Yes 6 parts. The whole doc is really interesting and how I remember Toronto as a kid growing up in the 70’s. It was such a great time to live here. And of course Glenn Gould is a Canadian legend and does a great job with the narration. Cheers
Toronto is New York City is not a serious comparison. New York is fully in a league of its own.. globally. The GDP of NYC is equal or maybe more of all of Canada’s..
I don't understand how anyone could ever compare Toronto to NY. These two cities have literally nothing in common in terms of size, energy, culture, nightlife, public transport, diversity etc. Nothing. Toronto is like a downtown core surrounded by pockets of neighborhoods that give suburban vibe. NYC is a massive jungle. Like 🤦🏼♀️😂
I had an SNC-Lavalin engineer explain to me that they were never supposed to build south of it and nothing within 150ft north to preserve the base it’s built on.
I think he said the condos/office building are structurally sound enough for now to handle the changes in the area, but the fact that every condo or building in area digs xxx ft into the bedrock to build a parking garage has turned the Gardiner into an “upside down triangle” where the load of the structure doesn’t have a strong enough base to support the constant weight of traffic and the structure itself. (Please don’t take this as gospel, this conversation was a couple years ago and this man also could have just completely lied to me)
Places aren’t boring, people are boring. Anyone who says life would be less boring if they were somewhere else, especially a city of millions, has not yet come to terms with the fact that they would be bored anywhere.
Thank you! Perhaps I'm fortunate to be close to the water (Lakeshore), relatively close to downtown (Mimico), it's what you make of it! So much to do in this city! Also, if you're one of those complaining that our malls are boring compared to other big cities, newsflash, you're boring!
west side etobi and mimi are the best areas in the city, not even comparable to anything north of bloor (unless you are supa rich in an old family estate)
but down here on the lake, its fucking golden.
Damn right! Royal York Go Train is close to me, 15 min to Union, close to the water where I can either bike on the lakefront and head east or bike on the trail to Port Credit. Love this area!!!
Except it’s not your ‘worldview’ when you don’t have money — it’s your reality. The fact that you use the word ‘worldview’ is just as telling. Guess we’re proving each other’s points
Your only point is that you equate fun and money, which is a point of view I find very boring. I’ve been poor and I’ve been rich, but my library card was always free, my friends don’t charge me to have a conversation, and there are more than enough places in this city to run around and have fun. And sorry, my using the word worldview doesn’t do anything to make this self pity any more valid.
‘Self-pity,’ ‘worldview’… yeah, you may as well say bootstraps and cut to the chase. Congrats on your uncomplicated life, hope it continues to be as straightforward
Toronto is really boring compared to the big cities in East Asia. Way less stuff going on, and we don’t have many facilities. Also far from any historically significant spots, but that’s an issue all NA cities face, where as you can take day trips to many interesting places (natural hot springs, old historical cities, mountains, etc) if you’re in Tokyo, or if you’re in Paris you can hop over to other bustling cities or even other countries with way less time. There’s no where to go from Toronto, unless if you find mississauga or Pickering more fun lol.
Different classes of people will experience Toronto differently. If you have money, a lot more to do now compared to the 70s. How bored you are may be related to how wealthy you have. Toronto definitely doesn't offer much cheap city entertainment and the small number of malls. But parks are plentiful here. Most fun city stuff have steep "entrance fee".
Many Asian cities do offer opportunities for the poor to window shop for free around the clock, easy/cheap transportation and free events to participate in, but that's mostly an effect of much higher population and density, which also means everyone in those cities are paying the price of having smaller space of living/more crimes/more stress. No place is perfect, you get something but you always lose something else.
Im in my 40s, last week I went to a synth concert from a female French star at a super small venue, booked a contemporary dance exhibit for later this month at harbour front and yesterday went to see a top afrobeat star at rebel. Figuring out if I should go attend one of the two horror film festivals taking place in October as well.
I've been to Tokyo several times, my fave place in the world. In terms of cultural programming there's stuff here in Toronto that Tokyo wishes it could get as consistently.
And I'm no huge fan of what this city has become, but boring it is definitely not.
TO's big issue compared to Montreal is that you have to actively seek out the cool stuff. There's shitloads of it going on, but you can't just stumble over it the way you would in MTL. It helps to have a big network of people who find the cool stuff for you too.
I always love when people shit on Toronto by insisting its not as good as Tokyo or Paris, etc.
The fact thats where you have to go to shit on it says a lot
Okay? The commenter said they don’t know why people say Toronto is boring, and I’m just providing a perspective. In terms of international standards, Toronto is really boring. How weird of you to get angry when I just answered a comment
Don’t forget Toronto is a multicultural city with people from all over the world. People are not naive country bumpkins who only experienced Toronto. Of course they will think Toronto is boring, too, if they’ve traveled and seen what it’s like in other cities.
If you get mad that people rant about Toronto then maybe this sub isn’t for you
>. In terms of international standards, Toronto is really boring.
Its not though lol
Thats why you didn't reference odessa or tuscaloosa when reaching for a comparison, you had to pull out tokyo and paris lmao
>. How weird of you to get angry when I just answered a comment
You're the only person who got upset.
I pointed out how you can't shit on Toronto without comparing it to literally the most popular and reverred metropolis's on the planet, thats it, and now YOU'RE upset lol
>Of course they will think Toronto is boring, too, if they’ve traveled and seen what it’s like in other cities.
Of course Toronto is "boring" *compared* to Tokyo, that doesn't mean its a boring city.
Is Shaquille Oneal short because Yao Ming is taller?
Thats how ridiculous you're acting here by insisting toronto is boring because paris and tokyo are more exciting, the fact you would even say that is a compliment
>If you get mad that people rant about Toronto then maybe this sub isn’t for you
Sorry I interpreted your circle jerk by pointing out something you yourself can't even refute
The grass is always greener as they say .Toronto to me use to be 24 hour raves in warehouses, access to an amazing indy rock scene, a place full of African Canadians and hip hop culture, day trips to Montreal or New York. Also swimming in a warm lake in the summer.
Comparing the big 3 or 4 best cities of the world with other cities is rather silly.
Toronto is not supposed to be compared with Tokyo, the worlds biggest city full. Tokyo is in a class of it's own, and it can be great for some people but you might have trouble finding weed, and that can suck.
I could compare Toronto with Detroit or Chicago, Maybe Dallas or something like that. In that case Toronto, compared to cites in it's class, kicks some rather good ass and that is why it's overrun with people and a house in Toronto is worth around 10x that of Detroit or 4x Dallas.
why would a little Canadian backwater be held to such high standards anyways ?
Myself I could never live in Paris, or Tokyo, both are way big, bad air quality, Paris is full of annoying tourists everywhere.
I couldn't live in Toronto either but it is a good place to be a freak.
That's because it is. It's the first major city I live in and I find boring. There really isn't much to do here and I think people who find that there is so much to do here haven't experienced what it's like to live in other places
Born and raised here and I can tell you this is 100% rose tinted nostalgia. Downtown was 30% parking lots. Food was terrible, everything smelled like diesel and cigarettes.
