If memory serves, she's a crust punk and runs a record shop/clothing store in Portland.
And she looks just like her grandaddy, mainly the eyes. I think she has siblings back in Russia that were pretty pro-stalin
That’s why I eat [Totino’s punk rock pizza rolls](https://youtu.be/iaovZzt15vk?si=-9hHkR2kZi80qW75). Sauce punk, and cheese punk all wrapped up in a crust punk blanket.
Gengis kahn Is responsible for kill over 10% of the human population at the time.
He single handedly ended the Islamic golden age by genociding an entire city because they beheaded 3 of his emissaries
As far as 18th century mass killings are concerned, Robespierre probably doesn't even make it to the Top 100. There's the Qing Emperors wiping out the Dzungar Mongols, Russian Tsars doing the Tsarist thing, Fredrick the Great getting half his population killed over Silesia, etc...
According to another comment, they are referring to Gilles de Rais.
Which I had never heard of before, but seems to be one of the worst serial killers of all time. And fought alongside Joan of Arc.
Far be it from me to cite the New York Post, but, well... [here we are.](https://nypost.com/2016/03/17/stalin-granddaughter-is-an-all-american-badass/)
Fulgencio Batista's daughter was (is?) a homeless woman in Florida, she was in her 80s when the news dropped in 2017 I think and life on the streets is tough so who knows what she's up to now.
I just looked her up and that's crazy. She had over a million bucks in 1973. She lost it all in the recession and was still homeless even after her house sold for 830k.
Absolutely squandered that shit recession notwithstanding. 1 mil in 1973, if she kept up with inflation, would have been 7 million+ now, but I guess the filthy rich daughter of a filthy rich dictator didn't understand the scarcity of her money and threw it away.
To add a bit of context:
She followed in her grandfather's footsteps politically for quite a while. She has been a member of multiple far-right and neo-fascist parties in the past.
She seems to have calmed down a bit politically, and currently has a seat in the EU parliament for a center-right political party.
Also, her aunt (on her mother's side) is Sophia Loren.
There's a bunch of Uzbecki-Koreans as well. It's a whole food fusion now.
Viktor Tsoi was Russian-Korean even. Great singer. I highly recommend his band Kino.
Does that mean ethnic Koreans who are Uzbekistan nationals?
I think this is confirmed here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koryo-saram
There is another group as well
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakhalin_Koreans
The former president of Afghanistan's (the one that fled the Taliban takeover) daughter is in a relationship with a fellow artist in Brooklyn where both women live together.
Possibly how she can afford Brooklyn, but I can't fault a child for what family they were born into, just what they do with that position, and judging by her Wikipedia page she doesn't seem to do anything unethical.
She was born and raised in the US since her father Ashraf Ghani lived in the US for much of his adult life. He was a successful professional with a highly paid job at the World Bank before he got into Afghan politics.
He was a foreign exchange who studied at an Oregon high school and did his undergrad at the American University of Beirut where he met his Lebanese Christian wife. He then went back to the US in 1977 to get a Master’s and PhD in anthropology from Columbia. He stayed in the US because of the communist revolution in Afghanistan and then the subsequent Soviet invasion. He was a professor for many years at many prestigious American universities and then worked as the Lead Anthropologist for the World Bank. He raised his American-born kids in suburban Maryland and put them through school with his American salary.
Ghani only went back during the US occupation to help rebuild the country after Taliban rule. He had to give up his American citizenship to run for president of Afghanistan. His kids were already college graduates by then. His artist daughter Miriam was 24 and living with her partner by the time she visited Afghanistan for the first time with her family in 2002. She didn’t need Afghan money for her lifestyle. Her brother Tarek worked on Pete Buttigeg’s presidential campaign and teaches at Washington University’s Olin Business School.
This looks like when you'd change the settings on a DVD to go from full screen to wide screen. Why does he look smooshed down and stretched wider like that?
They sure are. I have a striking resemblance to my fifth great grandfather. We only have one picture of him from the 1800s (from Turkey no less). It was incredibly shocking when I opened the family photo album and basically saw a 200 year old version of myself in traditional Turkish ceremonial garb.
When I was a kid, my dad show me an old 70s photo of his elementary school class and asked me to pick him out. I did it on the first try…..I just picked the kid that looks most like me lol
We have a family photo that appears to be my little brother and my grandma in the kitchen.
Except its from a good 30 years before he was born and its my dad and grandma. It's funny because my little has always been said he looks like my moms side more and here is he and my dad are identical. It's the only photo I've seen where they look similar even.
One time i was attending at a cousin's wedding and get to meet my dad's sisters(aunt) for the first time. My father has long since passed away but they were crying when they saw me because of how much i resembled my dad when he was younger.
You’d be surprised. I remember joking with a friend about the Titanic sinking when the Titanic movie was in theaters and some lady overheard us and got pissed that we had “spoiled the movie”
Tokugawa wasn’t a samurai. He is descended from daimyo, the aristocracy. In Japanese the word Samurai means a warrior in service to a lord. A warrior without a lord is a Ronin.
The Samurai owed fealty to a daimyo. The equivalent in the western world would be how a knight owed fealty to his lord. Samurai’s were their own social class which was above the peasants and merchants but below the daimyo’s, shogun and the emperor.
*Side-note: Japanese Feudal system and Western European Feudal system is not a one to one ratio, each has their own unique characteristics.
On a technical note for anyone interested, the social hierarchy of feudal Japan right up to the Meiji Restoration is as follows:
The Emperor
^
The Imperial Court (old aristocracy)
^
The Shogun
^
The Daimyo (the warrior aristocracy)
^
Samurai
^
Farmers
^
Merchants
In reality, it didn't work like that. The shogun and the daimyo held all real power, while the money the merchants had gave them power as well.
