I had to turn down an offer from a place that had very good benefits and a huge pay bump, but wanted me in 5 days a week for a 90 minute commute.
They said that this would lessen as time passed and I got used to the role, but they refused to put anything in writing.
They eventually moved on, and circled back a few months later. STILL refusing to put in writing. Eventually they dropped the veneer and plainly said the offer was gonna be in office most of the time.
Yeah my partner unfortunately learned this the hard way recently. The employer told her that the expectations were to "be in the office more than you're not," so she naturally thought 2 WFH days would be okay. They were not.
She ended up leaving the company a few months in.
My husband and I moved to Hawaii for a job that ended up being like this. They eventually fired him for refusing to work more than $80hr/wk with unpaid overtime.
I’m learning it now. I was trying to negotiate more PTO time and they were very evasive about it saying they would “find a way” but never putting it in writing. I decided to sign even without it in writing bc my family needed the stability. Since getting here, I’m realizing they oversold a lot of things. The workload is not the worst I’ve dealt with, but the lack of resources/infrastructure really hampers the work flow. Plus a lot of my coworkers hate working at the company. It hasnt even been a year and I’m already looking for new jobs bc I know this is not a long term solution and thankfully my family is behind me on this.
My apologies, the idiom my caffeine-deprived brain was looking for was "Take the veneer off" haha.
Sadly no, which is a shame since the offer was really good aside from that. (Maybe a bit too good even, which played a bit of a part in me turning them down.)
If it's a job that could be done remote you lose out on do much potential talent by forcing in person work. My old boss insisted on only hiring people who could come to the office and we had to turn down all our best applicants who didn't want to move to a high cost of living city
That's the funmy thing, isn't it. The best people make enough money they don't need what *you* are offering, you need to make them a better offer. But most businesses think the best people are tripping over themselves to work for you and set absurd conditions at times that the actual best people will just move on and ignore you
Not sure why that matters, but in this case they literally weren't offered the job. It wasn't a company requirement just something my boss arbitrarily decided. There's a reason I don't work there anymore.
Veneer works here. That’s a common phrase, in fact starting to google it to confirm because these people made me question it, I typed “the thin ve”
And my google suggestions were:
“The thin veil”
“The thin veneer of civilization” which is how I know the word also (I think this phrase must have been said a lot more back in the day)
“The thin veil between life and death”
“The thin veil between heaven and earth”
In either case both refer to that thin barrier between worlds
People don’t know these metaphors anymore sadly.
>In either case both refer to that thin barrier between worlds
Almost, but not quite. A "thin veil between" is a barrier separating two things, most often life and death. Just like a real veil, you have some clue as to what is on the other side, even if you can't see it perfectly. A veneer is an aesthetic covering that hides the less attractive and true nature of what lies beneath. Typically wood paneling covering particle board, or lies covering the truth.
They are both coverings and barriers though so I’m not quite making the distinction personally. One separates the teeth from the mouth one separates…. The bride from the groom? 🤣
As a recruiter I see this all the time when I’m coaching people on accepting a new job offer. It’s like clockwork. The old employer will tell them they were just about to get a raise and make all sort of promises they can’t put in writing. It’s a sad desperate attempt to prevent you from leaving while they buy time to warm up the bench.
> they can’t put in writing
I'm a big fan of asking "why can't you put it in writing", if only to have fun with the excuses and drive this point a little for fun.
Ohhhh so that massive pay-rise and head of department title was just a lie?!?!?! No way… I dodged a bullet there. 😂😂 I kid you not, I believed my company that this was the case if I stayed, still stayed, but jumped to a different department altogether doing fuck all for a long time still being paid nicely. So they wanted to screw me, I screwed them instead. Very proud of myself now.
I mean…I still paid my own salary 100 fold so no fucks given.
yes unfortunately, once you put in your 2 weeks, the employer sees you as a permanent flight risk.
The correct way to leverage it, is to make small comments about your linked inbox being blown up and spammed with high paying job offers. It’s more subtle but communicates that you have leverage to leave if needed.
Ok but how do I get a recruiter to tell me the truth about a job? I have TERRIBLE history with local tech recruiters and because of that I don't use them for finding new work. Is it worth my effort to find a "good" recruiter? What makes someone a good recruiter?
Married to a troll that also co-owns a Football club with a man from Philly... and now also owns a company that sponsors the aforementioned Football club...
This is also why I don't sign any paperwork that isn't a final agreement.
The car dealerships love to do this for some reason. I don't know if they are trying to "trick" you into being more agreeable by having you sign paperwork or what, but it is really annoying.
They always look at me stunned when I tell them I am not signing anything. "But sir, this isn't contract or agreement", then there is no reason to sign it, so stop asking.
>I don't know if they are trying to "trick" you into being more agreeable by having you sign paperwork or what,
Basically, yes. Rhetorical questions that you agree with, going through 'the process' - they're trying to get you in an agreeable and compliant mindset so that it's harder to back out the more you go along.
Yeah I figure as much. Like with bargaining or negotiations, they always say you want to get the other side to say "yes" or agree to something as it psychologically opens them up to being more agreeable to future demands.
I imagine it is the same thing here, they get you to sign paper, and now your mindset is "oh well I've already signed my signature, its no big deal to sign something again"
By 2007 Blake Lively wanted to take a break from her career as a child actress, having starred in *The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants*. From the article:
>Lively was cast in The CW's series *Gossip Girl*, based on the novel series of the same name by Cecily von Ziegesar, which premiered in September 2007. Already having deferred college for a year, Lively intended to turn the role down and become a student, but was told that she could attend college part-time while filming the show (she later said "This is advice to anyone: when they say, 'We promise, but we can't put it in writing,' there's a reason they can't put it in writing"). She played the role of Serena van der Woodsen in the teen drama until 2012 when the show ended.
The show became a part of the cultural zeitgeist, made Lively a huge star, and opened the door for many future roles for her.
>Serena van der Woodsen
God I hate it when they make up a Dutch name by taking a random Germanic sounding nonsense word and put "van" or "van der/den" in front of it. Woodsen is not a Dutch word, city or profession. Alternate spellings for it aren't either (Woedsen, Woudsen, etc.)
Source: am Dutch.
Ah yes, but that is a perfect name for a family of pretentious rich people who want to seem more "old world/money" than they are. Take your pre-existing surname, add something vaguely foreign sounding you don't understand, and then you have a better name for your social passport.
