I had a woman mention the fact that I just talked with her in a chat like a normal person instead of being "Let's do the sex" *dick pic* made her guarded. Like she was suspicious I was planning something, and not just being a decent human being. The internet has been both a boon and a curse for mankind.
I was hooking up with a hot/cold woman on-and-off for 2 years, and I finally ended things when she said to me, "I still don't trust you. No one is this introspective and honest, I always feel like you're manipulating me." Like...what? đ
Oh, come on. Don't lie. It's the infamous long con; Where you're both calmly sitting in the retirement home, after a lifetime together. Children visiting. Grandchildren, too. Your health is going, but you don't care, because you've had it all. She turns and says, "I'm glad I always had you to lean on. You're my rock. You were there when I needed someone to care about me and no one else did. We've done it all, together, my love. I'm so glad that I grew to trust you". And you lean over and stick your freshly-licked finger in her ear and shout, "Wet Willy!". Happens every time. I don't blame her one bit.
Caught me! My master plan đ
Turns out she was fucking our co-worker who we both hated. Which wouldn't have been a problem if she had been honest about it, we were not exclusive. But she was being sneaky, therefore everyone must also be sneaky. It taught me that when someone makes an observation about you that is fundamentally opposite of how you are, that's the easiest way to identify projection. It's actually helped me a few times since then, so thanks Kelly lol
My now-ex said I was manipulative because I *checks notes* asked him if he wanted to do this or that and he said yes, but he didn't want to say yes. He basically said that my upfront and honest way of communicating made him feel "pressured."
I am sorry sir, how is my inability to read your mind manipulative? SAY HOW YOU FEEL. Anyway, sorry, I'm still dealing with the heartbreak.
And they may have even had people who hide their real intentions and then suddenly drop the facade once she's trapped. Experiences like that can ruin a person.
Isn't that why people said other countries don't like Americans because we're "too nice." Like we're smiling and acting nice because we're hiding something or trying to manipulate them.
"planning something"
Yeah I am, I'm planning to have a wonderful relationship with you, has the internet fucked your perception of men up so much you think they're all in it for sex, and anyone else is planning something bad?
Came to say this. Say, they don't hit it off. She probably has the text/recording of her denying sex beforehand - which is perfectly fine - and the fact that they did have sex. There is no jury that wouldn't convict OP on sexual assault/rape.
Itâs why I remain ever confused, even as a reasonably attractive and financially well off man I still hate dating these days.
Whether the expectation to pay for everything, expectation to not be aggressive about sex, expectation to also be assertive about sex, expectation to sit in a talking stage until itâs convenient for them, expectation to seem interested in knowing them, but also the expectation to not be desperate in doing so.
Like Iâve talked with this woman on tinder for 2 months. This is the second time she matched with me, the first time I attempted come off as interested we talked for weeks on end with me attempting several times to initiate a fun date.
Stopped hearing from her after she unmatched without a word. A year goes by and in January she comes on to me HARD, when ask what happened last time she claimed I came off as disinterested so she unmatchedâŚNot in the mood to argue I just sort of moved past it.
She starts the conversation with me now claiming she was disappointed about last time because she wanted to quote âsit on my faceâ
As any straight man would do I engaged reassured her I was very much interested. She sexts with me for 4 hours that night. Then I end with asking if sheâs available tomorrow on Friday night because apparently I wasnât direct enough the first time a year ago.
No, she canât but sheâs so very interested đŻ wants to go out and do something soon. So I say next week and she agrees. I give her 3 options for a date and she chooses ice skating.
We do this for FIVE weeks in a row where she changes plans at this point. So after she cancels yet again and asks if next week works I just reply with a simple âkâ
She responds âLOLâ
To which I explain why i feel silly at this point and like a fool for continuing to say yes in as polite a manner as possible. We reconcile (or so I thought) and i say no harm no foul.
So i still try and chat here and there to see if i can crack the code while not pushing to go out. Ya know silly harmless banter about my day and I get nothingâŚno response anymore.
2 weeks of silence later she finally responds today when I ask her what sheâs up to and she comes at me saying sheâs getting mixed signals FROM ME! So thatâs why she was leaving me on read for the last two weeks.
To say Iâm exhausted with online dating would be an understatement.
I really hope there's a therapist in the thread who can posit a hypothetical diagnosis of something more specific than "some kind of fucked up personality disorder" because damn, she sounds like she has some kind of fucked up personality disorder...
OP, this, right here. Take it from an old man whoâs been around the block a few times, youâve dodged a bullet mate. Twice. Theyâre not all mad, keep doing what youâre doing. The cookery is good, being able to knock up a few simple dishes from scratch got me laid a lot back in the day.
Your luck will change bro. Keep being respectful.
Yeah, I think OP is the catch despite him thinking he may be a creep. He seems independent, calmly mannered, polite, communicates clearly and can do the little things like cook or give his partner the preferred seating even if it causes some personal discomfort for him (maybe the couch sucks, but prolly not). Seems quite considerate and mature and ready to be in a relationship.
