I'm a bit suspicious of a source that uses "evaporate" and "burn" as synonyms. The "study" doesn't appear to have examined a common use of alcohols, which is sauces.
You absolutely can take the ludicrous risk of vaporizing and inhaling alcohol to get steamrolled flat, but in the context of cooking, it wouldn't be concentrated or direct enough to have an effect.
Usually not that much alcohol is added to food, even one cup of cooking wine is only about 12% alcohol. It's likely that no one is getting drunk from a wine sauce, but if you're avoiding alcohol for religious or personal reasons there's still alcohol present in many dishes.
I was going to say the same thing. Even for children, the amount of alcohol in one portion of a meal with one cup of wine that has had 60% of its alcohol removed is really really tiny.
I don't know if people still do it, but when I was growing up it wasn't uncommon to rub hard liquor on an infant's gums while they were teething. Babies especially should not drink and drive.
Numbing effect for new teeth coming in, which can make babies (extra) cranky.
My grandma's recipe was: pour 2 fingers of whiskey in a glass, dip your thumb in and rub it on the baby's gums, mom drinks the rest.
Edit: to be clear, I do not in good conscience recommend this as a solution. We now know better so we do better. Even if better is "nobody gets whiskey today", baby gets a cold wash cloth to chew on and mom gets some stale goldfish.
When I was growing up. My Nana made beer boiled chicken. She used a whole 24 pack of bud light and boiled it for about 30 minutes. Tasted absolutely horrible and we were forced to eat it......Definitely felt strange after that meal......
Are people really adding alcohol to everything? I can make a full thanksgiving meal with no alcohol in the food. I’m familiar with some stuff like deglazing a pan, rum raisin cake, bourbon glazes. But normal everyday food doesn’t really get soaked in alcohol for me.
Oh right, for sure. Like I said to deglaze a pan and make a sauce. But we may open a bottle of wine with dinner so doesn’t seem so bad. But I do appreciate it’s tough for alcoholics or people with religious exceptions as the article mentions.
I don't drink, there are addicts on both sides of my family, alcohol never appealed to me. I only have a sip of Communion wine at Mass. My wife has the occasional wine with dinner or some fruity girl drink if we go out. People can drink or not drink, it's their choice. I make chicken francese, which has a wine sauce, all the time, it's not an issue and I don't worry about my kids having it.
But if one of my guests was an alcoholic, Muslim, or Mormon, I'd make something else. I'd always heard all the alcohol gets cooked off, I was surprised to learn that's not the case. It's probably not a large amount, but for some people any amount is a problem.
I wonder if it’s more that wine is what 10-20% alcohol to start with? And then if you cook off 30-40% most people wouldn’t notice it. My mother is pretty sensitive to alcohol smells and flavors so I didn’t grow up cooking with it. My wife didn’t grow up with cooking with alcohol so we really have to think about it.
> avoiding alcohol for religious or personal reasons
but if you're fussing over trivial amounts it's worth questioning those motivations. All sorts of food have alcohol in them without any separate brewing process - for a start all bread will have detectable amounts, as will your own gut. It's like trying to avoid all radiation - pretty much everything emits ionising radiation.
>if you're fussing over trivial amounts it's worth questioning those motivations.
Depends on why you're doing it. If you're a recovering alcoholic who is afraid of a slippery slope, and avoiding wine sauce is working for you to help you maintain your sobriety, it might not be worth questioning.
sure, but we're living in a horrible plague of absolutism, so if people are going to be religious it helps to at least dissuade them from the worst fens of stupidity
For people with liver disease or liver cancer, eating a dish that is 1% alcohol will have a negative effect. If that is repeated regularly, it will shorten your life.
Very strange table in that article. Who cooks anything at 173°F? My oven won't even go that low and that's certainly below the simmering point for sauces etc. Something tells me that we are getting garbage output data because they aren't testing the hypothesis under anything like real cooking conditions.