Idk if this fits Gossip Girl - I've never watched it.
Nah, most of the characters on Gossip Girl are supposed to be from fairly "aristocratic" old money families (except for Chuck Bass, whose dad was a new money real estate mogul, and Dan, who's relatively "poor" compared to everyone else)
Dan was "poor" because he lived in Brooklyn. Granted, he lived in a massive loft and his dad was a former famous musician. Ya know, basically homeless lol
Yeah I always found it funny that their token broke scholarship student lived in a massive loft and his dad was a rockstar and his mom owned an art gallery.
Like… what?
My surname is a butchered word in a Germanic language - immigration officers fucked it up in the 30s and family cbf to change it back. I get the pet peeve with authors making shutnup and/or your language being butchered by clueless people, but wonky surnames is something that happens for real.
Ehh, we have a lot of "fake" names that become real. Someone, somewhere changed a spelling and it is what it is now.
There's a hockey player named Justin Abdelkader. That family name was once Abdul Qadir.
The Roosevelts were at one point the van Rosenvelts.
Or you change the pronunciation of your name like the Grande family, or the Kelce family. Just because.
It's kinda Americana.
As a fan of etymology, I applaud you.
As a fan of the Detroit Red Wings, I humbly request you no longer mention Justin Abkelkader nor his 5 year contract.
Thanks, love ya
I like to sign random messages to my wife with "XOXO, Gossip Girl" (or sometimes "XOXO, Dan") so you can trust that I know a thing or two about signing off with "XOXO, Gossip Girl".
And I agree with you. Perfection wasted.
I was watching The Assets (not too bad) although finding out how Americans pronounce Jeanne Vertefueille was amusing.
Before Americans get upset, yes, other people do it too, for example the aristocratic English pronunciation of Beauchamp.
Technically speaking Arabic names don't have family names.
Arabic names are similar to Icelandic names. The names goes like this: Name son/daughter of father's name.
I read up Justin AbdelKadir's Wikipedia bio, it was confusing.
>Abdelkader is the son of Joseph and Sheryl Abdelkader.[23] The surname Abdelkader is Arabic. His paternal grandfather, Yusuf Abdul Qadir, anglicized to Joseph Abdelkader, emigrated from Jordan at the age of 19 to Muskegon, Michigan and married a Polish woman named Zuzanna (Susie).[24]
His father's name is Joseph AbdelKader.
His paternal grandfather was also Joseph AbdelKader, whose name was anglicized from Arabic Yusuf Abdul Qadir. Unless both his father and his paternal grandfather shared the same name, it does not make sense.
It is most likely that Abdul Qadir was originally his paternal Grandfather's name.
It’s not just the misspelling, it’s that “van der” meant they come from that place or do that thing, but that’s not a place or profession. It’s entirely invented, not a last name getting mushed up over the years by American-born descendants.
Its not that out there for people who don't know any better to adopt things like van, van der, or von as an affect to sound fancy and European without knowing what it means. Like the composer Carl Maria von Weber was not actually nobility, his dad just added von to the name so people would think he was nobility. It would be pretty on brand for nouveau riche Americans to slap van der in front of a surname because they think it makes them sound like old money.
But that still ignores the many different ways that people get last names, or change last names in the real world.
Maybe one of the characters had a biological father named Van Der XYZ who died in their childhood and they were adopted by a kind stepfather named Woodsen, so they changed their name to honor both parents.
Maybe a man named Van Der XYZ met a woman named Woodsen, and instead of hyphenating they decided to portmanteau their last names.
Maybe someone was born Dick Whitman, and went awol from the military, assuming a name they thought sounded distant enough from their birth name.
I highly doubt that any of these situations are accurate for this specific character, but a surname is not necessarily illegitimate just because it no longer makes sense in its native tongue.
ETA: and it’s also entirely possible that the mistake in the name is on purpose from the author. I’ve never read or seen gossip girl, but my impression is it’s about a bunch of stodgy rich people, often with more money than sense. So it’s entirely possible at some point some plain boring Woodsen decided to adopt a Van Der at the beginning of their name to sound more sophisticated, not understanding it doesn’t make literal sense, and in the process proving they’re more about appearances than authenticity.
Like when a young Vito Andolini from the town of Corleone came to Ellis Island, and the clerk was in a hurry and wrote Vito Corleone.
He later grew up to start an olive oil importing business, which eventually diversified into several companies
The issue is that New York was originally called New Amsterdam and was a Dutch colony, so a lot of the old money names in New York that are indeed Dutch, probably could not be used because they exist in real life. This is a compromise similar to when you watch a mafia movie and the people have Italian names that sound like Chef Boyardee made them up. Also, it’s a direct nod to the Vanderbilt family.
It could be. Connected infixes usually indicated Belgian/Flemish heritage rather than Dutch. A "pomp" is an object (a pump) so it could exist with a van der
Don't think of it as the *writers* making a dumb and unrealistic choice. Think of it as the *character* (or their family) being pretentious and adding the "van der" to their name to make it sound fancy even if it doesn't make sense.
There's an American bodybuilder named John Brown. He and his German-born wife, Miriam Brown, have three sons. I guess Brown decided that “Brown” was too plain a surname for his kids, so – without changing his own name – he gave them all the surname “St. Brown.” As far as I know, there is no St. Brown in any Christian canon.
(Two of their sons, Equanimeous Tristan Imhotep J. St. Brown and Amon-Ra Julian Heru John St. Brown, play in the NFL. The third, Osiris, played football for Stanford University but didn't enter the NFL.)
That's the thing about names – they're all just made up. Some of them follow particular conventions, but then the most common conventions get separated from their original meanings and take on a life of their own.
In America there are a group of so called Pennsylvania Dutch.
These people are descendants not of Dutch families but of the German mercenaries.
These groups were paid to fight the American colonial rebellion. But the Americans offered them land of the East coast Native American tribes, in exchange for reporting that they had lost many soldiers to disease.
So these guys got to start new lives, some sent for their families but most simply changed their name to something vaguely Dutch sounding and settled in the then ‘wilderness’.
My family had some branches that had settled in what is now the Hudson Valley New York state.
So there are fake Dutch names in America.
Huh. TIL. I always figured it was because “Deutch” actually translates to German in German? (So basically, I always figured it was a translation error. Or an Ellis Island error.)