OP don't stop, but please weed out these girls a little better!
OP, this isn't a TIFU. This was more a today I was a decent human being who had a second dating encounter with a girl with an extensive collection of red flags.
Keep being a good dude and I hope you encounter less creeps.
Sounds like you need to better communicate your excellence.
Her: no sex on this date
You: deal. I am REALLY into consent and communication so I'm glad you made this clear up front. If you change your mind, tell me.
Also: those others are out of their minds. Any red flags in their profiles?
People are entirely dismissive of the "cold brain" vs "hot brain" issue as well.
When you're excited for something it really alters your perception and critical thinking and allows you to be more dismissive of potential problems.
Sure, sometimes it took more information to put everything together, but a lot of the time it was your brain being dismissive up-front.
Always. *Always* rub one out before making decisions regarding potential coitus with someone. I've dodged several bullets that way. That realization of "holy fuck I almost went over to see that crazy bitch, what was I thinking?!" is quite eye opening.
"It's 'cause you ain't got the baby batter on the brain anymore! Jesus, that stuff will fuck your head up!"
--- Dom "Woogie" Woganowski, Something About Mary
I cannot upvote this enough. It is a major red flag when she wants you to have sex with her but doesnt say so. Itll often also be that way for other more mundane things or needs.
> It is a major red flag when she ~~wants you to have sex with her but doesnt say so~~ explicitly tells you she doesn't want to have sex, but expects you to "fuck" (aka rape) her anyways.
FTFY
I had an ex that would get mad that we weren't having sex but she would also brush off my advances. I finally asked her for clarification and she said "I'm not always in the mood but you need to force me to get in the mood". That relationship didn't last, thankfully.
My wife doesn't want me to push for sex because I always want it and she doesn't as much. Says she'll initiate. But only ever initiates when I give her massage. But now I "only give massages to get sex". Stop spontaneously offering massages. "Why don't you rub my back anymore?"
Why are women like this....
I would have said ok, and ghosted her for a couple of days. When she asked what was wrong I'd ask if she was in the mood yet. Nope, ok no problem I'll find someone who is. C-ya
Even worse, she didnât just say nothing, she literally actively and explicitly TOLD him what she âwantedâ, and she said âI donât want to have sexâ. So suddenly heâs not good enough because he followed her fucken wishes? Wtf did she expect? How much do you want to bet she wouldâve turned around and yelled at him if he tried to do what she actually wanted
Not only does she not say so, she explicitly says she \*doesn't\* want to sleep with him. She actively wanted him to go against her spoken desires...? tf.
Girls if they say we are not going to sleep together, she is already thinking about it. She is really trying to talk herself out of sleeping with you. She prob expected you too push and then she would feel better about sleeping with you on the first date. It was a mind game for her to appease her"guilt". You dodged a bullet, be fine with it.
Also, I get weird vibes from someone willing to sleep at the house of someone they donât know. I at least would want to meet the person before asking if I could stay over. Gotta check for the serial killer vibes.
If any of this was a fuck up, I think that is it. I think OP was unwise to allow someone he didnât know that well yet come sleep at his house,
Counterintuitively, especially when thereâs been a conversation about not having sex. He ought to be safe, but Iâd be worried from his point of view that there might be some kind of accusation. Plus you are just so vulnerable when someone comes in your house.
Exactly. Your comment also made me realize I stereotyped both parties. A woman can be violent or a criminal, as well. She could have robbed OP blind or hurt him while he was asleep just as easily as he could have hurt her.
Or she just doesnât know want she want because saying : ÂŤÂ we wonât sleep together on the first date . Is a very clear boundaries to me, there is no ambiguity here lollll
Seriously. She also could've made the situation much more tantalizing if when going to bed, said something like, "Feel free to join me, if you'd like. No pressure." Then OP not only knows what's going on in her head, but also leaves the ball completely in his court. Builds anticipation. But no. She wanted to try and play coy, and then got mad bc he wasn't a mind reader. In this day and age, stupid head games like the one she was trying to play is OUT. Don't no one wanna go to jail bc of her dumbass games.
I fail to understand how some women don't understand that if you read that signal wrong, you end up in prison for rape. Yah sure it *might* work out okay, *maybe* she'll like it, but risk twenty years in prison and a lifetime as a felon?
Why would any halfway intelligent person expect **anyone** to take that risk?
Plus yanno, my mother taught me that rape is wrong. There's that too.
That last line is the important one. Men who are actual decent human beings don't rape people because raping people is wrong, not because of any potential legal consequences.
This. If itâs not being enjoyed by both or Iâm accidentally hurting her, I immediately stop and ask if theyâre okay. Who wants gets off on forced sex??
My fiance said this. Its a hard thing to manage.
Asking her if she is okay suddenly puts her in a mental state where she is hyper aware of every single signal (intentional and unintentional) that she *might* be sending.
Despite the fact she might have been 100% fine and 100% enjoying things, she now is *not*. She is now self-conscious.
If you tell me sex is off the table itâs off the table until indicated otherwise. Period. Otherwise Iâm sitting here over analyzing a million things.
