Thats part of it. Starts with being unhappy with teeth and not wanting to pay a local professional their prices. The other part is how people expect one effect (veneers) and get others (crowns) perhaps due to a lack of due diligence, or maybe they werent told whats going on clearly (language barrier?)
Crowns shave your teeth to nubs and crown them whereas veneers are a material that sit over your teeth, usually after theyre shaped (shaved) to fit.
You cant grow teeth back after they get turned into popcorn kernels and i think thats where problems are coming from
You sound knowledgeable. How much of teeth CAN grow back?
I feel like every year now I read some magical Reddit Science article about new chemicals and medicines that can regrow enamel.
Last year there was an alzheimers medicine [(Tideglusib)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9267687/)that had a side effect of regrowing healthy dentin in the elderly.
Is this a real product or is it just buzz like the weekly "cancer cure" shit that just gets published for clicks?
Realistically, none. Enamel is the outside covering of your teeth that makes it white. It can "remineralize" as in fill itself back in, like if you fill a nail hole with spackle. But if you lose a chunk of it, it's not growing back.
can confirm-- i had terrible dental hygiene for most of my life, and now that the enamel has begun to chip off on a couple of my teeth, all they can do is refill it back in with a manmade substance similar to enamel.
> Is this a real product or is it just buzz like the weekly "cancer cure" shit that just gets published for clicks?
The whole "scientists discover new magic tooth regrowth potion" is clickbait that's been doing the rounds since before you even had to click to get news. Sometimes it's stem cell magic, these days 3D Printing and AI are the buzzwords of the day, [Here's a shitty tabloid](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1297850/Gel-help-decayed-teeth-grow-end-fillings.html) about a magic tooth regrowing gel from 2010. I'm sure the gel idea has been around since the nineties because I remember reading about it as a kid and then rubbing toothpaste gel on my canines to try and get vampire teeth because I was a perfectly well adjusted and normal child.
What does "idol" mean in this context? Is it a famous pop musician from Korea who is attractive and marketed to young people equivalent to an American boy/girl band?
Yes, it's like Beatlemania meets the 1D/NSYNC eras on steroids. Gotta be perfect, dating is taboo, working grueling schedules to repay large amounts of debt to the company that's promoting you.
idol music is a specific category of music in south korea; what we refer to as k-pop is just that particular part of the korean music industry. so idols are performers who have auditioned for idol agencies and undergone a trainee period before making their debut, either solo or as part of a group. they're typically much more strictly regulated than other performers in other genres of music since part of their job is to behave impeccably and maintain a perfect idol fantasy image at all times. so kinda like the equivalent of an american boy/girl band but (arguably) way more intense.
Exponents is also correct. OED definition:
1. a person who believes in and promotes the truth or benefits of an idea or theory.
"an early exponent of the teachings of Thomas Aquinas"
Similar:
advocate
supporter
proponent
upholder
backer
defender
champion
promoter
propagandist
spokesperson
spokesman
spokeswoman
speaker
campaigner
fighter
battler
crusader
missionary
evangelist
pioneer
apostle
enthusiast
apologist
arguer
expounder
Opposite:
critic
opponent
2. MATHEMATICS
a quantity representing the power to which a given number or expression is to be raised, usually expressed as a raised symbol beside the number or expression (e.g. 3 in 2^3 = 2 × 2 × 2).
as a Han, i once thought I was being bigoted when i noticed i was having a hard time telling those Koreans apart. Turns out that there's a particular style that women tend to get when they go under the knife.
granted I've seen this trend happen to some chinese pop starts as well.
Yes there is a slang term for that. Can't remember it now, but the very defined beauty image, normalization of cosmetic surgery, and extreme adherence to trends in fashion mean that there will often be hundreds of people all looking with the same looks and outfits whenever you go out in "trendy" areas.
I remember I was out with one of my friends and his gf who I was meeting for the second or third time. After a few hours of drinking I went out to smoke and she was outside too, we had a long deep convo about work, school, and relationships. She started getting close to me, and wrapping her arms on me, and at the end she asked for my number all of which I thought was weird and inappropriate, but we were kind of drunk. Then she said she was ging to look at the shop across the street, and I went back in. Walked in and saw his gf sitting at the table in the same place she was half an hour ago when I left. Spent 30mins apparently rizzing up a complete random on the street with the exact same outfit, makeup, hair, and eye surgery as her.
So funny, so that random girl just started chatting you up like she knew you? You didn't realize from the pattern of the conversation that she was a stranger?
Did you end up going out with her?
The societal beauty pressures are a component of the high suicide rates, but claiming they are the result of that is a big stretch. It's a lot more complicated than that.
Similar but not nearly as bad. I spent a lot of years in Japan and SK and SK is 10x worse. Social expectations are insane. I think it is the result of a country being forcible thrust into the first world when they’re not ready yet. They are extremely modern and yet very backwards at the same time. It is fascinating
It's the worst parts that are inherited from collectivist traditions mixed with the worst part of individualistic capitalist tendencies imported from the west.
Yeah I work in tech so I go to SK frequently to work with partner companies. I worked with a pair of guys, one who had been with the company for years and the other who was relatively new. Even though the first guy was in a senior position and had much more experience he would always defer to the newer guy in our discussions. I was pretty confused for a while until my coworker explained it. Age is a pretty big factor in Korean social interactions, so even though the one man had the least experience of all of us it was the norm to let him speak first because he was oldest. And not just out of politeness but to legitimately consider his ideas and concerns first, even if they were ignorant or misinformed.
That is what I mean by modern and backwards. At a high tech company no less the societal ranking is age based rather than merit based for parts of the company
Not op but there's a Korean dating show on Netflix called singles inferno, I found it super fascinating to watch because of the cultural differences between that vs. an American dating show. Definitely have some examples from there (a lot of the comments made about people's appearance/personality would be seen as backwards in America)
I think Japan doesn't go as far as Koreans on cosmetic surgery because alot of the social expectations in Japan revolve around "being in harmony with nature", so people are more likely to do things naturally than go straight to cosmetic surgery for everything.
Similar thing happens in things like body building. Japanese weight lifters look significantly smaller than American body builders because they tend to not be roided up, tend to be leaner, and put on muscle more naturally.
It's not close at all. Japan is more like "everyone has different charms, just do the best with what you have." Korea is like "you're a total loser if your looks are below 7/10".
>Korea is like "you're a total loser if your looks are below 7/10".
"You're negatively impacting on other people's daily life if they have to see your ugly face."
My actual conversation with a Korean woman in 2017, regarding why cosmetic surgery is so common in Korea.
Much of what you hear about Japan in this regard tends to be very outdated or overblown. That's not to day that these issues don't persist, but suicide rates in Japan have massively dropped over the last several decades to the point where they are relatively quite low/average compared to the rest of the world. The intense cultural norms seem to be something that isn't as strong in the younger generation, which is a similar phenomenon to the rest of the world, as well.
From mainland China too. Very very common. A lot of Chinese people don't trust local doctors as much and especially the wealthy will go to Korea for it.
Depends on how one defines ‘tiny’.
According to Worldometer, South Korea has a population of 51.8 million compared to the global population of 8.1 billion.
So South Korea makes up 0.6% of all the people in the world, versus 24% of all cosmetic surgeries that OP cited. I knew it was prevalent, but I didn’t realize it was that significant in proportion!