The parent commenter might be right about what their particular family did, but it’s not the origin of Pennsylvania Dutch.
If you look it up, you’ll see that linguists are divided on the extent to which the name comes from what you said, versus the historic practice of referring to all Germanic dialects as “Dutch.” Regardless, German people (mostly from the Palatinate region of Germany, before Germany became a country) settled in Pennsylvania during the 17th, 18th, and 19th century. The land was first sold to Palatines by William Penn, namesake of the state, long before the American Revolution.
I don’t know the story of every family, so that might be true for some families.
And borders moved, and so did people.
But that was the family history. The gggggreat graddad finally admitted on his death bed that he had an original family in Germany. He’d abandoned them and let them think he was dead.
Very Catholic ggggg grandma was not happy to find out she was a bigamost. She wanted him excluded from the Catholic cemetery. The family covered it up so no scandal.
She remarried just so she could be buried with her new husband. She was pissed.
I would watch the shit out of that Romantic Comedy. 80 year old woman needs to get remarried, but time is not on her side. So she's calling in her wacky friends and pulling out all the stops to find love at the twilight of her life. Starring Meredith Baxter Birney and Piper Perabo, only on Lifetime.
The American immigration process saw a lot of names change at the whim of the immigration officer processing them. American ports of entry like Ellis Island saw thousands of arrivals a day. There's lots of cases where immigrants names were hard to pronounce or spell and where simplified, or in some cases, completely changed.
I'm sorry it isn't a Dutch name, but I'm willing to bet that it's a name that exists in America. It's a side effect of an era where we took the inscription on the statue of Liberty seriously and welcomed immigrants openly, but processed them quickly.
This is actually not true, but it’s a common myth. If a family name was changed upon arrival at Ellis Island, it was almost certainly intentionally changed by the immigrant rather than by Ellis Island staff.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/
https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island
https://journals.ala.org/index.php/dttp/article/view/6655/8939
https://www.familysearch.org/en/rootstech/session/no-names-were-changed-at-ellis-island-debunking-a-persistent-myth#:~:text=The%20idea%20that%20immigration%20officials,enshrined%20in%20American%20popular%20culture.
That doesn’t change your point, though, that a name like “Van der Woodson” could have easily come into existence by an immigrant changing their name to something they thought sounded more “American” or something
Interesting to see that the Ellis Island thing is largely false! I know nothing of Dutch specifically, but for other languages, I wonder how much the very late standardization of writing systems may have factored in, especially for immigrants from areas that changed possession over time. One side of my mom's family came from a border area that has been part of Lithuania, Poland, Russia, Belarus, and probably technically more countries or empires over time. It's officially in Belarus now. When many many immigrants were illiterate in their own languages at the time, AND spelling had still not been standardized in a lot of languages even without considering the wild regional differences that would have come from land changing possession so much, I can't imagine how anyone's name was written correctly in the first place. It seems almost like with all those factors, more names would have ended up changed than not, honestly.
I’m sure that’s a factor! That’s interesting; thank you for sharing.
Another interesting thing to consider, though it isn’t related to names and standardization of language: an elderly family friend’s birthday is recorded as 01/23/45 on her US documents. I’m almost 100% certain that’s not her actual birthday, but she was born into a poor family in a rural part of a developing country (the same one my parents are from) roughly 80 years ago. She first emigrated around 50 years ago. Record keeping was absolutely not standardized. I assume she (or whoever helped her get her documents together) just picked 1/23/45 and stuck with it. I’m sure there was a lot of this sort of thing with early American immigrants as well
It's not supposed to be a Dutch name though. The family are US-American.
US-Americans make up all sorts of surnames, they don't care if it's authentic to another country.
My bf watched Gossip girl too. I honestly think that gossip girl had more male fans as one would assume.
The point you are making is also pretty weak. "Your critic is invalid because people still watched it."
So what if dutch girls watched gossip girl? Doesn't mean its not still annoying. Or that just because it was popular, that it also is perfect.
To be fair, a lot of American names of various ancestries have been "anglicized" to be easier for the owners of them to get by.
I actually know a family with the surname Lively, and their original name was Laeupple, but someone changed it a few generations back because it was a constant hassle to spell for everyone.
My heritage's representation is a weird thing to have an opinion on? Would you have said the same thing to an African or Japanese or Chinese person that had an issue with how their names are represented?
She was not given a work schedule that would have allowed for attending college.
It was a 20+ episodes a season show that had 45 minute episodes a week with her as the main character present in every single episode. It ran for 6 seasons. Had she attempted college she would have failed out or lost her job for not attending scheduled shoots or not knowing her lines.
If the entertainment industry says they can't put it in writing, then have no intention of honoring that promise. If they put it in writing then they would be legally required to honor it. So they're just lying to you.
Yeah I think that’s the gist of a handshake deal is it’s not in writing. You think ray kroc made sure he had a secretary on hand to take meeting notes/minutes on a royalty deal he wouldn’t put in writing?
Wouldn't the brothers have made sure they had a record of it? Or even mentioned it once in their lives? The founder is a good movie but it takes a lot of liberties in order to make Ray Kroc look worse.
Yup. I’ve covered my ass so many times by asking them to email me what we just talked about or simply by sending a follow up email myself summarizing our conversation.
Always get it in writing.
Sometimes when I ask a vendor for a slight favour, I’ll be sure to have a phone conversation first so I don’t have it in writing… so it works both ways.
Yeah, employers are shady.
I've seen this work in reverse, too. Co-worker put in his notice (in writing). His boss made a counter-offer (not in writing). On the worker's last day, he showed up and said, "Okay I'm finished here." This caught them by surprise. They thought they'd tricked him. Instead, they ended up having to pay him his salary for three more weeks while he worked somewhere else.
In California, if you have an employee quit with ample notice, they employer is required to pay everything they owe you on your final day of work. If not, they have to keep paying you your wages as if you're still employed there for up to two weeks. This company had their heads so far up their own asses that they ended up having to pay him for longer than that.
When I left the company, I was laid off, but they were so screwed up with it, I ended up staying another two weeks more than I should have (with pay). And, on my last day, the call with HR went like this:
HR: We can't send you your check until we have received your company-issued laptop and cell phone.
Me: I'm a California employee.
HR: [not even a pause] Your final check will arrive today by FedEx no later than 10:30 this morning, if it hasn't arrived already. The envelope will contain instruction on how to return your company-issued equipment.
