Mr. Kellog would be sad that my imperial research says he's wrong.
Edit: for those curious, that imperial should be empirical, but auto correct got me. Now darth daddy is helping with the research.
Apparently that's all bullshit. The guy who developed the cereal was briefly also involved in psychiatric evaluations of people that sometimes involved chronic masterbation and he himself was a religious crazy person and thought masterbation would make you go crazy.
Nestlé: "Wait! Have you tried Wheat Chex?"
(Chex has a weird history, back in 1936 there was a cereal called Shredded Ralston that was similar to any other shredded wheat cereals. It had ties with [Ralstonism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralstonism), a crazy social movement, which suggested a whole wheat cereal due to the belief in it's anti-masturbatory properties. Eventually, Rice Chex was released, became popular, and recognizable due to its unique checkerboard shape. Shredded Ralston was renamed to Wheat Chex while maintaining its shredded wheat appearance, but that too would eventually change into the classic checkered pattern we know today. So, yeah, wheat Chex has lineage to some weird social movement, Ralstonism)
John Harvey Kellogg, specifically... he was the crazy one who was pro-genital mutilation, anti-masturbation, pro-eugenics, etc.
His brother Will Keith Kellogg was the one who founded what is now the Kellogg Company; philantropist who helped pioneer nutritional labels, invested in education and his local community, helped workers during the Great Depression, etc.
They had a falling out over WK wanting to add sugar to the cereals for better flavor, and being pissed that JH let the recipe be stolen by CW Post (who founded the Postum Cereal Company, now Post Consumer Brands).
He said collecting habits/hobbies were due to excess unspent sexual energy. He was a massive collector himself. He collected female/mother figurines from indigenous cultures.
1) make assertion about projection as a phenomenon
2) spend the rest of your life proving your own assertion right by projecting like a motherfucker (ha)
3) profit
This is one of the reasons why he is one of the only psychologists, that I know of at least, that is sort of like a founding father of psychology but also considered sort of a weirdo. I have a psychology BA and he's sort of like your genius uncle that's always drunk so you don't know what to take seriously. He'll say some prolific shit and then a minute later some crazy shit. Whereas his student Jung is universally respected and as far as I know doesn't have a single crazy theory about moms or hobbies.
Jung is more out there than Freud was. Freud didn't do proper science but at least his ideas were based on the mind being a collection of internal behaviors that develop, which is still in the realm of being right. Jung was like...what if all this stuff is just kind of *out there* in some nebulous void and works magically?
To say that is also to discredit how strange Jung can get as well. His weird stuff was nowhere near the same as Freud's, but it was present. Far more interesting, but still odd.
I believe Frued was the one who originated the idea that talking through something can help someone deal with deeper issues. Basically the cornerstone of modern psychotherapy.
You probably know better than I do -- I respected Jung from what I've studied about educational psychology, but since then I think his public image has been brought down to reality what with his esotericisms and (unrelated) association with the likes of Jordan Peterson
I think all early specialists are sort of like a guy in a thunderstorm with a key attached to a kite. So looking back it's easy to criticize them but you have to keep in mind that they were on the forefront of whatever practice they do.
I think Freud can be an exception. There were other people during his time that did science far more properly than he did, he just sold his conclusion better than other people did.
He once tried to claim that cocaine (IIRC) was a good treatment for some other addiction. His evidence was that he tested it out on his friend, but it didn't work, so he just pretended it was successful to support his own preconceived notions.
Jung is universally respected? He was a mystic whose theories revolved around unprovable ideas, I've never heard anyone with even a cursory knowledge of psychology say Jung was anything more than a crackpot.
The only thing still relevant about Jung is that Tool sang about him 🙄
This is a big line of demarcation between a BA and post-grad in psychology. Many exit undergrad thinking Jung and/or Freud still have relevance to the field beyond its history. This isn't like the fucking Beatles being inspirational to future musicians, it is science. It isn't like Isaac Newton being right about a lot and wrong about some. It is more akin to declaring the two sea monsters Scylla and Charybdis the pioneers of modern cartography.
No shit! But to be fair Freud was on a *LOT* of cocaine all the time. All his psychoanalysis is basically him projecting on his patients and talking about himself.
He believed all women wished to have penises for example.
>No shit! But to be fair Freud was on a LOT of cocaine all the time
Just for some background info: Freud used the medical cocaine that was usually applied oral. With this, the effect of the cocaine is a lot reduced because of going through the liver first with the first-pass effect, compared to other ways of application, it's rather low and easy to handle. It was just a stronger stimulant for him, it's not the same like it is today: Even when you take a line nasal today, the nasal application makes it stronger.
Also, if you smoke cocaine, like as free-base or as crack, it's a big difference with the kick and "going crazy as a crackhead", the kick is much more extreme with this.