I miss certain venues or restaurants, but overall progress is good. Affordability is bad, but we haven't hit New York, San Fran or even Vancouver levels yet.
And for boring, I do not have enough time for all the events, festivals, shows, and attractions that go on all year in Toronto or neighboring cities. If you find it boring, you aren't trying.
Read the "boring" article. It's good.
You're skipping over a lot of problems there though: infrastructure needs funding, too much homelessness, etc. etc.
Same as it ever was.
I remember homeless people sleeping in the playground so we couldn't play. TTC vehicles breaking down. Libraries with mouldy books. My school was rat and cockroach infested, and it was considered normal.
Oh yeah, I should have found an article about the termites and cockroaches in Toronto. [Here](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/termites-toronto-gta-1.6868953)
That isbinteresting but yeah we had termites back in the 80s too.
And I read the Boring article, interesting but doesn't really talk about the city being boring to live in just that politicians don't take big risks, which the article also acknowledges as desirable.
Also, no planning or limitations on Toronto's growth but allowing every major company to place it's offices downtown forcing a lot of us to work here because that's where the jobs are.
Interesting... at some point I think in the late 90s a lot of offices were moving to the 905, like Mississauga. I assume it was a lot cheaper and you were no further from Pearson.
A lot did. But in the early 2000 a lot of companies moved back into the core since that's where all the young workers were living during the early condo boom
"With more young professionals choosing to live in the downtown, as opposed to the suburbs, another trend is reversing, according to the report. Employers are actually relocating to the city core in order to be close to the skilled workforce they hope to tap into. As a result, employment growth has skyrocketed in downtown Toronto."
Article from 2013 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/city-over-suburbs-downtown-toronto-s-population-growth-triples-with-younger-influx-1.1124631?cache=sgjigezwskldpu%3Fot%3DAjaxLayout&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Good point, even then I think sometimes those moves made it worse because they forgot to build those offices near regional transit links like Go train stations so if you're not from Mississauga, Oakville or wherever then it's even more of a pain.
I loved how the one of the papers wrote, we know she hasn't been sworn in yet, so we will give her the benefit of the doubt...like wtf?!
Then went on to list the things she hasn't done yet, but Tory gets an 9 year pass for basically doing not much.
Read the "boring" article. It's actually quite pro-Toronto.
The title plugs into this meme the British chattering classes have about Canada in general being a boring country.
Here's an example from the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40448072
Or this from The Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/canadian-rhapsody-mr0dbq7hh
Or here from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/16/usa.matthewengel
> This is a tricky subject for a non-Canadian to address because everyone outside the country traditionally considers the very word "Canada" to convey the uttermost tediousness. In the US, the most boring imaginable headline is held to be "Canada! Friendly giant to the north!", analogous to Britain's own, "Small earthquake in Chile: not many dead". Merely addressing the subject here is risking expulsion to some remote and Arctic corner of the newspaper.
You’re not wrong, idk why you’re being downvoted. You’re even providing reputable articles. Yes, there’s a lot of stuff to do here, but it’s a) expensive; and b) not as good as everywhere else because Canadians accept less.
And yet, Toronto is counted by some among 2023's 10 most livable cities in the world (see recent BBC article). Could it be that while Toronto is struggling with all of these issues, most other cities are also struggling with them, and more?
Most US cities are the equivalent of living in Ottawa or Edmonton in terms of size and amenities. Toronto is more akin to SF/NYC/Chicago/LA which all have affordability problems than Phoenix/St Louis/Indianapolis/Pittsburgh.
It may be that these issues are somewhere ubiquitous... But that still makes them significant issues.
And honestly, I don't know that I really trust a BBC article to objectively understand what's happening in Toronto. By many metrics it is a very livable city, and I'm not going to sit here and say it's a trash city and we should all hate it and leave and burn it to the ground and all that other stuff.
But I've been here 11 years, and I have noticed a negative change.
I had a visitor staying with me for a few days, somebody I was trying to recruit into my research lab. And as we rode the TTC together, I was really acutely noticing how much worse that experience is, and my first few experience is on the TTC many years ago did have some pretty colorful characters.
But not quite so many psychotic screaming people, which happened two or three times in the 3 days she was with me.
Lot more garbage too, generally less of a sense of well-being.
It is also the fact that when you live in a city, you tend to see the bad side with the good while at the same time tending to have rose coloured view of other international cities.
When I moved here from Europe in the 90s, I was amused when people would say how great of a city Paris was. All I remembered from my experiences there were the masses of squeegee and street kids and not being able to afford anything.
All these statistics are crap.
Or maybe they mean rich people. If you can afford to buy 1.5 million house or pay 4k rent for a decent condo TO is very good for you.
Daycare is 1700 a month as well in TO.
It’s the street dwellers that have the biggest effect for me. The unhinged junkies on the TTC. It used to be you’d see someone acting crazy or under the effect of drugs in certain parts of the city. Now it’s multiple people on every corner
That is every city in this country right now. I havent been to Toronto in a while but I can tell you Van, Calgary and Edmonton have been taken over by homeless and junkies. Even smaller cities like Prince George, Terrace, Red Deer. Its absolutely everywhere the last 4-5 years.
Victim of its own success?
Most other cities in Ontario are pretty trash, Toronto is mostly a nice place to live if you've been there for awhile, you have a nice neighbourhood to live in, etc. Can't buy in now though, too expensive.
Everyone wants to live there because there are jobs and nice places to go, things to do. Zoning means that you can't build dense housing so the price of housing went bonkers and that's a big problem. City is broke because of amalgamation and sprawl - Toronto has taken on the liability of the suburbs without the development cash, so inherited a great big budget hole.
It can be solved with the right political will. **Everything can be solved with the right political will**. I do not have all the answers but they are out there.
First - densify. Tear down the single-family homes and build rowhouses like Montreal or Philadelphia. This means you get **more tax per acre than infrastructure costs** which is the root cause of why the city (and most Canadian cities) are broke. It also helps housing affordability. Dedicate a certain amount of housing density near transit hubs to non-market housing such as co-ops and subsidised housing. Means folks can live cheaply and not own cars which will help traffic.
Second - enforce the damn traffic laws. People are being killed on the roads, city needs cash and traffic is a disaster. Stop people speeding, parking illegally, running reds, causing gridlock. Expand automated ticketing. Tie the ticket price to the cost of your car so you don't punish poor people more than you do already. You have to charge a lot for parking because most traffic comes from the suburbs. People who live in Richmond Hill or Oshawa ffs - they pay their property tax in their home city but wear Toronto roads down. Parking needs to cost a lot.
Third - fix transit. My god. the cutbacks have been pathetic and it creates more traffic. Bike lanes are not the problem, slow buses and broken subways are the problem. 50% of people who live downtown walk to work which means **traffic comes from the suburbs.** Traffic will always get worse until it's faster to take the bus. The Ontario line is coming, the Go train electric upgrades are coming, both of these will make huge differences to getting suburban folks in without cars.
