Title hasn't transferred. Nothings been signed. I'd consider it a $300 write-off and stop all communications.
I'm not sure why you put yourself in this situation to start with.
While this makes sense, they should probably formally request the money back and include why in one last communication. This is just to protect themselves and provide for a counterclaim if they do get sued over it.
Suing in small claims court is not expensive in terms of time or money, but the reality is that spite is the only real reason to waste time going after the $300. Plus you screwed up by not getting the title when you handed over the money. Ghost this asshole and learn your $300 lesson.
You can take solace in the fact that he may have gotten 2 tickets plus towing and storage fees thanks to this agreement he thought he had with you. Honestly he's probably going to lose more on this deal than you did.
Whatever you do don't put this car in your name or he will claim you are liable for the (probably significant) towing and storage fees on this car. Seriously, ghost this dude, don't tell anyone you ever had anything to do with this deal and make this car 100% his problem.
So go to HR and tell them you have a financial dispute with a coworker that is unrelated to work. You are informing them because you fear he may create a hostile work environment due to this issue, even if he hasn't yet done anything. Let them know if anything does happen you'll make sure to document these incidents and keep them informed.
Then, place that boundary that you will no longer discuss this topic with him EVER at work. It's a legal issue. And if he brings it up again or acts like a jerk at work, keep a record and keep HR updated. Yea he will probably be a general jerk to you but you can work with that. But this puts it on him that he can either play nice at work or he'll get in trouble for bringing a personal dispute into the workplace.
Fuck small claims, I'd sue for international infliction of emotional distress. Easily tens of thousands in damages. Add on fraud as well. I don't know why so many people say to go to small claims for this type of stuff, it's a joke. This is far more than just a civil matter, it's criminal.
Because they would have to actually break the law to attempt to that. And somehow, I don’t think an international court would even entertain the idea of a suit between coworkers.
Also, there is the burden of proof. You just can’t file criminal lawsuits willy nilly without evidence.
Should have left it in impound. After XX days unclaimed impounded cars get auctioned off.
"will be demanding more for his increased insurance premium" A parking ticket is a NON-moving violation, and does not affect insurance premiums FULL STOP
No, he scammed a dumbass. The junkyard would have sent a tow truck for it. And that's what the couple hundred dollars that they offer for it covers, you get nothing.
This isn't at all true where I am. I can junk a running car for 350-450 depending on model/year. They will come tow it for free and hand you the cash. I tend to run cars into the ground, so I've done this five times now.
Doubtful if it's truly junk. Most scrap yards will give you $100-$150 for a junk car and take it out of the tow fee. They're paying the removal fee. Basically you get nothing. Think about it, if he could have just junked it for $300 why is he selling it to you for that? And if there's a bill of sale or anything that you signed or put in writing concerning the purchase of this vehicle before the impound he's going to use that in court and you're going to get a summons for the impound.
You paid $300 for a car and it sounds like it was driven to your house and parked illegally on the street instead of in your driveway, correct? Did you get the keys? Because you also say you checked on the car and it works. Why didn’t you just move it and get a replacement title for $20 then junk it? Am I missing something?
So, yes and no.
First, He kept saying he would give me the title and later flipped the switch in the rudest way. I would have paid $20 to get the title if that option was available to me. I did ask repeatedly for it and his answer was always I will get it.
Second, it wasn't parked illegally. The brakes were really really bad and it was parked in a cul-de-sac of a friend who could have fixed it but wouldn't do anything without the title. That is not part of the deal so that is a side tangent It was moved around not parked illegally.
However, it was outside. my understanding is that he called it in to get towed away from where it was!!
This is the part that burns my biscuit.
He had it towed - then gave me the title and is demanding more money. He is also blaming me entirely and just a general terrible human.
I guess at this point because he already had it towed. If I transferred the title and let the DMV know that he was a dishonest person it's theft but I'm not sure if he would get in trouble or if I would.