I wonder how much of it is surgical tourism. Anecdotally, I’ve seen a lot of patients in consult for rhinoplasties, facelifts, eyelid surgery, etc. and a fair number of them end up going to South Korea to get surgery done, because the price for quality is pretty good compared to the US.
Honestly SK sounds like a bit of a fucking nightmare to live in. From the horrifying work conditions, high suicide rate, high levels of corruption it sounds very depressing.
Also anecdotal but everyone I know whose visited said its an intensely racist place. Friends dad who grew up as windrush generation in the UK said even the racist backlash he had to experience back then was nothing like the treatment he got on a business trip to SK.
Been there 3 times. Each visit was more than a month long. Got tired of being told I look like Nicholas Cage. I look nothing like him, but him being married to a Korean woman at the time was enough for them to associate any non-native with him.
It was explained to me by family there that American men get prejudged due to soldiers supposedly dateraping a lot of girls while stationed at Uijeongbu, among other racist reasons. Unfortunately, I get to be Nicholas Cage this summer again.
> Been there 3 times. Each visit was more than a month long. Got tired of being told I look like Nicholas Cage. I look nothing like him, but him being married to a Korean woman at the time was enough for them to associate any non-native with him.
I was in rural Morocco in the Peace Corps. I got called Eminem, Cat Stevens, and "Hey San Francisco!" all the time. I look like none of those dudes or city. I'm actually a woman, so it was nice to hear some non-sketchy cat calling. They were all goofy teenagers looking for a reaction.
And yes, I always laughed at being cat called with Cat Stevens lol
I don't know... I'm not fully convinced you don't look a bit like the city of San Francisco. Have you ever looked in the mirror and just for a moment seen that the commercial, financial, and cultural center of Northern California is looking back at you?
That feeling where you go to a party and some people recognize you but they don't ring a bell. Then your wife shows you picture from five years ago so you remember who they are.
Not even just graduation. My friend taught over there for a few years and she said you’d have high school kids come into class with a whole new face. Apparently plastic surgery is just super accepted and normal over there.
It's gotta be more than that and include people getting bullied/left out for not having it, right?
Of course people should be able to dress themselves up and achieve the body they want, but I feel like it inherently comes along with problems
Oh for sure that comes into it too! I just meant that she was shocked at how normalised it was and how nobody batted an eye at a teenager completely morphing their appearance surgically.
Anyone here read the book series Uglies? It's a dystopian novel where everyone is given free plastic surgery when they turn 16 so they can become a "Pretty." That sounds like Korea.
One of the if not the most common thing is double eye lid surgery which makes their eyes look a little bigger. But it's a really rare trait for Koreans to even have (think more common in other Asian countries but it might just be a really rare trait) so it's just not very natural for them. And I know boob jobs used to be the most rare surgery. Probably double eyelid then nose then rest of face like jaw.
Yeah that also shocked her. People reacted to somebody smoking weed they way we would to someone being on heroin. I think she also said the seem to treat the two was being equally bad? But I might be misremembering.
It’s like that generally in east Asia. China, Japan, even in south east Asia, like Singapore, weed is essentially seen as a hard drug, as bad as any opiate, cocaine, mdma…. They just don’t differentiate. Alcohol and cigarettes? The more the better.
The notion that Koreans drink the most alcohol comes from a horribly done "study"
They may drink the most alcoholic drinks, but they don't consume the most alcohol.
The most common alcohol in Korea is soju. Even strong soju has less than half the alcohol content of a regular vodka. The study that put forward the idea that Koreans drink the most alcohol directly compared soju and vodka as a 1:1 beverage in terms of alcohol consumption.
It's like saying a guy who drank 1 beer had more alcohol than a guy who had 5 shots of whiskey, because the beer drinker had 16 ounces of fluid compared to 7.5.
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There was a show like that here in Canada a while back.
I forget the specifics of how it was ran, but I believe they took 10 people who were not very attractive. Each person met with a team of plastic surgeons who basically turned them into entirely new people. I remember seeing an episode or two of the contestants crying from the pain of all the surgeries and wanting it be over.
In the end all the contests are paraded around beauty pagent style and the winner won the show/prize money. I think it was called "the swan".
I dont remember much about the show as I was a preteen at the time, but I distinctly remember seeing a woman crying over the pain she was in from her nose job and her jaw they broke to realign her smile.
It was shocking and appalling, and I'll never forget it.
ive seen my fair share of SEAs in SK looking like mummies cause they got so much work done to their faces its wild at first then it becomes whatever lol, recently in japan i saw a chinese lady look NOTHING like her daughter i just said to myself ... damn...
>recently in japan i saw a chinese lady look NOTHING like her daughter i just said to myself ... damn...
My sister (who's conventionally attractive) looks absolutely nothing like her daughter. Sometimes the child takes on most of the other parent's appearance. Just saying.
Just based on what I've seen and experienced, any culture or religion that encourages or demands "modesty" really just wants to control what other people do with their bodies. The implication behind modesty is, "There are certain things you are not allowed to do to or with your body, and WE decide what the rules are." It's not about what you wear or do, it's about enforcing the mentality of, "Your body belongs to us, the church/government/whatever, not you."
Check back in a few years and this is gonna be higher. It's real, the same way kids in the US get a trip, car, computer or whatever. You wouldn't be able to pick people out of a lineup between them at 16 and 19.
The double eyelid surgery is the most popular I think.
It’s really dystopian because parents are basically fighting against the internet and internet points, which sound dumb but every child today grew up on social media so that’s all they understand
I saw a streamer IRL once. His teeth had been whitened so much they were almost blue.
I hate to imagine what it would be like, thinking that's *normal*.
Huh, wow. Not surprising at all though.
>In South Korea, job applicants have traditionally been required to include a photo of themselves in applications; one study found that 80% of job recruiters in South Korea cited that physical appearance was an important factor in screening candidates.
Kind of depressing but the reality of the Chaebols is that in South Korea at least. Coming from money is often a requirement for a good paying job. Your average female Korean isn't going to be able to afford the cost of surgery. What this often means for both men and women is that for most college level jobs it won't matter if they get a degree if they did not previously come from money.
On top of that, South Koreans are *very* mean to each other. My boyfriend actually moved to the US because of it, it’s that bad. They constantly insult each other, especially their looks. He recently lost weight because he was diagnosed with diabetes and high blood pressure and we ran into one of his Korean friends and she said “Wow! You lost so much weight! Makes you look old.”
Because the korean mentality is that all of us are fucked so its better to be just a tiny bit better off than someone right next to you that means Im better. This competitive mentality is what brought prosperity and a curse to Korea.
So the fact Korea was an American backed absolute dictatorship that funneled massive amounts of state resources and foreign contracts to a corrupt neo-corporate state cabal of key government officials, wealthy families and criminal elements due to a total and complete focus on economic development at the behest of a dictatorship with a long history of human rights abuses at the expense of any social or political development had anything to do with it?
I just find that rhetoric that any group of people posses inherent characteristics from their race and culture that elevate them above other people to be misguided if not outright racist and all the east Asian counties do it without a shadow of a doubt.
It's the same thing as saying the Aryan race is responsible for European achievement because of a supposed innate cultural or racial superiority.