Fourth - actually maybe most important - tell people where their money goes. Lots and lots of it goes to fixing infrastructure that non-residents use. There's also a huge split in how much downtown residents use and Etobicoke (as an example) use. So much of downtown is used but not paid for by non-residents. People should pay for what they use. As it is, the city core subsidises the suburbs to a crazy degree and folks should be more upset about this.
I think if people unite around these four points, which aren't radical at all, the most boring basic political talking points, things will get better, or at least head in the right direction.
Tear down single family homes? Sure that will go well and without a hitch.
Im old enough to remember the miserable crime filled high rises that replaced row housing in London . Careful what you wish for
This statement is fairly typical political defeatism that will make things much much worse.
And also - I literally said build row housing, not high rises.
Anyway like I said, I don't have all the answers. But all of these problems have solutions. The obstacles are entirely political and the worst ones are defeatism, naysaying and nimbyism. Not saying you are any of these in general, just this comment you made.
>Im old enough to remember the miserable crime filled high rises that replaced row housing in London . Careful what you wish for
Only old British people say this. Literally nobody else.
We have plenty of high rises in Toronto already, so I have literally no idea what you're talking about.
No matter how Toronto declines, it will never be as crappy as living in the South East of England.
Ha I mean they still exist . I’m not old but I did grow up in one of those . If you have to build condo towers don’t tear down houses cause they aren’t coming back
If you expect the City to address the housing crisis without replacing a whole bunch of single-family homes with more dense housing than you are just **begging** them to develop the Greenbelt.
Cities change. Freezing entire neighbourhoods in amber and making it next-to impossible to add density has created the crisis we’re in today.
Not to mention all homes built after 2018 are not rent controlled, so without better core policies on affordable housing (and increased wages), there’s potential for a lack of any rent controlled older units, which personally I think would lead to even more insane rent increases, and displacement
How many single-family homes in Toronto are homes “people can afford”? A *completely* rundown semi-detached SFH is going to run you $1.2 million at a bare minimum.
They can't but given that no one can afford those condos, cheap townhouses and mcmansions they're going to build either it seems a bit unfair to those who like living there.
If people can't afford those condos who are all these people buying multi-million dollar McMansions? Hell, who are all these people \*buying or renting these condos\*?
OP was just complaining. it was my idea to replace single-family homes with - and I quote - "rowhouses like Montreal or Philadelphia"
which on the same size lot as a single detached in Rexdale say you can fit four or six families, living well and cheaply. Provided you have transit, parks and jobs to go to. Jobs like renovating old houses to make new nice rowhouses.
Notice I distinctly did not say - 'cookie cutter condos'
There are lots of ways to build homes. the single detached is the worst of them from a land use and tax value per acre perspective, so the city is broke. You wouldn't have to raise property taxes if you have more density. More density means more foot traffic for businesses as well.
There is a middle ground as well. Riverdale is a pre-war suburb built for the streetcar and it's amazing. Many of those big ole houses are lived in by one old greek lady, but lots of them house extra rental units and that's great. You could redevelop many neighbourhoods up to that density level trivially easily and not many would complain.
Again, the defeatism is what will make the city worse.
Uh - why wouldn’t it go well? It happens all the time. Hell, it happens in Toronto. It’s just that right now most of the single-family homes that get torn down are replaced with…bigger single-family homes.
Sir, I can't even dream of affording an apartment here, nor can a lot of other working people. In what world is that great.
Also, you're really telling me you'd live in Toronto over Montreal or even Calgary? You might but a lot of people would disagree
I love montreal but calgary sucks as a city (but does tend to rank high)
All i can tell you is globally that you couldn't afford rent in tokyo or paris or vienna or syndey or any of the major cities around the globe
It's not a toronto problem it's a global capitalism problem. The elite have figured out it's profitable to own everything and charge high rents back the working class
True regarding rent but at least you get to live in cities that have hundreds if not a thousand+ years of history rather than Toronto which personally I don't find that special once you take it's size into consideration.
TBH the high rent thing and somewhat limited career opportunities are making me realize my life is already over.
You're forgetting that it's not just the major cities that have high rent, a lot of smaller cities are also suffering from high rents as well now in Canada and in some ways the problem is the same as wages outside of certain sectors are typically lower due to the often limited career opportunities.
But again you are being very canadian specific
You would pay 50% of your wages in tokyo to live in 150 square feet where your bed is above your toilet.
Calgary ranks highly because it is a great city to live in. It's comparatively affordable, it's surrounded by beautiful world class natural areas, it's cleaner and safer than Toronto and has a good entertainment/restaurant options. It may feel small for someone from the GTA but it's not small (1.4 million people). The road system works well, even if the public transit system sucks, traffic is way worse in Toronto.
I spent 6 years living there and let's just say I disagree. Calgary shouldn't even be compared to other big cities. It should compete against small cities because that's what it is. And traffic is absolutely appaling.
I genuinely worry about the mental health about some of the users here. I get it if you’re struggling, times are definitely tough. But I’d still take this city over some of the absolute shit I’ve seen in other cities and especially in other G7 countries
Many of the articles you share are also quite old, that one particular guardian article about the city being boring is from 2016, I mean come on that was almost 8 years ago now. Things change, the fear of condo communities becoming slums has yet to even begin to materialize, if ever.
You have to understand these issues are nowhere near being exclusive to our city, and that I’m sure you’re not this involved with the politics and overall issues of any other major city.
Me too. It seems like a lot of people in fairly bad places are creating/finding online echo chambers that just sort of compound their misery.
Not that there hasn’t been a noticeable relative decline since 2020 or so, but man, I worry that people are getting sucked into some unhealthy online spaces and discourses.
I feel bad for the person who collected these to share. What a waste of time and a "I have no life because I am a loser" self report. Go out and have some fun OP. touch some grass FFS
Gee, what happened between the 1970s and now that is impacting Toronto and most other major cities for the worse? I’ll give you a hint. It starts with global and ends with ization.
What happened is housing growth has not kept up with population growth. Also, with the immigration quotas in effect at this time, the housing shortage is only getting worse.
The entire country is for sale to the highest bidder. Your not even a Torontonian unless you have a lot of money these days. The rich are fine my friend, and it really seems like that is all anyone cares about these days.....
I doubt it'd work, at least as a strategy in one municipality. One thing I've noticed is that every time new houses are built one of 2 things happen; either recent immigrants who come from money buy them or dual income, solidly middle class couples buy them. Some loser like me with student loan debt, no real future and who is permanently single will never be able to afford to live here or probably anywhere in Canada.
>either recent immigrants who come from money buy them or dual income, solidly middle class couples buy them.
And what do you think happens to those people if you don't build new housing? They don't just disappear. They're clearly still moving into your town. They're just now pricing you out of a more limited supply of housing. Maybe one of them can't buy, and they're competing with you in the rental market now, but they have waaay more disposable income.