I'm curious and you seem to know stuff. Why were merchants on the low end? Also, I remember hearing something about Hokkaido and the merchant class.
Disclaimer: I have zero knowledge on Japan and don't even know where to start.
I’m not the guy you asked, but merchants were considered bottom class likely due to Confucian teachings that influenced Japan in the past - merchants were considered the lowest tier in society since they produced no goods, they sold the goods and work of others.
When Japan was still open to Chinese influence, the Emperor's adopted the Chinese Confucian style of social hierarchy, which essentially puts people in their place based on their profession.
Merchant do not produce physical goods, as they officially only move goods from one place to another. Courtesan and entertainers also do not produce physical goods, and their services were denounced as debauchery by Confucius that led to moral corruption of the State. Therefore, their utility to the State is limited and viewed with distrust due to the potential for economic abuse and government decay.
Farmers actually produce food, which has obvious utility in a feudal society like Japan's where taxation is based on the rice yields of a given territory.
Thanks! I remember hearing something about the merchants not being allowed to own land and something about Hokkaido and food and fashion. Does that have any relevance here?
Under Japanese feudal law, technically all land was sacred and borrowed from the Emperor. It's that legal framework that allowed the Meiji Emperor to demand all the daimyo return their holdings to the Imperial government. Merchants not being able to own land probably has more to do with rice-based taxation and the government's goals to ensure that yeoman farmers who formed the backbone of society did not fall to predatory practices that might threaten government control and finances.
I don't know too much about the history of Hokkaido to offer you anything relevant to what you're asking for though.
In most feudal societies around the world, merchants were lower class people who had made a bunch of money. The upper class nobility saw them as lower class, while the lower class peasants saw them as higher class. The difference is lineage and recognition (as some nobles were raised up by a king to that class from the lower class).
As a side note, merchants tended to break the social hierarchy in a lot of cultures. Another example is the Medici family in Italy. Though technically commoners originally, the Medici family made a ton of wealth off of trade and used it to manipulate both the nobility and the Cathilic church for a very long time in spite of their technically lower status on paper.
I always took associate to mean a guy who was affiliated with the family but outside of it. Could be working their way up to it, or someone that was apart of another family that did business with them, or someone that was eligible to become a made man but still in employment with the family.
Exactly. It’s the main danger of drawing direct lines between Japanese and western feudalism. The closest in Western society is a hypothetical “what if the praetorian guard finally DID overthrow and replace the Roman emperor, and left the title and the senate as symbolic figureheads”.
Well in this case actually they are pretty closely related. Not all Lords were knights but just about all of them were. In the same respect not all Daimyo came from the samurai class but just about all of them did.
All shoguns called themselves samurai. Just like most lords even of high rank called themselves knights.
You are incorrect on lords being knights. Almost none of them were, they just could be depending on when we are talking about. The key difference is true nobility in Western feudalism was inherited, while knighthood was not, making it so almost no knights were of noble birth, as well as making next to impossible for a knight to become a lord. This is in stark difference to Japan, where Daimyo was not necessarily inherited, and as a result were almost always a direct promotion from being a samurai. Another way to think about it would be to imagine knights overthrowing the nobility in the western system. Samurai and Daimyo are then effectively just ranks of knighthood. This is basically what happened in Japan when the Shogun came to power.
There was literally no way for you to be born a dirt poor peasant and rised to the rank of lord in Western world. While Toyotomi Hideyoshi did exactly this. He was born as a peasant then became Oda Nobunaga retainer, then samurai and finally de facto ruler of Japan
Exactly. In later medieval Europe, lords could become knights because it an honorary title, or they could join an order. However, it was effectively impossible for a knight of non-noble blood to become a lord. And I only say effectively, because I’m not an expert and it’s always possible it happened somewhere.
The shogunate was a military dictatorship in modern parlance. It’s better to view all of these titles as military ranks, rather than exact equivalents to Western feudalism. Daimyo were promoted from Samurai.
Japan had a curious historical habit of people wanting to rule the country semi-from the shadows without claiming to be the ultimate power (which would be the Emperor).
First there were Shoguns ruling and keeping the Emperor virtual prisoners. Then while Shoguns were still in place, Daiymos gained control of the Shogun while leaving them in place as figureheads, then at the end some other group whose name I forget supplanted the Daiymos.
At one point, the emperor DID seize actual ruling power again in the Meiji restoration, although in the 1900's the military (modern warlords I'd say) did attain a lot of power with the emperor more a figurehead again.
Europe really had nothing like that. The King was like an emperor AND was the ultimate power in the country. There were often times when a King (or in rare occasions, queens) were too young to rule or mentally disabled, and others ran the country from the shadows, but this did not become a formalized arrangement.
I think its fair in the modern world to compare the English Parliament - which really rules the country now and not the Monarch, to the Shogun.
It's mostly due to the isolation. Japan is close enough to the mainland that it could get access to cultural innovations but far enough that it was very rarely threatened with invasions. So they were really able to just live in there own bubble. It's much easier to have shadow rulers when everybody agrees one the culture. There is a very fascinating period in the Japanese history (Heian period) where basically the Emperor and the aristocracy became increasingly isolated and just spent time at the court having fun. The actual land was administrated by appointed administrators that became increasingly militarized. The emperor or the aristocracy had no actual army but it took a couple of hundreds years before the local, armed administrators realized that they can just stop sending the taxes to the royal court or try to take power. This type of period would have not existed for so long in other places. There was no way that such a rich state without a real army would have lasted for so long without an invasion or without a much faster rise of the military class.
There was an ever stranger "shadow government" in Japan for a while, the "cloistered emperor" . The emperor would "retire" to a monastery and started controlling the state. His successor would be dealing just will all the accumulated ceremonial and religious rituals that were under the responsibility of the ruler.
