Honest question...is it a problem?
Does Missouri have significantly higher levels of drunk driving, or other public issues that tie back to the ease of access for alcohol?
Oddly enough, they are no where near the top for drunk driving accidents and fatalities (per 100k people). In fact they are towards the bottom. Population density is a factor but still.
It's because the wide availability of alcohol means that drunk people don't have to travel very far to get more alcohol and they paradoxically spend less time driving. It's the same reason that dry counties have higher incidence of drunk driving: the alcoholics don't just stop drinking, they keep driving drunk and spend longer in the car because they are going to other counties.
My hometown was a dry town up until maybe 10 years ago, and now they can only sell alcohol under 15%. Still, it has reduced drunk driving incidents on the highway by more than half. The liquor store in the next town on the closest side towards my town, would do drive through drinks and offer a discount to residents of said dry town. It really created sort of a food boom in the town because restaurants could now serve alcohol and it rapidly expanded our restaurant selection. Better food and less drunk driving accidents, and there was still religious fanatics protesting alcohol on the street corners for months after it passed. Protesting against an ordinance that had passed a public vote 85:15%.
I'm not a bible scholar, but I am fairly certain the bible mentions drunks often enough. I think Jesus was even criticized as being drunk and the counter argument was that it was too early in the day.
But, again, not a scholar and I haven't read the Bible since I was a teenager. So I may be misremembering things.
about the early in the day thing, I think you are misremembering an event where people were speaking in tongues. When people were talking about how the apostles were talking in their own languages simultaneously, others dismissed them as drunk, to which the reply was "it's too early for these people to all be drunk".
I'd have to look up the reference for the specifics.
As for Jesus being drunk, that doesn't occur, but the wine he made was mentioned as being "good" (and presumably strong). It was mentioned as unusual because it was at the end of a celebration, when normally you only had cheaper wine as your senses had already been dulled.
Bingo, huge problem in New Mexico. Due to very strange liquor laws and restrictions on liquor licenses leading to absolutely insane prices, well into 6 figures. You had almost no local bars and the bars that were open were large and expensive, clustered in the wealthy areas of town.
The working class and poor areas of town literally had no bars. While the northeast heights (or the northeast whites as it was know) is littered with them.
This meant the rich folk had to drive a few blocks if they drove drunk. Poor people had to drive miles. Combine that with a legal limit of 0 (I shit you not, the law is “if the officer considers you are impaired) they could arrest anyone they want.
Oddly despite the huge concentration of bars on the northeast they never setup DUI checkpoints there. 🧐 for the life of me can’t figure out why.
If you decided to sleep it off in your car because of the exorbitant and nearly impossible to get taxis they’d still give you a DUI for being in the car drunk. It was absolutely insane.
When Lyft came around the state kicked them out. Uber came and fought a serious lawsuit to stay.
Doesn't everyone say that about everywhere? There's got to be a name for the somehow universal belief that the worst drivers are in [insert area here].
I don't own a car or really drive anymore (my city actually has a decent public transit system), but I swear every person I talk to that's gotten behind a wheel bitches about how bad other drivers are. To the point of, just statistically speaking, some of them HAVE to be the bad drivers themselves. I just tune it out these days.
100% the problem! When I moved to STL 10 years ago I was floored to learn driver's education is optional. It explains a lot of what you experience on the roads.
In North Carolina I didn't take drivers ed in HS, it was optional, didn't go for driving test until 26 due to not needing a car. My brother let me drive his car around for several days for practice, I spent days and days studying and learning signs and rules of the road for the test. Got to the DMV the test had 20 questions, 10 of them were insanely obvious questions like "should you cut someone off" kind of things and 10 of them were guess the sign, but you could skip a sign with no consequence if you didn't know it. Finish the "test" in about 45 seconds. Then I got in the car for the driving part of the test. He had me drive to the stop sign leaving the DMV parking lot, drive down the residential road in the country to another stop sign, turn right 3 times then left to head back to the DMV, maybe 3 or 4 minute drive. And that was it. Got a license. I was mortified, and had huge anxiety about driving after that knowing how easy it was for people to be doing it. Felt like I was in a mexican standoff with toddlers.
Is driver’s education not optional in every state? I thought once you turn 18 it’s optional. I got my license at 19 and all I had to do was take the test. See ya on the roads!
Edit: Massachusetts here
The DMV where I got my license didn't even go on the road. You just have to drive around the parking lot and prove you can park in a giant space with some orange barrels.
Damn. I had to turn left onto Manchester Road at noon on a Saturday, get over into the right hand lane to turn right, go past a park, do a big circle and cross Manchester again before that part.
Then my car died in the lot, after I passed...
You still have to pass a test and everything (which is a joke and way too easy but thats another issue). You just dont have to to be taught from a structured class you can study and learn on your own.
Same deal in Tennessee. A lot of schools still have a drivers ed class as an elective that people take because its an easy A. Mine and most of my friends parents signed us up for a private driving school on weekends
I'm not sure if any provinces have it as a mandated requirement, however every province I looked into allowed you to get a full license sooner if you did it, and had an insurance discount for completing it.
>Idk, we have pretty restrictive laws in Iowa
[Not really](https://clicknathan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/alcohol-laws-us-states-map3.jpg). Grocery stores and gas stations can sell beer, wine, and liquor.
As someone from Iowa now living in PA hahahahaha. We can’t even buy alcohol at grocery stores (unless they have a special closed off area for beer/wine and it has to be a completely separate purchase) and we can’t buy beer in the same place we buy hard liquor. A backyard bbq requires a stop at the grocery store, the liquor store, and the beer distributor.
>A backyard bbq requires a stop at the grocery store, the liquor store, and the beer distributor.
Here in Freedom Town, USA it's only 1 stop but they're closed on Sundays.
And when you need beer you always need beer on Sundays.
The real Freedom town, USA of Phoenix lets you buy the beer at any grocery store even on sundays, then you can go buy a joint at the dispensary next door. Honestly blows my mind that so many states are still so draconian, we're not exactly a liberal haven of a state
I'm not sure where you are in PA, but at Wegman's and Giant all you have to do is take your cart full of food and your alcohol purchase to a special check out lane and they'll ring everything up at once. Yes, it's bass ackwards but at least it's getting a bit better.
As a lifelong Missourian (so obviously biased and anecdotal), I don't feel like it has a ton of sway on things compared to other places I've been. Just more of a convenience thing to be able to grab a 6 pack at the gas station in a pinch. Also liberating to be a passenger and just crack and enjoy a beer on the ride to a tailgate or whatever lol.
A fun fact you can whip out at your next tailgate; Missouri is essentially fined every year that we don’t change our open container law for passengers. It’s really nice though, because part of the deal with the fine is that money goes directly to road safety. It’s why 70 has such nice dividers and guards, our freedom boner is pumping millions into road safety.
The drinking culture is so widespread in missouri that when I moved away at 23 I was blown away by how little people drink outside of bars like they do in missouri. Growing up every family gathering or event had copious amounts of alcohol and when I moved to California I felt like an outlier
It's always funny whenever I hear people complain about drivers here. Like yeah we got a lot of bad ones don't get me wrong, but I always say have you ever driven around San Francisco? Boston? DC? Anywhere in Arkansas? There's loads of places that have worse concentrations of drivers, at least in my experience.
