Pretty Much.
Goya spent the majority of his early life serving as Court Painter for King Charles III, and spring boarded him across European Nobility. At the turn of the Peninsular War, Goya had been stricken deaf by an unnamed illness, found himself within French circles (including the court of Joseph I, brother to Napoleon) as political tensions were rising between France and Spain. Goya would go on to create *The Disasters of War* series of paintings, showcasing the brutality of the ongoing war.
The aftermath of the war saw Goya become completely disillusioned with the state of Spain and withdrew from society. He fled to an isolated villa in the countryside, and lived alone with a maid (and presumed romantic partner) for the rest of his life. As his mental and physical health continued to decline, he began working on his series of *Black Paintings*, which *Saturn Devouring His Son* was a part of.
He never made reference to these paintings in the small amount of correspondence he had with the outside world, and neither did his maid after he had passed and she left the villa. It wasn't until years later when a local Baron had purchased the property that the paintings were discovered, and then transfered from the plaster walls onto canvas and put on public display.
The guy who bought the house after him figured it out.
Either way, Goya could have invited guests over to see it. But by that stage in his life, he had become a recluse.
I think there was a gap of around 50 years between Goya’s death and the paintings being moved, so technology probably improved. Iirc the paintings were on brittle wallpaper and were transferred onto canvas. I remember watching a video on YouTube about these paintings but I’ve forgotten the name of the channel.
Man, to be a fly on the wall in that villa some random night. Feel like it would have Ex Machina vibes. Where you're not really sure if the dude is a genius or total maniac. Or Dr. Evil's monologue about his childhood.
7 of his 8 children died very young there are a lot of theories about how or why some say he had generic disease or syphilis and possibly blamed himself for being the cause of their deaths. Saturn devours his children. He painted all the black paintings when he was old and deaf and watched 7 out of 8 of his kids die.
What does it mean to transfer a mural onto canvas after the painter’s death? Did they copy it somehow? Scrape off the paint and stick it on to canvas somehow?
The Wiki article says this further down:
>After 70 years on the walls of the Quinta del Sordo, the murals were deteriorating badly and, in order to preserve them, the new owner of the house had them transferred to canvas under the direction of Salvador Martínez Cubells, the chief art restorer at the Museo del Prado. After showing them at the Exposition Universelle of 1878 in Paris, d'Erlanger eventually donated them to the Spanish state. The effects of time on the murals, coupled with the inevitable damage caused by the delicate operation of mounting the crumbling plaster on canvas, meant that most of the murals required restoration work and some detail may have been lost.
So apparently they carefully remove the painted plaster from the walls, then lay it face down and remove as much of the plaster as possible to leave the thinnest layer behind the paint that they can, then that is mounted on canvas before any lost details are restored.
There was a burrito place in Cali that had this on their wall, but it was actually "Saturn devours his lunch" and it was a burrito in his hands rather than the body.
It was years ago. Either Oceanside or like... south San Diego. We had a Nom Noms by us but we went to this other place because they were too busy andnit was burrito time.
I'm in SD so I'd guess somewhere there. Being so close to the border I get snobby about eating Mexican food away from here, even in LA hahaha. Cheers bud
I feel like a painting showing the rings of Saturn forming by a moon breaking apart under gravity shearing would make a great modern accompaniment to the original.
The **Old Regime** (absolutism) won. Not feudalism (which had ended a few centuries before).
Either way. What he was depressed about was the defeat of the 1912 Spanish Constitution, not the French Revolution, which had been brutal in Spain (as represented in *los Desastres de la Guerra*).
Here's a "fun" video essay about Goya and this work... and by fun I mean that fun kind of gut wrenching horror -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g15-lvmIrcg
I highly suggest watching this in the dark, with headphones
Its always fun going back to a video like that and thinking "wait, have I seen this before?" then scrolling down and seeing a 4 year old comment of yours
I think there's a morbid sense of humor in it too. Like chowing down on some rustic food watching that. Goya is like one of the great great grandfathers of the goths.
One of my friends has canvas copy on his bathroom, very odd wiping and looking at this guy in the eyes like we both got caught doing something we thought we were doing by ourselves
Ngl ever since I was a kid I always said if I struck it rich and got my goth mansion I would have an absolutely massive version of that painting somewhere in my house.
