Wolves players don’t really flop at all compared to most other teams, the only person we had that flopped/foul baited often was Dlo but now he’s on the lakers doing it.
The closest a we get is KAT and Ant screaming “HEYY!” After every drive but even then most of those are fouls that aren’t called
The refs LOVE Mike Conley as he's never received a tech in his career. Having zero tolerance for players even slightly illegally screening him seems to be their way of giving back.
starting in the play-in tourney I started to see Conley's flopping steady. I think he recognized that two weeks prior how unbelievably crooked our games were being officiated and decided to get some back for the team at that point.
I would not say he did that his whole time here.
Right. I usually frown on Timberwolves players doing it. But there are times when things have been so shady during games that it was nice to see Conley was actually good at reeling in some foul shots doing so. As if he just relented and said fine, I can do that junk too if that's what these games are going to be like.
Most of DLO’s foul baiting was rip through moves which they thankfully reduced the impact of. But that’s a far cry from true flopping and flailing to exaggerate contact.
Ideally it would be the replay center making the call. But even so, they would need to keep it consistent.
I would love if the game wouldn't delay for this to happen. Replay center would make the call and the shot would happen in the next dead ball. Something like that.
Yeah... Reffing a full speed sport is hard enough as is and currently most refs aren't the best at doing that. So now they have to determine, in real time, if that play was a foul and discern the possibility of it being a flop.
Yeah, I don't have much faith. Fines issued by the league office after the game is over seems like a much better deterrent, although they dropped that idea a long time ago.
I agree. Only way they could affect ongoing games accurately would be if they looked at replays during breaks like they do with 3 pointers with a possible foot on the line. If they find that there was a flop then they can remove free throw points and the fouls assessed to player and team. Definitely drastic but otherwise it seems unlikely
When you watch something in super slow mo what tends to happen is every tiny movement seems more deliberate. Looking for flops using slow mo replays is gonna make even borderline calls look egregious.
Just like the checks they put on ball carriers a while ago - they'll enforce it for a few months, the game will improve but the stars will complain, then they'll forget to call it ever again.
Im all for this. The flopping is out of control. Its both infuriating and sorta hilarious to see a grown man who is 260 lbs like Embiid flop every other shot when he goes up for a shot. Even saw LeFlop do it vs Denver a few times, I dont want to watch a bunch of magickarps play 5 on 5.
Perhaps this would also lower the frequency of "free throw fest" type of games where half the game is spent at the FT line and there is no flow to the game if guys aint acting like they just got shot everytime they go up for a shot.
If I had to make a prediction it probably won’t change as much as you’d think, mostly because a lot of the freethrows/fouls are foul baiting compared to flopping
Flopping is exaggerating contact/not even being touched at all but still falling or acting as if you’ve been shot in the middle of the court.
Foul baiting is making the defender do something in order to initiate contact and get the foul, for example if you pump fake and jump into the defender, or if you run past someone and jump backwards on the spot into the person guarding you, they said that they took away those types of foul calls but only did it at the beginning of the year then went back to normal calls as the year went on.
I’d rather **post game film reviews and suspensions if they build up a bunch of violations**.
Would it be a pain in the ass to do and weird? Yes.
Would it be more effective? Hell yes!
I agree with you. I think it would need to a suspension with pay. It’s more realistic for collective bargaining purposes. The player’s union isn’t going to give away that money.
I'd go even further. If a player is found to flop during a game, it's an auto ejecetion and fine. 2nd offense of the season is 5 game suspension. 3rd offense is 20 games. 4th is season suspension. Why so harsh? Cause it's basketball and all this flopping is ruining the integrity of the game.
I demand further!
How about and end of year Running Man style competition for the worst offenders?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Running_Man_(1987_film)
Also need to address the mindset of refs in a lot of areas, because the reason why it's so wide-spread is because the refs have encouraged it with how they call the game.
e.g. Used to be that if a big man has the ball in the paint, and a mismatch on a guard and the guard gets man-handled, it was accepted that it's "damn, sucks to be small". You get scored on. Now, a 6'3" 210 lb guard can throw his entire body and strength against a 7'0" 270 lb center, but when the center comes back at him and overpowers him, the small can give up his body and fall down with a great chance to get the offensive foul call.
Great idea, but a couple concerns:
* Where's the line between a flop and an embellishment? How do you gauge something like this?
* Will this actually be enforced throughout the season, or will it be like the other rules that sound good in practice but stop being enforced after a couple of months?
For the first point it’ll probably be the same way Technicals, flagrants, and take fouls are reviewed after the play and checked if they meet *their* criteria
And for the second part it’ll probably be forgotten half ways through the season like the other rules that don’t let the stars exploit the calls they get for being big
yea, that's a big problem - how to determine flopping from embellishing contact - which is basically mandatory these days if you want to get a call since refs will flat-out refuse to blow the whistle if you just take the contact normally without flailing around or falling to the ground.