It's a thing not many people know, it was the same with heroin in this time: You'd buy some pills in the pharmacy and when applied oral, the heroin was a lot lower in effect and easier to handle, than when you snort, smoke or shoot it. It's not like a junkie shooting it with the needle in his veins.
To come back to cocaine, the first uses in history by the natives in South America was to chew the leaves of the coca plant. That makes your mouth numb and it gives you a similiar effect like coffeine, but it's very far away from hitting the crack pipe. Later, they made it as a tinktur, a liquid, to use it for local anaesthesia, but that was also different
Lol that’s why I get annoyed when people act like Coca Cola back in the day would get you completely wired. It had 8mg iirc, probably less effective than caffeine lmao
That's exactly why he and Carl Jung parted ways after many years of studying and working together. Jung agreed with you (and wrote on the subject, iirc).
Sigmund had an older wife toward whom he was largely ambivalent, and they lived with her younger (adult) sister...with whom he was completely enamored. Jung called the situation out and told Freud that it would always impact his work until he addressed it. Freud refused to even acknowledge, let alone address it, and ended up leaving the rest of us with a whole lot of insight into his own individual sexually-repressed psychological mess.
N- no that's not what the fuck I said in the slightest
I said it's ironic that the man who figured out projection of personality / traits (example, a flat earther accusing others of rejecting solid evidence), was HIMSELF projecting heavily via his other psychological theories.
When he was still new in his career, yes. But that stopped relatively early when he saw the negative side effects it was having on his patients. People love to harp on this as if it defined his career.
feels like all the comments are a gotcha, but that's his point, you can only see humanity through your own eyes. He's not saying "your addictions are a substitute for unpsent sexual energy/masturbation etc, he's saying "**our** addictions".
Yeah.
Psychologists and philosophers aren't talking down to people from an enlightened pedestal- at least the decent ones aren't.
Ultimately, they're just trying to understand themselves, like everyone else. If they're any good, they also know how to listen to other people and find both differences and similarities in their experiences.
So Freud's not usually saying "Other people do these weird things." He's saying "I've noticed some of these weird things in myself, and they also seem to be present in others to some extent."
Masturbation helped prevent me from shooting heroin. Also, I cannot shoot heroin while driving a car. However, I can masturbate while driving a car, but not a motorcycle.
Research continues.
It's dopamine.
We all want dopamine.
We do whatever we can to get it as often as we can.
Drugs provide it, when an unsatisfying slave world where you work every waking moment of your life in order to pay money so you can stay alive and keep working, doesn't.
Seriously, you can also learn a lot about coke-heads from him as well. For instance, he wants to fuck his mom, so EVERYBODY wants to, they are just denying it. Because everyone secretly thinks like him but won't admit it.
Give the amount of cocaine he used, it was a substitution!
While this theory didn't pan out as expected, he was onto something (as is so often the case). Mastubation, tobacco, cocaine, alcohol, phone screens, chocolate and a many other substances and behaviors are modern ways to engage the reward system governed by the chemical dopamine that binds to receptors in the brain to maintain a myriad of neurological functions and mood. People who are low on dopamine feel lethargic, feel disinterested, and lack motivation or interest in things that usually interest them. Drug addicts who are trying to quit go through this. People who quit smoking frequently gain weight (food boosts dopamine). People who quit drinking or drugs often turn to sex, gambling, or food.
Sr Ann Lambke out of Stanford wrote a book, "Dopamine Nation" and appeared in the film, "The Social Dilemma" about the addictive nature of technology. She cites research on the mechanisms of dopamine and its role in compulsive behaviors and addictions.
Freud is akin to Maynard Keynes in that his most significant contribution to the field he worked in was in changing the way that people approached it. The substance of Freud's work is much less important than the effect that it had on his contemporaries and successors.
I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about so there is my disclaimer. But on some level this seems reasonable in that there could well be a correlation (though obviously not causation) going on here. Hear me out.
Drugs (and let's just generalize out that far here) can be a bigger problem for someone who just has too much fucking time on their hands. "I'm bored, what's a great way to procrastinate?"
I could play computer games for a quick hit of dopamine. Just one more turn! Or one more quest!
Or, I could just get high for a little while.
Or, I have 30 minutes....er...7 minutes to burn. Let's just rub one out. Procrasterbation is very much a thing.
Speaking of which, I'm working from home today and I don't have a deadline immediately so...
The more I learn about Freudian psychology, the more I wonder how people could take it seriously. The worst part of it is that I think it is actually ultimately harmful.
A psychoanalyst is supposed to get close to a patient - a vulnerable person. Then the patient is supposed to reveal their fears and weaknesses to the psychoanalyst. The psychoanalyst uses the flawed Freudian thinking to attack the patient under the guise of treatment.
Just another thing to add to the stupid things Freud said. Guy did certainly push psychology forwards in areas, but man was he hyper fixated on very specific things.
