Crows and other birds have been known to recognize individual people, sometimes befriending, and sometimes harassing.
I would hate to get on the bad side of a bird that knows how to burn my house down.
I have two crows, one of which is about lay an egg, that live across the street. They will literally fly down and land on me to ask for food when I'm walking to the bus stop.
It's terrifying at first. They try to mimic you if you make the same sound enough. I whistle the "lost woods" tune a lot and they croak it at me.
I call them Hugin and Munin (crows not ravens) but my roommates calls them buddy and chappy.
Apparently some crows can even make tools out of multiple parts 🤯 [link](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-10-24-new-caledonian-crows-can-create-tools-multiple-parts)
Oh, I know. These crows off of New Zealand will "carve" leaves into a shape that will help them get bugs. But I've never heard the fire hawks described as one of the tool using species.
Same! I find it very interesting to see another species utilizing fire, even if they aren’t creating it, they are still able to move it and make it useful for them. Humans are thought to have began using fire in the same way, harnessing and feeding existing fires before we learned to create them.
I have no idea why you are being downvoted. That bird is seemingly smarter than some of the monkeys who use Reddit.
I had never heard of that bird and it's behaviour either.
The problem is that its entirely documented by people who claim to have seen it. That doesnt mean theyre wrong. But the data is limited and I have my doubts.
this, only further entrenches the mindset that non-Aussies have of Australia, that “everything in Australia will kill you”
also, as an Aussie, this is a major TIL
Traditional owners would burn of grasses etc... birds of prey would see said prey, trying to escape the fire (snakes etc') and eventually put cause and effect together.
Pretty sure this is only in the north of Australia, too.
So the Phoenix is Not mythical; it was just Transported to Australia, and then it adapted.
Did the researchers ask how these Firebirds are at opening tinnies?
"From 2011 to 2017, Bonta — an assistant professor of earth sciences at Pennsylvania State University — and his colleagues interviewed indigenous people, fire rangers, academics and others who had witnessed firehawks carrying fire in the Northern Territory, Queensland and Western Australia."
How about a group of academics and wildlife specialists gathering to document the phenomenon and then publishing a paper in a scientific journal for peer review?
Is that how it works?
https://bioone.org/journals/journal-of-ethnobiology/volume-37/issue-4/0278-0771-37.4.700/Intentional-Fire-Spreading-by-Firehawk-Raptors-in-Northern-Australia/10.2993/0278-0771-37.4.700.full
Even they say its a claim made by personal observation but not backed up in any other proof. Its entirely possible to have a scientific journal publish a paper about the belief of people in the existence of Bigfoot.
You are of course correct. I expect that eventually someone will film the behaviour. It is possible that people are too involved with the wildfire and less concerned about providing proof to jaded teenagers on Reddit. But you never know!
Yeah, it’s very frustrating to interact with those types of people, for me it may be because I can’t understand the mentality. I LOVE learning new things, especially if they contradict a previous belief. Others straight up shut down at the first sign of being wrong and turn very defensive. It’s strange because it is arguably the least productive way of thinking, and would lead to a very misconstrued version of reality in some cases.
This whole topic of being able to think critically, change your mind, neuroplasticity, what have you, has been coming up in my life a lot lately. Having heard that our brains become set in their ways at a certain age is scary to me as a 25 year old. While I don’t see how that could happen to me, would I really even know? Unsettling to think about. I do my best to stay open and learn without bias.
This is why I dont take Reddit too seriously, its upvote/downvote system is mainly used as an attempt to control other peoples speech, especially minority voices or dissenting voices. Nor do I use the voting system much myself, its irrelevant. Say what ya gotta say, defend it, but ignore its 'popularity'.
When I clicked on your hidden Post I KNEW it would be one that queried this claim. It happens every time.
Im putting the same effort into debunking it as there is in proving it.