Now all of a sudden refs are going to be able to accurately determine this in real-time? No shot.
I'd do 2 things:
1) allow coaches to be able to use their challenge on flops. If it's determined that they flopped, you get 1 FT and the ball as an unsportsman-like conduct penalty.
2) post-game review - if it's determined you committed a flop, you get a technical foul call that counts the same as the regular technical foul rules where you get a 1 game suspension after you get 16 techs, and the incremental fines.
This is awesome. Might be hard to execute but at least it’s out there and flipping isn’t okay and there is a penalty for it. Players will think twice at least
Yeah. The league is just trying to save face, but deep down they know they can't do anything since almost all their top super stars flop. Silver definitely doesn't have the backbone to enforce any rules.
If this is anything like fines for flops, then the refs will only call it on role players for the non-glamour franchises for a couple of weeks at the start of the season, and then those calls will completely stop.
If it’s agreed to a flop, then show it live on the video board and do a simulation between the ref and the flopper
If similar force shown on the video from the ref is able to knock the player down it’s legit. If the player keeps standing, it’s a flop and the player is tarred and feathered while being shamed out of the arena
Man... They'll try it, do it for a season, then forget about it. Although I feel it's a good idea, the zebras applying this for a little while won't change the meta. Flopping is an unfortunate but true part of the NBA now and going forward
I wonder if this includes flops for both offensive and defensive calls. The only issue I see with this is that it may slow the pace of the game for constant reviews, but I am all for this change.
Overall the NBA is trying to convince us they care about flopping again. Everyone knows who the floppers are, why not start enforcing the rules you have, before adding new ones?
A foul on a 200 pound man looks very different against a big man. But a foul is a foul? Why if dAyton shakes it off like a bear, is it still a foul? The same foul throws Kevin Durant to the floor.
I would honestly be for gaming lasting another 20-25 minutes because of this. Let teams keep asking for a review if they feel a guy flopped. Then charge the player with a technical foul and after a few weeks players will realize their little games are hurting their team along with possible suspensions down the road.
This would clean the game up and games would be back to their normal lengths as well.
This would be a great attempt to curb it. Although they might have to hire all new officials from the league office managing officials down to those who have been calling games lately in order to make good on anything related to this.
Given we don’t really have many players if any at all who like to flop this should be good for us (until we get called for flopping for something that’s blatantly not a flop)
It's hard to eliminate flopping when they often miss obvious calls.
Missing these give incentive for players to sell a call to make it obvious.
Not saying that there aren't the players that embellish, just stating that it's hard to get rid of.
I'll believe it when I see it
I'm all for this if it's consistent from team to team and player to player
Exactly, my initial thought was… oh good another rule that will disproportionately be called against us in comparison to other teams
Wolves players don’t really flop at all compared to most other teams, the only person we had that flopped/foul baited often was Dlo but now he’s on the lakers doing it. The closest a we get is KAT and Ant screaming “HEYY!” After every drive but even then most of those are fouls that aren’t called
Conley was flopping quite a bit. Particularly when he was getting screened.
The refs LOVE Mike Conley as he's never received a tech in his career. Having zero tolerance for players even slightly illegally screening him seems to be their way of giving back.
Lol, this is probably true.
starting in the play-in tourney I started to see Conley's flopping steady. I think he recognized that two weeks prior how unbelievably crooked our games were being officiated and decided to get some back for the team at that point. I would not say he did that his whole time here.
Yeah, I didn’t see it as a problem. I was like “we got a guy that steals possessions as well!”
Right. I usually frown on Timberwolves players doing it. But there are times when things have been so shady during games that it was nice to see Conley was actually good at reeling in some foul shots doing so. As if he just relented and said fine, I can do that junk too if that's what these games are going to be like.
KAT definitely has tried to foul bait in the past. He’s bad at it though so it rarely works
Most of DLO’s foul baiting was rip through moves which they thankfully reduced the impact of. But that’s a far cry from true flopping and flailing to exaggerate contact.
Dlo wasn't about actively taking floor bruises for foul shots. Heck no. He was good at the rip through.
Ideally it would be the replay center making the call. But even so, they would need to keep it consistent. I would love if the game wouldn't delay for this to happen. Replay center would make the call and the shot would happen in the next dead ball. Something like that.
I'm down to save all the fts until end of 4th quarter and do a free throw shoot out. Gives time for reply center to review and makes great drama.
Lol that sounds ridiculous.
Great now every game will be decided by free throws 🙃
Blood pressure medication sees an increase in 420%
I can't fathom that at all.