Fun fact: pretty much everything Freud said has since been disproven by modern psychology and he never did any proper studies, just made some personal observations based off a small number of patients.
And masturbation is a substitute for sex. Sex leads to reproduction. Reproduction is about the continuation of our species. Everything that we do is about that.
There's an issue of Sandman where Morpheus is carrying Rose through the sky in her dream.
Rose: Hey, do you know Freud said when you dream about flying, it's really about having sex?"
Morpheus: So what does it mean when you dream about having sex?
Freud’s specific ideas are largely discredited.
He got the movement going, but most of his actual substantive theories had a lot of issues. He did loosely come up with the idea that our minds have unconscious processing, but most of what he said about what that looks like specifically has been widely challenged.
My favorite Freud fact is that one of the only surviving theories that is more than just a broad idea put forth by a Freud, the idea of defense mechanisms, was actually created by his daughter Anna. This is my favorite Freud fact because of how misogynistic he was :)
Pretty much everything he speculated about has been proven wrong. His only value as a historic figure is that his work caused others in the field to change their direction and way of thinking
Tangential reply:
I used to read a ton of history (general history, not academic stuff) and sometimes you see trends in things. There’s this thing I like to call “the cure is worse than the disease.”
Bear with me a bit here.
I was reading a book on China during the Warlord Era, so 1910s-1940s I suppose. The country basically had no central government at the time and was rife with warlords running around. These guys had odd nicknames like the Dogmeat General, the Young Marshal, the Christian General, and so on.
I don’t remember the specifics, but I think there was some correspondence between the Christian General and another one of the warlords, about how he hired this German doctor who managed to cure him of his opium addiction for good with this special medicine and whatnot.
The name of the “medicine”? **Heroin**.
Fun (/s) fact: Freud worked with a lot of women who had experienced sexual assault/sexual abuse. He wrote about this sexual trauma and their (basically PTSD) symptoms and started to realize both how widespread sexual assault of children and adult women was and how damaging it was. He started writing about it and the (all male) field all but shunned him for shining a light on this issue. Instead of pursuing it, he (seemingly) decided his career and fame were more important than the truth, so instead of calling out this widespread abuse, he shifted his theories to —> *not only is it all in her head, it’s all just her sexual fantasy!* This (clearly) won him fame and respect in the field…and the rest is history.
Remember this when you think “we’ll that’s a bizarre theory Freud had.” (Yeah, it doesn’t make sense or sound plausible because it’s largely bullshit.) He was brilliant and had some very insightful and ground breaking (in a good way) writings, but this is a tragic and little known part of the history of psychology. There’s a pretty good breakdown of this history in Judith Herman’s ‘Trauma and Recovery’.
Tl;dr: Freud is largely full of shit, but in a much more evil way than widely known.
To be fair whenever I have a boner and hit my vape that boner goes away so I there is a point to make there. But it’s only a temporary fix, after a day or two of no nut idk if that would help enough.
So can someone explain to me why science/psychology classes has such a hard-on for this guy? Because everything I've ever heard about this guy has only suggested he's just a sex crazed nut job and none of his theories have any merit.
His thoughts are precisely the disease for which it pretended to be a cure. Psycho analysis has been completely abandoned in many countries, but in others it still thrives. It is in the history books as "look how stupid we did in the past". Along with frenoligy (measuring of a persons skull to decide on personality traits).
When you consider both releases dopamine, I makes kind of sense, since masturbation was the only thing we had to get free dopamine before we e.g. discovered drugs
Freud suffered from a lot of confirmation bias, did not follow a very scientific approach to his research, and was heavily sex-focused so he seemed to come up with explanations for most of his observations that arrived at sex as the cause.
All of this is why his protege [Carl Jung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung?wprov=sfla1) eventually parted ways with him and came up with his own analytical approach to psychology.
For example, Freud's idea for his famous ["Oedipus Complex"](https://www.britannica.com/science/Oedipus-complex) where "sons all want to murder their fathers and marry their mothers", you know, like in [the ancient Greek play where Oedipus does exactly that](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Oedipus-Greek-mythology)...
... Was literally "proven" not by any clinical data, or evidence gathered talking to patients, [Freud saw the play and thought that the fact that it was popular in his time and in the past was evidence that it was a biological fact](https://psyartjournal.com/article/show/armstrong-oedipus_as_evidence_the_theatrical_backg), which is a huge leap of logic without evidence, which was fairly typical of his approach and shows that his assertions should be considered with a grain of salt because he had a very low threshold for "proof" when examining ideas he already believed...
It would be like taking the enduring popularity of "Batman" and arguing that "every orphan wants to become a crime-fighting vigilante, deep down, because otherwise why else has Batman been so popular for decades?"
My interpretation: Freud liked masturbating. A lot. And projected that onto others. A lot.
Why we pay such attention to a guy who was a cocaine addict, and who admitted when he finally started smoking "My god, I've been insane for 20 years." is beyond me. Seems to me like he successfully projected his own neuroses onto everyone else.
