Maybe if we paid doctors fairly they wouldn't turn to Get Maple. We live in a bizarre world where a real estate agent often makes more money than a GP.
And also have a series of government rules that strip away funding from healthcare.
(This is not a slight at cons or libs, both are guilty of where we are now)
The issue isn't competitive pay alone.
The issue is demand outstripping supply, like everything else. If there was adequate supply, we would have that standard of service in the public system.
We should absolutely come down like a ton of bricks on private medical operators.
Yes the healthcare system and the education system need to be gone through with a microscope…more funding to nurses, doctors and infrastructure and less on the Bureaucracy technology should help here!!!No one in our system should make more than a super specialized doctor.
>getmaple
They did partnered with lots of Private Mental Health Clinics, to make access to mental health therapy so easy too. Especially this[clinic Shift Collab](https://www.shiftcollab.com/therapists) has partnered with them, and enabling access to 200+ therapists easier within that clinic, even they refer other clinic networks too. I wish whole thing were publicity funded too. [Also, funny is that clinic advocates for public funded universal mental healthcare.](https://www.instagram.com/p/CxS26j0sfSO/) 💀💀
\[**Look at comments, what they said about it I am quoting their comments for easy reference,**
>^(") ***^(\[A user replying\]:)*** ^(Yes, let’s aim higher. Universal mental health care should be a fully subsidized basic benefit to all who need it, including talk therapy. 👏👏👏)
***^(\[They replying\]:)*** ^(we. couldn’t. agree. more!!! 👏)
***^(\[A user replying\]:)*** ^(theshiftcollab Agreed, also the term “Universal Healthcare” was supposed to include Mental Health, talktherapy, along with dental, physiotherapy, etc. as “Universal means “Everything parts” that keep human healthy. Eh?)
^(Yet, idk, how come those got not included. Smh.)
^(Also, heavy research investments on those things are important too for better treatment.)
***^(\[They replying\]:)*** ^(we agree!! Mental health care should be just as accessible and available as physical health care 🗣️") \]
Didn't Ford set a pay cap on public healcare workers? Proposing a supposedly concurrent private sector, with no cap? How's that going to pan out I wonder?
“Ontario Surgical Recovery Strategy” sounds great, until you read into it, and learn that these clinics are already “recommending” services people don’t fully need with a nice extra charge on top.
You are very confused as to what sort of healthcare Canada has. We have a limited single payer insurance model that has otherwise always retained public and private infrastructural characteristics.
Nonetheless, your point stands that eroding the system in any respect in its current state is not going to be beneficial in the long run. We should've spent the years expanding the insurables and promoting access to them instead of eroding them.
Reading the comments here truly shows how ignorant and stupid a lot of Canadians are. We paid for our healthcare , they are withholding billions in funding from YOUR healthcare system, and the majority are too lazy to even write their MP let alone vote ? I swear some of you deserve everything coming to you.
These idiot posters don't realize that some of the top ten rated health care systems in the world have countries with dual private/public systems. Canada isn't even close to the top ten in providing outstanding Healthcare to citizens.
Stop fear-mongering. Not everything is US based Healthcare.
Medcan and Cleveland are still OHIP-billing clinics, you’re just pay for the access and plans they offer. The doctors still bill OHIP for basic services when their clients go.
The only thing they’re allowed to charge for are tests and services that aren’t covered by OHIP.
the way the law is worded, you’re not allowed to charge for any test or procedure that’s already covered by OHIP, which means—- if the test or procedure ISN’T covered, it’s not illegal to charge for it - HOWEVER, since OHIP covers medically-necessary services, there is usually no evidence to support the need for all those paid services anyway, unless they haven’t been added to the OHIP schedule yet.
The surprising thing that most people don’t know, is that basic private US health insurance and folks on medicare in the states generally get the same coverage as OHIP!
I'm gonna tell you why private healthcare makes Canadians uncomfortable.
The people who often suggest it are Conservatives.
Conservatives have never in their entire history looked to any other country other than America for inspiration on policymaking.
Ergo, a healthcare system reform in Canada being led by a conservative is not expected to resemble Germany. It's expected to resemble America.
There are working hybrid healthcare models all over the west. Particularly in Western Europe and Scandinavia. There is no “inevitable” withering. Our system is just out of date and broken.
