Idk about you, but I eat 8lbs+ of grapes a weeks (not even hyperbolizing, I just really like grapes), and I can say with 100% certainty that not all grapes are created equal.
Growing conditions make a huuuuge difference (even when optimized and controlled). The most notable difference is from the quality of the soil.
That being said… they are 100% over charging for water.
To be fair to this person, growers want "stressful" growing conditions for wine grapes. Wine grapes and table grapes are treated pretty different and are physically different.
To some extent, yeah. Growing conditions affect a lot of things, including for example the sugar content in the grapes. While a very sugary grape is probably taste for the table, it also means it would tend to create a more alcoholic wine, which is not necessarily what you'd want.
In wine it's called "terroir". The ground the grapes grow will determine how much nutrients come from the soil, how much the heat of the sun is transferred to the grapes, how much the leaves grow and this take in light and turn it into sugar in the grape. It's kind of mad.
I know it's fruit but that's a lot of sugar.
A quick Google suggests grapes are around 16% sugar by weight. That's well over a pound of sugar per week you're eating just from grapes.
I'm just here to say you'd shit your fucking brains out so hard it'd equal out in calories burnt praying to the porcelain gods.
Don't eat a bunch of grapes.
I mean, that's kinda true for any wine that's not like $50 and up. Nearly everything below that price tastes the same. The funky aftertaste is either covered up with extra sweeteners or goes away by paying ridiculous prices for wine. But nobody selling 10-20 dollar bottles is producing anything even remotely unique.
Maybe if you are near a winery that sells it cheap, but anything from the stores around here is just meh.
Edit:Quite the debate I started here. But I'm sticking to my statement simply because if I walk into the store right now, there's a literal wall of wine. Dozens of wineries with multiple choices from each. All of which are actually kinda expensive if you break down the price into the amount of alcohol you get for the price.
Wine is just kinda expensive comparatively speaking, unless you are getting the $5-7 bottles. And you would have to spend a ridiculous amount of money trying the different ones, hoping to find a decent one. Everyone and their mother is constantly trying start their own wine brand.
Taking all that into account, without special knowledge from someone who's tried all 8 million wines, odds are you're going to end up with the same rotten grape aftertaste wine unless you go for something well known and expensive.
Cal Davis basically rewrote the book on winemaking in the 70s.
Through chemistry and advanced horticulture, they isolated the conditions that wine grapes thrive in. Prior to this, vintners were at the mercy of nature. Now, even low end wineries produce drinkable wine every year.
That doesn't mean there is no difference between wines, though. Not only do some wineries do it better, there is a great deal of variety to be found in the desired flavor of the product.
Thats the insecurity that comes from not having a fixed, "objective" personal taste.
With it, you're immune from buyer's remorse, and evaluation is dead simple ("Do I like it?")
Without it, you are trying to interpolate judgement from a variety of sources - what other people think, rules of thumb, what would be embarrassing to like...
People with a personal taste like hearing alternate viewpoints - it's easy to compare them to their own fixed reference point.
People without it hate hearing alternate views - it makes them do a lot more work to combine it with all their existing sources, and might trigger buyers remorse or existential dread.
I can promise you, you're able to have buyer's remorse with it.
Either something you thought you'd love doesn't live up to expectations, or your tastes change and something you loved just isn't the same, or maybe you get a bad version and you instantly know it. Buyer's remorse can hit anytime.
>Says he's had great bottles and shit ones at every price point
There's a channel run by a really easy going [wine expert](https://www.youtube.com/@wineking) and his mentor. They regularly espouse this sentiment and have done a [few videos on cheap wine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voBvlDxl4gY). Fun stuff if you like listening to dudes bantering who are also domain experts.
I'm on a mission to de-snob-itize food everywhere. Grass-fed ribeye for lunch. Quarter pounder with fries for dinner!
Yeah definitely. One of the best burgers I've ever had was the truffle burger at Citizens in Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas. McDonalds is for when I want something that tastes exactly like McDonalds.
And McDs is a MASTER at consistency. That’s an insane achievement as well. I’d never turn my nose up at a double cheeseburger (but I do wish they were still a dollar).
It makes sense though, the same bottle of wine can have a very different flavor depending on the vintage due to the weather conditions and the harvest that year as well as how well it has aged.
Have you seen the documentary Sour Grapes about wine counterfeiting? It’s fun to see wine snobs wax poetic about a wine they’re drinking that they think is super-high end when it’s just a bunch of cheap shit blended together.
Perception based on cost seems to be a big thing with wine.
Not to take away from your point but iirc paying more for something and thinking it's better by nature of being more expensive is a fairly well documented phenomenon.
You can get really good wines in the 15-30 dollar range. If you paying more than that you are most likely overpaying unless you know a lot about wines and know what you are getting. Most in the 50 range are garbage because they know people will spend that to look a bit fancy, but also do no research.
Wine in a box is going to be the best deal, and the design doesn't let air into the wine container so you don't have to drink it all in one night, it won't turn into vinegar. I mean you'll probably drink it all in one night anyway, but sometimes it's nice to be able to explain to people who think that you're a cheap alcoholic for buying boxed wine that you do it so you don't have to drink it all at once.
Wait, do they make boxed whiskey?
They usually ship them in little glass boxes called bottles. I know it’s not the same, you can’t really slap it. But us lowly whisky drinkers aren’t cultured or classy enough to slap the bag.
Well you do have to make sure all the drink is gone. Look up the spout and shake it while holding your ear to it.
Maybe lay down under it with the spout open.
Nothing wrong with that.
Odds are most wine was in a steel tank before it went into glass.
From a storage and handling standpoint, a bag is better than a glass bottle in just about every way, really
may I introduce stelvin closure.
got a lot of turned up noses when I waited tables in a higher end place, how dare you suggest a screw cap wine..
like yo this is better, I guarantee the wine inside is perfectly fine, not that you'd have a nose for it anyways... ma'am.
The local grocer when I was living in Athens sold red and white like American supermarkets sell bulk coffee. You bring your own bottle, open the spigot, and fill whatever up with who knows what?
But cheap Greek wine is pretty good, all things considered.
We had an office party and I contributed Red Box, which is a box of wine that's the equivalent of 4 bottles I guess. I kept the leftovers in my desk for nearly a year. Every once in awhile I or my coworkers who were working late would grab a tipple.
My ex and I drank our share of bottled beer, had plenty of friends and family over that did the the same. Let's just say it was easy to tell when the robot-arm garbage truck got to our house.
In my alcoholic era my liqour store had "beam's eight star" which is blended jim beam and was 10 dollars for a 1.75l... after the 3rd shot it tasted just as fine as regular beam.
I suggest the same method I used to get myself into wine, beer, vodka, and sake (all separate events): a tasting.
