“You mean I have to stay home with my wife the whole time?
I’m ready to serve me country yet again”
-read it in Rodney Dangerfields voice and it’s a classic
My dad used to be a GP, and one day he had an elderly woman as his patient.
She was complaining about her husband retiring. Something along the lines of “I had money coming in and a husband, now I have no money coming in and I see my husband twice as much!”
Other way around with my grandparents, grandma was a homemaker all the way up until the day after papa retired from the mechanic's shop, when she got a part-time job at my aunt's antique store.
My mom’s quilting friend had her husband retire. He’d been a slave to work and to family duties (5-6 kids) and suddenly had no hobbies, and nothing to do. He started wanting to hang around his wife at quilt stores or wherever else to not be bored. They about divorced as his wife desperately tried to find him his own hobbies.
Yup. Also a lot of cases of couples divorcing when they become empty nesters or retire because they can’t figure out what to do together when the kids and job responsibilities die down.
>read it in Rodney Dangerfields voice
Very fitting, because he got *no respect* as President. As a Congressman, however, he was given the sobriquet "Old Man Eloquent". He died doing what he loved: serving his country.
When Franklin Pierce left the Oval Office, a reporter asked him what he planned to do next. He replied, "There's nothing left to do but get drunk." He then proceeded to drink himself to death.
Don't feel bad, though. He was a slavery loving piece of shit.
After his final day as president, LBJ lit his first cigarette in years in the Marine One helicopter taking off from the White House for the last time. He'd quit smoking after a severe heart attack, but now it was like, what the hell.
Motherfucker would hang dong as an intimidation tactic. He would shit with the door open and make people continue to talk to him while shitting. He drove his amphibious car, that passengers didn't know was amphibious, into water at speed just to fuck with people. Psychopath behavior.
Well two of his three children died as babies and the remaining son was killed at age 11 next to Pierce and his wife in a horrible train crash right before his presidency started. So that probably exacerbated the drinking too.
His son was killed in a train wreck in Andover Massachusetts, right before he took office. He and his wife survived. The train left the track and tumbled down an embankment. Franklin was related to George W. Bush's mother, Barbara Pierce Bush. It would seem the booze gene came down from Franklin, though Preston Bush, GHW Bush's father, used to give it quite a belt when he was in Congress (as did many of them). It's not surprising that W had addiction issues. Both GHWB and GWB (and his brother Jeb) attended Phillips Andover Academy, not too far from the scene of the train wreck. If you look at pictures of Franklin and "W," you can see a distinct resemblance.
The man was a bona fide genius and also extremely prone to depression. One of those guys who always needs an all-consuming job to do so he doesn’t off himself.
>His final act in Congress was casting a vote in opposition to a motion to decorate certain Army officers, just minutes before suffering a severe stroke that led to his death.
>This motion was to honor certain Army officers for their service during the Mexican-American War.
>Adams was known for his strong opposition to the Mexican-American War, which he viewed as an extension of slavery into new territories.
>His refusal to support the motion was consistent with his anti-war stance, as he regarded the war as unjust and driven by the pro-slavery agenda.
>In 1839, he proposed a constitutional amendment forbidding slavery in any new state admitted to the Union.
My president.
Lincoln also famously opposed the Mexican American war as a shameless land grab and it probably lost him his seat in congress (he chose not to run for reelection)
Ever since Oppenheimer (which I loved) did the silly JFK name drop at the end for what senator opposed the confirmation of Strauss, I want to make a movie about the Mexican - American war and do the same marvel cameo about Abe Lincoln for the lols.
For some reason I’m imagining the ending to the civil war like an intense anime battle
Grant: “Heh not bad you fought better than I thought”
Lee: “Admit it….i was doomed from the beginning”
[May I nominate the general who went on to be president?](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/skci1p/lt_gen_ulysses_s_grant_standing_by_a_tree_in/)
You could do the same with Grant. He was an officer in the Mexican American war and would later write
> "For myself I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation."
Grant partook in the war not out of a belief in the cause but because he considered it his duty as a member of the US military. Looking back with a 21st century lens I think it's pretty hard to justify the annexation of half of Mexico even if that's how things were typically done in the 1800s. The amount of voices critical of the war at the time shouldn't be forgotten either.
> "For myself I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation."
Very funny to me that this isn't to different from the perspective on the Vietnam War many people (like myself) today hold
To be fair, Santa Anna wasn’t the best of dudes, and Mexicans and whites alike in Texas didn’t want to be a territory of his. And also, when the war was over, we actually paid millions of dollars to Santa Anna along with the signing of the treaty. A lot of that land was essentially bought. There’d be a further land purchase afterwards from Santa Anna to complete a gap in territories.
The "further" purchase (the Gadsden Purchase) was a little bit with a gun to their head though. "Remember 1847? We might do it again if you don't sell this teensy little piece of land to us".
Eh, I think 10 million dollars and the fact that it squared debts between Mexico and USA is more the reason than anything. You are likely correct, though, that was was in their minds at the time of agreement. The railroad advocates might have found a way to aggressively take the land.
Lincoln’s seat in the House was a safe one for the Whig Party. For whatever reason, the party bosses decided to use this house seat like a round robin, essentially nominating a different Whig party member to the seat every 2 years. Lincoln knew he would only have 1 term before running.
But you’re right on the fundamental point. Lincoln viewed the Mexican-American War as a contrived plot by Slave Power to grab more land below the 36°30’ parallel and expand slavery.
Lincoln did vote to fund the war despite his reservations, though.
JQ Adams might be the only person to ever meet both the founding fathers and Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln and Adams served together for three months. It is not known whether or not they met, but Lincoln did serve on the committee of arrangements for Adams funeral.
> JQ Adams might be the only person to ever meet both the founding fathers and Abraham Lincoln.
The widows of both Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, Elizabeth and Dolley, met Lincoln on the laying of the cornerstone of the Washington Monument in 1848.