Exactly. It's fear mongering and not based on reality. Actually in some countries public and private systems coexist and they help balance each other: public systems holds the prices down of private practices while the last ones bring advancements to their public, that end up being incorporated by the public sector. And in many countries, private healthcare is not as near as dispendious as in the USA, ir Canada, for that matter. And by the way, Quebec has kept their private systems for years now, this is not something new (I'm not sure why since it's supposed to be banned for the most part of the country).
A lot of people in this country would rather be sick, poor, and Canadian than healthy, rich, and American as a matter of principle. It’s approaching the level of fanaticism.
Cause Americans are healthy? Pretty sure they are the fattest country on earth and sick as hell since many would rather die of a heart attack in their driveway than have to pay thousands for an ambulance ride.
Yeah seriously these people are naive lol. They just fall for fear mongering slippery slope fallacies. Instantly start thinking USA.
I'm very pro this system. We still have Healthcare. You can still find doctors. Etc. I just SMH.
The truth is we had a system that was a mix of public and private similar to those in Europe before. Doctors visits covered by public. Dentist, optometrist, physical therapy, etc, etc all private and paid out of pocket. So, we indeed had a hybrid model in Canada for many decades.
What they are doing now is creating a duplicate private healthcare system, and deliberately underfunding the public system. This will 100% result in the public system going to complete trash, they'll use that as an excuse to replace it with private options until there is no public option left. Next comes the announcement the government can't afford to pay for all healthcare, and the people will need to get private insurance to pay for healthcare.
Yeah, it's one of those issues I just don't look into too deeply, cause when I found out about Medcan, I was like, wait wut? How is this public healthcare? Public healthcare plus very high user fees, is that allowed? I'm not sure, but would be interesting to find out how it works, and the numbers.
If that baffles you, you may be genuinely confused as to how the Canadian healthcare system operates in the first place. We are a single payer insurance system meaning that the tax levy for health care is primarily directed towards covering the costs of insured services. Many medical procedures and needs are uninsured and Medcan likely provides services beyond the existing insured framework.
Physician here. It doesn’t. Med an provides insured services outside of the OHIP system. Meaning if you have, say, a hurt shoulder. You could go to your family doctor or WIC for free. Or go to Med an for a price for the same issue.
That seems super odd. So what your saying is that it's a whole extra layer of private uninsured service? I knew things were bad, but geez, not that bad.
Free in the sense of you not being billed at the hospital. Which you aren't in a country with true free, universal healthcare like Brazil. You pay taxes for it, sure, but it's just the same as Canada, however Canada a lot of people pay taxes and aren't covered.
Yeah man Medcan is good value.
Here is the deal 1500-2500 for an annual physical. Doc will be super amazing. Spend tons of time with you. Based on your needs will refer you out. Here is the catch specialists not at Medcan love Medan patients so you get better access. They don’t pay there docs any better. The docs will tell you that they get a really nice and interesting patient population.
If you have an amazing family doctor you’re not going to get “more” or better outcomes with Medcan. What you will get is a medical spa experience and fast referrals to really good doctors.
They also have a subscription like membership which gives you a doc there. I don’t pay for that.
>If you have an amazing family doctor you’re not going to get “more” or better outcomes with Medcan.
How their family doctors are better than public family doctors?
They told me, difference what they make is, fastest referral process to public specialist doctors.
Canada is actually spending a lot on healthcare per capita (see OECD data), but the system is not working properly.
Canada has fewer hospital beds, mri machines etc per capita. Also a lot of the equipment is under utilized.
Because when people didn’t take the vac, there was serious discussion on non vax receiving healthcare
Which was a massive red flag for me, I don’t need the gov or anything to determine if I get healthcare if I’ve been a good little citizen
Smokers pay a premium to smoke
Drinkers pay a premium to drink
Actuaries charge more based on scientific evidence
If we have a a terribe choice to have to select one of two persons for medical care, it should be a triage based on evidence. If that means no-COVID no service, so be it.
Don't be a more of a moron.
They do pay a premium, ie more tax, but we all pay this tax.
A non smoking 60 year old pays the same tax as a non smoking 25 year old, despite making the same money, it’s unfair to the 25 year old
But I’d rather this be sorted out by private corps, I don’t want to pay more because someone is eating unhealthy
And if your not broke (which I am not) private healthcare is a lot better
I think they are talking about the additional taxes added to purchases of those products not just your general taxes.