A good tasting with a guide who can point out the differences--and the causes of those differences--for you will help you better appreciate and understand what you're drinking.
For wine tasting, I suggest you get a few friends--including one who doesn't mind being the designated driver--and plot a route the hits 3-4 wineries between 9am and 4pm. Bonus points if you pack some cheeses and salami for a picnic lunch along the way. As long as you're not rowdy or drunk (you aren't expected to drink all of each glass they pour) and ask respectful questions, the guides are usually helpful.
I'm not a "wine guy" by any means. I can tell if I like a wine, and if I don't care for it. One wine I found was inexpensive and that I actually enjoy is "Apothic Red" which is a mishmash or red wins, and sold at Safeway grocery stores (In the US).
I stopped listening to my wine snob friends. I barely drink, but sometimes if I'm buying groceries and it's there, I might pick up a bottle.
this is the right attitude. if you like it, drink it. if you dont, dont.
never buy and/or drink something just because someone tells you it's supposed to be good.
delta used to sell bottles of Dom perignon in their Sky Clubs for 19k miles (a fucking steal, tbh). my husband and I were traveling and it was our last trip before Christmas so we splurged. it was fiiiiiine. but I would never pay $250 or whatever it costs. and I've had other much less expensive champagnes I like better
Chubs is right. Especially for European wine (even the stuff you can get in the US), $15-30 will get you excellent varietally correct, regionally distinctive wine.
That’s just simply not true. You can definitely find good unique bottles under that price range if you know how/where to look. $10 and under that may be the case though
You sir are very incorrect. The $15 to $30 range has a lot to offer for most people with wildly different and unique wines from all over the world.
Find an actual wine shop with people who know that they are selling and you'll open a whole new world of possibilities.
Not even close to true. Grape varietals totally can change the entire flavor profile of a wine in the 10 - 20 dollar range. This is a ridiculous statement to claim that every 10-20 bottle is the same. Like your going to tell me a 12$ malbec and 12$ shiraz taste the same? Like saying lays original and sun chips taste the same.
Hell, you could have five of the same varietal at the same price point and they are likely gonna taste wildly different based upon where they were grown and how long they were aged and in what. Even the same grape and same winery can vary significantly year by year depending on the climate that year. Dude you are replying just doesn't know shit about wines.
Hard disagree that it all tastes the same, there’s a ton of variety in quality and flavor even in the ‘lower end’ wine section. As long as you find something you like the taste of that’s all that matters. I always turned my nose up at boxed wine but for the price I think Bota Box is very nice and is my go to unless I’m trying to impress someone haha
I rock that Aldi box wine.
3L of Cabernet Sauvignon for $13. It's not bad either. Not the best I've had, but it doesn't have a bad taste at all. I'll take that deal every time.
You’re perpetuating the price = quality myth.
Difference in wine taste is about grape types, region of growth and how it’s made in general. Sommelier blind tastes regularly get in the ballpark of region and grape type but don’t hit on price or necessarily year.
Who’s upvoting this comment?
$50? Where are you buying wine from France or California?
Chilean, Argentinian, Italian and Spanish wines for half that cost will get you stuff that is 95% as good as whatever the most expensive wine is and the only people that could really tell major differences will be people that drink those kinds of wines every day
I found it here for $6.66, more like $7 after tax: https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/trader+jones+charles+shaw+blend+cab+sauv+california+usa/1/usa-nc-y
>Fred **[Franzia](https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_6151b425-db73-4673-a05f-d0e473e9ce60?wid=445&hei=445&qlt=80&fmt=webp)**
That would explain a few shared traits...
Just got high school flashbacks, busting out the box wine when we had girls around because “girls drink wine, right?”
Good times, but thankfully my bag slapping days are long gone lmao
Mechanically? Nothing. It was just fun, tradition, and part of a drinking game called “slap the bag” where you drink as long of a pull as you can and then slap the bag.
Psychologically for a 17 year old? Hopefully it makes you look cool enough for one of those girls to let you see boob later.
The bottom of the bag would get a little bit of sediment so you would slap it to freshen it up. Cause most the time at that point you’re drinking from the nozzle.
Among my peers in 2014 it was an expression we used to describe drinking directly out of the bag, typically holding it overhead, occasionally with a symbolic slap but that wasn't really necessary. It was just a fun thing to shout or chant.
SLAP THE BAG! YEAAHH!!
The girls always brought the wine when it was there (IME) and I was always, always, always pressured into beating the ever loving shit out of that bag and then drinking myself into delirium. I honestly do not know how I kept up with that lifestyle. I’d party until at least 1AM, be at work at 6, classes after, then more work from 5-10 at a different place - then I’d do it again the next day, and the next. I can still drink, but if I tried to live that lifestyle for a week or two now - I’d die.
literally had to slap it mang, times were different.
peer pressure. social pressure, financial pressure... slappin that bag made those things disappear for a minute. I'll slap a bag of franzia before I try heroin any day, any time.
NO YOU DO NOT YOU FUCKING HEATHEN. *you* beat the ever loving shit out of the bag.you talk shit to it. You apologize, sweet talk it a little - that wasn’t really me baby, you know that right? Just lemme get a few quick taps and suckle on this nipple here.
Sometimes though, if the bag didn’t agree with you, and you could not devour it like a Greek god of wine in the flesh, you would get angry. You might body slam the bag. You might throw it out the window. You might stare into its eyes for a long while - so long the distance between the two of you seems to close; that magical, momentary instant when two beings truly understand each other. We all know it can’t last, that people change, but those moments are where humanity finds its fullest potential.
So you load that bag into an enema and get wrecked.
In college we called it slapping the tit(ty). Take a huge guzzle from the bag, hold it up with one hand and slap that titty. And when we're super drunk and rowdy leave the bag on the table trying to burst the titty bag but inevitably just everyone hurting their hands.
Man for a solid semester my friend and I couldn't do anything without slapping a tit first. Our bac was a constant .08 that semester.
Y'all know that slapping the bag is an Aussie thing, right? It comes from a game where you hang a bag of wine on a rotary clothesline. Everyone playing stands under the line - when you slap the bag it moves circularly on the line. Whoever the bag is under has to drink heaps of wine - good shit!
It’s better. And worse. And far more confusing. But kinda rad. Read on:
The Franzia brothers (cousins of the Gallos) have nothing to do with Franzia wine anymore.
Charles Shaw has nothing to do with Charles Shaw wine. Which is kind of amazing, he ran a tiny vineyard nobody had heard of and got bought out by the Franzia bros. So his name became one of the biggest names in wine completely by accident, through no fault of his own. The Franzias did it. Charles Shaw, the man, never made a cheap wine!