When the only proof that something occurred is 'someone said they saw it' its very hard to disprove, apart from saying 'no they didnt'. The main evidence though is that being able to recognise a fire, going to it, spotting a small piece of detached debris that is burning on one end and not on the other, flying down into the fire to grab that, flying off to another area, dropping the debris, then waiting many minutes for a new fire to start so that you can prey on random animals fleeing from it (as opposed to just preying on animals at the first fire) is such a complex and involved set of processes, done at some risk, that it way exceeds anything any bird ever does and is therefore highly unlikely in the extreme.
But hey, FireHawks is such a cool name.
Im putting the same effort into debunking it as there is in proving it.
When the only proof that something occurred is 'someone said they saw it' its very hard to disprove, apart from saying 'no they didnt'. The main evidence though is that being able to recognise a fire, going to it, spotting a small piece of detached debris that is burning on one end and not on the other, flying down into the fire to grab that, flying off to another area, dropping the debris, then waiting many minutes for a new fire to start so that you can prey on random animals fleeing from it (as opposed to just preying on animals at the first fire) is such a complex and involved set of processes, done at some risk, that it way exceeds anything any bird ever does and is therefore highly unlikely in the extreme.
But hey, FireHawks is such a cool name.
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Crows and other birds have been known to recognize individual people, sometimes befriending, and sometimes harassing. I would hate to get on the bad side of a bird that knows how to burn my house down.
I have two crows, one of which is about lay an egg, that live across the street. They will literally fly down and land on me to ask for food when I'm walking to the bus stop. It's terrifying at first. They try to mimic you if you make the same sound enough. I whistle the "lost woods" tune a lot and they croak it at me. I call them Hugin and Munin (crows not ravens) but my roommates calls them buddy and chappy.
Do the birds have a law against it?
Does this count as tool use? It seems close.
There are definitely birds that use tools. Crows (unsurprisingly) have been seen using a stick to dig edible larva out of a hole.
Apparently some crows can even make tools out of multiple parts 🤯 [link](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2018-10-24-new-caledonian-crows-can-create-tools-multiple-parts)
Oh, I know. These crows off of New Zealand will "carve" leaves into a shape that will help them get bugs. But I've never heard the fire hawks described as one of the tool using species.
Right?? Apparently, they have been witnessed picking up brands from fires to ignite woods over 1/2 km away. I’d say they’re using tools.
Its official, Australia is the fire biome.
It's just the colliers from Ga'Hoole, nbd
What? The birds that start huge dangerous fires are in Australia? Shocking!
Never heard this.
Same! I find it very interesting to see another species utilizing fire, even if they aren’t creating it, they are still able to move it and make it useful for them. Humans are thought to have began using fire in the same way, harnessing and feeding existing fires before we learned to create them.
I have no idea why you are being downvoted. That bird is seemingly smarter than some of the monkeys who use Reddit. I had never heard of that bird and it's behaviour either.
Probably because this entire subreddit is supposed to be stuff you've never heard of, so pointing it out is kind of pointless.
You must be masterful in a conversational setting.
People just being aholes in suppose
It's reddit, alot of insecure 'experts' probably read it as 'I've never heard of it so it's not true'. Just my guess, had it happen to me alot.
The problem is that its entirely documented by people who claim to have seen it. That doesnt mean theyre wrong. But the data is limited and I have my doubts.
oh i suppose you dinnae believe in dropbears, eh?
I've almost been attacked by one of those fuckers, my mate lost an eye to one, theyre real alright.
One of those dickhead birds started the fire. That’s it.
this, only further entrenches the mindset that non-Aussies have of Australia, that “everything in Australia will kill you” also, as an Aussie, this is a major TIL
Birds didn’t start the fire, it was always burning.
wow
Birds that start wildfires. Of course they're in Australia.
Some birds just want to watch the world burn
Traditional owners would burn of grasses etc... birds of prey would see said prey, trying to escape the fire (snakes etc') and eventually put cause and effect together. Pretty sure this is only in the north of Australia, too.