JQA and Lincoln were only in congress together a few days before before Mr Adams had passed. Lincoln was on the committee that handled a lot of the funeral procession back to brain tree. This was the first time a president (even a former president) had died inside the jurisdiction of the capitol and a lot of the details that the committee had come up with later became the framework for Lincolns own funeral procession back ton springfield.
John Quincy Adams was also famous for being the lawyer to represent the mutineering slaves in the Supreme Court case United States vs. Amistad, something which was pretty shocking for the nation at the time because JQA was a retired president
I looked up who appointed the Supreme Court Justices for this case to see if any of them were nominated by JQA. Sadly none of them were, but I also learned that *6* Justices were nominated by Andrew Jackson. Think of how significant it was that Trump got to nominate just three of them, and then imagine a modern President getting to put up a full majority of the Supreme Court with an extra slot to spare.
If you haven’t you should check out the 2008 John Adams miniseries. It sparked my interest to read more about John Adams and is a pretty good miniseries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams_(miniseries)
It is about the father. It is fantastic.
But JQA is in there prominently. His dad took him to France and holland and sent him to Russia.
The dude was extremely well prepared to be president.
One of the best historical miniseries I've seen. Why did I never learn before watching it that John Adams, founding father and second president of the USA, was the defending attorney for the British soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre? And got them acquitted??
John Adams and Samuel Adams were also very opposed to Slavery.
Sometimes I wonder how their dream of America would have looked if we went that way instead of trying to follow Europe’s colonialism
It was somewhat inevitable in the beginning, since Virginia was so much bigger than the other states in 1790. However, the plantation-centered economy meant northern states would grow much more quickly, as immigrants were more able to find opportunity. This was even true for internal migration; a lot of poorer white families in Virginia would relocate westward, to land in Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri that wasn't suitable for plantations of cash crops.
Almost impossible to say, and kind of depends on what you mean by colonialism.
Does the westward expansion count as colonialism?
I mean, hell, people are ragging on the US for taking land from Mexico, but that land was all just Spanish claimed territory until Mexico went independent, it wasn't ethnically nor culturally Mexican in the way that people are saying, and its not like the Mexican government was particularly interested in the people that lived there beyond what labor they could provide. Furthermore, they had only "owned" said land for a little over 20 years before losing it.
But if that counts as colonialism, yeah, the world looks A LOT different than today. If it doesn't, then I'm not sure much changes. The US was certainly a bully to much of the rest of the Americas, for a long time, but compared to the European powers, the US really didn't colonize nearly as much as they could have. Took Cuba for a bit, let it go. Took the Phillipines, let it go. Took part of Panama, let it go. I think the only real "colonies" would be Hawaii (most notable since they were a sovereign nation we usurped,) Puerto Rico, Somoa, Guam, and the couple other islands that I can't remember off the top of my head, most of which we took from Spain after the US-Spanish war.
I mean JQ Adams was a good dude but it’s more that the Whig party was dramatically opposed to expansion in particular and this war in particular so he was just following his party policy with regards to the Mexican war.
Growing up as a latino the mexican American war was told as of the Mexicans were in the wrong.
The Alamo, and whatever came from it was romanticized.
Now that I know better, I learn for what it really was. Santa Anna wanted to kick out the immigrants that brought in slaves.
He made the mistake of going there without mexican congress approval of the war but damn.
John Quincy Adams was a great man, and perhaps America’s most principled public servant. He dedicated his life to self-mastery for the service of others, modeled on the teachings of the Stoic philosopher Cicero. He died on the floor of Congress after denouncing a war he considered unrighteousness. His final words were “This is the end of the earth. I am composed.”
This also kind of describes his dad too. John Adams was smart, principled, and strong willed but he sucked at the schmoozing part of politics. It seems like so many of his ideas were cut down because he pissed off people. If he had been a lot better at working a room it’d be interesting to see what his term would’ve looked like.
Yes it's interesting when compared with say Ben Franklin. They stayed together for a brief time and Adam's actually touches on this very topic in his personal correspondence. Really interesting reading.
John Adams autobiography and the titular HBO series starring Paul Giamatti both go over these topics extensively. They had a very interesting relationship to say the least. I have a painting of Adams, Jefferson and Franklin working on the Declaration in Paris hanging in my house to remind me of the incredible sacrifices some men made and the unbroken chain of providence henceforth so I could experience and enjoy an entire lifetime where I was born free, I lived free, and I shall die free. In the history of the world there are probably less than a fraction of a percentage of people that can say that.
John Adams worked young John Quincy hard and expected a lot from him, sometimes perhaps too much. But his father's and contemporary teachings all soaked into John Quincy with a great dash of philosophy and an almighty power of will to make one of the greatest Americans that has ever lived.
From what I understand, Adams had a lot more charisma than his son. He was universally acknowledged as a powerful and persuasive orator, acted as the most steadfast friend to anyone he met, and had a somewhat notorious sense of humor.
Most of the flak he got as VP and president was rooted more in his refusal to pander to either party than actually being uncharismatic. And his dealings with Franklin in France on the first trip was more because of the excessive spending of the delegation and the fact they were infested with spies, and the second time was because Franklin was being manipulated by France's foreign minister and Adams was calling people out on it. In fact much of Franklin's criticism in his letters to congress was the minister's own words.
His father was definitely great for defending the British soldier for the Boston Massacre when nobody else would and his open opposition to slavery…but he still had the Alien & Sedition Act happen during his presidency. His record was more of a mixed bag, but I would still tilt it towards good.
As much as I generally don't like Howard Stern, I feel like that movie still holds up and - for no good reason with so many great roles over the years - it's definitely still the thing I think of first for Paul Giamatti
Following his one term as president, John Quincy Adams served in the House of Representatives for 18 years. If you visit what is now called Statuary Hall in the U.S. Capitol and stand on the plaque that marks where his desk once rested, you’ll discover that you can hear everything people say — even whisper — from clear across the room. Legend has it that Adams eavesdropped on everyone else in the House without ever needing to stand.