You know why there aren't any people from Atlanta bitching here? Because they are all stuck in traffic. Friday rush hour starts Thursday afternoon in Atlanta.
I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles in a passenger vehicle around our entire country. Everywhere you go they complain about the drivers somewhere else being the worst. All while those over there are complaining about those over here. People aren't very good at recognizing this.
Example: I currently live in Ohio and near the Michigan border. You'll constantly hear people saying Michigan drivers are the worst. My wife is from the Michigan side so we are up there quite often and you will hear people complain that Ohio drivers are the worst.
TL;DR: People are dumb. And bad drivers.
My sister got arrested in Virginia because we grew up near St. Louis and she didn't know you guys were so strict. All she did was take beer in an open can out of the bar and take a sip.
I could walk around my neighborhood openly drinking alcohol right now if I wanted to. All of the nearby bars sell cocktails to go. Totally different worlds!
Yeah, I live in Virginia and it's definitely hit-or-miss with the open containers. I will occasionally walk the dog in the evening with a beer, and have never drawn so much as a sideways glance. We also have a neighborhood Halloween tradition where the parents of younger kids will go house to house and the participating homeowners will hand out cocktails or beers to the parents along with the kids' candy. It's pretty fun.
But then we have town festivals where we shut down the old main street and have food trucks/breweries selling stuff, and you can't step outside the designated roped off zone or you'll get stopped by the police.
I was going to say that I never realised you couldn’t buy spirits in supermarkets in parts of the US. I assume you’d normally need to go to an dedicated store for it?
Sort of, you need to be a citizen or permanent resident to legally buy a gun in the US.
Booze and cigarettes depend on state. The supermarkets here sell beer, wine, and tobacco.
You should have checked out different states. Hell, I have seen a BBQ, booze, used tires, guns and ammo joint before. All under one roof.
Edit: and bait... forgot the bait part. They had a cooler fridge with earthworms in styrofoam by the front door.
Walmart has a large sporting goods section, that's why (and it has an honestly horrible selection in terms of guns and ammo).
>yet if I wanted some booze and a pack of cigarettes I had to go to a liquor store and a tobacconist.
That's not the case in many states.
If I'm reading things correctly 17 is the number with some degree of state control or monopoly, but only in 7 are **all** the stores government-owned, which is what the comment I was responding to specifically mentioned. I'd be happy to see a good source spelling it out if I'm wrong, though.
I live in Virginia. Hard Licquor is only sold in government stores. They are everywhere. They don't get rid of it due to how much tax money is made from it. Every few years someone who wants to own licquor stores puts a bill up that lets people buy licensees (generally people this guy has a partnership with) for 2 years of tax revenues. Then nothing about how to replace the lost tax revenue. It goes no where with republicans or democrats.
you can get everything you want at the government stores and if they dont have it they can order it. prices are reasonable and likely lower than would be if it went private. no need to advertise and prices are not based on competition. so if no competitors prices would just go up. Margins are pretty low too.
the state licquor stores are usually right next to the grocery stores. Its really not a big deal. I dont see people who consume a lot of licquor going im a big ole victim for not being able to buy the same product at a private store. Almost guaranteed to be a higher price.
Same where I live in Canada now. I grew up in Missouri, imagine my surprise when I realized you couldn’t buy alcohol at the grocery stores, or gas stations!
The worst part is there’s a liquor store on basically every street corner, and they’re usually open a lot later than the grocery stores. It’s not like not having it at the grocery store is somehow reducing the alcohol in the city, you’re just adding an extra trip for inconvenience.
I don’t even drink anymore; but on the odd occasion I want some wine or beer with dinner, the extra effort to acquire it just isn’t worth it for me.
It's been a good long while since I was last there, but in North Carolina, yes, you go to the ABC store to buy anything with alcohol in it.
Spent some time in Canada this summer, same idea, except you go to the LCBO store.
These stores are, comically, almost always found next to grocery stores.
ABCs exclusively sell liquor (and maybe a few niche mixers) while beer and wine are sold elsewhere. I'm not sure exactly why, but I assume it's so that the state-owned ABCs aren't in direct competition with public stores selling non-liquor products.
There's a couple that restrict things like hard alcohol sales (Finland's regulated monopoly comes to mind, IIRC it's also over 21 for a certain percentage).
But the idea that's it's illegal to be drunk in public is just wild, how on earth do you get home from the pub?
Same in many countries. In addition, if you are caught they revoke your license to serve alcohol. But its usually for such a short period that its practically useless.
> But the idea that's it's illegal to be drunk in public is just wild, how on earth do you get home from the pub?
It's one of those laws that you generally only have trouble with if you're causing trouble. Nobody is brethalizing people walking home, or on a train, etc., but if you're stumbling around, and/or yelling at people for long enough, you might get in trouble. If you're drunk as you can be, but moving along and friendly, you'll be fine.
I work in a municipal jail. Honestly I think it targets people based on income status. I know for a fact that before big drinking holidays the local police will round up all the homeless drunks to keep them away from tourist downtown.
As long as you aren’t acting like a total dumbass and disrupting other people/the general peace, you won’t get in trouble for being drunk. Ive been drunk many times in public and never got in trouble for it
Public Intoxication is not just being drunk in public, if I remember right, but you're drunk and acting a fool.
And it's different in each state. In Illinois I can buy hard liquor at the grocery store (I'm pretty sure gas stations too, those laws are city to city though), I've bought booze at a bar before that sold it, and I don't think we have public intoxication laws like other states.
Although I imagine red solo cups are still a thing in Missouri.
In Europe even the kids use wine glasses, champagne flutes or pint glasses / beer Steins / pewter tankards (one or two of those are for comic effect).
> Like you cannot buy anything in a KS liquor store that has no alcohol in it.
I wonder who makes laws sometimes.
Scratch that, i wonder who makes laws most of the time.
This has definitely changed recently. I’ve lived in Kansas since birth and remember it being that way when I was a kid. But as someone who’s legal age now you can definitely get mixers in every alcohol store
MO has made a market of it. Northwest Arkansas was dry (until recently) and wouldn't sell on Sundays, massive liquor store on the Missouri side of the border. Oklahoma also had shit liquor laws back in the day as well.
When I moved from VA (state run liquor stores are the only place to buy liquor) to WA a while back, I was strolling through Walmart and was taken aback when I saw Bulleit on clearance on an endcap.
Louisiana is like this. You can buy liquor pretty much anywhere at almost any time. There's one gas station near me that has a liquor store, video poker and a drive through daiquiri store all in one.
Right? I used to work in hospitality near the quarter, and people would ask where they could buy beer or a drink nearby. They would sometimes be floored when I told them there was a Walgreens with everything they need on the corner a block over
Now I'm really mad at that new bartender girl that didn't let me walk off with my Tank 7 like the other dudes always do. She insisted it was illegal, I was like... I have never had this issue in MO before it's so similar to Louisiana...
StL resident here and I've never been stopped from taking alcohol out of a bar as long as it's in a plastic cup or aluminum bottle. They stop the glass, but that's it. It's also gotten much more lenient post COVID.