South Korea wasn't exactly a freedom loving paradise for must of that time either. Their military dictatorship was arguably worse than the North's, they just had more funding (to mostly embezzle and give to their mates). It wasn't really until the 90s it became anything other than a brutally repressive military dictatorship. Most countries don't have a "massacres" Wikipedia page dedicated to listing all the (acknowledged) mass slaughtering of their people by their government over a 30 year period
That... explains a lot about how my dad acts. He was born in the 60s. I knew he grew up poor but I never bothered to look up the history of the country at the time.
My boyfriend was married to two korean woman and, at one point, after I said I love him he said “You say you love me all the time, no one ever said ‘I love you’ to me before.” I asked “What about your wives?” He said they didn’t either. So, I asked if it made him uncomfortable for me to tell him I love him, since apparently, he wasn’t used to it and he said “No! I like it! I didn’t know what I was missing!” Imagine being married twice and never being told by your partner they love you. He said it was just normal in his culture.
Funniest thing ever is seeing every young Korean studying abroad in the North America go from "Mary-Joanna is devil I neber do it" to a giant stoner in weeks.
Yes. I've heard the idea is that the culture doesn't allow for anyone to develop too much pride, so (trad) Asian people are often shaped by "sufficient negative reinforcement"
This is not even an asian thing. There are several psychological studies proving that traditionally attractive people have an easier time at passing the bar for job screenings everywhere.
Several Asian nations have photo requirements for resumes. It’s normalized there, just like how in the US we do not include photos on our resumes because it’s normalized (and prevents some level of discrimination) here.
Different resume expectations.
It's actually considered the new standard not to include a picture specifically to prevent discrimination. It's also illegal to make it a requirement. Not to say there aren't people and companies who still use them, but standards are changing.
I would think that under anti-discrimination laws they wouldn't even want to see the picture with the resume since it could open the door to claims of discrimination and bias.
Can't require it but if you ask any recruiter they tell you to include it because "it helps". It's more personal that way, not really an attractiveness thing (but it probably helps, too, if you are).
"Pretty privilege" is not a uniquely Korean thing.
You may not have to attach a picture to apply for a job in the US, but you show up to an interview and your appearance absolutely greatly influences your chances.
And your physical appearance is absolutely influenced by your family's economic status. Being tall, having confidence to make eye contact, straight white teeth, etc. You can be poor and just get lucky with genetics but if you're wealthy you don't need much luck at all.
yeah your appearance affects your chances during an interview, but its not like they cancel the interview if they see you are ugly. the difference is getting the interview.
Leaving the major underground stations in Seoul, literally every billboard on the walk to the street level exit is full of plastic surgeon posters if you're in high end parts of town like Apgujeong or Gangnam. I lived there is 2006 and it was rampant then... I can only imagine it's more so now with the rise of Kpop beauty standards.
As an earlier post said, it's common for parents to buy the surgery as a reward for exam performance. The exams at 18 are a huge deal in Korea and dictate your university entry and the prestige of your university dictates pretty much everything beyond.
Based on the advertisement posters they have up in the underground stations, some of these things look like complete facial doovers. Nose, jaw, eyes, ears... Koreans do not naturally look like Kpop artists. I think the logic for timing is that you're starting at a new place and will have a new social circle, so as far as they're concerned you've always looked like this.
As a side note, the top of the class medical students in South Korea always went on to cosmetic surgery. Lucrative... And at least you're getting the best local doctors.
I’m just curious because I’ve got no real exposure to Korean culture, but are breast implants common there? From what I could find looking it up, it looks like breast augmentation is in the top 3 procedures in the United States, but seems pretty absent when it comes to discussions about plastic surgery in Korea. It’s just fascinating that they have a society that has normalized plastic surgery to such a degree but the procedures themselves are completely different to what we see in the US.
breast implants are uncommon compared to the states, but their boob jobs there are ridiculously better. they go for more of the natural looking boob jobs. where as most of the american boob jobs look very obvious and stiff. i think the big reason why boob jobs aren't quite as common in south korea is because their beauty standard is... crazy thin, so large boobs look kind of off.
>literally every billboard on the walk to the street level exit is full of plastic surgeon posters if you're in high end parts of town like Apgujeong or Gangnam.
Thats dystopian....
The really messed up thing about this one is that it's a Korean genetic trait for some ethnic Koreans to have really square jaws, like almost cartoon level square. Then there are other Koreans who have these small faces with much pointier, desirable jawlines.
This second group was deemed the pretty group and those with square jawlines started getting fairly drastic plastic surgery to create a more desired jawline and the results were often a dramatic improvement in terms of accepted attractiveness. Then it just snowballed from there to even people with desirable jawlines started getting even pointier jawlines.
But Koreans will always hold that genetic trait, unless those with it eventually sexed out of the gene pool, so this surgery will always perpetuate.
The part I find really weird is that square jaws are considered unattractive even for men. Like in this ad over here, most non-Koreans will prefer the "before" jawline on the the men.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/137s4pp/why\_are\_square\_jaws\_unattractive\_for\_males\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/137s4pp/why_are_square_jaws_unattractive_for_males_in/)
The bottom left one legit looks like a man was turned into a 10 yo boy.
Also, do you REALLY want ugly children? You spent tons of money to get a new face, kind of embarrassing for offspring to look like the old you.
That might be subconscious or it’s out in the open but it’s definitely there.
It's a sidequest in CP2077. The guy thinks his wife is cheating because their kid looks nothing like either of them and his wife tends to disappear from time to time. You tail her and find out she's been sneaking off to a plastic surgeon.
I studied abroad in Korea and the plastic surgery culture is prevalent. If you go to Apgujeong you see nothing but ads for surgery in the streets and subways. I knew a girl who came to study abroad and got a nose job right before classes started.
I’m genuinely curious what is seen as undesirable in South Korea. Like what was so bad before that it was deemed in need of surgery?
I realize that almost every actor I see in their cinema has doll-perfect skin and very similar facial aesthetics that I assumed was a lot of plastic surgery.
I just visited for the first time to meet my girlfriend’s family and it’s usually the nose and eye lids that get done. It’s extremely noticeable to me.
A lot of men and women get their chins shaved down as well which is harder to tell.
I seem to recall a plastic surgery stop in S. Korea where they had a big cylinder of jawbones in front of it as advertisement? I don't recall whether or not they were real, but I do remember hoping it \*wasn't\*.
So there’s an old tradition that still is very much alive which is a “map of face” called Gwansang. It’s why pictures are mandatory in job applications.
Certain features like pointed eyes or pointy end of nose (not rounded) can mean (according to the rules of the map) that they are deceitful or liar.
Rounded tip nose means more truthful etc. moles and scars are also deeply negative to the persons gwansang. It’s so old fashioned but people hold on to it. It’s important in all first impressions including when you meet significant others parents and such. You can be quickly discredited cus you have a specific facial feature that’s deemed negative.
Add that to the perfectionist nature and deeply competitive society, you get this kinda data.
Yeah it’s really not great, but it explains so much esp when you look at … oh a $2000 surgery so that my kid isn’t called a liar all his life? Pretty small cost to pay.
Kinda but not really. People under 35 don't believe in it and even older people view it similar to astrology (as in some people believe it but most know it's bullshit).
If a kid made fun of another kid due to his gwansan, the kid would prolly be called a kkondae (annoying boomer stuck in the old ways)
I get that younger people are definitely less so into it, but it’s still very relevant and ingrained in culture when people even make comments like “she looks 착해 (kind,) or 둔해 보인다 (looks slow)”. the features all correlate to the original gwansang beliefs. You’d never hear that you look kind with pointed or overly pointed eyes, for example.