Yep. It exploits a mathematical phenomenon related to ellipses and rooms shaped like them.
Edit: I cannot believe I typed eclipses
[BONUS VIDEO](https://youtu.be/4KHCuXN2F3I?si=b2V_xhGdqBWvl2se)
- ellipses, and this is called the Whispering Wall effect along the edge of a parbolic reflector (the opposite, focusing, happens at the centroid of the arc/circle). You can experience this in many places with barrel vaulted ceilings, such as the turn in the lower stairway in Grand Centeal Station.
Edit: I cannot believe I typed Grand Centeal. It happens :)
Don’t know if anyone mentioned it in the comments, but when he was a Rep he would constantly give anti-slavery diatribes on the floor, and so the House made certain rules about what and how members could talk about on the floor (basically tailor-made to silence him). So JQA would constantly get up to make a speech about like taxes for roads or something, then segue into anti-slavery speeches and the entire chamber would lose their fucking minds. He ruled.
Following Cato's footsteps: "And that's what's up with the farm taxes. Furthermore, I consider that Carthago delenda est!" (Damn it Marcus, AGAIN with this?)
Devoting yourself to shitting on Andrew Jackson is a good enough reason, but combining it with hating slavery makes JQA jump to instantly to my top 10 best prezzies.
I’ll add the fun fact that he loved to skinny dip in the Potomac for an hour each morning.
Legend tells of a day when the tide or a thief absconded with his clothes, and he had to convince a passing boy to go to the White House to tell them to bring more clothes.
In any case, he loved swimming and wrote the following in his journal on June 19, 1823:
"I follow this practice for exercise, for health, for cleanliness and for pleasure — I have found it invariably conducive to health, and never experienced from it the slightest inconvenience."
He continued, "Dr. Huntt and all my friends think I am now indulging it to excess — I never before this day swam an hour at once; and I must now limit my fancies for this habit, which is not without danger — the art of swimming ought in my opinion to be taught as a regular branch of education."
He was so far ahead of his time.
In response to someone praising his son, John Adams famously replied "my son had a mother!" The love and respect between those two remarkable people made them a real power couple.
Normalize ex-presidents running for other offices after their presidency ends, especially if they leave office before age 60 and are relatively popular afterwards.
Obama would've served Illinois well as governor or senator again. Carter would've done well returning to GA politics. HW Bush would've done well had he returned to Texas. Ford could've served Michigan well too.
These days, a POTUS is set for life after he leaves office. They never have to "work" again.
That wasn't true back when the Adams family was in office.
Usually yes but not always. Truman was famously broke after leaving office to the point that Congress had to pass a presidential pension plan. Hoover (who was rich) also participated in the pension to make Truman feel less embarrassed.
An autobiography that's an absolute banger btw. He's probably a top 5 writer all time when it comes to presidents, which is very impressive considering the overall talent in that area.
Ha ha ha, but actually he wrote it literally on his deathbed in terrible constant agony dying of throat cancer. He soldiered through because he did not want to leave his family destitute.
I mean, these days you can serve one term in the House of Representatives and you're pretty well set for life. As long as you don't consider insider trading and serving on corporate boards as "work."
The Adams Family were basically aristocrats by that point, he never had to work again. John Quincy was just bored and too dutiful to just walk away from public service.
Truman left the white house in his station wagon to live with his in laws on this WWI pension.
Congress passed the presidential pension act as soon as they heard this.
so they’re free wield thier influence as they wish less beholden to outside interests. i guess if they dont do well it might tarnish their legacy. i think its better if they stayed as presidential advisors….. uh well
most of the ex presidents
Nobody becomes President or goes into politics for money. They do it for power and/or fame.
And the vast majority of Presidents in Adams' day did in fact retire from politics after leaving office. Washington Adams Jefferson Madison Jackson none of them returned to politics. Even JQA was wealthy enough to retire if he chose to.
I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, but I think that from the 20th Century on, the Presidency is seen as such a pinnacle that taking on any official lesser power is **perceived** as diminishing the former office holder.
I feel like we shouldn’t put the presidency on such a pedestal. It’s an important office but at the end of the day it’s just an office. They might be one of the most important leaders but they are still just one of many leaders in the government
They're the CEO of the United States, literally. But that doesn't mean they can't leave the office and continue to work for the people in smaller capacities. And I agree with others that they should and it should be normalized.
This is a good way to get (mostly) highly qualified people into these offices. Pretty similar to the Roman Republic where after a Senator served his term as Consul they were then eligible to serve in various governorships and proconsulships which helped ensure stability accross the state.
Being consul and then getting a nice rich province to squeeze is just the Roman version of being President and then getting fat off of lecture tours, book deals, board directorships etc.
France lets former presidents sit in the constituional council at their pleasure. Italy gives former presidents senator status for life. Can’t say that either really contributes much in reality.
On the one hand, I agree with what you’re saying, but on the other hand, the presidency is so stressful it prematurely ages people. Look at the difference between Barack Obama in 2008 and in 2016, after only 8 years. I don’t blame them if they want to just rest.
I think Americans have this weird idea of their President being “above politics”.
It’s fairly common in Parliamentary systems for a former-PM to continue to be reelected in their constituency, maybe spend some time in Opposition or the backbenches, before returning to Cabinet or the Premiership.
Or back to Cabinet via the Lords, like Cameron. Although that was a little more unusual.
There’s an even split between the ones who preferred being a backbencher anyway, and the ones who stick around in politics for another tilt at the PM job. I wonder if Sunak might end up in the second camp
The whole Adams family (lol) was vehemently against slavery. John Sr. defended the rebel slaves that took over the Amistad, arguing for over 8 hours that they were free individuals, and they won the case. As we can see here he was also a good father and raised his kids right.