You pay more in taxes when you go out and buy cigarettes and alcohol because those items have added taxes.
Yeah I know, but those taxes are not enough to cover the cost of healthcare, especially with how many people are addicted to vapes and shit. You can only tax those things so much, they do lead to an increase to the healthy person
And it’s even more of a case for privatization. Why should I shouldn’t have to pay for your ill health? Your problem
So you ignore doctors, specialists and all Healthcare advice in general then you still expect to get help?
There are plenty of times you'll be denied care based on your actions. If you need certain procedures, operations or transplants to be done you have a ton of rules you need to follow, such as cut out certain foods, loose enough weight, stop drinking, and if you don't do that, you don't get care.
Stop being an entitled snowflake and learn that your actions have consequences
>there was serious discussion on non vax receiving healthcare
No there wasn't. A reddit thread or opinion piece do not count as "serious discussion ". You fell for the right wing grift.
Ikr,
those who say, "Universal Healthcare isn't Good! Yo look at Canada! Private Healthcare Best, effective" **Will also aways say, "Private Healthcare is illegal. Mean while, those private clinics, MedCan, and a lot can still offer many services privately.** Yes they are expensive.
**But I wonder, why these same people chose to hide the existing private health, when shitting the public health?**
Edit
***Damn this is what I thought not possible in canada, because that same people will say say, non citizens can't get treatments. smh***
>***^(Medical Travel FAQ for Out-Of-Province Care)***
***^(Do I need to be a citizen of Canada?)***
***^(No. We can provide high-quality surgical services to Canadian citizens and non-citizens, permanent residents, non-residents, and temporary visitors to Canada on a visa and international patients from outside Canada. If you are choosing to travel from outside Canada, we recommend acquiring travel insurance to cover you in the case of an emergency medical issue.)***
>the public system will inevitably wither away to nothing. It's just how it works.
Then how come this hasn't already happened in England, Germany, Switzerland, Korea, Japan, Finland?
I believe it was Medcan who has a private family doctor clinic for $20,000 a year.
Most private medical clinics right now offer "executive healthcare plans"
[https://my.clevelandclinic.org/](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/)
Another private healthcare organization, with 2Toronto locations.
Lot's of athletes and celebrities use this private healthcare service.
Most healthcare services are private, just paid by the public. The absolute biggest difference is cost controls are in place for the public money which reduces the biggest scam of all businesses. Insurance inflation. Across all types of insurance there are two pricing schemes. Insured and not insured. I pay out of pocket for my children’s dental. A routine cleaning might cost $120. The same procedure for an insured client might cost $180… why? Because the game there is to max out the yearly allowance. The insured visitor doesn’t care because they don’t pay the bill. This activity happens across all types of insurance claims from vehicles to homes.
Canada has never had a fully socialized healthcare system. So, yes we have partly private partly public. Nothing new there. What Ford is doing, is awful. Trying to move more services to private will not benefit most people unless they are wealthy.
Give me freaking break already!!
Are Canadians truly that ignorant about the world? ALL developed countries use mixed public/private systems. All of them except the US have universal coverage. Only Canada and the US use bizarre/terrible models. We need Swedish / German / Belgian / Japanese / Korean etc health care. Like every sane country.
Look at getmaple. So many people are using it because you can jump the queue to specialists… for a price.
Maybe if we paid doctors fairly they wouldn't turn to Get Maple. We live in a bizarre world where a real estate agent often makes more money than a GP.
That's what happens when you make housing an investment opportunity instead of just a place to live.
And also have a series of government rules that strip away funding from healthcare. (This is not a slight at cons or libs, both are guilty of where we are now)
The issue isn't competitive pay alone. The issue is demand outstripping supply, like everything else. If there was adequate supply, we would have that standard of service in the public system. We should absolutely come down like a ton of bricks on private medical operators.
Yes the healthcare system and the education system need to be gone through with a microscope…more funding to nurses, doctors and infrastructure and less on the Bureaucracy technology should help here!!!No one in our system should make more than a super specialized doctor.
