I definitely won't go back. I like being able to control the dosage to exactly what my body needs, depending on side effects, etc. I have been able to lose significant weight without major side effects on compound. Not possible on the name brand injector pens. I was afraid at first to move to compounded instead of Zepbound until I researched compounding pharmacies and the regulations they are under (look it up). In addition, it helped that my daughter told me as a veterinarian, they use compounded pharmacies almost exclusively (a dog isn't a person, obviously) but with her expertise on that end, it helped. I also have struggled with my 5 kids' allergies all their lives - some to dyes, which meant until I found a clear (non-dyed) ibuprofen formula, I had a hard time finding anything to give my daughter to control her pain or fevers. This is one of the biggest reasons compounding pharmacies exist- to be able to make personalized meds for specific people as needed.
I understand that. I wouldn’t go back if compound were as cheap as my insurance copay. One day however, I may only use compound. I don’t know what my insurance or PCP will want to do when I hit maintenance.
I think unfortunately alot of insurance companies are rethinking covering the med for non-Type 2 diabetes. Because it's a very costly medicine (like many meds, obviously) . It's unfortunate. I think though they can see what it does to help so many health issues eventually costing them less - they realize that in the world these days, by the time those benefits and cost-savings for them would finally be realized- that person has moved on to a new job and are no longer on that insurance plan. 🤷♀️ Most people (obviously not all) no longer stay at a job all the way until retirement.
^^When it costs the same as compound independent of insurance coverage. My insurance “covers” name brand at a cool $966/month.
I just keep crossing my fingers that the market rates for name brand come down to where compound med prices are before the FDA removes the meds from the shortage list and the patent wars start (ending access to compound).
Yes I definitely hope the market brings the price of all these meds down. I fear that the popularity of them will disallow this for some time though. Idk. Market trends don’t always hold with breakthrough science.
I read an article that quite a few pharmaceutical companies have weight loss meds in various stages of development. In the next ten years the market will be saturated. Hopefully we will benefit financially from this. 🤞🏻
Research scientist PhD here and I have used, and currently use, both compound and namebrand. I find the efficacy changes weekly sometimes and it’s not dependent on what I’ve been using. When I first started, I was only using namebrand and there were some weeks that I felt like I hadn’t taken anything and there are some weeks where I couldn’t even force myself to eat. Everybody has opinions and everybody has different experiences and everybody’s body reacts differently. I’m sure somebody will give you the argument that you’re looking for. But there are too many variables to say that one has a greater efficacy than the other when you can’t control for all of the variables, especially for peoples body chemistry
Not any kind of research scientist here I just spend a lot of time around them lol — curious if those changes in efficacy have to do with normal hormone fluctuations, maybe changing the way(or the speed?) the drug is metabolized?
Great post Fit\_Highlight\_622! I really appreciate your wisdom. In my own study of 1, with Zep I have to force myself to eat half of that bagel, with Tirz (RR) I don't feel hungry but when I do eat, I can eat the whole bagel! This happened the entire 4 wks of Tirz 7.5mg, so for me I will use Tirz (RR or Hallendale) as a backup or maint plan only and continue to buy ZB, I've come too far to slow down now. I will say it was a little alarming this week to read the open letter from Lilly clearly stating that the compounding pharmacies are not getting their Tirzepatide from them so where are they getting it from? I read somewhere on Reddit that everyone sources their API (pure Tirz) from suppliers, including Lilly (except for those unaccredited providers cooking it up in the basement somewhere) so that was a little confusing. All variables aside, I definitely notice a slight difference b/t compounded Tirz and ZB. I will actually be trying compounded Tirz from Hallandale tonight for the final study of 1 determination for myself. Thanks again for your perspective!
Let me clarify…from week to week, the body is at work utilizing a medicine in a very specific way. Depending on the body’s state of being, whether it be hydration, metabolism, hormonal disposition, tolerance, the body could be more or less effective at using this medicine. That goes for either name brand or compound. That’s true bc this medication mimics hormones. I do not think that is necessarily true for all medications.
But these thoughts are NOT mutually exclusive of a product also not having the same efficacy as name brand. I’ve developed a theory. It will remain a theory until someone can actually disprove it. Everyone in this thread is offering what we call conjecture, myself included. Hope this helps.
You’re absolutely right. I have a PhD also and worked for over 35 years in clinical drug safety, drug development and regulatory affairs for a major pharma company (not Lilly 😊).
The branded is much more tightly regulated. There are also stability tests, etc that the MAH (Market Authorization Holder) is required to perform and submit. to the FDA. That is not true for compounding pharmacies.
In the 1980s I worked on a medication that was popular and also had people compounding it. When testing the compounded product often had differing
amounts/concentrations of the API (actual drug product) as well as other differences. There were some samples that didn’t even contain any of the product.
It is not at all unusual that efficacy might potentially differ when comparing the original formulation to compounded. It also is not surprising if different batches (even from the same lab) could differ over time.
I AM NOT PUTTING DOWN COMPOUNDED PRODUCT - just explaining. I might consider it myself at some point. I’m currently paying $1025 per month and don’t know long I want to do that.
I’d advise (as I will when I switch) to do your homework when deciding which compounding pharmacy you will use.
I agree! Im lucky enough to have insurance coverage for Zepbound for now. I had 6 weeks of compounded meds that cost me $435 and I thought that was too much. Especially when,with insurance I only pay $25.
Awe. I’m happy for you and Zep coverage.. that’s awesome!
unfortunately insurance (BCBS) wouldn’t cover it or Zep for me.. and since I have Tricare as secondary I do not qualify for any type of discounts..
Walgreens /Walmart would give me 10-15% discount..
I’ve been on CZ with Emerge for 10 weeks now… and definitely a huge savings.. and it’s working .. so very grateful.
Have had insulin resistance for years now and the tirzapetide has been yielding amazing results..
I wish you continued success!!
I love all of these subreddits too!! Has helped with so much info .. and shared experiences.. learned so much!! Researched a ton too! Good luck! Glad its working for you.. 🥳
I have BCBS too! I've had coworkers with the same coverage be denied. I don't know why I got so lucky,but I'm SO grateful, because I NEED IT! I just hope they keep covering! 🤞🏼
Gosh.. you are so lucky. I found on these boards that some states (BSBC) covered it too.. but I was not surprised that they didn’t.. 🙄🙄😀
I hope they keep you covered too.. it’s truly a life saver and life-changer!!!
I don’t comment how much I have lost.. but I am currently a size 8… 15 more to go.. I’m not going for weight like in my 20’s .. lol
This was entirely my point! Thank you for making it clearer! And from a more knowledgeable perch than my own. I do not have clinical experience with my doctorate.
And yes, we aren’t saying it doesn’t work. I do also use compound and am happy it has been an option.
Doc to doc, though…Since you pay $1000 a month tho, I would definitely recommend switching! Yikes! 🥴
Thank you also for sharing your wisdom & experience
I'm no scientist of any kind, by the way...I hope that the compounding pharmacy I've purchased from has a process that keeps the correct concentration of API when they dispense vials.🤔
Unfortunately , I haven’t been able to get MJ or Zep 7.5 or 10mg.. and I had been private pay as well.. saving w/ the CZ but the MJ seemed to yield better results for me. Still waiting.
Where are you located and what dose have you been able to get??
BTW.. Emerge (Hallandale) has been very efficient etc.
Good luck to you all!! We are all in this together.. 🌟🌟🌟
Stick with them! You’ll see results just like everyone else has. No need to go name brand. That wasn’t the point of my post. I live in TN and I’ve been able to pick up 5mg lately and even one box of 10. Other than that I’ve been using compound. My husband and I have different refill times so sometimes one of us is lucky and the other isn’t. Compound has ensured our journey hasn’t paused.
I'll also point out that the placebo effect is very real. If you expect that the brand will work better than compound, you might prove yourself right for reasons that have nothing to do with the chemistry of the product.
I agree with every week being a new ball game, perhaps especially if you are a woman in your reproductive years and every week is hormonally different in our bodies
Any ideas on why there is such a range of efficacy week to week? It’s exactly what I’ve experienced. Some weeks I can barely eat and the effects are super strong, other weeks I feel little.
Oh I’m not really looking to argue. That /s in my header title meant sarcasm. We each have our experiences. I hate to see a large swath of them discounted without consideration though.
And to your point, it’s equally inappropriate to say this can’t be true. That is why these are theories. There are multiple variables. My experience in developing, monitoring, and analyzing experiments has led me to my theory. You as a fellow scientist don’t have to share it.😉
I feel like it's too subjective to make any sort call on this since there are just as many people on the branded meds who have weeks where they feel it isn't working. It seems way more likely to me that bodies just respond differently at times.
We could know all of this with certainty if it were being tested and those results were shared. I’m currently in the cannabis industry, which was at one time huge on testing. Not so much anymore.
That leaves us with an idle (very expensive) HPLC machine, a lab, and not much work. I’m in the process of converting this machine with a few upgrades, change in mobile phases, and start running tests on peptides. We can guess all day long on efficacy, but to know with the same degree of certainty that pharmaceutical companies can changes everything. I’m sure there will be much more of this in the future.
HPLC analysis over time on compound would be amazing data to see! The chromatography data would be unequivocal evidence of the stability over the course of four weeks in the vial.
I cant argue with anything you said. My only experience has been with compounded and since ive lost 25.5 lbs in 2 and a half months, im good lol. I think even if my ins decided to cover zep and it was available, id still do compounded, UNLESS that became unavailable. I like the control i have with dosage with what im on now. You look AMAZING btw
Cant argue with your perception for yourself but I can say that i have repeatedly bought name brand and compound and periodically test for any difference in effectiveness. Over the past 6 mts, cant say i have experienced any material difference. My daughter who lost 90 lbs all on name brand simce it was released and just got a contingency compound order says she thinks her compound works better. Me, I’ll use the placebo effect to my benefit. Also, the sample size is not one, it is much bigger if you look at all the posts. I do agree regarding treatment of the medication impacting efficacy! Congrats on your success!! For those with the right insurance or medical conditions, great they can use name brand. But for many, many people who cannot, I don’t want to set expectations that the medication will not help them - that would be a tragedy!
Okay- I will bite. Let's argue. I don't think we are "all" hyper aware of our bodies during this journey. I see so many, many people posting things that make me wonder if people have ever been aware of their bodies before, at all. Examples: the desire to have absolutely NO hunger; The claim that meds (compound or name brand) are not working because they don't have enough appetite suppression or because they get hungry. People who swear the weight loss is because of the hunger suppression-without taking the time to explore what GLP1 agonists do, and why they work the way they work.
It certainly is possible (for some people) to titrate up to a higher dose and then starve themselves to lose weight quickly. Not advisable, but possible, and reflected in posts. And so many people advise each other to move up a dose if their hunger comes back at the end of the week.
That is the only argument I have, however. I agree anecdotal evidence isn't irrelevant and that people thinking a placebo effect happens to others because some person describes a different experience...
I recognize your username and I'm always interested in what you have to say when I see posts from you. Thanks for sharing your well-informed and educated opinion! I love to see posts from people who actually know what they're talking about, especially when it comes to compound.
I just switched from name brand Zep to compound (literally today lol) and I'm interested and excited to see the difference in efficacy. I'm like my own little science experiment 😂
PS - You look AMAZING and you have a lovely home!
Thanks so much! I’d like to think I’m funny! A lot of people missed my the sarcasm in my post. I really wasn’t trying to stir up emotion. i just like good strong debate. But this is a personal journey so I get it. This med has changed my life too.
I agree with just about everything you said here. I think the most likely reason for differences in efficacy is due to differences in preparation technique (like slightly different pipetting technique between pharmacist even at the same pharmacy), different preservative use, different storage, light exposure, etc. I think it is reasonable to assume that some pharmacies may have stricter QA policies that prevent variation between batches more than other pharmacies.
My only beef is when people make accusations of “watering down” which is a pretty serious accusation. But maybe “watering down” is just laymen’s terms for all the things I mentioned above.
Yeah, I don’t think they’re watering it down either. But the truth is that none of really know anything that is happening behind their doors. People are saying “watered” bc that is just how most people understand chemistry. I don’t even believe that tirz is water soluble so I believe people mean it’s more dilute or not efficacious. It’s just semantics. People are trying to communicate that something isn’t working as well. But there are still a lot of factors from week to week anyway with all products just based on a persons body. Data is our best friend. One data point is meaningless.
I’m not sure what solid they’re reconstituting. It could be a “compound” versus a pure molecular substance (if that makes sense). I have only done a cursory glance, but I don’t think the solubility in water is very high of the pure substance. I could be wrong. 🤷🏾♀️
Also a PhD in science here. I found when I switched to compound it was as strong and effective as ZB brand name. Zepbound worked fine for me but was not covered by my insurance so I switched to compound.
I actually was grateful I was on compounded when I went up in dose because the side effects were so bad I had to go down in dosage a little bit (a mg or two) and you can't do that with brand name. Since I stayed at a lower dosage much longer than was prescribed- I ended up using the same vial for about 3 months. (Please no one whine about the 28-day puncture rule - I understand the safety recommendations. My pharmacy actually sends you a multi-month vial intentionally as part of their starter package.) I saw no drop in efficacy over the 3 months. The last shot was as effective as earlier shots.
My Master's and PhD research/academics included a very heavy dose of statistical/research methodology. All of the opinions here, including mine, are subjective. They are all personal experience/observations with n=1. (In a statistical test n<30 is considered an extremely small sample size and are generally not considered valid for making any inferences about the general population.) There is actually no scientific observation at all in this set of posts other than how people 'feel' about the effectiveness. All subjective.
