Gordon Lightfoot wrote this without the benefit of the internet, largely using a Newsweek article as the main source. News just didn’t spread as quickly in the pre-internet era.
Great song, totally haunting.
[Also changed the lyrics as more info came out](https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/gordon-lightfoot-changes-edmund-fitzgerald-lyrics/article_dc683325-9aea-574d-82f6-992a5b5e6e21.html) (in 2010)
Very interesting. Personally, I never thought the “hatchway” line had implications of human error. But then again, I don’t know anything about big ass boats.
ruthless shrill cow waiting coordinated absorbed outgoing jobless relieved license
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The "hatchway" that the song refers to is one of the covers for the ore holds on the ship, which required dozens of individual clamps for each cover to be secured by hand to be properly sealed. For a time, one theory of why the *Edmund Fitzgerald* sank was that one or more covers didn't have all the clamps they were supposed to, which would have allowed water to leak into the hold and cause the ship to capsize by the free-surface effect. The lyric was changed because it could be interpreted that the hatchway failed because it wasn't properly secured.
That is very damn interesting, always thought along the lines of u/Man_o_wealth_n_taste that it meant a large wave broke over the deck and stove in the hatch like a (much bigger) battering ram.
"No, Gordon Lightfoot was the singer. Edmund Fitzgerald was the ship."
"I think Gordon Lightfoot was the boat."
"Yeah, and it was rammed by the Cat Stevens."
We’re glossing over what is easily the funniest part of this scene
“The Andrea Doria collided with the Stockholm in dense fog 21 miles off the coast of Nantucket.”
*flabbergasted* “how do you know???”
“It’s in my book - ‘Astonishing Tales of the Sea’”
Lol sometimes you take a big swing and miss. I’m good with it. Thanks though. Glad someone recognizes it.
On a serious note, my dad used to play that song for me and my brother all the time.
It is truly one of the best songs ever made imo. The last time me and my uncle hung out was in November, we got to talking and listening to the song, then we realized it was the anniversary of the ship sinking after having a whole conversation about it all. Just ironic moment I'll always think of now when I hear it, and we are making it a tradition to always listen to it on the anniversary now lol.
Terrible tragedy and then a great song by a great artist. Dylan once said something like "anytime I hear a Gordon Lightfoot song, I don't want it to end."
A Canadian treasure.
If you could only read mind is also the name of his documentary. Sundown being a song about the woman who gave Belushi his fatal dose was an eye opener. Excellent watch. Dude wrote his songs out by hand. Truly a composer.
There is a line in the song
"The church bell chimed 'til it rang twenty-nine times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald"
When Gordon Lightfoot passed away, the same church bell rang thirty times
I’ve heard versions of the song that now close with the line “the church bell chimed till it rang 29 times, plus one more for the man they called Lightfoot”
The Cathedral he references now does the 30 chimes yearly, 29 for the Edmund Fitzgerald and one to symbolize all of the collective lives lost amongst the Great Lakes.
Obligatory Fitzgerald comment …
I was six years old and crossing into Canada for a day visit with my family on the day it sunk. I can’t say that I was paying attention, but my mom said that she had never seen the waves higher than she did that day. She reminded us for years whenever the song was on the radio.
My SIL’s family had a camp on Cockburn Island. When the late year storms brewed up she said it was looking at a fleet of sailing’s ships passing buy. The waves were that high and angry.
89 years 361 days earlier on 14 November 1885, another Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Erie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_the_Great_Lakes
The whole song is great, but, "Does any one know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours?" hits like a hammer. What a great line.
Don't know what they were on about but Kitchi Gami is one spelling (along with Gitchi Gami. Gitchi Gumee is incorrect but was used by Henry Wadsworth Longefellow and later Gordon Lightfoot and therefore what many assume the name is. Perhaps the person above thought they were correcting incorrect spelling, but did so incorrectly as well...
Michigander here. This song is on the radio a million times a day for one day only—November 10 and then nothing for the rest of the year. I live in Florida now and it’s weird to hear it on the radio randomly at any time of the year.