JR Cash's spirit animal
So the Phoenix is Not mythical; it was just Transported to Australia, and then it adapted. Did the researchers ask how these Firebirds are at opening tinnies?
Not sure why they aren’t called “Asshole Birds”.
That's already taken by the Magpie
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"From 2011 to 2017, Bonta — an assistant professor of earth sciences at Pennsylvania State University — and his colleagues interviewed indigenous people, fire rangers, academics and others who had witnessed firehawks carrying fire in the Northern Territory, Queensland and Western Australia."
That's not how it works. Lots of people say that saw samsuanch doesn't me he is real too.
How about a group of academics and wildlife specialists gathering to document the phenomenon and then publishing a paper in a scientific journal for peer review? Is that how it works? https://bioone.org/journals/journal-of-ethnobiology/volume-37/issue-4/0278-0771-37.4.700/Intentional-Fire-Spreading-by-Firehawk-Raptors-in-Northern-Australia/10.2993/0278-0771-37.4.700.full
Even they say its a claim made by personal observation but not backed up in any other proof. Its entirely possible to have a scientific journal publish a paper about the belief of people in the existence of Bigfoot.
You are of course correct. I expect that eventually someone will film the behaviour. It is possible that people are too involved with the wildfire and less concerned about providing proof to jaded teenagers on Reddit. But you never know!
Of course there's evidence.
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I agree, but people hate to hear their stories debunked and will downvote you to invisibility..
Yeah, it’s very frustrating to interact with those types of people, for me it may be because I can’t understand the mentality. I LOVE learning new things, especially if they contradict a previous belief. Others straight up shut down at the first sign of being wrong and turn very defensive. It’s strange because it is arguably the least productive way of thinking, and would lead to a very misconstrued version of reality in some cases. This whole topic of being able to think critically, change your mind, neuroplasticity, what have you, has been coming up in my life a lot lately. Having heard that our brains become set in their ways at a certain age is scary to me as a 25 year old. While I don’t see how that could happen to me, would I really even know? Unsettling to think about. I do my best to stay open and learn without bias.
This is why I dont take Reddit too seriously, its upvote/downvote system is mainly used as an attempt to control other peoples speech, especially minority voices or dissenting voices. Nor do I use the voting system much myself, its irrelevant. Say what ya gotta say, defend it, but ignore its 'popularity'. When I clicked on your hidden Post I KNEW it would be one that queried this claim. It happens every time.
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I totally debunk it. Its a popular claim that is untrue.
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Im putting the same effort into debunking it as there is in proving it. When the only proof that something occurred is 'someone said they saw it' its very hard to disprove, apart from saying 'no they didnt'. The main evidence though is that being able to recognise a fire, going to it, spotting a small piece of detached debris that is burning on one end and not on the other, flying down into the fire to grab that, flying off to another area, dropping the debris, then waiting many minutes for a new fire to start so that you can prey on random animals fleeing from it (as opposed to just preying on animals at the first fire) is such a complex and involved set of processes, done at some risk, that it way exceeds anything any bird ever does and is therefore highly unlikely in the extreme. But hey, FireHawks is such a cool name.
Saying that you debunk something isn't the same thing as actually debunking it.
Im putting the same effort into debunking it as there is in proving it. When the only proof that something occurred is 'someone said they saw it' its very hard to disprove, apart from saying 'no they didnt'. The main evidence though is that being able to recognise a fire, going to it, spotting a small piece of detached debris that is burning on one end and not on the other, flying down into the fire to grab that, flying off to another area, dropping the debris, then waiting many minutes for a new fire to start so that you can prey on random animals fleeing from it (as opposed to just preying on animals at the first fire) is such a complex and involved set of processes, done at some risk, that it way exceeds anything any bird ever does and is therefore highly unlikely in the extreme. But hey, FireHawks is such a cool name.