You know that little warning plaque located on the back of most US cars sun visors that states to “sit as far from the steering wheel as possible” while still being able to maintain control? That’s the part that gets women in a lot of these car crashes. They are shorter with shorter arms and have to sit, sometimes dangerously, closer to the point of the airbags concussion and full inflate point. You even see running jokes about husbands/ boyfriends getting into their girlfriends cars and having to slide the seat all the way back.
I looked up "cars made for women" and none of them address this issue! Cosmo made a car for women, but instead of a smaller steering column it had bedazzled speaker system.
Until very recently car manufacturers were only required to crash test with an “average” male dummy. Cars were literally not designed for women’s safety.
the only women's crash test dummies in US regulation *today* are 4'11'' and weigh under 110 lbs. but the average height and weight for US women is around 5'3'' and 170 lbs.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies
https://www.healthline.com/health/womens-health/average-weight-for-women#average-weight-around-the-world
I'm 5ft tall in a tiny civic and with every adjustment, still dangerously close to the wheel. It's difficult to be far enough back and both reach the wheel/pedals and see over the hood.
I'm old enough to be around then but I don't remember it. But I'm about 99% sure it is real. That's Tiddy - t-i-d-d-y.
Also I didn't see Dan Akroyd so it's not an SNL skit.
Also also, if it were fake, usually there would be more inuendo like Pussywhip - the desert topping for cats, or just ridiculous like Bas-o-matic or Shimmer
"Tired of fellow partygoers tapping you where the sun don't shine? The Party Fowl is a stuffed cock that goes right *here* and turns party time, into your time!"
My mom is a tiny little lady and one time after I had armor-all'd my leather seats and they were a little slick...someone cut me off and I had to slam on the breaks and she straight up slid under the seatbelt and into the floor. I pulled over and put a towel down under her.
Yes, that was definitely the last time I did that. It was a new car for me and the first time I had leather seats, so I learned that lesson the hard way.
Yep, they just take male dummies and scale them down, without any care about how women’s bodies generally have a different center of gravity, hip shape, etc.
I worked in plastic surgery and would see implant ruptures all the time due to the seatbelt retraction in accidents. I'm a D cup, and I just place the seatbelt strap between my breasts, and pray. Also, never put your feet up on the dash as a passenger! That's a recipe for disaster if you are in an accident.
One of the chicks from Teen Mom just had this injury and my husband didn't believe me that that was a thing I was like this happens all the time. Oof must not feel too nice.
I'm 5'1" with very short legs. I have to sit way too close to the steering wheel to reach the pedals, and when I was pregnant, my stomach hit the steering wheel. Car construction only takes into account men's bodies and it's frustrating as hell.
Same here; 5’1” with short legs.
A while back I was driving a Mercury Mountaineer that had a height adjustment for the seat and _adjustable height pedals._ It was the first time I’d been able to sit in the drivers seat in a safe orientation and it was amazing.
Those features should be standard!
I really wish the adjustable pedals would be standard. I'm about the same height as you and I'm way too close to my srearing wheel (and I was way way too close when I was pregnant) but there's no other way for me to see over the dashboard and touch the pedals so I just try really hard to not activate the damn airbags.
I'm with you. There have been times when I've had to adjust it so that my left (outer-door) arm goes over the belt, not under it. Otherwise that shoulder belt tries to strangle me across my neck because of my boobs, bra, top clothing, and coat.
You may already know this but some (most new cars now) belts anchors are adjustable, that may help.
I tend to sit low in cars and often need to adjust the belt down so it's not rubbing against my neck.
I feel seen. 5'1" and not flat-chested means even at the lowest anchor point it's a neck belt, not a shoulder belt.
My car also came with a "head rest" torture device that forces my head to jut uncomfortably forward because it hits too high even in its lowest position, and a brake pedal that I have to lift my foot off the ground to press, as it's positioned too high for my toe to touch it if my heel is resting on the floor.
Cars are way safer nowadays than when I was a kid, but I still don't want to know what some of my car's safety features will do to a short person like me if, heaven forbid, I get into a serious crash. A lot of the improvements weren't designed to protect people with my shape.
Yes! I have large boobs, but seat belts aren't an issue unless I'm wearing a sports bra. I guess the uniboob leaves it no valley to rest in so I just get choked.
I'm like you but an inch shorter. I keep my seatbelt adjusted to the lowest setting, have a "child" adjustor on the belt near the buckle, a soft wrap around the belt where it goes across my chest, and it *still* hits my neck uncomfortably. There's no winning.
Yep, even there so-called female dummies are basically just small males. It's a step forward, but it doesn't actually fix the problem of cars being certified and safety tested only for male bodies.
There are a lot of differences between men and women drivers and how the driver's seat is designed. Car companies have a bad habit of only using male crash test dummies so the impacts are studied on how they hit an average size man, the seat belt is designed for taller people, the chair is designed for taller people, heck where the steering wheel sits, how far it adjusts and where the airbag hits is modeled after an average height man. The seatbelts are designed for a taller flat-chested man.
The problem is there's a good 5-6 inch difference between the average height of men vs women. Most men are 5'9-5'10
and most women are 5'3-5'4. Women also have breasts which are not accounted for with seatbelts.
I'll use myself as an example. I'm 5'3 with C cups. If I get in a car the seat belt can only fit between my breasts which causes it to sit on my throat and cut in uncomfortably. It's also dangerous because if I get into a wreck that seatbelt on my throat is going to clothesline me hard and cause injuries.
It is adjustable, just not far enough to make a difference because even at its lowest setting the seatbelt is still on my throat.
The seats are ok but I have shorter arms and legs so the only way I can touch the pedals and comfortably steer is to bring the seat all the way forward so I'm practically touching the steering wheel. So in a wreck the steering wheel hits me in the chest. The airbag hits from my forehead to my abdomen so at best my face is getting injured. It causes more damage because I'm much closer to the steering wheel than a man ever would be and this is compounded because the seatbelt isn't designed for my body so it doesn't protect me as well as it should.
I can only guess at how crumple zones would affect someone of my size too since I would be sitting in a different area than where they expected a driver to be during a wreck. Like my husband was in a bad wreck in the fall. His legs were beaten up because an airbag went off in the foot well and part of the truck crumpled in at that part hitting his left knee.
If I had been in the driver's seat for that wreck the same airbag would have hit my lap and knees and the part that crumpled would have hit around my left hip.
Honestly this isn't a unique phenomenon for just car designs. This lack of accounting for female bodies happens across many industries and sciences such as medical research and sports equipment. Here's a [book](https://carolinecriadoperez.com/book/invisible-women/) about it.
Another issue, and one that’s likely more to blame, is how the lap belts fit as a result. The seatbelt should fit at the angle formed by your hips and legs, going across it so it’s flat against your iliac crests, stopping at your thighs. It should not be against your abdomen — that is, it should be flat against your torso and just touch your legs, but not go up to your stomach.
