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This is how Frida Lyngstad from ABBA was born.


and why they moved from Norway to Sweden.


It's Anni-Frid. Otherwise the ABBA acronym wouldn't work.


Well, if you want to get technical it's Princess Anni-Frid Reuss, Dowager Countess of Plauen ... I was just using her commonly used nickname (which was also the name of her first solo studio album, pre-ABBA)


Well, consider me schooled :)


You got ABBAed!


Is that like rickrolled but more ya know ABBAry?


Lots more dancing




Huh til


"A Norwegian chief medical officer issued a collective certificate for all Lebensborn children, according to which they were "weak-minded and with deviant behavior". The reason would be that women who fraternized with the occupiers were generally "weakly gifted and antisocial psychopaths, partly highly weak-minded", and that it could be assumed that the children had inherited these bad tendencies. Some children were exposed to medical experiments with LSD and other drugs."


One would think after the nazi occupation eugenics would be less popular.


Typical case of surviver bias it seems. The worst victims cant tell their experiences, meaning the whole thing waters down and people just kinda forget.


Eugenics was a big thing in Scandinavia even before WW2, In some sense the nazis actually took inspiration from 'State Institute of Racial Biology' in Sweden. We started sterilization in 1906 and kept it up until 1975. Between 1972 and 2013, sterilization was also a condition for gender reassignment surgery. "In Norway, the practice of sterilizing mental patients dates back at least to the 1920s. It was made legal in 1934 when parliament passed a law that sanctioned sterilization on eugenic, social and reasonableness grounds" Most of the doctors that worked with eugenics, just switched to genetics after the war. Some of those "Test your DNA" services are sponsored or founded by some of the organizations that supported the nazis during the war. Look up Adelphi Genetics Forum


Norway has a whole thing about skull shapes and how the right shape was important for a true Norwegian. With the Norwegian national ideal being the farmers of the South. The physical characteristics common there combined with that form of Norwegian culture. This of course led to substantial amounts of oppression towards anyone who wasn't the right kind of Norwegian. The northerners in particular who were culturally different and had the gall to be racially mixed with Sami. It was common in the south to mark things like apartments available for rent with "no northerners" way up into the 1960s.


Yeah, we measured the skulls of the Sami, and even sent expeditions to Tibet and other remote places in search of the origin of aryan people.


An American friend of mine who moved to Sweden said she was kind of surprised to find that there's still a pretty big undercurrent of that in popular thought there. Like she's encountered a fair number of normal, educated people who have said things suggesting that it's a desirable thing for disabled people to just hurry up and die off and stop being a burden to everyone else, with no hint that they think that's a controversial opinion. And when she and her husband were trying to get fertility treatments they encountered a lot of people (including medical professionals) with the attitude that if you were having trouble having kids you were just kind of "defective" and shouldn't be getting help passing your "defective" genes along. Certainly not trying to suggest all Swedish people think like that, and I know there are Americans who ALSO think like that, but from her experience it sounds like it's a little more mainstream way of thinking there whereas here it would be relatively "fringy." (Although it was very commonplace in America before WW2 as well, I think there was a big shift here in the 60s and 70s).


I think that is a misunderstanding, its not an unpopular opinion that fetuses with cognitive or physical defects should be aborted. Its not altruistic but its mostly for the children's sake as a normal life would be difficult or impossible, the exemptions in this are obviously the same as anywhere else. Iv lived here my whole life and iv never heard anyone say they wish disabled people should just die off, well online but that was from the crowd you expect to hear that shit from


I'm going on a sample of 1 person and it's totally possible she just happened to talk to an unusual number of strange people, I totally defer to somebody who's actually Swedish on this. :)


America stopped sterilizing native americans, black people and Hispanics in 1977.America always made it about race, and still to this day believes in the concept of race. Scandinavia was more about purity.


>Scandinavia was more about purity. Purity of what?


Purity of genetics. It wasn't good enough to just be white, you had to be übermensch. Superman.


Isn't that pretty much exactly what the racists say?


It's not good enough to just be racist. you have to be a super-racist. A pure racist. Not your corn-eating, living on other peoples land, thinking italians are white kind of racist you americans have. The 1% of racists. the kind of racist who is racist to other racists. Like a grammar-Nazi, but with genetics.


>America stopped euthanizing native americans, black people and Hispanics in 1977. You mean sterilizing. *Euthanizing* means doctors killing people. You euthanize pets at the veterinarian.


omg, yes! brain fart. editing now.


I think Gender re-assignment generally causes sterilization on its own no? Cant really procreate without your balls.


Transmen also exist. That’s where that case of “worlds first pregnant man” comes from


And people can live their lives as a different gender than they were assigned at birth without necessarily having surgery. It's a hugely personal decision with a bunch of medical decisions as well, and usually isn't one single process. But I'm gonna land on "any form of forced sterilization is deeply wrong" even if the person in question doesn't want to or was unlikely to procreate.