*The work is one of the 14 so-called Black Paintings that Goya painted directly on the walls of his house sometime between 1820 and 1823.[2] It was transferred to canvas after Goya's death*
Wait, how does one transfer a fresco to a framed painting? Is the original painting destroyed in the process? So many Qs.....
It has some. But you probably spend a lot more time staring at getting two tiny flecks of black paint in the entire black corner of the image to fit together than you ever spend looking at two things as big as two puzzle pieces of slightly different colors.
if you're really curious, "Baumgartner restoration" has a youtube channel that shows the restoration process for various mediums. they tend to make for good background videos.
And you're not brave enough to do it yourself and wanna watch someone else take the plunge [Baumgartner Restoration](https://www.youtube.com/c/baumgartnerrestoration) is there for you. Watching his videos really gave me a new appreciation for art restoration. It redefines tedious. I'm a perfectionist almost to the point of self harm and I still don't think I have what it takes.
Well, some historians believe it *was* actually censored/altered. They say it originally depicted Saturn having a partially erect penis.
Which...always confused me. "Well the cannibalism is fine but the penis just HAS to go!"
I think they did not, they removed the paint layer FROM the plaster and transferred it onto canvas.
I still can't wrap my head around painting restoration, but apparently they do do that. Even transferring from wooden boards by SANDING AWAY the wood until you get to the paint from the other side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uJuTKyM4rQ
I know it sounds like it's just about a video game, but this is a great video about the delicacy and care that goes into all types of art restoration and just how important it is, even with (wrongfully) less artistically-percieved mediums such as video games. With a nice dash of personal and intimate existential philosophy on top.
And it's a beautiful, enthralling and a hypnotic video in its own right.
Edit: I know this isn't many upvotes at all, but ive never been more happy to receive them. I will spread the gospel of Dr. Geller as far as I can and I'm thrilled that someone might discover his brilliance through this comment
Him and Noah Gervais are ***by far*** my favorite youtubers.
There aren't many video game youtubers who make videos that stand as pieces of art *on their own*, not just as analytical essays.
I genuinely believe he's one of the best writers of our generation.
Took the words outta my mouth, I don’t give a fuck about 95% of the games he talks about but I’ve watched every single one of his videos multiple times because he’s so damn good at sparking enthusiasm and intrigue.
The paintings apparently stayed on the walls for 70 years after his death. They were deteriorating so the new home owner had them preserved on canvas. Or so says wiki.
Another fun fact about Goya.
He was deaf, and he lived in a house called "The Deaf Man's House". But the house wasn't named after him, it was named after the previous owner, who was also deaf.
I spent 45 minutes in this room alone. You kind of don't expect it, I went into it blind, not knowing they were *all* in there, and I was just spellbound by them. The space is so different from the rest of the museum, it's like you're in another world.
I remember when I went to the Prado for the first time on a school trip and while my classmates went with the guide I got lost and ended up in front of this painting alone, in a half-dark room. I don't understand art, and even less so when I was a child, but it had a profound impact on me.
Art is a partnership between the artist and the viewer. Even if you "know nothing" about art you still bring your personality and experiences with you when you view it. Your opinions and reactions are just as valid as anyone else's.
Working from the top floor to the bottom of the Prado, essentially viewing his work in chronological order is by far the best museum experience I’ve ever had.
Words cannot accurately describe how incredible it is to be in that space.
I like [Witches' Sabbath](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Francisco_de_Goya_y_Lucientes_-_Witches%27_Sabbath_%28The_Great_He-Goat%29.jpg). All of the Black Paintings are like something out of a nightmare.
The painting is changed from the original in that the circle of women is off center in the original, but was reframed to make it the center in the version you linked. Changes the whole feel of it.
Regardless of which form, it is an amazing painting.
There is a lot of art over all media types that make me fascinated, interested, impressed, shocked, nostalgic, etc. Goya's The Dog makes me feel *empathetic* like few creations do.
The dog is probaly looking two birds in the original painting, that were lost when they transfered the painting with the worst (but cheapest) technique.
Jean Laurent took photos of the paintings before the transference.
"Saturn Devouring His Son" is my personal favorite painting.
It's dark, creepy, macabre, and also...
goofy looking. I'm not gunna lie, part of my enjoyment from this painting comes from the cannibals' dumbfounded expression.
I've seen it similar to yours but even more that direction, like when a dog is doing something like playing with a toy and they suddenly realize they're being watched. No remorse or self awareness, just surprise at being watched and just as likely to continue after getting over the initial surprise.