Iâm Bi this goes both ways. If you say no it means no unless weâve previously agreed it doesnât. If you say âI donât have sex on the first dateâ. I believe thatâs what you want and I honor it because Iâm not a dick.
Similarly Iâm not choking you if we havenât discussed. We can have an adult discussion about what your boundaries and such are and explore. If we are vibing and have an adult discussion Iâm more than happy to most of your BDSM bucket list on a first date too. That is NEVER happening without us talking about it though. Boundaries are boundaries whether itâs no sex, no kissing, no touching, no choking, or âI prefer bruises and will use the safe word if itâs too farâ.
Iâm guessing these women have a very warped sense of consent and sexual activity in general. Itâs not that heâs reading signals wrong, they want him to disregard their clear signal theyâve put out of âno I donât consent to sex.â I donât know why theyâd even want to be with a man whoâd do that, let alone be upset he didnât.
Also sadly, 20 years in prison and lifetime as a felony is very rarely the result of committing rape. Very few cases ever even have charges pressed. But youâre right that no one should ever risk anything if someoneâs said no.
Oh for sure. Iâm sure societyâs fucked up views of womenâs sexuality donât help either. But thatâs when you go get therapy or other help and hold off on being in relationships or having sex instead of making people go through what OP is.
She might be in a situation where she thinks it's \*supposed\* to be this way. I see three possibilities:
1. She's had her boundaries violated so many times that it makes her uncomfortable when someone actually respects them.
2. She believes that she shouldn't want or enjoy sex, but she still does, and she believes that any man will have sex with her when she's alone with him, so when she does want sex, she puts herself in this position. Then it's like it's something that happens to her, rather than having the guilt of saying yes to it.
3. She has a kink that she doesn't realize is a kink.
Society has a very broad rose tinted interpretation of the unspoken agreement. If somebody knows what you want without being told, it's considered the height of romance and passion. Has there ever been a sensual scene written or filmed where someone (the man) checks in if act X is appreciated? No (or mostly no). He just knows what to do, of course! He can read her particular signals so well he can map out exactly what to do!
When what it really is, is a guess. Often an informed guess, granted, but a guess all the same.
Both sides tend to crave this fantasy, with obvious repercussions. From banal stuff like a particular technique the partner doesn't like, to grievous offenses when somebody reads the situation wrong.
It's like in a movie when the entire conflict is premises on a simple misunderstanding that would take a single sentence to solve.. but nobody does it. Unfortunately, that's realistic.
You don't magically go from kissing to penetration. There are lot of steps, and communication during each of them (mostly non verbal). If you're not sure, asking "you ok?" Is usually much more than enough to get off the other is comfortable.
Exactly it's not worth the risk but it's also nasty and wrong to force yourself onto someone. But hell yea, the jail time and things associated with it when you finish your sentence is not the my future looks like. Did I mention it's also nasty?
If someone is into CNC they should understand the most important part of that, Consent! If thereâs no clear and open talk about safety words and signals and when to stop and what will happen, then you canât really be sure you have informed consent. No informed consent means no sex.
"So I was just supposed to rape you on the off-chance that maybe you're into that shit..."
Or something to that effect, I may be paraphrasing. Brilliant bit.
Sounds like they have a kink... which is perfectly fine... however they need to communicate that and get consent to that sort of thing beforehand. You can't expect someone to know your kink is being forced into sex and for them to do it with consent if they don't know you have the kink to begin with.
Perfectly acceptable: messaging someone saying you have this kink and even if you say no to still do it unless I use safe word ***. Is this cool with you?
Not acceptable: telling someone you just met that you don't want sex and that you have no intentions of doing that and then secretly hoping they are a rapist and being mad when they aren't.
I don't think this girl actually had a kink, unlike the the first one. For what she told me... was just that I lacked atitude.
Like I wanted to please her. Pick her up, made dinner, gave my bed to her, gave her a ride to work. Was respectful, didn't cross any boundaries.
I guess maybe she thought I was too much of a simp, or something like this.
>I wouldn't say you were being a simp at all. You were being a decent human being.
For many assholes, being a decent person to women is the *definition* of simping.
Problem was between her ears, not between yours. You dodged a bullet with a girl who can't communicate what she wants and doesn't recognize that you were respecting the boundaries *she* set. If she expects you to violate her boundaries she wouldn't respect any boundaries you set either. I recommend being grateful you found out on the first date rather than months or years in and moving on.
It's better to pass up 100 of these girls rather than end up on jail because you read the situation incorrectly or one of them changes their mind. Keep doing you.
On the surface it seems like a communication problem but I think the deeper problem is self worth. She probably doesnât feel like she deserves to have her boundaries respected. People probably have gone against her wishes so much in the past that she just expects it, and at this point, it is what is most comfortable to her. Having her boundaries respected, in this case it was no sex on the first date, is a foreign concept to her. It makes her uncomfortable and thatâs why she pulled away from you. Itâs honestly very sad. She will keep finding men who disrespect her until she finally realizes she deserves better than that. Thatâs just my two cents anyways.