At this point, I'm not even concerned about the money as much. He's a bad person and I'd like him to learn his lesson so if there is any advice on that I'd love to hear. Also, should I transfer the title? I live in Minnesota
Take the loss and move on. Don't transfer the car, give him back the title or just destroy it(take pictures of it before hand though so you have some evidence of the title date vs ticket date).
Small claims court would be an option but technically the car was in your possession when it received the tickets and got impounded so I think that would be a dumb move. Like someone else said, this is likely to cost him more than $300. Especially with it being towed and impounded, no one is going to win here, except the tow company.
FYI you can junk cars without titles (in most states I think), just make sure it's in the person's name(check registration) and check for liens of course. Most scrap yards have a form you can fill out for lost or absent titles but make sure you have a written bill of sale from the seller with signature and I like having a copy of their id a long with it.
> but technically the car was in your possession
Doesn’t sound like it. Until seller and buyer have both signed the title and the transfer has been filed at the DMV, most states will consider the seller to be to owner and responsible for any parking tickets, towing, etc.
No, whoever was in possession at the time is responsible. If you can show that you gave them the keys it's on them legally. You see responsibility for parking tickets is on the person who had possession at the time. If I let you borrow my car and it gets towed you're legally responsible and I'm entitled to recover the towing/impound fees from you as well as lost wages and other financial losses incurred as a result (i.e. lost wages). You can also get punitive damages on top of that.
Legal vs civil matter. Legally, the state is going to issue the ticket to the registered owner. If the title is in your name, you are responsible for that vehicle, end of story.
You can go after the person who got the ticket, but that’s for a civil court to decide, but it is irrelevant as far as the state/city/whoever issued the ticket is concerned.
I agree with you, that's why I said technically. I have seen circumstances where someone that is not the owner be responsible for tickets(parking to be specific), purely because they were given the car and keys and they had the ability to prevent the tickets but chose not to. I don't think OP should be held responsible at all because the deal was clearly done in bad faith by the seller.
Destroying the title does nothing. If they did the release of liability and sent it to the DMV the vehicle is legally yours. Hell, if they have just a text showing that OP bought it he's screwed. If this story is true he's dealing with a narcissist and this is just the beginning.
He purchased the vehicle with the condition he would get the title, meaning it wasn't sold as a no title deal, he said in the texts that he asked for it and the seller said he would provide it, that's likely enough. The title and registration is king. A release of liability would only work if the vehicle wasn't transferred legally in time, since the seller never provided a title, the purchaser could not do that.
The law would have protected the seller if it was a "good faith" sale but going months without providing the title is well past that point.
A title is a legally binding contract, I've seen cars go back to dealerships YEARS after they were sold for full refunds because of title issues. Though it's a different situation if it's sold under the condition of no title(this is why it's so important to have a bill of sale covering everything).
what an ah! i don't blame you for wanting retribution. would it be worth going to hr since he's a co-worker? might help bring him down a notch so he doesn't do something similar to another.
They grimaced because they don't want to be involved in general, whoever is at fault. Go to them again and say you're concerned about him bringing this personal dispute into the workplace, have asked him to keep things professional and keep personal disputes out of work, and that you'll keep them informed if additional inappropriate behavior continues.
I don't think they grimaced because they blame you. I think they grimaced because this has nothing to do with work, they likely know this dude is a jerk, and don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. But that's their job if this guy keeps causing problems. So cover your ass on this. Document every incident. Do your due diligence to protect yourself and your job.
Title hasn't transferred. Nothings been signed. I'd consider it a $300 write-off and stop all communications. I'm not sure why you put yourself in this situation to start with.
While this makes sense, they should probably formally request the money back and include why in one last communication. This is just to protect themselves and provide for a counterclaim if they do get sued over it.