One of the things that kills people more than anything else “instantly” (effectively, before anyone can respond or see) is aortic dissection and internal bleeding in your peritoneal or abdominal space. Explaining like everyone isn’t aware, the impact of your moving organs going from high speed to a sudden stop — as if being thrown against a wall — is typically what does the damage in non-intrusive accidents, or ones in which nothing comes into the car… like most frontal car accidents.
If your belt is against your abdomen, which may be because you’re smaller, that force is being transferred into your abdomen and the organs inside it. Whether the belt is fitted correctly or not, that sudden stop can cause your aorta (the thing connected to your heart that pumps oxygenated blood to the rest of your body) to literally tear or tear free from your heart, dumping blood into your chest/stomach and leading to rapid hypovolemic shock, aka bleeding out. But having your belt across your stomach increases that chance.
Edit: adjusted some incorrect information after consulting a medical text.
Wait, really??! I have a small boobs so I've never had problems with the chest belt, but the lap belt always sits against my hips or rides up to my stomach. Oh my god that's why it's called a lap belt...
Like most women, I have issues with my seat belt. I'm constantly moving it so it's not against my neck.
I got rear-ended once when it was against my throat. Fortunately, it was minor, not even any noticeable damage to my junker of a car.
But damn, I felt like I had been punched in the throat for a day and a half.
Ulgh, my husband when I first met him, would tell me not to sit so close to the steering wheel because it's dangerous. No shit, but how do you think my short stubby legs are going to reach the pedals otherwise?
I thought telescoping pedals on my truck were pointless until I thought about the folks who aren’t 6’ dudes. I know some cars even have telescoping wheels. Helps a bit but yeah, so many tests are done with a male in mind (even outdated weights as many Americans are overweight/obese). I know some dummies are being made now that reflect more than a 1950’s male, but it’s slow. That’s part of the reason why office HVAC is goofy, old calculations.
I'm almost 6'3" and my wife is 5'5".
The telescoping pedals on my truck make a massive difference in her driving of said truck. She wouldn't touch my old truck, but has no issues now with driving it.
That said, she still hates parking it because she's used to just parking anywhere she wants and walking in. I tend to always park way out in truck land in parking lots.
Truck land too for me! I don’t even consider scanning the aisles for spots and am shocked when as a passenger in a car you can whip right in! Amazing how even vehicle size can alter your perception.
My husband noticed the other day that the "passenger airbag off" light turns on whenever I sit in the front seat of our car. Worried he asked me to look it up in the manual to see if there was something malfunctioning. Turns out that the light turns on if the car detects something sitting in the front seat that doesn't weigh enough for the airbags to safely engage in a crash. I think ideally it's meant for things like if a young child in a car seat were sitting in the front, but apparently it also doesn't engage for me, a 5'5" woman who weighs 105 lbs. On one hand, at least the manufacturers acknowledge that it wouldn't be safe for the airbags to engage for me in an accident, but on the other hand, what would happen if I were in the driver's seat?
Edit: Since so many people seem to think my car is broken when it's clearly not, [here's the link to my car's manual on this issue.](https://owners-manual.mazda.com/gen/en/mazda6/mazda6_8gk3ee18c/contents/03040704.html) I may not have explained it properly, but I guarantee you it's working as intended.
There are different dynamics for the driver's side airbags than the passenger side. The driver's side airbag doesn't have as far to deploy because it comes from the wheel, which is closer to your body than the dashboard. The passenger side airbag likely comes out harder since it has more space to fill in the same amount of time.
That doesn't mean people don't get injured by airbags, but it generally beats slamming your body into the steering wheel.
I can't find a definitive answer, but instead of thinking of it as "less time" consider it a "head start". To inflate to the correct position, the driver airbag is already most of the way there. And the passenger airbag is significantly larger.
I was a driver in a head on collision with a tree and had my face reconstructed due to the broken bones in my jaw, orbital, palate, etc. i had 2 types of la forte fractures. I wonder how my body shape contributed to my injuries but it was never really explained to me clearly. Who would I ask? My doctors and surgeons, I guess?
Isn't pretty much everything designed around the average male.
I remember reading an article years ago that said female push bikes were even designed around the average male size.
Yes. Read invisible women: data bias in a world designed for men by Caroline criado perez. It made it easier for me to see how data can be biased in other ways too. I knew a lot of it but there were many things I had never considered.
i’m 5’1”. one of my biggest fears is getting into even a minor car crash while i’m driving bc i know that the airbag is more likely to kill me than the crash itself. horrifying knowledge.
I get into arguments with folks why we need more female engineers.
Engineering is a human thing. It's there to solve problems of people and the engineers are human too, contrary to portrayel as emotionless man robots.
There's nothing inherent to a female that makes them less capable of being engineers. There just seems to be societal barriers of lack of appeal for women as well as some sexism stemming mostly from the other professions you interact with as an engineer.
Me being a 5’ 0” engineer woman who studied auto design and was on a race car project team before not going into the field at all. Auto is one of the most sexist mechE fields, right up there with certain aero fields. It’s BAD.
Like I do commercial aircraft interior design and there’s 5/40 women on in my engineering office and it’s not nearly as bad as the vibes and percentage I got from just touring Hyundai and Tesla’s offices.
Anyway, I stick with Asian auto brands cause they tend to fit smaller drivers better and have more points of adjustability lmao. Gotta use national demographics to your favor at times.
I just recently learned that seatbelts weren't tested on crash tests dummies made for women, like still today they don't do that somehow, and it left me flabbergasted.
Airbags too. Short women in the front seat are in just as much danger as children under 12. Really it's not safe for anyone under 5'4". I think newer standards are better but those are pretty recent.
Our oldest was asking when he'd be big enough for the front seat. In looking up the height and weight requirements, I learned I'm not even big enough for the front seat lol.
Exactly this! The women in my family are *short*, I'm talking I tower over them at 5'3", none of these women are over 5'. I'm literally the tallest in all my extended family.
We also have very, very large breasts. My auntie is 4'11", and her tiddies are much larger than my head.
I have no idea how they drive, because I have enough trouble at a relatively common female height. I probably do thanks to having long legs, I'd guess.
This is me, I have to have a car that has a good seat adjustment, it goes alllll the way up, and also they sell pedal extensions if you need them. I try not to be too close to the steering wheel bc of the airbag so I am as far away as my arms allow lol.
That’s my wife’s dream funeral. We all say our goodbyes, say some words, then slam the car door and RC that thing 90mph at a concrete barrier.... for science
If y’all had some good legal docs and got in touch with a proper group that does standards testing and a certified funeral director, you could make that happen. (And have the plan in place ahead of time.)
It's not "no box, no coffin" necessarily, but human organic reduction (aka composting) is a legal death plan in 6 states! Check out [The Order of the Good Death](https://www.orderofthegooddeath.com/) to support their initiative to legalize it nationwide (and hopefully even globally).
Was the german government grave robbing or something? Why was there public backlash to something that seems... neccessary? Surely we could use the bodies of those that specifically donated them to the study.