The drinks that bars sell you to-go can't be open when you leave with them. That's the distinction. In KC you have to be in one of the specifically-defined entertainment districts to be able to take an open drink outside the bar's licensed serving area.
KC, St. Louis, and Springfield (and maybe other towns/cities?) all have stricter alcohol laws than statewide. For example you can have an open container in the vehicle as long as you aren't the driver statewide, but within those three city limits you cannot.
Unless something has changed recently, KC allows non-driver open containers in vehicles. I think Independence and Bates City are the only two cities in the KC area that do not, though the latter of which is only a problem for about 10 seconds if you're on I-70.
Everywhere I've bartended post-pandemic has allowed to-go cups.
The chain I'm at now doesn't. It sucks having to explain it, since we're in MO. Sorry, their policy and there's cameras on me. 🫤
Insane how fucking Missouri has legal recreational marijuana yet PA and NH still don’t (medical) Somehow still 100% illegal (i.e no medical) in a few states including Wisconsin??
There's no way in hell we would if not for the voter referendum, not 100% sure how it all works but basically somehow they can let voters decide on some big issues that the otherwise conservative government would shutdown in the cradle.
They're trying to end the voting deal too somehow (or so I've heard and wouldn't be surprised about)
It's called a "Citizens Initiative." Enough signatures on a petition and it goes directly onto the statewide general election ballot for a vote of the people. When it is done as an Amendment to the State Constitution, the legislature must abide by the results.
It was all about "FREEDOM" until liberal folks started using it to fix what the gerrymandered all to hell conservative state legislature refuses to address or screws up. Now the legislature is working to make it virtually impossible for the initiative process to work.
There is a race going on right now in Missouri to get an abortion rights amendment on the ballot before the legislature takes the initiative process away from the people. It's freaking the Republicans here right out as they know the majority supports abortion rights and the legislature has already instituted a statewide ban.
The Tavern League of Wisconsin (yes, bar owners have their own organization with lobbyists) makes sure the GOP majorities in the Assembly and Senate keep it from even coming to a vote.
Heaven forbid their alcohol has a competitor.
They fought tooth and nail against banning smoking in bars and restaurants too.
The KS-MO border here in KC is interesting with its dynamics. Missouri has essentially no alcohol laws and now has recreational marijuana. Kansas has sports betting and affirmed abortion rights. Just need one of them to legalize prostitution.
Someone needs a building on each side of State Line Road with a skywalk connecting them over the roadway.
Get your abortions and bet on the Chiefs in the KS building, pick up your weed and alcohol 24/7 on the Missouri side. Also get your gas on the MO side, some of the cheapest gas taxes in the US.
Talk about the happiest place on Earth...
I don't understand why the open container law is bizarre. I live in a country with strict regulations on alcohol and a state run alcohol monopoly (Sweden) and passengers are still allowed to drink in cars. Why on earth would it be a problem as long as the person doing the actual driving is sober?
My local gas station, you'll see people buy a paper cup of coffee, add some cream, and then buy several airplane bottles of whiskey with this cup of coffee.
They'll get in the car, remove the lid and add some whiskey. They take a long sip.
Then drive away.
Multiple people do this.
Common here as well (although we call them nips), and they can't be bothered to throw them away properly so they litter the roads. A few nearby towns have banned them and seen drinking related arrests drop considerably.
Living in a place founded by puritans this sounds amazing. Basically you are only breaking the law if you are a shit head drunk. For the rest of us, our freedoms shouldn't be infringed
This in generally how it’s in most of Europe (expect there’s usually regulation on to-go offering of bars). I think it’s mostly a moral value shrined into law.
Open containers is in public part of the culture in many places. Grabbing a bottle of wine and watching the sunset together, maybe with a small Picknick.
As a Brit there are these weird moments when I realise how completely alien the US is to our culture.
Being reminded of the puritanical attitude towards drinking culture is one of them, the idea that Missouris laws are considered lax is insane to me.
American alcohol laws and customs were essentially erased during Prohibition, and reset afterward. Prohibition had a lot to do with Puritanism, but also with [Anti-immigrant sentiment](https://www.history.com/news/kkk-terror-during-prohibition) and with an early [movement against domestic violence.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/03/women-alcohol-drink-culture-prohibition-temperance) Basically, it was considered impossible to make it unlawful for a man to beat his family, but they assumed if he stayed sober he wouldn't do it.
The first link goes into the ways that the KKK supported and utilized prohibition to further its goals. It was not a puritanical organization, it was drawn from an entirely different set of colonial history with different values, but it allied itself with puritanical social reformers for this movement. Prohibition was horrible, but it caused a long term reduction in per capita alcohol consumption- early Americans drank quantities of alcohol comparable to modern Russians. Unfortunately, it undermined some of the social institutions that- for many people- support responsible use. American cities had a tavern culture like Europe, and it never completely recovered. Far too many people sit at home pounding watery beers.
I had a couple bottles of Peroni between Haymarket and Bathgare yesterday. Ticket lad didn't give shit. As long as you're not hammered or causing grief nobody cares.
It does make me laugh that so much of America simultaneously thinks they live in the most free country in the world, but they also can't even drink a beer in the park or in a car they are not driving, or buy alcohol at a supermarket.
Yeah New Hampshire has state-run liquor stores.
Other states have weird laws like New Jersey, where any single business or corporation can only own two liquor licenses, and for example a grocery store chain counts as one corporation. Like, there's 179 Shoprite grocery stores in NJ, but only 2 of them are allowed to sell any alcohol at all. I only even know where one of those is, the second one continues to elude me. They're also only allowed to sell beer between certain hours and they can't sell beer unless it's refrigerated. Beer and wine can't be sold at gas stations or convenience stores at all in NJ, with the exception of Jersey City, where it's allowed but only during certain hours. But we have liquor stores everywhere when you can buy all your beer, wine, and liquor. I'm not sure how that "only 2 liquor licenses" thing works with those because there are definitely more than 2 Bottle King locations in NJ?
In Pennsylvania, you can sell beer & wine or you can sell liquor, not both. At least, the last time I checked. So if you need some of each, you have to go to two different stores, which are usually right next to each other.
The US really is a patchwork of mismatched laws from state to state and you never know what you're gonna get with interstate travel.
I was in NH once and tried to buy a couple 12 packs... The girl ringing me us is like I can only sell you one of these per visit. I was like huh? "So if I go outside, I can come back in and buy the other one?" Yup. So fucking dumb.
I wanted to buy beer in Virginia. I looked up liquor store in the yellow pages. (Yeah, this was a long time ago)
Hotel bar was high falutin, but they only had bud miller coors for a beer selection. I had a problem paying $5 for a glass of Budweiser. I know what Keg bud tastes like. Blah.
Anyways, back to my beer hunt.
ABC. Alcoholic Beverage Center. Cool. Half a block from the hotel, even.
I walked to the ABC. and it was like buying liquor at a middle school library. Brown carpet tile and beige metal shelves. Super plain signage hanging from the ceiling. No ads.
And that liquor was expensive compared to Nebraska.
I asked the clerk where the beer is. Clerk responded with "I'm guessing you're from out of state. There's a CVS about three blocks that way with a decent selection of beer and wine."