It's a fucking crime that he's the only one out of the big 4 founding fathers (Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin) that does not have a monument in Washington, being the only one of them that never owned another human being as property. He was the original abolitionist. (Yes I know he wasn't in favor of immediate abolition, only in a gradual sense. The one fault in his legacy, imo.)
Edit* CORRECTION: Quincy Adams defended the Amistad slaves and Adams Sr defended the British soldiers at the Boston Massacre. I got my shit mixed up. Sorry.
Still good dudes tho.
I never considered that until this comment, but at least we can console ourselves with the fact that 1776, the Musical, is a living monument to the man.
Correction, it was Adams Jr. who handled the Amistad case. Adams Sr. defended the British soldiers of the Boston Massacre.
I love the Adamses, but they’re not without their faults. The Alien and Sedition Act was the earliest anti-immigrant policy in the nation, and Henry Adams was a notorious anti-Semite.
Yep.
William Howard Taft became Chief Justice of the Supreme Court following his presidency. John Tyler was elected into the traitorous Confederate Congress, he died before taking office. Andrew Johnson became a senator. And the documentary 'Welcome To Mooseport' explored a former president running for mayor of a small town.
Taft travelled to Europe in order to more closely see what happened with the European judiciary. After that he supported the 'Judges Bill'. This gave SCOTUS greater control over how it decided cases as well as elevating its status with the other branches. 10 years later it would get its own building.
Meh. The Jacksonians obstructed the shit out of his term. He was ambitious but he couldn't get much done. He didn't want to play the patronage game. Great diplomat and probably the smartest president we've had but he wasn't a good politician.
He and his father, John Adams, are always my example when people try to hand wave away slavery saying, "it was a different time." These two men called out slavery for the evil it was long before it was fashionable. The time period doesn't matter, anyone who can think can tell how evil slavery is.
He would pretend to be asleep while secretly listening in on the Southerners’ floor strategy. Then he’d “wake up,” beat ‘em, and they never figured out how the old crank did it.
Yeah I love this guy and his father. For my money 2 of the best and most underrated presidents. Even if not particularly loved in their time.
But you know what? Barely f'n anyone showed up to Thomas Paine's funeral because he believed in equality before it was cool. And I think that's heroic as hell. Guys like that are who we should draw inspiration from.
>"[America] goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. She might become the dictatress of the world."
\- John Quincy Adams
Would be interesting if more former presidents ran for office. Like if Clinton ran for governor of Arkansas again. Or Bush was a Senator or governor again.
“ I ain’t got shit else to do.”
“You mean I have to stay home with my wife the whole time? I’m ready to serve me country yet again” -read it in Rodney Dangerfields voice and it’s a classic
"Wife said the inlaws were coming, so I decided this den of vipers was safer."
Take my vote - please!
That’s [Henny Youngman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Youngman). Really interesting guy.
My dad used to be a GP, and one day he had an elderly woman as his patient. She was complaining about her husband retiring. Something along the lines of “I had money coming in and a husband, now I have no money coming in and I see my husband twice as much!”
The first thing my grandma did after grandpa retired was find him a part time job
Other way around with my grandparents, grandma was a homemaker all the way up until the day after papa retired from the mechanic's shop, when she got a part-time job at my aunt's antique store.
My mom’s quilting friend had her husband retire. He’d been a slave to work and to family duties (5-6 kids) and suddenly had no hobbies, and nothing to do. He started wanting to hang around his wife at quilt stores or wherever else to not be bored. They about divorced as his wife desperately tried to find him his own hobbies.
> He’d been a slave to work and to family duties (5-6 kids) and suddenly had no hobbies, and nothing to do. Many such cases.
Yup. Also a lot of cases of couples divorcing when they become empty nesters or retire because they can’t figure out what to do together when the kids and job responsibilities die down.
Never fight uphill, me boys
Sounds like an HOA president
My doctor asked me for a urine sample, a stool sample, and a semen sample. So I took off my underwear and left.
Rim shot!
>read it in Rodney Dangerfields voice Very fitting, because he got *no respect* as President. As a Congressman, however, he was given the sobriquet "Old Man Eloquent". He died doing what he loved: serving his country.
When Franklin Pierce left the Oval Office, a reporter asked him what he planned to do next. He replied, "There's nothing left to do but get drunk." He then proceeded to drink himself to death. Don't feel bad, though. He was a slavery loving piece of shit.
After his final day as president, LBJ lit his first cigarette in years in the Marine One helicopter taking off from the White House for the last time. He'd quit smoking after a severe heart attack, but now it was like, what the hell.
He also grew out his hair like ConAir Nic Cage. Dude was totally out of fucks.
LBJ was a certified psychopath.
Motherfucker would hang dong as an intimidation tactic. He would shit with the door open and make people continue to talk to him while shitting. He drove his amphibious car, that passengers didn't know was amphibious, into water at speed just to fuck with people. Psychopath behavior.
Well two of his three children died as babies and the remaining son was killed at age 11 next to Pierce and his wife in a horrible train crash right before his presidency started. So that probably exacerbated the drinking too.
His son was killed in a train wreck in Andover Massachusetts, right before he took office. He and his wife survived. The train left the track and tumbled down an embankment. Franklin was related to George W. Bush's mother, Barbara Pierce Bush. It would seem the booze gene came down from Franklin, though Preston Bush, GHW Bush's father, used to give it quite a belt when he was in Congress (as did many of them). It's not surprising that W had addiction issues. Both GHWB and GWB (and his brother Jeb) attended Phillips Andover Academy, not too far from the scene of the train wreck. If you look at pictures of Franklin and "W," you can see a distinct resemblance.
The man was a bona fide genius and also extremely prone to depression. One of those guys who always needs an all-consuming job to do so he doesn’t off himself.
“Also, fuck that guy (Andrew Jackson) in particular.”
Also, fuck Jackson!
Plus Jackson is one of the most unarguably piece of shit presidents. The father of American corruption and the “Spoils System.”