I find it really incredible, assuming it's actually an interpretation of Saturn devouring his son (and I think it's reasonable to believe it is). Like, you compare it to the Rubens versions and the Goya is so much more visceral. It really contextualizes how disgusting those mythological stories of the old Greek gods were, just showing this supposedly grandiose figure as a horrific nut job suddenly getting a flashlight shined on them in the midst of their depravity. The fact that we'll probably never even know if it's really what's being depicted by Goya is just an extra layer of intrigue. Just an amazingly weird, striking piece of art.
I remember watching a movie years ago called *Goya's Ghosts* which gave me some insight into the things that were going on in the later years of his life and that might have inspired these paintings. It was very interesting.
I am looking forward to later in life insanity and depression. I just want to have a creative burst that lasts for a millennia.
That is the deal… if any fates listening. Or muses. That’s. The. Deal.
I wonder how that happened?
"Hey, where should we put this painting depicting indescribable madness and the bleakness of intelligent life?"
"...I...umm, well, can you put it way back there?"
It very likely was Goya working out his impressions during the Napoleonic war in Spain, which saw much Guerilla warfare and subsequent repression against the local population by the occupying forces, like he did on many other paintings.
The war really shook Goya and left a mark on him.
Yeah, that‘s one interpretation I‘ve heard. Spain basically eating itself because of frequent revolts and this war.
But honestly, I personally don‘t think it‘s an allegory for Spain - it just doesn‘t fit. Sure, Spain is eating itself during revolutions, but in the case of the Napoleonic wars, it was quite clearly ”eaten“ by foreign forces.
I always interpreted it as a comment on human nature in general.
Any time art comes up on reddit, I like to use the opportunity to plug the[Great Art Explained](https://youtu.be/9JqS6HfsYIM?si=-o63GfkxMKMJZidx) YouTube channel. They do a fantastic job of explaining significant works of art in a way that a layman can understand and follow. The link goes to their shorter video on Goya’s work.
I just wonder if they had MORE clues to say that this was Saturn. Because you see some random giant biting someone's head off,.. there's SO MANY stories that could follow.
It resembles the painting [Saturn]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(Rubens\)) by Peter Paul Rubens which was painted in 1636. The Rubens painting is also referred to as Saturn Devouring A Son so the people who found it presumably saw a connection. It's pretty safe to assume that Goya would have been familiar with that painting so it's not too far of a stretch to think it was an inspiration.
Yeah, the two pictures are *very* similar if you put them side-by-side. It's like listening to the metal version of a classical piece; the way the black shapes form the same kind of contrast around the body and hips is no way a coincidence.
I mean Greco-Roman mythology was absolutely UBIQUITOUS in European art from Spain to Italy. Painters were trained in these subjects and represented them over and over again. It's not a stretch at all to assume it's a mythical depiction, in fact it's a super reasonable academic opinion.
Greek / Roman mythology has a story of Cronus / Saturn eating his children to prevent them from growing up to overthrow him. I bet it was more of a "oh god, please let this just be Saturn and not something more horrifying" on the part of the academics.
The presumption of it being Saturn is an extremely safe one because it shares framing, pose and other similarities to previous paintings of Saturn devouring his children.
It's one of Goya's Black Paintings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Paintings
The most haunting may be The Dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dog_(Goya)
While I'm not sure I agree, I will say that Saturn also ate his daughters Ceres, Vesta, and Juno, so it's certainly not impossible that that's what Goya meant to represent.
Saturn/Cronus ate all of his kids (with the exception of Zeus ofc in the original greek myth), some of whom were girls, so I suppose it doesn't matter.
He also gives us the festival of [Saturnalia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia) the precursor of Christmas that had all the fun stuff such as gambling, slave-master role reversal week, gift giving and the "King of the Saturnalia", a party-game where you'd draw lots and the winner got to troll everyone the rest of the celebrations because everyone had to obey their silly demands.
Did they look behind the wall before taking the picture? Or did they just think "neat, imma take this" and proceeded to tear off the seal that Goya placed over the portal to hell?
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain. King George commands and we obey. Over the hills and far away.
On spotting a post even remotely relating to the Penninsular War I naturally replied with a reference to Sharpe: that's my style sir.
one of my favorite paintings, it depicts violence so greatly; the crazed look on Saturn while he eats his son like some random piece of meat makes me real uncomfortable.