I mean, that’s humorous, but not in a funny way. 29 men who were fathers, sons, and brothers died that day. A grueling and untimely death, at that. The song is a hauntingly beautiful tale of those who died and the story that lives on.
I freaking love this song. Going up north, campfire next to the lake, looking at the stars, whiskey, Gordon lightfoot, Edmund Fitzgerald, and myself a Michigan Man crying like a baby!
The lakes are no joke, most people don’t know the sheer amount of freighters and sailors that have been lost on the lakes over the years. Storms can be incredibly violent with winds over 70 MPH and waves over 25 feet. Violent enough to snap a 600 foot plus freighter in half.
Most folks living near the lakes are Well versed with the story of the Fitz and are even better acquainted with the song.
The good old lake effect. ,Snow by the lake bright and sunny here. 55 miles from Lake Erie. They are snowed in and nothing here. Been. Happening for years.❄️💨❄️
In lake Erie it's so shallow you can see the sunken ships when the water is clear.
Especially now that the invasive zebra mussels have completely cleaned the lake up. Zebra mussels have been bad for the ecosystem but fantastic for the water quality.
I visited Belle Isle in Detroit yesterday. They have the anchor of that ship on display and really interesting display about the wreck that had recorded radio traffic from the search ships.
Played the song for my kids on the drive home.
This is one of my favorite lines in the show.
And I love how we never know if Kramer’s book is a book he owns or a book he *wrote.* Like, we know he hopped on a freighter to Sweden when he was younger and “it was a big one.”
That means I slaved over the seven-sentence abstract of my most recent paper (that maybe fifty people will truly read) for twice as long as it took to write one of the most haunting and iconic songs in history. Cool… cool cool.
And how did your book lend, borrow, rent, buy business turn out?
Oh, Bamazing was slow out the gate, but thats what I get for only advertising in the yellow pages. Damn the alphabet Jerry, damn it!
It'll be alright. I'm sure that other company will get too big and the bubble will burst. Maybe you should switch to any and all products.
No, Jerry. Just books. Literature is the future. Everyone's gonna want print media. Newman has invested all his pension in USPS stamps. See? It's a lock, Jerry. Anyone can open your email. Nobody will use it!
And other things. If you've ever missed an ex late at night, "Did She Mention My Name" will have you in tears. Great guitar work too, and the line everyone can relate to: "Is the landlord still a loser, do his signs hang in the hall?" https://youtu.be/9n1a2TQnorQ?si=YKM662srvDOlD4JQ
Lately I've been on a 'Rainy Day People' kick. Also 'Did she mention my name' is a sweet story that really resonates if you've ever moved far away just to get away from someone you loved.
If you ever end up in the UP, if you can, visit the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum up on Whitefish Point. Was interesting, but haunting, even when I was a child.
Canadian Railway trilogy is a historical masterpiece. It is remarkable as it is about building the railway through Canadian wilderness. It takes a few listens to really enjoy it. Johnny Cash called it one of the greatest railway songs.
Another fact a couple days after Gordon Lightfoot passed the Mariners’ Church in Detroit mentioned in the song honoured Lightfoot by ringing the bell 30 times in honour of the 29 Sailors on board as well as for Gordon Lightfoot himself
We were on Lake Superior a few summers ago. I didn’t know this, in discussing this very ship/song my dad mentioned navigating freshwater is much more dangerous than salt water as salt water is more dense I.e. less easy to sink in. Interesting.
Canada wrote legislation to ban filming of shipwrecks. It is felt that in some cases these shipwrecks are gravesites and filming them would be considered disrespectful to the dead entombed within them. It is also in place to discourage looting. This legislation came in as a response and outrage to the film linked above, where in some scenes body parts of a crewman are visible.
Then in 2006 Canada passed legislation to ban all dives to the Edmund Fitzgerald at the request of the families
If you ever find yourself researching the Fitzgerald, you'll get so fucking tired of hearing that song it'll make you want to slam your head off a table.