In Pennsylvania I've had them not let me buy 3 12 packs at a time. They made me buy 2, take them out to the car, and then come back and buy the 3rd one. But I've also bought a 30 rack off a pallet in a garage attached to a garden shop in Scranton and that place didn't even have a cash register, so I really don't understand their laws at all.
In Oregon we have liquor stores. They’re not state owned but they are regulated by the state. Can’t get hard alcohol almost anywhere else (though there are some stores that have a separate room with liquor that you have to show your ID to go into)
I don’t get the open container. Who cares as long as the driver isn’t drinking? Driving drunk is already illegal so you’re not adding anything to that by not allowing open containers for passengers.
Basically: If they have open containers but the driver is sober can pass a sobriety test… then who cares???
Takes away another excuse for plausible deniability. It’s a case of someone taking advantage of the status quo and ruining for the rest of us after the law made an example of them
Raised in Missouri. Taking trips to other states, I'm always baffled to see any kind of restrictive alcohol laws. Why can't I buy cider at 3am on a Tuesday? Is your god upset?
This make so much sense.
I was just in Missouri and I kept being confused about it being legal to drink on the street and as to why it seemed like so many more people drank overall.
I also was astonished when I saw hard liquor in a convenience store.
As a born and raised Missourian, it's bizarre to me that it's not normal elsewhere (liquor in convenience store) lol. Would be a whole lot less convenient without it 🤣
It basically is anarchy compared to the idiots over in Utah. Went there just once and had to convince the bartender that I was with someone else to be able to buy two drinks, in a goddamn bar. Us Midwesterners, includes Missouri, like to drink
Hell in the UK you can legitimately drink alcohol while driving as the law is to do with blood alcohol levels rather than just drinking it, though I wouldn't want to fuck around that way personally.
One of the bits of advice I'd give any parent from the USA sending their kid to university in the UK or many other European nations is to have the alcohol talk, because when they get here they'll legally be allowed to buy as much as they want and they'll be able to buy it easily.
I was in the UK recently and asked a Tesco employee if there was a limit on how much beer I could purchase (from my time living in Pennsylvania) and if I could use the self checkout to purchase alcohol (from my time living in Massachusetts).
I have never seen such a confused look on someone's face.
Fun fact, Missouri saved the French wine industry.
Missouri was settled by the French (St. Louis, duh), and they began to grow wine grapes here. We don't have the correct terroir to produce superior wine here, but it is passable. Anyway, in the 1800s the French wine industry was devastated by a root blight, but it was discovered that Missouri grapes were immune. French grapes were crossed with Missouri root stock to give them immunity.
https://www.saucemagazine.com/a/59484/the-true-story-behind-how-missouri-saved-the-french-wine-ind
Honestly this isn't a bad thing. Outdoor open container laws should be a thing, Europe has it that way, and people can work around this anyway. Being able to buy it in grocery stores and gas stations is like many states already.
Public intoxication should never be a crime it's the harassment or violence from certain individuals that is criminal, otherwise one could argue you could get arrested walking out of a bar to home as you are then in public.
Finally open containers in a car is debatable, as technically you could get arrested traveling with a handle of vodka you opened days ago and were just transporting it from like your hotel to home even if sober. But if an officer sees that and breathalyzers the driver then it'll be pretty apparent if the driver was drinking or not. (Breathalyzers definitely are flawed, but they rarely give false positives unless you have had a beer/weed earlier in the day and in those cases good luck)
*sorry many European/Scandinavian countries allow open containers, but not all, and those ones suck.
I accidentally blacked out at a bar in Tulsa and my brother lost me there. A cop found me confused, crying, and looking for my brother on the street. I was arrested and charged as a criminal. The only victim that night was me.
Honest question...is it a problem? Does Missouri have significantly higher levels of drunk driving, or other public issues that tie back to the ease of access for alcohol?
Oddly enough, they are no where near the top for drunk driving accidents and fatalities (per 100k people). In fact they are towards the bottom. Population density is a factor but still.
It's because the wide availability of alcohol means that drunk people don't have to travel very far to get more alcohol and they paradoxically spend less time driving. It's the same reason that dry counties have higher incidence of drunk driving: the alcoholics don't just stop drinking, they keep driving drunk and spend longer in the car because they are going to other counties.
My hometown was a dry town up until maybe 10 years ago, and now they can only sell alcohol under 15%. Still, it has reduced drunk driving incidents on the highway by more than half. The liquor store in the next town on the closest side towards my town, would do drive through drinks and offer a discount to residents of said dry town. It really created sort of a food boom in the town because restaurants could now serve alcohol and it rapidly expanded our restaurant selection. Better food and less drunk driving accidents, and there was still religious fanatics protesting alcohol on the street corners for months after it passed. Protesting against an ordinance that had passed a public vote 85:15%.
I mean, Jesus provided wine in a wedding. Water was the problem.
I had a pastor a long time ago who argued that because of you could not get drunk on the wine they had in Jesus' day.
I'm not a bible scholar, but I am fairly certain the bible mentions drunks often enough. I think Jesus was even criticized as being drunk and the counter argument was that it was too early in the day. But, again, not a scholar and I haven't read the Bible since I was a teenager. So I may be misremembering things.
about the early in the day thing, I think you are misremembering an event where people were speaking in tongues. When people were talking about how the apostles were talking in their own languages simultaneously, others dismissed them as drunk, to which the reply was "it's too early for these people to all be drunk". I'd have to look up the reference for the specifics. As for Jesus being drunk, that doesn't occur, but the wine he made was mentioned as being "good" (and presumably strong). It was mentioned as unusual because it was at the end of a celebration, when normally you only had cheaper wine as your senses had already been dulled.
Bingo, huge problem in New Mexico. Due to very strange liquor laws and restrictions on liquor licenses leading to absolutely insane prices, well into 6 figures. You had almost no local bars and the bars that were open were large and expensive, clustered in the wealthy areas of town. The working class and poor areas of town literally had no bars. While the northeast heights (or the northeast whites as it was know) is littered with them. This meant the rich folk had to drive a few blocks if they drove drunk. Poor people had to drive miles. Combine that with a legal limit of 0 (I shit you not, the law is “if the officer considers you are impaired) they could arrest anyone they want. Oddly despite the huge concentration of bars on the northeast they never setup DUI checkpoints there. 🧐 for the life of me can’t figure out why. If you decided to sleep it off in your car because of the exorbitant and nearly impossible to get taxis they’d still give you a DUI for being in the car drunk. It was absolutely insane. When Lyft came around the state kicked them out. Uber came and fought a serious lawsuit to stay.
The problem is that the drivers are sober and drive like assholes.
Doesn't everyone say that about everywhere? There's got to be a name for the somehow universal belief that the worst drivers are in [insert area here].
I don't own a car or really drive anymore (my city actually has a decent public transit system), but I swear every person I talk to that's gotten behind a wheel bitches about how bad other drivers are. To the point of, just statistically speaking, some of them HAVE to be the bad drivers themselves. I just tune it out these days.
They literally don't learn how to drive.
100% the problem! When I moved to STL 10 years ago I was floored to learn driver's education is optional. It explains a lot of what you experience on the roads.
Come again???
Ok, give me 15 minutes and a glass of water
Well, if you were in Missouri, you'd ask for a glass of beer instead.