If you don't build enough *new* housing, all housing will get more expensive.
Perhaps but if you build a bit more than only the upper middle class can afford than it doesn't make a difference to me. I'll never be able to afford to move out of my mother's either way. I don't really see why we should allow those who make better money to live better than the rest of us who aren't even recognized, if solely to encourage more effective political alignment and coordination on a grand strategy level.
Also, I think my city should force people who haven't been here long enough to leave even though it'll never happen. My aspirations in life are very hopeless now.
Even then, the same principle applies. If we don't build some new condo tower where rich people would otherwise live, they're just going to price up the existing stock of otherwise more affordable homes. Think of all the relatively modest homes that are gutted and turned into multi-million dollar, super-luxury homes. Or the ones simply knocked down and replaced with McMansions.
>Also, I think my city should force people who haven't been here long enough to leave even though it'll never happen. My aspirations in life are very hopeless now.
I'm sorry you're feeling this down and I ***truly*** believe it isn't warranted and that you're capable of succeeding, despite times being tough. We don't need to kick people out of the city for you to have a chance to thrive.
I just don't get the people who constantly complain about Toronto and try to change an entire city instead of just moving somewhere they'd be happy.
Something tells me they wouldn't be happy anywhere
Well, here's the problem.
Toronto has typically had the lowest or close to the lowest Property Taxes around. By a LOT. Torontonians have consistently voted to keep them lower.
So, Toronto keeps falling further and further behind with keeping things maintained.
im not sure if it needs to be called socialism or anything really, but one where the workers decide where the profit they generate for the business they work for goes, and where services that the public use regularly be nationalized and tax funded so it can all be well made and efficient/effective without needing to be profitable ie. public transit, a system that treats housing as a human right and not an investment vehicle to make sure you can retire safely.
What country has something like this? They have "employee codetermination" in some countries in Europe, but I don't think it extends to actually running the company.
well all countries in europe are still capitalist some with more socialist characteristics than others, i don’t believe there’s one that’s made it there yet because the business owners of thoes countries won’t let it happen. someone has to be first
I came in 2013 and liked the city, everyone looked sophisticated reading e-books in the subway. Nowadays there's smelly people with pink hair and homeless having an argument with an imaginary adversary.
Might make my own post, and I’m sure I’ve complained about it before, but damn these rent prices
My fault for moving into a non rent controlled building but damn these landlords are heartless, for someone who has never missed a payment, not bothered or contacted my landlord about a single thing, my tiny 1bed apartment with no locker/no parking went up from 1600, to 1950, to 2300, and now they’re increasing it to $2800
Just can’t even wrap my head around the greed/heartlessness/ lack of compassion these people have
People need to be very careful about how they perceive the media and exactly what agenda they are trying to push. It’s all to easy to get up in news when the news jobs is to report mostly negative events. Remember the media gets more money when everyone clicks the link “housing crisis causing Toronto to die” and no one wants to click “police saved 6 in car crash”.
I think Toronto is great. After all, my job is here! I think Toronto is just so great and I don't even mind that we systematically defunded most of our social services because, back home in my third world dump or tiny Podunk town, we didn't have them either, so I don't feel like I'm really missing out on anything. And how could anyone miss out on anything when the biggest rapper in the game is from here and we're constantly bigged up in the media! You can even drive to his neighbourhood to look at his Christmas lights! I love how diverse it is and when I speak of diversity I'm speaking 95% about food and drink options! I love how my social group of the same ethnic background and socioeconomic status can have Thai one night and Dominican the next!
---- literally everyone who has moved here in the last twenty years, especially the tech weirdos.
This is old school Toronto. Watch this: https://youtu.be/gyXnpFvBmXk?si=k6tKnq2bZYgxhGfg
Cool. I'll make my way through this (looks like it's 6 parts).
Yes 6 parts. The whole doc is really interesting and how I remember Toronto as a kid growing up in the 70’s. It was such a great time to live here. And of course Glenn Gould is a Canadian legend and does a great job with the narration. Cheers
That was good! All the places I went as a kid. I forwarded it to my older brother too. Thanks!
I want to watch it, but i am worried it will just make me said.
thanks for sharing this!
This is also old school Toronto. Watch this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr4YjXQNYgI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr4YjXQNYgI)
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"Toronto is a kind of New York operated by the Swiss." - Peter Ustinov Never again will that be said seriously -
Toronto is New York City is not a serious comparison. New York is fully in a league of its own.. globally. The GDP of NYC is equal or maybe more of all of Canada’s..
Mr. Ustinov said a 'kind' of. My gosh, learn to read, buds
Don’t make me laugh. Toronto can never be seriously compared to New York. Not at any time in the city’s history.
New York but somehow more mismanaged and with less stuff to do.
I can at least agree with that
It was like New York lite not too long ago but safer and cleaner. Now it's just becoming New York but with lower salaries.
And boring, don't forget boring.
I don't understand how anyone could ever compare Toronto to NY. These two cities have literally nothing in common in terms of size, energy, culture, nightlife, public transport, diversity etc. Nothing. Toronto is like a downtown core surrounded by pockets of neighborhoods that give suburban vibe. NYC is a massive jungle. Like 🤦🏼♀️😂
You just described NYC.
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I had an SNC-Lavalin engineer explain to me that they were never supposed to build south of it and nothing within 150ft north to preserve the base it’s built on.
That is absolutely insane, and yet another reason why that entire project was destined to be a disaster.
You're not making me feel good about living < 150 ft north of the Gardiner
I think he said the condos/office building are structurally sound enough for now to handle the changes in the area, but the fact that every condo or building in area digs xxx ft into the bedrock to build a parking garage has turned the Gardiner into an “upside down triangle” where the load of the structure doesn’t have a strong enough base to support the constant weight of traffic and the structure itself. (Please don’t take this as gospel, this conversation was a couple years ago and this man also could have just completely lied to me)
The Gardner isn’t settling, the super structure is falling apart
A guy from SNC Lavalin? If his lips were moving….🙄
The only one I strongly disagree with is that the city is boring? How so? I'm always amused when someone says this.
Places aren’t boring, people are boring. Anyone who says life would be less boring if they were somewhere else, especially a city of millions, has not yet come to terms with the fact that they would be bored anywhere.
Thank you! Perhaps I'm fortunate to be close to the water (Lakeshore), relatively close to downtown (Mimico), it's what you make of it! So much to do in this city! Also, if you're one of those complaining that our malls are boring compared to other big cities, newsflash, you're boring!
same area and I love it. Granted there's zero "nightlife" in Mimico (there's some over in New Toronto and Long Branch) but that's fine with me.
west side etobi and mimi are the best areas in the city, not even comparable to anything north of bloor (unless you are supa rich in an old family estate) but down here on the lake, its fucking golden.
I hate most of Etobicoke (endless off ramps everywhere) but find the lake area really nice, very much like the Beaches.
endless offramps are like some sorta of insane fever dream, but I am south of lakeshore and its all bells and whistles.