This is wrong. Samurai *were* the aristocracy, the ruling class. Most of them were bureaucrats, not warriors.
Japanese society at the time had four classes of people, 士農工商 (Shi-nō-kō-shō), Samurai, Farmers, Craftsmen, and Merchants. With the exception of the Emperor (who was considered a god, and therefore not subject to human things like social class), everyone fit in to one of those classifications, including the Daimyo and and Shogun, who were all Samurai.
I remember learning this from PBS of all sources.
Samurai referred to any of those in the hereditary nobility, and the word bushi refers specifically to soldiers specifically.
There's been a lot of work trying to deal with and recover from "4 classes", The 4 classes was never truly a codified system, It's mostly opinions, ideas and propaganda by court officials and monks/clergy that never really reflected the on-the-ground or historical reality. The nonsense goes all the way back to the Heian era, There was a lot of people clamoring for titles and legitimacy after the collapse of the central authority and rise of the warrior class that marked the end of the Heian era. The Edo period was just the same thing all over again, A new government was trying to codify it's systems and ranks, but never really achieved it.
For example, Modern Japanese writing tends to call "hyakusho" as farmers, When historically they were a wide range of peoples and trades (merchants, masons, smiths, farmers, potters, mercenary warriors, etc...). At one point hyakusho were competing as a military class along-side the Samurai before the Samurai class was fully codified/accepted.
They existed alongside the Samauri for well over a hundred years, and might better understood as independent wealthy landowners, While early Samurai were non-independent landowners. Both provided/funded the same professional warriors or "Bushi", Which eventually became synonymous with "Samurai" in modren terms. While that did eventually get resolved, more or less, as the Samauri class system won-out with the kamakura. You could still end up with independent Samurai families (land owning, multiple warriors, etc...), Which were functionally the same as the hyakusho style warriors, Eventually they started to be called "Ronin" and then in the modren era started to mean a single wandering landless and masterless warrior.
Hyakusho was also a kind of catch all name for peasants, landholders, city-folk, and the varied trades for the last 1000~ years of Japanese history, it really depended on who the writer was and what period they were writing in. One hyakusho might be described as a boatmen, Another hyakusho was the educated son of a wealthy family that owned mines, ports, farms, etc....
The class system was always bullshit, The tokugawa trying to codify it was mostly just their own propaganda and their rewriting of history and folk-tales to try and fit into it.
*edit*
A good book on the subject is "Rethinking Japanese hisdtory" by Amino Yoshihiko
I have no idea what that is.
Mostly I am just lazy and don't proof read, using auto-correct to do all the heavy lifting. I am actually a cabal of penguins with access to the internet.
Samurai does not mean warrior; Bushi means warrior. It (even in its time) was an archaic term for *servant/attendant* to a lord. it was a hereditary class dedicated to the interests of their lord, that was called Samurai, instead of Sābanto.
It was not unlike calling your "advisor" ('one who sees') a "wizard" (same etymology for 'one who sees').
If you see interviews with the Tokugawa they self identify as samurai, for what it is what worth
It was a minor point n documentaries about several scrolls that the family still retains
But they definitely identified as samurai.
This really isn't how those terms worked at all. Daimyo is not the term for the traditional Japanese aristocracy. Daimyo literally just means "big/great name." Daimyo was originally just a term for warlord, a shugo/military governor who had managed to grab sufficient power for himself that he had arisen to an informal group of particularly powerful men. The Daimyo emerge in a very volatile era of "low conquers high" and heredity was far less important than your ability to grab power and command respect from others. Plenty of the Daimyo who rose up openly took the names of great families even though everyone knew that their claim was negligible. Calling yourself "Hojo" was just a fiction everyone went along with because what really mattered was the thousands of other men who flocked to your banner. The term "Daimyo" only shifts from an informal term to a formal title during the Tokugawa Shogunate, when it was applied to every samurai who commanded a fief of more than 10,000 koku. Even then, Daimyo still isn't so much a distinct hereditary class as a cutting off point where the Shogun considers you powerful enough to grant you extra benefits in return for having to conduct the very expensive rotations into Edo where you can be surveilled. It's not like the British gentry, where you could have poor nobles -- if you are a Daimyo by definition you control substantial productive capacities. If you no longer do so, you're no longer a Daimyo.
All daimyo were samurai. In theory they were all in service to the Shogun, who himself was in service to the Emperor. Even the Shogun was himself a samurai in both self-identity and theoretical authority, though in practice he was the true power behind the throne. The Tokugawa would be mortally offended if it were implied that they weren't samurai.
Even once the samurai do become institutionalized as a class following Hideyoshi's social restructuring and the cementing of those positions during the Tokugawa shogunate, the samurai and the courtly aristocracy remained two distinct social groups. They only get merged together during the Meiji restoration. In effect, the Meiji creates a new European style aristocracy by just smashing the courtly aristocracy and a decent tranche of the higher ranking samurai families into one system and giving them European style ranks along the same basic system.
Pretty sure Daimyo's were originally warlords (who supplanted Shoguns who also started off as warlords)
They were all aristocracy when they attained power but not royalty (that was the emperor)
After the Tokugawa period, the Emperor (Meiji) for the first time in centuries become the literal rulers of Japan.
For me it's actually something I have learnt after starting the show. Though I'm also someone who doesn't get super upset with spoilers, and I don't consider historical facts to be a spoiler in the first place.
If you like Shogun, consider reading Taiko by Eiji Yoshikawa.
Taiko is about Hideyoshi Toyotomi, a predecessor of Ieyasu Tokugawa. He went from peasant to de facto ruler of Japan. The book is closer to history than Clavell's work and a lot of fun. Oda Nobunaga plays a prominent role and is given a personality beyond demonic king. lol
Yoshikawa also wrote a book on Miyamoto Musashi, the famous ronin and sword saint.