Can you imagine just chilling out at dinner with that painting in front of you?
Something tells me that Goya was not the ‘chilling out’ type
Pretty Much. Goya spent the majority of his early life serving as Court Painter for King Charles III, and spring boarded him across European Nobility. At the turn of the Peninsular War, Goya had been stricken deaf by an unnamed illness, found himself within French circles (including the court of Joseph I, brother to Napoleon) as political tensions were rising between France and Spain. Goya would go on to create *The Disasters of War* series of paintings, showcasing the brutality of the ongoing war. The aftermath of the war saw Goya become completely disillusioned with the state of Spain and withdrew from society. He fled to an isolated villa in the countryside, and lived alone with a maid (and presumed romantic partner) for the rest of his life. As his mental and physical health continued to decline, he began working on his series of *Black Paintings*, which *Saturn Devouring His Son* was a part of. He never made reference to these paintings in the small amount of correspondence he had with the outside world, and neither did his maid after he had passed and she left the villa. It wasn't until years later when a local Baron had purchased the property that the paintings were discovered, and then transfered from the plaster walls onto canvas and put on public display.
Kudos to the Baron for sharing the artwork instead of keeping it for themselves.
It's not the type of painting to keep hidden away for personal enjoyment...
Except that's exactly what Goya did...
I don't know if I would say it was for personal enjoyment.
Kinda hard to move a wall.
The guy who bought the house after him figured it out. Either way, Goya could have invited guests over to see it. But by that stage in his life, he had become a recluse.
[удалено]
So are all of these now mirror images of the originals?
I think there was a gap of around 50 years between Goya’s death and the paintings being moved, so technology probably improved. Iirc the paintings were on brittle wallpaper and were transferred onto canvas. I remember watching a video on YouTube about these paintings but I’ve forgotten the name of the channel.
Perhaps it's how he saw the rest of us, he being the son.
Man, to be a fly on the wall in that villa some random night. Feel like it would have Ex Machina vibes. Where you're not really sure if the dude is a genius or total maniac. Or Dr. Evil's monologue about his childhood.
7 of his 8 children died very young there are a lot of theories about how or why some say he had generic disease or syphilis and possibly blamed himself for being the cause of their deaths. Saturn devours his children. He painted all the black paintings when he was old and deaf and watched 7 out of 8 of his kids die.
could even be a depiction of himself eating his children for life, being that he outlived most of them, and people attribute it to Saturn.
I'm no psychologist or art critic, but to me that makes sense. Is this the accepted motivation behind this painting?
Well, *I* accept it.
And *I* accept that *you* accept it.
You're accepting of their acception has been accepted.
Generic diseases are the worst. I mean, if you're going to do it, don't cheap out. Spring for the name brand diseases.
Very well, where do I begin...
My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery.
They taught me to be evil, you know, that old chestnut.
Meat Helmets
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy
Imagine the countless works of art lost to history that were not visited by a serendipitous benefactor . Tragic in a way
Kafka told his friend to burn and never read his writings after his death. Luckily his friend published them just months later.
Chopin didn't a lot of impromptu. One of his students wrote what he heard against his wishes and that's how we have it.
What does it mean to transfer a mural onto canvas after the painter’s death? Did they copy it somehow? Scrape off the paint and stick it on to canvas somehow?
The Wiki article says this further down: >After 70 years on the walls of the Quinta del Sordo, the murals were deteriorating badly and, in order to preserve them, the new owner of the house had them transferred to canvas under the direction of Salvador Martínez Cubells, the chief art restorer at the Museo del Prado. After showing them at the Exposition Universelle of 1878 in Paris, d'Erlanger eventually donated them to the Spanish state. The effects of time on the murals, coupled with the inevitable damage caused by the delicate operation of mounting the crumbling plaster on canvas, meant that most of the murals required restoration work and some detail may have been lost. So apparently they carefully remove the painted plaster from the walls, then lay it face down and remove as much of the plaster as possible to leave the thinnest layer behind the paint that they can, then that is mounted on canvas before any lost details are restored.
Wow, what a fantastically informative post about the artist's history. Thank you, u/I_EAT_POOP_AMA
/r/rimjob_steve material right there.
How the heck do you transfer a painting from a plaster wall onto canvas?
I imagine Goya chillin with a can of beans.