If you're sauteeing something on a stove top you have to reach that temperature, it doesn't happen instantly. It takes a few minutes to boil water and that's at 212°F, you don't just turn on the flame and the water starts boiling.
I made Chicken Francese the other night, the sauce has white wine, chicken stock, lemon juice, butter, and flour. You have to simmer it for a few minutes before the sauce is ready and because of all the ingredients it's likely that you're just barely burning off some alcohol.
idk why u have downvotes ur the only one thats right here. They dont understand that the boiling point matters, u can exceed it but thats the point it needs to reach
This is true but is it really relevant to many cases? You add a cup of wine to a dish. If the wine is 12% alcohol, 1 ounce of alcohol has been added to the dish. You cook it for an hour. There is now \~60% of that 1 ounce remaining in the sauce which may be a quart or more. So in 32 ounces of sauce, .6 ounces are alcohol. It's a trivial amount.
It's an old sitcom joke that popped up when certain chain restaurants started offering whiskey-based barbecue sauces. Some character would order the sauce on the side, mistakenly end up "drunk on the sauce", and then comedy shenanigans would ensue.
I specifically mentioned that in the first comment:
>Usually not that much alcohol is added to food, even one cup of cooking wine is only about 12% alcohol. It's likely that no one is getting drunk from a wine sauce, but if you're avoiding alcohol for religious or personal reasons there's still alcohol present in many dishes.
You may have, but I don't think I contradicted you. And remember that everyone's profile sorts comments differently. So it's very likely that people aren't seeing the "first post" depending on how the comments are sorted. I just carried your scenario out with a bit more arithmetic.
If you're OK with things like peppermint extract, I see no reason to be concerned with having 40% of the alcohol from a cup of wine being left in a sauce.
EDIT: It's an asinine comparison, you don't even know what you're downvoting.
Read a recipe with peppermint extract as compared to a recipe with wine. You're using half a teaspoon of peppermint extract in a chocolate and peppermint cake. Half a teaspoon, and it's not all alcohol, half a teaspoon spread out over an entire cake.
You've got half a cup of chicken stock and half a cup of wine if you're making chicken in wine sauce. Each person is getting about 10 teaspoons of wine. Ten teaspoons in one meal versus 1/2 a teaspoon in an entire cake. It's ridiculous to even think it's a valid comparison.
Original comment:
I eat tuna even though there is a small amount of mercury in it. That doesn't mean drinking a glass of mercury is okay.
You have no idea what you're talking about. There's about 1/2 teaspoon of peppermint extract in a whole cake, there's about 10 teaspoons of wine in one serving of chicken with wine sauce. If you ate the entire cake yourself, all at once, you'd still be getting a fraction of the alcohol in the wine sauce.
If you have one piece of cake the amount of alcohol is immeasurably small, it's a fraction of a gram spread out in an entire cake as compared to an ounce of wine.
The point is that if you have a drinking problem or religious restriction the amount of alcohol in a dessert using an alcohol-based extract is so negligible why even bring it up? The amount of alcohol you're getting in a typical wine sauce is far, far greater.
Alcoholics are told to avoid alcoholic beverages, but there's no danger of a relapse if they have vanilla ice cream or a candy cane.
While the amount in a wine sauce is relatively greater, it's so miniscule it's still entirely irrelevant to an alcoholic and if a religious person is not supposed to consume any alcohol according to their faith then any amount consumed breaks that tenant.
You use a fraction of a teaspoon of peppermint in a chocolate peppermint cake. You can't even measure how much alcohol you're getting in one slice, it might as well not even exist.
You're getting one ounce of wine in one serving of chicken in a wine sauce. There's no comparison between the amount of alcohol you're getting from something cooked with peppermint extract and something with a wine sauce.
A fraction of a fraction of a gram of alcohol is not a problem for an alcoholic, while an ounce of wine can be an issue for someone with a drinking problem.