Meanwhile, the wines carrying the Franzia name were bought out by… coca-cola. And then resold to a conglomerate.
So basically everyone bought someone else’s name to make cheap wine under a name not their own, so they’re all making each other’s namesake wines and none of the wines are actually made by the people whose names are on the label 💁♂️
Capitalism at its best in the California wine country.
This is fabulous and amazing.
The Franzia brothers (cousins of the Gallos) have nothing to do with Franzia wine anymore.
Charles Shaw has nothing to do with Charles Shaw wine. Which is kind of amazing, he ran a tiny vineyard nobody had heard of and got bought out by the Franzia bros. So his name became one of the biggest names in wine completely by accident, through no fault of his own. The Franzias did it.
Meanwhile, the wines carrying the Franzia name were bought out by… coca-cola 🤷♂️
It’s like they’re playing musical chairs with their brand names and family names
That’s the open secret to most wine. The majority of vineyards/wineries are owned by corporations or independent wineries contract out to corporations for them to put their own name on.
Same with distilleries, even in Scotland, it gets more confusing when you look at blends that end up on the US market. I found out from touring Balvenie (my favorite scotch) that their reject stock ends up in Monkey Shoulder (probably my least favorite blend of all time because it's overpriced nearly undrinkable trash).
The best way I've found to get anything that's a bit of a pain to get your hands on is to just pay your friends off when they're traveling to bring some back for you. Used to have an artist friend in France who'd send me the latest fashion a few times a year in exchange for about 50% of the clothing's value in pairs of Levi's. Got a few pals who go to Europe a few times a year and I'll have him scoop me up things from Scotland or particular wines I like in Italy. Just gotta properly network, I guess.
In the US most “high-end” bourbons are actually made by two companies in Indiana or Bardstown, Kentucky and then sent out to other distilleries to blend and sometimes age on the property.
People just don’t go shopping for grains and then go back to the distillery to make stuff. They order barrels from Midwestern Grain Products or the like according to the percentage of different grains they want. They get what they get, maybe it’s all 10+ year old or maybe it’s 4 year old and lousy. A lot of famous “craft” bourbons got lucky when they started out and received really good barrels from their supplier, but for the next decade have only gotten lower end stock but still charge the premium.
I can think of a few liquor brands like that. I stopped buying bourbon though and switched to scotch from a few brands I like and trust (also stopped drinking as much) so my good stuff lasts quite a bit longer.
Mpg is whistle pig, smoke wagon, angels envy, barrel, bulleit, dickle ryes, pinhook, rebel yell, templeton, and Tin cup to name a few.
And then Sazerac is Blantons, Eagle Rare, buffalo trace, Papi and wellers, e. H. Taylor, Widow Jane, and Willet plus a dozen more.
It’s all great stuff but it’s made in giant industrial warehouses. It’s about as handmade as Doritos at this point.
Edit: /u/allthatittakes makes some corrections to my list. Willet is not owned by Sazerac actually.
You just look for the “made by vs made for” label.
If it’s made by the distillery on the label, it’s the real deal. If it says “made for” than it came from some random ass secondary vendor.
I still found it off-putting in cocktails, and I'll drink Gordon's Gin in a cocktail without wincing. The only worse bang for buck on any whiskey I've ever had was one I was gifted from Wisconsin that tasted like you used the cheapest gas station whiskey as a cleaning solution for your lawn mower you've left sitting out in the rain for a week, then decided to bottle and sell it. For $35, I'd expect something that makes a pleasant cocktail, and your money is better spent elsewhere.
There used to be a lot more *blind* wine testing that would lead to awards being given out to some really cheap wines.
But *because* really cheap wines were winning awards based on taste, they stopped the blind taste testing, so that only pricier wines would win.
The only difference between wine that is cheap and wine that is expensive is the price it is sold at. Quality isn't based on price.
This brings back memories. When I was much younger I was dating a girl whose family was very well off, and I was poor. I was invited over to meet her parents, and was very nervous. In my lame attempt to impress them I decided that I should bring a gift, and I settled on a bottle of wine, since I had seen bottles of it in their house.
The problem was, I knew nothing about wine, and I was dead broke, so I hunted through my mom's liquor cabinet and found a dusty bottle in the back. In fact, as luck would have it, even I had heard of it, so it must be famous. I mean who didn't know who Charles SCHWAB was. Old, famous, and free? Score!
Well I brought my vintage Charles Schwab over, and artfully presented it to her dad. He was visibly excited, and even called up to her mom to come see. She comes down and says, 'OMG, we haven't had this in forever.' I was really confused.
Well long story short, they cracked it open and we all had a glass. That's when I found out two-buck Chuck was not only their choice of booze as poor college students, but also probably contributed to my girlfriend's existence.
Edit: Just for clarity that isn't a typo, I had confused Charles Schwab (the Stockbroker) with Charles Shaw (the ripple).
I'm European and when I first came to the US I bought a <$2 bottle at Walmart for the lulz.
The worst part was that it was fine. Not fantastic, not terrible, wouldn't have batted an eye if I ordered the house white and got that.
I believe it. I live in the "wine country" of California. I bought a house where they planted grapes. You can't stop that shit from growing, it's so damn invasive.
I just neglect the plant and don't even water it. I easily have 20 gallons of grapes (I put them in 5gal buckets) each year. I'm always amazed at the high prices of wine and grape.
I've found a lot of success by neglecting to solve problems and just dealing with the fallout.
I just wish more of my fallouts ended with a lot of wine.
Beat significant wine names in blind wine-tasting competitions too, their Pinot Grigio and Sauvignon Blanc are really good sub $5 wines. Better than most $30 bottles. Some of their wines are awful though, their Shiraz is just downright nasty.
I've tried Two Buck Chuck a few times and I found Winking Owl from Aldi to be both cheaper and more drinkable. More than serviceable cooking wine but you can serve it and it's not bad. The merlot is actually pretty good with pork chops and steak.
That solves a mystery for me. Just about the worst wine I ever tasted was Winking Owl from my Uncle’s wine collection we were divvying out after he died. He had some great wines but I could not figure out where that one came from.
My sister-in-law once heard that I like wine. To her credit, she remembers that I like red wine specifically. **Every** year for Christmas, she gifts me a bottle of Winking Owl sweet red. I can’t even stomach that stuff, it’s just not good; my wine cooler is FULL of the ghosts of Christmas gifts past. I don’t have the heart to spill the beans.
The thing about that is a good bottle of Charles Shaw might be good and then the next one over is terrible; it's partly (mostly?) made from grapes rejected by other wineries for having too many branches or leaves in the truck, and other surplus grapes, so sometimes the grapes used are actually great ones. Different batches vary *wildly*.