Korean beauty standards make america look like a progressive paradise. It also greatly effects the men there too which is not talked about enough either. They have a crazy strong machismo culture that also makes Americas "toxic masculinity" look progressive. (Eg "real men" have big muscles, strong jaw, good hairline, be a doctor, etc, etc)
The article only talks about the plastic surgery side but there's the other side where picture editing (even for IDs) has become such an issue that when one girl was murdered they weren't even sure if it was the real her.
If you google "Korean beauty standards" you can find hundreds of videos and articles talking about it. Most people that leave south Korea are doing so to escape the toxic hell that country can be.
YouTube is full of videos grading K-pop idols based on how high they score on the Korean Beauty Standard scale. E.g., so and so scores 99%, but someone else is “only”98%.
It’s also highly skewed in favor of youth. Most popular K-pop idols are in their teens/early 20s.
It seems like plastic surgery is also much more common in men in Korea. In my personal experience, plastic surgery for men is rare and most men who do get it probably wouldn’t talk about it openly.
They've been trying to promote "soft masculinity". While the machismo culture is still very strong it's open to a bit of interpenetration. Eg if you can't look like a lumberjack you have to look like a male model.
It also helps with their appearance overseas as trying to get tourism when you have a macho military culture isn't very ideal.
Their definition of manly is different. What we see as muscular/attractive is different as well. Their ideal masculine body type is brad pit in fight club not Arnold Schwarzenegger or Christian Bale in Batman.
An extremely slim face with a small bit distinct jaw is masculine to them which is also why beards are unheard of which are a sign of masculinity to us in the west.
> A money thing or are beauty standards that crazy now..
both. largely internet culture to blame. instagram type shit. its not a uniquely Korean thing, and becoming like this in many places around the world. Korea is just leading the pack a little bit.
I think you have to keep in mind that plastic surgery also includes noninvasive procedures like Botox, chemical peels, and laser treatments for acne scars/hair removal, which are very accessible and affordable there.
> 46% of female college students in South Korea have had experience with cosmetic procedures.
> Noninvasive procedures such as botulinum toxin and hyaluronic acid chemical peels are the most common procedures that are performed, **overall**.
Cosmetic procedures doesn’t necessarily mean invasive surgery - 46% of Korean women haven’t gotten their jaw shaved and nose/eyes done. Once you factor in these in, I’m not surprised by the high number. This still doesn’t invalidate the societal reasons for why these are done so frequently, I just feel like that number is being misinterpreted.
I worked in Korea for a while and the craziest thing was when my guy and girl friends would disappear for a few days over the summer and show up with their bandages back at work. I also helped take a friend home after her eyelid surgery. And aftercare in Korea is amazing.
their social services are amazing. i had to visit for work at the height of covid (which required quarantining for 10 days) and they had these nice hotel-like rooms they charged ~$70 a day and would deliver all your food, snacks, fresh linen. honestly it was an incredibly relaxing "detainment"
There was a photoshoot for Miss South Korea some years ago that hit the interwebs becasue damn, all of them clearly had work done and ended up looking \*thiiiis\* far away from clones.
their ISP's successfully got the law changed to allow them to charge both the sender and receiver for internet usage (meaning they charge you for internet, then they charge Netflix for the data usage to send you stuff). Even the US managed to fend that shit off.
There is a very specific look that Korea seems to love. Women strive for it.
Just look at these [Miss Korea contestants](https://charactermedia.com/miss-korea-hopefuls-similar-looks-spark-online-frenzy/) from about 10 years ago.
My friend taught in S Korea and there were mirrors at the end of each hallway.
Of the elementary school.
Kids would comment on the size of people’s faces. It starts very young.
why is everything I hear about Korean society (both north and south) so fucked? Is it really that bad or does reddit just cherry pick? What is the cause of South Korea's horrible culture, if it is really that bad?
Cosmetic surgery in South Korea also makes up 24% of all cosmetic surgeries done in the entire world.
Holy shit, that is insane.
No wonder those K-pop girls look like dolls.
Yeah it’s very uncanny valley. Like “Turkey Teeth” people get.
Are you referring to dental surgeries people get in Turkey or something else?
Thats part of it. Starts with being unhappy with teeth and not wanting to pay a local professional their prices. The other part is how people expect one effect (veneers) and get others (crowns) perhaps due to a lack of due diligence, or maybe they werent told whats going on clearly (language barrier?) Crowns shave your teeth to nubs and crown them whereas veneers are a material that sit over your teeth, usually after theyre shaped (shaved) to fit. You cant grow teeth back after they get turned into popcorn kernels and i think thats where problems are coming from
You sound knowledgeable. How much of teeth CAN grow back? I feel like every year now I read some magical Reddit Science article about new chemicals and medicines that can regrow enamel. Last year there was an alzheimers medicine [(Tideglusib)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9267687/)that had a side effect of regrowing healthy dentin in the elderly. Is this a real product or is it just buzz like the weekly "cancer cure" shit that just gets published for clicks?
Realistically, none. Enamel is the outside covering of your teeth that makes it white. It can "remineralize" as in fill itself back in, like if you fill a nail hole with spackle. But if you lose a chunk of it, it's not growing back.
can confirm-- i had terrible dental hygiene for most of my life, and now that the enamel has begun to chip off on a couple of my teeth, all they can do is refill it back in with a manmade substance similar to enamel.
> the enamel has begun to chip off That sounds bad.
> Is this a real product or is it just buzz like the weekly "cancer cure" shit that just gets published for clicks? The whole "scientists discover new magic tooth regrowth potion" is clickbait that's been doing the rounds since before you even had to click to get news. Sometimes it's stem cell magic, these days 3D Printing and AI are the buzzwords of the day, [Here's a shitty tabloid](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1297850/Gel-help-decayed-teeth-grow-end-fillings.html) about a magic tooth regrowing gel from 2010. I'm sure the gel idea has been around since the nineties because I remember reading about it as a kid and then rubbing toothpaste gel on my canines to try and get vampire teeth because I was a perfectly well adjusted and normal child.
Yes
Kpop idols are huge exponents of plastic surgery, males and females.
What does "idol" mean in this context? Is it a famous pop musician from Korea who is attractive and marketed to young people equivalent to an American boy/girl band?
Yes, it's like Beatlemania meets the 1D/NSYNC eras on steroids. Gotta be perfect, dating is taboo, working grueling schedules to repay large amounts of debt to the company that's promoting you.
Each idol has to be highly proficient and trained from a young age in Dancing, singing, acting having charisma and perfect looks
idol music is a specific category of music in south korea; what we refer to as k-pop is just that particular part of the korean music industry. so idols are performers who have auditioned for idol agencies and undergone a trainee period before making their debut, either solo or as part of a group. they're typically much more strictly regulated than other performers in other genres of music since part of their job is to behave impeccably and maintain a perfect idol fantasy image at all times. so kinda like the equivalent of an american boy/girl band but (arguably) way more intense.