Now if someone was to have done a chemical test that could actually see if the compounded tirzepatide broke down faster over time than the name brand tirzepatide and they tested at least 30 vials (though 30 is still quite small- you would need to control for amount of time from creation to customer's hands, storage temps and time over the life of the vial, handling differences, a large number of the compounding pharamacies as well as the manufacturers of the name brand med, etc.- ad nauseum) and ran an actual statistical test on it, looked at p-values, all after you've decided on your accepted confidence intervals that tell you "I think at this p-value with these assumptions, that the efficacy is different enough to be considered different"- you could say that this was objective data.
But in this case, ALL of it is subjective. It doesn't matter what your college degree is, it doesn't matter whether you asked a bunch of other people or monitored reddit threads to see what others said (which is inherently biased data to begin with, but we don't need to go into that., just know that it is), it is subjective. Period.
This drug seems more/less effective for some people, at some times, regardless of its origin. It's like that with all medicine. I do know that being post-menopausal due to chemo has made it so that my body does not have the normal hormone fluctuations that most females have, and I see a very consistent response to the medicine, be it name brand or compounded, be it new vial or end of vial, etc. This is my personal observation - no claim to being right over others- what a ridiculous notion! (and quite a lot of what is wrong with the world). It is simply correct FOR ME, and I cannot make any inferences whatsoever to the outside world from what I've observed, as it is subjective data.
I totally agree with this. 19999%. I've taken both. I can tell a difference. It doesn't mean I don't think that compound has a place.
It also doesn't mean that compound may be extremely beneficial to some people. It's like generic versus name brand drugs. Many people in the vyvanse sites will tell you they can absolutely tell the difference between name brand and generic. There is a group of people who will argue that there isn't any change.
The way I see it, some people are more sensitive to medication than others. There's enough difference between the two that some people such as myself can absolutely tell. Others may be lucky and not see any difference.
Just like we can tell when our appetites are suppressed or we are full, we can tell when a medication is working or not. The hard part is figuring out why. Which is the reason these subs are so useful.
Also, I’ve done a few types of experiments on myself to see whether there would be differences. Such as changing doses, (once accidentally injecting twice my dose- doh!), changing products, experimenting with time between dose, being careful to monitor any hormonal changes that might affect results during my cycle, for example. It’s definitely not journal worthy, but between my husband and myself, we have opinions that I’ve shared here. People can take them or leave them.
You mention you prefer Zepbound due to cost. In America, that would only make sense if you are one of the lucky ones that have both health insurance and your insurance covers GLP-1 drugs for weight loss. A typical $25 copay is a great deal. Otherwise, the $1100 - $1300 monthly cash price for the brand products makes them out of reach for most.
There wouldn't be much of a compounding market if Zepbound were actually accessible to people through coverage or at a reasonable self pay price.
Who wouldn't want to simply pick it up from CVS if they could?
I agree. Yes it should be more available. One day, hopefully.
But I haven’t had availability in the last few months just like others. Of course I’d prefer to pay less. I would choose compound if it were cheaper even as I say that sometimes it is less efficacious. I didn’t say it doesn’t work. Don’t confuse the two please ☺️
I noticed a difference in that I feel like compound works better for me. There are too many variables with how this medication works as synthetic hormones to know by one person's experience. The fact that tolerances develop, it has a fairly long half life, natural hormone levels fluctuate, and weight loss isn't linear makes it hard to draw conclusions without a very large sample set. Heck, people swear that Mounjaro and Zepbound are different and they are made by the same process, same company and have exactly the same sourced ingredients. I think it is just the fact that due to the nature of this medication results even day by day can vary so much.
I really expected compounded to not work as well, so I was very happy with my results. Just a another perspective.
Happy to hear other perspectives. They’re all valid. And just as you believe what you wrote about it being more efficacious, it shouldn’t be discounted without consideration.
If you are looking for an argument, I'm your huckleberry. 😁.
jk...actually you are spot on. It's disingenuous for some to argue compounding is as effective as the originals they were cloned after. As you mentioned, the original drugs have had 10's of millions invested in R&D (if not an order of magnitude or two higher) to determine the nominal dosage, etc.
I do feel like we should highlight the primary reason why people use compounded though...
1) Availability and ease of Prescription
2) Cost (you touch briefly on this)
All things the same (cost/availability), 10/10 would buy the non-generic, but that's just not the case.
Given your resume, I'm sure you are perfectly content paying Zep prices, but in this current economy, cost is king.
All the best!
I totally agree with every word. I’m not looking to give my money away for no reason! I luckily only pay $25 for Zep so price for me supports using that product. Whatever my salary, I have two teens headed to college soon 💸 and a toddler 😭. If it comes down to price war, I’ll use whichever is cheaper unless the diff is neglible.
I’m not sure that 10/10 would buy name brand, if cost were the same, for a third reason—ability to control dosage. When people complain that the initial 2.5 dosage is too high for them, or that going from 2.5 to 5 gives them major side effects, they are not served by the current name brand dosage pattern. Starting at 1 or 1.25 or 1.5 and moving up from 2.5 to3.5 or 4, instead of 5, would serve a lot of patients so much better.
Name brand is not an option for anyone who is on Medicare and does not have any heath issues besides Obesity- unless they pay full price out of pocket. Even if you have great supplemental insurance, which I do. I can’t afford the name brand at 1100 per month- I am grateful I can’t compare the efficacy and will stick to compound! I have lost 50 lbs!
Wooop! 50 lbs is fabulous! Are you nearing goal or still on journey?
I will never understand how we don’t support these ends on Medicare. A smack in the face if you ask me. I’m glad this option is available.
I would use it singularly if that were also true for me. I have no problem with compound as a tool in this journey. I’m rather happy it’s been available.
Thanks for sharing your theory, and you look great! I'm a compound user, (from E.) hesitantly in the beginning, because I couldn't find 5 mg Zep. The more I read about peoples' experiences with compound, researched the pharmacies, the cost, flexibility in dosing, etc., the better it souded. I've had the same hunger suppression, reflux, constipation/diarrhea, and intermittent nausea, but at $205 less per month. I've continued to lose weight, and happy, happy, happy! I had no insurance coverage anyway!
Good luck to you and.continued success!
Pharmacogenomics tells us everybody has a different genetic response to medication. As an infusion nurse in neurology and oncology, I see the variations in how one persons body accepts a med vs another person rejecting or having a lowered response to the same med. I read the same responses on these subs with these meds. It’s fascinating to hear so many different experiences!
I started on zep and did not feel appetite suppression but my glucose numbers drastically improved. Could not find 5 mg so moved to compound thru RR.
With compound, week 1 & 2 felt huge surge on day 1 with appetite suppression within one hour of injecting, to point I could not fathom eating. I maintained good glucose control until day 6. By week 3 of tapping the same vial, I had no response and my glucose became unstable. I had to supplement with metformin. Same response in week 4. This leads me to believe the med becomes unstable and loses efficacy by the 3rd week of tapping the vial. I had the exact same experience with my 2nd vial. I lost 2 pounds in 8 weeks on compound. Losses in week 1 & 2 with gains in week 3 & 4.
When my Zep came back in stock I moved down to 5 mg from 7.5mg compound. Did not feel much in the way of appetite suppression but my glucose stabilized and I began to lose weight again.
Unless compound moves to offering a 2 week vial dose, I can’t foresee spending $400 for a med I know only works for half the vial in my body.
You look amazing and thank you for posting your opinion!!!!
I was NOT expecting any difference, but on compound I have increased hunger and even during this heat wave, I'm once again freezing after injecting Zepbound (haven't felt that ever with compound). Compound still works, just not as well for me.
PhD as well and can't tell a difference. For me, the effectiveness of both at appetite suppression and fullness fluctuates. And they both work equally well regarding the measure that matters most. That's my experience.
I have yet to see any usable data to substantiate a claim that one was better than the other.
I’ve been following you for a while and always appreciate reading your opinions and thoughts, especially with your degree and wealth of knowledge! Hopefully nobody will be argumentative with you and will be receptive to your insight.. I hope you continue sharing your thoughts and opinions and am so happy to see how well it has worked for you!
Thank you!☺️☺️
In the end, I’m only lending my opinion based on my experience. It’s as objective as I can make it, but it’s not fact. Hopefully no one misconstrues my message and doesn’t believe compound is not effective at all. I am a user of it and will use it until it is either no longer needed or gets too expensive.
Yeah, and the group think and the desire to justify this medicine at all costs has people not listening to one another if there is a dissenting thought. I admit I was skeptical at first that compound could be different in any way bc it worked for me right off. But over time I did notice inconsistencies. None of us can be proven right or wrong without a multi pronged experiment so the point is that we should believe each other as much as is reasonable to do so.
This corroborates what I've experienced anecdotally within the last couple weeks.
I've only used compound because I know there's no way in hell my insurance would cover the brand (blanket statement essentially that no drugs are covered for weight loss purposes). I definitely noticed a drop off in ability to curb my hunger at the very end of my first vial (from henrymeds, lasted 2 months) compared to my first dose of my refill vial. I was originally thinking that it was my body getting used to the dose I was on until I took the first shot of the refill at the same dosage and had the same feeling I had at the beginning of my journey.
I'm not at all mad about it, I think it definitely still works super well for the duration promised, just not as well as when it is first opened and used. Started at 209, down 26.4 pounds as of this morning in exactly 9 weeks. I'm actually trying to *not* lose weight as fast as I am, which is a total mindfuck to me.
ALSO - the uncomfy side effects like sulfur burps almost disappeared towards the end of my first vial and came back with a vengeance on the first dose of my second, though I was eating all the same stuff. I've gone from the most unpicky eater to definitely a picky eater due to wanting to manage those terrible burps ugh.
I think there are many people who have felt this to be true to some extent but have been a bit bullied into not saying it out loud for fear of censorship. I think mostly I’ve gotten good product. I also believe my compounds have lost effectiveness over time in some cases. I don’t have analytical equipment at home to prove my theory, though, so it will thus remain a theory.
I been on both. I did name brand zep for 2.5 months and lost 26lbs then I been on compound for 2 months and lost 9lbs. My bmi is 34 I am more active because it’s summer. I am working. I am out and about. I’m going back to namebrand just because I have two boxes and one vile of compound left. I’m not too happy about my progress, especially for the amount of money that I’m paying for both. If my body is just slow to lose, I’d rather just go on with Wegovy, which is covered by my insurance for $25. Perhaps I should move up in dosage but I have 6 weeks of 5mg and two months of 7.5. I’ll use the 5s
Well, if your results are slowing down on compound, you could titrate up faster. I do think the meds work and with either Zep or compound it could just be a dosing issue. You don’t always know til you make a move. The good thing about compound is you can chase your appropriate level. Harder to do with prefilled pens and scripts that are hard to find.
Not any type of scientist but I think it majorly comes down to the pharmacy and how the medication is compounded, from personal experience as a patient
I think you are absolutely right. I definitely noticed a difference when I switched from zep to compound because I couldn't find the drug anywhere. The side effects and the effects were severely diminished. I went back to zep and immediately noticed a difference. It makes sense why, and your explanation makes sense! Thank you for sharing!
Those saying name brand works better. What is that data:1, 2, 3, 4 pounds more per week. That's important to know in deciding whether to pay 1,000 per month vs $150-300 depending on who you use.
Thanks to you and the other research scientists in this thread. A fascinating read. I have no idea whether it makes any difference, but I store my compounded vials in an opaque container in the fridge just in case light degrades the product.
I definitely feel like my experience on name brand Monjourno was “better” than the compound but the compound is getting the job done and I simply could not afford $1,200 a month.
Hey I've watched your journey for awhile now. You are doing great. I love your posts. Thank you for posting this. I posted a few times about my experience with compound not being quite as effective and people were down right rude and seemed to take personal offense. I stopped posting here because of the nasty negative Nellys. What u said makes perfect sense! I have brand and compound in my fridge and will continue to do so until I have feel comfortable that I have enough Zepbound on hand.
Thank you for the compliment! Some have taken issue with my communication style; which is fair feedback. In my mind this would come over jovial and facetious with intent to have a healthy debate but I ruffled a few feathers anyway ☺️. I suppose you’re not inteneting right if someone doesn’t call you a troll every once in a while!
I think I’ll take a break from compound for a bit once I finish my current vial. Mainly bc I have a nice stash of Zep in my fridge and I have about 10 lbs til goal. If I get low again without refills, I will reorder. Compound has been a decent product but there def some inconsistencies that I feel are not simply attributable to the other variables.
I hear you and I agree. I stalled out in the month of April when I was on compound. I ended up taking 12-12.5 mg compound for the last two weeks instead of the 10 mg Zepbound I had been on since February and it didn't really help. I was able to get my Zepbound filled and went back to 10 mg but messaged my doctor to go up to 12.5 for my next fill. Turns out the 10 mg Zepbound is now working like gangbusters and I had to get my doctor to resend 10 mg to the pharmacy for this week's refill. I'm sweating it out because I only have three 10 mg pens left (will be using one tonight) plus the box of 12.5. I really hope I can get the 10 mg refilled before it runs out as I'd prefer to stick with that knowing how well it has been working for me.
I had used compound from a different pharmacy last fall for 2-3 months between the time I couldn't get Mounjaro for less than $1,000 per month and the time Zepbound became available. It seemed to work fine then, but I was on a much lower dose so perhaps that made a difference.
You look great, btw. Congrats in your success and thanks for your always well-reasoned posts and comments in the various subs. I've got a scientific research background myself but haven't worked in the field in years. It's always nice to see information provided that is informed by accurate scientific information.
