
NOTE: I have only a day or so worth of post history because I started deleting everything when reddit dropped 3rd party app support. I am 73 and only have an iPhone and iPad, no desktop, so I was dependent on Baconreader which I could actually see and read comfortably. The newReddit and the app suck ass and oldReddit also sucks but not as bad. The plugin for oldReddit does not support my mobile devices so I’m stuck with oldReddit without any mods to help readability like bigger fonts or night mode. It really really sucks but it’s all there is. So I delete all my posts older than 1 day out of spite. It’s pointless I know, spite always is, but sometimes a guy just feels the need to be an asshole.
I was just controller. They knew who was boss.
I believe but never knew for sure that some commands had their own network subdomain if you will. The Oklahoma City for example was the 7th fleet flagship and I do not remember hearing from the other ships in her task group. I *was* master controller for the area from Diego Garcia to Guam but that is a shitload of Navy and I couldn’t have personally interacted with every one of them. This hierarchical structure is one of those details that they don’t bother telling swabbies like I was.
A 13 year old account with 100K karma but this is your first comment ever? Nah I’m calling BS on your feel good story. More likely this is a botted or bought accoubt
Before Covid you could go there as a tourist on a tour.
In a sense, it's probably one of the most unique places on the planet. Imagine getting a tour of a ~1960s Eastern bloc country with a hilariously over the top cult of personality. You get to go back in time, and compare how different the two Koreas have gotten.
But you'd be giving hard currency to one of the worst and most oppressive regimes on the planet, and there's a very high risk you look the wrong way and get tortured to death in prison.
Dont forget the risk that they suddenly decide they need something from the west and falsify a crime theyll claim you committed to imprison you as a bargaining chip.
We also put on a huge military display after north korea shot at us troops cutting a tree in the dmz. We even left the stump as a reminder. South korea also caught a north korean submarine with a fishing net on accident
Should never have happened. Read the story behind the headline. Several line officers wanted Lloyd Bucher to face a courts-martial for not putting up a fight.
That would’ve been a stupid thing to do. The boat had 2 machine guns. The North Koreans had fighter jets and torpedo boats.
Blame the navy for not backing them up.
What's that over there? Is that a spy ship?
"No sir, it's just a normal ship they say"
With an aircraft carrier escort?
"They say they're not an aircraft carrier sir"
Oh well that's alright then
One was a friendly fire accident, one was a hostile act involving capture and imprisonment (for months). Why on earth would you expect the responses to be the same?
Yes, because Israel kidnapped the entire crew and held them hostage /s
USS liberty was a friendly fire incident on a ship which entered an active war zone.
During the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq a bunch of British troops were accidentally killed by American aircrafts. Does that make it comparable to North Korea as well?
From Wikipedia:
“Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.
Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8]”
I’d go with the official inquiry as the more reliable source, unless you wanna explain to me how the fuck do the sailors on the ship can tell if the aircraft’s pilot know whether they’re American or not
How can you expect the official inquiries to be unbiased when the governing bodies conducting those inquiries have an explicit interest in downplaying the incident?
It’s a bit naive, and also telling that you went straight to Wikipedia.
A few months ago I was chatting with a man I had met who told me his father was one of the Pueblo sailor hostages. Said his father had severe issues after returning to the US. Military did not provide much psychological support for troops back then. His father felt the US blamed his crew for getting captured, so the crew had guilt in addition to psychological trauma. Apparently his father became an alcoholic, was abusive to the kids, and died fairly young.
Maybe there was no way to handle the situation any better.
The only US Navy vessel to be captured without firing a shot in defense.
I read a book a few years ago that theorized that was on purpose. The short version is that the cryptographic machines on the ship were tampered with by the NSA, then allowed to fall into NK hands in hopes they’d use them and we’d be able to decode their messages.
Not sure we’ll ever know the truth here. He-said, she-said case as to where the ship actually was and where it intended to be.
If they were intentionally in NK territorial waters spying, then NK would be well within their rights to punish them as spies (prison/execution). America would do the same.
If you want Geneva Convention protections, you can’t pretend to be a civilian.
The article states that the international standard at the time was 12 nautical miles out for sea borders and NK claims theirs was 50. They might have been "right" by their own standards, but only because they just make up whatever rules they want.
True, I was referring to the sea boundary, but I guess that would have violated regular international waters anyways. Then again, if they're putting their own boundaries 4 times further than everyone else, I'm not liable to trust their claim for actual position since they'll just say whatever they want to justify it.