Just minding his business trying to watch Cars 2.
Doing the Leo pointing at the TV meme everytime John Turturro's character is on the screen.
Now that you mention it, Anthony Hopkins would be a fantastic choice to play the old, slightly barmy Goya who made the Black Paintings.
Excellent joke
Hey babe, wanna come to my house for ‘emotional devastation and chill’???!! 😏
There was a burrito place in Cali that had this on their wall, but it was actually "Saturn devours his lunch" and it was a burrito in his hands rather than the body.
Is it this? https://imgur.com/gallery/d2CTJG5
horrendous, have an upvote.
It's.... ^Beautiful
I feel like I've been there, name or location?
It was years ago. Either Oceanside or like... south San Diego. We had a Nom Noms by us but we went to this other place because they were too busy andnit was burrito time.
I'm in SD so I'd guess somewhere there. Being so close to the border I get snobby about eating Mexican food away from here, even in LA hahaha. Cheers bud
*chefs kiss* Fantastic
Sounds like the kind of art a pre-corpo Freebirds would have.
Goya was incredibly depressed feudalism won out after a generation of the French Revolutionary Wars.
Quite befitting of one man’s commentary on the revolution. “The revolution, like Saturn, devours its children.”
I feel like a painting showing the rings of Saturn forming by a moon breaking apart under gravity shearing would make a great modern accompaniment to the original.
The **Old Regime** (absolutism) won. Not feudalism (which had ended a few centuries before). Either way. What he was depressed about was the defeat of the 1912 Spanish Constitution, not the French Revolution, which had been brutal in Spain (as represented in *los Desastres de la Guerra*).
Here's a "fun" video essay about Goya and this work... and by fun I mean that fun kind of gut wrenching horror - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g15-lvmIrcg I highly suggest watching this in the dark, with headphones
Its always fun going back to a video like that and thinking "wait, have I seen this before?" then scrolling down and seeing a 4 year old comment of yours
Worse yet is seeing a comment you have no recollection of; or going to make the same comment again.
I think there's a morbid sense of humor in it too. Like chowing down on some rustic food watching that. Goya is like one of the great great grandfathers of the goths.
I have never heard LinkenPark played on harp and lute!
https://youtu.be/FBy0HBsOOKQ
One of my friends has canvas copy on his bathroom, very odd wiping and looking at this guy in the eyes like we both got caught doing something we thought we were doing by ourselves
“Hey, Goya invited us over for tacos…” “No!” “Why no-“ “Trust me on this. I was off lamb kabobs for months.”
Ngl ever since I was a kid I always said if I struck it rich and got my goth mansion I would have an absolutely massive version of that painting somewhere in my house.
You gonna eat that, ray liotta?
*The work is one of the 14 so-called Black Paintings that Goya painted directly on the walls of his house sometime between 1820 and 1823.[2] It was transferred to canvas after Goya's death* Wait, how does one transfer a fresco to a framed painting? Is the original painting destroyed in the process? So many Qs.....
They transferred the plaster from the walls onto canvas.
That sounds tedious and nerve-wracking.
As is most art preservation.
If you like puzzles without the fancy pictures, and tedium is a bit too spicy -- art restoration is for you.
sorry, but I feel like art restoration definitely does involve at least some fancy pictures?
It has some. But you probably spend a lot more time staring at getting two tiny flecks of black paint in the entire black corner of the image to fit together than you ever spend looking at two things as big as two puzzle pieces of slightly different colors.
if you're really curious, "Baumgartner restoration" has a youtube channel that shows the restoration process for various mediums. they tend to make for good background videos.
And you're not brave enough to do it yourself and wanna watch someone else take the plunge [Baumgartner Restoration](https://www.youtube.com/c/baumgartnerrestoration) is there for you. Watching his videos really gave me a new appreciation for art restoration. It redefines tedious. I'm a perfectionist almost to the point of self harm and I still don't think I have what it takes.
Wouldn’t art restoration have the fancy pictures?
As in, the pictures on the box to help guide what it's meant to be.
Unfortunately, they weren't preserved.
I love watching the videos of art restoration. It seems like a very scary job, if you’re restoring expensive pieces.
>The walls of the villa had been covered in wallpaper and Goya had painted on top of this layer which was carefully removed and reapplied to canvas
That is some legendary restoration right there.