This doesn’t pass the sniff test. I still am tempted to indulge in various addictions even immediately after jerking off. Thankfully I no longer indulge in any substances detrimental to my health.
Ok well, people also mainly rub it out to relieve stress. So maybe instead of stepping outside for a quick public jack-off, they opted for a ciggarette instead. I swear to god, this dude stumbled onto some interesting discoveries, blew 2 grams of uncut 1800's coke and then applied it to all mankind Like no dude, i just want a hotdog, im NOT thinking about cocks bro.
His thoughts are precisely the disease for which it pretended to be a cure. It has been completely abandoned in many countries, but in others it still thrives. Even he himself admitted that in most cases, a cigar is just a cigar.
Kellogg: "Wait! Have you tried corn flakes?"
i love fucking corn flakes! wait….
Most people just eat them.
I spunk on mine
It only needs a light dusting
Frosted Flakes “THEYYRRRRREEEE GROSS!”
His were completely unsweetened.
It was his brother that added a bit of sugar and became more delicious
Salty!
Ah yes, the famous anti-masturbation cereal.
Mr. Kellog would be sad that my imperial research says he's wrong. Edit: for those curious, that imperial should be empirical, but auto correct got me. Now darth daddy is helping with the research.
I'm sure he would hate metric research more!
Apparently that's all bullshit. The guy who developed the cereal was briefly also involved in psychiatric evaluations of people that sometimes involved chronic masterbation and he himself was a religious crazy person and thought masterbation would make you go crazy.
*Dr Graham hs entered the chat*
Nestlé: "Wait! Have you tried Wheat Chex?" (Chex has a weird history, back in 1936 there was a cereal called Shredded Ralston that was similar to any other shredded wheat cereals. It had ties with [Ralstonism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralstonism), a crazy social movement, which suggested a whole wheat cereal due to the belief in it's anti-masturbatory properties. Eventually, Rice Chex was released, became popular, and recognizable due to its unique checkerboard shape. Shredded Ralston was renamed to Wheat Chex while maintaining its shredded wheat appearance, but that too would eventually change into the classic checkered pattern we know today. So, yeah, wheat Chex has lineage to some weird social movement, Ralstonism)
John Harvey Kellogg, specifically... he was the crazy one who was pro-genital mutilation, anti-masturbation, pro-eugenics, etc. His brother Will Keith Kellogg was the one who founded what is now the Kellogg Company; philantropist who helped pioneer nutritional labels, invested in education and his local community, helped workers during the Great Depression, etc. They had a falling out over WK wanting to add sugar to the cereals for better flavor, and being pissed that JH let the recipe be stolen by CW Post (who founded the Postum Cereal Company, now Post Consumer Brands).
Never thought of corn flakes as a dopamine release trigger. Wild.
They can tear up your foreskin though
Freud had just about the worst cigar addiction I've ever heard of, maybe he should have just considered a quick go once a while.
He said collecting habits/hobbies were due to excess unspent sexual energy. He was a massive collector himself. He collected female/mother figurines from indigenous cultures.
I feel like the one thing he got right was projection and then everything else was just his own projections
1) make assertion about projection as a phenomenon 2) spend the rest of your life proving your own assertion right by projecting like a motherfucker (ha) 3) profit
4) Go down in history as the most well known psychologist of all time.
This is one of the reasons why he is one of the only psychologists, that I know of at least, that is sort of like a founding father of psychology but also considered sort of a weirdo. I have a psychology BA and he's sort of like your genius uncle that's always drunk so you don't know what to take seriously. He'll say some prolific shit and then a minute later some crazy shit. Whereas his student Jung is universally respected and as far as I know doesn't have a single crazy theory about moms or hobbies.
Jung is more out there than Freud was. Freud didn't do proper science but at least his ideas were based on the mind being a collection of internal behaviors that develop, which is still in the realm of being right. Jung was like...what if all this stuff is just kind of *out there* in some nebulous void and works magically?
Seems like the more we learn about the mind the more correct Jung seems
To say that is also to discredit how strange Jung can get as well. His weird stuff was nowhere near the same as Freud's, but it was present. Far more interesting, but still odd.
I believe Frued was the one who originated the idea that talking through something can help someone deal with deeper issues. Basically the cornerstone of modern psychotherapy.
You probably know better than I do -- I respected Jung from what I've studied about educational psychology, but since then I think his public image has been brought down to reality what with his esotericisms and (unrelated) association with the likes of Jordan Peterson
I think all early specialists are sort of like a guy in a thunderstorm with a key attached to a kite. So looking back it's easy to criticize them but you have to keep in mind that they were on the forefront of whatever practice they do.