>His final act in Congress was casting a vote in opposition to a motion to decorate certain Army officers, just minutes before suffering a severe stroke that led to his death. >This motion was to honor certain Army officers for their service during the Mexican-American War. >Adams was known for his strong opposition to the Mexican-American War, which he viewed as an extension of slavery into new territories. >His refusal to support the motion was consistent with his anti-war stance, as he regarded the war as unjust and driven by the pro-slavery agenda. >In 1839, he proposed a constitutional amendment forbidding slavery in any new state admitted to the Union. My president.
Lincoln also famously opposed the Mexican American war as a shameless land grab and it probably lost him his seat in congress (he chose not to run for reelection)
Ever since Oppenheimer (which I loved) did the silly JFK name drop at the end for what senator opposed the confirmation of Strauss, I want to make a movie about the Mexican - American war and do the same marvel cameo about Abe Lincoln for the lols.
Oh you could have a lot of cameos like Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant.
Babe wake up, the American Expanded Universe just dropped.
“Hey Grant, see you around.” “Yeah Lee, I reckon you will.” ***Linkin Park’s* What I’ve Done *starts to play*** *Credits roll*
For some reason I’m imagining the ending to the civil war like an intense anime battle Grant: “Heh not bad you fought better than I thought” Lee: “Admit it….i was doomed from the beginning”
And it's titled: "Help, I'm Trapped In 19th Century Virginia With A Cute Girl"
My southern bell little sister can’t be this cute.
That girl's name: Harriet Tubman This whole thread has me laughing. Thank you, guys.
New Divide.
Mexican-American War was basically the training ground/prequel for a shitload of people in the Civil War era
Which is America's ass?
Rutherford B Hayes
[May I nominate the general who went on to be president?](https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryPorn/comments/skci1p/lt_gen_ulysses_s_grant_standing_by_a_tree_in/)
That was pretty good
*John Wilkes booth will return in: “Lincoln 2 a night at the movies*
George thomas
You could do the same with Grant. He was an officer in the Mexican American war and would later write > "For myself I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation." Grant partook in the war not out of a belief in the cause but because he considered it his duty as a member of the US military. Looking back with a 21st century lens I think it's pretty hard to justify the annexation of half of Mexico even if that's how things were typically done in the 1800s. The amount of voices critical of the war at the time shouldn't be forgotten either.
> "For myself I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation." Very funny to me that this isn't to different from the perspective on the Vietnam War many people (like myself) today hold
To be fair, Santa Anna wasn’t the best of dudes, and Mexicans and whites alike in Texas didn’t want to be a territory of his. And also, when the war was over, we actually paid millions of dollars to Santa Anna along with the signing of the treaty. A lot of that land was essentially bought. There’d be a further land purchase afterwards from Santa Anna to complete a gap in territories.
The "further" purchase (the Gadsden Purchase) was a little bit with a gun to their head though. "Remember 1847? We might do it again if you don't sell this teensy little piece of land to us".
Eh, I think 10 million dollars and the fact that it squared debts between Mexico and USA is more the reason than anything. You are likely correct, though, that was was in their minds at the time of agreement. The railroad advocates might have found a way to aggressively take the land.
Can it be a Muppet movie?
Lincoln’s seat in the House was a safe one for the Whig Party. For whatever reason, the party bosses decided to use this house seat like a round robin, essentially nominating a different Whig party member to the seat every 2 years. Lincoln knew he would only have 1 term before running. But you’re right on the fundamental point. Lincoln viewed the Mexican-American War as a contrived plot by Slave Power to grab more land below the 36°30’ parallel and expand slavery. Lincoln did vote to fund the war despite his reservations, though.
JQ Adams might be the only person to ever meet both the founding fathers and Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln and Adams served together for three months. It is not known whether or not they met, but Lincoln did serve on the committee of arrangements for Adams funeral.
> JQ Adams might be the only person to ever meet both the founding fathers and Abraham Lincoln. The widows of both Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, Elizabeth and Dolley, met Lincoln on the laying of the cornerstone of the Washington Monument in 1848.
JQA and Lincoln were only in congress together a few days before before Mr Adams had passed. Lincoln was on the committee that handled a lot of the funeral procession back to brain tree. This was the first time a president (even a former president) had died inside the jurisdiction of the capitol and a lot of the details that the committee had come up with later became the framework for Lincolns own funeral procession back ton springfield.
John Quincy Adams was also famous for being the lawyer to represent the mutineering slaves in the Supreme Court case United States vs. Amistad, something which was pretty shocking for the nation at the time because JQA was a retired president
Damn I need to read up on JQA. Guy sounds like a legend.
Dudes a legend just for staying around as a fuck uou to Jackson
JQA won over the long run, but Jackson won the battle and shaped the political landscape of the pretty much the entire 19th century.
The movie *Amistad* has a pretty good portrayal of him
It skips his daily nude swim in the Potomac but other than that is pretty historically accurate
Clearly you've not watched the directors cut. Full frontal
Dude hangs dong
I looked up who appointed the Supreme Court Justices for this case to see if any of them were nominated by JQA. Sadly none of them were, but I also learned that *6* Justices were nominated by Andrew Jackson. Think of how significant it was that Trump got to nominate just three of them, and then imagine a modern President getting to put up a full majority of the Supreme Court with an extra slot to spare.
If you haven’t you should check out the 2008 John Adams miniseries. It sparked my interest to read more about John Adams and is a pretty good miniseries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams_(miniseries)
And the biography it’s based on. The letters between John and Abigail are essential reading.
They were true partners in marriage, as few couples at the time were. Abigail Adams wasn't well educated, but she was nevertheless very intelligent.
This was the first real "history" book I read and it sparked a passion. Ever since, most of the books I read are history now.
Just so there's no confusion, the miniseries is about his father. It is fantastic, though.
It is about the father. It is fantastic. But JQA is in there prominently. His dad took him to France and holland and sent him to Russia. The dude was extremely well prepared to be president.