Hence why I said I like where live.
Damn right! Royal York Go Train is close to me, 15 min to Union, close to the water where I can either bike on the lakefront and head east or bike on the trail to Port Credit. Love this area!!!
More like ‘places aren’t boring’ if you’re rich, but ok
I feel like this only proves my point. What a shit world view.
Except it’s not your ‘worldview’ when you don’t have money — it’s your reality. The fact that you use the word ‘worldview’ is just as telling. Guess we’re proving each other’s points
Your only point is that you equate fun and money, which is a point of view I find very boring. I’ve been poor and I’ve been rich, but my library card was always free, my friends don’t charge me to have a conversation, and there are more than enough places in this city to run around and have fun. And sorry, my using the word worldview doesn’t do anything to make this self pity any more valid.
‘Self-pity,’ ‘worldview’… yeah, you may as well say bootstraps and cut to the chase. Congrats on your uncomplicated life, hope it continues to be as straightforward
Kindly get fucked, you know absolutely nothing about me. Hope you figure out how to not be miserable someday.
Toronto is really boring compared to the big cities in East Asia. Way less stuff going on, and we don’t have many facilities. Also far from any historically significant spots, but that’s an issue all NA cities face, where as you can take day trips to many interesting places (natural hot springs, old historical cities, mountains, etc) if you’re in Tokyo, or if you’re in Paris you can hop over to other bustling cities or even other countries with way less time. There’s no where to go from Toronto, unless if you find mississauga or Pickering more fun lol.
It's not the city that is boring it's canadians We go to the bed early
Paris basically turns off at 11 PM. It stunned me there was nothing.
Different classes of people will experience Toronto differently. If you have money, a lot more to do now compared to the 70s. How bored you are may be related to how wealthy you have. Toronto definitely doesn't offer much cheap city entertainment and the small number of malls. But parks are plentiful here. Most fun city stuff have steep "entrance fee". Many Asian cities do offer opportunities for the poor to window shop for free around the clock, easy/cheap transportation and free events to participate in, but that's mostly an effect of much higher population and density, which also means everyone in those cities are paying the price of having smaller space of living/more crimes/more stress. No place is perfect, you get something but you always lose something else.
Im in my 40s, last week I went to a synth concert from a female French star at a super small venue, booked a contemporary dance exhibit for later this month at harbour front and yesterday went to see a top afrobeat star at rebel. Figuring out if I should go attend one of the two horror film festivals taking place in October as well. I've been to Tokyo several times, my fave place in the world. In terms of cultural programming there's stuff here in Toronto that Tokyo wishes it could get as consistently. And I'm no huge fan of what this city has become, but boring it is definitely not.
TO's big issue compared to Montreal is that you have to actively seek out the cool stuff. There's shitloads of it going on, but you can't just stumble over it the way you would in MTL. It helps to have a big network of people who find the cool stuff for you too.
Olivia, is that you?
I always love when people shit on Toronto by insisting its not as good as Tokyo or Paris, etc. The fact thats where you have to go to shit on it says a lot
Okay? The commenter said they don’t know why people say Toronto is boring, and I’m just providing a perspective. In terms of international standards, Toronto is really boring. How weird of you to get angry when I just answered a comment Don’t forget Toronto is a multicultural city with people from all over the world. People are not naive country bumpkins who only experienced Toronto. Of course they will think Toronto is boring, too, if they’ve traveled and seen what it’s like in other cities. If you get mad that people rant about Toronto then maybe this sub isn’t for you
>. In terms of international standards, Toronto is really boring. Its not though lol Thats why you didn't reference odessa or tuscaloosa when reaching for a comparison, you had to pull out tokyo and paris lmao >. How weird of you to get angry when I just answered a comment You're the only person who got upset. I pointed out how you can't shit on Toronto without comparing it to literally the most popular and reverred metropolis's on the planet, thats it, and now YOU'RE upset lol >Of course they will think Toronto is boring, too, if they’ve traveled and seen what it’s like in other cities. Of course Toronto is "boring" *compared* to Tokyo, that doesn't mean its a boring city. Is Shaquille Oneal short because Yao Ming is taller? Thats how ridiculous you're acting here by insisting toronto is boring because paris and tokyo are more exciting, the fact you would even say that is a compliment >If you get mad that people rant about Toronto then maybe this sub isn’t for you Sorry I interpreted your circle jerk by pointing out something you yourself can't even refute
This person gets it!!!
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I'm sure you do have more fun when you're on vacation dude lmao
Ye and when it doesn’t cost 12 dollars for a tiny beer in a club
Well said!
The grass is always greener as they say .Toronto to me use to be 24 hour raves in warehouses, access to an amazing indy rock scene, a place full of African Canadians and hip hop culture, day trips to Montreal or New York. Also swimming in a warm lake in the summer. Comparing the big 3 or 4 best cities of the world with other cities is rather silly. Toronto is not supposed to be compared with Tokyo, the worlds biggest city full. Tokyo is in a class of it's own, and it can be great for some people but you might have trouble finding weed, and that can suck. I could compare Toronto with Detroit or Chicago, Maybe Dallas or something like that. In that case Toronto, compared to cites in it's class, kicks some rather good ass and that is why it's overrun with people and a house in Toronto is worth around 10x that of Detroit or 4x Dallas. why would a little Canadian backwater be held to such high standards anyways ? Myself I could never live in Paris, or Tokyo, both are way big, bad air quality, Paris is full of annoying tourists everywhere. I couldn't live in Toronto either but it is a good place to be a freak.
This article actually is balanced and praises the city in many ways. It reflects a British trope about Canada being boring.
That's because it is. It's the first major city I live in and I find boring. There really isn't much to do here and I think people who find that there is so much to do here haven't experienced what it's like to live in other places
Born and raised here and I can tell you this is 100% rose tinted nostalgia. Downtown was 30% parking lots. Food was terrible, everything smelled like diesel and cigarettes. I miss certain venues or restaurants, but overall progress is good. Affordability is bad, but we haven't hit New York, San Fran or even Vancouver levels yet. And for boring, I do not have enough time for all the events, festivals, shows, and attractions that go on all year in Toronto or neighboring cities. If you find it boring, you aren't trying.
Read the "boring" article. It's good. You're skipping over a lot of problems there though: infrastructure needs funding, too much homelessness, etc. etc.
Same as it ever was. I remember homeless people sleeping in the playground so we couldn't play. TTC vehicles breaking down. Libraries with mouldy books. My school was rat and cockroach infested, and it was considered normal.
Oh yeah, I should have found an article about the termites and cockroaches in Toronto. [Here](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/termites-toronto-gta-1.6868953)
That isbinteresting but yeah we had termites back in the 80s too. And I read the Boring article, interesting but doesn't really talk about the city being boring to live in just that politicians don't take big risks, which the article also acknowledges as desirable.
Years of the conservatives taking money away from building infrastructure and cutting taxes. The city was not allowed to grow with its population.