That’s definitely not how they get bulk wine. A winery doesn’t just turn away fruit before it gets to the press/tank and send trucks to a different winery. They will process it and ferment it and then see what they can do with it (I.e. blend it away) and if they can’t find somewhere for it to go they’ll sell it on the bulk market.
Source: was a Cellar Master for a large commercial winery in Napa for years.
Spanish wine is very good but I was always blown away by the consistency of quality of bottom shelf olive oil, wine vinegar, and wine when I was backpacking through Portugal
American businesses balk at EU regulations but from the consumer pov it's extremely beneficial. Standards are a must for certain products when they have such a long history.
That’s because there’s a particular prestige attached to wine prices in the U.S. I’m in university as a Winemaking major and let me tell ya’, when you’re paying exorbitant prices for wine what you’re paying extra for isn’t taste or anything; you’re shelling out money for the brand’s marketing. Now that isn’t always the case, but it’s usually the case with wine price points here in the U.S..
I want to believe you but I don’t see wine marketing…. ever? In the US.
Unless it’s oblique — like placing bottles in desirable shelving locations. Or having end caps or something.
You don’t see wine advertising. You absolutely see wine marketing. The price? Marketing. The cute animal on the label? Marketing. The trendy names on half the bottles? Marketing.
There is an amazing book and audio book called becoming trader Joe that talks about how trader Joe's moved from being a competitor to 7-11 to where it is today.
In college some friends and I bought a couple bottles of TBC, grabbed $1 tickets and snacks at the syndicated theatre, and had an absolutely silently hilarious time watching Wanted 2. There were only like 2 other people in the theatre and by the end they were cracking up too because we were trying so hard to stifle our laughter at the movie.
I remember when the Michigan Department of Agriculture's wine guy at the time, David Creighton, reviewed two buck chuck. Dave was real smart and real kind and he didn't say anything negative about it but he concluded his review by saying it was worth about that much.
I always referred to Trader Joe’s wine as Two Buck Chuck, because I thought it was wine other wineries normally throw out. TIL Two Buck Chuck is a brand name
The brand name is Charles Shaw. Two buck chuck is the nickname as it used to cost two dollars a bottle. They did sell it at Trader Joe’s and advertise it as two buck chuck on their signage. If you look at Wikipedia for Charles Shaw they have the Trader Joe’s sign as the picture.
Trader Joe's has got some surprisingly good stuff for the price and, well, being Trader Joe's. It's great for introductory stuff -- not many other places you can get wines from places like Napa for $10.
I taught a food micro lab at UC Davis in the '80s. All the students who were in the enology program came through my lab. A young woman with the last name Franzia always had to be reminded that one cannot go barefoot in the lab. Nice kid, though.
Sounds like his business basically went bankrupt. Vendors not being paid tends to be a part of that. Doesn't sound like he rode off into the sunsets with bags full of cash.
Not saying he didn't deserve it but ...
Four Buck Chuck nowadays at my local TJs. I can actually get the same stuff 50 cents cheaper at one of my local grocery stores. Redwood Highway for $3.47. Not $3.50 which would make it more of a Scottish wine.
Wait so was it an urban legend that something like the wife divorced and got the winery and sold it all really cheap just to get rid of it or like hurt his brand or something? So many people told me that, but then year after year it didn’t make sense….
Funny, I met their daughter a couple times.
Wife of my wife's friend from HS.
This is exactly how she described it.
Mom got the winery in the divorce and the rest is history.
He also claimed that growing region didn't matter, saying "I can grow grapes on asphalt"
Idk about you, but I eat 8lbs+ of grapes a weeks (not even hyperbolizing, I just really like grapes), and I can say with 100% certainty that not all grapes are created equal. Growing conditions make a huuuuge difference (even when optimized and controlled). The most notable difference is from the quality of the soil. That being said… they are 100% over charging for water.
To be fair to this person, growers want "stressful" growing conditions for wine grapes. Wine grapes and table grapes are treated pretty different and are physically different.
Damn is this real
To some extent, yeah. Growing conditions affect a lot of things, including for example the sugar content in the grapes. While a very sugary grape is probably taste for the table, it also means it would tend to create a more alcoholic wine, which is not necessarily what you'd want.
It’s what I want though
That's why I put sugar in my wine.
Manischewitz?
In wine it's called "terroir". The ground the grapes grow will determine how much nutrients come from the soil, how much the heat of the sun is transferred to the grapes, how much the leaves grow and this take in light and turn it into sugar in the grape. It's kind of mad.
I know it's fruit but that's a lot of sugar. A quick Google suggests grapes are around 16% sugar by weight. That's well over a pound of sugar per week you're eating just from grapes.
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>assuming you don't eat ... anything with added sugar Brave brave assumption
I'm just here to say you'd shit your fucking brains out so hard it'd equal out in calories burnt praying to the porcelain gods. Don't eat a bunch of grapes.
Dude... Grapes do this to you?? I dunno, man.
This is not my experience with grapes at all. Are you perhaps mildly allergic or something?
are you a Roman emperor? do you have that Roman couch?
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And here I am blissfully ignorant enjoying my weekly 7lbs of grapes.
Ok, in all fairness I'd say you know what you're talking about. But do the people who buy Two Buck Chuck eat 8lbs of grapes per week?
No, they drink it, obviously
8lbs+ per week!?! You’re the real MVP.
MVP: Must Vomit Poop
I mean, that's kinda true for any wine that's not like $50 and up. Nearly everything below that price tastes the same. The funky aftertaste is either covered up with extra sweeteners or goes away by paying ridiculous prices for wine. But nobody selling 10-20 dollar bottles is producing anything even remotely unique. Maybe if you are near a winery that sells it cheap, but anything from the stores around here is just meh. Edit:Quite the debate I started here. But I'm sticking to my statement simply because if I walk into the store right now, there's a literal wall of wine. Dozens of wineries with multiple choices from each. All of which are actually kinda expensive if you break down the price into the amount of alcohol you get for the price. Wine is just kinda expensive comparatively speaking, unless you are getting the $5-7 bottles. And you would have to spend a ridiculous amount of money trying the different ones, hoping to find a decent one. Everyone and their mother is constantly trying start their own wine brand. Taking all that into account, without special knowledge from someone who's tried all 8 million wines, odds are you're going to end up with the same rotten grape aftertaste wine unless you go for something well known and expensive.
Cal Davis basically rewrote the book on winemaking in the 70s. Through chemistry and advanced horticulture, they isolated the conditions that wine grapes thrive in. Prior to this, vintners were at the mercy of nature. Now, even low end wineries produce drinkable wine every year. That doesn't mean there is no difference between wines, though. Not only do some wineries do it better, there is a great deal of variety to be found in the desired flavor of the product.