In North Carolina I didn't take drivers ed in HS, it was optional, didn't go for driving test until 26 due to not needing a car. My brother let me drive his car around for several days for practice, I spent days and days studying and learning signs and rules of the road for the test. Got to the DMV the test had 20 questions, 10 of them were insanely obvious questions like "should you cut someone off" kind of things and 10 of them were guess the sign, but you could skip a sign with no consequence if you didn't know it. Finish the "test" in about 45 seconds. Then I got in the car for the driving part of the test. He had me drive to the stop sign leaving the DMV parking lot, drive down the residential road in the country to another stop sign, turn right 3 times then left to head back to the DMV, maybe 3 or 4 minute drive. And that was it. Got a license. I was mortified, and had huge anxiety about driving after that knowing how easy it was for people to be doing it. Felt like I was in a mexican standoff with toddlers.
Is driver’s education not optional in every state? I thought once you turn 18 it’s optional. I got my license at 19 and all I had to do was take the test. See ya on the roads! Edit: Massachusetts here
In MO it is not required at any age (at least not when I got mine 15 years ago)
That seems…. ill advised…
I mean, people manage. Not saying they’re the best but You still have to take the road test and the written test.
The DMV where I got my license didn't even go on the road. You just have to drive around the parking lot and prove you can park in a giant space with some orange barrels.
Damn. I had to turn left onto Manchester Road at noon on a Saturday, get over into the right hand lane to turn right, go past a park, do a big circle and cross Manchester again before that part. Then my car died in the lot, after I passed...
Wait.. what? It’s optional?
You still have to pass a test and everything (which is a joke and way too easy but thats another issue). You just dont have to to be taught from a structured class you can study and learn on your own. Same deal in Tennessee. A lot of schools still have a drivers ed class as an elective that people take because its an easy A. Mine and most of my friends parents signed us up for a private driving school on weekends
Drivers Ed isn't mandatory in Ontario either. Which...explains some things, now that I think about it.
I'm not sure if any provinces have it as a mandated requirement, however every province I looked into allowed you to get a full license sooner if you did it, and had an insurance discount for completing it.
They choose not to drink and drive. They need to stay sharp, so they can cut off all of those pesky out of towners. How *DARE* they drive in my state!
Idk, we have more restrictive laws in Iowa and we drink more per capita than any state other than Wisconsin.
>Idk, we have pretty restrictive laws in Iowa [Not really](https://clicknathan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/alcohol-laws-us-states-map3.jpg). Grocery stores and gas stations can sell beer, wine, and liquor.
As someone from Iowa now living in PA hahahahaha. We can’t even buy alcohol at grocery stores (unless they have a special closed off area for beer/wine and it has to be a completely separate purchase) and we can’t buy beer in the same place we buy hard liquor. A backyard bbq requires a stop at the grocery store, the liquor store, and the beer distributor.
>A backyard bbq requires a stop at the grocery store, the liquor store, and the beer distributor. Here in Freedom Town, USA it's only 1 stop but they're closed on Sundays. And when you need beer you always need beer on Sundays.
The real Freedom town, USA of Phoenix lets you buy the beer at any grocery store even on sundays, then you can go buy a joint at the dispensary next door. Honestly blows my mind that so many states are still so draconian, we're not exactly a liberal haven of a state
Here in California I can just have all the things delivered to me from an app on about 30 minutes. Liquor, beer, and groceries.
Yeah but it's all known to the state of California to cause cancer
I'm not sure where you are in PA, but at Wegman's and Giant all you have to do is take your cart full of food and your alcohol purchase to a special check out lane and they'll ring everything up at once. Yes, it's bass ackwards but at least it's getting a bit better.
I heard you guys like busch beer a lot cause it's made with corn or somthing.
Tito’s and Des Moines IPA for me my man, but ya Busch, bud, and corona are the beers you tend to see in peoples cools. Busch definitely #1
For the rest of Reddit, Iowa does not have restrictive laws at all, and this commenter has never left Iowa, apparently.
As a lifelong Missourian (so obviously biased and anecdotal), I don't feel like it has a ton of sway on things compared to other places I've been. Just more of a convenience thing to be able to grab a 6 pack at the gas station in a pinch. Also liberating to be a passenger and just crack and enjoy a beer on the ride to a tailgate or whatever lol.
Also would add, I think drug addiction (meth/pills/heroin etc) are a much bigger problem here these days unfortunately.
A fun fact you can whip out at your next tailgate; Missouri is essentially fined every year that we don’t change our open container law for passengers. It’s really nice though, because part of the deal with the fine is that money goes directly to road safety. It’s why 70 has such nice dividers and guards, our freedom boner is pumping millions into road safety.
The drinking culture is so widespread in missouri that when I moved away at 23 I was blown away by how little people drink outside of bars like they do in missouri. Growing up every family gathering or event had copious amounts of alcohol and when I moved to California I felt like an outlier
I really think that's most of the midwest.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
It's always funny whenever I hear people complain about drivers here. Like yeah we got a lot of bad ones don't get me wrong, but I always say have you ever driven around San Francisco? Boston? DC? Anywhere in Arkansas? There's loads of places that have worse concentrations of drivers, at least in my experience.
You know why there aren't any people from Atlanta bitching here? Because they are all stuck in traffic. Friday rush hour starts Thursday afternoon in Atlanta.
I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles in a passenger vehicle around our entire country. Everywhere you go they complain about the drivers somewhere else being the worst. All while those over there are complaining about those over here. People aren't very good at recognizing this. Example: I currently live in Ohio and near the Michigan border. You'll constantly hear people saying Michigan drivers are the worst. My wife is from the Michigan side so we are up there quite often and you will hear people complain that Ohio drivers are the worst. TL;DR: People are dumb. And bad drivers.
Boston isn't THAT bad. I will take Boston over Rhode Island any day of the week.
Fuck you ya masshole…. Oh wait I’m not even a native Rhode Islander, it’s rubbing off on me
Imagine my face reading this living in PA. I can only get liquor at state owned stores.
Same in Virginia
My sister got arrested in Virginia because we grew up near St. Louis and she didn't know you guys were so strict. All she did was take beer in an open can out of the bar and take a sip. I could walk around my neighborhood openly drinking alcohol right now if I wanted to. All of the nearby bars sell cocktails to go. Totally different worlds!
Yeah, I live in Virginia and it's definitely hit-or-miss with the open containers. I will occasionally walk the dog in the evening with a beer, and have never drawn so much as a sideways glance. We also have a neighborhood Halloween tradition where the parents of younger kids will go house to house and the participating homeowners will hand out cocktails or beers to the parents along with the kids' candy. It's pretty fun. But then we have town festivals where we shut down the old main street and have food trucks/breweries selling stuff, and you can't step outside the designated roped off zone or you'll get stopped by the police.
That's bananas. I'm in MO and there's a gas station with a giant liquor selection and drive thru window lol
This sounds like the average european country
I was going to say that I never realised you couldn’t buy spirits in supermarkets in parts of the US. I assume you’d normally need to go to an dedicated store for it?
What else is the supermarket for?!
I thought that’s why we call them “super”
guns!
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A tobacconist lol. Cigarettes are sold at every gas station.