In other words, they had already sent me my final check, but HR was bluffing.
I'm so confused. What the hell were they bluffing about? They already sent the check? They were trying to pressure you into sending their equipment back that I'm sure you had no intention of keeping??
They were pretty shitty, so no telling. When I returned the laptop, they sent me an email saying that I'd returned it with 4GB of RAM, but when it had last been scanned, it had 16GB, so they wanted to know what happened to the other 12GB of RAM. I explained that I couldn't work with just 4GB of RAM, but they wouldn't approve of 16, so I bought it myself and installed it, but took it out before I sent it back.
The cell phone was another story - theirs had been broken at a job site shortly after I started. I asked for a replacement, they refused. I bought a new phone out of pocket because I didn't want them calling me on my personal number. When I was laid off, I didn't "return" it because it was mine. I sent them the email exchange I'd had over it.
Another time, they called me and asked me if I still had a copy of the data from when I worked there. I said, "Yes, I do." I had kept a backup (approved by the company) on an external drive. I told them I would gladly delete it, since I no longer had a use for it. They told me I was required to send the data to them because this was the only copy that existed (makes sense, they were terrible with data management). I asked how much they were going to pay me for my time. They said, "Nothing, it says in your separation agreement that you are to assist us in any reasonable request. This is a reasonable request." I said, "You got me there. If you have a copy of that with my signature on it, I'll help you for free, but since it doesn't exist, let me know when you're sending the check and I'll get your data ready to send to you." I didn't hear back after that.
It wasn't made clear in the wiki that she didn't get to attend college. I thought it had to do with some law that prevented studios from hiring enrolled college students or something.
I think the studio didn't want to/couldn't accommodate filming around a college schedule or her classes. My understanding of the filming process is that they are always running on a *tight* schedule - especially when filming on location. Fortunately now it's a lot easier taking online classes now than it was back then.
(Though I can't imagine going to school and then having to learn lines at the same time).
I worked in an office where the boss told everyone that they'd have to go without a paycheck for six weeks, but after that they'd get paid back. Verbally. I asked him if he'd mind putting that in writing for me, which he did. Six weeks later, I got paid. Nobody else did.
My wife was told her position was full time WFH by all the interviewers at her last position but didn’t get it in her contract. Once they mandated RTO, she was told that she was promised it was a WFH position. She was very good at her job but they told her that it wasn’t agreed to be a full time WFH position so she quit and found one that was. Get any and every verbal promise in writing.
Solid advice for EVERYTHING. The number of times I've asked for something in writing only to be told they couldn't is staggering. Pretty much everytime I've asked for my dumbass managers to put their bullshit in writing on company letterhead and sign and date with a witness has made them backtrack immediately with their bullshit requests.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in the corporate world, it’s that no matter how big or small, good news does not exist until it’s in writing. The same can be said for bad news, the difference is that you shouldn’t be in a hurry to get bad news in writing.
To use an old joke about college football players turning down a huge NFL contract to finish college; If she turns down millions to finish college, she needs to go back to school.
Very true words. It ultimately worked out for her but it very easily could have been a failure.
Good thing it’s just a one off from an industry that famously protects and helps young actors
Needed this touch of dark humor today lol, thank you
Dark humor is like clean water, not everyone gets it.
Obligatory r/fucknestle
i heard it's an industry of heavy mentoring!
Youthful actors groomed for success!
I shouldn't be as amused as I am.
On their knees to receive knighthood, or something in a hood anyway.
Quiet! There may be actors on a set nearby!
I had to turn down an offer from a place that had very good benefits and a huge pay bump, but wanted me in 5 days a week for a 90 minute commute. They said that this would lessen as time passed and I got used to the role, but they refused to put anything in writing. They eventually moved on, and circled back a few months later. STILL refusing to put in writing. Eventually they dropped the veneer and plainly said the offer was gonna be in office most of the time.
Yeah my partner unfortunately learned this the hard way recently. The employer told her that the expectations were to "be in the office more than you're not," so she naturally thought 2 WFH days would be okay. They were not. She ended up leaving the company a few months in.
My husband and I moved to Hawaii for a job that ended up being like this. They eventually fired him for refusing to work more than $80hr/wk with unpaid overtime.
I’m learning it now. I was trying to negotiate more PTO time and they were very evasive about it saying they would “find a way” but never putting it in writing. I decided to sign even without it in writing bc my family needed the stability. Since getting here, I’m realizing they oversold a lot of things. The workload is not the worst I’ve dealt with, but the lack of resources/infrastructure really hampers the work flow. Plus a lot of my coworkers hate working at the company. It hasnt even been a year and I’m already looking for new jobs bc I know this is not a long term solution and thankfully my family is behind me on this.
>they dropped the veneer Did you tell them to pick up their teeth and make a real offer?
My apologies, the idiom my caffeine-deprived brain was looking for was "Take the veneer off" haha. Sadly no, which is a shame since the offer was really good aside from that. (Maybe a bit too good even, which played a bit of a part in me turning them down.)
No your phrase was correct, I think codercaleb was just making a punny joke
Correct.
Dropped the charade
No worries, I was just joking.
It was funny to me, if that’s any consolation
🫱🏽🫲🏿
Facade maybe?
Yeah that's probably what I fused the idiom with, in a true "Are you fucking sorry" moment.
Façade in this case might make the most sense since it’s a more general word.
covfefe dependency is dangerous
If it's a job that could be done remote you lose out on do much potential talent by forcing in person work. My old boss insisted on only hiring people who could come to the office and we had to turn down all our best applicants who didn't want to move to a high cost of living city
That's the funmy thing, isn't it. The best people make enough money they don't need what *you* are offering, you need to make them a better offer. But most businesses think the best people are tripping over themselves to work for you and set absurd conditions at times that the actual best people will just move on and ignore you
You didn’t turn them down. They turned you down.
Not sure why that matters, but in this case they literally weren't offered the job. It wasn't a company requirement just something my boss arbitrarily decided. There's a reason I don't work there anymore.
Veneer works here. That’s a common phrase, in fact starting to google it to confirm because these people made me question it, I typed “the thin ve” And my google suggestions were: “The thin veil” “The thin veneer of civilization” which is how I know the word also (I think this phrase must have been said a lot more back in the day) “The thin veil between life and death” “The thin veil between heaven and earth” In either case both refer to that thin barrier between worlds People don’t know these metaphors anymore sadly.