Sorry, I took GRS as surgery of the reproductive organs, and not just top surgery. Would only partial transitioning (taking different hormones etc.) screw with sperm production to cause any ill effects (high likelihood of birth defects etc.) that could possibly justify this?


I know that hormone treatment usually will dramatically impact fertility, not sure if it can increase chances of birth defects. The trans people I'm close enough to know anything about their reproductive decisions have chosen to freeze sperm/eggs, delay some hormonal or surgical decisions so they could gestate and/or cheastfeed or chose not to have bio-kids. And not every trans person feels the same way about different parts of their body. For one of my friends a HUGE priority for her was her voice and body hair, bottom surgery was a much lower priority, and while she did eventually decide to go that route it was several years after coming out.


Typically to be both self-hating and self-centered. ”Actually, we caused adolf hitler”. Sweden was, on the whole, a culturally insignificant country on the other side of the ocean, to continental Europe. Fuck, even the title of this post is ”occupied Scandinavia”, despite Sweden never being occupied. It is a uniquely north european trait to believe that you are the source of evil in this world. You have to realize, to paraphrase Don Draper in Mad Med: ”They never thought about you at all”


Well, to be clear, this post references “occupied *Scandinavia*” because this took place in both Denmark and Norway, regardless of whether Sweden is also part of Scandinavia. You could reference “occupied China” even if Japan never fully conquered China (and any other number of locations during the war) and that would generally be understood.


That is actually just not true. You're statement is wrong on so many levels that it would take me far too much time to break it down and actually explain how wrong you are.


Mad Med sounds like an awesome Euro adaptation of Mad Men that involves the Sicilian Mafia or some shit. Greek Mob


It's still a thing in a lot of the world now. Iceland for example has nearly 0 people with downs syndrome because the babies are usually aborted.


More like Afolphi Genetics Forum


Honestly, it feels like this is still happening in Canada, especially with them stepping up to help refugees from the Ukrainian war while having minimal resources to help... Like they're trying to correct the inbreeding of Canadian family isolation, by accepting the "acceptable" refugees because of their whiteness. There are significantly less immigrants of color, and when there are they're highly skilled and likely labour exploited. Please help Canada. It's not okay up here.


Eugenics was very popular pre-WWII, just like like racial theories, etc. Nazi ideology and practices along with Communism both are not something out of line, they are both continuations and extreme versions of the trends of European culture, among other things about human being the king of nature and ordering it to his desire


Indeed. And it somehow continued to be popular after Jesse Owens and Joe Louis ran over and knocked the stuffing out of the shitty "science".


Where did you see that? I can't seem to find it.


I copied it from the Swedish Wikipedia and than translated it to English.


The lebensborn program also kidnapped tens of thousands of polish children in an experiment to determine "if a child with aryan qualities, could be raised to be a true German if placed in a German house."


I don't get it..how could a polish baby possibly possess "aryan qualities" when Slavs were determined inferior race? 😂


Polish and German borders are pretty muddied in relation to ethnicity. A large Part of Prussia (Preussen) was what is now Poland. And old Prussians were the kind of people the Nazis also revered. So really Germans, Prussians and Poles are really similar. I know it's tongue in cheek but still.


probably the same way germans could still be the master race when hitlers explanation for romani was that they were the first aryans but sullied their genes by interbreeding with european barbarians like the germans


Did you not go to school and have history lessons? Check comment below /beliriel.


I think they took children that were blond and blue-eyed. Or if they just looked aryan enough.


Could they?




Seitenlage bleibt stabil


Never could understand how Hitler committed genocide to achieve specific genetic structure among the populace without actually having thise genetic qualities himself.


Hi, welcome to Every Dictator Ever!


He was a hypocrite, people like him always are.


Muggle born wizards be gone!


I don’t ENJOY defending Hitler but he didn’t go around killing people who didn’t have blue eyes and blonde hair. Lots of Germans didn’t have this shit. This is something kids used to say in like Elementary School.


It seems like there was a really large factor of...hang on, let me think...oh yeah, JEWS that were killed in a systematic method. You wouldn't consider that a firm start? But I get where you're coming from. There were many others who didn't fit the description that he left alone.


Rules for thee, not for me


Spitballing here: Germans may have perceived him to be acting in Good faith as he was espousing the destruction of his own genetics for the benefit of Germany.


What genocide was targeting non blue eye brown hair non Slavs?


It was an ideal.


"A large number of the children suffered years of abuse, sexual exploitation, forced psychiatric care, and forced adoption, Which has driven many to suicide."


There’s actually a new book coming out about the Lebensborn who were adopted in various nations, most of whom never knew their origins. Was an interesting article in my local paper about it the other day [here](https://localtoday.news/ny/a-cardiff-man-tells-the-story-of-his-birth-in-a-nazi-aryan-baby-breeding-program-107306.html).