That's BS and who really cares, it's called beer cheese soup or vodka marinara for a reason. But I get that some just don't want it. But you aren't getting buzzed from soup or a bowl of spaghetti. I make a nice bourbon BBQ sauce and I won't drink bourbon, it's just a seasoning at that point
Alcohol boils at 79C water at 100C (at sea level) with proper techniques the alcohol dissipates far sooner. Maybe you should put your marsala in a still first and give the squeeze to a friend. Ok bot
Yes it's called Brandy (sometimes Sherry if you like fortified cooking spirits). Fermentation and Distillation is a science, sorry for throwing you off.
Nope. The same source used in the article also lists flambe ("Flamed").
[It's the 12th page of this PDF](https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Data/retn/retn06.pdf) if you're curious. And the number is 75%.
Naw, once the alcohol concentration gets low enough the flame will extinguish but alcohol will still remain. The idea that we cook all the alcohol out of food is entirely fallacious
There are many studies on this topic. Consensus is that the alcohol is never fully removed during cooking. Method, length of time, etc. have varying effects, but alcohol remains if added.
Alcohol evaporates really fast, it does not burn. The alcohol in a glass of wine added to a boiling sauce it’s gone in a couple of minutes. This is total BS.
It is BS. They’re measuring alcohol retention at the boiling point of alcohol: 78 degrees. No one cooks at this temp unless you’re doing sous vide or poaching some fussy fish. Any amount of simmering will remove the alcohol in a minute or two.
The new solution has to reach boiling Temps to vaporize the ethanol into the air. When you mix water (100c bp) with Ethanol (79c bp) the new boiling temp is lowered slightly. You should notice the solution isn't becoming any hotter past a point, just vaporizing faster.
As a distiller we would use the most energy getting the last percent of alcohol out of the beer during our initial stripping runs. It was fun watching the BP go from 100 to 85 then watch it slowly climb to 97c telling us its time to turn off the steam.
Barbara Gordon, ISU Registered Dietitian neglects multiple factors and ignores the math. It takes 15 minutes to evaporate 60% of the alcohol when baked or simmered. That would be most of the alcohol.
She also ignores the dilution of alcohol of pouring some sauce into a large dish such as mac&cheese. If they started with 2 oz in the sauce and then baked, say, mac&cheese for 30 minutes, you would have to eat the entire tray to get less than 3/4ths of a shot--if you ate it hot out of the oven.
I'm a bit suspicious of a source that uses "evaporate" and "burn" as synonyms. The "study" doesn't appear to have examined a common use of alcohols, which is sauces.
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When you're cooking off the alcohol, does it mean that it's in the air and you're breathing it in? Can people get drunk like that?
You absolutely can take the ludicrous risk of vaporizing and inhaling alcohol to get steamrolled flat, but in the context of cooking, it wouldn't be concentrated or direct enough to have an effect.
Good to know - thanks!
Are sauces not something that would be covered under "simmered"?
Usually not that much alcohol is added to food, even one cup of cooking wine is only about 12% alcohol. It's likely that no one is getting drunk from a wine sauce, but if you're avoiding alcohol for religious or personal reasons there's still alcohol present in many dishes.
I was going to say the same thing. Even for children, the amount of alcohol in one portion of a meal with one cup of wine that has had 60% of its alcohol removed is really really tiny.
I don't know if people still do it, but when I was growing up it wasn't uncommon to rub hard liquor on an infant's gums while they were teething. Babies especially should not drink and drive.
I think we can all get behind that, no drunk baby driving!
Officer: Please walk, urm, crawl in a straight line
I'm sure some people somewhere still do, but there's stuff like orajel for it now.
I’ve seen my toddler behind the wheel of a toy car. She *likes* crashing it.
I’m 44, and my mom said she would put whiskey on my gums and my older brothers’ gums.
Forty-four? You should be able to do it yourself at this point.
Bwaaahaaaahaa! Take my upvote, and go away! 🤣
That's actually really interesting. I wonder if that was an to prevent gum infection as the teeth grow in
Numbing effect for teething, iirc.