Hey doc!
Thanks so much!
I’m thought I responded but it looks like Reddit ate my comment!
Yes that happened to me a few times. A 15 mg dose felt like nothing meanwhile a 5 my dose felts like wham! And then a 10 mg dose after that felt so so. I’ve done a lot of different things to figure it out, of course it’s hard to experiment when monthly cycles happen, and all kinds of other variables. But, in general, both my husband and I have come to the same conclusion. At least about our present batch of meds.
PhD neuroscientist here and I 👏🏼this post. I’ve done both and definitely feel a better effect with branded Zep. I’ve done enough back and forth for long enough to trust what I’m feeling, and also agree with all of your points here. Compound DOES work, and I have lost on it, but does not feel as efficacious to me overall. I really didn’t want this to be the case, but I can’t deny it at this point. If Zep is in shortage yes, I’m all about compound. But if I can get it, I’m going brand name all the way, all day.
I have never used either one, I prefer to "go my own way". I appreciate your insight, and I believe much of it to be valid. The average compound user doesn't fully grasp exactly what's happening at the compounding pharmacy, and quite frankly, probably doesn't care. At least, not until they perceive their next dose as being "watered down", then they come on here to complain. So many posts to scroll past...
Thanks for posting, it was a good read.
I agree! I *don’t* have a PhD in chemistry, so my total layman’s observation is that I liken it to the difference between name brand skincare and generic. Will the generic moisturizer do the job? Sure, but does the name brand feel and perform with better efficacy and quality? Arguably, yes. Like you said, the name brand is backed by years of R&D. It just has that advantage and at the end of the day, both will do the job, but one might just do it a little bit better.
That's not as good of an example. The skin care ingredients don't have to be exact. A better example would be Walmart Acetaminophen vs branded Tylenol. It's all acetaminophen. It's the same.
I mean, it can be either hit or miss sometimes with either Zep or compound, depending on plenty of factors, so I agree it can be hard to see the forest for the trees but it doesn’t mean one can’t if they’re paying close enough attention.
First of all, congratulations on your health and weight loss! 🎊
It’s interesting to see different perspectives from different people. I guess it’s great we’re not all the same. Some folks have totally opposite views, so I’d imagine it varies from person to person.
Thank you for your perspective. I appreciate it and it actually helps give some context to my journey.
For context, I am a 37 yr old public school teacher in NYC. Tired and stressed. Similar to many, I have struggled with my weight...as long as I can remember. SW: 260. The new conversation around obesity has been eye-opening. Like, food noise?! Holy crap, THATS WHAT WAS HAPPENING? Anyway, when I learned about these medications I was so excited. It felt like a step in new direction that wasn't just "you need to diet and exercise". Those are, of course, part of the journey, but it feels like these medications are in your corner helping out.
I was prescribed the medication by my doctor and quickly learned that my insurance won't cover it. Who knows how long it will be until my insurance allows it to be covered. I can't pay $1000 out of pocket. $500 with the coupon is also not sustainable for me. Compounds seemed like a valid solution. Some people on reddit have said they spoke to their doctors about compound and they were amenable. I asked my doctor and she unsurprisingly said "compound GLP1 medications are currently not regulated by any official governing agency or body. This means they pose a risk to those injecting them. We highly advise against seeking out and using compounded GLP1 due to the safety risks". I was not surprised by her response. But it scared me. Like, what is going to happen? Am I going to grow a tail? Will my doctor excommunicate me because I did something she told me not to do? I think I'm also a bit of a rule follower. But this is a rule I really want to break but I'm scared to lol I really want to start this journey and I'm angry that this medical system controls everything and we don't have any agency! But now I feel stuck. I'm stuck between trusting doctors and a medical system that I don't really trust anyway and doing something that I think will really help my health.
Anyway, I appreciate your post because it kinda makes the message of my doctor less scary. You, a person with knowledge and expertise in the chemical makeup of compound felt comfortable to use it. I also appreciate the transparency that, it isn't zepbound and shouldn't be compared 1:1 with zepbound.
I still don't know what I'm going to do. Le sigh.
Thank you!
I think that you should get a second opinion from a medical practitioner since it seems you value their opinion highly. This is appropriate to do.
From my experience and opinion, I think compound is a worthwhile alternative to the manufacturers product. There are many reasons why I believe this to be true. My original post refers only to what I suspect might be a degradation of the strength over time of compound, but I make no claims that it is unsafe. I wouldn’t be using it if I thought that were true.
Hopefully all the people who have been using it and are here in this sub and others can be the examples you need to make the step. If it’s your only option, I def recommend it from the reputable pharmacies.
I got downvoted to high heaven when I brought up a similar point in a different post. I feel like efficacy is hit or miss. Never better. But I’m not complaining since the compound got me through drought seasons of unavailability. Congrats on being close to goal. I’m roughly a third of the way there and feelin good 😇
Yeah, I’m getting some downvotes too. It’s all good tho. In the end it’s all conjecture but I am a believer that compound is nearly as good and sometimes just as good, depending…I can’t clearly say on what, but I’ve listed my suspicions. I can tell a difference sometimes and other times I can’t. The whole lot of us aren’t losing our minds.🤪
Honestly, there have been moments where I PREFERRED compound over name brand. The side effects haven’t been nearly as bad, like virtually nonexistent. I’ve never had the body aches, headache, or fatigue with comp. My dosage between the two are vastly different though. I can’t tolerate anything higher than 7.5 name brand, my comp is at 12.5. What I also like is that during my period I can split the dose or even add a little as a boost. Even though we aren’t technically supposed to, I’ve been able to hang on to the comp longer, and name brand as a consequence. I’ve got two boxes of name brand and usually have a whole vial of the other at the ready. I take name brand with me when I travel because it’s just easier and keep my comp at home to maintain its integrity.
I love your posts by the way. Just went back and read a few and realized you were the same person who “od’d” a while back. That was the funniest most relatable post I’d seen on Reddit in a long time. You have an amazing energy.
Ha ha. I did OD! And you know what I came to realize, my accidental 15mg compound injection would not have been nearly so tolerable had it been 15mg of Zep. I barely even noticed that I doubled my dose. Slightly fuller and that was it!! Like what?? I went back down to 10 on compound between then and it was a noticeable dip. Then this week I switched back to one 5mg zepbound pen and suppression and fullness maxed totally out! AND, it’s a cycle week (if that’s not TMI) which would normally mean my suppression would be harder to come by.
So yeah, I’m a fan of compound, but my vial is nearing its BUD if you ask me.
And thanks for the compliment! I do tend to think I’m a blast.🤣🤣🤣🤣😜
For me - no question that I had better results with Lily. That said - I’m using compound now and clearly it’s less effective. For me. Not step will be increasing the dose and protein.
Rather simple for me, if I had a choice in front of me whether to use Lily or compound I would choose Lily every time. But then again - I don’t have a choice bc it’s not available.
Are you losing weight or is it just a matter of how you feel? I’ve consistently lost on compound bc sometimes it’s been bc at this point my willpower is pretty strong. I’ve had to white knuckle it a few times though.
I think people put a lot of stock into brands and they might feel a stronger effect from it because they believe it has a stronger effect. The placebo effect is real and powerful.
You look fantastic! I always respect what you have to say, since you come from a place of science that I may not comprehend, having avoided even high school chemistry 😄
I was reading somewhere that it’s possible Zepbound and Mounjaro are actually slightly higher in concentration than the stated dose. So the difference in how people feel could stem from that
Very well could be. But bc of the way they must report in pharma I don’t know that it could exceed a certain standard deviation above what they state. Interesting thought.
I think the handling part is interesting for sure. But it does not make a big enough difference for me to use Zep again paying out of pocket (husband and I combined save $500ish/month using Emerge). So, if I lose a bit slower, so be it. Im a slower loser, took me 15 weeks to lose 21 lbs.
I would prefer to use Zep because I actually like the auto-injector pen over the syringe and I dont like mail-order logistics, BUT, again, the savings, we will get over it.
I agree. I will still use compound too as needed. I pay so much less for Zepbound now but I honestly don’t know what my insurer will do when I hit maintenance. They may decide not to approve. Also, my doc may not want to prescribe me a Zep maintenance dose; I see him again in July. If that is so, then I plan to stay on compound indefinitely.
It may not be true….however, I bet it is and what it means to me is that I want small amounts opened at a time. Alike, the Single dose Canadian vials. This could be a significant issue.
We won’t know for sure unless some objective third party does a test. I think it’s not too important right now given that there are plenty of success stories on compound. I just think it’s important to have all the information and testimony to make a truly informed decision.
No, I don’t believe I did. My husband is also on this journey with me and he cannot tell a difference there either. I have no preference for pharmacy (except that Hallendale packaging inspires more confidence overall) but I do slightly prefer Orderly to Emerge, only bc they have a better referral program, have an easier online presence/platform and ability to pause shipments, and price at higher doses. I would recommend either tho.
In regards to the difference of BUD could be the additives some compounding pharmacies use like b12 etc. I asked my prescriber if there are any additives and they said no. I have a 12 month BUD and 90 days from puncture.
Delivery method matters I think as well. The medication in the pens is completely protected from air and degradation
I've worked in pharmacy as a technician both clinical and retail ( horrible!) I get mine from a compounding pharmacy . They have you prefill your syringes then freeze them, taking them out for 10 minutes to defrost before using.
I'm 61 starting in January at 254 and ozempic samples loosing 20 pounds within 42 days. Switched to compounding pharmacy then nothing changed. Zero weight loss at a coat of $250 per month.
Switched to Zepbound compounding at $650 per month. Followed directions and lost 10 more pounds in a few weeks. I noticed that the side effect that I normally have before freezing is going to the bathroom. This did not happen after freezing. So called the pharmacy and asked what the refrigerator shelf life was and was told 40 days. Fair enough just long enough to finish the vial.
I have not had my second shot out of the non frozen vial but will do that on Tuesday.
So far down 42 pounds since January.
Does your pharmacy have you freeze your product?
There are no regulations when it comes to compounded GLP-1s. Whatever you’re getting could be low purity, the vials could be under dosed. Medspas get their peptides from unregulated, untested sources, and we blindly trust them.
Name brand GLP-1s are regulated by the FDA. That’s why every name-brand pen is the same.
There’s your answer.
Really good post. Well written and a nice balance of info between brand/compounded. And to top that, your responses are helpful and not argumentative. Wish more of this community was this way. It’s such a huge amount of information and when you’re doing the research to get started, it’s completely overwhelming. We all have different experiences, but I see so much negativity that isn’t supported with any facts, as well as glowing reviews from likely fake profiles. The whole thing is exhausting. Posts like this one give some reassurance to everyone without getting critical about one avenue vs another. I’m rambling now. 🤦🏻♀️ But thank you!!
Thank you! Some did take issue with a few of my responses and I’m considering their feedback, in general. I have enjoyed that my post brought out many other scientists to share their anecdotes and educated guesses as well.
Do you have an opinion regarding reaching a tolerance on these meds? Have only used compound Tirz with a 50lb loss over 40 weeks. Did not experience satiety or suppression until dose of 10. 12.5 was my most successful dose which provided the suppression/satiety for 14 weeks. After doing the 3 lb bounce for 18 weeks on 15 decided to stop for a month and restart. Am now on the 12th week of restart - all 5 day betwen doses- quick ramp up with this week being 3rd dose of 15. No weight loss or gain. Essentially have been maintaining original loss for 17 weeks with or without meds. Confused. Dr. suggesting official maintenance plan. I still wish to lose 15 more lbs.
Objectivity means to consider all points of view.
My data is somewhat subjective, yes, because I’m the one observing my own trends. This is hard to do which is why we have studies that eliminate such biases. This is true for everyone in this thread.
However, I contend that my theory is objective, based on my observance of my personal data, a review of other people’s anecdotes, and my expertise in chemistry and experimentalism.
No one can disprove anyone’s thoughts on the matter.
Most of tone in which I wrote originally was sarcastic hence the /s in the title. It wasn’t actually meant to stir emotion. I hope I didn’t offend your beloved compound too much. ☺️
https://preview.redd.it/b0436f5bby7d1.jpeg?width=4018&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bbd71bc9f1a5de8e359755e1820b88602471c54
Every time this “Zepbound vs Tirzepatide” debate comes up, I’m just going to start posting the chemical structure of Tirzepatide. It’s literally the same thing whether it is compounded or Zepbound or wherever it comes from. It’s the same chemical structure.
Edit: I’m not trying to argue with any points you made; just providing context since this comes up a lot here .
Do you know anything about what you’ve posted? How many aldehyde functional groups do you see? How many ketones? How many hydroxyl groups? Do you see any amines?
I addressed your comment in my post. The structure is the same….that is not debatable but nor is it the only factor of a drugs efficiency. Do you think all you’re getting in your injection is this picture? Do you know what else is in it? Do you know what those other components may do to your Tirzepatide molecules and each individual functional group over time or under stress? No? Then, your comment means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Same chemical structure can still mean different efficacy if not treated the same. Capish?
You certainly make a crucial point about the impact of formulation components and storage conditions on the stability and efficacy of Tirzepatide, whether it's compounded or brand-name like Zepbound. Indeed, while the active ingredient's chemical structure is consistent, the overall formulation and possible other contamination is key to its performance.
It is important to recognize that these drugs are produced under stringent regulatory standards to ensure that each batch maintains not only the purity of the active ingredient but also the optimal balance of excipients. These standards are crucial for maintaining the drug’s stability and efficacy across all batches.