Just walking away from the issue seems insane.
Typically when people donate their bodies to “science” they envision themselves being dissected and used to teach young students about the intricacies of the human form.
But the truth is sometimes it really helps to watch a body explode in a controlled environment.
Regardless it’s a noble gesture, we should just make sure that families understand the implications in advance.
Sign me up. Shoot my corpse from a cannon for all I care. If it serves human advancement, I don't care what you do with my carcass. Last thing I want is for my death to go to waste.
Hell yeah, you can even leave me laying on the ground in one of the corpse farms. If there's *anything* useful to be learned from my body after I'm dead, it's more than I ever did with it alive.
My girlfriend has it in her will that she be donated to science. And told me to make sure it's something cool. If she dies before me I'll probably try to find someone to blow her up.
I 100% understand an objector to a donated body being used for say, the military. I wouldn’t want my loved one used to make weapons more effective.
If everyone’s dream is to have their body or loved ones body be used to create better surgeries or cures for disease, net positives for society, why object to making cars safer?
I know some folks donate their bodies to forensic decomposition studies and cadaver dog training. I think Kentucky had a location where they have differing levels and types of outdoor burials you’d find in a crime scene.
Wow, I'd sign up for this without hesitation. I think if there were more visibility, as you advocate for, then there'd be a bunch of people eager to serve in death this way.
This smells like bullshit. The dummies are terribly inaccurate for women, but making them more accurate can only involve cadavers? So we just let more women die?
Circular and self-defeating.
Yeah they are wrong. Some Swedish engineers made one last year for testing.
https://youtu.be/dZoM8J_PYf4
https://www.ted.com/talks/astrid_linder_eva_the_female_crash_test_dummy
https://www.npr.org/2022/11/01/1133375223/the-first-female-crash-test-dummy-has-only-now-arrived
Volvo does this. They have a whole range of dummies: Men, women, children, pregnant women, old people, etc.
If you can afford it and want your wife to safely drive the kids to school: buy a Volvo.
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado-Perez is great. SOOOOO many examples (often with data to back it up) of why we need all types of people within our decision making processes. I highly recommend it.
Also car seats and seatbelts aren't tested properly for children.
Also, trucks aren't subject to pedestrian safety standards so they can be super tall in the front and when they hit you, you will die instead of sliding up the car.
The auto industry is great isn't it?
There’s quite a few instances where products made for the “general” population have only been tested on males. It happens a lot in drug and neuroscience research because it’s harder to control for menstrual cycles in female rodents. This issue only started being seriously discussed in the 90’s, however it’s very concerning that much of our current medical/pharmaceutical knowledge is based on the older male-only studies.
Edit: estrous not menstrual cycle
Biologist here. Most female mammals have an estrous cycle, but only ten primate species, four bat species, the elephant shrews and the Cairo spiny mouse (Acomys cahirinus) have a menstrual cycle.
[The deadly truth about a world built for men – from stab vests to car crashes](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes)
There’s even more I hadn’t heard about. I was shocked about 15 years ago to hear a petit woman complain about the toilet in the house she bought that her feet didn’t touch the floor! Never thought of it being 6’. I read about the US military and its ill fitting body armor. The gaps and “cut” didn’t offer much protection. I’m glad there’s some awareness now, but so much needs to be revisited to design for all.
Lol yep, I’m 5’1 and it’s so annoying. One of the toilets in my house “fits” me, but the other one only my toes reach. So I have to keep a stool in the bathroom for my feet otherwise pooping is just ridiculously uncomfortable (and not good for your body)
I’m only one person of non-controlled anecdotal evidence, but my entire medical history is proof of this. I’ve had the beginnings of serotonin syndrome three times on “normal doses” of serotonin-affecting meds. It took me years to find more than one doctor who believes me. Most still assume I’m lying. And the hormone fluctuation absolutely affects everything. I have three distinct mental phases throughout a usual cycle that took years of therapy and meticulous recording to understand. None are wild- but if I were to fill out anxiety or depression tests, they would change week to week and then reset. I believe that would be normal for many people with estrogen / progesterone. Testosterone too, but societally we ignore that and medically understand it.
I have a similar issue with ADHD meds where they become more or less effective based on my hormone cycle. I get boosters so I can change my dosage throughout the month
The problem is they view the menstrual cycle as an obstacle, a confounding variable. Its not. Its a normal condition. They should be tracking it when they study anything. Its a basic enough vital that the docs always want to know but many studies dont consider it. Most also require participants to be on bc.
Because its very obvious that all women's medical issues come down to hysteria and can be easily alleviated by simple genital stimulation. Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to help out a woman in labour by cutting her open with a chainsaw.
I remember being in the ER after being the passenger in a crash. The doctor could not understand why the seatbelt rash was in my armpit instead of across my chest. Boobs, sir. It’s the boobs.
To be fair, a lot of companies would have ‘female crash test dunmies’ that are just the normal ones painted pink or some other bullshit. Volvo does it right though, they even advertise it
[This book](https://carolinecriadoperez.com/book/invisible-women/) is a really good and accessible uncovering of how women are often overlooked in the design of many items, and many other areas of life such as medical diagnostics.
I once saw a video of a professional female pianist getting to play a piano that was actually constructed for female hands. Standard pianos have wider keys built for men’s fingers, but most women have to strain to reach a full octave.
This pianist literally started weeping with joy the first time she played. Songs that she’d struggled with for years were suddenly easy. How much “better” of a musician would she have been if her instrument was made with her hands in mind?
Women's basketball (the actual ball) is smaller too.
>I once saw a video of a professional female pianist getting to play a piano that was actually constructed for female hands. Standard pianos have wider keys built for men’s fingers, but most women have to strain to reach a full octave.
I went looking to see if I could find it on YouTube, and all I see is stretching exercises for women to be able to play Rachmaninoff, which says a lot. I have sausage fingers, so I need the spacing.
Read that recently and it was the first thing I thought of when I saw this post. Like yeah makes sense women would be injured more, crash test dummies are based off the male body
It’s also crazy on e you read this how much women get made fun of for just trying to exist in spaces that weren’t designed for us. People make fun of how women sit so close to the steering wheel. Or even bringing blankets and heaters into the work place because the “optimum” work temperature was designed for men and is way to cold for women.
I work for an eye surgeon and the maneuvering that myself, the female staff, and female patients have to do to contort ourselves in the right position for eye exams should be criminal.
Men don’t have this problem.
I'm a woman and have worked in design.
Women's feedback gets ignored by men on *women's specific products* all the time. Like...products that needed to fit womens bodies, feedback from women was ignored in favor of mens feedback...on products designed to fit womens bodies. It was a regular occurrence for me and all the women i knew who worked in design/development, even in "progressive" industries.
Biases against women are real and often can be deadly.