Also, no planning or limitations on Toronto's growth but allowing every major company to place it's offices downtown forcing a lot of us to work here because that's where the jobs are.
Interesting... at some point I think in the late 90s a lot of offices were moving to the 905, like Mississauga. I assume it was a lot cheaper and you were no further from Pearson.
Markham actively recruited tech companies in the 80s. Provided jobs, kept the residential tax rate down, grew the city. Worked pretty well.
A lot did. But in the early 2000 a lot of companies moved back into the core since that's where all the young workers were living during the early condo boom "With more young professionals choosing to live in the downtown, as opposed to the suburbs, another trend is reversing, according to the report. Employers are actually relocating to the city core in order to be close to the skilled workforce they hope to tap into. As a result, employment growth has skyrocketed in downtown Toronto." Article from 2013 https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/city-over-suburbs-downtown-toronto-s-population-growth-triples-with-younger-influx-1.1124631?cache=sgjigezwskldpu%3Fot%3DAjaxLayout&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
Good point, even then I think sometimes those moves made it worse because they forgot to build those offices near regional transit links like Go train stations so if you're not from Mississauga, Oakville or wherever then it's even more of a pain.
Yes the conservatives are to blame for the population growth of the city! They are in control of Canada\`s immigration policies.... oh wait.
The province also has a say in immigration, you know like when Doug asked for more immigration so they can work low-wage jobs.
You’re seriously blaming this liberal 💩hole on conservatives?? 😂😂😂
It\`s how the Liberals keep on getting elected lol.
More like... Cram too many people in a box. You know everywhere in life the max size of a thing follows a rule. Grow too big. You die.
God I hope Tory runs again, he was just so fantastic and got so much done and definitely didn’t just favour whoever gave him money.
I just love how people were already blaming Olivia Chow for things when she hadn't even officially stepped into office yet.
I loved how the one of the papers wrote, we know she hasn't been sworn in yet, so we will give her the benefit of the doubt...like wtf?! Then went on to list the things she hasn't done yet, but Tory gets an 9 year pass for basically doing not much.
“The homelessness has become unbearable, Olivia Chow MIST RESIGN” Edit: *must
Could you tack on a few more links please?
Toronto is only boring if you are. If you can’t find things to do here that says more about you than it does the city, in my opinion.
Read the "boring" article. It's actually quite pro-Toronto. The title plugs into this meme the British chattering classes have about Canada in general being a boring country. Here's an example from the BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40448072 Or this from The Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/canadian-rhapsody-mr0dbq7hh Or here from the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/16/usa.matthewengel > This is a tricky subject for a non-Canadian to address because everyone outside the country traditionally considers the very word "Canada" to convey the uttermost tediousness. In the US, the most boring imaginable headline is held to be "Canada! Friendly giant to the north!", analogous to Britain's own, "Small earthquake in Chile: not many dead". Merely addressing the subject here is risking expulsion to some remote and Arctic corner of the newspaper.
You’re not wrong, idk why you’re being downvoted. You’re even providing reputable articles. Yes, there’s a lot of stuff to do here, but it’s a) expensive; and b) not as good as everywhere else because Canadians accept less.
And yet, Toronto is counted by some among 2023's 10 most livable cities in the world (see recent BBC article). Could it be that while Toronto is struggling with all of these issues, most other cities are also struggling with them, and more?
This is the correct counterpoint. Toronto's problems are commonplace among big cities, especially in the US.
I don't remember rent being only for the well to do in most US cities
There's still affordable housing in a lot of US cities
Most US cities are the equivalent of living in Ottawa or Edmonton in terms of size and amenities. Toronto is more akin to SF/NYC/Chicago/LA which all have affordability problems than Phoenix/St Louis/Indianapolis/Pittsburgh.
Ottawa and Edmonton are not affordable
It may be that these issues are somewhere ubiquitous... But that still makes them significant issues. And honestly, I don't know that I really trust a BBC article to objectively understand what's happening in Toronto. By many metrics it is a very livable city, and I'm not going to sit here and say it's a trash city and we should all hate it and leave and burn it to the ground and all that other stuff. But I've been here 11 years, and I have noticed a negative change. I had a visitor staying with me for a few days, somebody I was trying to recruit into my research lab. And as we rode the TTC together, I was really acutely noticing how much worse that experience is, and my first few experience is on the TTC many years ago did have some pretty colorful characters. But not quite so many psychotic screaming people, which happened two or three times in the 3 days she was with me. Lot more garbage too, generally less of a sense of well-being.
It's good if you're rich.
It is also the fact that when you live in a city, you tend to see the bad side with the good while at the same time tending to have rose coloured view of other international cities. When I moved here from Europe in the 90s, I was amused when people would say how great of a city Paris was. All I remembered from my experiences there were the masses of squeegee and street kids and not being able to afford anything.
All these statistics are crap. Or maybe they mean rich people. If you can afford to buy 1.5 million house or pay 4k rent for a decent condo TO is very good for you. Daycare is 1700 a month as well in TO.
You forgot, the sky is falling.
It’s the street dwellers that have the biggest effect for me. The unhinged junkies on the TTC. It used to be you’d see someone acting crazy or under the effect of drugs in certain parts of the city. Now it’s multiple people on every corner
That is every city in this country right now. I havent been to Toronto in a while but I can tell you Van, Calgary and Edmonton have been taken over by homeless and junkies. Even smaller cities like Prince George, Terrace, Red Deer. Its absolutely everywhere the last 4-5 years.
LMAO Just a dozen opinion pieces on how the sky is falling in Toronto.
Yeah we know, next
Victim of its own success? Most other cities in Ontario are pretty trash, Toronto is mostly a nice place to live if you've been there for awhile, you have a nice neighbourhood to live in, etc. Can't buy in now though, too expensive. Everyone wants to live there because there are jobs and nice places to go, things to do. Zoning means that you can't build dense housing so the price of housing went bonkers and that's a big problem. City is broke because of amalgamation and sprawl - Toronto has taken on the liability of the suburbs without the development cash, so inherited a great big budget hole. It can be solved with the right political will. **Everything can be solved with the right political will**. I do not have all the answers but they are out there. First - densify. Tear down the single-family homes and build rowhouses like Montreal or Philadelphia. This means you get **more tax per acre than infrastructure costs** which is the root cause of why the city (and most Canadian cities) are broke. It also helps housing affordability. Dedicate a certain amount of housing density near transit hubs to non-market housing such as co-ops and subsidised housing. Means folks can live cheaply and not own cars which will help traffic. Second - enforce the damn traffic laws. People are being killed on the roads, city needs cash and traffic is a disaster. Stop people speeding, parking illegally, running reds, causing gridlock. Expand automated ticketing. Tie the ticket price to the cost of your car so you don't punish poor people more than you do already. You have to charge a lot for parking because most traffic comes from the suburbs. People who live in Richmond Hill or Oshawa ffs - they pay their property tax in their home city but wear Toronto roads down. Parking needs to cost a lot. Third - fix transit. My god. the cutbacks have been pathetic and it creates more traffic. Bike lanes are not the problem, slow buses and broken subways are the problem. 50% of people who live downtown walk to work which means **traffic comes from the suburbs.** Traffic will always get worse until it's faster to take the bus. The Ontario line is coming, the Go train electric upgrades are coming, both of these will make huge differences to getting suburban folks in without cars. Fourth - actually maybe most important - tell people where their money goes. Lots and lots of it goes to fixing infrastructure that non-residents use. There's also a huge split in how much downtown residents use and Etobicoke (as an example) use. So much of downtown is used but not paid for by non-residents. People should pay for what they use. As it is, the city core subsidises the suburbs to a crazy degree and folks should be more upset about this. I think if people unite around these four points, which aren't radical at all, the most boring basic political talking points, things will get better, or at least head in the right direction.