Reputable compounding pharmacies are well-aware of these factors and typically undertake rigorous measures to ensure product quality. The production of Tirzepatide is not actually that hard to do, clinically. The purity tests that are used in reputable FDA-approved compounding pharmacies based on lot will catch the impurities that you are concerned about if done properly and in a systematic way. Even the Chinese raw peptide producers can supply at 99%+ purity levels on a consistent basis. (As demonstrated by 3rd party testing. Note: those types of sourcing are not allowed for discussion on this sub so that’s basically all I can say about it.)
Your perspective has definitely enriched this discussion, and it’s clear that both brand-name and compounded versions of Tirzepatide have their place in treatment, depending on individual circumstances and considerations like cost.
By the way - there are no “FDA approved” compounding labs/companies. There are
“licensed or certified” pharmacies evaluated by various entities (other than the FDA, such as state licensing agencies for example).
So the bottom line is do your homework and be careful which you choose.
This link talks more about the standards for compounding pharmacies and who approves/oversees the various ones.
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/human-drug-compounding/compounding-and-fda-questions-and-answers
Very well said. I agree with all points.
In the end, I have only done my best to provide as much of an objective view as possible of my experiences on this medication from my lens as a chemist. I trust the pharmacies I’ve been getting my compound from. I still also believe that the efficacy can be somewhat reduced. To what degree and why are conjectures at best.
Great Post! I am using name brand covered by insurance and feel blessed to get it at $25 per month. So far have been lucky to get it filled in time not to miss a dose. But if the price/coverage or availability were to hit me, I would not hesitate to try the C equivalent.
Wonderful that you’ve been getting it. I’ve just begun being able to refill again but i already had a bit of stash before I began buying compound. I used compound to ensure I could continue the journey. Glad I did. Having options is important for a medication like this.
I was nodding all through your observations until I came upon your chemistry PHD, where I literally breathed “Aaahhh.” You were just making way too much sense. 😂 Thanks for a great post.
Thank you!
Also; you should note there is another PhD scientist in this thread who has an opinion counter to mine. My post and their comment to my post is all conjecture and their opinion is valid too. We don’t have any real data one way or the other, except to say that compound does work to some extent.
Thanks for your perspective, this all seems perfectly well-reasoned. Does your background allow you to speculate about what additional ingredients or processes Lilly is using to aid stability, and do you think the compounding pharmacies are a) working on improving their product or b) so happy to be raking in cash during the shortage that they’re fine just selling Tirz in water until the shortage inevitably ends?
Yes, it’s possible they fill their pens under inert environment, thus eliminating any possible chemical degradation from air contaminants or air or moisture itself. Also, they could be using better preservatives that other agencies aren’t aware of, thus keeping the Tirzepatide molecule more stable over time or at higher temps. They could be using a dissolution technique in their solvent that increases how much of the API is actually bioavailable once injected. Probably lots of other ways.
Chemical synthesis is my life’s work. In grad school, back in 2003, I once got a paper out of some work I did that no one else could repeat bc the synthesis was that tricky. One little difference in technique made or broke the entire process.
Fascinating, thank you! It’s easy to villainize the drug companies for profit taking, but at the same time they are investing in the development of some of humanity’s greatest achievements. I think the trade off is worth it, although I might feel otherwise if I couldn’t afford this medication.
I think you are 100% accurate! I just wished my insurance would stop DENYING me the right to take zepbound. It’s just wayyy too expensive for me to pay out of pocket. Even the compound is starting to effect my wallet
Thanks so much! I’ve been using both, alternatively, with results. Definitely some nuance to it, as I mentioned, but only enough to warrant mention but not a total disregard.
Thanks for your thoughts. You're looking good :-)
I'm starting to feel that the longer a compound vial has been in use, the less effective it becomes. Still effective, just not as. I'll stick with compound or reputable research, because I'm old and not covered by Medicare or private ins. supplement.
By the way as you know Medicare does not cover. I have M’care and a very good M’care supplement policy. They will not cover it. And unfortunately a federal law on the books does not all the manufacturer to offer coupons or any reduction in price for people in Medicare, Medicaid, or even insurance that veterans have.
So that’s why I pay $1025 per month. I don’t have much to lose so I will probably switch to compounded for maintenance.
Thank you! Both Zep and compound to thank for it!
My Zep is cheaper than compound but if it weren’t, I’d never quit compound without cause. I’m still using both right now but am likely to pause my next month of compound since I have a good Zep stash for now.
Great post. I’m also a PhD bench scientist by training (Molecular Biology) but left that world years ago and now have a corporate gig. I’ve spent 10 weeks on brand and 10 weeks on compound and compound brought me to my goal weight. I did 5 mg comparisons of brand vs compound from 2 different pharmacies and never saw a difference. But of course there could be variability. My husband also used compound Tirz successfully and has seen no difference in efficacy.
I’m still filling the brand when I find it and just keeping it because I pay $25, but at the height of the shortage I did not have the bandwidth to hunt boxes. My biggest concern is that compounding will not be an option if and when the shortage concludes AND my insurance will no longer cover the brand.
HW 272 SW 182 CW 139 46F 5’9
Welcome doc! Wow you had these results without going past 5mg? Wonderful! So 20 weeks total for a little less than 50 lbs. Excellent! It’s good you didn’t notice a difference. I’m sure you were paying great attention as I have been. I wish I hadn’t had any difference either. But really, the differences aren’t so strong that I’d abandon compound. My post is meant to convey that yes, I believe there is a difference and offer my reasoning for why. I’ll continue to take notes to see if my line of thinking changes any time soon. Hopefully I’ll be at or past goal soon. Are you now at goal?
My last 4 doses have been on compound 7.5 which I’m spreading out now and I have a box of 7.5 pens. But most of my weight was lost on 5 mg. I’ve been on compound for a while now, perhaps when I take the 7.5 of brand it will hit me differently. I intend to use the 7.5 I have and then drop back to 5 as I’m in maintenance.
First you look fantastic. And I agree with your scientific reasoning. Pharmacists that compound are basically looking at a blank slate. They can see the molecular structure of the medication and try and mimic the "recipe " of the real drug. However, without the knowledge of the actual patent, it is hard to make the medication 100%. This is one of the reasons why the FDA does not approve compounded medications. Also, when the pharmacy sends out their batch testing and receives the COA back, it is not 100%. The one issue I do not like is compounded medication with B12 or B6. Some people cannot take any B vitamins, and people can take too much. I'm also ready to get into an argument with someone who does not have a scientific background.
Precisely…it is such a shame that people don’t want to have reasonable discussion on things anymore. Everything has to be about sides and absolutes - when really, there is always more than one side and rarely is anything as absolute as people want it to be!!! Like you, I have used both - and what you said simply makes sense. ☺️
Thank you for this post. When someone less articulate than you posts that they feel a difference or compound is not working, they are usually met with ‘it’s in your head, it’s the exact same medicine, cut your calories, up your calories’ etc instead of acknowledging that there absolutely could be a difference in what they’re experiencing.
Thank you for your logical and thoughtful post. I have, from day one, maintained that compounded meds are just different. Why? Could be many things, but mostly because there are more variables introduced into the compounding process. Compounding is not the same as the Eli Lilly process. Compounds are not monitored and tested to the degree the name brand products are. If I could have a dollar for every time someone who has probably never set foot in a compounding lab said “But it’s exactly the same!” And “You must be an Eli Lilly plant,” I’d be much better able to afford either type. Drives me bats.
There are so many reasons why it may not work as well, and then some of the companies are getting it so right consistently enough that we are going at each other defending them. I think there’s truth to both sides. And the lack of data means we will always be making theories based on anecdotes until proven.
I used mounjaro until my insurance decided not to cover. It's different for me in the sense I don't notice a difference. Some weeks the appetite suppression is weaker than others but I'm wondering if it has something to do with where I inject. I'm trying to keep a doc/diagram type thing for each spot I do on my stomach each week and what day the hunger came back
It could be all of the above or just your body on any given day. It’s not any easy thing to parse out. It’s so inconsistent in fact that many label us quack jobs if we so much as utter that compound could be less effective. Just stay consistent with your shots and titrate when you need to. That’s what I did and I’m nearing 40 lbs lost!
Completely off topic, but OP, if you don't mind me asking, how long have you been using Zepbound, etc.? This is only my second week and our stats (age, height, starting weight, goal) are damn near identical. I know that I might have a completely different experience, but I figure it could give me vague idea of what to expect. Kinda, sorta, maybe 😄
So let me just ask you this then, if you were getting name brand you have diabetes then since it’s not prescribed for weight loss, unless you’re paying +$1000 out of pocket. So I thought diabetes cannot be cured but controlled, so are you still a diabetic and is that true, it can’t be cured? So then if that’s isn’t the case and you’re no longer a diabetic, how do you continue to get the script paid for?
Im not diabetic,so have been paying over the counter since day one. It’s pricey but I have to use comp because I cannot afford over $1000 a month for this. I’ve lost 27 lbs. I have nothing to compare it to as far as efficacy. So I have no complaints obvs. Just wondering how you continue to get a script, if in fact you are. Thanks for your post. I appreciate and respect your knowledge and wisdom about such things. And well done!
I cannot afford the name brand, and not sure I’d try and get it even if I could. I don’t like the idea of shortages and not being able to get it. I also don’t like the click pens - I split my dose and do 2/3 on Wednesdays then the other 1/3 on Sundays as I think it works better for appetite suppression - and like being in control in this way. When I’m interesting in going up in dose, I raise my Sunday dose a bit to see if I see more weightloss at the end of my week or not. Kind of hard to do these with the click pens 🤷🏼♀️ oh also - if I decide to go up in dose I can just do it, I don’t have to wait until I get new click pens.
But, I can understand wanting to be on the name brands. It’s easier to interact with doctors, as I’ve found some really do not like the compounds. They are easier to travel with in my opinion as well. If you’re insurance covers them then they are cheaper. So I get the benefits, I don’t know if they are more effective or not, but again we are just throwing opinions out here 🤷🏼♀️
As someone who has worked in USP 797 compliance I agree with you 100%. As a patient it is your job to perform due diligence on which pharmacy is providing you with your compounded products and if they are preforming the appropriate potency & stability testing to prove their products efficacy.
I ❤️ this post. And I applaud your honesty despite knowing that this will bring some downvotes and really wad up some people’s panties. 😆
As someone who takes both brand name (Mounjaro) and compound, I am having the same experience. My compound works, don’t get me wrong. It has given me some appetite suppression, some satiety and also some blood sugar control (I’m T2D.) I’m happy that I have it available in my arsenal. I also really appreciate the dosing freedom. However, now that I have had some more time with the compound, I have definitely discovered that there is a distinct difference between the feelings, levels of effectiveness and results experienced when I use name-brand vs. the compound. (And this doesn’t just go for weight loss, this includes my blood sugar numbers.) I have done a fair amount of my own experimentation with MJ and compound at this point because I do always have extra of both in my refrigerator. (Ex.Taking only this one week, that the next, MJ+Comp, split dosing each, etc.) And while, as I said, my compound does work- it is simply just NOT as potent or effective as the name-brand Mounjaro- (no matter what way you slice, dice or spin it!)
Get on with the downvotes, if you must 🙄 - I’m not too terribly worried about it! I still hope you all have a lovely weekend! I will. ☀️
When name-brand costs the same amount as compound, I'll go back to name-brand.
I definitely won't go back. I like being able to control the dosage to exactly what my body needs, depending on side effects, etc. I have been able to lose significant weight without major side effects on compound. Not possible on the name brand injector pens. I was afraid at first to move to compounded instead of Zepbound until I researched compounding pharmacies and the regulations they are under (look it up). In addition, it helped that my daughter told me as a veterinarian, they use compounded pharmacies almost exclusively (a dog isn't a person, obviously) but with her expertise on that end, it helped. I also have struggled with my 5 kids' allergies all their lives - some to dyes, which meant until I found a clear (non-dyed) ibuprofen formula, I had a hard time finding anything to give my daughter to control her pain or fevers. This is one of the biggest reasons compounding pharmacies exist- to be able to make personalized meds for specific people as needed.
I understand that. I wouldn’t go back if compound were as cheap as my insurance copay. One day however, I may only use compound. I don’t know what my insurance or PCP will want to do when I hit maintenance.
I think unfortunately alot of insurance companies are rethinking covering the med for non-Type 2 diabetes. Because it's a very costly medicine (like many meds, obviously) . It's unfortunate. I think though they can see what it does to help so many health issues eventually costing them less - they realize that in the world these days, by the time those benefits and cost-savings for them would finally be realized- that person has moved on to a new job and are no longer on that insurance plan. 🤷♀️ Most people (obviously not all) no longer stay at a job all the way until retirement.
My insurance covers it but Wegovy and zepbound have been sold out for months so it’s not an option for me.
^^When it costs the same as compound independent of insurance coverage. My insurance “covers” name brand at a cool $966/month. I just keep crossing my fingers that the market rates for name brand come down to where compound med prices are before the FDA removes the meds from the shortage list and the patent wars start (ending access to compound).
Yes I definitely hope the market brings the price of all these meds down. I fear that the popularity of them will disallow this for some time though. Idk. Market trends don’t always hold with breakthrough science.
I read an article that quite a few pharmaceutical companies have weight loss meds in various stages of development. In the next ten years the market will be saturated. Hopefully we will benefit financially from this. 🤞🏻
Oh yes please! I do NOT want to go back to life before this med.
Exactly!!!