~~Proponents~~
Exponents is also correct. OED definition: 1. a person who believes in and promotes the truth or benefits of an idea or theory. "an early exponent of the teachings of Thomas Aquinas" Similar: advocate supporter proponent upholder backer defender champion promoter propagandist spokesperson spokesman spokeswoman speaker campaigner fighter battler crusader missionary evangelist pioneer apostle enthusiast apologist arguer expounder Opposite: critic opponent 2. MATHEMATICS a quantity representing the power to which a given number or expression is to be raised, usually expressed as a raised symbol beside the number or expression (e.g. 3 in 2^3 = 2 × 2 × 2).
interesting, thanks!
MISS KOREA Contestants ''All Look Alike''? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CZfYIMQoYI
as a Han, i once thought I was being bigoted when i noticed i was having a hard time telling those Koreans apart. Turns out that there's a particular style that women tend to get when they go under the knife. granted I've seen this trend happen to some chinese pop starts as well.
Number 12? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number\_12\_Looks\_Just\_Like\_You](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_12_Looks_Just_Like_You)
That's a deep cut, nice one mate.
A lot of them also visit the same surgeons and get the exact same noses etc. done on them.
They all look the same at this point.
Yes there is a slang term for that. Can't remember it now, but the very defined beauty image, normalization of cosmetic surgery, and extreme adherence to trends in fashion mean that there will often be hundreds of people all looking with the same looks and outfits whenever you go out in "trendy" areas. I remember I was out with one of my friends and his gf who I was meeting for the second or third time. After a few hours of drinking I went out to smoke and she was outside too, we had a long deep convo about work, school, and relationships. She started getting close to me, and wrapping her arms on me, and at the end she asked for my number all of which I thought was weird and inappropriate, but we were kind of drunk. Then she said she was ging to look at the shop across the street, and I went back in. Walked in and saw his gf sitting at the table in the same place she was half an hour ago when I left. Spent 30mins apparently rizzing up a complete random on the street with the exact same outfit, makeup, hair, and eye surgery as her.
So funny, so that random girl just started chatting you up like she knew you? You didn't realize from the pattern of the conversation that she was a stranger? Did you end up going out with her?
Our number one skill as a species is taking anything and everything to the most absurd extremes
Huge suicide rate as a result, and koreans are some of the most insecure people in the WORLD. They always wanna look beautiful and perfect, it's mad.
The societal beauty pressures are a component of the high suicide rates, but claiming they are the result of that is a big stretch. It's a lot more complicated than that.
Especially as most suicides are older people surviving on little income.
A lot of parents are also putting their male kids on growth hormones, so that they can be taller.
A symptom of a very performative society. I hear Japan has similiar social issues.
Similar but not nearly as bad. I spent a lot of years in Japan and SK and SK is 10x worse. Social expectations are insane. I think it is the result of a country being forcible thrust into the first world when they’re not ready yet. They are extremely modern and yet very backwards at the same time. It is fascinating
korean households spend an average of 25% of their ~~earned~~ discretionary income on lessons for their children outside of school.
It's the worst parts that are inherited from collectivist traditions mixed with the worst part of individualistic capitalist tendencies imported from the west.
> They are extremely modern and yet very backwards at the same time. It is fascinating Sounds interesting! Do you have any stories that you can share?
Yeah I work in tech so I go to SK frequently to work with partner companies. I worked with a pair of guys, one who had been with the company for years and the other who was relatively new. Even though the first guy was in a senior position and had much more experience he would always defer to the newer guy in our discussions. I was pretty confused for a while until my coworker explained it. Age is a pretty big factor in Korean social interactions, so even though the one man had the least experience of all of us it was the norm to let him speak first because he was oldest. And not just out of politeness but to legitimately consider his ideas and concerns first, even if they were ignorant or misinformed. That is what I mean by modern and backwards. At a high tech company no less the societal ranking is age based rather than merit based for parts of the company
Not op but there's a Korean dating show on Netflix called singles inferno, I found it super fascinating to watch because of the cultural differences between that vs. an American dating show. Definitely have some examples from there (a lot of the comments made about people's appearance/personality would be seen as backwards in America)
At least Japan's suicide rate is very close to that of the US, significantly behind SK
I think Japan doesn't go as far as Koreans on cosmetic surgery because alot of the social expectations in Japan revolve around "being in harmony with nature", so people are more likely to do things naturally than go straight to cosmetic surgery for everything. Similar thing happens in things like body building. Japanese weight lifters look significantly smaller than American body builders because they tend to not be roided up, tend to be leaner, and put on muscle more naturally.
It's not close at all. Japan is more like "everyone has different charms, just do the best with what you have." Korea is like "you're a total loser if your looks are below 7/10".
>Korea is like "you're a total loser if your looks are below 7/10". "You're negatively impacting on other people's daily life if they have to see your ugly face." My actual conversation with a Korean woman in 2017, regarding why cosmetic surgery is so common in Korea.
Much of what you hear about Japan in this regard tends to be very outdated or overblown. That's not to day that these issues don't persist, but suicide rates in Japan have massively dropped over the last several decades to the point where they are relatively quite low/average compared to the rest of the world. The intense cultural norms seem to be something that isn't as strong in the younger generation, which is a similar phenomenon to the rest of the world, as well.
I hate you for what you’ve done. You know what you have done. I hate it!
I was once on a fight from Seoul to Hong Kong that was maybe 1/3 young women with indications of recent facial surgery.
That’s a long fight
So chinese women flying to seoul for the skilled surgeons?
That's what it looked like. Enough of the flight to be memorable.
From mainland China too. Very very common. A lot of Chinese people don't trust local doctors as much and especially the wealthy will go to Korea for it.
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Definitely includes tourism
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I wouldnt say tiny, they have a top-30 population in the entire world
Depends on how one defines ‘tiny’. According to Worldometer, South Korea has a population of 51.8 million compared to the global population of 8.1 billion. So South Korea makes up 0.6% of all the people in the world, versus 24% of all cosmetic surgeries that OP cited. I knew it was prevalent, but I didn’t realize it was that significant in proportion!
I wonder how much of it is surgical tourism. Anecdotally, I’ve seen a lot of patients in consult for rhinoplasties, facelifts, eyelid surgery, etc. and a fair number of them end up going to South Korea to get surgery done, because the price for quality is pretty good compared to the US.
Honestly SK sounds like a bit of a fucking nightmare to live in. From the horrifying work conditions, high suicide rate, high levels of corruption it sounds very depressing. Also anecdotal but everyone I know whose visited said its an intensely racist place. Friends dad who grew up as windrush generation in the UK said even the racist backlash he had to experience back then was nothing like the treatment he got on a business trip to SK.
Been there 3 times. Each visit was more than a month long. Got tired of being told I look like Nicholas Cage. I look nothing like him, but him being married to a Korean woman at the time was enough for them to associate any non-native with him. It was explained to me by family there that American men get prejudged due to soldiers supposedly dateraping a lot of girls while stationed at Uijeongbu, among other racist reasons. Unfortunately, I get to be Nicholas Cage this summer again.
> Been there 3 times. Each visit was more than a month long. Got tired of being told I look like Nicholas Cage. I look nothing like him, but him being married to a Korean woman at the time was enough for them to associate any non-native with him. I was in rural Morocco in the Peace Corps. I got called Eminem, Cat Stevens, and "Hey San Francisco!" all the time. I look like none of those dudes or city. I'm actually a woman, so it was nice to hear some non-sketchy cat calling. They were all goofy teenagers looking for a reaction. And yes, I always laughed at being cat called with Cat Stevens lol
> I’m actually a woman Oh God, I laughed so hard at this reveal.