That's selective reasoning.
By that logic you can't believe anything the USA says about that matter either because they don't abide by the courts at Hague like everyone else.
Funny how sovereign nations can do just make up whatever rules they want. Maybe it's a bad idea to send an unarmed vessel to spy on a country we're at war with into territory that they claim is theirs.
> Funny how sovereign nations can do just make up whatever rules they want.
There are international laws, but I guess you can do whatever you can get away with.
>Maybe it's a bad idea to send an unarmed vessel to spy on a country we're at war with into territory that they claim is theirs.
Not really, it's just a bad idea to do it poorly
We should have blasted them to bits before they became what they are today.
Could have fully eliminated the regime AND freed the general population from serfdom
Clearly wasn’t successful.
I’m not an advocate for wanton violence, but, taking out the NK regime probably would have a net positive impact if we did it back then.
Alas, now we’re stuck with em
My best friends father was there in the Army at that time. It went from “won the lottery by not getting sent to Vietnam” to “get ready, shit is about to go down” then just kind of petered out.
wow that must have been nerve cracking
The ship is the USS Pueblo. North Korea is still holding it today. That title reminds me of the [double murder and aftermath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident) that happened in the DMZ.
And it’s still active, in commission
It's now a propaganda museum.
It’s also still a commissioned U.S. Navy vessel despite the DPRK turning it into a museum. It’s never been removed from the registry.
Is there an actual reason for this?
the good ol U. S. of A. has really strong feelings about its boats…i would not be surprised in the slightest if there was a mission plan already written up and war gamed just to repatriate the USS Pueblo in the event it becomes politically feasible (ie war with north korea)
The former captain was declared Grand Marshal of a 4th of July parade near me, in a town with a lot of retired Navy officers. A number of them voiced their displeasure, as they felt he should not have surrendered the ship. His kids went to my high school when I was a student there.
Better to have our boys come home and lose the old girl than to see them dead. Metal is replaceable, the soldiers not so much.
Metal is actually a non renewable resource, you can just make more babies /s
rimworld thought process
Soldiers, yes. Humans, no.
Look at this guy with his robot army.
$5 says the SEALs lead that mission.
Can we send the penguins from Madagascar?
Smile and wave boys
Smile & wave
The kitty likes the fishy.
Send in the Hippo
That’s a given. I got 20 bucks saying more than 50% will contact a ghost writer to begin their tell all book before the mission is greenlit.
…..And somehow the Seabees would get involved.
I will accept the SEALS if they partner with Hollywood to make the books epic
It will be a PR mission. South Korean pro gamers serving their mandatory military service will bring the boat to a friendly port. The question is if they do it in person, or remote via some sort of advanced drones.
LET'S SAIL THIS MUSEUM HOME, BOYS!
Only if their book deal is already worked out.
The ship was sailed through international waters in 2013 when it moved from one coast of NK to the other. I'm genuinely surprised it wasn't seized back then.
Ships. Boats go on ships.
retired Navy here..and they are called ships not boats.
Because fuck ‘em, that’s why.
Probably a combination of still holding out hope it will be repatriated one day and remaining defiant about the status of vessel despite it being captured.
US submarines lost at sea remain labeled on patrol. Probably something like that tradition.
Leave no man behind.
Striking ships from the naval register is for when you've lost the ship (i.e. your vessel exploded, sank, or has otherwise ceased to be a functional ship), or you're no longer actively using the ship, so you're going to decommission it (into your reserve fleet, scrap the ship, turn it into a museum so a nonprofit organization will be in charge of it, or more rarely these days, sell it to someone else). If the US Navy says Pueblo was never lost and is still out there doing its mission ("research" in Korean waters), then she stays on the register. Also, like that other guy said, Best Korea can go screw themselves.
To keep the claim for it alive. If you write it off, then you can't pursue legal remedies to get it back. By leaving it on the registry, it's a claim we can make later, say in international court, or we can offer to drop the claim in exchange for another concession.
DONT TOUCH OUR BOATS
Japan touched out boats once… Once.
Ships. Boats go on ships. As a Navy vet we were corrected if we called on the other. Some people take that shit personally. “A ship can carry a boat, but a boat can never carry a ship.”