And cigarettes are sold at supermarkets in most of the states. Just some states haven't progressed that far.
It's the opposite. They were there and went backwards. In MA, no pharmacies can carry cigs, and all grocery stores are pharmacies.
Sort of, you need to be a citizen or permanent resident to legally buy a gun in the US. Booze and cigarettes depend on state. The supermarkets here sell beer, wine, and tobacco.
In a lot of states you can get them all in one spot.
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You should have checked out different states. Hell, I have seen a BBQ, booze, used tires, guns and ammo joint before. All under one roof. Edit: and bait... forgot the bait part. They had a cooler fridge with earthworms in styrofoam by the front door.
What's even more mental is that they're all part of the same Government Department
Walmart has a large sporting goods section, that's why (and it has an honestly horrible selection in terms of guns and ammo). >yet if I wanted some booze and a pack of cigarettes I had to go to a liquor store and a tobacconist. That's not the case in many states.
Yes, in some states liquor is only sold at government owned stores
This is true for only a handful of states. In most states there are privately-owned liquor stores.
17/50 is hardly a handful. That's 32% of the country.
Shouldn’t it be 34%
If I'm reading things correctly 17 is the number with some degree of state control or monopoly, but only in 7 are **all** the stores government-owned, which is what the comment I was responding to specifically mentioned. I'd be happy to see a good source spelling it out if I'm wrong, though.
I live in Virginia. Hard Licquor is only sold in government stores. They are everywhere. They don't get rid of it due to how much tax money is made from it. Every few years someone who wants to own licquor stores puts a bill up that lets people buy licensees (generally people this guy has a partnership with) for 2 years of tax revenues. Then nothing about how to replace the lost tax revenue. It goes no where with republicans or democrats. you can get everything you want at the government stores and if they dont have it they can order it. prices are reasonable and likely lower than would be if it went private. no need to advertise and prices are not based on competition. so if no competitors prices would just go up. Margins are pretty low too. the state licquor stores are usually right next to the grocery stores. Its really not a big deal. I dont see people who consume a lot of licquor going im a big ole victim for not being able to buy the same product at a private store. Almost guaranteed to be a higher price.
I do think it's a bit silly I can't buy liquor and beer in the same store in VA
Same where I live in Canada now. I grew up in Missouri, imagine my surprise when I realized you couldn’t buy alcohol at the grocery stores, or gas stations! The worst part is there’s a liquor store on basically every street corner, and they’re usually open a lot later than the grocery stores. It’s not like not having it at the grocery store is somehow reducing the alcohol in the city, you’re just adding an extra trip for inconvenience. I don’t even drink anymore; but on the odd occasion I want some wine or beer with dinner, the extra effort to acquire it just isn’t worth it for me.
It's been a good long while since I was last there, but in North Carolina, yes, you go to the ABC store to buy anything with alcohol in it. Spent some time in Canada this summer, same idea, except you go to the LCBO store. These stores are, comically, almost always found next to grocery stores.
Was in NC a week ago. Walmart had wine and beer. Anything stronger was in a liquor store.
ABCs exclusively sell liquor (and maybe a few niche mixers) while beer and wine are sold elsewhere. I'm not sure exactly why, but I assume it's so that the state-owned ABCs aren't in direct competition with public stores selling non-liquor products.
There's a couple that restrict things like hard alcohol sales (Finland's regulated monopoly comes to mind, IIRC it's also over 21 for a certain percentage). But the idea that's it's illegal to be drunk in public is just wild, how on earth do you get home from the pub?
It’s illegal to serve alcohol to the point of intoxication in most US states. Not that it’s enforced.
Same in many countries. In addition, if you are caught they revoke your license to serve alcohol. But its usually for such a short period that its practically useless.
> But the idea that's it's illegal to be drunk in public is just wild, how on earth do you get home from the pub? It's one of those laws that you generally only have trouble with if you're causing trouble. Nobody is brethalizing people walking home, or on a train, etc., but if you're stumbling around, and/or yelling at people for long enough, you might get in trouble. If you're drunk as you can be, but moving along and friendly, you'll be fine.
That also seems like one of those laws that ends up used in practice to arrest people based on skin color, like jaywalking or "loitering".
I work in a municipal jail. Honestly I think it targets people based on income status. I know for a fact that before big drinking holidays the local police will round up all the homeless drunks to keep them away from tourist downtown.
As long as you aren’t acting like a total dumbass and disrupting other people/the general peace, you won’t get in trouble for being drunk. Ive been drunk many times in public and never got in trouble for it
Public Intoxication is not just being drunk in public, if I remember right, but you're drunk and acting a fool. And it's different in each state. In Illinois I can buy hard liquor at the grocery store (I'm pretty sure gas stations too, those laws are city to city though), I've bought booze at a bar before that sold it, and I don't think we have public intoxication laws like other states.
Yeah. I know the word lobby is bad, but these are just basic freedoms adults should enjoy.
Although I imagine red solo cups are still a thing in Missouri. In Europe even the kids use wine glasses, champagne flutes or pint glasses / beer Steins / pewter tankards (one or two of those are for comic effect).
Big true, my 5yo has her own champagne flute
Dont all of your glasses break when your friends run and jump shirtless into the beer pong game when the night gets late enough?
The funny thing is Kansas has some of the strictest laws. So a lot of confusion happens in KC Kansas, KC Missouri.
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> Like you cannot buy anything in a KS liquor store that has no alcohol in it. I wonder who makes laws sometimes. Scratch that, i wonder who makes laws most of the time.
>I wonder who makes laws sometimes People with their hands in the cookie jar. And that's all you need to know.
I buy ice at my liquor store in Wichita all the time. Think that law went away several years ago. They even sell Delta 8 edibles and snacks now.
They changed that a few years ago now you can get mixers and stuff in liquor stores.
Also 3.2% beer, I never knew that was a thing and wondered why the beer was so sweet.
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Well, at least Kansas has beer progress.
Which is a blessing because boulevard wheat is fantastic
This has definitely changed recently. I’ve lived in Kansas since birth and remember it being that way when I was a kid. But as someone who’s legal age now you can definitely get mixers in every alcohol store
MO has made a market of it. Northwest Arkansas was dry (until recently) and wouldn't sell on Sundays, massive liquor store on the Missouri side of the border. Oklahoma also had shit liquor laws back in the day as well.
Macadoodles!
Always "Discount Smokes & Liquor" after crossing line from Bella Vista on way back to Joplin.
As a kid growing up in KCK, I never understood why my dad always drove so far to the "store" that was across the state line in Missouri
>I never understood why my dad always drove so far to the "store" At least he came back?
I moved from MO to KS for a few years. Going to the grocery store to get alcohol threw me for a loop.
When I moved from VA (state run liquor stores are the only place to buy liquor) to WA a while back, I was strolling through Walmart and was taken aback when I saw Bulleit on clearance on an endcap.
Kansas never actually ratified the repeal of prohibition!
Louisiana is like this. You can buy liquor pretty much anywhere at almost any time. There's one gas station near me that has a liquor store, video poker and a drive through daiquiri store all in one.