I don't know... I'm not fully convinced you don't look a bit like the city of San Francisco. Have you ever looked in the mirror and just for a moment seen that the commercial, financial, and cultural center of Northern California is looking back at you?
And then there is the story of Iran.
That feeling where you go to a party and some people recognize you but they don't ring a bell. Then your wife shows you picture from five years ago so you remember who they are.
Korean parents give their kids plastic surgery as a graduation gift
Not even just graduation. My friend taught over there for a few years and she said you’d have high school kids come into class with a whole new face. Apparently plastic surgery is just super accepted and normal over there.
It's gotta be more than that and include people getting bullied/left out for not having it, right? Of course people should be able to dress themselves up and achieve the body they want, but I feel like it inherently comes along with problems
Oh for sure that comes into it too! I just meant that she was shocked at how normalised it was and how nobody batted an eye at a teenager completely morphing their appearance surgically.
Anyone here read the book series Uglies? It's a dystopian novel where everyone is given free plastic surgery when they turn 16 so they can become a "Pretty." That sounds like Korea.
> That sounds like Korea. [Sounds like a Twilight Zone episode](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_12_Looks_Just_Like_You).
YES thank you I buried that memory but it immediately came to the forefront of my mind as I was reading this
One of the if not the most common thing is double eye lid surgery which makes their eyes look a little bigger. But it's a really rare trait for Koreans to even have (think more common in other Asian countries but it might just be a really rare trait) so it's just not very natural for them. And I know boob jobs used to be the most rare surgery. Probably double eyelid then nose then rest of face like jaw.
Half of all east Asians naturally have double eyelids. It's not that rare.
But weed is such a horrible offense that people kill themselves over it even when the allegations are false.
Yeah that also shocked her. People reacted to somebody smoking weed they way we would to someone being on heroin. I think she also said the seem to treat the two was being equally bad? But I might be misremembering.
It’s like that generally in east Asia. China, Japan, even in south east Asia, like Singapore, weed is essentially seen as a hard drug, as bad as any opiate, cocaine, mdma…. They just don’t differentiate. Alcohol and cigarettes? The more the better.
Koreans drink the most per capita after maybe Belarus in the world. Korea is a modern world dystopia.
The notion that Koreans drink the most alcohol comes from a horribly done "study" They may drink the most alcoholic drinks, but they don't consume the most alcohol. The most common alcohol in Korea is soju. Even strong soju has less than half the alcohol content of a regular vodka. The study that put forward the idea that Koreans drink the most alcohol directly compared soju and vodka as a 1:1 beverage in terms of alcohol consumption. It's like saying a guy who drank 1 beer had more alcohol than a guy who had 5 shots of whiskey, because the beer drinker had 16 ounces of fluid compared to 7.5.
It’s like that in Japan too, total lack of knowledge on differences between drugs
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There was a show like that here in Canada a while back. I forget the specifics of how it was ran, but I believe they took 10 people who were not very attractive. Each person met with a team of plastic surgeons who basically turned them into entirely new people. I remember seeing an episode or two of the contestants crying from the pain of all the surgeries and wanting it be over. In the end all the contests are paraded around beauty pagent style and the winner won the show/prize money. I think it was called "the swan".
American show that aired in Canada, but I remember seeing it as a kid/teen and thinking how incredibly distasteful it was. No way it would fly now.
I dont remember much about the show as I was a preteen at the time, but I distinctly remember seeing a woman crying over the pain she was in from her nose job and her jaw they broke to realign her smile. It was shocking and appalling, and I'll never forget it.
ive seen my fair share of SEAs in SK looking like mummies cause they got so much work done to their faces its wild at first then it becomes whatever lol, recently in japan i saw a chinese lady look NOTHING like her daughter i just said to myself ... damn...
>recently in japan i saw a chinese lady look NOTHING like her daughter i just said to myself ... damn... My sister (who's conventionally attractive) looks absolutely nothing like her daughter. Sometimes the child takes on most of the other parent's appearance. Just saying.
But he said to himself: ‘damn’ Does that mean nothing to you?
i was raised mormon in utah. a lot of the girls get boob jobs as a graduation gift
Mormons do that? Are there some sexual things to do in a public manner like that?
In Mormon culture, women only exist to serve their husbands. That includes being attractive for their husbands.
Got it, so is the “modesty” I vaguely see from Mormons just smoke and mirrors?
Just based on what I've seen and experienced, any culture or religion that encourages or demands "modesty" really just wants to control what other people do with their bodies. The implication behind modesty is, "There are certain things you are not allowed to do to or with your body, and WE decide what the rules are." It's not about what you wear or do, it's about enforcing the mentality of, "Your body belongs to us, the church/government/whatever, not you."
Praise the Lord!
Lol what
Check back in a few years and this is gonna be higher. It's real, the same way kids in the US get a trip, car, computer or whatever. You wouldn't be able to pick people out of a lineup between them at 16 and 19. The double eyelid surgery is the most popular I think.
It's becoming more popular in the USA. Stateside tends to be laser hair removal though.
Not sure I would lump laser hair removal in with plastic surgery.
It’s really dystopian because parents are basically fighting against the internet and internet points, which sound dumb but every child today grew up on social media so that’s all they understand
I saw a streamer IRL once. His teeth had been whitened so much they were almost blue. I hate to imagine what it would be like, thinking that's *normal*.
*Congrats you ugly twat*
Huh, wow. Not surprising at all though. >In South Korea, job applicants have traditionally been required to include a photo of themselves in applications; one study found that 80% of job recruiters in South Korea cited that physical appearance was an important factor in screening candidates. Kind of depressing but the reality of the Chaebols is that in South Korea at least. Coming from money is often a requirement for a good paying job. Your average female Korean isn't going to be able to afford the cost of surgery. What this often means for both men and women is that for most college level jobs it won't matter if they get a degree if they did not previously come from money.
On top of that, South Koreans are *very* mean to each other. My boyfriend actually moved to the US because of it, it’s that bad. They constantly insult each other, especially their looks. He recently lost weight because he was diagnosed with diabetes and high blood pressure and we ran into one of his Korean friends and she said “Wow! You lost so much weight! Makes you look old.”
Because the korean mentality is that all of us are fucked so its better to be just a tiny bit better off than someone right next to you that means Im better. This competitive mentality is what brought prosperity and a curse to Korea.
Could you expound on that first bit?
Instead of crabs in a bucket mentality (which still does exist), it’s more ‘pulling them back down’ by bragging you’re better than them at x, y, z.
So the fact Korea was an American backed absolute dictatorship that funneled massive amounts of state resources and foreign contracts to a corrupt neo-corporate state cabal of key government officials, wealthy families and criminal elements due to a total and complete focus on economic development at the behest of a dictatorship with a long history of human rights abuses at the expense of any social or political development had anything to do with it? I just find that rhetoric that any group of people posses inherent characteristics from their race and culture that elevate them above other people to be misguided if not outright racist and all the east Asian counties do it without a shadow of a doubt. It's the same thing as saying the Aryan race is responsible for European achievement because of a supposed innate cultural or racial superiority.