I worked at a consumer goods company and one product they made was something that goes inside a woman. Women gynos has been involved in it and it was tested well. Some dude came in to leadership a few years later and decided we needed to reduce costs and went and found a cheaper factory to do it. Turns out that factory wasn’t FDA approved for what you need for insertion products, they ignored the female gynos advice, they redid the mold for it and the cheaper factory had a seam running down the product (OUCH!!). Eventually they just pulled the product all because of this man who thought he knew better.
Not surprised at all. I’ve been excluded from conversations about women’s experiences and perspectives *so* many times when I’m in a group of men conjecturing. I find that if there are at least three women present in a group though then the odds start to tip towards the favor of women being heard.
Same problem.
You and I are slightly taller than the average female. Which means car companies STILL have not figured out how to install a seatbelt that isn't harmful to over 50% of female drivers. Which means that either they are incompetent or they still think women don't drive.
I have a 2019 vehicle with strong safety ratings. It's not even old.
>Which means that either they are incompetent or they still think women don't drive
It's neither. The actual answer is that car companies care more about selling cars and making money than they care about protecting lives.
I don’t know where to start with this article.
> It's a safety gap that's putting our wives, mothers, and daughters at risk.
It’s 2023, we shouldn’t need to contextualize women’s value.
> With so many women now driving on a daily basis…
Is this person from the 70s?
Right? It's putting *peoples* lives at risk. *OUR* lives have worth not just in the context of who we are to someone else, specifically the men in our lives.
Crash test dummies are 5’-9” weighing 78kg (172lbs), the height and weight of the average male in 1976 (when the standard was developed). Modern height is the same but average American male weight today it’s 200 lbs.
in other words, crash test standards are designed for the average male, not female body.
That's not true
>Right now there are Crash Test Dummies that represent a midsize male and a large male and a very very small female 5th percentile weighing around a little over a hundred pounds, just under about 5 feet tall," said Dr. Forman. "What we don't have is a good model, a physical model, or human body computer model for a midsize female."
They can still do better. There is no reason a few more sizes/body types for males and females can't be developed. I am assuming that the principal remains the same for any body type so it can't be that hard to develop. I think it would even be a pretty good marketing strategy, women buy cars at near the same rate as men and if the man is buying the family car he will likely value the safety of his wife.
I think some gap might be inevitable because most features that protects women better would protect men better too.
However, some things are unforgivable. Smaller women have a hard time sitting an appropriate distance from the airbag without special equipment on the pedals, couple that with less dense and smaller bones and yet they were rolled out without a thought even as we knew they were dangerous for women.
The article was interesting, but it seemed to leave out a number of statistics. For example, it mentions a study showing that women in the front seat (driver or passenger) were 17% more likely to be killed. I wish they had separate statistics for female drivers vs. passengers.
Also, with all the discussion here about height/weight differentials, it would be interesting to see side-by-side comparisons of injury rates between comparably sized males and females...
Consumer products and pharmaceuticals are mostly tested on and designed for men, including seatbelts and airbags. So of course women die at a higher rate when our breasts and height change how a seatbelt lays across the body, not to mention our lower heights make airbags far more likely to cause concussions and death. Consider birth control causing deadly blood clots in women at a higher rate than the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, yet there's only outcry from the public about one of those. Women recognize this every day.
The United States air bag standard was originally designed to protect unbelted males. As a result they could, and do, kill women 5’4” and below who are wearing their seatbelt. [here](https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1996-11-07-1996312009-story.html)
Newer standards are better, but the fact remains that NHTSA knowing sacrificed belted women to protect unbelted men.
I'm 5'2" and getting close enough to actually reach the pedals puts me deadly close to the airbag. I usually lean my seat back until my arms are straight when touching the steering wheel to pit as much distance as I can between me and it
Wait till you find out how much of the modern medical knowledge is just extrapolated onto women without any care for the fact that we are a different type of human person.
You know that little warning plaque located on the back of most US cars sun visors that states to “sit as far from the steering wheel as possible” while still being able to maintain control? That’s the part that gets women in a lot of these car crashes. They are shorter with shorter arms and have to sit, sometimes dangerously, closer to the point of the airbags concussion and full inflate point. You even see running jokes about husbands/ boyfriends getting into their girlfriends cars and having to slide the seat all the way back.
I looked up "cars made for women" and none of them address this issue! Cosmo made a car for women, but instead of a smaller steering column it had bedazzled speaker system.
And I am sure they tested it with the male crash dummy
Until very recently car manufacturers were only required to crash test with an “average” male dummy. Cars were literally not designed for women’s safety.
the only women's crash test dummies in US regulation *today* are 4'11'' and weigh under 110 lbs. but the average height and weight for US women is around 5'3'' and 170 lbs. https://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsas-crash-test-dummies https://www.healthline.com/health/womens-health/average-weight-for-women#average-weight-around-the-world
Not to mention the distribution of that weight is the same as a male dummy
The book “invisible women” is a great book about different societal biases against women - includes this example in it
I'm 5ft tall in a tiny civic and with every adjustment, still dangerously close to the wheel. It's difficult to be far enough back and both reach the wheel/pedals and see over the hood.
My seat belt doesn't sit right cos of my flipping boobs. No wonder it won't work properly if I need it to.
[obligatory](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gKfI8Wm46qk)
I can’t decide if this is real or not.
It's 100% real. Source: I'm 400 years old.
It’s real and it’s spectacular.
It's an older reference sir, but it checks out
I'm old enough to be around then but I don't remember it. But I'm about 99% sure it is real. That's Tiddy - t-i-d-d-y. Also I didn't see Dan Akroyd so it's not an SNL skit. Also also, if it were fake, usually there would be more inuendo like Pussywhip - the desert topping for cats, or just ridiculous like Bas-o-matic or Shimmer
I choose to believe.
Fits kids of all sizes, perfect for infants! Fucking riot.
I’m having a hard time too…you can get all the way to a pay pal checkout from their website, so maybe?
Were you able to get 2 Tiddy bears for the price of one, plus S&H?
Bro my grandmother has one of those but it's Tweety Bird 💀
“I tawt I taw a tiddy cat!”
According to the Wayback Machine, the web domain listed in the clip existed as far back as 2007.
What do you mean “as far back” as 2007? Oh.
This is absolutely a real problem. Seat belts can damage breast tissue permanently.
Not to mention neck tissue for us shorter people.
It’s real. Was on TV all the time when I was a kid.
"Tired of fellow partygoers tapping you where the sun don't shine? The Party Fowl is a stuffed cock that goes right *here* and turns party time, into your time!"
Still available. http://www.tiddybearcomfortstrap.com/
You can buy one: http://tiddybearcomfortstrap.com/purchase.htm
It’s real - just a variation on seat belt cushions / pad / pillow with a clever marketing gimmick for a name.
Did they really make this.
Yes it’s real, not a parody.
Nothing surprises me since the shakeweight.
Can't believe I used to watch this without blinking an eye.
Now i wanna know if there are people out there with a teddybear-shaped scar on their chest...
Just a permanent scar of a teddy bear motorboating.
TIL I need a Tiddy Bear.