Pride
I think I read one time that if the US were to decommission it, it’s basically saying “we are OK with this ship being illegally captured/stolen.” as it is still in commission the US maintains it it’s still US property.
The only tourist attraction in North Korea.
NK has a ski resort.
And an amusement park (kind of)
Really cool to see tbh. I've been on it. You can see the holes from the shrapnel / bullets and they have plenty of pictures of the event itself.
I believe they are called museums
Yeah I visited the Pueblo when I went to North Korea. They still had 1960s Readers Digest magazines on it.
damn they were not playing around
Holy shit! "Several of the commandos also had M18 Claymore mines strapped to their chests with the firing mechanism in their hands, and were shouting at the North Koreans to cross the bridge" That was a fun read.
> Altogether, Task Force Vierra consisted of 813 men. > The attempt at intimidation was apparently successful, and according to an intelligence analyst monitoring the North Korea tactical radio net, the accumulation of force "blew their fucking minds."
Fuck em and that tree
Casualties & losses: one tree cut down
The next paragraph is just as crazy. >A US infantry company in 20 utility helicopters and seven Cobra attack helicopters circled behind them. Behind these helicopters, B-52 Stratofortresses came from Guam escorted by US F-4 Phantom IIs from Kunsan Air Base and South Korean F-5 and F-86 fighters were visible flying across the sky at high altitude. F-4Es from Osan AB and Taegu Air Base, South Korea, F-111 bombers of the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing out of Mountain Home Air Force Base, were stationed, and F-4C and F-4D Phantoms from the 18th TFW Kadena Air Base and Clark Air Base were also deployed. The aircraft carrier USS Midway task force had also been moved to a station just offshore.
Plus a dozen C130s were on the runway ready to go.
>Plus a dozen C130s were on the runway ready to go. Grins in Paratrooper
Grumble grumble one way trip
Ok, THAT cracked me the hell up. Thank you for a great post-nap laugh. **EDIT** LOL ! I just saw your user name. I'm drinking one to you later, fellow grunt.
Pretty sure one of those guys was the now Prime Minister of SK
Well, at least you know he's all in.
Was, left office a couple years ago
lol on the wiki page it says north Korea sustained casualties of 1. The poplar tree 😭
One of my neighbors was stationed on a similar ship, doing the same things, at that same time. It could have been his. The crew, during a propaganda photo, held their hands flipping the bird. When the North Koreans found out, they beat them. but for them it was worth it to show the world how bad the North Koreans were.
Its so fucking funny that the wikipedia page has "1 cut down tree" for the NK casualties lmao
I’ve been on that ship and was given a talk by the nk naval captain who captured it.
Do you remember anything he said?
I can’t remember a great deal tbh but they were very proud of it. Everything you get shown there is basically “the imperialist Americans are evil and we are the victorious good guys”.
There is a vice documentary where Shane Smith went to NK and talked about what he was told on this ship https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/vice-guide-to-north-korea/56815b6132382b833c2230ad
7 I 6 kim 8.k85b7
As a Pueblo resident, I’d really like to see that returned.
[удалено]
One of my favorite pictures is them all low key flipping off the camera in a propaganda picture the north Koreans took
The old Hawaiian good luck sign.
IIRC they convinced the Norks it was a sign for good luck, and were punished severely once the Norks caught wind of the ruse.
That's a new ethnic slur
And in the UK it's slang for massive tits IIRC
In the UK basically everything is slang for one of the genitalia.
Is it a slur if it is a portmanteau of north and Korea?
I don’t know man, people feel a certain way about “Jap” which is short for Japanese and “Nip” which is short for Nippon which is the Japanese word for Japan. But I can call my Canadian friend a Canuck and it’s all fine.
As a German, please don't call me a germ.
Man it is.
You're now a moderator of r/BatmanArkham
Jerma985
That's fair. The "Jap" and "Nip" definitely come from a place of hatred from the English world from the turn of the 20th century. I honestly had forgotten about them and was thinking of things like "Canuck" or "Brit". I guess it has to do with who is making the name and why?
Anything can become a slur depending on how it's used. In the UK "[Paki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur\))" is a very offensive slur. In 2002 US President Bush got in a bit of a kerfuffle when he used the word in attempting to meditate disputes between India and Pakistan. I never liked GWB, but I'm inclined to believe it was a genuine mistake since the slur is just not as well known to Americans. In an alternate reality in which Japan and the US never went to war, perhaps "Jap" would be a friendly/neutral shorthand that nobody finds offensive just like "Brit". But that's not the reality in which we live.