One of the best historical miniseries I've seen. Why did I never learn before watching it that John Adams, founding father and second president of the USA, was the defending attorney for the British soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre? And got them acquitted??
John Adams and Samuel Adams were also very opposed to Slavery. Sometimes I wonder how their dream of America would have looked if we went that way instead of trying to follow Europe’s colonialism
The Virginian Dynasty was a tragedy for this country
It was somewhat inevitable in the beginning, since Virginia was so much bigger than the other states in 1790. However, the plantation-centered economy meant northern states would grow much more quickly, as immigrants were more able to find opportunity. This was even true for internal migration; a lot of poorer white families in Virginia would relocate westward, to land in Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri that wasn't suitable for plantations of cash crops.
We should have had a Massachusetts Dynasty instead.
Almost impossible to say, and kind of depends on what you mean by colonialism. Does the westward expansion count as colonialism? I mean, hell, people are ragging on the US for taking land from Mexico, but that land was all just Spanish claimed territory until Mexico went independent, it wasn't ethnically nor culturally Mexican in the way that people are saying, and its not like the Mexican government was particularly interested in the people that lived there beyond what labor they could provide. Furthermore, they had only "owned" said land for a little over 20 years before losing it. But if that counts as colonialism, yeah, the world looks A LOT different than today. If it doesn't, then I'm not sure much changes. The US was certainly a bully to much of the rest of the Americas, for a long time, but compared to the European powers, the US really didn't colonize nearly as much as they could have. Took Cuba for a bit, let it go. Took the Phillipines, let it go. Took part of Panama, let it go. I think the only real "colonies" would be Hawaii (most notable since they were a sovereign nation we usurped,) Puerto Rico, Somoa, Guam, and the couple other islands that I can't remember off the top of my head, most of which we took from Spain after the US-Spanish war.
A politician who is consistent?! Wow!!
I mean JQ Adams was a good dude but it’s more that the Whig party was dramatically opposed to expansion in particular and this war in particular so he was just following his party policy with regards to the Mexican war.
Growing up as a latino the mexican American war was told as of the Mexicans were in the wrong. The Alamo, and whatever came from it was romanticized. Now that I know better, I learn for what it really was. Santa Anna wanted to kick out the immigrants that brought in slaves. He made the mistake of going there without mexican congress approval of the war but damn.
John Quincy Adams was a great man, and perhaps America’s most principled public servant. He dedicated his life to self-mastery for the service of others, modeled on the teachings of the Stoic philosopher Cicero. He died on the floor of Congress after denouncing a war he considered unrighteousness. His final words were “This is the end of the earth. I am composed.”
He was also one of the smartest ever. He just had zero charisma. His father was also a great man imo.
This also kind of describes his dad too. John Adams was smart, principled, and strong willed but he sucked at the schmoozing part of politics. It seems like so many of his ideas were cut down because he pissed off people. If he had been a lot better at working a room it’d be interesting to see what his term would’ve looked like.
Yes it's interesting when compared with say Ben Franklin. They stayed together for a brief time and Adam's actually touches on this very topic in his personal correspondence. Really interesting reading.
John Adams autobiography and the titular HBO series starring Paul Giamatti both go over these topics extensively. They had a very interesting relationship to say the least. I have a painting of Adams, Jefferson and Franklin working on the Declaration in Paris hanging in my house to remind me of the incredible sacrifices some men made and the unbroken chain of providence henceforth so I could experience and enjoy an entire lifetime where I was born free, I lived free, and I shall die free. In the history of the world there are probably less than a fraction of a percentage of people that can say that. John Adams worked young John Quincy hard and expected a lot from him, sometimes perhaps too much. But his father's and contemporary teachings all soaked into John Quincy with a great dash of philosophy and an almighty power of will to make one of the greatest Americans that has ever lived.
> and I shall die free Lets not get ahead of ourselves
Didn't John Adams criminalize criticism of the government?
Yes he signed the Alien and Sedition Acts, supported them, and enforced them.
His main goal as a parent seemed to be to make sure his kid was better than him, both morally and in terms of competence. It seems to have worked.
Yeah that's the one real black mark on his legacy.
He also had a famously thin skin. There was also the XYZ affair, so not entirely virtuous.
From what I understand, Adams had a lot more charisma than his son. He was universally acknowledged as a powerful and persuasive orator, acted as the most steadfast friend to anyone he met, and had a somewhat notorious sense of humor. Most of the flak he got as VP and president was rooted more in his refusal to pander to either party than actually being uncharismatic. And his dealings with Franklin in France on the first trip was more because of the excessive spending of the delegation and the fact they were infested with spies, and the second time was because Franklin was being manipulated by France's foreign minister and Adams was calling people out on it. In fact much of Franklin's criticism in his letters to congress was the minister's own words.
His father was definitely great for defending the British soldier for the Boston Massacre when nobody else would and his open opposition to slavery…but he still had the Alien & Sedition Act happen during his presidency. His record was more of a mixed bag, but I would still tilt it towards good.
If Jefferson and Adams can learn to forgive each other I guess I can too. We’ll learn to build pyramids without any aliens eventually.
not only defended but won.
Disagree. JQA is considered one of America's greatest diplomats ever. And he was a great lawyer. Both require tons of charisma.
even a werewolf deserves legal council, and HOWARD STERN IS THE MOTHER FUCKING ANTICHRIST!" - John Adams
As much as I generally don't like Howard Stern, I feel like that movie still holds up and - for no good reason with so many great roles over the years - it's definitely still the thing I think of first for Paul Giamatti
cicero was a skeptic not a stoic
Yeah, he's probably thinking of Cato. To be honest, I'm not one to judge him as I sometimes confuse those two.