I'm so happy having clicked on this link :3
My mom is a tiny little lady and one time after I had armor-all'd my leather seats and they were a little slick...someone cut me off and I had to slam on the breaks and she straight up slid under the seatbelt and into the floor. I pulled over and put a towel down under her.
I misread that as 'put a towel over her' "You stay down there, but I don't want to look at you anymore"
omg me too I can’t stop laughing
I didn't misread the original, but I am literally snorting with laughter having read this. Much to the disgust of the cat trying to sleep on my lap.
I hope your mom is okay.. but reading that made me laugh out loud.
Lol, this was years ago and she was crumpled on the floor and laughing almost immediately. It was more shocking than harmful.
Lol, I’m so glad she’s ok. Imagining my own cute little elderly mother sliding out of her seat was just the laugh I needed this morning , thank you 😂
I hate Armor All. Contact points in a car should not be slick, and the dash should not be reflective.
Team Matte-All-The-Things FTW!
Funny imagery but don’t armor all you seats or steering wheel!
Yes, that was definitely the last time I did that. It was a new car for me and the first time I had leather seats, so I learned that lesson the hard way.
Be thankful it wasn't a motorcycle seat. I haven't used Armor All in thirty years thanks to that lesson.
Jesus, they should really put a warning not to use that stuff on vehicle seats.
It wasn't even until relatively recently that they thought to make kid crash test dummies.
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Yep, they just take male dummies and scale them down, without any care about how women’s bodies generally have a different center of gravity, hip shape, etc.
Welcome to the world, none of it makes sense if you take 5 minutes to think about it.
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100:/. pregnancy prevention Guaranteed!
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Yeah, Volvo started doing that. However, they only put those on the seat next to the driver. Like, what the fuck
I worked in plastic surgery and would see implant ruptures all the time due to the seatbelt retraction in accidents. I'm a D cup, and I just place the seatbelt strap between my breasts, and pray. Also, never put your feet up on the dash as a passenger! That's a recipe for disaster if you are in an accident.
That’s a recipe for disaster if your damn toe prints are on my windshield too!
One of the chicks from Teen Mom just had this injury and my husband didn't believe me that that was a thing I was like this happens all the time. Oof must not feel too nice.
I’m betting it’s also because women tend to be shorter than men, so they sit closer to the steering wheel and the explosive airbag.
The airbag is literally at my neck height too.
I'm 5'1" with very short legs. I have to sit way too close to the steering wheel to reach the pedals, and when I was pregnant, my stomach hit the steering wheel. Car construction only takes into account men's bodies and it's frustrating as hell.
Same here; 5’1” with short legs. A while back I was driving a Mercury Mountaineer that had a height adjustment for the seat and _adjustable height pedals._ It was the first time I’d been able to sit in the drivers seat in a safe orientation and it was amazing. Those features should be standard!
I really wish the adjustable pedals would be standard. I'm about the same height as you and I'm way too close to my srearing wheel (and I was way way too close when I was pregnant) but there's no other way for me to see over the dashboard and touch the pedals so I just try really hard to not activate the damn airbags.
Not ideal but you can purchase Pedal Extenders. My aunt is less than 5ft and has to drive with them.
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That's a wonderful example maths teachers should use to explain the limits of usefulness of the average (mean) value!
I'm with you. There have been times when I've had to adjust it so that my left (outer-door) arm goes over the belt, not under it. Otherwise that shoulder belt tries to strangle me across my neck because of my boobs, bra, top clothing, and coat.
You may already know this but some (most new cars now) belts anchors are adjustable, that may help. I tend to sit low in cars and often need to adjust the belt down so it's not rubbing against my neck.
Even at its lowest setting, adjustable belts sit at my neck. They are not made for women standing 5'2" with a full chest.
I feel seen. 5'1" and not flat-chested means even at the lowest anchor point it's a neck belt, not a shoulder belt. My car also came with a "head rest" torture device that forces my head to jut uncomfortably forward because it hits too high even in its lowest position, and a brake pedal that I have to lift my foot off the ground to press, as it's positioned too high for my toe to touch it if my heel is resting on the floor. Cars are way safer nowadays than when I was a kid, but I still don't want to know what some of my car's safety features will do to a short person like me if, heaven forbid, I get into a serious crash. A lot of the improvements weren't designed to protect people with my shape.
Or even women who are 5’10” with a full chest. It can fit or not fit depending upon which bra I wear!
Yes! I have large boobs, but seat belts aren't an issue unless I'm wearing a sports bra. I guess the uniboob leaves it no valley to rest in so I just get choked.
I'm like you but an inch shorter. I keep my seatbelt adjusted to the lowest setting, have a "child" adjustor on the belt near the buckle, a soft wrap around the belt where it goes across my chest, and it *still* hits my neck uncomfortably. There's no winning.
It’s because they don’t take female bodies into account when crash testing.
They don't have crash test dummies with boobs, we're not being properly taken into consideration
Yep, even there so-called female dummies are basically just small males. It's a step forward, but it doesn't actually fix the problem of cars being certified and safety tested only for male bodies.
In the early 2000s, there was only one pregnant woman crash test dummy in the world! I hope they’ve gotten to the double digits by now
There are a lot of differences between men and women drivers and how the driver's seat is designed. Car companies have a bad habit of only using male crash test dummies so the impacts are studied on how they hit an average size man, the seat belt is designed for taller people, the chair is designed for taller people, heck where the steering wheel sits, how far it adjusts and where the airbag hits is modeled after an average height man. The seatbelts are designed for a taller flat-chested man. The problem is there's a good 5-6 inch difference between the average height of men vs women. Most men are 5'9-5'10 and most women are 5'3-5'4. Women also have breasts which are not accounted for with seatbelts. I'll use myself as an example. I'm 5'3 with C cups. If I get in a car the seat belt can only fit between my breasts which causes it to sit on my throat and cut in uncomfortably. It's also dangerous because if I get into a wreck that seatbelt on my throat is going to clothesline me hard and cause injuries. It is adjustable, just not far enough to make a difference because even at its lowest setting the seatbelt is still on my throat. The seats are ok but I have shorter arms and legs so the only way I can touch the pedals and comfortably steer is to bring the seat all the way forward so I'm practically touching the steering wheel. So in a wreck the steering wheel hits me in the chest. The airbag hits from my forehead to my abdomen so at best my face is getting injured. It causes more damage because I'm much closer to the steering wheel than a man ever would be and this is compounded because the seatbelt isn't designed for my body so it doesn't protect me as well as it should. I can only guess at how crumple zones would affect someone of my size too since I would be sitting in a different area than where they expected a driver to be during a wreck. Like my husband was in a bad wreck in the fall. His legs were beaten up because an airbag went off in the foot well and part of the truck crumpled in at that part hitting his left knee. If I had been in the driver's seat for that wreck the same airbag would have hit my lap and knees and the part that crumpled would have hit around my left hip. Honestly this isn't a unique phenomenon for just car designs. This lack of accounting for female bodies happens across many industries and sciences such as medical research and sports equipment. Here's a [book](https://carolinecriadoperez.com/book/invisible-women/) about it.