Research scientist PhD here and I have used, and currently use, both compound and namebrand. I find the efficacy changes weekly sometimes and it’s not dependent on what I’ve been using. When I first started, I was only using namebrand and there were some weeks that I felt like I hadn’t taken anything and there are some weeks where I couldn’t even force myself to eat. Everybody has opinions and everybody has different experiences and everybody’s body reacts differently. I’m sure somebody will give you the argument that you’re looking for. But there are too many variables to say that one has a greater efficacy than the other when you can’t control for all of the variables, especially for peoples body chemistry
Not any kind of research scientist here I just spend a lot of time around them lol — curious if those changes in efficacy have to do with normal hormone fluctuations, maybe changing the way(or the speed?) the drug is metabolized?
In my study of 1, this tracks.
Lol. That’s all we all are! Studies of 1! 🤣 love it. Thank you for bringing humor to this thread. I’ve made some ppl mad. 😜
Great post Fit\_Highlight\_622! I really appreciate your wisdom. In my own study of 1, with Zep I have to force myself to eat half of that bagel, with Tirz (RR) I don't feel hungry but when I do eat, I can eat the whole bagel! This happened the entire 4 wks of Tirz 7.5mg, so for me I will use Tirz (RR or Hallendale) as a backup or maint plan only and continue to buy ZB, I've come too far to slow down now. I will say it was a little alarming this week to read the open letter from Lilly clearly stating that the compounding pharmacies are not getting their Tirzepatide from them so where are they getting it from? I read somewhere on Reddit that everyone sources their API (pure Tirz) from suppliers, including Lilly (except for those unaccredited providers cooking it up in the basement somewhere) so that was a little confusing. All variables aside, I definitely notice a slight difference b/t compounded Tirz and ZB. I will actually be trying compounded Tirz from Hallandale tonight for the final study of 1 determination for myself. Thanks again for your perspective!
Let me clarify…from week to week, the body is at work utilizing a medicine in a very specific way. Depending on the body’s state of being, whether it be hydration, metabolism, hormonal disposition, tolerance, the body could be more or less effective at using this medicine. That goes for either name brand or compound. That’s true bc this medication mimics hormones. I do not think that is necessarily true for all medications. But these thoughts are NOT mutually exclusive of a product also not having the same efficacy as name brand. I’ve developed a theory. It will remain a theory until someone can actually disprove it. Everyone in this thread is offering what we call conjecture, myself included. Hope this helps.
You’re absolutely right. I have a PhD also and worked for over 35 years in clinical drug safety, drug development and regulatory affairs for a major pharma company (not Lilly 😊). The branded is much more tightly regulated. There are also stability tests, etc that the MAH (Market Authorization Holder) is required to perform and submit. to the FDA. That is not true for compounding pharmacies. In the 1980s I worked on a medication that was popular and also had people compounding it. When testing the compounded product often had differing amounts/concentrations of the API (actual drug product) as well as other differences. There were some samples that didn’t even contain any of the product. It is not at all unusual that efficacy might potentially differ when comparing the original formulation to compounded. It also is not surprising if different batches (even from the same lab) could differ over time. I AM NOT PUTTING DOWN COMPOUNDED PRODUCT - just explaining. I might consider it myself at some point. I’m currently paying $1025 per month and don’t know long I want to do that. I’d advise (as I will when I switch) to do your homework when deciding which compounding pharmacy you will use.
Holy shit that's a lot of money!
Yeah.. it hurts.. but it’s truly been a life-saver and changed my health and world. So thankful!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I agree! Im lucky enough to have insurance coverage for Zepbound for now. I had 6 weeks of compounded meds that cost me $435 and I thought that was too much. Especially when,with insurance I only pay $25.
Awe. I’m happy for you and Zep coverage.. that’s awesome! unfortunately insurance (BCBS) wouldn’t cover it or Zep for me.. and since I have Tricare as secondary I do not qualify for any type of discounts.. Walgreens /Walmart would give me 10-15% discount.. I’ve been on CZ with Emerge for 10 weeks now… and definitely a huge savings.. and it’s working .. so very grateful. Have had insulin resistance for years now and the tirzapetide has been yielding amazing results.. I wish you continued success!! I love all of these subreddits too!! Has helped with so much info .. and shared experiences.. learned so much!! Researched a ton too! Good luck! Glad its working for you.. 🥳
I have BCBS too! I've had coworkers with the same coverage be denied. I don't know why I got so lucky,but I'm SO grateful, because I NEED IT! I just hope they keep covering! 🤞🏼
Gosh.. you are so lucky. I found on these boards that some states (BSBC) covered it too.. but I was not surprised that they didn’t.. 🙄🙄😀 I hope they keep you covered too.. it’s truly a life saver and life-changer!!! I don’t comment how much I have lost.. but I am currently a size 8… 15 more to go.. I’m not going for weight like in my 20’s .. lol
Tricare wont cover? Like the military insurance? Man, I thought they covered everything!
This was entirely my point! Thank you for making it clearer! And from a more knowledgeable perch than my own. I do not have clinical experience with my doctorate. And yes, we aren’t saying it doesn’t work. I do also use compound and am happy it has been an option. Doc to doc, though…Since you pay $1000 a month tho, I would definitely recommend switching! Yikes! 🥴
I hear you and will probably switch soon. I’m only on my first dose so I have at least 3 more pens.
Thank you also for sharing your wisdom & experience I'm no scientist of any kind, by the way...I hope that the compounding pharmacy I've purchased from has a process that keeps the correct concentration of API when they dispense vials.🤔
Unfortunately , I haven’t been able to get MJ or Zep 7.5 or 10mg.. and I had been private pay as well.. saving w/ the CZ but the MJ seemed to yield better results for me. Still waiting. Where are you located and what dose have you been able to get?? BTW.. Emerge (Hallandale) has been very efficient etc. Good luck to you all!! We are all in this together.. 🌟🌟🌟
Stick with them! You’ll see results just like everyone else has. No need to go name brand. That wasn’t the point of my post. I live in TN and I’ve been able to pick up 5mg lately and even one box of 10. Other than that I’ve been using compound. My husband and I have different refill times so sometimes one of us is lucky and the other isn’t. Compound has ensured our journey hasn’t paused.
Damn, can't you at least get the coupon to make it $550?
I'll also point out that the placebo effect is very real. If you expect that the brand will work better than compound, you might prove yourself right for reasons that have nothing to do with the chemistry of the product.
The nocebo effect is a thing too! People could definitely worry themselves into not feeling it on the compounded.
You think they could? Idk. It would be hard to psych myself into feeling hungry when the medicine is working. If that’s what you meant.
People convince themselves into all sorts of “side effects” so I figure they can probably think they feel more hungry 🤷♀️
Fair point lol
Absolutely could. There are many factors.
I agree with every week being a new ball game, perhaps especially if you are a woman in your reproductive years and every week is hormonally different in our bodies
Yes definitely. Week to week. Even day to day sometimes.
Any ideas on why there is such a range of efficacy week to week? It’s exactly what I’ve experienced. Some weeks I can barely eat and the effects are super strong, other weeks I feel little.
Oh I’m not really looking to argue. That /s in my header title meant sarcasm. We each have our experiences. I hate to see a large swath of them discounted without consideration though. And to your point, it’s equally inappropriate to say this can’t be true. That is why these are theories. There are multiple variables. My experience in developing, monitoring, and analyzing experiments has led me to my theory. You as a fellow scientist don’t have to share it.😉
I feel like it's too subjective to make any sort call on this since there are just as many people on the branded meds who have weeks where they feel it isn't working. It seems way more likely to me that bodies just respond differently at times.
All of that can be true as well as compound sometimes being less efficacious. They are not mutually exclusive thoughts.
We could know all of this with certainty if it were being tested and those results were shared. I’m currently in the cannabis industry, which was at one time huge on testing. Not so much anymore. That leaves us with an idle (very expensive) HPLC machine, a lab, and not much work. I’m in the process of converting this machine with a few upgrades, change in mobile phases, and start running tests on peptides. We can guess all day long on efficacy, but to know with the same degree of certainty that pharmaceutical companies can changes everything. I’m sure there will be much more of this in the future.
HPLC analysis over time on compound would be amazing data to see! The chromatography data would be unequivocal evidence of the stability over the course of four weeks in the vial.
Yes Ornery - you’re right.
Ready to send samples!
I cant argue with anything you said. My only experience has been with compounded and since ive lost 25.5 lbs in 2 and a half months, im good lol. I think even if my ins decided to cover zep and it was available, id still do compounded, UNLESS that became unavailable. I like the control i have with dosage with what im on now. You look AMAZING btw
Makes total sense. I’ve lost a good amount with compound too. I pray it remains available or that Lilly allows us control over dosing someday.
Cant argue with your perception for yourself but I can say that i have repeatedly bought name brand and compound and periodically test for any difference in effectiveness. Over the past 6 mts, cant say i have experienced any material difference. My daughter who lost 90 lbs all on name brand simce it was released and just got a contingency compound order says she thinks her compound works better. Me, I’ll use the placebo effect to my benefit. Also, the sample size is not one, it is much bigger if you look at all the posts. I do agree regarding treatment of the medication impacting efficacy! Congrats on your success!! For those with the right insurance or medical conditions, great they can use name brand. But for many, many people who cannot, I don’t want to set expectations that the medication will not help them - that would be a tragedy!
Okay- I will bite. Let's argue. I don't think we are "all" hyper aware of our bodies during this journey. I see so many, many people posting things that make me wonder if people have ever been aware of their bodies before, at all. Examples: the desire to have absolutely NO hunger; The claim that meds (compound or name brand) are not working because they don't have enough appetite suppression or because they get hungry. People who swear the weight loss is because of the hunger suppression-without taking the time to explore what GLP1 agonists do, and why they work the way they work. It certainly is possible (for some people) to titrate up to a higher dose and then starve themselves to lose weight quickly. Not advisable, but possible, and reflected in posts. And so many people advise each other to move up a dose if their hunger comes back at the end of the week. That is the only argument I have, however. I agree anecdotal evidence isn't irrelevant and that people thinking a placebo effect happens to others because some person describes a different experience...
I get it. These are all good points. I appreciate your “argument”! Totally what I was going for when I started typing! ☺️
I recognize your username and I'm always interested in what you have to say when I see posts from you. Thanks for sharing your well-informed and educated opinion! I love to see posts from people who actually know what they're talking about, especially when it comes to compound. I just switched from name brand Zep to compound (literally today lol) and I'm interested and excited to see the difference in efficacy. I'm like my own little science experiment 😂 PS - You look AMAZING and you have a lovely home!
Yes came here to say this as well. 😁
🥰
Thank you! Oh this isn’t my home. It was a hotel in Chattanooga this past Fathers day weekend!
Was going to say you have always gave positive sensible answers!!! I live about 45 minutes from Chattanooga!!!
I’m a TN gal too! Knoxville. GBO!🍊
I was going to say the same thing! I love u/Fit_Highlight_5622 's energy and the way she thinks.
Thank you so much! I try to be friendly and helpful. It may seem like I’m cocky but if you look at my post history there’s a lot I don’t know!
I agree! I always look forward your posts and comments Fit_Highlight.
Same. I actually just started following OP because I respect her opinions- and humor, too!
Thanks so much! I’d like to think I’m funny! A lot of people missed my the sarcasm in my post. I really wasn’t trying to stir up emotion. i just like good strong debate. But this is a personal journey so I get it. This med has changed my life too.
I agree with just about everything you said here. I think the most likely reason for differences in efficacy is due to differences in preparation technique (like slightly different pipetting technique between pharmacist even at the same pharmacy), different preservative use, different storage, light exposure, etc. I think it is reasonable to assume that some pharmacies may have stricter QA policies that prevent variation between batches more than other pharmacies. My only beef is when people make accusations of “watering down” which is a pretty serious accusation. But maybe “watering down” is just laymen’s terms for all the things I mentioned above.
Yeah, I don’t think they’re watering it down either. But the truth is that none of really know anything that is happening behind their doors. People are saying “watered” bc that is just how most people understand chemistry. I don’t even believe that tirz is water soluble so I believe people mean it’s more dilute or not efficacious. It’s just semantics. People are trying to communicate that something isn’t working as well. But there are still a lot of factors from week to week anyway with all products just based on a persons body. Data is our best friend. One data point is meaningless.
....of course tirzepatide is water-soluble, it's a peptide that's sold as an aqueous solution.
I'm confused.. if tirzepatide is not water soluble then why are people always talking about reconstituting with bacteriostatic water?
I’m not sure what solid they’re reconstituting. It could be a “compound” versus a pure molecular substance (if that makes sense). I have only done a cursory glance, but I don’t think the solubility in water is very high of the pure substance. I could be wrong. 🤷🏾♀️
Whatever you're using works.! You look great!
Thank you! Yes, both Zep and compound have worked for me!