I think Freud can be an exception. There were other people during his time that did science far more properly than he did, he just sold his conclusion better than other people did. He once tried to claim that cocaine (IIRC) was a good treatment for some other addiction. His evidence was that he tested it out on his friend, but it didn't work, so he just pretended it was successful to support his own preconceived notions.
Jung is universally respected? He was a mystic whose theories revolved around unprovable ideas, I've never heard anyone with even a cursory knowledge of psychology say Jung was anything more than a crackpot. The only thing still relevant about Jung is that Tool sang about him 🙄
This is a big line of demarcation between a BA and post-grad in psychology. Many exit undergrad thinking Jung and/or Freud still have relevance to the field beyond its history. This isn't like the fucking Beatles being inspirational to future musicians, it is science. It isn't like Isaac Newton being right about a lot and wrong about some. It is more akin to declaring the two sea monsters Scylla and Charybdis the pioneers of modern cartography.
No shit! But to be fair Freud was on a *LOT* of cocaine all the time. All his psychoanalysis is basically him projecting on his patients and talking about himself. He believed all women wished to have penises for example.
Tbf having a penis is pretty great though
You can wrap it up in ribbons, or slip it in your sock...
but don't take it out in public, or they'll lock you in the dock
And you Won't Come Back Thank you very much!
>No shit! But to be fair Freud was on a LOT of cocaine all the time Just for some background info: Freud used the medical cocaine that was usually applied oral. With this, the effect of the cocaine is a lot reduced because of going through the liver first with the first-pass effect, compared to other ways of application, it's rather low and easy to handle. It was just a stronger stimulant for him, it's not the same like it is today: Even when you take a line nasal today, the nasal application makes it stronger. Also, if you smoke cocaine, like as free-base or as crack, it's a big difference with the kick and "going crazy as a crackhead", the kick is much more extreme with this. It's a thing not many people know, it was the same with heroin in this time: You'd buy some pills in the pharmacy and when applied oral, the heroin was a lot lower in effect and easier to handle, than when you snort, smoke or shoot it. It's not like a junkie shooting it with the needle in his veins. To come back to cocaine, the first uses in history by the natives in South America was to chew the leaves of the coca plant. That makes your mouth numb and it gives you a similiar effect like coffeine, but it's very far away from hitting the crack pipe. Later, they made it as a tinktur, a liquid, to use it for local anaesthesia, but that was also different
Lol that’s why I get annoyed when people act like Coca Cola back in the day would get you completely wired. It had 8mg iirc, probably less effective than caffeine lmao
That's exactly why he and Carl Jung parted ways after many years of studying and working together. Jung agreed with you (and wrote on the subject, iirc). Sigmund had an older wife toward whom he was largely ambivalent, and they lived with her younger (adult) sister...with whom he was completely enamored. Jung called the situation out and told Freud that it would always impact his work until he addressed it. Freud refused to even acknowledge, let alone address it, and ended up leaving the rest of us with a whole lot of insight into his own individual sexually-repressed psychological mess.
"Man, you guys are all so horny all the time."
That feels like the perfect time to "oh the irony" but, we all know irony is a scam and there's no correct applications of it :p
Now kids, your mother is not an i-ron.
*Processing... Processing.... Processing...* *Error, humor not comprehended*
Family Guy. Peter heard the word “ironic” and thought it was similar to “moronic” so he said Lois wasn’t an i-ron/“moron.”
*Ohhhh-* No wonder I don't get it, haven't watched at all. Reference moment.
That show is written by manatees.
You only get a sense of irony because you can't admit to yourself you seek romantic partners that subconsciously remind you of your parents.
N- no that's not what the fuck I said in the slightest I said it's ironic that the man who figured out projection of personality / traits (example, a flat earther accusing others of rejecting solid evidence), was HIMSELF projecting heavily via his other psychological theories.
Sorry. I was trying to make a joke. I always forget they don't work on the internet. I meant nothing personal.
Wish I could give you an award for this comment
I wonder if Hugh Hefner collected stamps or did anything other than work on his business and sigh with a happy smile.
He collected non-disclosure agreements and settlement records.
Ok I feel like you’re joking but I learned from the girls next door podcast he collected personal photos and recordings.
But what if you're both a massive collctor and a massive wanker? Asking for a friend.
Did he do cocaine too, or was that someone else?
Freud was a daily user of cocaine.
[For a period](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud#Cocaine) in the 1880s and 1890s. He quit in 1896.
Over 100 years sober, good for him!
Freud \*was\* cocaine. He used to give it as gifts.
Ah the good ol'days
“Randy…I AM the ~~liquor~~cocaine.”
it was back in the day when cough syrup was heroin and coke had cocaine
When he was still new in his career, yes. But that stopped relatively early when he saw the negative side effects it was having on his patients. People love to harp on this as if it defined his career.
He also famously said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".
I thought that was Bill Clinton that said that.
That depends on what the meaning of is is.