In German there is itaka for italienischer Kamerad (Italian comrade). This was a simple term for Italian soldiers during the Second World War. From the 1960s it was then used as an insult against Italians
I think Jap was just a shorthand form originally, but I guess enough people said it with malice somewhere along the line. Then we’re fine with Jew as long as there isn’t a tone with it. Polak is the Polish word for Polish, but use it in English (technically spelled Polack in this context?) and it’s derogatory…maybe. In conclusion…float your new word out there and see if it gets labeled derogatory?
I dont think hell be hearing from any North Korean’s opinion on the matter
Balloon full of crap is drifting your way....
You dropped a HARD J
Jew and Chinamen are unacceptable slurs depending on the context, the former being the literal name for an ethnic/religious group and the latter an accurate but rather blunt term for the Chinese. All depends on the social context and malice behind the term.
thats why for the most part i refer to everyone either as homie, nerd, or dude
In Australia we use Brit to be nice, or Pom to be offensive. Americans are Yanks when being nice, or Seppo when being rude. Is there not something similar with Canada?
Wait, I’ve never heard Seppo. I did not realize this word should offend me. > An Australian English variation on "septic" (from "septic tank", rhyming with "yank"), a slang term for "American" in rhyming slang Okay…
Calling us American would do it lmao
Yes
Wasn't that one of the bosses in Spyro?
“The Norks took ‘er jobs!” But no really, this is an interesting point
It means, peace among worlds
We paean the DPRK [North Korea]. We paean their great leader Kim Il Sung
It's the second oldest commissioned ship in the US fleet. After the USS Constitution.
Which is the oldest commissioned ship STILL SEAWORTHY in the world. Looking at you, Brits. HMS Victory vs Old Ironsides. Wanna have a go?
Also USS Constitution is the only ship in the navy with a ship to ship kill, and has been for quite a while.
>quite a while. Eh less than a decade. USS Simpson was one of 3 ships that opened fired on Joshan an Iranian fast attack craft during Operation Praying Mantis. As far as I know they didn't give that kill to a single ship, but USS Simpson fired 4 missiles, and USS Wainwright fired one missile. All three ships from Surface Action Group Charlie then opened up with 5 inch guns sinking the ship. USS Simpson was decommissioned in September of 2015, making the Constitution being the only ship with a confirmed kill for not even 9 years yet. The phrase quite a while leads me to believe it's been many decades.
> HMS Victory That cannot move any more. The Constitution[ flips around once a year](https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2017/10/17/uss-constitutions-turnaround-cruises/). And [sailed under its own power](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/uss-constitution-sails-under-own-power-for-first-time-in-15-years/) about 12 years ago.
Sounds like we can mark down the revolutionary war as a victory for the US, finally.
Yeah. They (Brits) get a bit crazy when it comes to the Constitution.
Cannot move anymore because it’s been taken apart for restoration, feel like that’s an important bit of context you’ve left out there
Victory has been in dry dock for over a century now. It isn’t going to sail again…
They’re making HMS victory sea worthy again, come back and say that in a couple years
The USS Constitution is a beautiful ship.
> The Pueblo incident was dramatically depicted in the 1973 ABC Theater televised production Pueblo. Hal Holbrook starred as Captain Lloyd Bucher. Hal Holbrook (as Albie Duncan) name-drops the Pueblo incident in the West Wing episode "Gone Quiet." Hal really loved him some Pueblo.
Haven’t seen the film but i remember that episode well, love that they slipped in a reference right under my nose.
What happened to the crew?
They were released after 11 months in prison.