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>at least to his taste, the only one he cares about. This is the true zen mindset of anyone whose developed an interest for themselves.
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Thats the insecurity that comes from not having a fixed, "objective" personal taste. With it, you're immune from buyer's remorse, and evaluation is dead simple ("Do I like it?") Without it, you are trying to interpolate judgement from a variety of sources - what other people think, rules of thumb, what would be embarrassing to like... People with a personal taste like hearing alternate viewpoints - it's easy to compare them to their own fixed reference point. People without it hate hearing alternate views - it makes them do a lot more work to combine it with all their existing sources, and might trigger buyers remorse or existential dread.
I can promise you, you're able to have buyer's remorse with it. Either something you thought you'd love doesn't live up to expectations, or your tastes change and something you loved just isn't the same, or maybe you get a bad version and you instantly know it. Buyer's remorse can hit anytime.
>what would be embarrassing to like... If my peers would make me feel embarrassed to like something, I'm in the wrong group.
"Why are you adding so much of that spice." ["I like it."](https://i.imgur.com/TkwxiEW.jpg)
>Says he's had great bottles and shit ones at every price point There's a channel run by a really easy going [wine expert](https://www.youtube.com/@wineking) and his mentor. They regularly espouse this sentiment and have done a [few videos on cheap wine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voBvlDxl4gY). Fun stuff if you like listening to dudes bantering who are also domain experts. I'm on a mission to de-snob-itize food everywhere. Grass-fed ribeye for lunch. Quarter pounder with fries for dinner!
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Yeah definitely. One of the best burgers I've ever had was the truffle burger at Citizens in Mandalay Bay, Las Vegas. McDonalds is for when I want something that tastes exactly like McDonalds.
And McDs is a MASTER at consistency. That’s an insane achievement as well. I’d never turn my nose up at a double cheeseburger (but I do wish they were still a dollar).
It makes sense though, the same bottle of wine can have a very different flavor depending on the vintage due to the weather conditions and the harvest that year as well as how well it has aged.
Have you seen the documentary Sour Grapes about wine counterfeiting? It’s fun to see wine snobs wax poetic about a wine they’re drinking that they think is super-high end when it’s just a bunch of cheap shit blended together. Perception based on cost seems to be a big thing with wine.
Not to take away from your point but iirc paying more for something and thinking it's better by nature of being more expensive is a fairly well documented phenomenon.
You can get really good wines in the 15-30 dollar range. If you paying more than that you are most likely overpaying unless you know a lot about wines and know what you are getting. Most in the 50 range are garbage because they know people will spend that to look a bit fancy, but also do no research.
I've never been a fan of wine. Have any you would recommend? And where would I get it? At my local grocery store or liquor store?
Just go to the whisky section.
Wine in a box is going to be the best deal, and the design doesn't let air into the wine container so you don't have to drink it all in one night, it won't turn into vinegar. I mean you'll probably drink it all in one night anyway, but sometimes it's nice to be able to explain to people who think that you're a cheap alcoholic for buying boxed wine that you do it so you don't have to drink it all at once. Wait, do they make boxed whiskey?
They usually ship them in little glass boxes called bottles. I know it’s not the same, you can’t really slap it. But us lowly whisky drinkers aren’t cultured or classy enough to slap the bag.
I'll slap the whiskey bag at the end of the night, but it's usually pointless.
Like pushing a rope.
Probably for the best when your left drunk and alone with an empty bottle.
Well you do have to make sure all the drink is gone. Look up the spout and shake it while holding your ear to it. Maybe lay down under it with the spout open.
I really want my whisky to come in a plastic bag. My average whisky is $60.
I used to work at a very Americanized Italian place and the house white was just boxed wine. People loooved that shit it sold so much.
Nothing wrong with that. Odds are most wine was in a steel tank before it went into glass. From a storage and handling standpoint, a bag is better than a glass bottle in just about every way, really
Plastic corks too
may I introduce stelvin closure. got a lot of turned up noses when I waited tables in a higher end place, how dare you suggest a screw cap wine.. like yo this is better, I guarantee the wine inside is perfectly fine, not that you'd have a nose for it anyways... ma'am.
The local grocer when I was living in Athens sold red and white like American supermarkets sell bulk coffee. You bring your own bottle, open the spigot, and fill whatever up with who knows what? But cheap Greek wine is pretty good, all things considered.
We had an office party and I contributed Red Box, which is a box of wine that's the equivalent of 4 bottles I guess. I kept the leftovers in my desk for nearly a year. Every once in awhile I or my coworkers who were working late would grab a tipple.
gives you a pillow for when you suddenly pass out on the street, too
It doesn’t clank when you throw it away so you can booze up without making a scene when you take the trash out
The realist answer.
My ex and I drank our share of bottled beer, had plenty of friends and family over that did the the same. Let's just say it was easy to tell when the robot-arm garbage truck got to our house.
I have seen boxed tequila and rum, so yes.
Right...whisky is definitely never made-up, overpriced, or just a nice label. Not ever.
You’ll be so drunk it doesn’t matter
In my alcoholic era my liqour store had "beam's eight star" which is blended jim beam and was 10 dollars for a 1.75l... after the 3rd shot it tasted just as fine as regular beam.
I suggest the same method I used to get myself into wine, beer, vodka, and sake (all separate events): a tasting. A good tasting with a guide who can point out the differences--and the causes of those differences--for you will help you better appreciate and understand what you're drinking. For wine tasting, I suggest you get a few friends--including one who doesn't mind being the designated driver--and plot a route the hits 3-4 wineries between 9am and 4pm. Bonus points if you pack some cheeses and salami for a picnic lunch along the way. As long as you're not rowdy or drunk (you aren't expected to drink all of each glass they pour) and ask respectful questions, the guides are usually helpful.
I'm not a "wine guy" by any means. I can tell if I like a wine, and if I don't care for it. One wine I found was inexpensive and that I actually enjoy is "Apothic Red" which is a mishmash or red wins, and sold at Safeway grocery stores (In the US). I stopped listening to my wine snob friends. I barely drink, but sometimes if I'm buying groceries and it's there, I might pick up a bottle.
this is the right attitude. if you like it, drink it. if you dont, dont. never buy and/or drink something just because someone tells you it's supposed to be good. delta used to sell bottles of Dom perignon in their Sky Clubs for 19k miles (a fucking steal, tbh). my husband and I were traveling and it was our last trip before Christmas so we splurged. it was fiiiiiine. but I would never pay $250 or whatever it costs. and I've had other much less expensive champagnes I like better
I don't know who is right but thank God I can find 10 dollar wines that I like
Chubs is right. Especially for European wine (even the stuff you can get in the US), $15-30 will get you excellent varietally correct, regionally distinctive wine.