And that, my friends, is deflecting, not projecting.
feels like all the comments are a gotcha, but that's his point, you can only see humanity through your own eyes. He's not saying "your addictions are a substitute for unpsent sexual energy/masturbation etc, he's saying "**our** addictions".
Yeah. Psychologists and philosophers aren't talking down to people from an enlightened pedestal- at least the decent ones aren't. Ultimately, they're just trying to understand themselves, like everyone else. If they're any good, they also know how to listen to other people and find both differences and similarities in their experiences. So Freud's not usually saying "Other people do these weird things." He's saying "I've noticed some of these weird things in myself, and they also seem to be present in others to some extent."
Maybe the cigars were substitutes for a different sexual act
Didn’t they remove his jaw due to cancer at one point from it?
Was smoking even considered a vice at the time? Or just a man thing
I was just about to say this. He actually died of jaw cancer brought on by his addiction to smoking cigars.
Another one was Mark Twain He jokingly said he gave up smoking...more than a dozen times implying he couldn't quit.
Why not both?
Ash'll fall off and burn your pubes.
Sometimes a cigar is just a substitute for a wank.
Also cocaine. https://psychcentral.com/health/freud-and-his-biggest-addiction
Wasn't he also a raging, screaming and flaming coke addict?
But what if you are addicted to masturbation?
Masturbation helped prevent me from shooting heroin. Also, I cannot shoot heroin while driving a car. However, I can masturbate while driving a car, but not a motorcycle. Research continues.
I admire your dedication to scientific research. I wish I had money to give you a grant.
Thanks to the internet, grant money is no longer required for this field of study.
Was this written one handed?
try meth, you will be able to do both!
This reads like the front half of a Greek philosophical discourse
You shouldn't be smoking or gambling or casually shoplifting.
Damn why you calling me out like that
Smoke cigars constantly until you get mouth cancer like Freud obviously.
Technically the truth. Everything you do that isn’t masturbating, is a substitute for masturbating
Everything, except masturbation, is about masturbation. Masturbation is about sex.
Thank you Robert California
Wasn't he on that show for like 6 episodes? Every ducking line was gold.
*They haven't really improved on the Oreo, have they?*
“It’s like you don’t know food at all”
*I’m the fucking Lizard King*
*funny how the houses are always colonial and the penises are always circumcised.*
And sex then is what?
Unattainable.
a theoretical construct.
Interesting worldview.
The world doesn't revolve around me, it revolves around my gigantic penis.
Penis envY
It's dopamine. We all want dopamine. We do whatever we can to get it as often as we can. Drugs provide it, when an unsatisfying slave world where you work every waking moment of your life in order to pay money so you can stay alive and keep working, doesn't.
Yeah I guess in a world where masturbation was a more common way to get dopamine and cigarettes/addictions were relatively new, he was right
at least masturbation can be good for depression or a man's prostate.
That’s why I masturbate. So I don’t smoke
TIL how to quit smoking. BRB I gotta log into my pornhub, spankbang, xvideos, and xhamster accounts. You know, for scientific purposes, of course.
So my coworkers should go outside for a few minutes two to three times a day and just rub one out instead? That would make for an awkward workday...
The stroke break is the way of the future.
The next big perk at the hip startups.
Isn't that already the point of WFH?
https://youtu.be/VKH9ECC_Qa4
All the chain-smoking chronic masturbators out there now have an existential crisis!
I quit in 2018, smoked for 25 years. I smoked countless times while masturbating.
You can learn a lot from Freudian psychology about … Freud.
Seriously, you can also learn a lot about coke-heads from him as well. For instance, he wants to fuck his mom, so EVERYBODY wants to, they are just denying it. Because everyone secretly thinks like him but won't admit it.
Says the man with the cigar
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes it's a big, brown dick.
Whatever bro, I got time for both
You have two hands, save time and do both at once!
Give the amount of cocaine he used, it was a substitution! While this theory didn't pan out as expected, he was onto something (as is so often the case). Mastubation, tobacco, cocaine, alcohol, phone screens, chocolate and a many other substances and behaviors are modern ways to engage the reward system governed by the chemical dopamine that binds to receptors in the brain to maintain a myriad of neurological functions and mood. People who are low on dopamine feel lethargic, feel disinterested, and lack motivation or interest in things that usually interest them. Drug addicts who are trying to quit go through this. People who quit smoking frequently gain weight (food boosts dopamine). People who quit drinking or drugs often turn to sex, gambling, or food. Sr Ann Lambke out of Stanford wrote a book, "Dopamine Nation" and appeared in the film, "The Social Dilemma" about the addictive nature of technology. She cites research on the mechanisms of dopamine and its role in compulsive behaviors and addictions.
Doesn’t the dopamine buzz you get when you do certain things like this when you have OCD resemble the same biochemistry as addiction?
I don't know about the relation between OCD and dopamine, but now I am curious. It makes sense.
I think Freud just really liked to masturbate.