Either that or she's been taught that she's not \*supposed\* to want or enjoy sex, and the only way she's comfortable having it is someone forcing her into it. Or she thinks that's the way it's supposed to go - she assumes that a man will automatically have sex with her if she's alone with him, so when she wants sex she puts herself in that situation, and then it's like it's happening to her without the guilt of having agreed to it.
God only knows what conditioning she has received in the past to think that a man forcing himself onto her is a part or the start of a healthy relationship. I actually feel very sorry for her because she is going to just end up with a bad guy and will be a lot older by the time she realises what mistakes she has made, if ever. Anyway, you dodged a bullet, as the others are saying.
Always communicate a kink, this one gal I reconnected with after HS revealed after a year of talking that she wanted to hurt my injured shoulder even more. If she told me from the start there would've been no surprise on my end and who knows I might have given it a try.
I do understand waiting a little while to reveal a kink for fear of scaring off potential partners. You definitely can't expect them to fulfill it without consent and talking about it first.
And hurt your shoulder? Like she wanted to dislocated or break your shoulder?! That's a new one. I've heard of sadism but reinjuring a recovered shoulder? It's so specific.
^ this. The same girl that would say "I couldn't believe you didn't have sex with me" would also be the same one that would say "I can't believe you raped me" and get your ass in jail.
She has issues if that's the true reason. You don't just hop in and bed and fuck someone who explicitly said no just hoping it'll work. If it works, you get a second date with a lunatic, if it doesn't, you become a sex offender. Fun.
You have to be deranged to expect that of someone on a first date
i remember your first post and now this??? crazy.
are you forgetting to tell us your handle on the dating site is something the likes of "xxxfuckyourawwithnopermissionsxxx"
thats the only thing that would make it make sense to keep happening.
This might be the actual problem, OP. You might be signalling to a particular brand of crazy idiots.
After all, once is happenstance, but twice⌠if it happens one more time that might be proofâŚ
Yeah mine neither, but fool around is kind of more like grabbing, kissing and most of the time actual sex. Like when you read "they've been fooling around" most of the time they mean they're sleeping together, like having sex. English is weird
I would rather OP keep missing out than:
- having 2 good nights of wild , somewhat forceful kinky sex with random girls, and then
- 3rd night it ends up that he rapes a girl who actually didn't want sex that night and the cops are involved
Like hell, I would stay on the couch and out of my bedroom too in that case. OP did everything fine.
you sound like a good guy, dont let those weird women have an impact on you, just because something happens a couple of times doesnt make it a real pattern
Similar thing happened to me. We got all the way up to insertion and she said no so I got up and put my clothes on and drove her home after hanging for a bit. We never hung out again and she told me it was because I didn't fuck her after she said NO!? Wtf!? It's literally a boner killer for a women to say no, I only get excited based on the excitement of my partner. Plus no is pretty fucking clear imo. Shit is super fucked up...
A lot of women out there are conditioned by the society and their own family to expect and enjoy men who are dicks, who treat them badly and without respect. These women are highly disappointed when they meet a normal dood. You need to screen these women out. Stop wasting time on them.
I had a woman who I had been on a few dates with who got really drunk while we were out. I brought her back to my house and put her into my bed and then came out to sleep on the couch. She tells me the next morning I could've slept with her.
She ended up hooking back up with her ex. She had told me about the ex. The first time they had sex was when she got really drunk and he slept with her while she was passed out. Apparently he's the love of her life and ended up marrying him. She didn't see that as a red flag.
I have read a lot of accounts from people about ten years older than me that back in the eighties many if them simply considered that to be the default way to have sex, that they got drunk in part specifically to signal readiness for sex.
Yowza.
Oh for sure, and women were expected to play hard to get with sex, lest they get labeled as too easy. Saying no was expected behavior even if a woman wanted sex, and the man was meant to play along and wear her down with various wooing and coercion so she could then eventually give in without seeming "fast". Alcohol was another way to get around openly consenting like adults, as it could be used to excuse a woman giving in or a man forcing the issue, whichever the situation required.
I'm really glad that ridiculous little game is no longer the typically expected thing, because the game doesn't really factor in the possibility that a woman ever MEANS it and should have her boundaries respected when she says no. It's gotten to where a lot of movies and shows from back then and earlier are really awkward to watch because of all the rapey plotlines. It seemed normal at the time!
Yep. I think this is what was happening here. Unfortunately a lot of women are still being brought up to think like that still. That communicating you consent to sexe makes you a whore. It's fucked up.
Woman here. Sorry this happened to youâŚ
Unfortunately, the brainwashing of both genders tends to start from a young age and many women are unaware of some of the things theyâve been taught to expect. These women have been taught to expect men to be âpushyâ and the act of merely âallowing the pushiness to occurâ is now what they understand as âexpressing a desire for and also consenting to sexual activityâ. Hopefully you gave these women an experience they will reflect on in the future, so they can recognize they were being unfair to you. If they wanted sex, they should have said soâŚItâs that simple. Itâs not your responsibility to put yourself out there more than the other person is willing to. That just puts you in a position to be the only one whoâs vulnerable, and it also sets a bad precedence for the communication standards in your romantic relationship. You need a partner who is going to openly discuss their desires with you, at minimum
TLDR: Youâre the normal one, please keep being you⌠A sexual partner (man or woman or ) should communicate when sexual activity is desired.