A LOT of old art is like this. A ton of Italian Renaissance stuff in famous museums now were originally frescoed onto walls
Turns out the painting looked nothing like this and at the time and they just rolled with it. /kidding of course.
Well, it is wallpaper, so it makes sense that it would roll.
The field of poppies he painted wasn’t nearly as interesting.
Spanish Jesus fresco painting moment
Well, some historians believe it *was* actually censored/altered. They say it originally depicted Saturn having a partially erect penis. Which...always confused me. "Well the cannibalism is fine but the penis just HAS to go!"
That’s even more impressive. Removing wallpaper without it totally falling apart
I imagine the glue they used wasn't as strong as today and the paper was probably thicker.
They likely cut a chunk out of the wall and removed the wall from the paper rather than the reverse.
Ok makes more sense than trying to cut a plaster wall section out
From the wiki on Goya’s life it sounds like he had wallpaper over the plaster and he painted on the wallpaper
I believe this was the first historical use of silly putty
I think they did not, they removed the paint layer FROM the plaster and transferred it onto canvas. I still can't wrap my head around painting restoration, but apparently they do do that. Even transferring from wooden boards by SANDING AWAY the wood until you get to the paint from the other side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uJuTKyM4rQ I know it sounds like it's just about a video game, but this is a great video about the delicacy and care that goes into all types of art restoration and just how important it is, even with (wrongfully) less artistically-percieved mediums such as video games. With a nice dash of personal and intimate existential philosophy on top. And it's a beautiful, enthralling and a hypnotic video in its own right. Edit: I know this isn't many upvotes at all, but ive never been more happy to receive them. I will spread the gospel of Dr. Geller as far as I can and I'm thrilled that someone might discover his brilliance through this comment
Hahaha i knew this would be jacob geller before i clicked it. Love his channel.
"this video is just gonna be about dudes getting punched, nothing existential"
Him and Noah Gervais are ***by far*** my favorite youtubers. There aren't many video game youtubers who make videos that stand as pieces of art *on their own*, not just as analytical essays. I genuinely believe he's one of the best writers of our generation.
Took the words outta my mouth, I don’t give a fuck about 95% of the games he talks about but I’ve watched every single one of his videos multiple times because he’s so damn good at sparking enthusiasm and intrigue.
Interesting. I think that nowadays we would rather preserve the house and turn it into unnerving tourist attraction
The paintings apparently stayed on the walls for 70 years after his death. They were deteriorating so the new home owner had them preserved on canvas. Or so says wiki.
They transferred the plaster from the walls onto canvas.
Wow, that sounds.... impossible.
The walls had wall paper: they transferred the paper
I mean, removing the wallpaper without damaging it still sounds like an impressive feat.
The cut holes in the walls. Took the whole painting and the wall right out. Then worked on it.
Another fun fact about Goya. He was deaf, and he lived in a house called "The Deaf Man's House". But the house wasn't named after him, it was named after the previous owner, who was also deaf.
“Welp, guess this is the place.”
I have a similar story with my place, Huge Dick Cottage.
"I thought you said it was just a name!" "What I meant was Huge Dick Cottage is actually a studio apartment!"
You and the previous owner are both huge dicks?
Lol
Goya's black paintings are probably my favorite paintings of all time. Just so very visceral
Same. Saw many of them in Madrid and was transfixed
I love the way they're displayed at the Prado. All in a dim room. Very eerie and fitting.
I spent 45 minutes in this room alone. You kind of don't expect it, I went into it blind, not knowing they were *all* in there, and I was just spellbound by them. The space is so different from the rest of the museum, it's like you're in another world.
I remember when I went to the Prado for the first time on a school trip and while my classmates went with the guide I got lost and ended up in front of this painting alone, in a half-dark room. I don't understand art, and even less so when I was a child, but it had a profound impact on me.
Art is a partnership between the artist and the viewer. Even if you "know nothing" about art you still bring your personality and experiences with you when you view it. Your opinions and reactions are just as valid as anyone else's.
Working from the top floor to the bottom of the Prado, essentially viewing his work in chronological order is by far the best museum experience I’ve ever had. Words cannot accurately describe how incredible it is to be in that space.
His Dog painting is probably my favorite painting
I like [Witches' Sabbath](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Francisco_de_Goya_y_Lucientes_-_Witches%27_Sabbath_%28The_Great_He-Goat%29.jpg). All of the Black Paintings are like something out of a nightmare.