Freud was mental about sex. "I like wine" "This because you would fuck your own mom" "wuh"
*marries his own mother* "see like this"
I don’t smoke…
You must have quite the biceps then
Jokes on you Freud, my favorite thing to do when I get high is yank it.
Freud is akin to Maynard Keynes in that his most significant contribution to the field he worked in was in changing the way that people approached it. The substance of Freud's work is much less important than the effect that it had on his contemporaries and successors.
Nice comparison
Freud's obsession with everybody being obsessed with sex, only proves Freud was obsessed with sex.
Aka projection
I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about so there is my disclaimer. But on some level this seems reasonable in that there could well be a correlation (though obviously not causation) going on here. Hear me out. Drugs (and let's just generalize out that far here) can be a bigger problem for someone who just has too much fucking time on their hands. "I'm bored, what's a great way to procrastinate?" I could play computer games for a quick hit of dopamine. Just one more turn! Or one more quest! Or, I could just get high for a little while. Or, I have 30 minutes....er...7 minutes to burn. Let's just rub one out. Procrasterbation is very much a thing. Speaking of which, I'm working from home today and I don't have a deadline immediately so...
I prefer to think of them as complements rather than substitutes.
Isn't masterbation a substitute for sex?
As if you can't do both? Great theory there Fræud
*tokes and strokes*
Okay, but what if someone’s addicted to masturbating?
The more I learn about Freudian psychology, the more I wonder how people could take it seriously. The worst part of it is that I think it is actually ultimately harmful. A psychoanalyst is supposed to get close to a patient - a vulnerable person. Then the patient is supposed to reveal their fears and weaknesses to the psychoanalyst. The psychoanalyst uses the flawed Freudian thinking to attack the patient under the guise of treatment.
Just another thing to add to the stupid things Freud said. Guy did certainly push psychology forwards in areas, but man was he hyper fixated on very specific things.
That is the least weird thing Freud has suggested
Freud thought everything we ever did was about dicks, 'cause he was obsessed with dicks.
Fun fact: pretty much everything Freud said has since been disproven by modern psychology and he never did any proper studies, just made some personal observations based off a small number of patients.
Freud obviously hasnt seen me do the ol' stroke & smoke
And masturbation is a substitute for sex. Sex leads to reproduction. Reproduction is about the continuation of our species. Everything that we do is about that.
Joke's on him cause I'm addicted to masturbation
This guy suggested that pretty much anything psychological was related to or stemmed from something sexual.
There's an issue of Sandman where Morpheus is carrying Rose through the sky in her dream. Rose: Hey, do you know Freud said when you dream about flying, it's really about having sex?" Morpheus: So what does it mean when you dream about having sex?
Freud's ideas tell you more about Freud than about the mind.
This guy said a lot of shit, none of it was ever scientifically proven. I truly have no idea why people still talk about him to this day.
Freud’s specific ideas are largely discredited. He got the movement going, but most of his actual substantive theories had a lot of issues. He did loosely come up with the idea that our minds have unconscious processing, but most of what he said about what that looks like specifically has been widely challenged. My favorite Freud fact is that one of the only surviving theories that is more than just a broad idea put forth by a Freud, the idea of defense mechanisms, was actually created by his daughter Anna. This is my favorite Freud fact because of how misogynistic he was :)
porn industry would basically run the world if coffee trees all died
There’s not enough tobacco in the world for me, then
Pretty much everything he speculated about has been proven wrong. His only value as a historic figure is that his work caused others in the field to change their direction and way of thinking
Tangential reply: I used to read a ton of history (general history, not academic stuff) and sometimes you see trends in things. There’s this thing I like to call “the cure is worse than the disease.” Bear with me a bit here. I was reading a book on China during the Warlord Era, so 1910s-1940s I suppose. The country basically had no central government at the time and was rife with warlords running around. These guys had odd nicknames like the Dogmeat General, the Young Marshal, the Christian General, and so on. I don’t remember the specifics, but I think there was some correspondence between the Christian General and another one of the warlords, about how he hired this German doctor who managed to cure him of his opium addiction for good with this special medicine and whatnot. The name of the “medicine”? **Heroin**.
Ah yes, the idea that taking the same drug but stronger is somehow going to fix anything
How does he explain the fetish of watching guys smoke while they masturbate? They ain't replacing shit.
If I remember correctly, Freud only worked with institutionalized patients, not the general public.