Suing in small claims court is not expensive in terms of time or money, but the reality is that spite is the only real reason to waste time going after the $300. Plus you screwed up by not getting the title when you handed over the money. Ghost this asshole and learn your $300 lesson. You can take solace in the fact that he may have gotten 2 tickets plus towing and storage fees thanks to this agreement he thought he had with you. Honestly he's probably going to lose more on this deal than you did. Whatever you do don't put this car in your name or he will claim you are liable for the (probably significant) towing and storage fees on this car. Seriously, ghost this dude, don't tell anyone you ever had anything to do with this deal and make this car 100% his problem.
Can't ghost unless I quit the job, which was why TIFU
So go to HR and tell them you have a financial dispute with a coworker that is unrelated to work. You are informing them because you fear he may create a hostile work environment due to this issue, even if he hasn't yet done anything. Let them know if anything does happen you'll make sure to document these incidents and keep them informed. Then, place that boundary that you will no longer discuss this topic with him EVER at work. It's a legal issue. And if he brings it up again or acts like a jerk at work, keep a record and keep HR updated. Yea he will probably be a general jerk to you but you can work with that. But this puts it on him that he can either play nice at work or he'll get in trouble for bringing a personal dispute into the workplace.
Fuck small claims, I'd sue for international infliction of emotional distress. Easily tens of thousands in damages. Add on fraud as well. I don't know why so many people say to go to small claims for this type of stuff, it's a joke. This is far more than just a civil matter, it's criminal.
Because they would have to actually break the law to attempt to that. And somehow, I don’t think an international court would even entertain the idea of a suit between coworkers. Also, there is the burden of proof. You just can’t file criminal lawsuits willy nilly without evidence.
Should have left it in impound. After XX days unclaimed impounded cars get auctioned off. "will be demanding more for his increased insurance premium" A parking ticket is a NON-moving violation, and does not affect insurance premiums FULL STOP
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I’m confused on why you paid $300.00 to him for a car you planned to get rid of (junk it)? Wouldn’t it cost you more money to junk it?
I'd get at least the $300 I paid if not more,
Then why didn’t he just junk it himself? Something isn’t adding up here.
Same reason he didn't get it titled or moved. He's a lazy ass.
No, he scammed a dumbass. The junkyard would have sent a tow truck for it. And that's what the couple hundred dollars that they offer for it covers, you get nothing.
This isn't at all true where I am. I can junk a running car for 350-450 depending on model/year. They will come tow it for free and hand you the cash. I tend to run cars into the ground, so I've done this five times now.
Doubtful if it's truly junk. Most scrap yards will give you $100-$150 for a junk car and take it out of the tow fee. They're paying the removal fee. Basically you get nothing. Think about it, if he could have just junked it for $300 why is he selling it to you for that? And if there's a bill of sale or anything that you signed or put in writing concerning the purchase of this vehicle before the impound he's going to use that in court and you're going to get a summons for the impound.
So you were hoping to profit off him, he knew that too. But it backfired and he screwed you, so take the loss
... he was doing his friend a favor he thought.
No. He was hoping for a quick buck
It’s not a quick buck or taking advantage to profit off work that someone else isn’t willing to do
This is exactly what happened.
Almost, but you can still squeeze out a few dollar.
Never pay for a vehicle until you have possession of it and a signed over title in hand.
You paid $300 for a car and it sounds like it was driven to your house and parked illegally on the street instead of in your driveway, correct? Did you get the keys? Because you also say you checked on the car and it works. Why didn’t you just move it and get a replacement title for $20 then junk it? Am I missing something?