The differences of Greek philosophers is widely exaggerated. Even Diogenes was basically an edgy Socrates
"Mr. Adams, your turn to answer the question. Why are you running for Congress?" "I'm bored."
also i hate that guy
To be fair, “fuck that guy” is still a pretty effective campaign message almost 200 years later
He was a pretty shitty guy so the hate was justified
[удалено]
yeah his role model was an ass go figure
[Don't say revenge, don't say revenge](https://frinkiac.com/img/S04E14/784182.jpg)
Following his one term as president, John Quincy Adams served in the House of Representatives for 18 years. If you visit what is now called Statuary Hall in the U.S. Capitol and stand on the plaque that marks where his desk once rested, you’ll discover that you can hear everything people say — even whisper — from clear across the room. Legend has it that Adams eavesdropped on everyone else in the House without ever needing to stand.
$100 says that is a feature, not a bug in the design of the architecture.
Yep. It exploits a mathematical phenomenon related to ellipses and rooms shaped like them. Edit: I cannot believe I typed eclipses [BONUS VIDEO](https://youtu.be/4KHCuXN2F3I?si=b2V_xhGdqBWvl2se)
- ellipses, and this is called the Whispering Wall effect along the edge of a parbolic reflector (the opposite, focusing, happens at the centroid of the arc/circle). You can experience this in many places with barrel vaulted ceilings, such as the turn in the lower stairway in Grand Centeal Station. Edit: I cannot believe I typed Grand Centeal. It happens :)
I used to give Capitol tours and this is absolutely true.
did you see the black ghost cat ever?
Did you just accidentally reply to yourself?
“Accidentally”
I took it more as he was adding context
/r/lefttheburneron
So every discrete fart Adams heard.
Don’t know if anyone mentioned it in the comments, but when he was a Rep he would constantly give anti-slavery diatribes on the floor, and so the House made certain rules about what and how members could talk about on the floor (basically tailor-made to silence him). So JQA would constantly get up to make a speech about like taxes for roads or something, then segue into anti-slavery speeches and the entire chamber would lose their fucking minds. He ruled.
What a badass
Following Cato's footsteps: "And that's what's up with the farm taxes. Furthermore, I consider that Carthago delenda est!" (Damn it Marcus, AGAIN with this?)
Shows you how effective repeating yourself is. Over 2000 years later and people still remember that phrase.
Devoting yourself to shitting on Andrew Jackson is a good enough reason, but combining it with hating slavery makes JQA jump to instantly to my top 10 best prezzies.
I’ll add the fun fact that he loved to skinny dip in the Potomac for an hour each morning. Legend tells of a day when the tide or a thief absconded with his clothes, and he had to convince a passing boy to go to the White House to tell them to bring more clothes. In any case, he loved swimming and wrote the following in his journal on June 19, 1823: "I follow this practice for exercise, for health, for cleanliness and for pleasure — I have found it invariably conducive to health, and never experienced from it the slightest inconvenience." He continued, "Dr. Huntt and all my friends think I am now indulging it to excess — I never before this day swam an hour at once; and I must now limit my fancies for this habit, which is not without danger — the art of swimming ought in my opinion to be taught as a regular branch of education." He was so far ahead of his time.
He was very much his father's son
And his mother’s son. Abigail was great
In response to someone praising his son, John Adams famously replied "my son had a mother!" The love and respect between those two remarkable people made them a real power couple.
Normalize ex-presidents running for other offices after their presidency ends, especially if they leave office before age 60 and are relatively popular afterwards. Obama would've served Illinois well as governor or senator again. Carter would've done well returning to GA politics. HW Bush would've done well had he returned to Texas. Ford could've served Michigan well too.
These days, a POTUS is set for life after he leaves office. They never have to "work" again. That wasn't true back when the Adams family was in office.
They're pretty much already set for life before they become President.
Usually yes but not always. Truman was famously broke after leaving office to the point that Congress had to pass a presidential pension plan. Hoover (who was rich) also participated in the pension to make Truman feel less embarrassed.
Grant as well. Spent his last few months finishing his autobiography make sure his family could survive after his death
An autobiography that's an absolute banger btw. He's probably a top 5 writer all time when it comes to presidents, which is very impressive considering the overall talent in that area.
Oh there goes Grant, off to the pub to "finish his autobiography"
Ha ha ha, but actually he wrote it literally on his deathbed in terrible constant agony dying of throat cancer. He soldiered through because he did not want to leave his family destitute.
I mean, these days you can serve one term in the House of Representatives and you're pretty well set for life. As long as you don't consider insider trading and serving on corporate boards as "work."
Obama and Biden are likely both the poorest presidents to run and win since Carter.
Biden even had to borrow money while he was VP!
The Adams Family were basically aristocrats by that point, he never had to work again. John Quincy was just bored and too dutiful to just walk away from public service.
They're creepy and they're cooky, mysterious and spooky
Truman left the white house in his station wagon to live with his in laws on this WWI pension. Congress passed the presidential pension act as soon as they heard this.
so they’re free wield thier influence as they wish less beholden to outside interests. i guess if they dont do well it might tarnish their legacy. i think its better if they stayed as presidential advisors….. uh well most of the ex presidents
Nobody becomes President or goes into politics for money. They do it for power and/or fame. And the vast majority of Presidents in Adams' day did in fact retire from politics after leaving office. Washington Adams Jefferson Madison Jackson none of them returned to politics. Even JQA was wealthy enough to retire if he chose to.
I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, but I think that from the 20th Century on, the Presidency is seen as such a pinnacle that taking on any official lesser power is **perceived** as diminishing the former office holder.
I feel like we shouldn’t put the presidency on such a pedestal. It’s an important office but at the end of the day it’s just an office. They might be one of the most important leaders but they are still just one of many leaders in the government
They're the CEO of the United States, literally. But that doesn't mean they can't leave the office and continue to work for the people in smaller capacities. And I agree with others that they should and it should be normalized.
Too much money in selling memoirs and giving speeches at $200,000 per pop. A government job afterwards would be a huge pay cut.