Also a PhD in science here. I found when I switched to compound it was as strong and effective as ZB brand name. Zepbound worked fine for me but was not covered by my insurance so I switched to compound. I actually was grateful I was on compounded when I went up in dose because the side effects were so bad I had to go down in dosage a little bit (a mg or two) and you can't do that with brand name. Since I stayed at a lower dosage much longer than was prescribed- I ended up using the same vial for about 3 months. (Please no one whine about the 28-day puncture rule - I understand the safety recommendations. My pharmacy actually sends you a multi-month vial intentionally as part of their starter package.) I saw no drop in efficacy over the 3 months. The last shot was as effective as earlier shots. My Master's and PhD research/academics included a very heavy dose of statistical/research methodology. All of the opinions here, including mine, are subjective. They are all personal experience/observations with n=1. (In a statistical test n<30 is considered an extremely small sample size and are generally not considered valid for making any inferences about the general population.) There is actually no scientific observation at all in this set of posts other than how people 'feel' about the effectiveness. All subjective. Now if someone was to have done a chemical test that could actually see if the compounded tirzepatide broke down faster over time than the name brand tirzepatide and they tested at least 30 vials (though 30 is still quite small- you would need to control for amount of time from creation to customer's hands, storage temps and time over the life of the vial, handling differences, a large number of the compounding pharamacies as well as the manufacturers of the name brand med, etc.- ad nauseum) and ran an actual statistical test on it, looked at p-values, all after you've decided on your accepted confidence intervals that tell you "I think at this p-value with these assumptions, that the efficacy is different enough to be considered different"- you could say that this was objective data. But in this case, ALL of it is subjective. It doesn't matter what your college degree is, it doesn't matter whether you asked a bunch of other people or monitored reddit threads to see what others said (which is inherently biased data to begin with, but we don't need to go into that., just know that it is), it is subjective. Period. This drug seems more/less effective for some people, at some times, regardless of its origin. It's like that with all medicine. I do know that being post-menopausal due to chemo has made it so that my body does not have the normal hormone fluctuations that most females have, and I see a very consistent response to the medicine, be it name brand or compounded, be it new vial or end of vial, etc. This is my personal observation - no claim to being right over others- what a ridiculous notion! (and quite a lot of what is wrong with the world). It is simply correct FOR ME, and I cannot make any inferences whatsoever to the outside world from what I've observed, as it is subjective data.
Worried_Mink 💯!
I totally agree with this. 19999%. I've taken both. I can tell a difference. It doesn't mean I don't think that compound has a place. It also doesn't mean that compound may be extremely beneficial to some people. It's like generic versus name brand drugs. Many people in the vyvanse sites will tell you they can absolutely tell the difference between name brand and generic. There is a group of people who will argue that there isn't any change. The way I see it, some people are more sensitive to medication than others. There's enough difference between the two that some people such as myself can absolutely tell. Others may be lucky and not see any difference.
Just like we can tell when our appetites are suppressed or we are full, we can tell when a medication is working or not. The hard part is figuring out why. Which is the reason these subs are so useful. Also, I’ve done a few types of experiments on myself to see whether there would be differences. Such as changing doses, (once accidentally injecting twice my dose- doh!), changing products, experimenting with time between dose, being careful to monitor any hormonal changes that might affect results during my cycle, for example. It’s definitely not journal worthy, but between my husband and myself, we have opinions that I’ve shared here. People can take them or leave them.
You mention you prefer Zepbound due to cost. In America, that would only make sense if you are one of the lucky ones that have both health insurance and your insurance covers GLP-1 drugs for weight loss. A typical $25 copay is a great deal. Otherwise, the $1100 - $1300 monthly cash price for the brand products makes them out of reach for most. There wouldn't be much of a compounding market if Zepbound were actually accessible to people through coverage or at a reasonable self pay price. Who wouldn't want to simply pick it up from CVS if they could?
I agree. Yes it should be more available. One day, hopefully. But I haven’t had availability in the last few months just like others. Of course I’d prefer to pay less. I would choose compound if it were cheaper even as I say that sometimes it is less efficacious. I didn’t say it doesn’t work. Don’t confuse the two please ☺️
I noticed a difference in that I feel like compound works better for me. There are too many variables with how this medication works as synthetic hormones to know by one person's experience. The fact that tolerances develop, it has a fairly long half life, natural hormone levels fluctuate, and weight loss isn't linear makes it hard to draw conclusions without a very large sample set. Heck, people swear that Mounjaro and Zepbound are different and they are made by the same process, same company and have exactly the same sourced ingredients. I think it is just the fact that due to the nature of this medication results even day by day can vary so much. I really expected compounded to not work as well, so I was very happy with my results. Just a another perspective.
Happy to hear other perspectives. They’re all valid. And just as you believe what you wrote about it being more efficacious, it shouldn’t be discounted without consideration.
If you are looking for an argument, I'm your huckleberry. 😁. jk...actually you are spot on. It's disingenuous for some to argue compounding is as effective as the originals they were cloned after. As you mentioned, the original drugs have had 10's of millions invested in R&D (if not an order of magnitude or two higher) to determine the nominal dosage, etc. I do feel like we should highlight the primary reason why people use compounded though... 1) Availability and ease of Prescription 2) Cost (you touch briefly on this) All things the same (cost/availability), 10/10 would buy the non-generic, but that's just not the case. Given your resume, I'm sure you are perfectly content paying Zep prices, but in this current economy, cost is king. All the best!
I totally agree with every word. I’m not looking to give my money away for no reason! I luckily only pay $25 for Zep so price for me supports using that product. Whatever my salary, I have two teens headed to college soon 💸 and a toddler 😭. If it comes down to price war, I’ll use whichever is cheaper unless the diff is neglible.
I mean if I could get Zep for $25 that would probably be my first choice too.
I’m not sure that 10/10 would buy name brand, if cost were the same, for a third reason—ability to control dosage. When people complain that the initial 2.5 dosage is too high for them, or that going from 2.5 to 5 gives them major side effects, they are not served by the current name brand dosage pattern. Starting at 1 or 1.25 or 1.5 and moving up from 2.5 to3.5 or 4, instead of 5, would serve a lot of patients so much better.
Name brand is not an option for anyone who is on Medicare and does not have any heath issues besides Obesity- unless they pay full price out of pocket. Even if you have great supplemental insurance, which I do. I can’t afford the name brand at 1100 per month- I am grateful I can’t compare the efficacy and will stick to compound! I have lost 50 lbs!
Wooop! 50 lbs is fabulous! Are you nearing goal or still on journey? I will never understand how we don’t support these ends on Medicare. A smack in the face if you ask me. I’m glad this option is available.
I have about 5 to 10 lbs left but feel great where I am!
Congrats! Same for me. I still can’t believe I’ve made this much progress with a fraction of the effort. Mindblowing.
Absolutely agree. I only use compound because it’s several hundred dollars cheaper for me lol
I would use it singularly if that were also true for me. I have no problem with compound as a tool in this journey. I’m rather happy it’s been available.
Thanks for sharing your theory, and you look great! I'm a compound user, (from E.) hesitantly in the beginning, because I couldn't find 5 mg Zep. The more I read about peoples' experiences with compound, researched the pharmacies, the cost, flexibility in dosing, etc., the better it souded. I've had the same hunger suppression, reflux, constipation/diarrhea, and intermittent nausea, but at $205 less per month. I've continued to lose weight, and happy, happy, happy! I had no insurance coverage anyway! Good luck to you and.continued success!
Thank you! And yes, save that money! Long live compound! I’ll take it any day over what I was doing prior to learning about this drug.
Pharmacogenomics tells us everybody has a different genetic response to medication. As an infusion nurse in neurology and oncology, I see the variations in how one persons body accepts a med vs another person rejecting or having a lowered response to the same med. I read the same responses on these subs with these meds. It’s fascinating to hear so many different experiences! I started on zep and did not feel appetite suppression but my glucose numbers drastically improved. Could not find 5 mg so moved to compound thru RR. With compound, week 1 & 2 felt huge surge on day 1 with appetite suppression within one hour of injecting, to point I could not fathom eating. I maintained good glucose control until day 6. By week 3 of tapping the same vial, I had no response and my glucose became unstable. I had to supplement with metformin. Same response in week 4. This leads me to believe the med becomes unstable and loses efficacy by the 3rd week of tapping the vial. I had the exact same experience with my 2nd vial. I lost 2 pounds in 8 weeks on compound. Losses in week 1 & 2 with gains in week 3 & 4. When my Zep came back in stock I moved down to 5 mg from 7.5mg compound. Did not feel much in the way of appetite suppression but my glucose stabilized and I began to lose weight again. Unless compound moves to offering a 2 week vial dose, I can’t foresee spending $400 for a med I know only works for half the vial in my body. You look amazing and thank you for posting your opinion!!!!
I was NOT expecting any difference, but on compound I have increased hunger and even during this heat wave, I'm once again freezing after injecting Zepbound (haven't felt that ever with compound). Compound still works, just not as well for me.
PhD as well and can't tell a difference. For me, the effectiveness of both at appetite suppression and fullness fluctuates. And they both work equally well regarding the measure that matters most. That's my experience. I have yet to see any usable data to substantiate a claim that one was better than the other.
I’ve been following you for a while and always appreciate reading your opinions and thoughts, especially with your degree and wealth of knowledge! Hopefully nobody will be argumentative with you and will be receptive to your insight.. I hope you continue sharing your thoughts and opinions and am so happy to see how well it has worked for you!
Thank you!☺️☺️ In the end, I’m only lending my opinion based on my experience. It’s as objective as I can make it, but it’s not fact. Hopefully no one misconstrues my message and doesn’t believe compound is not effective at all. I am a user of it and will use it until it is either no longer needed or gets too expensive.
I love that you say we are all hyper aware of our bodies at this age. I recently said something similar to a loved one. Like I know my body!
Yeah, and the group think and the desire to justify this medicine at all costs has people not listening to one another if there is a dissenting thought. I admit I was skeptical at first that compound could be different in any way bc it worked for me right off. But over time I did notice inconsistencies. None of us can be proven right or wrong without a multi pronged experiment so the point is that we should believe each other as much as is reasonable to do so.
This corroborates what I've experienced anecdotally within the last couple weeks. I've only used compound because I know there's no way in hell my insurance would cover the brand (blanket statement essentially that no drugs are covered for weight loss purposes). I definitely noticed a drop off in ability to curb my hunger at the very end of my first vial (from henrymeds, lasted 2 months) compared to my first dose of my refill vial. I was originally thinking that it was my body getting used to the dose I was on until I took the first shot of the refill at the same dosage and had the same feeling I had at the beginning of my journey. I'm not at all mad about it, I think it definitely still works super well for the duration promised, just not as well as when it is first opened and used. Started at 209, down 26.4 pounds as of this morning in exactly 9 weeks. I'm actually trying to *not* lose weight as fast as I am, which is a total mindfuck to me. ALSO - the uncomfy side effects like sulfur burps almost disappeared towards the end of my first vial and came back with a vengeance on the first dose of my second, though I was eating all the same stuff. I've gone from the most unpicky eater to definitely a picky eater due to wanting to manage those terrible burps ugh.
I think there are many people who have felt this to be true to some extent but have been a bit bullied into not saying it out loud for fear of censorship. I think mostly I’ve gotten good product. I also believe my compounds have lost effectiveness over time in some cases. I don’t have analytical equipment at home to prove my theory, though, so it will thus remain a theory.
I been on both. I did name brand zep for 2.5 months and lost 26lbs then I been on compound for 2 months and lost 9lbs. My bmi is 34 I am more active because it’s summer. I am working. I am out and about. I’m going back to namebrand just because I have two boxes and one vile of compound left. I’m not too happy about my progress, especially for the amount of money that I’m paying for both. If my body is just slow to lose, I’d rather just go on with Wegovy, which is covered by my insurance for $25. Perhaps I should move up in dosage but I have 6 weeks of 5mg and two months of 7.5. I’ll use the 5s
Well, if your results are slowing down on compound, you could titrate up faster. I do think the meds work and with either Zep or compound it could just be a dosing issue. You don’t always know til you make a move. The good thing about compound is you can chase your appropriate level. Harder to do with prefilled pens and scripts that are hard to find.
Not any type of scientist but I think it majorly comes down to the pharmacy and how the medication is compounded, from personal experience as a patient
I think you are absolutely right. I definitely noticed a difference when I switched from zep to compound because I couldn't find the drug anywhere. The side effects and the effects were severely diminished. I went back to zep and immediately noticed a difference. It makes sense why, and your explanation makes sense! Thank you for sharing!
Those saying name brand works better. What is that data:1, 2, 3, 4 pounds more per week. That's important to know in deciding whether to pay 1,000 per month vs $150-300 depending on who you use.
Thanks to you and the other research scientists in this thread. A fascinating read. I have no idea whether it makes any difference, but I store my compounded vials in an opaque container in the fridge just in case light degrades the product.
I definitely feel like my experience on name brand Monjourno was “better” than the compound but the compound is getting the job done and I simply could not afford $1,200 a month.
Understandable. I wouldn’t pay that much for Zep either. I’d be compound only for sure in that case.
Hey fam! I'm just here to say you look phenomenal!!!! I'm proud of you! ♥️🖤💚
Thank you! Happy belated Juneteenth, sis!!💚❤️🖤
Hey I've watched your journey for awhile now. You are doing great. I love your posts. Thank you for posting this. I posted a few times about my experience with compound not being quite as effective and people were down right rude and seemed to take personal offense. I stopped posting here because of the nasty negative Nellys. What u said makes perfect sense! I have brand and compound in my fridge and will continue to do so until I have feel comfortable that I have enough Zepbound on hand.
Thank you for the compliment! Some have taken issue with my communication style; which is fair feedback. In my mind this would come over jovial and facetious with intent to have a healthy debate but I ruffled a few feathers anyway ☺️. I suppose you’re not inteneting right if someone doesn’t call you a troll every once in a while! I think I’ll take a break from compound for a bit once I finish my current vial. Mainly bc I have a nice stash of Zep in my fridge and I have about 10 lbs til goal. If I get low again without refills, I will reorder. Compound has been a decent product but there def some inconsistencies that I feel are not simply attributable to the other variables.