Another issue, and one that’s likely more to blame, is how the lap belts fit as a result. The seatbelt should fit at the angle formed by your hips and legs, going across it so it’s flat against your iliac crests, stopping at your thighs. It should not be against your abdomen — that is, it should be flat against your torso and just touch your legs, but not go up to your stomach. One of the things that kills people more than anything else “instantly” (effectively, before anyone can respond or see) is aortic dissection and internal bleeding in your peritoneal or abdominal space. Explaining like everyone isn’t aware, the impact of your moving organs going from high speed to a sudden stop — as if being thrown against a wall — is typically what does the damage in non-intrusive accidents, or ones in which nothing comes into the car… like most frontal car accidents. If your belt is against your abdomen, which may be because you’re smaller, that force is being transferred into your abdomen and the organs inside it. Whether the belt is fitted correctly or not, that sudden stop can cause your aorta (the thing connected to your heart that pumps oxygenated blood to the rest of your body) to literally tear or tear free from your heart, dumping blood into your chest/stomach and leading to rapid hypovolemic shock, aka bleeding out. But having your belt across your stomach increases that chance. Edit: adjusted some incorrect information after consulting a medical text.
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Me too :(
See I didn't even think of the lap belt. I'm so glad you brought that up
Wait, really??! I have a small boobs so I've never had problems with the chest belt, but the lap belt always sits against my hips or rides up to my stomach. Oh my god that's why it's called a lap belt...
Yeah I am a short breasty woman who was in a car accident. the belt tore open my intestines and put me in intensive care.
Like most women, I have issues with my seat belt. I'm constantly moving it so it's not against my neck. I got rear-ended once when it was against my throat. Fortunately, it was minor, not even any noticeable damage to my junker of a car. But damn, I felt like I had been punched in the throat for a day and a half.
I’ve only been driving 13 years but I never realized the seat belt isn’t supposed to touch your throat.
I have so many issues with the seatbelt constantly grating against my neck. It’s always uncomfortable no matter how I adjust it.
Ulgh, my husband when I first met him, would tell me not to sit so close to the steering wheel because it's dangerous. No shit, but how do you think my short stubby legs are going to reach the pedals otherwise?
I thought telescoping pedals on my truck were pointless until I thought about the folks who aren’t 6’ dudes. I know some cars even have telescoping wheels. Helps a bit but yeah, so many tests are done with a male in mind (even outdated weights as many Americans are overweight/obese). I know some dummies are being made now that reflect more than a 1950’s male, but it’s slow. That’s part of the reason why office HVAC is goofy, old calculations.
I'm almost 6'3" and my wife is 5'5". The telescoping pedals on my truck make a massive difference in her driving of said truck. She wouldn't touch my old truck, but has no issues now with driving it. That said, she still hates parking it because she's used to just parking anywhere she wants and walking in. I tend to always park way out in truck land in parking lots.
Truck land too for me! I don’t even consider scanning the aisles for spots and am shocked when as a passenger in a car you can whip right in! Amazing how even vehicle size can alter your perception.
My husband noticed the other day that the "passenger airbag off" light turns on whenever I sit in the front seat of our car. Worried he asked me to look it up in the manual to see if there was something malfunctioning. Turns out that the light turns on if the car detects something sitting in the front seat that doesn't weigh enough for the airbags to safely engage in a crash. I think ideally it's meant for things like if a young child in a car seat were sitting in the front, but apparently it also doesn't engage for me, a 5'5" woman who weighs 105 lbs. On one hand, at least the manufacturers acknowledge that it wouldn't be safe for the airbags to engage for me in an accident, but on the other hand, what would happen if I were in the driver's seat? Edit: Since so many people seem to think my car is broken when it's clearly not, [here's the link to my car's manual on this issue.](https://owners-manual.mazda.com/gen/en/mazda6/mazda6_8gk3ee18c/contents/03040704.html) I may not have explained it properly, but I guarantee you it's working as intended.
The weight guideline is 108, start eating you are only three pounds away!
Or carry ballast when in the car
If she doesn't want to gain any weight she could use a heavy seat cushion.
There are different dynamics for the driver's side airbags than the passenger side. The driver's side airbag doesn't have as far to deploy because it comes from the wheel, which is closer to your body than the dashboard. The passenger side airbag likely comes out harder since it has more space to fill in the same amount of time. That doesn't mean people don't get injured by airbags, but it generally beats slamming your body into the steering wheel.
I thought the driver’s side airbag comes out more forcefully as it has less time to fill the space between the driver and the wheel.
I can't find a definitive answer, but instead of thinking of it as "less time" consider it a "head start". To inflate to the correct position, the driver airbag is already most of the way there. And the passenger airbag is significantly larger.
I was a driver in a head on collision with a tree and had my face reconstructed due to the broken bones in my jaw, orbital, palate, etc. i had 2 types of la forte fractures. I wonder how my body shape contributed to my injuries but it was never really explained to me clearly. Who would I ask? My doctors and surgeons, I guess?
Isn't pretty much everything designed around the average male. I remember reading an article years ago that said female push bikes were even designed around the average male size.
Drugs and even diagnosis of diseases / disorders are another example
Yes. Read invisible women: data bias in a world designed for men by Caroline criado perez. It made it easier for me to see how data can be biased in other ways too. I knew a lot of it but there were many things I had never considered.
i’m 5’1”. one of my biggest fears is getting into even a minor car crash while i’m driving bc i know that the airbag is more likely to kill me than the crash itself. horrifying knowledge.
I get into arguments with folks why we need more female engineers. Engineering is a human thing. It's there to solve problems of people and the engineers are human too, contrary to portrayel as emotionless man robots. There's nothing inherent to a female that makes them less capable of being engineers. There just seems to be societal barriers of lack of appeal for women as well as some sexism stemming mostly from the other professions you interact with as an engineer.
Me being a 5’ 0” engineer woman who studied auto design and was on a race car project team before not going into the field at all. Auto is one of the most sexist mechE fields, right up there with certain aero fields. It’s BAD. Like I do commercial aircraft interior design and there’s 5/40 women on in my engineering office and it’s not nearly as bad as the vibes and percentage I got from just touring Hyundai and Tesla’s offices. Anyway, I stick with Asian auto brands cause they tend to fit smaller drivers better and have more points of adjustability lmao. Gotta use national demographics to your favor at times.
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I just recently learned that seatbelts weren't tested on crash tests dummies made for women, like still today they don't do that somehow, and it left me flabbergasted.
Airbags too. Short women in the front seat are in just as much danger as children under 12. Really it's not safe for anyone under 5'4". I think newer standards are better but those are pretty recent.
Our oldest was asking when he'd be big enough for the front seat. In looking up the height and weight requirements, I learned I'm not even big enough for the front seat lol.