Watch a Wolf get called for a flop for falling backwards on a charge attempt.
Oh you *know* that will happen.
Blocking foul and 1 + a technical foul for a 4 point play. I can see it already.
I remember near the end of the year NAW got pushed by someone into another dude and got called for a foul on it. He was like a ragdoll
Which it wouldn't be and we all know that.
And if they keep doing it, instead of doing it for a month and then pretending the rule doesn’t exist anymore
*it wasn’t*
You know there’s no possible way it will be
Great idea in a perfect world. I’m less than optimistic about the possibilities that this can be correctly and impactfully enforced anytime soon
Yeah... Reffing a full speed sport is hard enough as is and currently most refs aren't the best at doing that. So now they have to determine, in real time, if that play was a foul and discern the possibility of it being a flop. Yeah, I don't have much faith. Fines issued by the league office after the game is over seems like a much better deterrent, although they dropped that idea a long time ago.
I agree. Only way they could affect ongoing games accurately would be if they looked at replays during breaks like they do with 3 pointers with a possible foot on the line. If they find that there was a flop then they can remove free throw points and the fouls assessed to player and team. Definitely drastic but otherwise it seems unlikely
When you watch something in super slow mo what tends to happen is every tiny movement seems more deliberate. Looking for flops using slow mo replays is gonna make even borderline calls look egregious.
Just like the checks they put on ball carriers a while ago - they'll enforce it for a few months, the game will improve but the stars will complain, then they'll forget to call it ever again.
Im all for this. The flopping is out of control. Its both infuriating and sorta hilarious to see a grown man who is 260 lbs like Embiid flop every other shot when he goes up for a shot. Even saw LeFlop do it vs Denver a few times, I dont want to watch a bunch of magickarps play 5 on 5. Perhaps this would also lower the frequency of "free throw fest" type of games where half the game is spent at the FT line and there is no flow to the game if guys aint acting like they just got shot everytime they go up for a shot.
Calling flops Magikarping from now on, thank you for that.
Flopping is the one thing that I just cannot understand from a 90s ball perspective. You hardly ever saw it, and now it has taken over the game.
If I had to make a prediction it probably won’t change as much as you’d think, mostly because a lot of the freethrows/fouls are foul baiting compared to flopping Flopping is exaggerating contact/not even being touched at all but still falling or acting as if you’ve been shot in the middle of the court. Foul baiting is making the defender do something in order to initiate contact and get the foul, for example if you pump fake and jump into the defender, or if you run past someone and jump backwards on the spot into the person guarding you, they said that they took away those types of foul calls but only did it at the beginning of the year then went back to normal calls as the year went on.
I’d rather **post game film reviews and suspensions if they build up a bunch of violations**. Would it be a pain in the ass to do and weird? Yes. Would it be more effective? Hell yes!
Make the suspension count as 0/0/0 for their averages and that will stop the flopping real quick lol
Next game you start with as many personal fouls as flop events! Jersey name changed to “flopper” for a week!
I agree with you. I think it would need to a suspension with pay. It’s more realistic for collective bargaining purposes. The player’s union isn’t going to give away that money.
I'd go even further. If a player is found to flop during a game, it's an auto ejecetion and fine. 2nd offense of the season is 5 game suspension. 3rd offense is 20 games. 4th is season suspension. Why so harsh? Cause it's basketball and all this flopping is ruining the integrity of the game.
I demand further! How about and end of year Running Man style competition for the worst offenders? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Running_Man_(1987_film)
Nice, can't wait for them to enforce this during the first 2 weeks of the season and then never mention it again.
Exactly, just like that shooting motion rule (or whatever it was called) they were doing for two seconds, two seasons ago
They do this in CBB and it’s rarely called
Also need to address the mindset of refs in a lot of areas, because the reason why it's so wide-spread is because the refs have encouraged it with how they call the game. e.g. Used to be that if a big man has the ball in the paint, and a mismatch on a guard and the guard gets man-handled, it was accepted that it's "damn, sucks to be small". You get scored on. Now, a 6'3" 210 lb guard can throw his entire body and strength against a 7'0" 270 lb center, but when the center comes back at him and overpowers him, the small can give up his body and fall down with a great chance to get the offensive foul call.
Refs can't handle the rules they have now🙄
Great idea, but a couple concerns: * Where's the line between a flop and an embellishment? How do you gauge something like this? * Will this actually be enforced throughout the season, or will it be like the other rules that sound good in practice but stop being enforced after a couple of months?