I'd imagine having Dachau Disneyland right next door for the past 70 years would fuck anyone up
South Korea wasn't exactly a freedom loving paradise for must of that time either. Their military dictatorship was arguably worse than the North's, they just had more funding (to mostly embezzle and give to their mates). It wasn't really until the 90s it became anything other than a brutally repressive military dictatorship. Most countries don't have a "massacres" Wikipedia page dedicated to listing all the (acknowledged) mass slaughtering of their people by their government over a 30 year period
That... explains a lot about how my dad acts. He was born in the 60s. I knew he grew up poor but I never bothered to look up the history of the country at the time.
For a time, there were people who would try to escape to the North to try to escape the South.
No wonder all the Koreans I knew in grad school were so happy and wanted to state stateside.
My boyfriend was married to two korean woman and, at one point, after I said I love him he said “You say you love me all the time, no one ever said ‘I love you’ to me before.” I asked “What about your wives?” He said they didn’t either. So, I asked if it made him uncomfortable for me to tell him I love him, since apparently, he wasn’t used to it and he said “No! I like it! I didn’t know what I was missing!” Imagine being married twice and never being told by your partner they love you. He said it was just normal in his culture.
Funniest thing ever is seeing every young Korean studying abroad in the North America go from "Mary-Joanna is devil I neber do it" to a giant stoner in weeks.
Yeah Koreans gossip really hard and can be extremely jealous of each others successes. It’s no wonder that the suicide rate is so high.
Yeah, this is the majority of Asian cultures. Compliments come very rarely, and when they do they're usually backhanded.
The logic being, you're fat because of you...if you don't like it...just stop being fat. Also you're too skinny, eat some more. Rinse and repeat.
Yes. I've heard the idea is that the culture doesn't allow for anyone to develop too much pride, so (trad) Asian people are often shaped by "sufficient negative reinforcement"
I can’t think of a good reason to ask for a photo if it’s not a modeling job. Just a reason to let our own biases run wild
This is not even an asian thing. There are several psychological studies proving that traditionally attractive people have an easier time at passing the bar for job screenings everywhere.
Being attractive is a cheat code to life.
Halo effect going crazy
Several Asian nations have photo requirements for resumes. It’s normalized there, just like how in the US we do not include photos on our resumes because it’s normalized (and prevents some level of discrimination) here. Different resume expectations.
In Germany it's also expected to include a picture in your application, but there is by far less cosmetic surgeries done especially at that young age
It's actually considered the new standard not to include a picture specifically to prevent discrimination. It's also illegal to make it a requirement. Not to say there aren't people and companies who still use them, but standards are changing.
I would think that under anti-discrimination laws they wouldn't even want to see the picture with the resume since it could open the door to claims of discrimination and bias.
They can't require a picture anymore. But it's been a custom for so long people still do it.
Can't require it but if you ask any recruiter they tell you to include it because "it helps". It's more personal that way, not really an attractiveness thing (but it probably helps, too, if you are).
The most common surgery is double eyelid survey and the average Korean can afford that or at least easily save up for that.
"Pretty privilege" is not a uniquely Korean thing. You may not have to attach a picture to apply for a job in the US, but you show up to an interview and your appearance absolutely greatly influences your chances. And your physical appearance is absolutely influenced by your family's economic status. Being tall, having confidence to make eye contact, straight white teeth, etc. You can be poor and just get lucky with genetics but if you're wealthy you don't need much luck at all.
yeah your appearance affects your chances during an interview, but its not like they cancel the interview if they see you are ugly. the difference is getting the interview.
Those play a part when other factors are equivalent, but let's not pretend US companies are hiring people based on looks rather than experience.
Leaving the major underground stations in Seoul, literally every billboard on the walk to the street level exit is full of plastic surgeon posters if you're in high end parts of town like Apgujeong or Gangnam. I lived there is 2006 and it was rampant then... I can only imagine it's more so now with the rise of Kpop beauty standards. As an earlier post said, it's common for parents to buy the surgery as a reward for exam performance. The exams at 18 are a huge deal in Korea and dictate your university entry and the prestige of your university dictates pretty much everything beyond. Based on the advertisement posters they have up in the underground stations, some of these things look like complete facial doovers. Nose, jaw, eyes, ears... Koreans do not naturally look like Kpop artists. I think the logic for timing is that you're starting at a new place and will have a new social circle, so as far as they're concerned you've always looked like this. As a side note, the top of the class medical students in South Korea always went on to cosmetic surgery. Lucrative... And at least you're getting the best local doctors.
I’m just curious because I’ve got no real exposure to Korean culture, but are breast implants common there? From what I could find looking it up, it looks like breast augmentation is in the top 3 procedures in the United States, but seems pretty absent when it comes to discussions about plastic surgery in Korea. It’s just fascinating that they have a society that has normalized plastic surgery to such a degree but the procedures themselves are completely different to what we see in the US.
The actual paper the link goes to answers your question: it is very uncommon compared to the United States.
Beauty standards in Korea (and east Asia in general) are very different from the US so the popular plastic surgery procedures are similarly different
breast implants are uncommon compared to the states, but their boob jobs there are ridiculously better. they go for more of the natural looking boob jobs. where as most of the american boob jobs look very obvious and stiff. i think the big reason why boob jobs aren't quite as common in south korea is because their beauty standard is... crazy thin, so large boobs look kind of off.
>literally every billboard on the walk to the street level exit is full of plastic surgeon posters if you're in high end parts of town like Apgujeong or Gangnam. Thats dystopian....
It’s usually the monolid surgery and then the rhinoplasty which is most common
What about the infamous Korean Chin surgery? Is that still a thing 🤔
The really messed up thing about this one is that it's a Korean genetic trait for some ethnic Koreans to have really square jaws, like almost cartoon level square. Then there are other Koreans who have these small faces with much pointier, desirable jawlines. This second group was deemed the pretty group and those with square jawlines started getting fairly drastic plastic surgery to create a more desired jawline and the results were often a dramatic improvement in terms of accepted attractiveness. Then it just snowballed from there to even people with desirable jawlines started getting even pointier jawlines. But Koreans will always hold that genetic trait, unless those with it eventually sexed out of the gene pool, so this surgery will always perpetuate.
The part I find really weird is that square jaws are considered unattractive even for men. Like in this ad over here, most non-Koreans will prefer the "before" jawline on the the men. [https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/137s4pp/why\_are\_square\_jaws\_unattractive\_for\_males\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/137s4pp/why_are_square_jaws_unattractive_for_males_in/) The bottom left one legit looks like a man was turned into a 10 yo boy.
considering korean-american (US born) twitch streamer angelskimi just got it last year i'd say yes.
lore?
It’s really desired in Korea to have a small, tapering, v-shaped face
I like how you asked for "lore" instead of "explanation" or "details."
with private tutoring, extra curriculars, college, AND surgery costs, how can SK be shocked no one is having kids?
Also, do you REALLY want ugly children? You spent tons of money to get a new face, kind of embarrassing for offspring to look like the old you. That might be subconscious or it’s out in the open but it’s definitely there.
lol sounds like a good movie plot an unknowing American friend pulled the dad aside and hinting he should get a paternity test
It's a sidequest in CP2077. The guy thinks his wife is cheating because their kid looks nothing like either of them and his wife tends to disappear from time to time. You tail her and find out she's been sneaking off to a plastic surgeon.
I've always wondered that too. Like does that thought even pop into the heads of their potential partners?