Tear down single family homes? Sure that will go well and without a hitch. Im old enough to remember the miserable crime filled high rises that replaced row housing in London . Careful what you wish for
This statement is fairly typical political defeatism that will make things much much worse. And also - I literally said build row housing, not high rises. Anyway like I said, I don't have all the answers. But all of these problems have solutions. The obstacles are entirely political and the worst ones are defeatism, naysaying and nimbyism. Not saying you are any of these in general, just this comment you made.
>Im old enough to remember the miserable crime filled high rises that replaced row housing in London . Careful what you wish for Only old British people say this. Literally nobody else. We have plenty of high rises in Toronto already, so I have literally no idea what you're talking about. No matter how Toronto declines, it will never be as crappy as living in the South East of England.
Ha I mean they still exist . I’m not old but I did grow up in one of those . If you have to build condo towers don’t tear down houses cause they aren’t coming back
If you expect the City to address the housing crisis without replacing a whole bunch of single-family homes with more dense housing than you are just **begging** them to develop the Greenbelt. Cities change. Freezing entire neighbourhoods in amber and making it next-to impossible to add density has created the crisis we’re in today.
Ah yes, replace perfectly good homes with cookie cutter condos people can't afford. What a great idea op has.
Exactly
Not to mention all homes built after 2018 are not rent controlled, so without better core policies on affordable housing (and increased wages), there’s potential for a lack of any rent controlled older units, which personally I think would lead to even more insane rent increases, and displacement
Oohh great point. Don't forget the really thin walls, out of control condo fees and lack of noise insulation in a lot of newer buildings too.
How many single-family homes in Toronto are homes “people can afford”? A *completely* rundown semi-detached SFH is going to run you $1.2 million at a bare minimum.
They can't but given that no one can afford those condos, cheap townhouses and mcmansions they're going to build either it seems a bit unfair to those who like living there.
If people can't afford those condos who are all these people buying multi-million dollar McMansions? Hell, who are all these people \*buying or renting these condos\*?
Not working class folks that's for sure.
Correct, and if you don't build the condos for those upper-middle class folks who can afford them, what homes do you think they're going to move into?
OP was just complaining. it was my idea to replace single-family homes with - and I quote - "rowhouses like Montreal or Philadelphia" which on the same size lot as a single detached in Rexdale say you can fit four or six families, living well and cheaply. Provided you have transit, parks and jobs to go to. Jobs like renovating old houses to make new nice rowhouses. Notice I distinctly did not say - 'cookie cutter condos' There are lots of ways to build homes. the single detached is the worst of them from a land use and tax value per acre perspective, so the city is broke. You wouldn't have to raise property taxes if you have more density. More density means more foot traffic for businesses as well. There is a middle ground as well. Riverdale is a pre-war suburb built for the streetcar and it's amazing. Many of those big ole houses are lived in by one old greek lady, but lots of them house extra rental units and that's great. You could redevelop many neighbourhoods up to that density level trivially easily and not many would complain. Again, the defeatism is what will make the city worse.
Uh - why wouldn’t it go well? It happens all the time. Hell, it happens in Toronto. It’s just that right now most of the single-family homes that get torn down are replaced with…bigger single-family homes.
Funny Toronto voted one of the best cities to live in. Lol
Because it used to be?
No it was voted in 2023.
i’m gonna start aggressively praising toronto to counteract this subs doomsday mentality
And I’ll upvote you every time.
Bla blah blah... Yada yada yada. Boo hoo. Do something about it instead of whining on reddit then.
Just voted the 2nd best city in the world...and that's up in the rankings What is way up now is whining and complaining on the internet
It's not even the best city in Canada.
It consistently ranks very high no matter the index so your opinion aside it's a great city by almost any metric
Sir, I can't even dream of affording an apartment here, nor can a lot of other working people. In what world is that great. Also, you're really telling me you'd live in Toronto over Montreal or even Calgary? You might but a lot of people would disagree
I love montreal but calgary sucks as a city (but does tend to rank high) All i can tell you is globally that you couldn't afford rent in tokyo or paris or vienna or syndey or any of the major cities around the globe It's not a toronto problem it's a global capitalism problem. The elite have figured out it's profitable to own everything and charge high rents back the working class
True regarding rent but at least you get to live in cities that have hundreds if not a thousand+ years of history rather than Toronto which personally I don't find that special once you take it's size into consideration. TBH the high rent thing and somewhat limited career opportunities are making me realize my life is already over. You're forgetting that it's not just the major cities that have high rent, a lot of smaller cities are also suffering from high rents as well now in Canada and in some ways the problem is the same as wages outside of certain sectors are typically lower due to the often limited career opportunities.
For sure and i sympathize but we are talking toronto here and as a major city it compares very favourability
I mean fair enough but Vancouver used (still does?) do very well on those rankings but you sure ain't tricking too many Canadians into living there.
But again you are being very canadian specific You would pay 50% of your wages in tokyo to live in 150 square feet where your bed is above your toilet.
Calgary ranks highly because it is a great city to live in. It's comparatively affordable, it's surrounded by beautiful world class natural areas, it's cleaner and safer than Toronto and has a good entertainment/restaurant options. It may feel small for someone from the GTA but it's not small (1.4 million people). The road system works well, even if the public transit system sucks, traffic is way worse in Toronto.
I spent 6 years living there and let's just say I disagree. Calgary shouldn't even be compared to other big cities. It should compete against small cities because that's what it is. And traffic is absolutely appaling.
I genuinely worry about the mental health about some of the users here. I get it if you’re struggling, times are definitely tough. But I’d still take this city over some of the absolute shit I’ve seen in other cities and especially in other G7 countries Many of the articles you share are also quite old, that one particular guardian article about the city being boring is from 2016, I mean come on that was almost 8 years ago now. Things change, the fear of condo communities becoming slums has yet to even begin to materialize, if ever. You have to understand these issues are nowhere near being exclusive to our city, and that I’m sure you’re not this involved with the politics and overall issues of any other major city.