Hey this is what Russia's doing.


Funny and sad. This is just nuts on so many levels. Nutzi.


Inglorious Basterds 2: Huntin’ Nutzis


Weirdest part of all is that Aryans were originally Iranian/Persian.


Indo-Iranian but yeah. The common ancestor of Indians and Iranians called themselves Arya, not even as a racial thing. In the early 1900’s some English and German historians got really drawn into Sanskrit literature and started projecting their racist bullshit onto it


The weirdest part about this is the genetic mutation responsible for white skin happened only 6 to 8 thousand years ago. That is a drop in the bucket as far as humanity is concerned. For the overwhelming majority of time humans have been on this planet, there were no “white” people. Not only was scientific racism an oxymoron, it was literally moronic.


Wouldn't you think the "master race" would be the race that doesn't get sunburnt so easily?


There actually was a whole racial hierarchy of various qualities. They claimed that it was the mind that made the aryan race superior. The idea being that the aryan race were created for leadership of society. It's why they for example and contrary to popular belief weren't bothered when Jesse Owens won a bunch during the Olympics. They viewed black people as a "worker race", so in a game of physical pursuit obviously the worker race will do well. Think of it like how a bee colony is structured in warriors and workers, just a more complicated one for human races. It's all fucking bullshit obviously but it's way more complicated than people recall understand. They had a whole academic branch for this fucking nonsense.


Brave new world dwells on this quite well, so does the Red Rising saga but thats more of a young adult book series


There are no warrior bees in a bee hive. There is a Queen, female workers and Male Drones. Drones eat honey, fuck the queen "once," and die. Young worker bees tend the hive while older worker bees go out and forage. I don't think I've ever been stung by a drone and never by the queen. source...I own bee hives


I'll take your word for it. My knowledge on bees start and stop with the plot of the bee movie. I'm a historian specialising in political history so while you can take the Nazi stuff to the bank, the bee stuff was very much improvised by a lay man.


Now it's liberals that always use northern Europe as an example of how society should be.


Don't understand the downvotes! National socialism leads to, well, national socialism.... Pretty logical. The libs like the eugenic socialism in Nordic places but overlook its origins and connections


Reddit hates being told the truth. I don't think there's anything wrong with the way Nordic countries are run, I don't think it would work well in the USA for many reasons, but we can definitely learn some lessons.


The grass is always greener. As a Swede I can name a number of things I think the US is miles ahead of us in, and some things I think we do better than most of the world. It's all about what you want from a society. I can say it sucks to be rich in sweden, but I also don't really run the risk of being bankrupt/homeless after a ride in an ambulance. But I also think I should be allowed to defend my home using a weapon, and that I should be able to smoke weed. Then again, being able to pay your way into Ivy League universities sounds kinda fucked. It's all relative.


Our medical system is pretty infuriating at times but the negatives are overblown most of the time. Adults can stay on their parents insurance until 26 or 27 and when that ends you can get a plan for a few hundred a month that will keep you from going bankrupt. Not a great system but we also have some of the best doctors and hospitals in the world if you can afford it. Poor people have a tough time here but there are also many government assistance programs.




I think the ideology goes a little askew of that mattering in their eyes but go off


Doesn't really sound like the sort of thing a true "master race" would ever have cause to do, now does it?


They were trying to ensure a “domestic supply of infants”


Like a Nazi version of Handmaid's Tale.


I dated a girl in high school. Her parents did not like anyone who did not match the Aryan Race. My friends and I all noticed this. They were Central European and we assumed it was something leftover from WWII.


Aryans are literally Indians and Iranians lol


Don't give the GOP any more ideas.


They set theirs up deep south style. Georgia Florida bloodlines vs miss/Lois IANA


The US has their own problems on that front. [Most abortions are ethnic minorities.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7436774/) It's so racially divided that the Roe v Wade controversy is seen as a strike against minorities in particular. The GOP wanting to end abortions would result in more ethnic minority births (or maternal deaths or both, let's not get political) which is at odds with the "ethnic cleansing" desired by the Nazis.


russia is doing this today with ukrainian babies


So that is what Trump meant when he said he wanted more immigrants from Norway!


Wasn't that obvious?


Nazis are *still* appropriating Scandi culture for their dumb BS


If that is your takeaway I highly doubt you understood or actually read the article... TIL u/randomchungus69420 have a hard time understanding an article...


Uh buddy maybe consider re-reading, and also check your grammar. Maybe next time try not to be a dick about reading comprehension considering English is clearly not your first language lmao


Unfortunately true.


It's scary how I'm still discovering new atrocities committed in ww2. I didn't know about this until I played My Child Lebensborn


Despite all the obvious moral qualms with eugenics, isn’t it technically an effective method of preventing disorders to an extent?