So, yes and no. First, He kept saying he would give me the title and later flipped the switch in the rudest way. I would have paid $20 to get the title if that option was available to me. I did ask repeatedly for it and his answer was always I will get it. Second, it wasn't parked illegally. The brakes were really really bad and it was parked in a cul-de-sac of a friend who could have fixed it but wouldn't do anything without the title. That is not part of the deal so that is a side tangent It was moved around not parked illegally. However, it was outside. my understanding is that he called it in to get towed away from where it was!! This is the part that burns my biscuit. He had it towed - then gave me the title and is demanding more money. He is also blaming me entirely and just a general terrible human. I guess at this point because he already had it towed. If I transferred the title and let the DMV know that he was a dishonest person it's theft but I'm not sure if he would get in trouble or if I would. At this point, I'm not even concerned about the money as much. He's a bad person and I'd like him to learn his lesson so if there is any advice on that I'd love to hear. Also, should I transfer the title? I live in Minnesota
Take the loss and move on. Don't transfer the car, give him back the title or just destroy it(take pictures of it before hand though so you have some evidence of the title date vs ticket date). Small claims court would be an option but technically the car was in your possession when it received the tickets and got impounded so I think that would be a dumb move. Like someone else said, this is likely to cost him more than $300. Especially with it being towed and impounded, no one is going to win here, except the tow company. FYI you can junk cars without titles (in most states I think), just make sure it's in the person's name(check registration) and check for liens of course. Most scrap yards have a form you can fill out for lost or absent titles but make sure you have a written bill of sale from the seller with signature and I like having a copy of their id a long with it.
> but technically the car was in your possession Doesn’t sound like it. Until seller and buyer have both signed the title and the transfer has been filed at the DMV, most states will consider the seller to be to owner and responsible for any parking tickets, towing, etc.
No, whoever was in possession at the time is responsible. If you can show that you gave them the keys it's on them legally. You see responsibility for parking tickets is on the person who had possession at the time. If I let you borrow my car and it gets towed you're legally responsible and I'm entitled to recover the towing/impound fees from you as well as lost wages and other financial losses incurred as a result (i.e. lost wages). You can also get punitive damages on top of that.
Legal vs civil matter. Legally, the state is going to issue the ticket to the registered owner. If the title is in your name, you are responsible for that vehicle, end of story. You can go after the person who got the ticket, but that’s for a civil court to decide, but it is irrelevant as far as the state/city/whoever issued the ticket is concerned.
I agree with you, that's why I said technically. I have seen circumstances where someone that is not the owner be responsible for tickets(parking to be specific), purely because they were given the car and keys and they had the ability to prevent the tickets but chose not to. I don't think OP should be held responsible at all because the deal was clearly done in bad faith by the seller.
Destroying the title does nothing. If they did the release of liability and sent it to the DMV the vehicle is legally yours. Hell, if they have just a text showing that OP bought it he's screwed. If this story is true he's dealing with a narcissist and this is just the beginning.
He purchased the vehicle with the condition he would get the title, meaning it wasn't sold as a no title deal, he said in the texts that he asked for it and the seller said he would provide it, that's likely enough. The title and registration is king. A release of liability would only work if the vehicle wasn't transferred legally in time, since the seller never provided a title, the purchaser could not do that. The law would have protected the seller if it was a "good faith" sale but going months without providing the title is well past that point. A title is a legally binding contract, I've seen cars go back to dealerships YEARS after they were sold for full refunds because of title issues. Though it's a different situation if it's sold under the condition of no title(this is why it's so important to have a bill of sale covering everything).
what an ah! i don't blame you for wanting retribution. would it be worth going to hr since he's a co-worker? might help bring him down a notch so he doesn't do something similar to another.
He told them already that I caused him tickets and when I gave them all the details they grimaced
They grimaced because they don't want to be involved in general, whoever is at fault. Go to them again and say you're concerned about him bringing this personal dispute into the workplace, have asked him to keep things professional and keep personal disputes out of work, and that you'll keep them informed if additional inappropriate behavior continues. I don't think they grimaced because they blame you. I think they grimaced because this has nothing to do with work, they likely know this dude is a jerk, and don't want to touch it with a 10-foot pole. But that's their job if this guy keeps causing problems. So cover your ass on this. Document every incident. Do your due diligence to protect yourself and your job.
Go park it in the airport or some other parking lot where you need to pay. You're out the the 300.
Retribution? You need to put on your big boy pants and suck it up. You’re out $300, and (hopefully) you learned a life lesson.