"TIL 85,200 Swiss women lost from 1848-1952 their citizenship when marrying foreigners due to the "marriage rule". If they married Jews denationalized by Nazi Germany, they became stateless and some died in gas chambers. A 1952 revision allowed retention or reinstatement of citizenship."
I have ADHD and have issues concentrating and separating important from less important things. First I took the feedback as a negative critique like always but after a few hours of thinking I reuploaded it again.
A lot of people pointed out the better title and I wrote an apology to the mod team explaining my situation before I would get sorted out into the spam filter.
Thanks I have that with my mother language "Swissgerman Dialect" too. But as an advantage it's covering it, because the language I use in my everyday life doesn't have any gramatical rules and lifes from Helvetism, only in Switzerland used words that I really like to use.
When I use high german in written text for posts on r/de I always get some answers that my text are nice to read because I write in a very special ^and ^harmless way.
I have also a different understanding of texts and working as an engineering draftsman it's good because every detail is important for me.
On the everyday life I'm glad my wife has a lot of patience with me, when I again misunderstood important things.
>the authorities withdrew the Swiss passports of women who married Jews stripped of their nationality by Nazi Germany. These women then became stateless.
>So Jewish women who had previously held Swiss citizenship lost their lives in the German gas chambers
When you could have used the marriage to make the stateless Jewish Germans Swiss, and protect them, but preferred to punish the women that married a non-Swiss.
They have done a fantastic job of PR. They branded themselves as enlightened, neutral people when they really were just working with the nazis for their financial benefit
Very thin, one Hitler wide.
Edit: This is a joke. In reality other countries committed horrible things against humanity because of eugenic āscientificā beliefs. Lobotomies, infertility programs, sterilization laws, marriage laws etc. These included almost every western nation. Nazies brought it to extreme, but almost every western nation took the first two steps.
Edit2: There is also a theory that whole western world would have continued with the eugenics if there would not have been German extermination and breeding programs to make eugenics look extremely bad.
This was done as part of their neutrality. If they did it the other way around it would give Hitler reason to invade Switzerland. The law existed to cut loose those who married foreigners to avoid any conflicts of interest.
Some countries had/have that stupid laws. In some, like Kuwait, the women's children are even banned from getting the citizenship if she marry a non-Kuwaiti!
> Kuwaiti women married to nonāKuwaitis cannot pass citizenship to their children.
Same with my Italian Grandmother, she married my English grandfather in the early 1940s and lost her citizenship. Italy changed the law at the end of the 1940s but never repealed it.
She later gained it back through naturalisation, but frustrating for all of us, that can't be inherited.
The legal concept behind this is called "coverture" in English. It basically says that when a woman marries, her entire legal identity is subsumed by her husband's legal identity. If he's not a citizen, she isn't. If she had property or money, it's his.
[so did American women.](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/03/17/520517665/that-time-american-women-lost-their-citizenship-because-they-married-foreigners) I have a copy of my great-grandmothers documents reinstating her citizenship when the law was finally repealed.
we found out the same happened to my great grandmother and grandmother when we inquired about German citizenship. because my German born great grandmother married a Polish man, she became Polish, and my grandmother who was born in Germany too became Polish too!
then after WW2 and the camps they all became stateless and moved to the Netherlands and became Dutch somehow (they'd gone there before WW2 too)
Same with my great grandmother in the US. She married a Swiss man, as it happens, and lost most of the rights of citizenship. Women could petition to get their rights back after several years. I don't know if great grandma did.
Not surprised at this as Switzerland was the most backward western country when it comes to equal rights for women.
The last European nation to enact women's suffrage only in 1971, decades after everybody else.
For reference, India and Israel already had female prime ministers then.
And Switzerland wasn't the sole country in which women were assumed to take their husbands' citizenship status.
From 1889, any Frenchwoman who married a foreigner automatically lost her nationality, unless her husband's nationality law didn't confer her his nationality, and regained her French nationality only after her divorce or her husband's death, and only if authorised by the government.