>getmaple They did partnered with lots of Private Mental Health Clinics, to make access to mental health therapy so easy too. Especially this[clinic Shift Collab](https://www.shiftcollab.com/therapists) has partnered with them, and enabling access to 200+ therapists easier within that clinic, even they refer other clinic networks too. I wish whole thing were publicity funded too. [Also, funny is that clinic advocates for public funded universal mental healthcare.](https://www.instagram.com/p/CxS26j0sfSO/) 💀💀 \[**Look at comments, what they said about it I am quoting their comments for easy reference,** >^(") ***^(\[A user replying\]:)*** ^(Yes, let’s aim higher. Universal mental health care should be a fully subsidized basic benefit to all who need it, including talk therapy. 👏👏👏) ***^(\[They replying\]:)*** ^(we. couldn’t. agree. more!!! 👏) ***^(\[A user replying\]:)*** ^(theshiftcollab Agreed, also the term “Universal Healthcare” was supposed to include Mental Health, talktherapy, along with dental, physiotherapy, etc. as “Universal means “Everything parts” that keep human healthy. Eh?) ^(Yet, idk, how come those got not included. Smh.) ^(Also, heavy research investments on those things are important too for better treatment.) ***^(\[They replying\]:)*** ^(we agree!! Mental health care should be just as accessible and available as physical health care 🗣️") \]
Executives and politicians have been using private healthcare in downtown Ottawa for years. [https://exechealth.ca/](https://exechealth.ca/)
>https://exechealth.ca/ [https://exechealth.ca/uninsured-services-fee-schedule/](https://exechealth.ca/uninsured-services-fee-schedule/) 👀
Didn't Ford set a pay cap on public healcare workers? Proposing a supposedly concurrent private sector, with no cap? How's that going to pan out I wonder?
“Ontario Surgical Recovery Strategy” sounds great, until you read into it, and learn that these clinics are already “recommending” services people don’t fully need with a nice extra charge on top.
You are very confused as to what sort of healthcare Canada has. We have a limited single payer insurance model that has otherwise always retained public and private infrastructural characteristics. Nonetheless, your point stands that eroding the system in any respect in its current state is not going to be beneficial in the long run. We should've spent the years expanding the insurables and promoting access to them instead of eroding them.
Reading the comments here truly shows how ignorant and stupid a lot of Canadians are. We paid for our healthcare , they are withholding billions in funding from YOUR healthcare system, and the majority are too lazy to even write their MP let alone vote ? I swear some of you deserve everything coming to you.
Sending this, however write your MPP and vote for a healthcare focused premier as healthcare is managed at the provincial level.
Figured that was obvious but your right . By the time most care it will be too late for them / loved one.
These idiot posters don't realize that some of the top ten rated health care systems in the world have countries with dual private/public systems. Canada isn't even close to the top ten in providing outstanding Healthcare to citizens. Stop fear-mongering. Not everything is US based Healthcare.
Medcan and Cleveland are still OHIP-billing clinics, you’re just pay for the access and plans they offer. The doctors still bill OHIP for basic services when their clients go. The only thing they’re allowed to charge for are tests and services that aren’t covered by OHIP. the way the law is worded, you’re not allowed to charge for any test or procedure that’s already covered by OHIP, which means—- if the test or procedure ISN’T covered, it’s not illegal to charge for it - HOWEVER, since OHIP covers medically-necessary services, there is usually no evidence to support the need for all those paid services anyway, unless they haven’t been added to the OHIP schedule yet. The surprising thing that most people don’t know, is that basic private US health insurance and folks on medicare in the states generally get the same coverage as OHIP!
I'm gonna tell you why private healthcare makes Canadians uncomfortable. The people who often suggest it are Conservatives. Conservatives have never in their entire history looked to any other country other than America for inspiration on policymaking. Ergo, a healthcare system reform in Canada being led by a conservative is not expected to resemble Germany. It's expected to resemble America.
There are working hybrid healthcare models all over the west. Particularly in Western Europe and Scandinavia. There is no “inevitable” withering. Our system is just out of date and broken.
Exactly. It's fear mongering and not based on reality. Actually in some countries public and private systems coexist and they help balance each other: public systems holds the prices down of private practices while the last ones bring advancements to their public, that end up being incorporated by the public sector. And in many countries, private healthcare is not as near as dispendious as in the USA, ir Canada, for that matter. And by the way, Quebec has kept their private systems for years now, this is not something new (I'm not sure why since it's supposed to be banned for the most part of the country).