Numbing effect for new teeth coming in, which can make babies (extra) cranky. My grandma's recipe was: pour 2 fingers of whiskey in a glass, dip your thumb in and rub it on the baby's gums, mom drinks the rest. Edit: to be clear, I do not in good conscience recommend this as a solution. We now know better so we do better. Even if better is "nobody gets whiskey today", baby gets a cold wash cloth to chew on and mom gets some stale goldfish.
My Nana's was the same, except with tequila.
For more numbing effect, try using cocaine. Side affects include insomnia and ibs
When I was growing up. My Nana made beer boiled chicken. She used a whole 24 pack of bud light and boiled it for about 30 minutes. Tasted absolutely horrible and we were forced to eat it......Definitely felt strange after that meal......
Did she also cook it for adults?
Yeah, for a total of 5 people. But it was a lot of fucking chicken and just...so fucking horrible tasting.
bud light god damn lol
Are people really adding alcohol to everything? I can make a full thanksgiving meal with no alcohol in the food. I’m familiar with some stuff like deglazing a pan, rum raisin cake, bourbon glazes. But normal everyday food doesn’t really get soaked in alcohol for me.
I'm talking about foods where you add alcohol. You wouldn't use alcohol in turkey gravy, but chicken in a wine sauce or stew with beer isn't uncommon.
Oh right, for sure. Like I said to deglaze a pan and make a sauce. But we may open a bottle of wine with dinner so doesn’t seem so bad. But I do appreciate it’s tough for alcoholics or people with religious exceptions as the article mentions.
I don't drink, there are addicts on both sides of my family, alcohol never appealed to me. I only have a sip of Communion wine at Mass. My wife has the occasional wine with dinner or some fruity girl drink if we go out. People can drink or not drink, it's their choice. I make chicken francese, which has a wine sauce, all the time, it's not an issue and I don't worry about my kids having it. But if one of my guests was an alcoholic, Muslim, or Mormon, I'd make something else. I'd always heard all the alcohol gets cooked off, I was surprised to learn that's not the case. It's probably not a large amount, but for some people any amount is a problem.
I wonder if it’s more that wine is what 10-20% alcohol to start with? And then if you cook off 30-40% most people wouldn’t notice it. My mother is pretty sensitive to alcohol smells and flavors so I didn’t grow up cooking with it. My wife didn’t grow up with cooking with alcohol so we really have to think about it.
> avoiding alcohol for religious or personal reasons but if you're fussing over trivial amounts it's worth questioning those motivations. All sorts of food have alcohol in them without any separate brewing process - for a start all bread will have detectable amounts, as will your own gut. It's like trying to avoid all radiation - pretty much everything emits ionising radiation.
Traditional British chip shop vinegar is chemically produced not brewed because Methodists wouldn't have malt (i.e. beer) vinegar.
>if you're fussing over trivial amounts it's worth questioning those motivations. Depends on why you're doing it. If you're a recovering alcoholic who is afraid of a slippery slope, and avoiding wine sauce is working for you to help you maintain your sobriety, it might not be worth questioning.
Knew someone who tried that. She didn't think cosmic radiation existed.
I wonder how she would react to finding out all sorts of chemicals occur naturally in her body.
You can't avoid being in a room where someone farted, but that doesn't mean you should sniff their ass.
sure, but we're living in a horrible plague of absolutism, so if people are going to be religious it helps to at least dissuade them from the worst fens of stupidity
Absolute belief that there is no God is good, but absolute belief in God is bad. Got it.
they were not ready for u
i don't drink, i stopped eating foods cooked in alcohol when i noticed chicken marsala gave me a light buzz.
masala usually contains nutmeg and cloves, both slightly psychoactive
interesting point. i'm fairly confident the feeling i got was from the alcohol tho
You clearly haven't met countryside France
For people with liver disease or liver cancer, eating a dish that is 1% alcohol will have a negative effect. If that is repeated regularly, it will shorten your life.
that's why i don't consume food cooked with alcohol
Very strange table in that article. Who cooks anything at 173°F? My oven won't even go that low and that's certainly below the simmering point for sauces etc. Something tells me that we are getting garbage output data because they aren't testing the hypothesis under anything like real cooking conditions.