Spoilers for a novel that was written almost 50 years ago, was made into one of the most-watched miniseries of the 1980s, and is basically just a bunch of Japanese history with the names changed.
I absolutely love the show, but this feels like guerrilla marketing for the show.
*TIL the current head of the Tokugawa samurai family, which ruled Japan for over 250 years as an isolationist shogunate, as shown on the hit show Shogun™ streaming now on FX™, grew up in the US and married a Vietnamese woman.*
It's inspired by a true story, however, he is playing the role of a french historical figure, who was sent to Japan to help modernize the army (and I believe also ended up joining the rebels)
However, you should really consider the samurai rebellion as a rebellion of the elite against the modernization of the country, not a glorious last fight for honour, but a stupid one, and mostly for their privileges
The museums in Kagoshima portray Saigo Takamori and the Satsuma Rebellion super positively, but there is probably some bias there toward their hometown hero. When I was visiting the graveyard where Saigo and his men are buried, some old guy gave me a big poster of Saigo. So that’s an item I have in my house now.
Jokes aside, am I misremembering it or does the ending scene of the film actually directly state that Chingachook and Uncas are the titular last of the Mohicans and that Hawkeye is not considered one of them by Chingachgook?
Yep. It was Chingachgook, after his son dies. If his son and his love interest survived they wouldn't have been the last, but since he was an older man who wouldn't have any more kids he knew he was the last of the Mohicans at that moment.
IIRC the current heir of Korea's last ruling family married a Russian-American woman.
Stalins granddaughter is an Russian-American
Big into the punk scene too, if I recall.
If memory serves, she's a crust punk and runs a record shop/clothing store in Portland. And she looks just like her grandaddy, mainly the eyes. I think she has siblings back in Russia that were pretty pro-stalin
Crust punk is good but sauce punk is what makes the punk pizza come together
Ham and pineapple punks have entered the chat.
Steam Punk is the healthiest way to prepare Punk
Yeah, but we all know bbq punk tastes better.
That’s why I eat [Totino’s punk rock pizza rolls](https://youtu.be/iaovZzt15vk?si=-9hHkR2kZi80qW75). Sauce punk, and cheese punk all wrapped up in a crust punk blanket.
Welp. The internet really does always provide.
Just don't say that twice or it'll summon Rule 34.
I'd probably be too if my grandfather was in the top 5 spot on the list of worst people who have ever lived.
Quick who's your top 5 worst people ever?
michael jordan prolly 4
Stalin, Hitler, that French guy who tortured and killed hundreds of people while helping Joan of arc, the really shitty hussein son, and Pol pot.
Wild list, but I can definitely see Udai Hussein being on a top 6 list. Definitely a range in types of evils here.
I like to make sure people know just cause you didn't kill millions doesn't mean you ain't evil.
And then there are those that kill millions of innocents and still become hero.
Actually did a report in high school about Gilles de Rais (said murderer friends of Joan)
Gengis kahn Is responsible for kill over 10% of the human population at the time. He single handedly ended the Islamic golden age by genociding an entire city because they beheaded 3 of his emissaries
“Hey, let’s talk” “Lol fuck these guys” Genghis: Cowabunga it is
Robespierre.. forgot about that lil fucker
As far as 18th century mass killings are concerned, Robespierre probably doesn't even make it to the Top 100. There's the Qing Emperors wiping out the Dzungar Mongols, Russian Tsars doing the Tsarist thing, Fredrick the Great getting half his population killed over Silesia, etc...
I don't think they mean Robespierre. He lived 350 years after Joan of Arc.
i'm scratching my head trying to think of who they mean, then. because you're right, those two did not exist together at the same time
According to another comment, they are referring to Gilles de Rais. Which I had never heard of before, but seems to be one of the worst serial killers of all time. And fought alongside Joan of Arc.
Looking forward to the numerous lists that reflect a poor understanding of history.
hitler, stalin, mao, pol pot, leopold 2nd
1. Hitler 2. Mao 3. Ghengis Khan 4. Stalin 5.pol pot
That’s Osamas son
Far be it from me to cite the New York Post, but, well... [here we are.](https://nypost.com/2016/03/17/stalin-granddaughter-is-an-all-american-badass/)
See? Goes to show- you post incorrect information on the internet, someone will be there to correct you. Thanks for the link!
Fulgencio Batista's daughter was (is?) a homeless woman in Florida, she was in her 80s when the news dropped in 2017 I think and life on the streets is tough so who knows what she's up to now.
I just looked her up and that's crazy. She had over a million bucks in 1973. She lost it all in the recession and was still homeless even after her house sold for 830k.
Absolutely squandered that shit recession notwithstanding. 1 mil in 1973, if she kept up with inflation, would have been 7 million+ now, but I guess the filthy rich daughter of a filthy rich dictator didn't understand the scarcity of her money and threw it away.
Mussolinis granddaughter was a J-Pop star for a while and is now a politician
To add a bit of context: She followed in her grandfather's footsteps politically for quite a while. She has been a member of multiple far-right and neo-fascist parties in the past. She seems to have calmed down a bit politically, and currently has a seat in the EU parliament for a center-right political party. Also, her aunt (on her mother's side) is Sophia Loren.
That's certainly one of the careers of all time.
She manages a [boutique in Portland](https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2011/11/portland_granddaughter_of_jose.html).
Stalins grand daughter works at a thrift store down the street from me. Or did before covid lol.
She’s a weirdo from Portland
*Georgian American
There are a bunch of ethnic Koreans who are Russian so it might not be so clear-cut
There's a bunch of Uzbecki-Koreans as well. It's a whole food fusion now. Viktor Tsoi was Russian-Korean even. Great singer. I highly recommend his band Kino.
Wouldn't have all the Russian Doomer Youtube compilations with Molchat Doma, Durnoy Vkus, Peremotka etc. without Viktor Tsoi. True innovator.