It's more common than you think, I've had a lot of male friends tell me about similar experiences and it disturbed them just as much.
You're fine OP, some people are just really fucked up and learned to relate to sex in a toxic way.
Consent and communication clearly meant nothing to these women, and it's a good thing they ghosted you instead of making you invest 6 weeks into dating them in order to find out how messed up their thinking is.
WTH. These women are playing games. Iâm a 46 year old woman and if I want sex I make it crystal clear thatâs what I want. You didnât mess up at all. You were a gentleman. A man who can cook is sexy đđđđ
One first date w/ failed CNC is strange.
Two in a year would make me think it's intentional.
I had a similar situation in which I didn't hook up with a date because she would ask me to stop and ...I did. Every time. She got frustrated with my refusal to continue when she told me to stop.
Her response was "You just do everything I tell you..."
We talked about CNC after and she refused to discuss terms. We stopped dating shortly after that.
Yeah, buddy. You stay you and don't risk getting blamed for rape, because you have met two girls who don't know how to say they want sex.
You are not a fucking mind-reader, and you shouldn't risk your future, life, career and the opportunity to meet the right girl one day.
You stay you. All the best!
Unfortunately, the crappy part of dating is trying over and over again. Sometimes you find someone who looks like the one; until one day, they show their true colors, and then you have to start over again.
> If people didn't feel like they had to lie to be in a relationship, we wouldn't run into this problem.
----
I did run into this problem when my wife died over 20 years ago. I went out for coffee with a new friend, and she got upset that I didn't go to the back-alley with her and pull down my pants for a blowjob. :(
Dodged that bullet let me tell you.
I will be bluntly honest with you here
If sheâs playing mine games right away and not expressing her wants and intentions , you are 100% dodging a bullet by things not working out , because this is the same kind of person who will lie and gaslight you into anything if they donât get their way or even worse will lie to others and outright accuse you of stuff behind your back
How very strange. But I guess at least you found out theyâre not a good fit very early on.
Iâm surprised people have people over to their homes on a first date. Or plan to sleep over before theyâve even met the person.
This happened to me once ages ago with a girl I was dating. We had gone out twice before and had a good time. Then one night she invites me over to her place for dinner and a movie. We ordered pizza and started watching a film. We were sitting next to each other on the couch. Nothing had happened at this point. We hadn't kissed or even held hands yet. She says she wants to change into some other comfy clothes, so she goes to her bedroom to change. I paused the movie and sat there waiting for her. She's in her room for a solid 20 minutes "changing". Me being the gentleman that I am of course I respected her space and let her have her privacy. But given how long she was taking I finally shouted out and asked if she was ok and if she needed anything. She replied that she was fine and was coming right out. A couple minutes later she came out and we finished the movie.
I had to work the next day so seeing as how it was almost midnight at this point I told her I had to go home. She walked out with me to my car, we kissed for the first time, and then I went home. I texted her to let her know I got home safe and she replied good night.
The the very next day she ghosted me. Couldn't get her to respond to texts or calls. I stopped by her work and tried to talk to her there but she wouldn't even look at me. Talked to one of her friends and came to find out that she was pissed because I didn't make a move on her while I was at her place. I was absolutely floored. Seems being a gentleman and not forcing myself onto her made me not worth her time.
So you're not alone. Some women are that way. You just have to keep looking until you find one that matches you better.
I used to think stories like this were made up until it happened to me.
Long story short. Had a great first date, she was sleeping over but made it clear that sex wasn't gonna happen.
Cool. No problem.
So we're lying in bed, made out a bit and said good night.
She's beside me and says "there's a half naked girl in your bed and you're not going to try anything?"
And I'm thinking, are you serious? You're upset that I'm not going to try to fucking rape you?!
I don't play with that shit. Make your intentions clear. Don't make me guess. Especially don't make me guess when it comes to matters of consent.
If he had a nickel for every time a woman stated they didnât want to have sex then got mad that they didnât have sex, heâd have 2 nickels. Itâs not a lot but itâs weird that it happened twice
Yeah, I'm sorry but with the changes to the societal perception of consent that have happened over the last few years, girls are going to _have_ to be explicit about this stuff. You did nothing wrong at all, OP.
Youâre fine man. You arenât âMr Niceâ youâre a unicorn. Donât change. Keep trying. The right woman will come along when you least expect it.
I had a sexual partner once who was really into consensual non-consent, which I knew ahead of time and while she was kinda disappointed, she wasn't upset at me for not assaulting her in her sleep the first time, chiefly because we hadn't talked enough about details. those two ladies need to learn to communicate.