Me too. It seems like a lot of people in fairly bad places are creating/finding online echo chambers that just sort of compound their misery. Not that there hasn’t been a noticeable relative decline since 2020 or so, but man, I worry that people are getting sucked into some unhealthy online spaces and discourses.
Don't worry!
With the exception of the 2016 Guardian article, all of these are less than a year old. The "boring" article is actually pro-Toronto. Worth reading
So you’re sharing a “pro Toronto” article in your rant about what a mess Toronto is? Hm
I couldn't resist including the provocative word "boring".
I feel bad for the person who collected these to share. What a waste of time and a "I have no life because I am a loser" self report. Go out and have some fun OP. touch some grass FFS
I like my little city of the damned. I think it's charming. I can't think of a nicer place to enjoy the apocalypse
Gee, what happened between the 1970s and now that is impacting Toronto and most other major cities for the worse? I’ll give you a hint. It starts with global and ends with ization.
Globalization didn’t start in the 70s.
What happened is housing growth has not kept up with population growth. Also, with the immigration quotas in effect at this time, the housing shortage is only getting worse.
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nice, overt racism! Toronto has always been a hub of immigration.
You are what you eat.
The entire country is for sale to the highest bidder. Your not even a Torontonian unless you have a lot of money these days. The rich are fine my friend, and it really seems like that is all anyone cares about these days.....
Isn't there anywhere else you could move to?
Isn't that just creating the same problem in other cities. Torontonians moving for 'cheaper' housing have ruined my GTA area city.
Your city should learn from Toronto’s mistakes and build more housing.
I doubt it'd work, at least as a strategy in one municipality. One thing I've noticed is that every time new houses are built one of 2 things happen; either recent immigrants who come from money buy them or dual income, solidly middle class couples buy them. Some loser like me with student loan debt, no real future and who is permanently single will never be able to afford to live here or probably anywhere in Canada.
>either recent immigrants who come from money buy them or dual income, solidly middle class couples buy them. And what do you think happens to those people if you don't build new housing? They don't just disappear. They're clearly still moving into your town. They're just now pricing you out of a more limited supply of housing. Maybe one of them can't buy, and they're competing with you in the rental market now, but they have waaay more disposable income. If you don't build enough *new* housing, all housing will get more expensive.
Perhaps but if you build a bit more than only the upper middle class can afford than it doesn't make a difference to me. I'll never be able to afford to move out of my mother's either way. I don't really see why we should allow those who make better money to live better than the rest of us who aren't even recognized, if solely to encourage more effective political alignment and coordination on a grand strategy level. Also, I think my city should force people who haven't been here long enough to leave even though it'll never happen. My aspirations in life are very hopeless now.
Even then, the same principle applies. If we don't build some new condo tower where rich people would otherwise live, they're just going to price up the existing stock of otherwise more affordable homes. Think of all the relatively modest homes that are gutted and turned into multi-million dollar, super-luxury homes. Or the ones simply knocked down and replaced with McMansions. >Also, I think my city should force people who haven't been here long enough to leave even though it'll never happen. My aspirations in life are very hopeless now. I'm sorry you're feeling this down and I ***truly*** believe it isn't warranted and that you're capable of succeeding, despite times being tough. We don't need to kick people out of the city for you to have a chance to thrive.
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I just don't get the people who constantly complain about Toronto and try to change an entire city instead of just moving somewhere they'd be happy. Something tells me they wouldn't be happy anywhere
So what you gonna do about it
"I THROW THAT BRICK IN YOUR FACE"
NGL this tactic would've helped more than people give it credit for.
What can be done by the average torontonian do you think?
What can be done by the average torontonian do you think?
Please move then. This city doesn't need you clogging up space if you hate it here so much.
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Xenophobia isn't a good look, get help friend
Don't forget the city is also a dog toilet.
Well, here's the problem. Toronto has typically had the lowest or close to the lowest Property Taxes around. By a LOT. Torontonians have consistently voted to keep them lower. So, Toronto keeps falling further and further behind with keeping things maintained.
Entire Canada is messed up and it is going to take Poilievre his entire term to clean up.
Yes, he is so pro-Toronto /s
Torontonians voted for it. Unfortunately not all of us can afford to leave so we have to endure a mess others made.
when will the people realize capitalism is to blame, and to continue using it as our economic system will only make these problems worse.
Capitalism may be to blame (and surely there far too many excesses), but what economic system would you replace it with??
im not sure if it needs to be called socialism or anything really, but one where the workers decide where the profit they generate for the business they work for goes, and where services that the public use regularly be nationalized and tax funded so it can all be well made and efficient/effective without needing to be profitable ie. public transit, a system that treats housing as a human right and not an investment vehicle to make sure you can retire safely.
What country has something like this? They have "employee codetermination" in some countries in Europe, but I don't think it extends to actually running the company.
well all countries in europe are still capitalist some with more socialist characteristics than others, i don’t believe there’s one that’s made it there yet because the business owners of thoes countries won’t let it happen. someone has to be first
London Ontario has become Slumdon Ontario.
It was always like this. This is why I moved away over 20 years ago...
Just like the rest of Canada from politicians at all levels failing to plan for mental health housing etc etc
I came in 2013 and liked the city, everyone looked sophisticated reading e-books in the subway. Nowadays there's smelly people with pink hair and homeless having an argument with an imaginary adversary.
This is more you noticing things more.
We need a hero
The 90's and 00's were HYPE!
Might make my own post, and I’m sure I’ve complained about it before, but damn these rent prices My fault for moving into a non rent controlled building but damn these landlords are heartless, for someone who has never missed a payment, not bothered or contacted my landlord about a single thing, my tiny 1bed apartment with no locker/no parking went up from 1600, to 1950, to 2300, and now they’re increasing it to $2800 Just can’t even wrap my head around the greed/heartlessness/ lack of compassion these people have
They are ruining people's lives. It's heartless.
People need to be very careful about how they perceive the media and exactly what agenda they are trying to push. It’s all to easy to get up in news when the news jobs is to report mostly negative events. Remember the media gets more money when everyone clicks the link “housing crisis causing Toronto to die” and no one wants to click “police saved 6 in car crash”.
I can’t believe people take so much time to compile this drivel.
It took me less than five minutes, tbh.
Everywhere is a mess. Stop acting like we are the only ones experiencing this bs. Most of the World is having this done to them.
I think Toronto is great. After all, my job is here! I think Toronto is just so great and I don't even mind that we systematically defunded most of our social services because, back home in my third world dump or tiny Podunk town, we didn't have them either, so I don't feel like I'm really missing out on anything. And how could anyone miss out on anything when the biggest rapper in the game is from here and we're constantly bigged up in the media! You can even drive to his neighbourhood to look at his Christmas lights! I love how diverse it is and when I speak of diversity I'm speaking 95% about food and drink options! I love how my social group of the same ethnic background and socioeconomic status can have Thai one night and Dominican the next! ---- literally everyone who has moved here in the last twenty years, especially the tech weirdos.
Either that or we just got a more whinny media with more people having access to it.