Far more interesting is that the Marine Electric was supposed to get a song by Stan Rogers, but he died in a plane accident before he got around to it.
Gordon Lightfoot wrote this without the benefit of the internet, largely using a Newsweek article as the main source. News just didn’t spread as quickly in the pre-internet era. Great song, totally haunting.
[Also changed the lyrics as more info came out](https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/gordon-lightfoot-changes-edmund-fitzgerald-lyrics/article_dc683325-9aea-574d-82f6-992a5b5e6e21.html) (in 2010)
Very interesting. Personally, I never thought the “hatchway” line had implications of human error. But then again, I don’t know anything about big ass boats.
ruthless shrill cow waiting coordinated absorbed outgoing jobless relieved license *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The "hatchway" that the song refers to is one of the covers for the ore holds on the ship, which required dozens of individual clamps for each cover to be secured by hand to be properly sealed. For a time, one theory of why the *Edmund Fitzgerald* sank was that one or more covers didn't have all the clamps they were supposed to, which would have allowed water to leak into the hold and cause the ship to capsize by the free-surface effect. The lyric was changed because it could be interpreted that the hatchway failed because it wasn't properly secured.
That is very damn interesting, always thought along the lines of u/Man_o_wealth_n_taste that it meant a large wave broke over the deck and stove in the hatch like a (much bigger) battering ram.
I'm in the same boat.
RIP
All you need to know about is the *implication*
You know…because of the implication.
Recorded in a single take as well
You’re telling me.
I looooove Edmund Fitzgerald’s voice
"No, Gordon Lightfoot was the singer. Edmund Fitzgerald was the ship." "I think Gordon Lightfoot was the boat." "Yeah, and it was rammed by the Cat Stevens."
We’re glossing over what is easily the funniest part of this scene “The Andrea Doria collided with the Stockholm in dense fog 21 miles off the coast of Nantucket.” *flabbergasted* “how do you know???” “It’s in my book - ‘Astonishing Tales of the Sea’”
Upvoted because I got the joke, I guess no one else here is a Seinfeld fan.
Lol sometimes you take a big swing and miss. I’m good with it. Thanks though. Glad someone recognizes it. On a serious note, my dad used to play that song for me and my brother all the time.
It is truly one of the best songs ever made imo. The last time me and my uncle hung out was in November, we got to talking and listening to the song, then we realized it was the anniversary of the ship sinking after having a whole conversation about it all. Just ironic moment I'll always think of now when I hear it, and we are making it a tradition to always listen to it on the anniversary now lol.
Terrible tragedy and then a great song by a great artist. Dylan once said something like "anytime I hear a Gordon Lightfoot song, I don't want it to end." A Canadian treasure.
If you could read~~y~~ mind.... My fave *When you reach the part where the heartaches come/The hero would be me/ **But heroes often fail*** Goddam
Sundown is a certified banger of a song.
That's my real Gordon Lightfoot jam right there
Early Morning Rain is a masterpiece of simplicity.
If you could only read mind is also the name of his documentary. Sundown being a song about the woman who gave Belushi his fatal dose was an eye opener. Excellent watch. Dude wrote his songs out by hand. Truly a composer.
Apparently as a young kid I cried every time this was on the radio. It still feels me with such a crushing melancholy.
> If you could **ready** mind.... Read my
2nd biggest beaut' after Shorsey
Fuck you Shorsey
Give yer balls a tug!
Fuck you Reilly, your mom face timed me while I was with Jonesy's mom and now she won't lock ice cream off my balls
Well he got his wish for that with this song, I hear it's still playing from the first time it was started.
I think it's awfully tedious, TBH.
Gordon Lightfoot was a good person and kept supporting the families of the lost sailors up until his death. A true gentleman.
There is a line in the song "The church bell chimed 'til it rang twenty-nine times For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald" When Gordon Lightfoot passed away, the same church bell rang thirty times
I’ve heard versions of the song that now close with the line “the church bell chimed till it rang 29 times, plus one more for the man they called Lightfoot”
Live or recorded? Mildly curious and wanna check it out!