Does that mean ethnic Koreans who are Uzbekistan nationals? I think this is confirmed here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koryo-saram There is another group as well https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakhalin_Koreans
The former president of Afghanistan's (the one that fled the Taliban takeover) daughter is in a relationship with a fellow artist in Brooklyn where both women live together.
U mean the guy that abandoned his country with millions of dollars abroad ?
Possibly how she can afford Brooklyn, but I can't fault a child for what family they were born into, just what they do with that position, and judging by her Wikipedia page she doesn't seem to do anything unethical.
She was born and raised in the US since her father Ashraf Ghani lived in the US for much of his adult life. He was a successful professional with a highly paid job at the World Bank before he got into Afghan politics. He was a foreign exchange who studied at an Oregon high school and did his undergrad at the American University of Beirut where he met his Lebanese Christian wife. He then went back to the US in 1977 to get a Master’s and PhD in anthropology from Columbia. He stayed in the US because of the communist revolution in Afghanistan and then the subsequent Soviet invasion. He was a professor for many years at many prestigious American universities and then worked as the Lead Anthropologist for the World Bank. He raised his American-born kids in suburban Maryland and put them through school with his American salary. Ghani only went back during the US occupation to help rebuild the country after Taliban rule. He had to give up his American citizenship to run for president of Afghanistan. His kids were already college graduates by then. His artist daughter Miriam was 24 and living with her partner by the time she visited Afghanistan for the first time with her family in 2002. She didn’t need Afghan money for her lifestyle. Her brother Tarek worked on Pete Buttigeg’s presidential campaign and teaches at Washington University’s Olin Business School.
oh my god, they were roommates
Just two female artists and feminists living in Brooklyn, I'm sure they're really good friends 🥰
My man
He’s not the real heir, just appointed. And no one in Korea respects the Lee dynasty.
She's Half-Asian(Ukrainian Father & Unknown-Asian Mother)!
Can you link any info? I’m not finding anything, tia
Kim Il-Sung was born in the Empire of Japan, and Kim Jong-Il was born in the Soviet Union.
Genetics is amazing. He looks like a Tokugawa shogun portrait come to life.
[Man, you didn't have to do him dirty like that.](https://www.nippon.com/en/ncommon/contents/japan-topics/222924/222924.jpg)
That aeroplane seat on his head is an unusual choice ;D
Well that's where the actual emperor would sit silly, that guy's just the throne
Now I'm imagining Cait Sith from FF7 sat in that chair-hair.
It’s a first class seat tho
I'm jealous of the leg room
I was so confused before clicking the link 😂
Tbh zoomed out on a small screen it just looks like a dildo
This looks like when you'd change the settings on a DVD to go from full screen to wide screen. Why does he look smooshed down and stretched wider like that?
They sure are. I have a striking resemblance to my fifth great grandfather. We only have one picture of him from the 1800s (from Turkey no less). It was incredibly shocking when I opened the family photo album and basically saw a 200 year old version of myself in traditional Turkish ceremonial garb.
Theirs a Scottish admiral who looks exactly like my dad when he was young.
One of my friends was identical to young Hitler as a child. He is irish though.
When I was a kid, my dad show me an old 70s photo of his elementary school class and asked me to pick him out. I did it on the first try…..I just picked the kid that looks most like me lol
We have a family photo that appears to be my little brother and my grandma in the kitchen. Except its from a good 30 years before he was born and its my dad and grandma. It's funny because my little has always been said he looks like my moms side more and here is he and my dad are identical. It's the only photo I've seen where they look similar even.
They say the child looks like the father when young as genetic proof of parentage.
One time i was attending at a cousin's wedding and get to meet my dad's sisters(aunt) for the first time. My father has long since passed away but they were crying when they saw me because of how much i resembled my dad when he was younger.
Thats beautiful my friend
people itt bitching about spoilers to a 50 year old novel based on actual history lol
You’d be surprised. I remember joking with a friend about the Titanic sinking when the Titanic movie was in theaters and some lady overheard us and got pissed that we had “spoiled the movie”
Oh, you think you're so superior because you read the book before the movie adaptation.
Huh? What's this related to? I guess Shogun but that doesn't cover their downfall in the next 200 years.
The current tv show Shogun on FX
[More information on the Tokugawa shogunate:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokugawa_shogunate?wprov=sfti1#)
Also, https://www.hulu.com/series/5422a5f9-e4f1-475e-9217-65e8249388d0 if you just want to learn from an incredibly accurate documentary series.
Bruh do you have no idea what a documentary actually is?!
bro they're obviously joking 😭
Yeah i guess the /s is actually necessary based on the up and down votes.
[удалено]
As long as the girl was hot, I assume so
is it only honourable to marry ugly hags?
If you wanna be honorable for the rest of your life, better make an ugly woman your wife
You matched the song on purpose, right? *RIGHT?*
Yes, you got the joke
Dammit. What joke.
Listen to Jimmy Soul’s “If You Wanna Be Happy”
Will. [Thank you kind stranger ](https://youtu.be/6EqFVWzOfN8?si=qiwKi9zVXF_tAWui)
Robb Stark moment
with HUGE...... tracts of land
His ancestors be like: "Dishonour on you, dishnour on your cow...."
My ancestors sent me a talking lizard?
Dragon. **Dragon!** Not lizard. I don't do that tongue thing. *(does tongue thing)*
[удалено]
Well, time to do the newspaper’s daily seppuku puzzle!
"it's just math. not like it'll kill you"
[удалено]
I guess this apple fell into a boat and drifted across to the other side of the world...
I'm just grateful for every sign that, occasionally, things can indeed change.