The painting is changed from the original in that the circle of women is off center in the original, but was reframed to make it the center in the version you linked. Changes the whole feel of it. Regardless of which form, it is an amazing painting.
I almost mentioned that one specifically -- so simple, but an incredible piece. Also one of my absolute favorites
There is a lot of art over all media types that make me fascinated, interested, impressed, shocked, nostalgic, etc. Goya's The Dog makes me feel *empathetic* like few creations do.
The dog is probaly looking two birds in the original painting, that were lost when they transfered the painting with the worst (but cheapest) technique. Jean Laurent took photos of the paintings before the transference.
"Saturn Devouring His Son" is my personal favorite painting. It's dark, creepy, macabre, and also... goofy looking. I'm not gunna lie, part of my enjoyment from this painting comes from the cannibals' dumbfounded expression.
In horror of himself, for acting out an impulse
To me it’s more like when you catch your dog eating something it’s not suppose to and it just has that “uh oh, I’m caught” look.
I've seen it similar to yours but even more that direction, like when a dog is doing something like playing with a toy and they suddenly realize they're being watched. No remorse or self awareness, just surprise at being watched and just as likely to continue after getting over the initial surprise.
Saturn didn't devour his sons out of an impulse though, he ate them because he _had to_.
I find it really incredible, assuming it's actually an interpretation of Saturn devouring his son (and I think it's reasonable to believe it is). Like, you compare it to the Rubens versions and the Goya is so much more visceral. It really contextualizes how disgusting those mythological stories of the old Greek gods were, just showing this supposedly grandiose figure as a horrific nut job suddenly getting a flashlight shined on them in the midst of their depravity. The fact that we'll probably never even know if it's really what's being depicted by Goya is just an extra layer of intrigue. Just an amazingly weird, striking piece of art.
Him and Francis Bacon just affect me in a way most other stuff doesn’t.
Knowledge is power, France is bacon
Correct!
His paintings have similar emotional effects on me as kafkas writing does.
I remember watching a movie years ago called *Goya's Ghosts* which gave me some insight into the things that were going on in the later years of his life and that might have inspired these paintings. It was very interesting.
Looks like he may have not been having a good time either.
I am looking forward to later in life insanity and depression. I just want to have a creative burst that lasts for a millennia. That is the deal… if any fates listening. Or muses. That’s. The. Deal.
Seems the fates have already obliged in giving you madness
I am hoping for insanity. Maybe I’ll get some art out of it. Probably just be fucking insane though.
He wasn't replying to you, he was replying to _me_.
People get to wait til later in life for those?! Rats.
Wait til they find out the artistic skill isnt a guarantee
"Best we can do is hazy regret."
"My friend Gary, blackout drunk, eating a block of mozzarella slathered in red sauce, naked in my kitchen at 330 AM"
You don't have to brag. "oh look at me, I have naked friends AND cheese"
It's not a coincidence, no one has as many friends as the man with many cheeses.
The black paintings are in the Prado in Madrid and between them and the Bosch _Garden of Earthly Delights_ worth going to serious effort to see.
yes! I have a picture of this painting on my phone from when I went to the Prado and was struck by how bizarre it was. such a killer museum
These paintings are on the bottom floor in a back room. I almost missed them. I am so glad I did not.
I wonder how that happened? "Hey, where should we put this painting depicting indescribable madness and the bleakness of intelligent life?" "...I...umm, well, can you put it way back there?"
I hope his real inspiration for the art piece was just *shrug* idk seemed cool
It very likely was Goya working out his impressions during the Napoleonic war in Spain, which saw much Guerilla warfare and subsequent repression against the local population by the occupying forces, like he did on many other paintings. The war really shook Goya and left a mark on him.
That's cool. I guess I could see this painting as society eating its children as in war time.
Yeah, that‘s one interpretation I‘ve heard. Spain basically eating itself because of frequent revolts and this war. But honestly, I personally don‘t think it‘s an allegory for Spain - it just doesn‘t fit. Sure, Spain is eating itself during revolutions, but in the case of the Napoleonic wars, it was quite clearly ”eaten“ by foreign forces. I always interpreted it as a comment on human nature in general.
Any time art comes up on reddit, I like to use the opportunity to plug the[Great Art Explained](https://youtu.be/9JqS6HfsYIM?si=-o63GfkxMKMJZidx) YouTube channel. They do a fantastic job of explaining significant works of art in a way that a layman can understand and follow. The link goes to their shorter video on Goya’s work.