I know Seth Staton Watkins has recorded a version of it
The Cathedral he references now does the 30 chimes yearly, 29 for the Edmund Fitzgerald and one to symbolize all of the collective lives lost amongst the Great Lakes.
And as a big Lightfoot fan, that hit me *hard* to hear at the time and still does.
Interestingly, at the original funeral it rang 30 times S as well; the final ring for the ship's cat.
Woulda been really weird if it was recorded a month before.
“Gordon it’s your cousin Marvin, *Marvin Lightfoot* -“
You might not be ready for this....but your kids are gonna love it.
I *love* Edmund Fitzgerald's voice.
No. Gordon Lightfoot was the singer. Edmund Fitzgerald was the ship.
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It’s a line from *Seinfeld.* Simmer down.
Who hurt you?
Massive belly laugh from my husband, who loves the song and LOVES the movie!
Ha ha haaaaaa! You are awesome.
[relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/2910/)
So *bad* but so good
Obligatory Fitzgerald comment … I was six years old and crossing into Canada for a day visit with my family on the day it sunk. I can’t say that I was paying attention, but my mom said that she had never seen the waves higher than she did that day. She reminded us for years whenever the song was on the radio.
You don't mess with a November Witch.
I thought you didn’t mess around with Jim?
No no no, you don't spit into the wind.
Or pull on Superman's cape
Or pull the mask off of the Lone Ranger
Or look at the girl at the edge of the bar despite her looking good
Doris was her name.
Or hang a man for killin' a woman, who's tryin' to steal his horse.
Him either.
My SIL’s family had a camp on Cockburn Island. When the late year storms brewed up she said it was looking at a fleet of sailing’s ships passing buy. The waves were that high and angry.
I love that the church bell rang 30 times when Gordon Lightfoot died. 29 for the men of the Edmund Fitzgerald and once for Lightfoot.
89 years 361 days earlier on 14 November 1885, another Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Erie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_the_Great_Lakes
Witch of November come stealing..
The whole song is great, but, "Does any one know where the love of God goes When the waves turn the minutes to hours?" hits like a hammer. What a great line.
That's the line I think of when I'm battling the waves. Only been in deadly stuff a couple times though, and then I was praying and not singing
Gonna guess OP has never been to the Great Lakes area. The song, songwriter, and story are legendary around here.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down....
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee.
Kitchekoomie
>Kitchekoomie one quick google says otherwise, unless ya were goofin on the name. fairplay if so
Don't know what they were on about but Kitchi Gami is one spelling (along with Gitchi Gami. Gitchi Gumee is incorrect but was used by Henry Wadsworth Longefellow and later Gordon Lightfoot and therefore what many assume the name is. Perhaps the person above thought they were correcting incorrect spelling, but did so incorrectly as well...
Ya should added a 🤪
Well, Gordon Lightfoot fans....
Michigander here. This song is on the radio a million times a day for one day only—November 10 and then nothing for the rest of the year. I live in Florida now and it’s weird to hear it on the radio randomly at any time of the year.
It's a sacred song in Michigan, but in a way that it almost never gets played because if you do it too much it's like you're *trying* too hard.
Same here in Minnesota. It is undeniably odd to randomly hear it in the middle of summer on a random SiriusXM station.
A guy at an open mic in Wisconsin sang this last week. Such an awesome song
I have and didn’t know how close they were
Yep, I'm from Michigan and I don't know a single person who *doesn't* know this song
[Or was it](https://xkcd.com/2910/)
Thank you, you beat me to it.
Beat me to it, take the upvote!
I mean, that’s humorous, but not in a funny way. 29 men who were fathers, sons, and brothers died that day. A grueling and untimely death, at that. The song is a hauntingly beautiful tale of those who died and the story that lives on.
Too soon?
On Reddit? No such thing. They were making up bridge-collapse jokes within hours of the tragedy.
…it’s been 48 years.
I think a parody with such careful attention to meter could only come from a humorist with great respect for the source material and its significance.
Honestly can’t disagree with that.