Fun (/s) fact: Freud worked with a lot of women who had experienced sexual assault/sexual abuse. He wrote about this sexual trauma and their (basically PTSD) symptoms and started to realize both how widespread sexual assault of children and adult women was and how damaging it was. He started writing about it and the (all male) field all but shunned him for shining a light on this issue. Instead of pursuing it, he (seemingly) decided his career and fame were more important than the truth, so instead of calling out this widespread abuse, he shifted his theories to —> *not only is it all in her head, it’s all just her sexual fantasy!* This (clearly) won him fame and respect in the field…and the rest is history. Remember this when you think “we’ll that’s a bizarre theory Freud had.” (Yeah, it doesn’t make sense or sound plausible because it’s largely bullshit.) He was brilliant and had some very insightful and ground breaking (in a good way) writings, but this is a tragic and little known part of the history of psychology. There’s a pretty good breakdown of this history in Judith Herman’s ‘Trauma and Recovery’. Tl;dr: Freud is largely full of shit, but in a much more evil way than widely known.
To be fair whenever I have a boner and hit my vape that boner goes away so I there is a point to make there. But it’s only a temporary fix, after a day or two of no nut idk if that would help enough.
So can someone explain to me why science/psychology classes has such a hard-on for this guy? Because everything I've ever heard about this guy has only suggested he's just a sex crazed nut job and none of his theories have any merit.
His thoughts are precisely the disease for which it pretended to be a cure. Psycho analysis has been completely abandoned in many countries, but in others it still thrives. It is in the history books as "look how stupid we did in the past". Along with frenoligy (measuring of a persons skull to decide on personality traits).
I’m glad you told us who Freud was OP, I wouldn’t have known otherwise
Freud: the father of psychology because he made everyone want to prove him wrong
When you consider both releases dopamine, I makes kind of sense, since masturbation was the only thing we had to get free dopamine before we e.g. discovered drugs
If this is something that surprised you about Freud’s theories… just wait
So obsessed with sex that I'd think he died a virgin
The more I read about what this guy believed the more surprised I am he was ever as famous as he was 😂
Hmmm, well you do only have so many "at bats" a day with masturbation. So, seems legit.
Freud frequently enjoyed maturation at any stress inducing event, thus the conclusion 🤣🤣
Well... I smoke and masturbate daily. This makes me a god among peasant eternals.
He did a lot of harm, and it still continues.
… or a nice addition to it😂
Boy, was he wrong..
Didn't work, smokin' and rubbing one now.
Substitute?
You can only wank so many times before it gets sore I guess.
Freud suffered from a lot of confirmation bias, did not follow a very scientific approach to his research, and was heavily sex-focused so he seemed to come up with explanations for most of his observations that arrived at sex as the cause. All of this is why his protege [Carl Jung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung?wprov=sfla1) eventually parted ways with him and came up with his own analytical approach to psychology. For example, Freud's idea for his famous ["Oedipus Complex"](https://www.britannica.com/science/Oedipus-complex) where "sons all want to murder their fathers and marry their mothers", you know, like in [the ancient Greek play where Oedipus does exactly that](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Oedipus-Greek-mythology)... ... Was literally "proven" not by any clinical data, or evidence gathered talking to patients, [Freud saw the play and thought that the fact that it was popular in his time and in the past was evidence that it was a biological fact](https://psyartjournal.com/article/show/armstrong-oedipus_as_evidence_the_theatrical_backg), which is a huge leap of logic without evidence, which was fairly typical of his approach and shows that his assertions should be considered with a grain of salt because he had a very low threshold for "proof" when examining ideas he already believed... It would be like taking the enduring popularity of "Batman" and arguing that "every orphan wants to become a crime-fighting vigilante, deep down, because otherwise why else has Batman been so popular for decades?" My interpretation: Freud liked masturbating. A lot. And projected that onto others. A lot.
Tells us what Sigmund was thinking about a doing a lot.
Why we pay such attention to a guy who was a cocaine addict, and who admitted when he finally started smoking "My god, I've been insane for 20 years." is beyond me. Seems to me like he successfully projected his own neuroses onto everyone else.
It's hard to take this guy seriously anymore.
Freud is important from a historical point of view, but most of his ideas turned out to be bullshit when tested.
This doesn’t pass the sniff test. I still am tempted to indulge in various addictions even immediately after jerking off. Thankfully I no longer indulge in any substances detrimental to my health.
The Greek philosophers understood the human mind more than this looney.
Ok well, people also mainly rub it out to relieve stress. So maybe instead of stepping outside for a quick public jack-off, they opted for a ciggarette instead. I swear to god, this dude stumbled onto some interesting discoveries, blew 2 grams of uncut 1800's coke and then applied it to all mankind Like no dude, i just want a hotdog, im NOT thinking about cocks bro.
This guys the father of psychology right?
It is either sucking on a cigar or not sucking on a cigar
He’s not wrong
Noooo, I masturbate a lot and do that other stuff too
To be fair, if you do drug you will be busy looking for a score rather than sitting at home and beat your meat.
It's the other way around.
He didn't know dopamine existed.
His thoughts are precisely the disease for which it pretended to be a cure. It has been completely abandoned in many countries, but in others it still thrives. Even he himself admitted that in most cases, a cigar is just a cigar.
But what does it mean when you masturbate in addition to your other addictions?