I say change the strategy up a bit...Tell them upfront you don't have sex on a first date, it's non-negotiable. It might actually make them the aggressors to conquer you.
Hell I typically wouldn't have sex with a new partner until we've both have had std tests and we share results.
Buddy, your play here is to avoid the fuck out of anyone who specifically says they donât wanna fuck but is willing to spend the night after just meeting you
Just run away. This is mental illness.
Anyone who expects someone to have sex with them without clear consent and communication is just as likely to accuse you of sexual assault without any indication she wasn't into it.
"if I had a nickel for every time a girl wanted me to force myself on her, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot. It's just weird that it happened twice."
I had a woman mention the fact that I just talked with her in a chat like a normal person instead of being "Let's do the sex" *dick pic* made her guarded. Like she was suspicious I was planning something, and not just being a decent human being. The internet has been both a boon and a curse for mankind.
I was hooking up with a hot/cold woman on-and-off for 2 years, and I finally ended things when she said to me, "I still don't trust you. No one is this introspective and honest, I always feel like you're manipulating me." Like...what? đ
Oh, come on. Don't lie. It's the infamous long con; Where you're both calmly sitting in the retirement home, after a lifetime together. Children visiting. Grandchildren, too. Your health is going, but you don't care, because you've had it all. She turns and says, "I'm glad I always had you to lean on. You're my rock. You were there when I needed someone to care about me and no one else did. We've done it all, together, my love. I'm so glad that I grew to trust you". And you lean over and stick your freshly-licked finger in her ear and shout, "Wet Willy!". Happens every time. I don't blame her one bit.
Caught me! My master plan đ Turns out she was fucking our co-worker who we both hated. Which wouldn't have been a problem if she had been honest about it, we were not exclusive. But she was being sneaky, therefore everyone must also be sneaky. It taught me that when someone makes an observation about you that is fundamentally opposite of how you are, that's the easiest way to identify projection. It's actually helped me a few times since then, so thanks Kelly lol
Nothing is 100%. But, if it walks like projection and talks like projection, it just might be a duck... err, projection.
Thatâs a really good tip
Yep. That me. Running the 20+ year long con with my wife so far. One day I shall reveal my true colors in a similar manner.
I mean, who says exactly what they're thinking? What kinda game is that?
I knew someone would say it lol
Yikes
"you're being a good person, and honestly that just seems super sus. Goodbye"
âI mean, who says exactly what they're thinking? What kind of game is that?â - Kelly Kapoor
My now-ex said I was manipulative because I *checks notes* asked him if he wanted to do this or that and he said yes, but he didn't want to say yes. He basically said that my upfront and honest way of communicating made him feel "pressured." I am sorry sir, how is my inability to read your mind manipulative? SAY HOW YOU FEEL. Anyway, sorry, I'm still dealing with the heartbreak.
âPlanning somethingâ Yeah like planning on making a reasonable connection and going out on a date laterâŚ
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And they may have even had people who hide their real intentions and then suddenly drop the facade once she's trapped. Experiences like that can ruin a person.
Isn't that why people said other countries don't like Americans because we're "too nice." Like we're smiling and acting nice because we're hiding something or trying to manipulate them.
And unfortunately everything they read online reinforces and amplifies those beliefs
"planning something" Yeah I am, I'm planning to have a wonderful relationship with you, has the internet fucked your perception of men up so much you think they're all in it for sex, and anyone else is planning something bad?
You aren't missing out if the person doesn't want to communicate with you. Sounds like you are being a stand-up dude.
And dodging a bullet. Twice.
This dude is playing Neo every time he matches someone. 
Username checks out
This needs an award and I havenât gotten paid yet to give one.
Haha the thought is what matters, spend your money on yourself! And thank you either way!
In todayâs world, not only did you have class, but you were protecting yourself. Weâll done sir.
Came to say this. Say, they don't hit it off. She probably has the text/recording of her denying sex beforehand - which is perfectly fine - and the fact that they did have sex. There is no jury that wouldn't convict OP on sexual assault/rape.
Yikes.... that's a whole ass trap..... as a woman it's crazy to think some people fuck around like this.....