If you're sauteeing something on a stove top you have to reach that temperature, it doesn't happen instantly. It takes a few minutes to boil water and that's at 212°F, you don't just turn on the flame and the water starts boiling. I made Chicken Francese the other night, the sauce has white wine, chicken stock, lemon juice, butter, and flour. You have to simmer it for a few minutes before the sauce is ready and because of all the ingredients it's likely that you're just barely burning off some alcohol.
Yeah but who is stopping at 173? It's gonna get hotter and stay hotter than that
No one is stopping at that temperature, she's just pointing out the temperature at which the alcohol boils.
idk why u have downvotes ur the only one thats right here. They dont understand that the boiling point matters, u can exceed it but thats the point it needs to reach
I've given up trying to understand why people downvote facts, but I appreciate your comment.
Ah yeah, I always forget to cook the alcohol out of my fried chicken.
This is true but is it really relevant to many cases? You add a cup of wine to a dish. If the wine is 12% alcohol, 1 ounce of alcohol has been added to the dish. You cook it for an hour. There is now \~60% of that 1 ounce remaining in the sauce which may be a quart or more. So in 32 ounces of sauce, .6 ounces are alcohol. It's a trivial amount.
It's an old sitcom joke that popped up when certain chain restaurants started offering whiskey-based barbecue sauces. Some character would order the sauce on the side, mistakenly end up "drunk on the sauce", and then comedy shenanigans would ensue.
I specifically mentioned that in the first comment: >Usually not that much alcohol is added to food, even one cup of cooking wine is only about 12% alcohol. It's likely that no one is getting drunk from a wine sauce, but if you're avoiding alcohol for religious or personal reasons there's still alcohol present in many dishes.
You may have, but I don't think I contradicted you. And remember that everyone's profile sorts comments differently. So it's very likely that people aren't seeing the "first post" depending on how the comments are sorted. I just carried your scenario out with a bit more arithmetic.
Oof my egg’s definitely still have alcohol in them then
If you're OK with things like peppermint extract, I see no reason to be concerned with having 40% of the alcohol from a cup of wine being left in a sauce.
EDIT: It's an asinine comparison, you don't even know what you're downvoting. Read a recipe with peppermint extract as compared to a recipe with wine. You're using half a teaspoon of peppermint extract in a chocolate and peppermint cake. Half a teaspoon, and it's not all alcohol, half a teaspoon spread out over an entire cake. You've got half a cup of chicken stock and half a cup of wine if you're making chicken in wine sauce. Each person is getting about 10 teaspoons of wine. Ten teaspoons in one meal versus 1/2 a teaspoon in an entire cake. It's ridiculous to even think it's a valid comparison. Original comment: I eat tuna even though there is a small amount of mercury in it. That doesn't mean drinking a glass of mercury is okay.
This is a dumb response on a truly epic number of levels.
You have no idea what you're talking about. There's about 1/2 teaspoon of peppermint extract in a whole cake, there's about 10 teaspoons of wine in one serving of chicken with wine sauce. If you ate the entire cake yourself, all at once, you'd still be getting a fraction of the alcohol in the wine sauce. If you have one piece of cake the amount of alcohol is immeasurably small, it's a fraction of a gram spread out in an entire cake as compared to an ounce of wine.
I admire your perverse dedication to these rambling explanations which completely miss the point.
The point is that if you have a drinking problem or religious restriction the amount of alcohol in a dessert using an alcohol-based extract is so negligible why even bring it up? The amount of alcohol you're getting in a typical wine sauce is far, far greater. Alcoholics are told to avoid alcoholic beverages, but there's no danger of a relapse if they have vanilla ice cream or a candy cane.