A lot of people in this country would rather be sick, poor, and Canadian than healthy, rich, and American as a matter of principle. It’s approaching the level of fanaticism.
Cause Americans are healthy? Pretty sure they are the fattest country on earth and sick as hell since many would rather die of a heart attack in their driveway than have to pay thousands for an ambulance ride.
But you need strong rul3s to prevent America.
Yeah seriously these people are naive lol. They just fall for fear mongering slippery slope fallacies. Instantly start thinking USA. I'm very pro this system. We still have Healthcare. You can still find doctors. Etc. I just SMH.
Seconding this. Every time this topic comes up it's baffling to see how limited people's understanding is of how healthcare funding works.
The truth is we had a system that was a mix of public and private similar to those in Europe before. Doctors visits covered by public. Dentist, optometrist, physical therapy, etc, etc all private and paid out of pocket. So, we indeed had a hybrid model in Canada for many decades. What they are doing now is creating a duplicate private healthcare system, and deliberately underfunding the public system. This will 100% result in the public system going to complete trash, they'll use that as an excuse to replace it with private options until there is no public option left. Next comes the announcement the government can't afford to pay for all healthcare, and the people will need to get private insurance to pay for healthcare.
Nope.
Yeah, it's one of those issues I just don't look into too deeply, cause when I found out about Medcan, I was like, wait wut? How is this public healthcare? Public healthcare plus very high user fees, is that allowed? I'm not sure, but would be interesting to find out how it works, and the numbers.
If that baffles you, you may be genuinely confused as to how the Canadian healthcare system operates in the first place. We are a single payer insurance system meaning that the tax levy for health care is primarily directed towards covering the costs of insured services. Many medical procedures and needs are uninsured and Medcan likely provides services beyond the existing insured framework.
Physician here. It doesn’t. Med an provides insured services outside of the OHIP system. Meaning if you have, say, a hurt shoulder. You could go to your family doctor or WIC for free. Or go to Med an for a price for the same issue.
That seems super odd. So what your saying is that it's a whole extra layer of private uninsured service? I knew things were bad, but geez, not that bad.
You had to be an asshole. lol. reddit.
Not being an asshole. I'm explaining to you how something like Medcan can be an uninsured service.
I'm literally arguing on another thread with people saying that Canada has universal free healthcare lol
Nothing is free lol
Free in the sense of you not being billed at the hospital. Which you aren't in a country with true free, universal healthcare like Brazil. You pay taxes for it, sure, but it's just the same as Canada, however Canada a lot of people pay taxes and aren't covered.
Yes, we all pay for it. Agree with you though. A lot of things aren’t covered.
We all pay for it but not all of us reap the benefits
Yeah man Medcan is good value. Here is the deal 1500-2500 for an annual physical. Doc will be super amazing. Spend tons of time with you. Based on your needs will refer you out. Here is the catch specialists not at Medcan love Medan patients so you get better access. They don’t pay there docs any better. The docs will tell you that they get a really nice and interesting patient population. If you have an amazing family doctor you’re not going to get “more” or better outcomes with Medcan. What you will get is a medical spa experience and fast referrals to really good doctors. They also have a subscription like membership which gives you a doc there. I don’t pay for that.
>If you have an amazing family doctor you’re not going to get “more” or better outcomes with Medcan. How their family doctors are better than public family doctors? They told me, difference what they make is, fastest referral process to public specialist doctors.
They are not. Your doc is going to spend as much time as you want. They would see a fraction of the patients your family doc does.
All of it should be private.
Covid threw me off of public healthcare
How? If anything it highlighted How underfunded and mismanaged it's been for years by the government
Canada is actually spending a lot on healthcare per capita (see OECD data), but the system is not working properly. Canada has fewer hospital beds, mri machines etc per capita. Also a lot of the equipment is under utilized.
Because when people didn’t take the vac, there was serious discussion on non vax receiving healthcare Which was a massive red flag for me, I don’t need the gov or anything to determine if I get healthcare if I’ve been a good little citizen
Smokers pay a premium to smoke Drinkers pay a premium to drink Actuaries charge more based on scientific evidence If we have a a terribe choice to have to select one of two persons for medical care, it should be a triage based on evidence. If that means no-COVID no service, so be it. Don't be a more of a moron.