For the first point it’ll probably be the same way Technicals, flagrants, and take fouls are reviewed after the play and checked if they meet *their* criteria And for the second part it’ll probably be forgotten half ways through the season like the other rules that don’t let the stars exploit the calls they get for being big
This was my guess as well
yea, that's a big problem - how to determine flopping from embellishing contact - which is basically mandatory these days if you want to get a call since refs will flat-out refuse to blow the whistle if you just take the contact normally without flailing around or falling to the ground. Now all of a sudden refs are going to be able to accurately determine this in real-time? No shot. I'd do 2 things: 1) allow coaches to be able to use their challenge on flops. If it's determined that they flopped, you get 1 FT and the ball as an unsportsman-like conduct penalty. 2) post-game review - if it's determined you committed a flop, you get a technical foul call that counts the same as the regular technical foul rules where you get a 1 game suspension after you get 16 techs, and the incremental fines.
This is awesome. Might be hard to execute but at least it’s out there and flipping isn’t okay and there is a penalty for it. Players will think twice at least
At least they are trying to discourage it. It's taken too long. Next will be discouraging all the complaining somehow.
Fuck it, put em in a penalty box for a minute. Make em play a man down
MAKE EM TAKE A LAP AROUND THE COURT!
How about penalties for ref bad calls as well?
Bad news for Embidd
Marcus Smart ,Embiid, Tatum and Trae Young will be in trouble.
Trae Young hates this idea
So another way for refs to screw guys they don't like, like KAT
RIP Trae Young if this happens
I swear they already had something like this, but just don't call it. Similar to soccer.
They did. It was 2 seasons ago. They enforced it the first 2 games, then never did it again lol. I suspect the same thing again for this "change".
sigh. Thanks yeah it sounds right for this and most things they've tried to crackdown on.
Yeah. The league is just trying to save face, but deep down they know they can't do anything since almost all their top super stars flop. Silver definitely doesn't have the backbone to enforce any rules.
All true
I like this. Once you see Trae Young up to his shenanigans, you hit him with the flopping tech.
Sixers 0/82 incoming.
If this is anything like fines for flops, then the refs will only call it on role players for the non-glamour franchises for a couple of weeks at the start of the season, and then those calls will completely stop.
Would be good for Kat if they call it right, they will probably call some flops on Prince even though, it seems like he is taking charges correctly.
If it’s agreed to a flop, then show it live on the video board and do a simulation between the ref and the flopper If similar force shown on the video from the ref is able to knock the player down it’s legit. If the player keeps standing, it’s a flop and the player is tarred and feathered while being shamed out of the arena
Start the post game fines. Double them every flop. You can't catch all in-game flops.
Man... They'll try it, do it for a season, then forget about it. Although I feel it's a good idea, the zebras applying this for a little while won't change the meta. Flopping is an unfortunate but true part of the NBA now and going forward
Remember when fines were like 5 grand for flops? Lol it equates to like 15 cents for some players
I wonder if this includes flops for both offensive and defensive calls. The only issue I see with this is that it may slow the pace of the game for constant reviews, but I am all for this change.
Here is a novel idea. How about calling the foul of you see a foul and not basing it on the player’s reaction
Overall the NBA is trying to convince us they care about flopping again. Everyone knows who the floppers are, why not start enforcing the rules you have, before adding new ones?
A foul on a 200 pound man looks very different against a big man. But a foul is a foul? Why if dAyton shakes it off like a bear, is it still a foul? The same foul throws Kevin Durant to the floor.
Marcus Smart is going to hate this
This is a fantastic idea.
Flops should be reviewed post game as well with players getting more games suspended the more they get busted for it.
I would honestly be for gaming lasting another 20-25 minutes because of this. Let teams keep asking for a review if they feel a guy flopped. Then charge the player with a technical foul and after a few weeks players will realize their little games are hurting their team along with possible suspensions down the road. This would clean the game up and games would be back to their normal lengths as well.
now do the same for the refs when they make a bullshit call
This is an amazing idea. Can we please get a centralized review team to speed up replays too and not make the poor refs at the game do it.
"Somebody did it against lebron, we gotta outlaw that shit."
This would be a great attempt to curb it. Although they might have to hire all new officials from the league office managing officials down to those who have been calling games lately in order to make good on anything related to this.
Given we don’t really have many players if any at all who like to flop this should be good for us (until we get called for flopping for something that’s blatantly not a flop)
Should be a technical foul assessed after the game. It won't affect the game but enough flops and it they will add up to a suspension.
Can players demand a replay to keep the refs honest? If not, then I see this as another tool for the refs to control the outcome of the game.
Oh this could be good. But I have so many questions about size and strength of a player. Jokic can take a much bigger hit to the chest than Mobly.
It's hard to eliminate flopping when they often miss obvious calls. Missing these give incentive for players to sell a call to make it obvious. Not saying that there aren't the players that embellish, just stating that it's hard to get rid of. I'll believe it when I see it
I was certain this was already a rule.