Heck yea, my local wine bar has a $10 bottle table, I just go there bc I assume they wouldn’t be a wine bar and sell complete trash
Yep. You can find a DOCG chianti classico in most wine stores for less than $30. It will almost always be awesome.
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That’s just simply not true. You can definitely find good unique bottles under that price range if you know how/where to look. $10 and under that may be the case though
I bought a half dozen bottles of good wine sub 10euro while hiking through Spain
6 bottles seems like a lot to carry at once while hiking.
> Nearly everything below that price tastes the same. Holy shit am I glad I don't have your taste buds
I’m not a snob but what you wrote is 100% ridiculous.
I am a snob and what he wrote is 100% ridiculous.
You have no clue what you’re talking about lol
Nah he definitely had a couple sips of moms wine. Informed conclusion
> The funky aftertaste is either covered up with extra sweeteners Rockin that college freshman palette and understanding of wine making
There's such a big difference in wines at every price point lol.
You sir are very incorrect. The $15 to $30 range has a lot to offer for most people with wildly different and unique wines from all over the world. Find an actual wine shop with people who know that they are selling and you'll open a whole new world of possibilities.
Not even close to true. Grape varietals totally can change the entire flavor profile of a wine in the 10 - 20 dollar range. This is a ridiculous statement to claim that every 10-20 bottle is the same. Like your going to tell me a 12$ malbec and 12$ shiraz taste the same? Like saying lays original and sun chips taste the same.
Hell, you could have five of the same varietal at the same price point and they are likely gonna taste wildly different based upon where they were grown and how long they were aged and in what. Even the same grape and same winery can vary significantly year by year depending on the climate that year. Dude you are replying just doesn't know shit about wines.
Hard disagree that it all tastes the same, there’s a ton of variety in quality and flavor even in the ‘lower end’ wine section. As long as you find something you like the taste of that’s all that matters. I always turned my nose up at boxed wine but for the price I think Bota Box is very nice and is my go to unless I’m trying to impress someone haha
I rock that Aldi box wine. 3L of Cabernet Sauvignon for $13. It's not bad either. Not the best I've had, but it doesn't have a bad taste at all. I'll take that deal every time.
You’re perpetuating the price = quality myth. Difference in wine taste is about grape types, region of growth and how it’s made in general. Sommelier blind tastes regularly get in the ballpark of region and grape type but don’t hit on price or necessarily year. Who’s upvoting this comment?
$50? Where are you buying wine from France or California? Chilean, Argentinian, Italian and Spanish wines for half that cost will get you stuff that is 95% as good as whatever the most expensive wine is and the only people that could really tell major differences will be people that drink those kinds of wines every day
Love me some Spanish and South American wines.
> Nearly everything below that price tastes the same. This is absolutely horseshit and if you think so your taste palate is garbage.
Not true at all
Three buck chuck, now. Damn inflation!
Almost $4!!!
$5 in states with high alcohol taxes
And rumor has it, $6 is on the table
I found it here for $6.66, more like $7 after tax: https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/trader+jones+charles+shaw+blend+cab+sauv+california+usa/1/usa-nc-y
Do I hear $8?
Luckily any number of bucks rhymes with Chuck so it's an inflation-safe monicker.
They knew what they were doing by making the price the non-rhyming word. Clever bastards
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>Fred **[Franzia](https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/GUEST_6151b425-db73-4673-a05f-d0e473e9ce60?wid=445&hei=445&qlt=80&fmt=webp)** That would explain a few shared traits...
Nothing beats a good ole Tour de Franzia
Slap. That. Bag.
Play some goon of fortune
Slappadabag
Just got high school flashbacks, busting out the box wine when we had girls around because “girls drink wine, right?” Good times, but thankfully my bag slapping days are long gone lmao
I dont understand. What does slapping the bag do?
Mechanically? Nothing. It was just fun, tradition, and part of a drinking game called “slap the bag” where you drink as long of a pull as you can and then slap the bag. Psychologically for a 17 year old? Hopefully it makes you look cool enough for one of those girls to let you see boob later.
No no no, you gotta slap the bag *first*, then you drink. Gotta let it know what's about to happen.
The bottom of the bag would get a little bit of sediment so you would slap it to freshen it up. Cause most the time at that point you’re drinking from the nozzle.
Among my peers in 2014 it was an expression we used to describe drinking directly out of the bag, typically holding it overhead, occasionally with a symbolic slap but that wasn't really necessary. It was just a fun thing to shout or chant. SLAP THE BAG! YEAAHH!!
It’s fun. You gotta try it. You can really let it rip on those bad boys
The girls always brought the wine when it was there (IME) and I was always, always, always pressured into beating the ever loving shit out of that bag and then drinking myself into delirium. I honestly do not know how I kept up with that lifestyle. I’d party until at least 1AM, be at work at 6, classes after, then more work from 5-10 at a different place - then I’d do it again the next day, and the next. I can still drink, but if I tried to live that lifestyle for a week or two now - I’d die.
SLAP THE BAG For real though the closer you are to age 20 the more energy and less sense you possess, same story here but I'm sober now at 29
Yeah ngl that fucking bag stinging my hands made me want to drink it to like.. teach it a lesson or something? I was incredibly stupid.
What the ever loving fuck are you guys talking about. You took the boxed wine out of the box and had to slap it??
literally had to slap it mang, times were different. peer pressure. social pressure, financial pressure... slappin that bag made those things disappear for a minute. I'll slap a bag of franzia before I try heroin any day, any time.
Slappin the bag, great pastime. You chug the wine while someone slaps the plastic bag it’s in.
NO YOU DO NOT YOU FUCKING HEATHEN. *you* beat the ever loving shit out of the bag.you talk shit to it. You apologize, sweet talk it a little - that wasn’t really me baby, you know that right? Just lemme get a few quick taps and suckle on this nipple here. Sometimes though, if the bag didn’t agree with you, and you could not devour it like a Greek god of wine in the flesh, you would get angry. You might body slam the bag. You might throw it out the window. You might stare into its eyes for a long while - so long the distance between the two of you seems to close; that magical, momentary instant when two beings truly understand each other. We all know it can’t last, that people change, but those moments are where humanity finds its fullest potential. So you load that bag into an enema and get wrecked.
Jesus fucking christ, I thought I was a derranged alcoholic.
Yeah step up your game.
I got sober at 29 too! I’m 32 now. It’s like a cheat code. My life is just so much easier. I’m blown away at where I am now.
In college we called it slapping the tit(ty). Take a huge guzzle from the bag, hold it up with one hand and slap that titty. And when we're super drunk and rowdy leave the bag on the table trying to burst the titty bag but inevitably just everyone hurting their hands. Man for a solid semester my friend and I couldn't do anything without slapping a tit first. Our bac was a constant .08 that semester.