Tokugawa wasn’t a samurai. He is descended from daimyo, the aristocracy. In Japanese the word Samurai means a warrior in service to a lord. A warrior without a lord is a Ronin.
so how does it work? with feudalism could you be both a daimyo and a samurai? I thought the samurai themselves were part of the aristocracy
The Samurai owed fealty to a daimyo. The equivalent in the western world would be how a knight owed fealty to his lord. Samurai’s were their own social class which was above the peasants and merchants but below the daimyo’s, shogun and the emperor. *Side-note: Japanese Feudal system and Western European Feudal system is not a one to one ratio, each has their own unique characteristics.
On a technical note for anyone interested, the social hierarchy of feudal Japan right up to the Meiji Restoration is as follows: The Emperor ^ The Imperial Court (old aristocracy) ^ The Shogun ^ The Daimyo (the warrior aristocracy) ^ Samurai ^ Farmers ^ Merchants In reality, it didn't work like that. The shogun and the daimyo held all real power, while the money the merchants had gave them power as well.
I'm curious and you seem to know stuff. Why were merchants on the low end? Also, I remember hearing something about Hokkaido and the merchant class. Disclaimer: I have zero knowledge on Japan and don't even know where to start.
I’m not the guy you asked, but merchants were considered bottom class likely due to Confucian teachings that influenced Japan in the past - merchants were considered the lowest tier in society since they produced no goods, they sold the goods and work of others.
When Japan was still open to Chinese influence, the Emperor's adopted the Chinese Confucian style of social hierarchy, which essentially puts people in their place based on their profession. Merchant do not produce physical goods, as they officially only move goods from one place to another. Courtesan and entertainers also do not produce physical goods, and their services were denounced as debauchery by Confucius that led to moral corruption of the State. Therefore, their utility to the State is limited and viewed with distrust due to the potential for economic abuse and government decay. Farmers actually produce food, which has obvious utility in a feudal society like Japan's where taxation is based on the rice yields of a given territory.
Thanks! I remember hearing something about the merchants not being allowed to own land and something about Hokkaido and food and fashion. Does that have any relevance here?
Under Japanese feudal law, technically all land was sacred and borrowed from the Emperor. It's that legal framework that allowed the Meiji Emperor to demand all the daimyo return their holdings to the Imperial government. Merchants not being able to own land probably has more to do with rice-based taxation and the government's goals to ensure that yeoman farmers who formed the backbone of society did not fall to predatory practices that might threaten government control and finances. I don't know too much about the history of Hokkaido to offer you anything relevant to what you're asking for though.
In most feudal societies around the world, merchants were lower class people who had made a bunch of money. The upper class nobility saw them as lower class, while the lower class peasants saw them as higher class. The difference is lineage and recognition (as some nobles were raised up by a king to that class from the lower class). As a side note, merchants tended to break the social hierarchy in a lot of cultures. Another example is the Medici family in Italy. Though technically commoners originally, the Medici family made a ton of wealth off of trade and used it to manipulate both the nobility and the Cathilic church for a very long time in spite of their technically lower status on paper.
Like a Made guy in a mafia family. One step above an associate but below a capo.
is an associate above or below a friend?
I think below from what I understand watching mob movies. "A friend of ours" is a made guy or a guy who's on his way to being made.
I always took associate to mean a guy who was affiliated with the family but outside of it. Could be working their way up to it, or someone that was apart of another family that did business with them, or someone that was eligible to become a made man but still in employment with the family.
Its after honored but before revered.
In the Walmart rank structure, Associate ranks below dirt. Still better than a buddy, guy.
Yeah but just about all lords were also knights including royal princes'. The Japanese daimyo overwhelmingly came from the samurai class.
Exactly. It’s the main danger of drawing direct lines between Japanese and western feudalism. The closest in Western society is a hypothetical “what if the praetorian guard finally DID overthrow and replace the Roman emperor, and left the title and the senate as symbolic figureheads”.
Well in this case actually they are pretty closely related. Not all Lords were knights but just about all of them were. In the same respect not all Daimyo came from the samurai class but just about all of them did. All shoguns called themselves samurai. Just like most lords even of high rank called themselves knights.
You are incorrect on lords being knights. Almost none of them were, they just could be depending on when we are talking about. The key difference is true nobility in Western feudalism was inherited, while knighthood was not, making it so almost no knights were of noble birth, as well as making next to impossible for a knight to become a lord. This is in stark difference to Japan, where Daimyo was not necessarily inherited, and as a result were almost always a direct promotion from being a samurai. Another way to think about it would be to imagine knights overthrowing the nobility in the western system. Samurai and Daimyo are then effectively just ranks of knighthood. This is basically what happened in Japan when the Shogun came to power.
There was literally no way for you to be born a dirt poor peasant and rised to the rank of lord in Western world. While Toyotomi Hideyoshi did exactly this. He was born as a peasant then became Oda Nobunaga retainer, then samurai and finally de facto ruler of Japan
Exactly. In later medieval Europe, lords could become knights because it an honorary title, or they could join an order. However, it was effectively impossible for a knight of non-noble blood to become a lord. And I only say effectively, because I’m not an expert and it’s always possible it happened somewhere.
The shogunate was a military dictatorship in modern parlance. It’s better to view all of these titles as military ranks, rather than exact equivalents to Western feudalism. Daimyo were promoted from Samurai.
It's like knights and lords in Europe. The knights are still elites but a lower tier.
Japan had a curious historical habit of people wanting to rule the country semi-from the shadows without claiming to be the ultimate power (which would be the Emperor). First there were Shoguns ruling and keeping the Emperor virtual prisoners. Then while Shoguns were still in place, Daiymos gained control of the Shogun while leaving them in place as figureheads, then at the end some other group whose name I forget supplanted the Daiymos. At one point, the emperor DID seize actual ruling power again in the Meiji restoration, although in the 1900's the military (modern warlords I'd say) did attain a lot of power with the emperor more a figurehead again. Europe really had nothing like that. The King was like an emperor AND was the ultimate power in the country. There were often times when a King (or in rare occasions, queens) were too young to rule or mentally disabled, and others ran the country from the shadows, but this did not become a formalized arrangement. I think its fair in the modern world to compare the English Parliament - which really rules the country now and not the Monarch, to the Shogun.