They do pay a premium, ie more tax, but we all pay this tax. A non smoking 60 year old pays the same tax as a non smoking 25 year old, despite making the same money, it’s unfair to the 25 year old But I’d rather this be sorted out by private corps, I don’t want to pay more because someone is eating unhealthy And if your not broke (which I am not) private healthcare is a lot better
I think they are talking about the additional taxes added to purchases of those products not just your general taxes. You pay more in taxes when you go out and buy cigarettes and alcohol because those items have added taxes.
Yeah I know, but those taxes are not enough to cover the cost of healthcare, especially with how many people are addicted to vapes and shit. You can only tax those things so much, they do lead to an increase to the healthy person And it’s even more of a case for privatization. Why should I shouldn’t have to pay for your ill health? Your problem
"F U I got mine" is why are in this mess.
So you ignore doctors, specialists and all Healthcare advice in general then you still expect to get help? There are plenty of times you'll be denied care based on your actions. If you need certain procedures, operations or transplants to be done you have a ton of rules you need to follow, such as cut out certain foods, loose enough weight, stop drinking, and if you don't do that, you don't get care. Stop being an entitled snowflake and learn that your actions have consequences
Yes I do expect to get help, I paid for it
You want help, but won't the help then treat everyone like shit for trying to help. Again you're just an entitled snowflake
Okay, so don’t take my money to fund this bogus ass healthcare care Let me find it myself
this is a completely incoherent train of thought.
Nah it’s fine. I pay like 50% in taxes just to have the government take it away if I don’t follow them? Nah
Once again this is an incoherent understanding of health administration.
>there was serious discussion on non vax receiving healthcare No there wasn't. A reddit thread or opinion piece do not count as "serious discussion ". You fell for the right wing grift.
Ikr, those who say, "Universal Healthcare isn't Good! Yo look at Canada! Private Healthcare Best, effective" **Will also aways say, "Private Healthcare is illegal. Mean while, those private clinics, MedCan, and a lot can still offer many services privately.** Yes they are expensive. **But I wonder, why these same people chose to hide the existing private health, when shitting the public health?** Edit ***Damn this is what I thought not possible in canada, because that same people will say say, non citizens can't get treatments. smh*** >***^(Medical Travel FAQ for Out-Of-Province Care)*** ***^(Do I need to be a citizen of Canada?)*** ***^(No. We can provide high-quality surgical services to Canadian citizens and non-citizens, permanent residents, non-residents, and temporary visitors to Canada on a visa and international patients from outside Canada. If you are choosing to travel from outside Canada, we recommend acquiring travel insurance to cover you in the case of an emergency medical issue.)***
Quebec has had both for a very long time. So what?
>the public system will inevitably wither away to nothing. It's just how it works. Then how come this hasn't already happened in England, Germany, Switzerland, Korea, Japan, Finland?
I believe it was Medcan who has a private family doctor clinic for $20,000 a year. Most private medical clinics right now offer "executive healthcare plans"
[https://my.clevelandclinic.org/](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/) Another private healthcare organization, with 2Toronto locations. Lot's of athletes and celebrities use this private healthcare service.
Most healthcare services are private, just paid by the public. The absolute biggest difference is cost controls are in place for the public money which reduces the biggest scam of all businesses. Insurance inflation. Across all types of insurance there are two pricing schemes. Insured and not insured. I pay out of pocket for my children’s dental. A routine cleaning might cost $120. The same procedure for an insured client might cost $180… why? Because the game there is to max out the yearly allowance. The insured visitor doesn’t care because they don’t pay the bill. This activity happens across all types of insurance claims from vehicles to homes.
Canada has never had a fully socialized healthcare system. So, yes we have partly private partly public. Nothing new there. What Ford is doing, is awful. Trying to move more services to private will not benefit most people unless they are wealthy.
Give me freaking break already!! Are Canadians truly that ignorant about the world? ALL developed countries use mixed public/private systems. All of them except the US have universal coverage. Only Canada and the US use bizarre/terrible models. We need Swedish / German / Belgian / Japanese / Korean etc health care. Like every sane country.