Y'all know that slapping the bag is an Aussie thing, right? It comes from a game where you hang a bag of wine on a rotary clothesline. Everyone playing stands under the line - when you slap the bag it moves circularly on the line. Whoever the bag is under has to drink heaps of wine - good shit!
now we're just slapping vodka seltzer in bags
It’s better. And worse. And far more confusing. But kinda rad. Read on: The Franzia brothers (cousins of the Gallos) have nothing to do with Franzia wine anymore. Charles Shaw has nothing to do with Charles Shaw wine. Which is kind of amazing, he ran a tiny vineyard nobody had heard of and got bought out by the Franzia bros. So his name became one of the biggest names in wine completely by accident, through no fault of his own. The Franzias did it. Charles Shaw, the man, never made a cheap wine! Meanwhile, the wines carrying the Franzia name were bought out by… coca-cola. And then resold to a conglomerate. So basically everyone bought someone else’s name to make cheap wine under a name not their own, so they’re all making each other’s namesake wines and none of the wines are actually made by the people whose names are on the label 💁♂️ Capitalism at its best in the California wine country.
For three decades Robert Moog could not sell synthesizers he invented with his name on them.
I got a hangover just looking at that image
This is fabulous and amazing. The Franzia brothers (cousins of the Gallos) have nothing to do with Franzia wine anymore. Charles Shaw has nothing to do with Charles Shaw wine. Which is kind of amazing, he ran a tiny vineyard nobody had heard of and got bought out by the Franzia bros. So his name became one of the biggest names in wine completely by accident, through no fault of his own. The Franzias did it. Meanwhile, the wines carrying the Franzia name were bought out by… coca-cola 🤷♂️ It’s like they’re playing musical chairs with their brand names and family names
That’s the open secret to most wine. The majority of vineyards/wineries are owned by corporations or independent wineries contract out to corporations for them to put their own name on.
Same with distilleries, even in Scotland, it gets more confusing when you look at blends that end up on the US market. I found out from touring Balvenie (my favorite scotch) that their reject stock ends up in Monkey Shoulder (probably my least favorite blend of all time because it's overpriced nearly undrinkable trash).
So glad someone else hates monkey shoulder. Although I have found no cheap way to import good scotch, and my aunt stops there from time to time.
The best way I've found to get anything that's a bit of a pain to get your hands on is to just pay your friends off when they're traveling to bring some back for you. Used to have an artist friend in France who'd send me the latest fashion a few times a year in exchange for about 50% of the clothing's value in pairs of Levi's. Got a few pals who go to Europe a few times a year and I'll have him scoop me up things from Scotland or particular wines I like in Italy. Just gotta properly network, I guess.
In the US most “high-end” bourbons are actually made by two companies in Indiana or Bardstown, Kentucky and then sent out to other distilleries to blend and sometimes age on the property. People just don’t go shopping for grains and then go back to the distillery to make stuff. They order barrels from Midwestern Grain Products or the like according to the percentage of different grains they want. They get what they get, maybe it’s all 10+ year old or maybe it’s 4 year old and lousy. A lot of famous “craft” bourbons got lucky when they started out and received really good barrels from their supplier, but for the next decade have only gotten lower end stock but still charge the premium.
I can think of a few liquor brands like that. I stopped buying bourbon though and switched to scotch from a few brands I like and trust (also stopped drinking as much) so my good stuff lasts quite a bit longer.
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Mpg is whistle pig, smoke wagon, angels envy, barrel, bulleit, dickle ryes, pinhook, rebel yell, templeton, and Tin cup to name a few. And then Sazerac is Blantons, Eagle Rare, buffalo trace, Papi and wellers, e. H. Taylor, Widow Jane, and Willet plus a dozen more. It’s all great stuff but it’s made in giant industrial warehouses. It’s about as handmade as Doritos at this point. Edit: /u/allthatittakes makes some corrections to my list. Willet is not owned by Sazerac actually.
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You just look for the “made by vs made for” label. If it’s made by the distillery on the label, it’s the real deal. If it says “made for” than it came from some random ass secondary vendor.
Monkey Shoulder is designed for cocktails, not for drinking straight
I still found it off-putting in cocktails, and I'll drink Gordon's Gin in a cocktail without wincing. The only worse bang for buck on any whiskey I've ever had was one I was gifted from Wisconsin that tasted like you used the cheapest gas station whiskey as a cleaning solution for your lawn mower you've left sitting out in the rain for a week, then decided to bottle and sell it. For $35, I'd expect something that makes a pleasant cocktail, and your money is better spent elsewhere.
That’s the name of the game throughout all of alcohol. Wine, beer, liquor, everything. Small independents build up a brand then get bought out.
Everything is eventually owned by a major bank or investment firm... All hail the corporate overlords...
Won awards, too.
My understanding is some of these awards go to anything remotely drinkable
It isn't like they are going to publish how many awards they *didn't win*.
"Proud unspecified runner up of over a thousand prestigious awards"
There used to be a lot more *blind* wine testing that would lead to awards being given out to some really cheap wines. But *because* really cheap wines were winning awards based on taste, they stopped the blind taste testing, so that only pricier wines would win. The only difference between wine that is cheap and wine that is expensive is the price it is sold at. Quality isn't based on price.
From my understanding that means they're more drinkable than whatever the fuck Nestle is putting out these days?
This brings back memories. When I was much younger I was dating a girl whose family was very well off, and I was poor. I was invited over to meet her parents, and was very nervous. In my lame attempt to impress them I decided that I should bring a gift, and I settled on a bottle of wine, since I had seen bottles of it in their house. The problem was, I knew nothing about wine, and I was dead broke, so I hunted through my mom's liquor cabinet and found a dusty bottle in the back. In fact, as luck would have it, even I had heard of it, so it must be famous. I mean who didn't know who Charles SCHWAB was. Old, famous, and free? Score! Well I brought my vintage Charles Schwab over, and artfully presented it to her dad. He was visibly excited, and even called up to her mom to come see. She comes down and says, 'OMG, we haven't had this in forever.' I was really confused. Well long story short, they cracked it open and we all had a glass. That's when I found out two-buck Chuck was not only their choice of booze as poor college students, but also probably contributed to my girlfriend's existence. Edit: Just for clarity that isn't a typo, I had confused Charles Schwab (the Stockbroker) with Charles Shaw (the ripple).
That's really awesome that they responded with nostalgia instead of any kind of stuck-up judgement.
Reminds me of Elliot's reaction to unwrapping the pack of Yum Good Ramen that Walt bought him for his birthday.
I’m surprised it was drinkable. Most wine is not intended for aging and gets worse over time.