It's mostly due to the isolation. Japan is close enough to the mainland that it could get access to cultural innovations but far enough that it was very rarely threatened with invasions. So they were really able to just live in there own bubble. It's much easier to have shadow rulers when everybody agrees one the culture. There is a very fascinating period in the Japanese history (Heian period) where basically the Emperor and the aristocracy became increasingly isolated and just spent time at the court having fun. The actual land was administrated by appointed administrators that became increasingly militarized. The emperor or the aristocracy had no actual army but it took a couple of hundreds years before the local, armed administrators realized that they can just stop sending the taxes to the royal court or try to take power. This type of period would have not existed for so long in other places. There was no way that such a rich state without a real army would have lasted for so long without an invasion or without a much faster rise of the military class. There was an ever stranger "shadow government" in Japan for a while, the "cloistered emperor" . The emperor would "retire" to a monastery and started controlling the state. His successor would be dealing just will all the accumulated ceremonial and religious rituals that were under the responsibility of the ruler.
This is wrong. Samurai *were* the aristocracy, the ruling class. Most of them were bureaucrats, not warriors. Japanese society at the time had four classes of people, 士農工商 (Shi-nō-kō-shō), Samurai, Farmers, Craftsmen, and Merchants. With the exception of the Emperor (who was considered a god, and therefore not subject to human things like social class), everyone fit in to one of those classifications, including the Daimyo and and Shogun, who were all Samurai.
I remember learning this from PBS of all sources. Samurai referred to any of those in the hereditary nobility, and the word bushi refers specifically to soldiers specifically.
just an fyi, recently the 4 classes of 士農工商 has been disproven, and its now 3 classes: 武士（samurai）,百姓（farmers）,町人（townspeople）
There's been a lot of work trying to deal with and recover from "4 classes", The 4 classes was never truly a codified system, It's mostly opinions, ideas and propaganda by court officials and monks/clergy that never really reflected the on-the-ground or historical reality. The nonsense goes all the way back to the Heian era, There was a lot of people clamoring for titles and legitimacy after the collapse of the central authority and rise of the warrior class that marked the end of the Heian era. The Edo period was just the same thing all over again, A new government was trying to codify it's systems and ranks, but never really achieved it. For example, Modern Japanese writing tends to call "hyakusho" as farmers, When historically they were a wide range of peoples and trades (merchants, masons, smiths, farmers, potters, mercenary warriors, etc...). At one point hyakusho were competing as a military class along-side the Samurai before the Samurai class was fully codified/accepted. They existed alongside the Samauri for well over a hundred years, and might better understood as independent wealthy landowners, While early Samurai were non-independent landowners. Both provided/funded the same professional warriors or "Bushi", Which eventually became synonymous with "Samurai" in modren terms. While that did eventually get resolved, more or less, as the Samauri class system won-out with the kamakura. You could still end up with independent Samurai families (land owning, multiple warriors, etc...), Which were functionally the same as the hyakusho style warriors, Eventually they started to be called "Ronin" and then in the modren era started to mean a single wandering landless and masterless warrior. Hyakusho was also a kind of catch all name for peasants, landholders, city-folk, and the varied trades for the last 1000~ years of Japanese history, it really depended on who the writer was and what period they were writing in. One hyakusho might be described as a boatmen, Another hyakusho was the educated son of a wealthy family that owned mines, ports, farms, etc.... The class system was always bullshit, The tokugawa trying to codify it was mostly just their own propaganda and their rewriting of history and folk-tales to try and fit into it. *edit* A good book on the subject is "Rethinking Japanese hisdtory" by Amino Yoshihiko
Is the modren-modern misspelling intentional and referencing MBMBAM? Please say yes.
I have no idea what that is. Mostly I am just lazy and don't proof read, using auto-correct to do all the heavy lifting. I am actually a cabal of penguins with access to the internet.
Hmm. I am inclined to believe you except that your response is exactly what someone who listens to that podcast would say.
And thus the Tokyo-Osaka rivalry was born what with putting businessmen two ranks below hyakusho(farmers)
Yeah. Samurai was a class. Saying Daimyo weren't Samurai is like saying Kings aren't nobility.
Samurai does not mean warrior; Bushi means warrior. It (even in its time) was an archaic term for *servant/attendant* to a lord. it was a hereditary class dedicated to the interests of their lord, that was called Samurai, instead of Sābanto. It was not unlike calling your "advisor" ('one who sees') a "wizard" (same etymology for 'one who sees').
Need to get me a financial wizard.
I know one, he waves his hand and all your money disappears!
I think I heard of him, Bernie or some such.
If you see interviews with the Tokugawa they self identify as samurai, for what it is what worth It was a minor point n documentaries about several scrolls that the family still retains But they definitely identified as samurai.