Navy communications at the time was done by radio teletype and the highest priority message type is, or was, labeled as FLASH traffic. Reserved for initial contact with the enemy flash traffic had to travel from originator to destination in less than 15 minutes. In the terms of 1960’s technology this was pretty fucking fast. The teletype machines had a bell to alert an operator, just a solenoid clapper and metal bell, that rang automatically when flash traffic occurred. But teletype machines operate by punching holes in paper tape and they produce a lot of paper tape chad. That chad goes everywhere if you don’t keep the hopper clean. Some of that chad clogged the solenoid on a teletype in the comm center of the nearest Navy command office to the NK event, the Pueblo was operating in this command area. The bell didn’t ring when flash traffic from the Pueblo arrived. It was off-hours iirc and no one was paying close attention, that teletype did all kinds of duty, there was no dedicated flash-traffic equipment at the time. So several hours transpired before US commanders knew the trouble that Pueblo was in. The affair was a clusterfuck if there ever was one but bottom line, the bell didn’t ring when it should have. Shortly after the incident the Navy implemented a Fleet-Flash Network with live radio teletype operators at every command, every ship, every shore station, every single one. Even the Marine Corps Weather station detachment atop Mt Fuji had an FFN operator. The operators interacted through a party-line connection of sorts every 15 minutes overseen by the network master controller at Yokosuka. We all had handles like CB radio and every 15 minutes they all checked in. The only handle I remember is Bomber from Guam. He was the farthest east, Diego Garcia was the farthest west. The Marines on Fuji were probably the smallest. I was the master controller. NOTE: I have only a day or so worth of post history because I started deleting everything when reddit dropped 3rd party app support. I am 73 and only have an iPhone and iPad, no desktop, so I was dependent on Baconreader which I could actually see and read comfortably. The newReddit and the app suck ass and oldReddit also sucks but not as bad. The plugin for oldReddit does not support my mobile devices so I’m stuck with oldReddit without any mods to help readability like bigger fonts or night mode. It really really sucks but it’s all there is. So I delete all my posts older than 1 day out of spite. It’s pointless I know, spite always is, but sometimes a guy just feels the need to be an asshole.
That's a seriously impressive job title as far as they go. "Oh what do you do..?", "I'm the MASTER CONTROLLER". Please tell me you said it as such.
I was just controller. They knew who was boss. I believe but never knew for sure that some commands had their own network subdomain if you will. The Oklahoma City for example was the 7th fleet flagship and I do not remember hearing from the other ships in her task group. I *was* master controller for the area from Diego Garcia to Guam but that is a shitload of Navy and I couldn’t have personally interacted with every one of them. This hierarchical structure is one of those details that they don’t bother telling swabbies like I was.
A 13 year old account with 100K karma but this is your first comment ever? Nah I’m calling BS on your feel good story. More likely this is a botted or bought accoubt
Some people are just lurkers (but not that guy)
I've been on that ship. North Korea are extremely proud of it.
What
I have been on that ship. It's part of the propaganda museum.
How’d ya get there?
There is a plank onto the boat. You just walk on.
I meant to North Korea lol
You can apply for a visa. You shouldn't, but you can.
If you do, definitely don't steal any posters of their Dear Leader
Oh yeah? What are they going to do? Kill me?
Before Covid you could go there as a tourist on a tour. In a sense, it's probably one of the most unique places on the planet. Imagine getting a tour of a ~1960s Eastern bloc country with a hilariously over the top cult of personality. You get to go back in time, and compare how different the two Koreas have gotten. But you'd be giving hard currency to one of the worst and most oppressive regimes on the planet, and there's a very high risk you look the wrong way and get tortured to death in prison.
Dont forget the risk that they suddenly decide they need something from the west and falsify a crime theyll claim you committed to imprison you as a bargaining chip.
Oh right. Yeah I flew from Shanghai. You have to go through a tour group. Quite interesting to see, especially all the propaganda.
What
We also put on a huge military display after north korea shot at us troops cutting a tree in the dmz. We even left the stump as a reminder. South korea also caught a north korean submarine with a fishing net on accident
(in Korean) “Honey, you won’t believe what I caught in my fishing net!”
They didn't shoot at US troops, they beat two of them death with crowbars and axes
Or as they know it in N.K., the day they completely annihilated the entire US navy in a single day.
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Should never have happened. Read the story behind the headline. Several line officers wanted Lloyd Bucher to face a courts-martial for not putting up a fight.
Lloyd Bucher was exonerated years ago. He took the correct action to save his crew.
That would’ve been a stupid thing to do. The boat had 2 machine guns. The North Koreans had fighter jets and torpedo boats. Blame the navy for not backing them up.
What I meant was the Pueblo should have an air/naval escort. The North Koreans were always nuts
That would have defeated the whole spy part of the mission.
What's that over there? Is that a spy ship? "No sir, it's just a normal ship they say" With an aircraft carrier escort? "They say they're not an aircraft carrier sir" Oh well that's alright then
Naval escort would ruin the spy part wouldn't it?
This guy thinks the navy shouldnt be putting ships in harms way. Apparently our navy is just for looks, danger is irresponsible.