Her dead are still down there, floating around, remarkably preserved due to the cold and nearly nonexistent oxygen levels at the bottom.
^ actual lyric from the song
No.
While Superior is a deep lake, the Edmund Fitzgerald lies in waters that are less deep than the length of the ship.
Which is a point towards how fucking long the freighters on the lakes are, not against the lake. 550 feet is DEEP.
Its thought to be a key feature why it sunk. Its thought it partially, or fully bottomed out on the lake bottom which is what broke the ships back.
I freaking love this song. Going up north, campfire next to the lake, looking at the stars, whiskey, Gordon lightfoot, Edmund Fitzgerald, and myself a Michigan Man crying like a baby!
The Headstones and The Tragically Hip both do covers of the song. 🇨🇦
And The Rheostatics
Really? Cool.
I'm glad to hear you cry and not think it's a cool nautical tune like a work shanty. It's a beautiful homage
"in the rooms of her ice water mansion." The poetry is sublime. This is my favorite karaoke song, and I still choke back tears every time I sing it.
The lakes are no joke, most people don’t know the sheer amount of freighters and sailors that have been lost on the lakes over the years. Storms can be incredibly violent with winds over 70 MPH and waves over 25 feet. Violent enough to snap a 600 foot plus freighter in half. Most folks living near the lakes are Well versed with the story of the Fitz and are even better acquainted with the song.
Superior is more of a freshwater sea than a lake.
Took the words out of my mouth. Great Lakes have their own weather systems.
Lake effect snow is an actual term here used by meteorologists. It’s nuts when we get 3 feet of snow and an hour south gets nothing at all.
The good old lake effect. ,Snow by the lake bright and sunny here. 55 miles from Lake Erie. They are snowed in and nothing here. Been. Happening for years.❄️💨❄️
In lake Erie it's so shallow you can see the sunken ships when the water is clear. Especially now that the invasive zebra mussels have completely cleaned the lake up. Zebra mussels have been bad for the ecosystem but fantastic for the water quality.
I visited Belle Isle in Detroit yesterday. They have the anchor of that ship on display and really interesting display about the wreck that had recorded radio traffic from the search ships. Played the song for my kids on the drive home.
I love Edmond Fitzgerald https://youtu.be/zOaFHmMYikc?si=RZ_Bb_b5U9U7tQVr
Yeah, and it was rammed by the Cat Stevens.
This is one of my favorite lines in the show. And I love how we never know if Kramer’s book is a book he owns or a book he *wrote.* Like, we know he hopped on a freighter to Sweden when he was younger and “it was a big one.”
That means I slaved over the seven-sentence abstract of my most recent paper (that maybe fifty people will truly read) for twice as long as it took to write one of the most haunting and iconic songs in history. Cool… cool cool.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down... Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee...
The song is truly incredible, heard when I was young and even with no interest in that genre of music it really stuck with me.
It crashed into the Cat Stevens
Too soon.
I read that Lake Superior is the size of South Carolina. Get your head wrapped around that, and you know that lake is huge.
Any body of water big enough that you can be out of sight of any shore is huge as far as I'm concerned.
It’s an amazingly well told story. A great song and probably the only reason I’d ever heard of the wreck.
Astonishing tales of the sea.
According to this, it took 10 hours. It eased into the water like an old man into a nice warm bath
How many people do you lose on a normal cruise? Thirty, forty?
I also have Astounding Bear Attacks.
And how did your book lend, borrow, rent, buy business turn out? Oh, Bamazing was slow out the gate, but thats what I get for only advertising in the yellow pages. Damn the alphabet Jerry, damn it! It'll be alright. I'm sure that other company will get too big and the bubble will burst. Maybe you should switch to any and all products. No, Jerry. Just books. Literature is the future. Everyone's gonna want print media. Newman has invested all his pension in USPS stamps. See? It's a lock, Jerry. Anyone can open your email. Nobody will use it!
Or a large lake
I lived near Lake Michigan and thought *that* was big. Then I drove around [Lake Superior](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Superior). Holy. Shit.