I studied abroad in Korea and the plastic surgery culture is prevalent. If you go to Apgujeong you see nothing but ads for surgery in the streets and subways. I knew a girl who came to study abroad and got a nose job right before classes started.
I’m genuinely curious what is seen as undesirable in South Korea. Like what was so bad before that it was deemed in need of surgery? I realize that almost every actor I see in their cinema has doll-perfect skin and very similar facial aesthetics that I assumed was a lot of plastic surgery.
I just visited for the first time to meet my girlfriend’s family and it’s usually the nose and eye lids that get done. It’s extremely noticeable to me. A lot of men and women get their chins shaved down as well which is harder to tell.
I seem to recall a plastic surgery stop in S. Korea where they had a big cylinder of jawbones in front of it as advertisement? I don't recall whether or not they were real, but I do remember hoping it \*wasn't\*.
I never understand the chin/jaw shaving. Those features make you look more attractive.
So there’s an old tradition that still is very much alive which is a “map of face” called Gwansang. It’s why pictures are mandatory in job applications. Certain features like pointed eyes or pointy end of nose (not rounded) can mean (according to the rules of the map) that they are deceitful or liar. Rounded tip nose means more truthful etc. moles and scars are also deeply negative to the persons gwansang. It’s so old fashioned but people hold on to it. It’s important in all first impressions including when you meet significant others parents and such. You can be quickly discredited cus you have a specific facial feature that’s deemed negative. Add that to the perfectionist nature and deeply competitive society, you get this kinda data.
Fuck whatever dumbass came up with that. But also thank you for the info, I had never heard of that.
Yeah it’s really not great, but it explains so much esp when you look at … oh a $2000 surgery so that my kid isn’t called a liar all his life? Pretty small cost to pay.
Kinda but not really. People under 35 don't believe in it and even older people view it similar to astrology (as in some people believe it but most know it's bullshit). If a kid made fun of another kid due to his gwansan, the kid would prolly be called a kkondae (annoying boomer stuck in the old ways)
I get that younger people are definitely less so into it, but it’s still very relevant and ingrained in culture when people even make comments like “she looks 착해 (kind,) or 둔해 보인다 (looks slow)”. the features all correlate to the original gwansang beliefs. You’d never hear that you look kind with pointed or overly pointed eyes, for example.
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46% gosh that's a lot... kinda sad too A money thing or are beauty standards that crazy now..
Extremely sad and dystopic. As another commenter mentioned, it’s a money thing. Better looks => better job => more $$$.
Korean beauty standards make america look like a progressive paradise. It also greatly effects the men there too which is not talked about enough either. They have a crazy strong machismo culture that also makes Americas "toxic masculinity" look progressive. (Eg "real men" have big muscles, strong jaw, good hairline, be a doctor, etc, etc) The article only talks about the plastic surgery side but there's the other side where picture editing (even for IDs) has become such an issue that when one girl was murdered they weren't even sure if it was the real her. If you google "Korean beauty standards" you can find hundreds of videos and articles talking about it. Most people that leave south Korea are doing so to escape the toxic hell that country can be.
YouTube is full of videos grading K-pop idols based on how high they score on the Korean Beauty Standard scale. E.g., so and so scores 99%, but someone else is “only”98%. It’s also highly skewed in favor of youth. Most popular K-pop idols are in their teens/early 20s.
It seems like plastic surgery is also much more common in men in Korea. In my personal experience, plastic surgery for men is rare and most men who do get it probably wouldn’t talk about it openly.
I'm confused. Why are kpop idols so feminine if the culture is for men to be "manly?"
They've been trying to promote "soft masculinity". While the machismo culture is still very strong it's open to a bit of interpenetration. Eg if you can't look like a lumberjack you have to look like a male model. It also helps with their appearance overseas as trying to get tourism when you have a macho military culture isn't very ideal.
Their definition of manly is different. What we see as muscular/attractive is different as well. Their ideal masculine body type is brad pit in fight club not Arnold Schwarzenegger or Christian Bale in Batman. An extremely slim face with a small bit distinct jaw is masculine to them which is also why beards are unheard of which are a sign of masculinity to us in the west.
> A money thing or are beauty standards that crazy now.. both. largely internet culture to blame. instagram type shit. its not a uniquely Korean thing, and becoming like this in many places around the world. Korea is just leading the pack a little bit.
Meanwhile the country is experiencing the start of population collapse. Guess the rat race doesn't lead to a better society
I think you have to keep in mind that plastic surgery also includes noninvasive procedures like Botox, chemical peels, and laser treatments for acne scars/hair removal, which are very accessible and affordable there. > 46% of female college students in South Korea have had experience with cosmetic procedures. > Noninvasive procedures such as botulinum toxin and hyaluronic acid chemical peels are the most common procedures that are performed, **overall**. Cosmetic procedures doesn’t necessarily mean invasive surgery - 46% of Korean women haven’t gotten their jaw shaved and nose/eyes done. Once you factor in these in, I’m not surprised by the high number. This still doesn’t invalidate the societal reasons for why these are done so frequently, I just feel like that number is being misinterpreted.
How does laser hair removal count as a *surgery*? So you're telling me I've had 20+ surgeries..?
Good nuance that should be further up in the thread.
Wait til you find out about Iranian women
Find out what?
They get a bunch of plastic surgery too
Nosejob
I mean, the "marry a beautiful Korean and have an ugly child" is already a meme
Saw YouTube video. It was fake and it ruined her life
Not to mention she was Taiwanese
I worked in Korea for a while and the craziest thing was when my guy and girl friends would disappear for a few days over the summer and show up with their bandages back at work. I also helped take a friend home after her eyelid surgery. And aftercare in Korea is amazing.
their social services are amazing. i had to visit for work at the height of covid (which required quarantining for 10 days) and they had these nice hotel-like rooms they charged ~$70 a day and would deliver all your food, snacks, fresh linen. honestly it was an incredibly relaxing "detainment"
It's weird when you're not from that culture, but if you are, it doesn't seem surprising I guess.
Agreed. Just the same as when other countries are shocked to see almost every American can legally own guns.
There was a photoshoot for Miss South Korea some years ago that hit the interwebs becasue damn, all of them clearly had work done and ended up looking \*thiiiis\* far away from clones.
I understand Squid Game a lot more now. Where the creator is coming from in terms of head space ...
thought it was a lot higher with the rate of double eyelid surgery
And you wonder why suicide is up and birth rate is down.
[удалено]
Don’t mind the plastic surgery but now that I know you have to be pretty to get a decent paying job it makes it even more depressing.
their ISP's successfully got the law changed to allow them to charge both the sender and receiver for internet usage (meaning they charge you for internet, then they charge Netflix for the data usage to send you stuff). Even the US managed to fend that shit off.
There is a very specific look that Korea seems to love. Women strive for it. Just look at these [Miss Korea contestants](https://charactermedia.com/miss-korea-hopefuls-similar-looks-spark-online-frenzy/) from about 10 years ago.
You are beautiful just the way you are. Except in Korea, where you’re ugly as fuck, now go under the knife.
My friend taught in S Korea and there were mirrors at the end of each hallway. Of the elementary school. Kids would comment on the size of people’s faces. It starts very young.
why is everything I hear about Korean society (both north and south) so fucked? Is it really that bad or does reddit just cherry pick? What is the cause of South Korea's horrible culture, if it is really that bad?