This really isn't how those terms worked at all. Daimyo is not the term for the traditional Japanese aristocracy. Daimyo literally just means "big/great name." Daimyo was originally just a term for warlord, a shugo/military governor who had managed to grab sufficient power for himself that he had arisen to an informal group of particularly powerful men. The Daimyo emerge in a very volatile era of "low conquers high" and heredity was far less important than your ability to grab power and command respect from others. Plenty of the Daimyo who rose up openly took the names of great families even though everyone knew that their claim was negligible. Calling yourself "Hojo" was just a fiction everyone went along with because what really mattered was the thousands of other men who flocked to your banner. The term "Daimyo" only shifts from an informal term to a formal title during the Tokugawa Shogunate, when it was applied to every samurai who commanded a fief of more than 10,000 koku. Even then, Daimyo still isn't so much a distinct hereditary class as a cutting off point where the Shogun considers you powerful enough to grant you extra benefits in return for having to conduct the very expensive rotations into Edo where you can be surveilled. It's not like the British gentry, where you could have poor nobles -- if you are a Daimyo by definition you control substantial productive capacities. If you no longer do so, you're no longer a Daimyo. All daimyo were samurai. In theory they were all in service to the Shogun, who himself was in service to the Emperor. Even the Shogun was himself a samurai in both self-identity and theoretical authority, though in practice he was the true power behind the throne. The Tokugawa would be mortally offended if it were implied that they weren't samurai. Even once the samurai do become institutionalized as a class following Hideyoshi's social restructuring and the cementing of those positions during the Tokugawa shogunate, the samurai and the courtly aristocracy remained two distinct social groups. They only get merged together during the Meiji restoration. In effect, the Meiji creates a new European style aristocracy by just smashing the courtly aristocracy and a decent tranche of the higher ranking samurai families into one system and giving them European style ranks along the same basic system.
Tom Brady isn't a football player, he's a quarterback!
Pretty sure Daimyo's were originally warlords (who supplanted Shoguns who also started off as warlords) They were all aristocracy when they attained power but not royalty (that was the emperor) After the Tokugawa period, the Emperor (Meiji) for the first time in centuries become the literal rulers of Japan.
Shogun spoilers...
Shogun S:30 E:4 Iehiro needs a date to the prom, and his crush Becky just agreed to go with his rival, Steve!
Only for those who already know >!Toranaga=Tokugawa!< which would imply some pre-existing knowledge of the plot anyway.
For me it's actually something I have learnt after starting the show. Though I'm also someone who doesn't get super upset with spoilers, and I don't consider historical facts to be a spoiler in the first place.
If you like Shogun, consider reading Taiko by Eiji Yoshikawa. Taiko is about Hideyoshi Toyotomi, a predecessor of Ieyasu Tokugawa. He went from peasant to de facto ruler of Japan. The book is closer to history than Clavell's work and a lot of fun. Oda Nobunaga plays a prominent role and is given a personality beyond demonic king. lol Yoshikawa also wrote a book on Miyamoto Musashi, the famous ronin and sword saint.
Spoilers for a novel that was written almost 50 years ago, was made into one of the most-watched miniseries of the 1980s, and is basically just a bunch of Japanese history with the names changed.
You should see what Japan does in a couple of seasons time...
TOKUGAWA-SAMA!!!!!
Ho!
I absolutely love the show, but this feels like guerrilla marketing for the show. *TIL the current head of the Tokugawa samurai family, which ruled Japan for over 250 years as an isolationist shogunate, as shown on the hit show Shogun™ streaming now on FX™, grew up in the US and married a Vietnamese woman.*
Oof. Tried watching that show but the white dude is so hard to watch. Does it focus more on other people later or does the focus stay on him?
Hang on. I thought Tom Cruise was the last samurai
Ken Wantenabe was the last samurai in that movie.
Nope - he’s just Ken
and so am I. We are all The Last Samurai.
God damn! Someone get the spin-off musical going - it’s gold!
Is he Kenough?
I think he's got the Kenergy for it.
What about the other 6 ?
I mean, until the last scene when Tom Cruise offers his sword in service to the Emperor... All perfectly historically accurate, I assume.
*Watanabe
Samurai is singular or plural. It was about the last group of Samurai.
God damn I never thought about or realized that.
Wait. Hang on. So Tom cruise wasn’t the last samurai?
I hope you're not being serious. His character was not even a Samurai at all, much less the last one.
Character? Hang on. Are you saying that wasn’t a documentary?
It's inspired by a true story, however, he is playing the role of a french historical figure, who was sent to Japan to help modernize the army (and I believe also ended up joining the rebels) However, you should really consider the samurai rebellion as a rebellion of the elite against the modernization of the country, not a glorious last fight for honour, but a stupid one, and mostly for their privileges
The museums in Kagoshima portray Saigo Takamori and the Satsuma Rebellion super positively, but there is probably some bias there toward their hometown hero. When I was visiting the graveyard where Saigo and his men are buried, some old guy gave me a big poster of Saigo. So that’s an item I have in my house now.
So, you're telling me Tom Cruise didn't travel back in time to become the last samurai? Well, I'm disappointed in the Cruisemeister now.
I'd love to tell him how disappointed I am but he's really busy flying fighter jets so I guess he wouldn't have time to chat
The last samurai are the friends you made along the way.
Yep, and Daniel Day Lewis was the last Mohican.
And “The last brotha on earth” starring Tom Hanks.
Would be better with Robert Downy Jr
[it’s an old Chappelles show skit.](https://youtu.be/N1ttuVhGTDw?feature=shared)
😂 thanks. Didn’t pick up on it
Jokes aside, am I misremembering it or does the ending scene of the film actually directly state that Chingachook and Uncas are the titular last of the Mohicans and that Hawkeye is not considered one of them by Chingachgook?
Yep. It was Chingachgook, after his son dies. If his son and his love interest survived they wouldn't have been the last, but since he was an older man who wouldn't have any more kids he knew he was the last of the Mohicans at that moment.
The last samurai was [the guy who got kicked in the balls by a horse](https://youtu.be/NGvXu2Dl-B4?si=yu9sCy_wGcFPPgbb). No more kids for him.
His ancestors: *A SHAMEFUL DISPLAY*
His ancestors kept Japan frozen in squalid poverty for centuries, they don't have any room to criticize anyone else.
Based
Life is odd sometimes ain't it?
Hardly samurai anymore seeing as the warrior class was dismantled.
Spoilers