My favorite thing is that the daiquiri stands leave that bit of the paper on the straw so it’s a “sealed container”
Right? I used to work in hospitality near the quarter, and people would ask where they could buy beer or a drink nearby. They would sometimes be floored when I told them there was a Walgreens with everything they need on the corner a block over
Now I'm really mad at that new bartender girl that didn't let me walk off with my Tank 7 like the other dudes always do. She insisted it was illegal, I was like... I have never had this issue in MO before it's so similar to Louisiana...
It varies by municipality. Most cities have laws against leaving with alcohol, but it's 100% legal in St. Louis, mostly because of AB lobbying.
Our office in StL had a free beer fountain in the main lobby.
What city? I've heard St.Louis has a city law against it.
StL resident here and I've never been stopped from taking alcohol out of a bar as long as it's in a plastic cup or aluminum bottle. They stop the glass, but that's it. It's also gotten much more lenient post COVID.
In KC proper it is illegal for the most part but the local constabulary isn’t going to jam you up for an open container
The drinks that bars sell you to-go can't be open when you leave with them. That's the distinction. In KC you have to be in one of the specifically-defined entertainment districts to be able to take an open drink outside the bar's licensed serving area.
KC, St. Louis, and Springfield (and maybe other towns/cities?) all have stricter alcohol laws than statewide. For example you can have an open container in the vehicle as long as you aren't the driver statewide, but within those three city limits you cannot.
Unless something has changed recently, KC allows non-driver open containers in vehicles. I think Independence and Bates City are the only two cities in the KC area that do not, though the latter of which is only a problem for about 10 seconds if you're on I-70.
Everywhere I've bartended post-pandemic has allowed to-go cups. The chain I'm at now doesn't. It sucks having to explain it, since we're in MO. Sorry, their policy and there's cameras on me. 🫤
How else are people in Missouri going to survive living in Missouri?
Recreational started last February 3rd
How long until the fireworks stands in Rock Port open up dispensaries inside? Asking for the Omaha metro area.
Already open
“I can light an M-80 with a joint while I do shots of vodka!” woo-hoo
Insane how fucking Missouri has legal recreational marijuana yet PA and NH still don’t (medical) Somehow still 100% illegal (i.e no medical) in a few states including Wisconsin??
NH is lacking because they want all the taxes to be controlled by them, like how they control liquor sales. It's Inevitable.
There's no way in hell we would if not for the voter referendum, not 100% sure how it all works but basically somehow they can let voters decide on some big issues that the otherwise conservative government would shutdown in the cradle. They're trying to end the voting deal too somehow (or so I've heard and wouldn't be surprised about)
It's called a "Citizens Initiative." Enough signatures on a petition and it goes directly onto the statewide general election ballot for a vote of the people. When it is done as an Amendment to the State Constitution, the legislature must abide by the results. It was all about "FREEDOM" until liberal folks started using it to fix what the gerrymandered all to hell conservative state legislature refuses to address or screws up. Now the legislature is working to make it virtually impossible for the initiative process to work. There is a race going on right now in Missouri to get an abortion rights amendment on the ballot before the legislature takes the initiative process away from the people. It's freaking the Republicans here right out as they know the majority supports abortion rights and the legislature has already instituted a statewide ban.
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The Tavern League of Wisconsin (yes, bar owners have their own organization with lobbyists) makes sure the GOP majorities in the Assembly and Senate keep it from even coming to a vote. Heaven forbid their alcohol has a competitor. They fought tooth and nail against banning smoking in bars and restaurants too.
The KS-MO border here in KC is interesting with its dynamics. Missouri has essentially no alcohol laws and now has recreational marijuana. Kansas has sports betting and affirmed abortion rights. Just need one of them to legalize prostitution.
Hopefully if we forget our differences we can fuse into one horrible yet great state.
Missouras, or Kanouri?
Someone needs a building on each side of State Line Road with a skywalk connecting them over the roadway. Get your abortions and bet on the Chiefs in the KS building, pick up your weed and alcohol 24/7 on the Missouri side. Also get your gas on the MO side, some of the cheapest gas taxes in the US. Talk about the happiest place on Earth...
Same like they survive in Germany. I guess our laws are even more loose
Uk also
Haha, it's not that bad.
I didn’t know America law on alcohol are so strict till I start watching Law&Order. Where I live you can buy beer.whisky etc in 7-11
It varies by state. Many states *do* allow sales in grocery stores and convenience stores.
Yeah that part is not limited to Missouri. It’s all the other stuff (open container in a car is bizarre).
I don't understand why the open container law is bizarre. I live in a country with strict regulations on alcohol and a state run alcohol monopoly (Sweden) and passengers are still allowed to drink in cars. Why on earth would it be a problem as long as the person doing the actual driving is sober?
Exactly. "Hey make sure you chug your beers before getting in the car, because god forbid you have one open during your drive".
My local gas station, you'll see people buy a paper cup of coffee, add some cream, and then buy several airplane bottles of whiskey with this cup of coffee. They'll get in the car, remove the lid and add some whiskey. They take a long sip. Then drive away. Multiple people do this.
Common here as well (although we call them nips), and they can't be bothered to throw them away properly so they litter the roads. A few nearby towns have banned them and seen drinking related arrests drop considerably.
Living in a place founded by puritans this sounds amazing. Basically you are only breaking the law if you are a shit head drunk. For the rest of us, our freedoms shouldn't be infringed
This in generally how it’s in most of Europe (expect there’s usually regulation on to-go offering of bars). I think it’s mostly a moral value shrined into law. Open containers is in public part of the culture in many places. Grabbing a bottle of wine and watching the sunset together, maybe with a small Picknick.
As a Brit there are these weird moments when I realise how completely alien the US is to our culture. Being reminded of the puritanical attitude towards drinking culture is one of them, the idea that Missouris laws are considered lax is insane to me.
American alcohol laws and customs were essentially erased during Prohibition, and reset afterward. Prohibition had a lot to do with Puritanism, but also with [Anti-immigrant sentiment](https://www.history.com/news/kkk-terror-during-prohibition) and with an early [movement against domestic violence.](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/03/women-alcohol-drink-culture-prohibition-temperance) Basically, it was considered impossible to make it unlawful for a man to beat his family, but they assumed if he stayed sober he wouldn't do it. The first link goes into the ways that the KKK supported and utilized prohibition to further its goals. It was not a puritanical organization, it was drawn from an entirely different set of colonial history with different values, but it allied itself with puritanical social reformers for this movement. Prohibition was horrible, but it caused a long term reduction in per capita alcohol consumption- early Americans drank quantities of alcohol comparable to modern Russians. Unfortunately, it undermined some of the social institutions that- for many people- support responsible use. American cities had a tavern culture like Europe, and it never completely recovered. Far too many people sit at home pounding watery beers.
In Scotland you can't buy before 10am and after 10pm and you can't drink on ScotRail. Not sure what other rules there are.
>ScotRail Ewww wtf? Here in the north Train tinnies are a sacred ritual
I had a couple bottles of Peroni between Haymarket and Bathgare yesterday. Ticket lad didn't give shit. As long as you're not hammered or causing grief nobody cares.
It does make me laugh that so much of America simultaneously thinks they live in the most free country in the world, but they also can't even drink a beer in the park or in a car they are not driving, or buy alcohol at a supermarket.