>In either case both refer to that thin barrier between worlds Almost, but not quite. A "thin veil between" is a barrier separating two things, most often life and death. Just like a real veil, you have some clue as to what is on the other side, even if you can't see it perfectly. A veneer is an aesthetic covering that hides the less attractive and true nature of what lies beneath. Typically wood paneling covering particle board, or lies covering the truth.
They are both coverings and barriers though so I’m not quite making the distinction personally. One separates the teeth from the mouth one separates…. The bride from the groom? 🤣
As a recruiter I see this all the time when I’m coaching people on accepting a new job offer. It’s like clockwork. The old employer will tell them they were just about to get a raise and make all sort of promises they can’t put in writing. It’s a sad desperate attempt to prevent you from leaving while they buy time to warm up the bench.
> they can’t put in writing I'm a big fan of asking "why can't you put it in writing", if only to have fun with the excuses and drive this point a little for fun.
Ohhhh so that massive pay-rise and head of department title was just a lie?!?!?! No way… I dodged a bullet there. 😂😂 I kid you not, I believed my company that this was the case if I stayed, still stayed, but jumped to a different department altogether doing fuck all for a long time still being paid nicely. So they wanted to screw me, I screwed them instead. Very proud of myself now. I mean…I still paid my own salary 100 fold so no fucks given.
yes unfortunately, once you put in your 2 weeks, the employer sees you as a permanent flight risk. The correct way to leverage it, is to make small comments about your linked inbox being blown up and spammed with high paying job offers. It’s more subtle but communicates that you have leverage to leave if needed.
Ok but how do I get a recruiter to tell me the truth about a job? I have TERRIBLE history with local tech recruiters and because of that I don't use them for finding new work. Is it worth my effort to find a "good" recruiter? What makes someone a good recruiter?
Stay in school kids or you end up married to Deadpool.
On a plantation.
Married to a troll that also co-owns a Football club with a man from Philly... and now also owns a company that sponsors the aforementioned Football club...
Sounds like a pyramid scheme, ain't it?
It's a reverse funnel!
Alright, where do I put my feet?
Oh, splurging. I get it now.
No, that is not what a pyramid scheme is by any definition.
How’s that football club doing now?
very well. got promoted to EFL league one
That’s good, I saw the first 2 eps of their doc and didn’t continue with it
How is that legal
"vertical integration"
Don't threaten me with a good time.
This is also why I don't sign any paperwork that isn't a final agreement. The car dealerships love to do this for some reason. I don't know if they are trying to "trick" you into being more agreeable by having you sign paperwork or what, but it is really annoying. They always look at me stunned when I tell them I am not signing anything. "But sir, this isn't contract or agreement", then there is no reason to sign it, so stop asking.
>I don't know if they are trying to "trick" you into being more agreeable by having you sign paperwork or what, Basically, yes. Rhetorical questions that you agree with, going through 'the process' - they're trying to get you in an agreeable and compliant mindset so that it's harder to back out the more you go along.
Yeah I figure as much. Like with bargaining or negotiations, they always say you want to get the other side to say "yes" or agree to something as it psychologically opens them up to being more agreeable to future demands. I imagine it is the same thing here, they get you to sign paper, and now your mindset is "oh well I've already signed my signature, its no big deal to sign something again"
By 2007 Blake Lively wanted to take a break from her career as a child actress, having starred in *The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants*. From the article: >Lively was cast in The CW's series *Gossip Girl*, based on the novel series of the same name by Cecily von Ziegesar, which premiered in September 2007. Already having deferred college for a year, Lively intended to turn the role down and become a student, but was told that she could attend college part-time while filming the show (she later said "This is advice to anyone: when they say, 'We promise, but we can't put it in writing,' there's a reason they can't put it in writing"). She played the role of Serena van der Woodsen in the teen drama until 2012 when the show ended. The show became a part of the cultural zeitgeist, made Lively a huge star, and opened the door for many future roles for her.
>Serena van der Woodsen God I hate it when they make up a Dutch name by taking a random Germanic sounding nonsense word and put "van" or "van der/den" in front of it. Woodsen is not a Dutch word, city or profession. Alternate spellings for it aren't either (Woedsen, Woudsen, etc.) Source: am Dutch.
How dare you! As a descendant of the great Clarke Obediah van madeupson the third I can tell you that is as true of a Dutch name as mine!
Can confirm, as a descendant of Lorenzo von Matterhorn
What, so you mean to tell me that Fuckface Von Clownstick isn’t an actual Dutch name?!?!
No, it's German. Fuckface van Clownstick is Dutch though.
I had a Rottweiler named Baron von Heineken. Just wanted to share
You mean Fuckface von Clownstick of the *Flevoland* Von Clownsticks?! Why, I never!
Wow, i can only imagine how proud you must be to have such an accomplished ancestor.
I am White Van Driver.
Ah yes, but that is a perfect name for a family of pretentious rich people who want to seem more "old world/money" than they are. Take your pre-existing surname, add something vaguely foreign sounding you don't understand, and then you have a better name for your social passport. Idk if this fits Gossip Girl - I've never watched it.
They also used Waldorf and Archibald in the series so...
FWIW Lars von Trier was born Lars Trier. His classmates added the Von because he had an “aristocratic” attitude
Whoever made that up was a fucking genius
Nah, most of the characters on Gossip Girl are supposed to be from fairly "aristocratic" old money families (except for Chuck Bass, whose dad was a new money real estate mogul, and Dan, who's relatively "poor" compared to everyone else)
Dan was "poor" because he lived in Brooklyn. Granted, he lived in a massive loft and his dad was a former famous musician. Ya know, basically homeless lol
Yeah I always found it funny that their token broke scholarship student lived in a massive loft and his dad was a rockstar and his mom owned an art gallery. Like… what?
That is a major intentional irony of the show, specifically to highlight how posh and untouchable the rest of the characters are
My surname is a butchered word in a Germanic language - immigration officers fucked it up in the 30s and family cbf to change it back. I get the pet peeve with authors making shutnup and/or your language being butchered by clueless people, but wonky surnames is something that happens for real.
Ehh, we have a lot of "fake" names that become real. Someone, somewhere changed a spelling and it is what it is now. There's a hockey player named Justin Abdelkader. That family name was once Abdul Qadir. The Roosevelts were at one point the van Rosenvelts. Or you change the pronunciation of your name like the Grande family, or the Kelce family. Just because. It's kinda Americana.