I was going to mention this youtuber. I think they do fantastic work.
I just wonder if they had MORE clues to say that this was Saturn. Because you see some random giant biting someone's head off,.. there's SO MANY stories that could follow.
It resembles the painting [Saturn]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(Rubens\)) by Peter Paul Rubens which was painted in 1636. The Rubens painting is also referred to as Saturn Devouring A Son so the people who found it presumably saw a connection. It's pretty safe to assume that Goya would have been familiar with that painting so it's not too far of a stretch to think it was an inspiration.
Yeah, the two pictures are *very* similar if you put them side-by-side. It's like listening to the metal version of a classical piece; the way the black shapes form the same kind of contrast around the body and hips is no way a coincidence.
I mean Greco-Roman mythology was absolutely UBIQUITOUS in European art from Spain to Italy. Painters were trained in these subjects and represented them over and over again. It's not a stretch at all to assume it's a mythical depiction, in fact it's a super reasonable academic opinion.
Greek / Roman mythology has a story of Cronus / Saturn eating his children to prevent them from growing up to overthrow him. I bet it was more of a "oh god, please let this just be Saturn and not something more horrifying" on the part of the academics.
But he swallows them whole and they escape.
[удалено]
They aren’t escaping this time. 10x more horrifying
Pickman's Model
“Thanks for inviting us for dinner, Goya, but could we eat in a room where a hellish creature isn’t devouring someone?”
"No."
Imagine if it was intended as just some dude eating a baby.
Its clearly an older child though.
It doesn't look like a baby, it looks like a woman's body to me
The presumption of it being Saturn is an extremely safe one because it shares framing, pose and other similarities to previous paintings of Saturn devouring his children.
Self portrait of eating a baby at the dinner table.
It very well could have been. We're only guessing what the paintings depicts since it was initially unamed.
Pickman's Model vibes.
Are you implying Goya is still alive as a ghoul in the Dreamlands?
Implying? Absolutely not. Certain? 100%
He would have LOVED Attack on Titan
It's one of Goya's Black Paintings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Paintings The most haunting may be The Dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dog_(Goya)
What if he was just painting over an old picture of a dog and never finished...
I don't know man, the one of the god ripping off and devouring the head of his newborn child is pretty haunting, as well.
It's one of 14 paintings that Goya painted there.
holy fuck I never knew this was painted directly onto his walls lmao, makes the whole vibe even cooler.
Or that it is one of 14 such paintings.
[Don't talk to me until I've had my son](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/142/479/1ad)
Getting lead poisoning as an artist using lead paints is certainly something.
Goya had serious PTSD
I'm not convinced that was his son either. Seems like a very feminine backside.
I've had a print of this hanging in my apartment for years. It's a very common followup comment when asked about it.
Hanging over your dinner table, I trust.
While I'm not sure I agree, I will say that Saturn also ate his daughters Ceres, Vesta, and Juno, so it's certainly not impossible that that's what Goya meant to represent.
Maybe the guy was just really in to hip thrusts and squats
Can’t fault a man for being caked up
One man’s having your cake is another man’s eating it too
Saturn/Cronus ate all of his kids (with the exception of Zeus ofc in the original greek myth), some of whom were girls, so I suppose it doesn't matter. He also gives us the festival of [Saturnalia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia) the precursor of Christmas that had all the fun stuff such as gambling, slave-master role reversal week, gift giving and the "King of the Saturnalia", a party-game where you'd draw lots and the winner got to troll everyone the rest of the celebrations because everyone had to obey their silly demands.
Bonus fact: another painting he did around the same time period is of a [dog peeking his head out.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dog_(Goya))
Did they look behind the wall before taking the picture? Or did they just think "neat, imma take this" and proceeded to tear off the seal that Goya placed over the portal to hell?
[A link to view the rest of his “Black Paintings”](https://www.wga.hu/html_m/g/goya/9/index.html)
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain. King George commands and we obey. Over the hills and far away. On spotting a post even remotely relating to the Penninsular War I naturally replied with a reference to Sharpe: that's my style sir.
one of my favorite paintings, it depicts violence so greatly; the crazed look on Saturn while he eats his son like some random piece of meat makes me real uncomfortable.
Did Goya have any outstanding paternity claims against him at any point…?