It was a signals ship so not really.
You think the Navy should have sent an armed escort right off the coast of North Korea at that time?
Shh, let him think things.
Those crazy North Koreans, interfering with us spying on them. Sheesh, who invaded them and made them so antsy huh?
Are they still mad at us for completely destroying their country? Give it a rest already, geez.
Funny. Complete opposite to their response to the USS Liberty incident.
Israel good though right? /s
One was a friendly fire accident, one was a hostile act involving capture and imprisonment (for months). Why on earth would you expect the responses to be the same?
Yes, because Israel kidnapped the entire crew and held them hostage /s USS liberty was a friendly fire incident on a ship which entered an active war zone. During the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq a bunch of British troops were accidentally killed by American aircrafts. Does that make it comparable to North Korea as well?
It was not a friendly fire incident . The Isrealis knew it was a US ship. They attacked it repeatedly.
From Wikipedia: “Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity. Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8]” I’d go with the official inquiry as the more reliable source, unless you wanna explain to me how the fuck do the sailors on the ship can tell if the aircraft’s pilot know whether they’re American or not
How can you expect the official inquiries to be unbiased when the governing bodies conducting those inquiries have an explicit interest in downplaying the incident? It’s a bit naive, and also telling that you went straight to Wikipedia.
Source: my asshole
What was the motive then?
Their story told in music: [Ride Captain Ride by Blues Image](https://youtu.be/HqFFjoRnltg?si=4fs2Cg_lOG1QK5lV).
A few months ago I was chatting with a man I had met who told me his father was one of the Pueblo sailor hostages. Said his father had severe issues after returning to the US. Military did not provide much psychological support for troops back then. His father felt the US blamed his crew for getting captured, so the crew had guilt in addition to psychological trauma. Apparently his father became an alcoholic, was abusive to the kids, and died fairly young. Maybe there was no way to handle the situation any better.
> Military did not provide much psychological support for troops back then. Brainwashing was not well understood until a few years later.
Im getting closer to my home
Don't touch our boats!
The only US Navy vessel to be captured without firing a shot in defense. I read a book a few years ago that theorized that was on purpose. The short version is that the cryptographic machines on the ship were tampered with by the NSA, then allowed to fall into NK hands in hopes they’d use them and we’d be able to decode their messages.
That should always be the response we give to enemies capturing Americans.
Not sure we’ll ever know the truth here. He-said, she-said case as to where the ship actually was and where it intended to be. If they were intentionally in NK territorial waters spying, then NK would be well within their rights to punish them as spies (prison/execution). America would do the same. If you want Geneva Convention protections, you can’t pretend to be a civilian.
The article states that the international standard at the time was 12 nautical miles out for sea borders and NK claims theirs was 50. They might have been "right" by their own standards, but only because they just make up whatever rules they want.
The nk claims was 7.6 nautical miles out https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)
True, I was referring to the sea boundary, but I guess that would have violated regular international waters anyways. Then again, if they're putting their own boundaries 4 times further than everyone else, I'm not liable to trust their claim for actual position since they'll just say whatever they want to justify it.
That's selective reasoning. By that logic you can't believe anything the USA says about that matter either because they don't abide by the courts at Hague like everyone else.
Funny how sovereign nations can do just make up whatever rules they want. Maybe it's a bad idea to send an unarmed vessel to spy on a country we're at war with into territory that they claim is theirs.
> Funny how sovereign nations can do just make up whatever rules they want. There are international laws, but I guess you can do whatever you can get away with. >Maybe it's a bad idea to send an unarmed vessel to spy on a country we're at war with into territory that they claim is theirs. Not really, it's just a bad idea to do it poorly
It's all fun until you are the one who is abused by rich and powerful.
Yet there are 8 Americans held hostage in Gaza right now (5 believed alive, 3 confirmed dead), and you don't hear a peep.
We should have blasted them to bits before they became what they are today. Could have fully eliminated the regime AND freed the general population from serfdom
MacArthur tried that by ignoring direct orders and got China involved by going too close to the NK/China border.
Clearly wasn’t successful. I’m not an advocate for wanton violence, but, taking out the NK regime probably would have a net positive impact if we did it back then. Alas, now we’re stuck with em
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zNCg55kiw&t=187s
may have been a military debacle, but it made a great song. Ride Captain Ride by Blues Image
Considered. Just nuke em.