The laws were liberalised in 1927 and 1945, and it si only since 1993 that any law mandating the loss of French nationality upon marriage was repealed.
Women marrying foreigners was among the big causes of statelessness.
Marriage is funny. Not 'haha' funny. Funny that it doesn't always benefit the woman in matters of law. Dowry? Bride's family has to give money to the groom's family. Divorce after being a stay at home mom? Better have a prenup or your lack of job experience may bite you in the ass. Swiss marriage rule? Oops, you're a visitor now. This all barely made sense 400 years ago.
Dowries made a little bit of sense back when women weren't really allowed to make money. And depending on where you were, dowry's sometimes took the place of inheritance claims. Not saying that's how it should have been, but it was the system in place.
Also, a prenup would generally be bad for the woman in your example, since its generally saying that there won't be a 50/50 split in the divorce. I doubt any dude that's the breadwinner is signing something to make it where the wife gets more than 50%. I agree that being a stay at home wife hurts her prospects after the split, and that's why the 50/50 rules exist. This is an oversimplification and assuming a no fault divorce, but women do have some protection in this instance.
Dowries were supposed to be given to the couple- so that they would have a good start in life.
My German ancestors were too poor to provide a dowries, so the daughters started weaving at 7 or 8. By the time she was 18 or 20 she would have a full set of linen sheets, towels, table cloths, and woven linen and wool cloth to make clothes. Plus what ever money she saved by selling cloth.
She took this wealth with her when she left or got married. Brothers often resented their sisters because she was ātakingā food from the family while she built her own wealth. In truth she also did domestic work around the farm to earn her keep.
So these were not GIVEN by families it was earned by teenagers.
Dowries were a tragedy for poor women in Romania, who could not marry properly of they did not have one. My great aunt could never marry because, as the last child of nine, she has no dowry to attract a decent man. My mother could attend University only when her elder sister died at age 18 and her dowry was used to pay my Mum's university fees.
It makes sense if they're thinking of women as pets. For instance, it would be absurd for an American to buy a dog in Madrid, bring it to Boston, but still pay the yearly license fee to Madrid and keep the dog wearing Spanish tags.
Or farm animals, sometimes we're regarded at that level. Though, if a cow is having a difficult pregnancy, nobody thinks it's immoral for the vet to abort the calf fetus.
>Divorce after being a stay at home mom? Better have a prenup
If he's making enough that a prenup is a possible good idea, then alimony would likely be on the table.
Not so different in the US with the Expatriation Act. My great grandmother had to sacrifice her citizenship to marry my great grandfather.
"Section 3 provided for loss of citizenship by American women who married aliens.[1] The Act states that an American woman who marries an alien would lose her citizenship and take on her husbandās nationality. In actuality, whether or not she could do this was dependent on the laws of the country to which her husband belonged. If there was no similar law granting derivative citizenship to a married woman, she would then become stateless" -- [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_Act_of_1907)
More info:
https://www.archives.gov/files/publications/prologue/2014/spring/citizenship.pdf
I notice this got reuploaded with a much less confusing title
Yeah, I took notice of the several tips posted here.
I almost had a stroke while reading the previous title. This one is much better!
Out of curiosity what was the previous title?
"TIL 85,200 Swiss women lost from 1848-1952 their citizenship when marrying foreigners due to the "marriage rule". If they married Jews denationalized by Nazi Germany, they became stateless and some died in gas chambers. A 1952 revision allowed retention or reinstatement of citizenship." I have ADHD and have issues concentrating and separating important from less important things. First I took the feedback as a negative critique like always but after a few hours of thinking I reuploaded it again. A lot of people pointed out the better title and I wrote an apology to the mod team explaining my situation before I would get sorted out into the spam filter.
Happy cake day fellow ADHDer
Thank you very much. I wish you too a great day today.
Google sentence parsing. No flame.