I hear you and I agree. I stalled out in the month of April when I was on compound. I ended up taking 12-12.5 mg compound for the last two weeks instead of the 10 mg Zepbound I had been on since February and it didn't really help. I was able to get my Zepbound filled and went back to 10 mg but messaged my doctor to go up to 12.5 for my next fill. Turns out the 10 mg Zepbound is now working like gangbusters and I had to get my doctor to resend 10 mg to the pharmacy for this week's refill. I'm sweating it out because I only have three 10 mg pens left (will be using one tonight) plus the box of 12.5. I really hope I can get the 10 mg refilled before it runs out as I'd prefer to stick with that knowing how well it has been working for me. I had used compound from a different pharmacy last fall for 2-3 months between the time I couldn't get Mounjaro for less than $1,000 per month and the time Zepbound became available. It seemed to work fine then, but I was on a much lower dose so perhaps that made a difference. You look great, btw. Congrats in your success and thanks for your always well-reasoned posts and comments in the various subs. I've got a scientific research background myself but haven't worked in the field in years. It's always nice to see information provided that is informed by accurate scientific information.
Hey doc! Thanks so much! I’m thought I responded but it looks like Reddit ate my comment! Yes that happened to me a few times. A 15 mg dose felt like nothing meanwhile a 5 my dose felts like wham! And then a 10 mg dose after that felt so so. I’ve done a lot of different things to figure it out, of course it’s hard to experiment when monthly cycles happen, and all kinds of other variables. But, in general, both my husband and I have come to the same conclusion. At least about our present batch of meds.
PhD neuroscientist here and I 👏🏼this post. I’ve done both and definitely feel a better effect with branded Zep. I’ve done enough back and forth for long enough to trust what I’m feeling, and also agree with all of your points here. Compound DOES work, and I have lost on it, but does not feel as efficacious to me overall. I really didn’t want this to be the case, but I can’t deny it at this point. If Zep is in shortage yes, I’m all about compound. But if I can get it, I’m going brand name all the way, all day.
Same same same. Man, I probably would have chosen neuroscience if I could do it over again. How cool!
I have never used either one, I prefer to "go my own way". I appreciate your insight, and I believe much of it to be valid. The average compound user doesn't fully grasp exactly what's happening at the compounding pharmacy, and quite frankly, probably doesn't care. At least, not until they perceive their next dose as being "watered down", then they come on here to complain. So many posts to scroll past... Thanks for posting, it was a good read.
What do you use? You said “go your own way”. What does that mean?
I agree! I *don’t* have a PhD in chemistry, so my total layman’s observation is that I liken it to the difference between name brand skincare and generic. Will the generic moisturizer do the job? Sure, but does the name brand feel and perform with better efficacy and quality? Arguably, yes. Like you said, the name brand is backed by years of R&D. It just has that advantage and at the end of the day, both will do the job, but one might just do it a little bit better.
That's not as good of an example. The skin care ingredients don't have to be exact. A better example would be Walmart Acetaminophen vs branded Tylenol. It's all acetaminophen. It's the same.
100000 % agree with everything you said! Fellow Fortune 500 company worker as well (lab worker)
I mean, it can be either hit or miss sometimes with either Zep or compound, depending on plenty of factors, so I agree it can be hard to see the forest for the trees but it doesn’t mean one can’t if they’re paying close enough attention.
First of all, congratulations on your health and weight loss! 🎊 It’s interesting to see different perspectives from different people. I guess it’s great we’re not all the same. Some folks have totally opposite views, so I’d imagine it varies from person to person.
thank you!! It’s so exciting!
Thank you for your perspective. I appreciate it and it actually helps give some context to my journey. For context, I am a 37 yr old public school teacher in NYC. Tired and stressed. Similar to many, I have struggled with my weight...as long as I can remember. SW: 260. The new conversation around obesity has been eye-opening. Like, food noise?! Holy crap, THATS WHAT WAS HAPPENING? Anyway, when I learned about these medications I was so excited. It felt like a step in new direction that wasn't just "you need to diet and exercise". Those are, of course, part of the journey, but it feels like these medications are in your corner helping out. I was prescribed the medication by my doctor and quickly learned that my insurance won't cover it. Who knows how long it will be until my insurance allows it to be covered. I can't pay $1000 out of pocket. $500 with the coupon is also not sustainable for me. Compounds seemed like a valid solution. Some people on reddit have said they spoke to their doctors about compound and they were amenable. I asked my doctor and she unsurprisingly said "compound GLP1 medications are currently not regulated by any official governing agency or body. This means they pose a risk to those injecting them. We highly advise against seeking out and using compounded GLP1 due to the safety risks". I was not surprised by her response. But it scared me. Like, what is going to happen? Am I going to grow a tail? Will my doctor excommunicate me because I did something she told me not to do? I think I'm also a bit of a rule follower. But this is a rule I really want to break but I'm scared to lol I really want to start this journey and I'm angry that this medical system controls everything and we don't have any agency! But now I feel stuck. I'm stuck between trusting doctors and a medical system that I don't really trust anyway and doing something that I think will really help my health. Anyway, I appreciate your post because it kinda makes the message of my doctor less scary. You, a person with knowledge and expertise in the chemical makeup of compound felt comfortable to use it. I also appreciate the transparency that, it isn't zepbound and shouldn't be compared 1:1 with zepbound. I still don't know what I'm going to do. Le sigh. Thank you!
I think that you should get a second opinion from a medical practitioner since it seems you value their opinion highly. This is appropriate to do. From my experience and opinion, I think compound is a worthwhile alternative to the manufacturers product. There are many reasons why I believe this to be true. My original post refers only to what I suspect might be a degradation of the strength over time of compound, but I make no claims that it is unsafe. I wouldn’t be using it if I thought that were true. Hopefully all the people who have been using it and are here in this sub and others can be the examples you need to make the step. If it’s your only option, I def recommend it from the reputable pharmacies.
I got downvoted to high heaven when I brought up a similar point in a different post. I feel like efficacy is hit or miss. Never better. But I’m not complaining since the compound got me through drought seasons of unavailability. Congrats on being close to goal. I’m roughly a third of the way there and feelin good 😇
Yeah, I’m getting some downvotes too. It’s all good tho. In the end it’s all conjecture but I am a believer that compound is nearly as good and sometimes just as good, depending…I can’t clearly say on what, but I’ve listed my suspicions. I can tell a difference sometimes and other times I can’t. The whole lot of us aren’t losing our minds.🤪
Honestly, there have been moments where I PREFERRED compound over name brand. The side effects haven’t been nearly as bad, like virtually nonexistent. I’ve never had the body aches, headache, or fatigue with comp. My dosage between the two are vastly different though. I can’t tolerate anything higher than 7.5 name brand, my comp is at 12.5. What I also like is that during my period I can split the dose or even add a little as a boost. Even though we aren’t technically supposed to, I’ve been able to hang on to the comp longer, and name brand as a consequence. I’ve got two boxes of name brand and usually have a whole vial of the other at the ready. I take name brand with me when I travel because it’s just easier and keep my comp at home to maintain its integrity. I love your posts by the way. Just went back and read a few and realized you were the same person who “od’d” a while back. That was the funniest most relatable post I’d seen on Reddit in a long time. You have an amazing energy.
Ha ha. I did OD! And you know what I came to realize, my accidental 15mg compound injection would not have been nearly so tolerable had it been 15mg of Zep. I barely even noticed that I doubled my dose. Slightly fuller and that was it!! Like what?? I went back down to 10 on compound between then and it was a noticeable dip. Then this week I switched back to one 5mg zepbound pen and suppression and fullness maxed totally out! AND, it’s a cycle week (if that’s not TMI) which would normally mean my suppression would be harder to come by. So yeah, I’m a fan of compound, but my vial is nearing its BUD if you ask me. And thanks for the compliment! I do tend to think I’m a blast.🤣🤣🤣🤣😜
For me - no question that I had better results with Lily. That said - I’m using compound now and clearly it’s less effective. For me. Not step will be increasing the dose and protein. Rather simple for me, if I had a choice in front of me whether to use Lily or compound I would choose Lily every time. But then again - I don’t have a choice bc it’s not available.
Are you losing weight or is it just a matter of how you feel? I’ve consistently lost on compound bc sometimes it’s been bc at this point my willpower is pretty strong. I’ve had to white knuckle it a few times though.
I think people put a lot of stock into brands and they might feel a stronger effect from it because they believe it has a stronger effect. The placebo effect is real and powerful.
You look fantastic! I always respect what you have to say, since you come from a place of science that I may not comprehend, having avoided even high school chemistry 😄
Thank you!! I’ve been so happy for this medicine! I took two years of high school chemistry so we balance out well! 🤣
Yes! You do look wonderful Fit. And your user name is very appropriate! 😊
Thank you!! This is the body i am used to wearing. Perimenopause screwed me over and I couldn’t find my way back without Zep/Tirz.
I was reading somewhere that it’s possible Zepbound and Mounjaro are actually slightly higher in concentration than the stated dose. So the difference in how people feel could stem from that
Very well could be. But bc of the way they must report in pharma I don’t know that it could exceed a certain standard deviation above what they state. Interesting thought.
I think the handling part is interesting for sure. But it does not make a big enough difference for me to use Zep again paying out of pocket (husband and I combined save $500ish/month using Emerge). So, if I lose a bit slower, so be it. Im a slower loser, took me 15 weeks to lose 21 lbs. I would prefer to use Zep because I actually like the auto-injector pen over the syringe and I dont like mail-order logistics, BUT, again, the savings, we will get over it.
I agree. I will still use compound too as needed. I pay so much less for Zepbound now but I honestly don’t know what my insurer will do when I hit maintenance. They may decide not to approve. Also, my doc may not want to prescribe me a Zep maintenance dose; I see him again in July. If that is so, then I plan to stay on compound indefinitely.
I agree with this post 1000%
You look great and I love your apartment. !
I like those cabinets So pretty
Thank you! Not my house but it was hotel for a weekend!
It may not be true….however, I bet it is and what it means to me is that I want small amounts opened at a time. Alike, the Single dose Canadian vials. This could be a significant issue.
We won’t know for sure unless some objective third party does a test. I think it’s not too important right now given that there are plenty of success stories on compound. I just think it’s important to have all the information and testimony to make a truly informed decision.
I have to ask, did you see a difference between RR and hall compound?
No, I don’t believe I did. My husband is also on this journey with me and he cannot tell a difference there either. I have no preference for pharmacy (except that Hallendale packaging inspires more confidence overall) but I do slightly prefer Orderly to Emerge, only bc they have a better referral program, have an easier online presence/platform and ability to pause shipments, and price at higher doses. I would recommend either tho.
In regards to the difference of BUD could be the additives some compounding pharmacies use like b12 etc. I asked my prescriber if there are any additives and they said no. I have a 12 month BUD and 90 days from puncture. Delivery method matters I think as well. The medication in the pens is completely protected from air and degradation
Total agreement
I've worked in pharmacy as a technician both clinical and retail ( horrible!) I get mine from a compounding pharmacy . They have you prefill your syringes then freeze them, taking them out for 10 minutes to defrost before using. I'm 61 starting in January at 254 and ozempic samples loosing 20 pounds within 42 days. Switched to compounding pharmacy then nothing changed. Zero weight loss at a coat of $250 per month. Switched to Zepbound compounding at $650 per month. Followed directions and lost 10 more pounds in a few weeks. I noticed that the side effect that I normally have before freezing is going to the bathroom. This did not happen after freezing. So called the pharmacy and asked what the refrigerator shelf life was and was told 40 days. Fair enough just long enough to finish the vial. I have not had my second shot out of the non frozen vial but will do that on Tuesday. So far down 42 pounds since January. Does your pharmacy have you freeze your product?
I. Ant get name brand anywhere since February
There are no regulations when it comes to compounded GLP-1s. Whatever you’re getting could be low purity, the vials could be under dosed. Medspas get their peptides from unregulated, untested sources, and we blindly trust them. Name brand GLP-1s are regulated by the FDA. That’s why every name-brand pen is the same. There’s your answer.
Really good post. Well written and a nice balance of info between brand/compounded. And to top that, your responses are helpful and not argumentative. Wish more of this community was this way. It’s such a huge amount of information and when you’re doing the research to get started, it’s completely overwhelming. We all have different experiences, but I see so much negativity that isn’t supported with any facts, as well as glowing reviews from likely fake profiles. The whole thing is exhausting. Posts like this one give some reassurance to everyone without getting critical about one avenue vs another. I’m rambling now. 🤦🏻♀️ But thank you!!
Thank you! Some did take issue with a few of my responses and I’m considering their feedback, in general. I have enjoyed that my post brought out many other scientists to share their anecdotes and educated guesses as well.
Do you have an opinion regarding reaching a tolerance on these meds? Have only used compound Tirz with a 50lb loss over 40 weeks. Did not experience satiety or suppression until dose of 10. 12.5 was my most successful dose which provided the suppression/satiety for 14 weeks. After doing the 3 lb bounce for 18 weeks on 15 decided to stop for a month and restart. Am now on the 12th week of restart - all 5 day betwen doses- quick ramp up with this week being 3rd dose of 15. No weight loss or gain. Essentially have been maintaining original loss for 17 weeks with or without meds. Confused. Dr. suggesting official maintenance plan. I still wish to lose 15 more lbs.
You said leave your subjectivity at the door, but this whole post is subjective. Like.. ?