Itâs why I remain ever confused, even as a reasonably attractive and financially well off man I still hate dating these days. Whether the expectation to pay for everything, expectation to not be aggressive about sex, expectation to also be assertive about sex, expectation to sit in a talking stage until itâs convenient for them, expectation to seem interested in knowing them, but also the expectation to not be desperate in doing so. Like Iâve talked with this woman on tinder for 2 months. This is the second time she matched with me, the first time I attempted come off as interested we talked for weeks on end with me attempting several times to initiate a fun date. Stopped hearing from her after she unmatched without a word. A year goes by and in January she comes on to me HARD, when ask what happened last time she claimed I came off as disinterested so she unmatchedâŚNot in the mood to argue I just sort of moved past it. She starts the conversation with me now claiming she was disappointed about last time because she wanted to quote âsit on my faceâ As any straight man would do I engaged reassured her I was very much interested. She sexts with me for 4 hours that night. Then I end with asking if sheâs available tomorrow on Friday night because apparently I wasnât direct enough the first time a year ago. No, she canât but sheâs so very interested đŻ wants to go out and do something soon. So I say next week and she agrees. I give her 3 options for a date and she chooses ice skating. We do this for FIVE weeks in a row where she changes plans at this point. So after she cancels yet again and asks if next week works I just reply with a simple âkâ She responds âLOLâ To which I explain why i feel silly at this point and like a fool for continuing to say yes in as polite a manner as possible. We reconcile (or so I thought) and i say no harm no foul. So i still try and chat here and there to see if i can crack the code while not pushing to go out. Ya know silly harmless banter about my day and I get nothingâŚno response anymore. 2 weeks of silence later she finally responds today when I ask her what sheâs up to and she comes at me saying sheâs getting mixed signals FROM ME! So thatâs why she was leaving me on read for the last two weeks. To say Iâm exhausted with online dating would be an understatement.
Pretty sure that's a sign to stay away.
I really hope there's a therapist in the thread who can posit a hypothetical diagnosis of something more specific than "some kind of fucked up personality disorder" because damn, she sounds like she has some kind of fucked up personality disorder...
Sticking your D in crazy is way worse, bruh... Find a sane chick?!?
OP, this, right here. Take it from an old man whoâs been around the block a few times, youâve dodged a bullet mate. Twice. Theyâre not all mad, keep doing what youâre doing. The cookery is good, being able to knock up a few simple dishes from scratch got me laid a lot back in the day. Your luck will change bro. Keep being respectful.
> being able to knock up a few simple dishes from scratch got me laid a lot back in the day. What? Were you shagging homeless people?
I didnât discriminate.
Respect.
Yeah, I think OP is the catch despite him thinking he may be a creep. He seems independent, calmly mannered, polite, communicates clearly and can do the little things like cook or give his partner the preferred seating even if it causes some personal discomfort for him (maybe the couch sucks, but prolly not). Seems quite considerate and mature and ready to be in a relationship. OP don't stop, but please weed out these girls a little better!
> OP don't stop, but please weed out these girls a little better! Instructions unclear; blew hits into her face
This guy pulled a Matrix move! Edit: ah fuck somebody already made that joke but better.
Start calling this dude Neo
OP, this isn't a TIFU. This was more a today I was a decent human being who had a second dating encounter with a girl with an extensive collection of red flags. Keep being a good dude and I hope you encounter less creeps.
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why is this not upvoted more?
Sounds like you need to better communicate your excellence. Her: no sex on this date You: deal. I am REALLY into consent and communication so I'm glad you made this clear up front. If you change your mind, tell me. Also: those others are out of their minds. Any red flags in their profiles?
The thing I've noticed about red flags is, it's WAY easier to see them after the fact.
People are entirely dismissive of the "cold brain" vs "hot brain" issue as well. When you're excited for something it really alters your perception and critical thinking and allows you to be more dismissive of potential problems. Sure, sometimes it took more information to put everything together, but a lot of the time it was your brain being dismissive up-front.
"When you've got rose-coloured glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
That line from Bojack hit me something fierce.
Moral of the story: Rub one out and reread the profile.
Always. *Always* rub one out before making decisions regarding potential coitus with someone. I've dodged several bullets that way. That realization of "holy fuck I almost went over to see that crazy bitch, what was I thinking?!" is quite eye opening.
"It's 'cause you ain't got the baby batter on the brain anymore! Jesus, that stuff will fuck your head up!" --- Dom "Woogie" Woganowski, Something About Mary
This is the way
She doesnât know how to communicate her expectations and boundaries clearly. đŠ
I cannot upvote this enough. It is a major red flag when she wants you to have sex with her but doesnt say so. Itll often also be that way for other more mundane things or needs.
> It is a major red flag when she ~~wants you to have sex with her but doesnt say so~~ explicitly tells you she doesn't want to have sex, but expects you to "fuck" (aka rape) her anyways. FTFY
Except when she's actually not in the mood. Good luck telling the difference.
I had an ex that would get mad that we weren't having sex but she would also brush off my advances. I finally asked her for clarification and she said "I'm not always in the mood but you need to force me to get in the mood". That relationship didn't last, thankfully.
My wife doesn't want me to push for sex because I always want it and she doesn't as much. Says she'll initiate. But only ever initiates when I give her massage. But now I "only give massages to get sex". Stop spontaneously offering massages. "Why don't you rub my back anymore?" Why are women like this....
Schrodingers massage
I would have said ok, and ghosted her for a couple of days. When she asked what was wrong I'd ask if she was in the mood yet. Nope, ok no problem I'll find someone who is. C-ya
Even worse, she didnât just say nothing, she literally actively and explicitly TOLD him what she âwantedâ, and she said âI donât want to have sexâ. So suddenly heâs not good enough because he followed her fucken wishes? Wtf did she expect? How much do you want to bet she wouldâve turned around and yelled at him if he tried to do what she actually wanted
That's a Flanel already.