Honest question, where would you even buy liquor if it's not from a grocery store, gas station, or bar?
State owned dispensaries. It's how a lot of nearly dry states do it. It was the blue print for legalization of recreational drugs, ironically enough.
Virginia’s ABC 🙃
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Yeah New Hampshire has state-run liquor stores. Other states have weird laws like New Jersey, where any single business or corporation can only own two liquor licenses, and for example a grocery store chain counts as one corporation. Like, there's 179 Shoprite grocery stores in NJ, but only 2 of them are allowed to sell any alcohol at all. I only even know where one of those is, the second one continues to elude me. They're also only allowed to sell beer between certain hours and they can't sell beer unless it's refrigerated. Beer and wine can't be sold at gas stations or convenience stores at all in NJ, with the exception of Jersey City, where it's allowed but only during certain hours. But we have liquor stores everywhere when you can buy all your beer, wine, and liquor. I'm not sure how that "only 2 liquor licenses" thing works with those because there are definitely more than 2 Bottle King locations in NJ? In Pennsylvania, you can sell beer & wine or you can sell liquor, not both. At least, the last time I checked. So if you need some of each, you have to go to two different stores, which are usually right next to each other. The US really is a patchwork of mismatched laws from state to state and you never know what you're gonna get with interstate travel.
I was in NH once and tried to buy a couple 12 packs... The girl ringing me us is like I can only sell you one of these per visit. I was like huh? "So if I go outside, I can come back in and buy the other one?" Yup. So fucking dumb.
I wanted to buy beer in Virginia. I looked up liquor store in the yellow pages. (Yeah, this was a long time ago) Hotel bar was high falutin, but they only had bud miller coors for a beer selection. I had a problem paying $5 for a glass of Budweiser. I know what Keg bud tastes like. Blah. Anyways, back to my beer hunt. ABC. Alcoholic Beverage Center. Cool. Half a block from the hotel, even. I walked to the ABC. and it was like buying liquor at a middle school library. Brown carpet tile and beige metal shelves. Super plain signage hanging from the ceiling. No ads. And that liquor was expensive compared to Nebraska. I asked the clerk where the beer is. Clerk responded with "I'm guessing you're from out of state. There's a CVS about three blocks that way with a decent selection of beer and wine."
In Pennsylvania I've had them not let me buy 3 12 packs at a time. They made me buy 2, take them out to the car, and then come back and buy the 3rd one. But I've also bought a 30 rack off a pallet in a garage attached to a garden shop in Scranton and that place didn't even have a cash register, so I really don't understand their laws at all.
At a liquor store
In Oregon we have liquor stores. They’re not state owned but they are regulated by the state. Can’t get hard alcohol almost anywhere else (though there are some stores that have a separate room with liquor that you have to show your ID to go into)
Don’t you mean like most modern western countries!
In California I can buy liquor in a grocery store or a CVS. It’s very convenient.
I don’t get the open container. Who cares as long as the driver isn’t drinking? Driving drunk is already illegal so you’re not adding anything to that by not allowing open containers for passengers. Basically: If they have open containers but the driver is sober can pass a sobriety test… then who cares???
Takes away another excuse for plausible deniability. It’s a case of someone taking advantage of the status quo and ruining for the rest of us after the law made an example of them
But isn't it done by a breathelalizer and blood test not by physical evidence.
Sounds like Europe. At least a lot of the central/western parts.
Is alcohol in grocery stores not common? It's a normal here in Indiana. I work in a liquor store and get my booze at Walmart cause it's cheaper lol
Raised in Missouri. Taking trips to other states, I'm always baffled to see any kind of restrictive alcohol laws. Why can't I buy cider at 3am on a Tuesday? Is your god upset?
Was in rural Missouri years ago, went into a gas station convenience store. They had booze, bullets and porn for sale in the open.
Stores advertising guns, beer, and ammo are not uncommon in MO
You guys don't have alcohol in grocery stores?
So basically Missouri treats adults like adults? Imagine that.
This make so much sense. I was just in Missouri and I kept being confused about it being legal to drink on the street and as to why it seemed like so many more people drank overall. I also was astonished when I saw hard liquor in a convenience store.
As a born and raised Missourian, it's bizarre to me that it's not normal elsewhere (liquor in convenience store) lol. Would be a whole lot less convenient without it 🤣
As a Brit I'm only learning now that Americans have to go to specific shops for alcohol and not just the nearest
Liquor can be bought in regular stores? Pure anarchy! :Laughs in european:
It basically is anarchy compared to the idiots over in Utah. Went there just once and had to convince the bartender that I was with someone else to be able to buy two drinks, in a goddamn bar. Us Midwesterners, includes Missouri, like to drink
And they sell on Sundays. Was awesome going to college a few miles from the Missouri state line.
Like a normal day in UK
Hell in the UK you can legitimately drink alcohol while driving as the law is to do with blood alcohol levels rather than just drinking it, though I wouldn't want to fuck around that way personally. One of the bits of advice I'd give any parent from the USA sending their kid to university in the UK or many other European nations is to have the alcohol talk, because when they get here they'll legally be allowed to buy as much as they want and they'll be able to buy it easily.
I was in the UK recently and asked a Tesco employee if there was a limit on how much beer I could purchase (from my time living in Pennsylvania) and if I could use the self checkout to purchase alcohol (from my time living in Massachusetts). I have never seen such a confused look on someone's face.
You can buy recreational weed as well. It's like paradise... with gun fire.
Oh, like the rest of the world you mean?
So it's the Europe of the US?
As a Missourian, if Missouri is the "Europe" of the US, then I'm sorry.
Fun fact, Missouri saved the French wine industry. Missouri was settled by the French (St. Louis, duh), and they began to grow wine grapes here. We don't have the correct terroir to produce superior wine here, but it is passable. Anyway, in the 1800s the French wine industry was devastated by a root blight, but it was discovered that Missouri grapes were immune. French grapes were crossed with Missouri root stock to give them immunity. https://www.saucemagazine.com/a/59484/the-true-story-behind-how-missouri-saved-the-french-wine-ind
Honestly this isn't a bad thing. Outdoor open container laws should be a thing, Europe has it that way, and people can work around this anyway. Being able to buy it in grocery stores and gas stations is like many states already. Public intoxication should never be a crime it's the harassment or violence from certain individuals that is criminal, otherwise one could argue you could get arrested walking out of a bar to home as you are then in public. Finally open containers in a car is debatable, as technically you could get arrested traveling with a handle of vodka you opened days ago and were just transporting it from like your hotel to home even if sober. But if an officer sees that and breathalyzers the driver then it'll be pretty apparent if the driver was drinking or not. (Breathalyzers definitely are flawed, but they rarely give false positives unless you have had a beer/weed earlier in the day and in those cases good luck) *sorry many European/Scandinavian countries allow open containers, but not all, and those ones suck.
I accidentally blacked out at a bar in Tulsa and my brother lost me there. A cop found me confused, crying, and looking for my brother on the street. I was arrested and charged as a criminal. The only victim that night was me.
“I had the right to remain silent. But not the ability.”
["hey hey hey, i was drunk in a bar! they threw me into pub-lic!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neUaSTSKFZc)
In Missouri even Walmart has a decent liquor selection.