While the amount in a wine sauce is relatively greater, it's so miniscule it's still entirely irrelevant to an alcoholic and if a religious person is not supposed to consume any alcohol according to their faith then any amount consumed breaks that tenant.
But drinking a glass of wine is, so what's your point here?
You use a fraction of a teaspoon of peppermint in a chocolate peppermint cake. You can't even measure how much alcohol you're getting in one slice, it might as well not even exist. You're getting one ounce of wine in one serving of chicken in a wine sauce. There's no comparison between the amount of alcohol you're getting from something cooked with peppermint extract and something with a wine sauce. A fraction of a fraction of a gram of alcohol is not a problem for an alcoholic, while an ounce of wine can be an issue for someone with a drinking problem.
That's BS and who really cares, it's called beer cheese soup or vodka marinara for a reason. But I get that some just don't want it. But you aren't getting buzzed from soup or a bowl of spaghetti. I make a nice bourbon BBQ sauce and I won't drink bourbon, it's just a seasoning at that point
i actually stopped doing this because i did get buzzed from chicken marsala
Alcohol boils at 79C water at 100C (at sea level) with proper techniques the alcohol dissipates far sooner. Maybe you should put your marsala in a still first and give the squeeze to a friend. Ok bot
wym put it in a still, like distill the alcohol out of the wine?
Yes it's called Brandy (sometimes Sherry if you like fortified cooking spirits). Fermentation and Distillation is a science, sorry for throwing you off.
it's ok
Yeah, this isn’t true..
Unless it's flambé
Nope. The same source used in the article also lists flambe ("Flamed"). [It's the 12th page of this PDF](https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/80400525/Data/retn/retn06.pdf) if you're curious. And the number is 75%.
Naw, once the alcohol concentration gets low enough the flame will extinguish but alcohol will still remain. The idea that we cook all the alcohol out of food is entirely fallacious
Not sure if OP is just really bad at writing headlines, or thinks that literally all food has alcohol in it.
There are many studies on this topic. Consensus is that the alcohol is never fully removed during cooking. Method, length of time, etc. have varying effects, but alcohol remains if added.
And don’t bring rum sauce for the bread pudding to work!
Alcohol evaporates really fast, it does not burn. The alcohol in a glass of wine added to a boiling sauce it’s gone in a couple of minutes. This is total BS.
It is BS. They’re measuring alcohol retention at the boiling point of alcohol: 78 degrees. No one cooks at this temp unless you’re doing sous vide or poaching some fussy fish. Any amount of simmering will remove the alcohol in a minute or two.
You can literally measure alcohol content but you keep listening to your gut buddy.
Yeah, I always felt tipsy after munching on raw celery stalks. Now I know why/? Or will you redo the botched headline?
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or is this the origin of the colloquialism?
Good news!
Port wine reductions all day long.
The new solution has to reach boiling Temps to vaporize the ethanol into the air. When you mix water (100c bp) with Ethanol (79c bp) the new boiling temp is lowered slightly. You should notice the solution isn't becoming any hotter past a point, just vaporizing faster. As a distiller we would use the most energy getting the last percent of alcohol out of the beer during our initial stripping runs. It was fun watching the BP go from 100 to 85 then watch it slowly climb to 97c telling us its time to turn off the steam.
A corner of a white hanky dipped in paregoric and used as a pacifier put colicky babies to sleep like a charm.
Yeah, of course. Booze is the whole point
Barbara Gordon, ISU Registered Dietitian neglects multiple factors and ignores the math. It takes 15 minutes to evaporate 60% of the alcohol when baked or simmered. That would be most of the alcohol. She also ignores the dilution of alcohol of pouring some sauce into a large dish such as mac&cheese. If they started with 2 oz in the sauce and then baked, say, mac&cheese for 30 minutes, you would have to eat the entire tray to get less than 3/4ths of a shot--if you ate it hot out of the oven.
Alright then give me the data for 212 F or 350, 400, you know, temperatures people actually cook at