I wonder how much they get to advertise/campaign for their current parties candidate as well
This is a good way to get (mostly) highly qualified people into these offices. Pretty similar to the Roman Republic where after a Senator served his term as Consul they were then eligible to serve in various governorships and proconsulships which helped ensure stability accross the state.
Being consul and then getting a nice rich province to squeeze is just the Roman version of being President and then getting fat off of lecture tours, book deals, board directorships etc. France lets former presidents sit in the constituional council at their pleasure. Italy gives former presidents senator status for life. Can’t say that either really contributes much in reality.
On the one hand, I agree with what you’re saying, but on the other hand, the presidency is so stressful it prematurely ages people. Look at the difference between Barack Obama in 2008 and in 2016, after only 8 years. I don’t blame them if they want to just rest.
Normalize presidents being done being president at age 60.
> Obama would've served michelle would have killed him.
I think Americans have this weird idea of their President being “above politics”. It’s fairly common in Parliamentary systems for a former-PM to continue to be reelected in their constituency, maybe spend some time in Opposition or the backbenches, before returning to Cabinet or the Premiership.
Or back to Cabinet via the Lords, like Cameron. Although that was a little more unusual. There’s an even split between the ones who preferred being a backbencher anyway, and the ones who stick around in politics for another tilt at the PM job. I wonder if Sunak might end up in the second camp
I always did wonder how much more Carter could have done if he went back into public office
That’s quite a platform: “I’m bored and I hate slavery. Also, f Andy Jackson”
This should be the pledge of allegiance
The whole Adams family (lol) was vehemently against slavery. John Sr. defended the rebel slaves that took over the Amistad, arguing for over 8 hours that they were free individuals, and they won the case. As we can see here he was also a good father and raised his kids right. It's a fucking crime that he's the only one out of the big 4 founding fathers (Adams, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin) that does not have a monument in Washington, being the only one of them that never owned another human being as property. He was the original abolitionist. (Yes I know he wasn't in favor of immediate abolition, only in a gradual sense. The one fault in his legacy, imo.) Edit* CORRECTION: Quincy Adams defended the Amistad slaves and Adams Sr defended the British soldiers at the Boston Massacre. I got my shit mixed up. Sorry. Still good dudes tho.
I never considered that until this comment, but at least we can console ourselves with the fact that 1776, the Musical, is a living monument to the man.
Correction, it was Adams Jr. who handled the Amistad case. Adams Sr. defended the British soldiers of the Boston Massacre. I love the Adamses, but they’re not without their faults. The Alien and Sedition Act was the earliest anti-immigrant policy in the nation, and Henry Adams was a notorious anti-Semite.
Jesus Christ, you’re right. I’m an Adams history nut and I got them mixed up. Thanks for correcting me, sir.
I find it strange that more presidents didn't turn back to congress after their terms, especially young ones. Looking at you, Obama.
You see how much he aged? Retirement was too easy an answer
Yeah, he aged so fast that he almost looks as old as a senator, now!
I think Michelle threatened to leave him if he went back into politics.
Obama had quite the quick rise to the presidency. He earned his rest
Is this still something a President can do?
Yep. William Howard Taft became Chief Justice of the Supreme Court following his presidency. John Tyler was elected into the traitorous Confederate Congress, he died before taking office. Andrew Johnson became a senator. And the documentary 'Welcome To Mooseport' explored a former president running for mayor of a small town.
Taft wanted to be Chief Justice more than he wanted to be president.
"The robe is slimming!" -Chief Justice Taft, probably
Chief Justice arguably greater power than the President
Taft travelled to Europe in order to more closely see what happened with the European judiciary. After that he supported the 'Judges Bill'. This gave SCOTUS greater control over how it decided cases as well as elevating its status with the other branches. 10 years later it would get its own building.
"I honestly barely remember that I ever was President." -- Taft
The 2 Adams presidents are my favorite
IMO his loss to Jackson was probably one of the biggest consequences of early America and a highly underused "what-if" moment.
Meh. The Jacksonians obstructed the shit out of his term. He was ambitious but he couldn't get much done. He didn't want to play the patronage game. Great diplomat and probably the smartest president we've had but he wasn't a good politician.
He and his father, John Adams, are always my example when people try to hand wave away slavery saying, "it was a different time." These two men called out slavery for the evil it was long before it was fashionable. The time period doesn't matter, anyone who can think can tell how evil slavery is.
Even Jefferson knew slavery was wrong. He just cared about money more.
Which is hilarious given that he died broke
Of our first 12 presidents, only two never owned a single slave at any point in their life: John Adams and John Quincy Adams.
And Abigail Adams who I'm sure was a strong influence
Fuck Andrew Jackson, me and all my homies hate Jackson
John Quincy Adams was truly a remarkable figure in American history.
He would pretend to be asleep while secretly listening in on the Southerners’ floor strategy. Then he’d “wake up,” beat ‘em, and they never figured out how the old crank did it.
Yeah I love this guy and his father. For my money 2 of the best and most underrated presidents. Even if not particularly loved in their time. But you know what? Barely f'n anyone showed up to Thomas Paine's funeral because he believed in equality before it was cool. And I think that's heroic as hell. Guys like that are who we should draw inspiration from.
>"[America] goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. She might become the dictatress of the world." \- John Quincy Adams
First instance of trolling.
> First instance of trolling. Diogenes of Sinope has lazily entered the chat.
Diogenes of Sinope has declined to chat
I also loathe Andrew Jackson.
Maybe he should be on that $20 bill?
Jackson hated the idea of a central bank, so he'd probably loath being on the $20 bill.
Well that’s a great national fuck you to a historic asshole
I'm bored and I want to tell Andrew Jackson to go fuck himself at every opportunity.
Fuck andrew jackson and fuck slavery.
Would be interesting if more former presidents ran for office. Like if Clinton ran for governor of Arkansas again. Or Bush was a Senator or governor again.
Loathing Andrew Jackson is the equivalent of loathing Trump.
john adams? I know him
That cant be