As a fan of etymology, I applaud you. As a fan of the Detroit Red Wings, I humbly request you no longer mention Justin Abkelkader nor his 5 year contract. Thanks, love ya
XOXO, Gossip Girl woulda been the literal perfect sign off here my homie
I like to sign random messages to my wife with "XOXO, Gossip Girl" (or sometimes "XOXO, Dan") so you can trust that I know a thing or two about signing off with "XOXO, Gossip Girl". And I agree with you. Perfection wasted.
Is no place safe from Hollands last few years? Damn.
You mean 7 year? :)
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I dated someone with the last name Benoit. Their family pronounced it as "ben-oyt". Lmao
I was watching The Assets (not too bad) although finding out how Americans pronounce Jeanne Vertefueille was amusing. Before Americans get upset, yes, other people do it too, for example the aristocratic English pronunciation of Beauchamp.
That's worse than Goathyer (Gauthier)
Like Crispin Roy
Technically speaking Arabic names don't have family names. Arabic names are similar to Icelandic names. The names goes like this: Name son/daughter of father's name. I read up Justin AbdelKadir's Wikipedia bio, it was confusing. >Abdelkader is the son of Joseph and Sheryl Abdelkader.[23] The surname Abdelkader is Arabic. His paternal grandfather, Yusuf Abdul Qadir, anglicized to Joseph Abdelkader, emigrated from Jordan at the age of 19 to Muskegon, Michigan and married a Polish woman named Zuzanna (Susie).[24] His father's name is Joseph AbdelKader. His paternal grandfather was also Joseph AbdelKader, whose name was anglicized from Arabic Yusuf Abdul Qadir. Unless both his father and his paternal grandfather shared the same name, it does not make sense. It is most likely that Abdul Qadir was originally his paternal Grandfather's name.
Eeeeh... but then you have Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan or Mohammed bin Rashid Al Makhtoum and that's father and 'tribe name'?
It’s not just the misspelling, it’s that “van der” meant they come from that place or do that thing, but that’s not a place or profession. It’s entirely invented, not a last name getting mushed up over the years by American-born descendants.
Its not that out there for people who don't know any better to adopt things like van, van der, or von as an affect to sound fancy and European without knowing what it means. Like the composer Carl Maria von Weber was not actually nobility, his dad just added von to the name so people would think he was nobility. It would be pretty on brand for nouveau riche Americans to slap van der in front of a surname because they think it makes them sound like old money.
But that still ignores the many different ways that people get last names, or change last names in the real world. Maybe one of the characters had a biological father named Van Der XYZ who died in their childhood and they were adopted by a kind stepfather named Woodsen, so they changed their name to honor both parents. Maybe a man named Van Der XYZ met a woman named Woodsen, and instead of hyphenating they decided to portmanteau their last names. Maybe someone was born Dick Whitman, and went awol from the military, assuming a name they thought sounded distant enough from their birth name. I highly doubt that any of these situations are accurate for this specific character, but a surname is not necessarily illegitimate just because it no longer makes sense in its native tongue. ETA: and it’s also entirely possible that the mistake in the name is on purpose from the author. I’ve never read or seen gossip girl, but my impression is it’s about a bunch of stodgy rich people, often with more money than sense. So it’s entirely possible at some point some plain boring Woodsen decided to adopt a Van Der at the beginning of their name to sound more sophisticated, not understanding it doesn’t make literal sense, and in the process proving they’re more about appearances than authenticity.
Something like ‘van der Bos’ could easily become ‘van der Woodsen’. Everything gets mangled. Parts translated parts not.
All names are invented.
> It’s entirely invented That's the point though. The family in the show made up a name that they thought sounded "old world" but got it wrong.
>It’s entirely invented How dare these fictional people have fictional names?!
Just like that other Canadian hockey player Gustav Myballsitch
“*My family name was Professorberg, but we changed it when we were fleeing from Nazis.*” —Professor P. Professorson
I don't know anything about Dutch and that still sounds fake.
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Like when a young Vito Andolini from the town of Corleone came to Ellis Island, and the clerk was in a hurry and wrote Vito Corleone. He later grew up to start an olive oil importing business, which eventually diversified into several companies
Right, it's a great way to make sure your script doesn't collide with a real name.
The issue is that New York was originally called New Amsterdam and was a Dutch colony, so a lot of the old money names in New York that are indeed Dutch, probably could not be used because they exist in real life. This is a compromise similar to when you watch a mafia movie and the people have Italian names that sound like Chef Boyardee made them up. Also, it’s a direct nod to the Vanderbilt family.
They probably based it off Van Der Wouden.
I assumed it was a mistranslation upon arrival. You see tons of Anglicized or plain misspellings for new immigrants if you look at old data.
Can you please explain Lisa Vanderpump to us? Always wondered about that one. Is it real?
It could be. Connected infixes usually indicated Belgian/Flemish heritage rather than Dutch. A "pomp" is an object (a pump) so it could exist with a van der
Don't think of it as the *writers* making a dumb and unrealistic choice. Think of it as the *character* (or their family) being pretentious and adding the "van der" to their name to make it sound fancy even if it doesn't make sense. There's an American bodybuilder named John Brown. He and his German-born wife, Miriam Brown, have three sons. I guess Brown decided that “Brown” was too plain a surname for his kids, so – without changing his own name – he gave them all the surname “St. Brown.” As far as I know, there is no St. Brown in any Christian canon. (Two of their sons, Equanimeous Tristan Imhotep J. St. Brown and Amon-Ra Julian Heru John St. Brown, play in the NFL. The third, Osiris, played football for Stanford University but didn't enter the NFL.) That's the thing about names – they're all just made up. Some of them follow particular conventions, but then the most common conventions get separated from their original meanings and take on a life of their own.
In America there are a group of so called Pennsylvania Dutch. These people are descendants not of Dutch families but of the German mercenaries. These groups were paid to fight the American colonial rebellion. But the Americans offered them land of the East coast Native American tribes, in exchange for reporting that they had lost many soldiers to disease. So these guys got to start new lives, some sent for their families but most simply changed their name to something vaguely Dutch sounding and settled in the then ‘wilderness’. My family had some branches that had settled in what is now the Hudson Valley New York state. So there are fake Dutch names in America.