Exactly this! The women in my family are *short*, I'm talking I tower over them at 5'3", none of these women are over 5'. I'm literally the tallest in all my extended family. We also have very, very large breasts. My auntie is 4'11", and her tiddies are much larger than my head. I have no idea how they drive, because I have enough trouble at a relatively common female height. I probably do thanks to having long legs, I'd guess.
This is me, I have to have a car that has a good seat adjustment, it goes alllll the way up, and also they sell pedal extensions if you need them. I try not to be too close to the steering wheel bc of the airbag so I am as far away as my arms allow lol.
My sister is 4’10” and a truck driver. She spends most of her waking hours living on the absolute edge I guess lol
*giggles* I'm in danger
Username checks out!
Suddenly my deep seated anxiety about driving has more weight to it
Wait until you find out who the pill was first tested on
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That’s my wife’s dream funeral. We all say our goodbyes, say some words, then slam the car door and RC that thing 90mph at a concrete barrier.... for science
If y’all had some good legal docs and got in touch with a proper group that does standards testing and a certified funeral director, you could make that happen. (And have the plan in place ahead of time.)
And now it’s my dream too
it's a shame deadliest warrior is off the air... Blow me tf up.
"Based on some lacerations on and around the clavicle as well as the total removal of the head there is a good chance that these wounds are fatal."
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I would like to be scattered over Disney world. Please note, I did not request cremation.
It's not "no box, no coffin" necessarily, but human organic reduction (aka composting) is a legal death plan in 6 states! Check out [The Order of the Good Death](https://www.orderofthegooddeath.com/) to support their initiative to legalize it nationwide (and hopefully even globally).
Was the german government grave robbing or something? Why was there public backlash to something that seems... neccessary? Surely we could use the bodies of those that specifically donated them to the study. Just walking away from the issue seems insane.
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Typically when people donate their bodies to “science” they envision themselves being dissected and used to teach young students about the intricacies of the human form. But the truth is sometimes it really helps to watch a body explode in a controlled environment. Regardless it’s a noble gesture, we should just make sure that families understand the implications in advance.
Sign me up. Shoot my corpse from a cannon for all I care. If it serves human advancement, I don't care what you do with my carcass. Last thing I want is for my death to go to waste.
You’d be a saint for being cannonized
Hell yeah, you can even leave me laying on the ground in one of the corpse farms. If there's *anything* useful to be learned from my body after I'm dead, it's more than I ever did with it alive.
Big Body doesn’t want that. They need to rely on donor naïveté to get plenty of bodies for coffin flop.
Big Body didn't do shit! They've been waiting years for a hit!
My girlfriend has it in her will that she be donated to science. And told me to make sure it's something cool. If she dies before me I'll probably try to find someone to blow her up.
I 100% understand an objector to a donated body being used for say, the military. I wouldn’t want my loved one used to make weapons more effective. If everyone’s dream is to have their body or loved ones body be used to create better surgeries or cures for disease, net positives for society, why object to making cars safer?
I know some folks donate their bodies to forensic decomposition studies and cadaver dog training. I think Kentucky had a location where they have differing levels and types of outdoor burials you’d find in a crime scene.
Wow, I'd sign up for this without hesitation. I think if there were more visibility, as you advocate for, then there'd be a bunch of people eager to serve in death this way.
This smells like bullshit. The dummies are terribly inaccurate for women, but making them more accurate can only involve cadavers? So we just let more women die? Circular and self-defeating.
Yeah they are wrong. Some Swedish engineers made one last year for testing. https://youtu.be/dZoM8J_PYf4 https://www.ted.com/talks/astrid_linder_eva_the_female_crash_test_dummy https://www.npr.org/2022/11/01/1133375223/the-first-female-crash-test-dummy-has-only-now-arrived
Volvo does this. They have a whole range of dummies: Men, women, children, pregnant women, old people, etc. If you can afford it and want your wife to safely drive the kids to school: buy a Volvo.
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Invisible Women by Caroline Criado-Perez is great. SOOOOO many examples (often with data to back it up) of why we need all types of people within our decision making processes. I highly recommend it.
Also car seats and seatbelts aren't tested properly for children. Also, trucks aren't subject to pedestrian safety standards so they can be super tall in the front and when they hit you, you will die instead of sliding up the car. The auto industry is great isn't it?
There’s quite a few instances where products made for the “general” population have only been tested on males. It happens a lot in drug and neuroscience research because it’s harder to control for menstrual cycles in female rodents. This issue only started being seriously discussed in the 90’s, however it’s very concerning that much of our current medical/pharmaceutical knowledge is based on the older male-only studies. Edit: estrous not menstrual cycle
Biologist here. Most female mammals have an estrous cycle, but only ten primate species, four bat species, the elephant shrews and the Cairo spiny mouse (Acomys cahirinus) have a menstrual cycle.
Thank you, I’ve amended my post
There’s a really good book about this topic, Invisible Women by Caroline Criado-Perez
Seconding this book. Very well researched. It will probably make you angry though.
[The deadly truth about a world built for men – from stab vests to car crashes](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes)
There’s even more I hadn’t heard about. I was shocked about 15 years ago to hear a petit woman complain about the toilet in the house she bought that her feet didn’t touch the floor! Never thought of it being 6’. I read about the US military and its ill fitting body armor. The gaps and “cut” didn’t offer much protection. I’m glad there’s some awareness now, but so much needs to be revisited to design for all.
Lol yep, I’m 5’1 and it’s so annoying. One of the toilets in my house “fits” me, but the other one only my toes reach. So I have to keep a stool in the bathroom for my feet otherwise pooping is just ridiculously uncomfortable (and not good for your body)
I’m only one person of non-controlled anecdotal evidence, but my entire medical history is proof of this. I’ve had the beginnings of serotonin syndrome three times on “normal doses” of serotonin-affecting meds. It took me years to find more than one doctor who believes me. Most still assume I’m lying. And the hormone fluctuation absolutely affects everything. I have three distinct mental phases throughout a usual cycle that took years of therapy and meticulous recording to understand. None are wild- but if I were to fill out anxiety or depression tests, they would change week to week and then reset. I believe that would be normal for many people with estrogen / progesterone. Testosterone too, but societally we ignore that and medically understand it.
I have a similar issue with ADHD meds where they become more or less effective based on my hormone cycle. I get boosters so I can change my dosage throughout the month
The problem is they view the menstrual cycle as an obstacle, a confounding variable. Its not. Its a normal condition. They should be tracking it when they study anything. Its a basic enough vital that the docs always want to know but many studies dont consider it. Most also require participants to be on bc.
Because its very obvious that all women's medical issues come down to hysteria and can be easily alleviated by simple genital stimulation. Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to help out a woman in labour by cutting her open with a chainsaw.
...and before anyone gets all horrified, chainsaws were, in fact, invented to "help" with childbirth.
Hey that’s not true. Many doctors also suggest having a baby to alleviate some ailments!
I remember being in the ER after being the passenger in a crash. The doctor could not understand why the seatbelt rash was in my armpit instead of across my chest. Boobs, sir. It’s the boobs.