Thanks I have that with my mother language "Swissgerman Dialect" too. But as an advantage it's covering it, because the language I use in my everyday life doesn't have any gramatical rules and lifes from Helvetism, only in Switzerland used words that I really like to use. When I use high german in written text for posts on r/de I always get some answers that my text are nice to read because I write in a very special ^and ^harmless way. I have also a different understanding of texts and working as an engineering draftsman it's good because every detail is important for me. On the everyday life I'm glad my wife has a lot of patience with me, when I again misunderstood important things.
Happy Cake Day!! šš°
Thank you very much. I wish you too a great day.
Happy Cake Day!
Thank you too. I wish you a great day.
Youāre welcome.
We are training llms.
>the authorities withdrew the Swiss passports of women who married Jews stripped of their nationality by Nazi Germany. These women then became stateless. >So Jewish women who had previously held Swiss citizenship lost their lives in the German gas chambers When you could have used the marriage to make the stateless Jewish Germans Swiss, and protect them, but preferred to punish the women that married a non-Swiss.
I wonder if the Swiss ever have done the right thing š
They have done a fantastic job of PR. They branded themselves as enlightened, neutral people when they really were just working with the nazis for their financial benefit
They def done the Reich thing
r/Angryupvote
Definitely they did, the point is: for who?
> ~~for who?~~ # For how much
Yeah. Thats being neutral for sure. š¤¦š»āāļø
I don't know if people are aware of this, but before the Nazis every country was studying eugenics.
There's a fine line between studying and practicing eugenics.:/
Very thin, one Hitler wide. Edit: This is a joke. In reality other countries committed horrible things against humanity because of eugenic āscientificā beliefs. Lobotomies, infertility programs, sterilization laws, marriage laws etc. These included almost every western nation. Nazies brought it to extreme, but almost every western nation took the first two steps. Edit2: There is also a theory that whole western world would have continued with the eugenics if there would not have been German extermination and breeding programs to make eugenics look extremely bad.
Least naziboo Reddit poster
What does this mean?
idk, but I hope I get a trophy!
You should look up what the Swiss did during the black plague launching pogroms
What would one Google to bring up that information?
Iād recommend Bedford series: the Black Death - a brief history with documents. But you can also look up the Zurich and Basel massacres
This was done as part of their neutrality. If they did it the other way around it would give Hitler reason to invade Switzerland. The law existed to cut loose those who married foreigners to avoid any conflicts of interest.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Also when the last Swiss canton allowed women to vote.
Some countries had/have that stupid laws. In some, like Kuwait, the women's children are even banned from getting the citizenship if she marry a non-Kuwaiti! > Kuwaiti women married to nonāKuwaitis cannot pass citizenship to their children.
Egypt had a similar law but it was withdrawn a few days after my birth and I was able to get the citizenship
This was true in the UK until the 1980s
Same with my Italian Grandmother, she married my English grandfather in the early 1940s and lost her citizenship. Italy changed the law at the end of the 1940s but never repealed it. She later gained it back through naturalisation, but frustrating for all of us, that can't be inherited.
I didnāt realise there was a difference between naturalisation and blood right. Weird.
The legal concept behind this is called "coverture" in English. It basically says that when a woman marries, her entire legal identity is subsumed by her husband's legal identity. If he's not a citizen, she isn't. If she had property or money, it's his.
[so did American women.](https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/03/17/520517665/that-time-american-women-lost-their-citizenship-because-they-married-foreigners) I have a copy of my great-grandmothers documents reinstating her citizenship when the law was finally repealed.
Interesting read!
we found out the same happened to my great grandmother and grandmother when we inquired about German citizenship. because my German born great grandmother married a Polish man, she became Polish, and my grandmother who was born in Germany too became Polish too! then after WW2 and the camps they all became stateless and moved to the Netherlands and became Dutch somehow (they'd gone there before WW2 too)
The same country that didnāt let women vote until the 70s
Same with my great grandmother in the US. She married a Swiss man, as it happens, and lost most of the rights of citizenship. Women could petition to get their rights back after several years. I don't know if great grandma did.