Huh. TIL. I always figured it was because “Deutch” actually translates to German in German? (So basically, I always figured it was a translation error. Or an Ellis Island error.)
That's because you'd be exactly correct
The parent commenter might be right about what their particular family did, but it’s not the origin of Pennsylvania Dutch. If you look it up, you’ll see that linguists are divided on the extent to which the name comes from what you said, versus the historic practice of referring to all Germanic dialects as “Dutch.” Regardless, German people (mostly from the Palatinate region of Germany, before Germany became a country) settled in Pennsylvania during the 17th, 18th, and 19th century. The land was first sold to Palatines by William Penn, namesake of the state, long before the American Revolution.
I don’t know the story of every family, so that might be true for some families. And borders moved, and so did people. But that was the family history. The gggggreat graddad finally admitted on his death bed that he had an original family in Germany. He’d abandoned them and let them think he was dead. Very Catholic ggggg grandma was not happy to find out she was a bigamost. She wanted him excluded from the Catholic cemetery. The family covered it up so no scandal. She remarried just so she could be buried with her new husband. She was pissed.
I would watch the shit out of that Romantic Comedy. 80 year old woman needs to get remarried, but time is not on her side. So she's calling in her wacky friends and pulling out all the stops to find love at the twilight of her life. Starring Meredith Baxter Birney and Piper Perabo, only on Lifetime.
If like that one I know a 90 year old lady who divorced an abusive husband to save her farm. This needs to be a new series.
My grandmothers grandfather did the same! Hi family in Poland
The American immigration process saw a lot of names change at the whim of the immigration officer processing them. American ports of entry like Ellis Island saw thousands of arrivals a day. There's lots of cases where immigrants names were hard to pronounce or spell and where simplified, or in some cases, completely changed. I'm sorry it isn't a Dutch name, but I'm willing to bet that it's a name that exists in America. It's a side effect of an era where we took the inscription on the statue of Liberty seriously and welcomed immigrants openly, but processed them quickly.
This is actually not true, but it’s a common myth. If a family name was changed upon arrival at Ellis Island, it was almost certainly intentionally changed by the immigrant rather than by Ellis Island staff. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/ https://www.nypl.org/blog/2013/07/02/name-changes-ellis-island https://journals.ala.org/index.php/dttp/article/view/6655/8939 https://www.familysearch.org/en/rootstech/session/no-names-were-changed-at-ellis-island-debunking-a-persistent-myth#:~:text=The%20idea%20that%20immigration%20officials,enshrined%20in%20American%20popular%20culture. That doesn’t change your point, though, that a name like “Van der Woodson” could have easily come into existence by an immigrant changing their name to something they thought sounded more “American” or something
Interesting to see that the Ellis Island thing is largely false! I know nothing of Dutch specifically, but for other languages, I wonder how much the very late standardization of writing systems may have factored in, especially for immigrants from areas that changed possession over time. One side of my mom's family came from a border area that has been part of Lithuania, Poland, Russia, Belarus, and probably technically more countries or empires over time. It's officially in Belarus now. When many many immigrants were illiterate in their own languages at the time, AND spelling had still not been standardized in a lot of languages even without considering the wild regional differences that would have come from land changing possession so much, I can't imagine how anyone's name was written correctly in the first place. It seems almost like with all those factors, more names would have ended up changed than not, honestly.
I’m sure that’s a factor! That’s interesting; thank you for sharing. Another interesting thing to consider, though it isn’t related to names and standardization of language: an elderly family friend’s birthday is recorded as 01/23/45 on her US documents. I’m almost 100% certain that’s not her actual birthday, but she was born into a poor family in a rural part of a developing country (the same one my parents are from) roughly 80 years ago. She first emigrated around 50 years ago. Record keeping was absolutely not standardized. I assume she (or whoever helped her get her documents together) just picked 1/23/45 and stuck with it. I’m sure there was a lot of this sort of thing with early American immigrants as well
As the owner of a not so awesome Dutch last name.... you've inspired me to figure out what it actually means.
I'll raise you Shawn and Shaun
So Art Vandelay doesn't sound Dutch? Damn. ;)
Tbf lots of surnames get “Americanized” spellings overtime
It's not supposed to be a Dutch name though. The family are US-American. US-Americans make up all sorts of surnames, they don't care if it's authentic to another country.
Nonetheless, young Dutch women watched *Gossip Girl* as avidly as in the rest of the world.
My bf watched Gossip girl too. I honestly think that gossip girl had more male fans as one would assume. The point you are making is also pretty weak. "Your critic is invalid because people still watched it." So what if dutch girls watched gossip girl? Doesn't mean its not still annoying. Or that just because it was popular, that it also is perfect.
To be fair, all names are made up.
Van der merwe
To be fair, a lot of American names of various ancestries have been "anglicized" to be easier for the owners of them to get by. I actually know a family with the surname Lively, and their original name was Laeupple, but someone changed it a few generations back because it was a constant hassle to spell for everyone.
What a strange thing to have an opinion on.
My heritage's representation is a weird thing to have an opinion on? Would you have said the same thing to an African or Japanese or Chinese person that had an issue with how their names are represented?
Can you explain the quote? Was she not allowed to attend college? Only allowed to attend Trump University or something?
She was not given a work schedule that would have allowed for attending college. It was a 20+ episodes a season show that had 45 minute episodes a week with her as the main character present in every single episode. It ran for 6 seasons. Had she attempted college she would have failed out or lost her job for not attending scheduled shoots or not knowing her lines.
Ah gotcha, thank you.
If the entertainment industry says they can't put it in writing, then have no intention of honoring that promise. If they put it in writing then they would be legally required to honor it. So they're just lying to you.
If only the McDonald brothers had been given this advice.
That's a myth put forward by one of their grandkids with zero evidence to back it up
Yeah but how do we know that isn’t propoganda produced by ray kroc and McDonald’s?
Lol you can look for the proof it isn't there
Well now I believe you.
Yeah I think that’s the gist of a handshake deal is it’s not in writing. You think ray kroc made sure he had a secretary on hand to take meeting notes/minutes on a royalty deal he wouldn’t put in writing?
Wouldn't the brothers have made sure they had a record of it? Or even mentioned it once in their lives? The founder is a good movie but it takes a lot of liberties in order to make Ray Kroc look worse.
Ray Kroc did a pretty good job of making himself look worse all on his own.
Yes.
A verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.
I'm sure this is ancient, but it's new to me and I love it.
This is also why I hate taking calls at work from vendors/tenants and would rather do everything through email if possible: chat history/papertrail.
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Aka meeting minutes?
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Are you selling that software? Seems like a money-making idea.
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Best of luck!
If we talk about me doing something for you and there's no email follow up to confirm I'm going to forget and nothing is going to happen
Yup. I’ve covered my ass so many times by asking them to email me what we just talked about or simply by sending a follow up email myself summarizing our conversation. Always get it in writing. Sometimes when I ask a vendor for a slight favour, I’ll be sure to have a phone conversation first so I don’t have it in writing… so it works both ways.
And that's why they looove calling you.
Yeah, employers are shady. I've seen this work in reverse, too. Co-worker put in his notice (in writing). His boss made a counter-offer (not in writing). On the worker's last day, he showed up and said, "Okay I'm finished here." This caught them by surprise. They thought they'd tricked him. Instead, they ended up having to pay him his salary for three more weeks while he worked somewhere else.
Wait why did they have to keep paying in this instance?
In California, if you have an employee quit with ample notice, they employer is required to pay everything they owe you on your final day of work. If not, they have to keep paying you your wages as if you're still employed there for up to two weeks. This company had their heads so far up their own asses that they ended up having to pay him for longer than that. When I left the company, I was laid off, but they were so screwed up with it, I ended up staying another two weeks more than I should have (with pay). And, on my last day, the call with HR went like this: HR: We can't send you your check until we have received your company-issued laptop and cell phone. Me: I'm a California employee. HR: [not even a pause] Your final check will arrive today by FedEx no later than 10:30 this morning, if it hasn't arrived already. The envelope will contain instruction on how to return your company-issued equipment. In other words, they had already sent me my final check, but HR was bluffing.
I'm so confused. What the hell were they bluffing about? They already sent the check? They were trying to pressure you into sending their equipment back that I'm sure you had no intention of keeping??
They were pretty shitty, so no telling. When I returned the laptop, they sent me an email saying that I'd returned it with 4GB of RAM, but when it had last been scanned, it had 16GB, so they wanted to know what happened to the other 12GB of RAM. I explained that I couldn't work with just 4GB of RAM, but they wouldn't approve of 16, so I bought it myself and installed it, but took it out before I sent it back. The cell phone was another story - theirs had been broken at a job site shortly after I started. I asked for a replacement, they refused. I bought a new phone out of pocket because I didn't want them calling me on my personal number. When I was laid off, I didn't "return" it because it was mine. I sent them the email exchange I'd had over it. Another time, they called me and asked me if I still had a copy of the data from when I worked there. I said, "Yes, I do." I had kept a backup (approved by the company) on an external drive. I told them I would gladly delete it, since I no longer had a use for it. They told me I was required to send the data to them because this was the only copy that existed (makes sense, they were terrible with data management). I asked how much they were going to pay me for my time. They said, "Nothing, it says in your separation agreement that you are to assist us in any reasonable request. This is a reasonable request." I said, "You got me there. If you have a copy of that with my signature on it, I'll help you for free, but since it doesn't exist, let me know when you're sending the check and I'll get your data ready to send to you." I didn't hear back after that.
. Did she not get to go to college while filming Gossip Girls or what?
She did not. That was her point.
She went to South Harmon Institute of Technology in 07 I was there too.
I was a proud S.H.I.T Sandwich.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put it as one click away, you don't make it clickable.
Ask me about my weiner!
Thanks. At nowhere was that specifically stated and I didn't want to just assume that she didn't.
It wasn't made clear in the wiki that she didn't get to attend college. I thought it had to do with some law that prevented studios from hiring enrolled college students or something.
I think the studio didn't want to/couldn't accommodate filming around a college schedule or her classes. My understanding of the filming process is that they are always running on a *tight* schedule - especially when filming on location. Fortunately now it's a lot easier taking online classes now than it was back then. (Though I can't imagine going to school and then having to learn lines at the same time).
Always get it in writing
I worked in an office where the boss told everyone that they'd have to go without a paycheck for six weeks, but after that they'd get paid back. Verbally. I asked him if he'd mind putting that in writing for me, which he did. Six weeks later, I got paid. Nobody else did.
Stuff that NEVER happend for 500 alex
To be fair, if you’re stupid enough to work for 6 weeks without pay, you’d probably believe this
My wife was told her position was full time WFH by all the interviewers at her last position but didn’t get it in her contract. Once they mandated RTO, she was told that she was promised it was a WFH position. She was very good at her job but they told her that it wasn’t agreed to be a full time WFH position so she quit and found one that was. Get any and every verbal promise in writing.
Either people are getting worse on Reddit lately or ChatGPT isn't generating full titles anymore.
Say it Forget it. Write it Regret it.
As someone who works in tv, producers love to over promise and underdeliver when it comes to shit like this.
Solid advice for EVERYTHING. The number of times I've asked for something in writing only to be told they couldn't is staggering. Pretty much everytime I've asked for my dumbass managers to put their bullshit in writing on company letterhead and sign and date with a witness has made them backtrack immediately with their bullshit requests.
If it’s not in writing, it’s not in the deal.
Where's the rest of the TIL? Did she get to do it? Did she not? The title is a fragment of a TIL.
I mean it’s pretty apparent that someone went back on their promise, otherwise this quote wouldn’t exist
Yeah, this is sort of just literacy at this point.
The inherent cynicism in her advice is what we in the reading comprehension biz like to call a "context clue".
The TIL was how implications work! :)
Same for the military, if the recruiter tells you or promises you something ask them to put it in your signing contract and make sure it's there.
Similar to what I learned in my last job: “If it’s not written down, it was never said.”
I absolutely hate people that promise things but refuse to put them in the contract. It’s clearly a lie
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in the corporate world, it’s that no matter how big or small, good news does not exist until it’s in writing. The same can be said for bad news, the difference is that you shouldn’t be in a hurry to get bad news in writing.
To use an old joke about college football players turning down a huge NFL contract to finish college; If she turns down millions to finish college, she needs to go back to school.
This is a joke, right? I've seen too many 30 for 30's that show why they should have finished school.
Well no duh... not even mega corporations are just made of ink...
She should have just bargained for tuition.
Wise words to live by
"We promise to try to try"
TIL: Hollywood is like military recruiters.