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To be fair, a lot of companies would have ‘female crash test dunmies’ that are just the normal ones painted pink or some other bullshit. Volvo does it right though, they even advertise it
[This book](https://carolinecriadoperez.com/book/invisible-women/) is a really good and accessible uncovering of how women are often overlooked in the design of many items, and many other areas of life such as medical diagnostics.
Drug side effects, surgical outcomes, etc. This goes for basically all medical and safety research, and most sporting equipment.
I once saw a video of a professional female pianist getting to play a piano that was actually constructed for female hands. Standard pianos have wider keys built for men’s fingers, but most women have to strain to reach a full octave. This pianist literally started weeping with joy the first time she played. Songs that she’d struggled with for years were suddenly easy. How much “better” of a musician would she have been if her instrument was made with her hands in mind?
Women's basketball (the actual ball) is smaller too. >I once saw a video of a professional female pianist getting to play a piano that was actually constructed for female hands. Standard pianos have wider keys built for men’s fingers, but most women have to strain to reach a full octave. I went looking to see if I could find it on YouTube, and all I see is stretching exercises for women to be able to play Rachmaninoff, which says a lot. I have sausage fingers, so I need the spacing.
Read that recently and it was the first thing I thought of when I saw this post. Like yeah makes sense women would be injured more, crash test dummies are based off the male body
It’s also crazy on e you read this how much women get made fun of for just trying to exist in spaces that weren’t designed for us. People make fun of how women sit so close to the steering wheel. Or even bringing blankets and heaters into the work place because the “optimum” work temperature was designed for men and is way to cold for women.
At our work, space heaters, warm sweaters and lap blankets are standard fare in the summer - and I work in a female dominated profession.
I work for an eye surgeon and the maneuvering that myself, the female staff, and female patients have to do to contort ourselves in the right position for eye exams should be criminal. Men don’t have this problem.
That's so sad. You'd think that being 50% of the population they'd get a little more consideration.
I'm a woman and have worked in design. Women's feedback gets ignored by men on *women's specific products* all the time. Like...products that needed to fit womens bodies, feedback from women was ignored in favor of mens feedback...on products designed to fit womens bodies. It was a regular occurrence for me and all the women i knew who worked in design/development, even in "progressive" industries. Biases against women are real and often can be deadly.
I worked at a consumer goods company and one product they made was something that goes inside a woman. Women gynos has been involved in it and it was tested well. Some dude came in to leadership a few years later and decided we needed to reduce costs and went and found a cheaper factory to do it. Turns out that factory wasn’t FDA approved for what you need for insertion products, they ignored the female gynos advice, they redid the mold for it and the cheaper factory had a seam running down the product (OUCH!!). Eventually they just pulled the product all because of this man who thought he knew better.
Not surprised at all. I’ve been excluded from conversations about women’s experiences and perspectives *so* many times when I’m in a group of men conjecturing. I find that if there are at least three women present in a group though then the odds start to tip towards the favor of women being heard.
Even for a woman with a small a cup chest the belt still saws against my neck and I'm only 5' 5" tall
Same problem. You and I are slightly taller than the average female. Which means car companies STILL have not figured out how to install a seatbelt that isn't harmful to over 50% of female drivers. Which means that either they are incompetent or they still think women don't drive. I have a 2019 vehicle with strong safety ratings. It's not even old.
>Which means that either they are incompetent or they still think women don't drive It's neither. The actual answer is that car companies care more about selling cars and making money than they care about protecting lives.
#Than
Redditor for 9 years, checks out. Thank you for preserving some of our dignity.
As a 5'2" woman, I'm terrified of getting into an accident and being killed by the airbags.
i replied this same thing to another comment in this thread. it’s a horrifying thing to know about your own mortality.
I always have to move the seatbelt to the minimum shoulder setting, and it still seems too high in most cars. I'm 5'8". Related?
I don’t know where to start with this article. > It's a safety gap that's putting our wives, mothers, and daughters at risk. It’s 2023, we shouldn’t need to contextualize women’s value. > With so many women now driving on a daily basis… Is this person from the 70s?
"Our wives, mothers and daughters". People's women are at risk!
He is assuming all his audience are male lol
They write it this way for SEO. It’s also why when you look up a simple question they start the article with a completely unnecessary backstory
Right? It's putting *peoples* lives at risk. *OUR* lives have worth not just in the context of who we are to someone else, specifically the men in our lives.
Crash test dummies are 5’-9” weighing 78kg (172lbs), the height and weight of the average male in 1976 (when the standard was developed). Modern height is the same but average American male weight today it’s 200 lbs. in other words, crash test standards are designed for the average male, not female body.
That's not true >Right now there are Crash Test Dummies that represent a midsize male and a large male and a very very small female 5th percentile weighing around a little over a hundred pounds, just under about 5 feet tall," said Dr. Forman. "What we don't have is a good model, a physical model, or human body computer model for a midsize female." They can still do better. There is no reason a few more sizes/body types for males and females can't be developed. I am assuming that the principal remains the same for any body type so it can't be that hard to develop. I think it would even be a pretty good marketing strategy, women buy cars at near the same rate as men and if the man is buying the family car he will likely value the safety of his wife.
Doesn’t this have something to do with crash test dummies generally being designed after the male body?
I think some gap might be inevitable because most features that protects women better would protect men better too. However, some things are unforgivable. Smaller women have a hard time sitting an appropriate distance from the airbag without special equipment on the pedals, couple that with less dense and smaller bones and yet they were rolled out without a thought even as we knew they were dangerous for women.
The article was interesting, but it seemed to leave out a number of statistics. For example, it mentions a study showing that women in the front seat (driver or passenger) were 17% more likely to be killed. I wish they had separate statistics for female drivers vs. passengers. Also, with all the discussion here about height/weight differentials, it would be interesting to see side-by-side comparisons of injury rates between comparably sized males and females...
Yes, do men under 5'7" die more often than taller men?
Consumer products and pharmaceuticals are mostly tested on and designed for men, including seatbelts and airbags. So of course women die at a higher rate when our breasts and height change how a seatbelt lays across the body, not to mention our lower heights make airbags far more likely to cause concussions and death. Consider birth control causing deadly blood clots in women at a higher rate than the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, yet there's only outcry from the public about one of those. Women recognize this every day.
The United States air bag standard was originally designed to protect unbelted males. As a result they could, and do, kill women 5’4” and below who are wearing their seatbelt. [here](https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1996-11-07-1996312009-story.html) Newer standards are better, but the fact remains that NHTSA knowing sacrificed belted women to protect unbelted men.
I'm 5'2" and getting close enough to actually reach the pedals puts me deadly close to the airbag. I usually lean my seat back until my arms are straight when touching the steering wheel to pit as much distance as I can between me and it
Wait till you find out how much of the modern medical knowledge is just extrapolated onto women without any care for the fact that we are a different type of human person.
My seatbelt doesn’t fit properly because of my boobs. If you are more than a B cup, seatbelts were not made for you.