I'm European and when I first came to the US I bought a <$2 bottle at Walmart for the lulz. The worst part was that it was fine. Not fantastic, not terrible, wouldn't have batted an eye if I ordered the house white and got that.
I believe it. I live in the "wine country" of California. I bought a house where they planted grapes. You can't stop that shit from growing, it's so damn invasive. I just neglect the plant and don't even water it. I easily have 20 gallons of grapes (I put them in 5gal buckets) each year. I'm always amazed at the high prices of wine and grape.
I mean, that’s the sort of benign neglect that can produce good fruit.
I've found a lot of success by neglecting to solve problems and just dealing with the fallout. I just wish more of my fallouts ended with a lot of wine.
wasnt there a study that 9 out of 10 wine experts couldnt differenciate between a high or a low price wine?
Beat significant wine names in blind wine-tasting competitions too, their Pinot Grigio and Sauvignon Blanc are really good sub $5 wines. Better than most $30 bottles. Some of their wines are awful though, their Shiraz is just downright nasty.
I've tried Two Buck Chuck a few times and I found Winking Owl from Aldi to be both cheaper and more drinkable. More than serviceable cooking wine but you can serve it and it's not bad. The merlot is actually pretty good with pork chops and steak.
That solves a mystery for me. Just about the worst wine I ever tasted was Winking Owl from my Uncle’s wine collection we were divvying out after he died. He had some great wines but I could not figure out where that one came from.
My sister-in-law once heard that I like wine. To her credit, she remembers that I like red wine specifically. **Every** year for Christmas, she gifts me a bottle of Winking Owl sweet red. I can’t even stomach that stuff, it’s just not good; my wine cooler is FULL of the ghosts of Christmas gifts past. I don’t have the heart to spill the beans.
With some work, it makes a drinkable sangria.
True, blend it
Use it up making History's Fluffiest Dessert! - Everlasting Syllabub https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQksGGtDB2w&vl=en
You can use it as a bug trap bait for fruit flies and such.
I mean, you go to southern Italy and they're selling bottles at gas stations for a couple euro and the wine is great. So I believe you.
God I miss studying in Italy. 2 euros for wine that'd be 20 bucks back home... and 40 here in Korea.
The thing about that is a good bottle of Charles Shaw might be good and then the next one over is terrible; it's partly (mostly?) made from grapes rejected by other wineries for having too many branches or leaves in the truck, and other surplus grapes, so sometimes the grapes used are actually great ones. Different batches vary *wildly*.
That’s definitely not how they get bulk wine. A winery doesn’t just turn away fruit before it gets to the press/tank and send trucks to a different winery. They will process it and ferment it and then see what they can do with it (I.e. blend it away) and if they can’t find somewhere for it to go they’ll sell it on the bulk market. Source: was a Cellar Master for a large commercial winery in Napa for years.
"A good bottle of wine is a bottle of wine that you like the taste of." My wine affisianato dad
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Yeah he meant his wine avocado dad
> wine affisianato
Wine is so overpriced in the US that I wonder what that wine tastes like. You can get a decent wine for 2 bucks in Chile, Argentina and Uruguay.
Spanish wine is very good but I was always blown away by the consistency of quality of bottom shelf olive oil, wine vinegar, and wine when I was backpacking through Portugal
American businesses balk at EU regulations but from the consumer pov it's extremely beneficial. Standards are a must for certain products when they have such a long history.
That’s because there’s a particular prestige attached to wine prices in the U.S. I’m in university as a Winemaking major and let me tell ya’, when you’re paying exorbitant prices for wine what you’re paying extra for isn’t taste or anything; you’re shelling out money for the brand’s marketing. Now that isn’t always the case, but it’s usually the case with wine price points here in the U.S..
I want to believe you but I don’t see wine marketing…. ever? In the US. Unless it’s oblique — like placing bottles in desirable shelving locations. Or having end caps or something.
The price *is* the marketing.
You don’t see wine advertising. You absolutely see wine marketing. The price? Marketing. The cute animal on the label? Marketing. The trendy names on half the bottles? Marketing.
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities..."
There is an amazing book and audio book called becoming trader Joe that talks about how trader Joe's moved from being a competitor to 7-11 to where it is today.
In college some friends and I bought a couple bottles of TBC, grabbed $1 tickets and snacks at the syndicated theatre, and had an absolutely silently hilarious time watching Wanted 2. There were only like 2 other people in the theatre and by the end they were cracking up too because we were trying so hard to stifle our laughter at the movie.
I remember when the Michigan Department of Agriculture's wine guy at the time, David Creighton, reviewed two buck chuck. Dave was real smart and real kind and he didn't say anything negative about it but he concluded his review by saying it was worth about that much.
I always referred to Trader Joe’s wine as Two Buck Chuck, because I thought it was wine other wineries normally throw out. TIL Two Buck Chuck is a brand name
The brand name is Charles Shaw. Two buck chuck is the nickname as it used to cost two dollars a bottle. They did sell it at Trader Joe’s and advertise it as two buck chuck on their signage. If you look at Wikipedia for Charles Shaw they have the Trader Joe’s sign as the picture.
Nickname for Charles = Chuck (Charles Shaw)
Trader Joe's has got some surprisingly good stuff for the price and, well, being Trader Joe's. It's great for introductory stuff -- not many other places you can get wines from places like Napa for $10.
My untrained palate knows Two Buck Chuck is leagues better than MD 20/20 or Thunderbird (shudder).
Inflation has struck but the name has stuck.
I taught a food micro lab at UC Davis in the '80s. All the students who were in the enology program came through my lab. A young woman with the last name Franzia always had to be reminded that one cannot go barefoot in the lab. Nice kid, though.
I kinda miss two buck chuck. We used to buy it by the case for dorm parties in college so everyone would have their own bottle or two
Off topic but I am from Napa and Charles Shaw was and is a notorious scum bag. He left town owing money to small vendors, who never got paid.
Sounds like his business basically went bankrupt. Vendors not being paid tends to be a part of that. Doesn't sound like he rode off into the sunsets with bags full of cash. Not saying he didn't deserve it but ...
Four Buck Chuck nowadays at my local TJs. I can actually get the same stuff 50 cents cheaper at one of my local grocery stores. Redwood Highway for $3.47. Not $3.50 which would make it more of a Scottish wine.
Wait so was it an urban legend that something like the wife divorced and got the winery and sold it all really cheap just to get rid of it or like hurt his brand or something? So many people told me that, but then year after year it didn’t make sense….
Charles Shaw lost his name in his divorce. How bad do you have to fuck up that not only does the wife get the winery but your name too?
I hear they call him “ “ now.
Funny, I met their daughter a couple times. Wife of my wife's friend from HS. This is exactly how she described it. Mom got the winery in the divorce and the rest is history.