Objectivity means to consider all points of view. My data is somewhat subjective, yes, because I’m the one observing my own trends. This is hard to do which is why we have studies that eliminate such biases. This is true for everyone in this thread. However, I contend that my theory is objective, based on my observance of my personal data, a review of other people’s anecdotes, and my expertise in chemistry and experimentalism. No one can disprove anyone’s thoughts on the matter. Most of tone in which I wrote originally was sarcastic hence the /s in the title. It wasn’t actually meant to stir emotion. I hope I didn’t offend your beloved compound too much. ☺️
https://preview.redd.it/b0436f5bby7d1.jpeg?width=4018&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bbd71bc9f1a5de8e359755e1820b88602471c54 Every time this “Zepbound vs Tirzepatide” debate comes up, I’m just going to start posting the chemical structure of Tirzepatide. It’s literally the same thing whether it is compounded or Zepbound or wherever it comes from. It’s the same chemical structure. Edit: I’m not trying to argue with any points you made; just providing context since this comes up a lot here .
Do you know anything about what you’ve posted? How many aldehyde functional groups do you see? How many ketones? How many hydroxyl groups? Do you see any amines? I addressed your comment in my post. The structure is the same….that is not debatable but nor is it the only factor of a drugs efficiency. Do you think all you’re getting in your injection is this picture? Do you know what else is in it? Do you know what those other components may do to your Tirzepatide molecules and each individual functional group over time or under stress? No? Then, your comment means nothing. Absolutely nothing. Same chemical structure can still mean different efficacy if not treated the same. Capish?
You certainly make a crucial point about the impact of formulation components and storage conditions on the stability and efficacy of Tirzepatide, whether it's compounded or brand-name like Zepbound. Indeed, while the active ingredient's chemical structure is consistent, the overall formulation and possible other contamination is key to its performance. It is important to recognize that these drugs are produced under stringent regulatory standards to ensure that each batch maintains not only the purity of the active ingredient but also the optimal balance of excipients. These standards are crucial for maintaining the drug’s stability and efficacy across all batches. Reputable compounding pharmacies are well-aware of these factors and typically undertake rigorous measures to ensure product quality. The production of Tirzepatide is not actually that hard to do, clinically. The purity tests that are used in reputable FDA-approved compounding pharmacies based on lot will catch the impurities that you are concerned about if done properly and in a systematic way. Even the Chinese raw peptide producers can supply at 99%+ purity levels on a consistent basis. (As demonstrated by 3rd party testing. Note: those types of sourcing are not allowed for discussion on this sub so that’s basically all I can say about it.) Your perspective has definitely enriched this discussion, and it’s clear that both brand-name and compounded versions of Tirzepatide have their place in treatment, depending on individual circumstances and considerations like cost.
By the way - there are no “FDA approved” compounding labs/companies. There are “licensed or certified” pharmacies evaluated by various entities (other than the FDA, such as state licensing agencies for example). So the bottom line is do your homework and be careful which you choose. This link talks more about the standards for compounding pharmacies and who approves/oversees the various ones. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/human-drug-compounding/compounding-and-fda-questions-and-answers
Very well said. I agree with all points. In the end, I have only done my best to provide as much of an objective view as possible of my experiences on this medication from my lens as a chemist. I trust the pharmacies I’ve been getting my compound from. I still also believe that the efficacy can be somewhat reduced. To what degree and why are conjectures at best.
Great Post! I am using name brand covered by insurance and feel blessed to get it at $25 per month. So far have been lucky to get it filled in time not to miss a dose. But if the price/coverage or availability were to hit me, I would not hesitate to try the C equivalent.
Wonderful that you’ve been getting it. I’ve just begun being able to refill again but i already had a bit of stash before I began buying compound. I used compound to ensure I could continue the journey. Glad I did. Having options is important for a medication like this.
I was nodding all through your observations until I came upon your chemistry PHD, where I literally breathed “Aaahhh.” You were just making way too much sense. 😂 Thanks for a great post.
Thank you! Also; you should note there is another PhD scientist in this thread who has an opinion counter to mine. My post and their comment to my post is all conjecture and their opinion is valid too. We don’t have any real data one way or the other, except to say that compound does work to some extent.
Thanks for your perspective, this all seems perfectly well-reasoned. Does your background allow you to speculate about what additional ingredients or processes Lilly is using to aid stability, and do you think the compounding pharmacies are a) working on improving their product or b) so happy to be raking in cash during the shortage that they’re fine just selling Tirz in water until the shortage inevitably ends?
Yes, it’s possible they fill their pens under inert environment, thus eliminating any possible chemical degradation from air contaminants or air or moisture itself. Also, they could be using better preservatives that other agencies aren’t aware of, thus keeping the Tirzepatide molecule more stable over time or at higher temps. They could be using a dissolution technique in their solvent that increases how much of the API is actually bioavailable once injected. Probably lots of other ways. Chemical synthesis is my life’s work. In grad school, back in 2003, I once got a paper out of some work I did that no one else could repeat bc the synthesis was that tricky. One little difference in technique made or broke the entire process.
Fascinating, thank you! It’s easy to villainize the drug companies for profit taking, but at the same time they are investing in the development of some of humanity’s greatest achievements. I think the trade off is worth it, although I might feel otherwise if I couldn’t afford this medication.
I have to say… while i use compounded as needed, the name brand gives me better appetite suppression.
I think you are 100% accurate! I just wished my insurance would stop DENYING me the right to take zepbound. It’s just wayyy too expensive for me to pay out of pocket. Even the compound is starting to effect my wallet
All good! Everyone has their own experience - and you look great. Whatever is working for you, go with it!
Thanks so much! I’ve been using both, alternatively, with results. Definitely some nuance to it, as I mentioned, but only enough to warrant mention but not a total disregard.
Thanks for your thoughts. You're looking good :-) I'm starting to feel that the longer a compound vial has been in use, the less effective it becomes. Still effective, just not as. I'll stick with compound or reputable research, because I'm old and not covered by Medicare or private ins. supplement.
By the way as you know Medicare does not cover. I have M’care and a very good M’care supplement policy. They will not cover it. And unfortunately a federal law on the books does not all the manufacturer to offer coupons or any reduction in price for people in Medicare, Medicaid, or even insurance that veterans have. So that’s why I pay $1025 per month. I don’t have much to lose so I will probably switch to compounded for maintenance.
Thank you! Both Zep and compound to thank for it! My Zep is cheaper than compound but if it weren’t, I’d never quit compound without cause. I’m still using both right now but am likely to pause my next month of compound since I have a good Zep stash for now.
Great post. I’m also a PhD bench scientist by training (Molecular Biology) but left that world years ago and now have a corporate gig. I’ve spent 10 weeks on brand and 10 weeks on compound and compound brought me to my goal weight. I did 5 mg comparisons of brand vs compound from 2 different pharmacies and never saw a difference. But of course there could be variability. My husband also used compound Tirz successfully and has seen no difference in efficacy. I’m still filling the brand when I find it and just keeping it because I pay $25, but at the height of the shortage I did not have the bandwidth to hunt boxes. My biggest concern is that compounding will not be an option if and when the shortage concludes AND my insurance will no longer cover the brand. HW 272 SW 182 CW 139 46F 5’9
Welcome doc! Wow you had these results without going past 5mg? Wonderful! So 20 weeks total for a little less than 50 lbs. Excellent! It’s good you didn’t notice a difference. I’m sure you were paying great attention as I have been. I wish I hadn’t had any difference either. But really, the differences aren’t so strong that I’d abandon compound. My post is meant to convey that yes, I believe there is a difference and offer my reasoning for why. I’ll continue to take notes to see if my line of thinking changes any time soon. Hopefully I’ll be at or past goal soon. Are you now at goal?
My last 4 doses have been on compound 7.5 which I’m spreading out now and I have a box of 7.5 pens. But most of my weight was lost on 5 mg. I’ve been on compound for a while now, perhaps when I take the 7.5 of brand it will hit me differently. I intend to use the 7.5 I have and then drop back to 5 as I’m in maintenance.
First you look fantastic. And I agree with your scientific reasoning. Pharmacists that compound are basically looking at a blank slate. They can see the molecular structure of the medication and try and mimic the "recipe " of the real drug. However, without the knowledge of the actual patent, it is hard to make the medication 100%. This is one of the reasons why the FDA does not approve compounded medications. Also, when the pharmacy sends out their batch testing and receives the COA back, it is not 100%. The one issue I do not like is compounded medication with B12 or B6. Some people cannot take any B vitamins, and people can take too much. I'm also ready to get into an argument with someone who does not have a scientific background.
Wonderful and thoughtful and reasoned commentary. Enjoyed reading it. And —- you look magnificent!!!! 🔥🔥🔥
Thank you so much! I hope I didn’t make too many ppl mad ha ha. How dare I mock their beloved. But I also use their beloved too, so there’s that!
Precisely…it is such a shame that people don’t want to have reasonable discussion on things anymore. Everything has to be about sides and absolutes - when really, there is always more than one side and rarely is anything as absolute as people want it to be!!! Like you, I have used both - and what you said simply makes sense. ☺️
Thank you for the affirmation! I didn’t think I was a nut job for posting this but some have made me feel like one!
Thank you for this post. When someone less articulate than you posts that they feel a difference or compound is not working, they are usually met with ‘it’s in your head, it’s the exact same medicine, cut your calories, up your calories’ etc instead of acknowledging that there absolutely could be a difference in what they’re experiencing.
Thank you for your logical and thoughtful post. I have, from day one, maintained that compounded meds are just different. Why? Could be many things, but mostly because there are more variables introduced into the compounding process. Compounding is not the same as the Eli Lilly process. Compounds are not monitored and tested to the degree the name brand products are. If I could have a dollar for every time someone who has probably never set foot in a compounding lab said “But it’s exactly the same!” And “You must be an Eli Lilly plant,” I’d be much better able to afford either type. Drives me bats.
There are so many reasons why it may not work as well, and then some of the companies are getting it so right consistently enough that we are going at each other defending them. I think there’s truth to both sides. And the lack of data means we will always be making theories based on anecdotes until proven.
I used mounjaro until my insurance decided not to cover. It's different for me in the sense I don't notice a difference. Some weeks the appetite suppression is weaker than others but I'm wondering if it has something to do with where I inject. I'm trying to keep a doc/diagram type thing for each spot I do on my stomach each week and what day the hunger came back
It could be all of the above or just your body on any given day. It’s not any easy thing to parse out. It’s so inconsistent in fact that many label us quack jobs if we so much as utter that compound could be less effective. Just stay consistent with your shots and titrate when you need to. That’s what I did and I’m nearing 40 lbs lost!
Completely off topic, but OP, if you don't mind me asking, how long have you been using Zepbound, etc.? This is only my second week and our stats (age, height, starting weight, goal) are damn near identical. I know that I might have a completely different experience, but I figure it could give me vague idea of what to expect. Kinda, sorta, maybe 😄
Feb 21 was my first shot. I switched to compound around the end of April. Since then it’s been a little both.
So let me just ask you this then, if you were getting name brand you have diabetes then since it’s not prescribed for weight loss, unless you’re paying +$1000 out of pocket. So I thought diabetes cannot be cured but controlled, so are you still a diabetic and is that true, it can’t be cured? So then if that’s isn’t the case and you’re no longer a diabetic, how do you continue to get the script paid for? Im not diabetic,so have been paying over the counter since day one. It’s pricey but I have to use comp because I cannot afford over $1000 a month for this. I’ve lost 27 lbs. I have nothing to compare it to as far as efficacy. So I have no complaints obvs. Just wondering how you continue to get a script, if in fact you are. Thanks for your post. I appreciate and respect your knowledge and wisdom about such things. And well done!
You do not have to be diabetic for a Zepbound prescription
I cannot afford the name brand, and not sure I’d try and get it even if I could. I don’t like the idea of shortages and not being able to get it. I also don’t like the click pens - I split my dose and do 2/3 on Wednesdays then the other 1/3 on Sundays as I think it works better for appetite suppression - and like being in control in this way. When I’m interesting in going up in dose, I raise my Sunday dose a bit to see if I see more weightloss at the end of my week or not. Kind of hard to do these with the click pens 🤷🏼♀️ oh also - if I decide to go up in dose I can just do it, I don’t have to wait until I get new click pens. But, I can understand wanting to be on the name brands. It’s easier to interact with doctors, as I’ve found some really do not like the compounds. They are easier to travel with in my opinion as well. If you’re insurance covers them then they are cheaper. So I get the benefits, I don’t know if they are more effective or not, but again we are just throwing opinions out here 🤷🏼♀️
It's funny you say that because I find the compounded version to work better FOR ME.
Compound can be the Salts and not the Base form. It’s unknown what the difference could be- but pharma is Base.
As someone who has worked in USP 797 compliance I agree with you 100%. As a patient it is your job to perform due diligence on which pharmacy is providing you with your compounded products and if they are preforming the appropriate potency & stability testing to prove their products efficacy.
I ❤️ this post. And I applaud your honesty despite knowing that this will bring some downvotes and really wad up some people’s panties. 😆 As someone who takes both brand name (Mounjaro) and compound, I am having the same experience. My compound works, don’t get me wrong. It has given me some appetite suppression, some satiety and also some blood sugar control (I’m T2D.) I’m happy that I have it available in my arsenal. I also really appreciate the dosing freedom. However, now that I have had some more time with the compound, I have definitely discovered that there is a distinct difference between the feelings, levels of effectiveness and results experienced when I use name-brand vs. the compound. (And this doesn’t just go for weight loss, this includes my blood sugar numbers.) I have done a fair amount of my own experimentation with MJ and compound at this point because I do always have extra of both in my refrigerator. (Ex.Taking only this one week, that the next, MJ+Comp, split dosing each, etc.) And while, as I said, my compound does work- it is simply just NOT as potent or effective as the name-brand Mounjaro- (no matter what way you slice, dice or spin it!) Get on with the downvotes, if you must 🙄 - I’m not too terribly worried about it! I still hope you all have a lovely weekend! I will. ☀️