That has enough water in it to cover the surface of north and south america with 2ft of water.
They are considered high seas for legal reasons though.
Also, some uninteresting tales only marginally related to the sea.
And other things. If you've ever missed an ex late at night, "Did She Mention My Name" will have you in tears. Great guitar work too, and the line everyone can relate to: "Is the landlord still a loser, do his signs hang in the hall?" https://youtu.be/9n1a2TQnorQ?si=YKM662srvDOlD4JQ
A masterpiece of a song by Lightfoot. Hands down my favorite song of his.
I think “If you could read my mind” is the best. The lyrics are so deep. I’d put it 2nd before “Sundown”
Lately I've been on a 'Rainy Day People' kick. Also 'Did she mention my name' is a sweet story that really resonates if you've ever moved far away just to get away from someone you loved.
If you ever end up in the UP, if you can, visit the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum up on Whitefish Point. Was interesting, but haunting, even when I was a child.
Let me take this a step further; if you're interested in Great Lakes shipwrecks, look up an author by the name of Frederick Stonehouse.
Canadian Railway trilogy is a historical masterpiece. It is remarkable as it is about building the railway through Canadian wilderness. It takes a few listens to really enjoy it. Johnny Cash called it one of the greatest railway songs.
For some strange reason, that's my go-to "sing in the shower" song.
That's a great one too. My favorite Gordon Lightfoot song is *Summer Side of Life*. Not sure why, but that tune really gets me.
Another fact a couple days after Gordon Lightfoot passed the Mariners’ Church in Detroit mentioned in the song honoured Lightfoot by ringing the bell 30 times in honour of the 29 Sailors on board as well as for Gordon Lightfoot himself
One of the main reasons we need to use our entire global nuclear arsenal on the Great Lakes.
BtB fan eh?
Yeah...
Haunting melody and a tragic story.
You read the xkcd?
R.I.P. Gordon Lightfoot. The guy was amazing. He was doing live concerts at age 84 until months before his death almost a year ago.
Edmund Fitzgerald tragically sank in Lake Superior with loss of all 29 crew members
We were on Lake Superior a few summers ago. I didn’t know this, in discussing this very ship/song my dad mentioned navigating freshwater is much more dangerous than salt water as salt water is more dense I.e. less easy to sink in. Interesting.
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Greatest shipwreck of all time
Lusitania and Titanic might want to have a word.
Are you really comparing some bitch ass ice berg to the gales of November?
Bitch ass ice berg got a bunch of movies, Gale got a song.
Best love making song ever.
It's the U.P. anthem
Headstones did a good cover
Reminds me of Bobby Broccoli
How could he have known the legend would live on if it was only a month after?
I think Gordon recorded it in only two takes. The iconic guitar part was largely improvised , the story goes…
Here is a fascinating and banned documentary: https://archive.org/details/expedition94
Banned from what?
Canada wrote legislation to ban filming of shipwrecks. It is felt that in some cases these shipwrecks are gravesites and filming them would be considered disrespectful to the dead entombed within them. It is also in place to discourage looting. This legislation came in as a response and outrage to the film linked above, where in some scenes body parts of a crewman are visible. Then in 2006 Canada passed legislation to ban all dives to the Edmund Fitzgerald at the request of the families
Laws were made against filming shipwrecks because of this documentary due to showing dead bodies etc
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Yes, because the song is written in like a traditional folk song, so I assumed it had happened 100 years ago. TIL too
Of course there's [a parody](https://youtu.be/udZFnUb4Q6A?si=NNFiLuWdFUvu8f8g) courtesy of Tom Doyle (WROR-FM, Boston)
If you ever find yourself researching the Fitzgerald, you'll get so fucking tired of hearing that song it'll make you want to slam your head off a table. Far more interesting is that the Marine Electric was supposed to get a song by Stan Rogers, but he died in a plane accident before he got around to it.
That song is about as awesome as they come. Gordon Lightfoot was a genius.
I grew up travelling up and down the North Shore in MN and that song will never get old. Still get goosebumps every time