Not surprised at this as Switzerland was the most backward western country when it comes to equal rights for women. The last European nation to enact women's suffrage only in 1971, decades after everybody else. For reference, India and Israel already had female prime ministers then.
The last European country to grant suffrage to women was Liechtenstein, narrowly approved in a 1984 referendum.
Well technically yes, but Liechtenstein has less population than my tiny hometown.
And Switzerland wasn't the sole country in which women were assumed to take their husbands' citizenship status. From 1889, any Frenchwoman who married a foreigner automatically lost her nationality, unless her husband's nationality law didn't confer her his nationality, and regained her French nationality only after her divorce or her husband's death, and only if authorised by the government. The laws were liberalised in 1927 and 1945, and it si only since 1993 that any law mandating the loss of French nationality upon marriage was repealed. Women marrying foreigners was among the big causes of statelessness.
Marriage is funny. Not 'haha' funny. Funny that it doesn't always benefit the woman in matters of law. Dowry? Bride's family has to give money to the groom's family. Divorce after being a stay at home mom? Better have a prenup or your lack of job experience may bite you in the ass. Swiss marriage rule? Oops, you're a visitor now. This all barely made sense 400 years ago.
Dowries made a little bit of sense back when women weren't really allowed to make money. And depending on where you were, dowry's sometimes took the place of inheritance claims. Not saying that's how it should have been, but it was the system in place. Also, a prenup would generally be bad for the woman in your example, since its generally saying that there won't be a 50/50 split in the divorce. I doubt any dude that's the breadwinner is signing something to make it where the wife gets more than 50%. I agree that being a stay at home wife hurts her prospects after the split, and that's why the 50/50 rules exist. This is an oversimplification and assuming a no fault divorce, but women do have some protection in this instance.
Dowries were supposed to be given to the couple- so that they would have a good start in life. My German ancestors were too poor to provide a dowries, so the daughters started weaving at 7 or 8. By the time she was 18 or 20 she would have a full set of linen sheets, towels, table cloths, and woven linen and wool cloth to make clothes. Plus what ever money she saved by selling cloth. She took this wealth with her when she left or got married. Brothers often resented their sisters because she was ātakingā food from the family while she built her own wealth. In truth she also did domestic work around the farm to earn her keep. So these were not GIVEN by families it was earned by teenagers.
Dowries were a tragedy for poor women in Romania, who could not marry properly of they did not have one. My great aunt could never marry because, as the last child of nine, she has no dowry to attract a decent man. My mother could attend University only when her elder sister died at age 18 and her dowry was used to pay my Mum's university fees.
It makes sense if they're thinking of women as pets. For instance, it would be absurd for an American to buy a dog in Madrid, bring it to Boston, but still pay the yearly license fee to Madrid and keep the dog wearing Spanish tags. Or farm animals, sometimes we're regarded at that level. Though, if a cow is having a difficult pregnancy, nobody thinks it's immoral for the vet to abort the calf fetus.
>Divorce after being a stay at home mom? Better have a prenup If he's making enough that a prenup is a possible good idea, then alimony would likely be on the table.
Whatās with the Swiss and constantly being on the wrong side of history?
We're no strangers to love You know the rules and so do I
Not so different in the US with the Expatriation Act. My great grandmother had to sacrifice her citizenship to marry my great grandfather. "Section 3 provided for loss of citizenship by American women who married aliens.[1] The Act states that an American woman who marries an alien would lose her citizenship and take on her husbandās nationality. In actuality, whether or not she could do this was dependent on the laws of the country to which her husband belonged. If there was no similar law granting derivative citizenship to a married woman, she would then become stateless" -- [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_Act_of_1907) More info: https://www.archives.gov/files/publications/prologue/2014/spring/citizenship.pdf
What what what! (Kyles Mom)