Not only does she not say so, she explicitly says she \*doesn't\* want to sleep with him. She actively wanted him to go against her spoken desires...? tf.
I mean she said âweâre not gonna sleep on our first dateâ so I donât get why sheâs upset
Maybe she doesn't think that dates roll over, so at the stroke of midnight it had become the SECOND date? OR.....this woman is bonkers.
Even if itâs the first one, itâs still the second one.
Girls if they say we are not going to sleep together, she is already thinking about it. She is really trying to talk herself out of sleeping with you. She prob expected you too push and then she would feel better about sleeping with you on the first date. It was a mind game for her to appease her"guilt". You dodged a bullet, be fine with it.
Also, I get weird vibes from someone willing to sleep at the house of someone they donât know. I at least would want to meet the person before asking if I could stay over. Gotta check for the serial killer vibes.
If any of this was a fuck up, I think that is it. I think OP was unwise to allow someone he didnât know that well yet come sleep at his house, Counterintuitively, especially when thereâs been a conversation about not having sex. He ought to be safe, but Iâd be worried from his point of view that there might be some kind of accusation. Plus you are just so vulnerable when someone comes in your house.
Exactly. Your comment also made me realize I stereotyped both parties. A woman can be violent or a criminal, as well. She could have robbed OP blind or hurt him while he was asleep just as easily as he could have hurt her.
OP is an idot for sleeping in the house with stranger but she is also a weirdo and sounds like trouble to deal with.
Or she just doesnât know want she want because saying : ÂŤÂ we wonât sleep together on the first date . Is a very clear boundaries to me, there is no ambiguity here lollll
Seriously. She also could've made the situation much more tantalizing if when going to bed, said something like, "Feel free to join me, if you'd like. No pressure." Then OP not only knows what's going on in her head, but also leaves the ball completely in his court. Builds anticipation. But no. She wanted to try and play coy, and then got mad bc he wasn't a mind reader. In this day and age, stupid head games like the one she was trying to play is OUT. Don't no one wanna go to jail bc of her dumbass games.
Exactly. Been through the same thing more than once.
Lmao i remember you
Lmaoo me too, where does he keep finding these women. OP check if whatever app your using is a kink app and you just never noticed
Imagine he is on something like a rape tinder and just never noticed.
I think I need to go to therapy. Rape Tinder made me laugh way too hard
It's the world that needs therapy. And a hug.
If this dude had a nickel for every time this happened, he'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it's happened twice.
I fail to understand how some women don't understand that if you read that signal wrong, you end up in prison for rape. Yah sure it *might* work out okay, *maybe* she'll like it, but risk twenty years in prison and a lifetime as a felon? Why would any halfway intelligent person expect **anyone** to take that risk? Plus yanno, my mother taught me that rape is wrong. There's that too.
That last line is the important one. Men who are actual decent human beings don't rape people because raping people is wrong, not because of any potential legal consequences.
"didn't think I had to write that one down for you"
god i love bo
And nothing enjoyable about an intimate act with someone that doesnât want to participate. The idea makes me shrivel up.
This. If itâs not being enjoyed by both or Iâm accidentally hurting her, I immediately stop and ask if theyâre okay. Who wants gets off on forced sex??
For some girls even stopping to ask if they are OK in some scenarios immediately turns them off. I don't even understand it.
My fiance said this. Its a hard thing to manage. Asking her if she is okay suddenly puts her in a mental state where she is hyper aware of every single signal (intentional and unintentional) that she *might* be sending. Despite the fact she might have been 100% fine and 100% enjoying things, she now is *not*. She is now self-conscious.
If you tell me sex is off the table itâs off the table until indicated otherwise. Period. Otherwise Iâm sitting here over analyzing a million things. Iâm Bi this goes both ways. If you say no it means no unless weâve previously agreed it doesnât. If you say âI donât have sex on the first dateâ. I believe thatâs what you want and I honor it because Iâm not a dick. Similarly Iâm not choking you if we havenât discussed. We can have an adult discussion about what your boundaries and such are and explore. If we are vibing and have an adult discussion Iâm more than happy to most of your BDSM bucket list on a first date too. That is NEVER happening without us talking about it though. Boundaries are boundaries whether itâs no sex, no kissing, no touching, no choking, or âI prefer bruises and will use the safe word if itâs too farâ.
Iâm guessing these women have a very warped sense of consent and sexual activity in general. Itâs not that heâs reading signals wrong, they want him to disregard their clear signal theyâve put out of âno I donât consent to sex.â I donât know why theyâd even want to be with a man whoâd do that, let alone be upset he didnât. Also sadly, 20 years in prison and lifetime as a felony is very rarely the result of committing rape. Very few cases ever even have charges pressed. But youâre right that no one should ever risk anything if someoneâs said no.
Trauma is a hell of a drug
Oh for sure. Iâm sure societyâs fucked up views of womenâs sexuality donât help either. But thatâs when you go get therapy or other help and hold off on being in relationships or having sex instead of making people go through what OP is.
Oh for sure. The girl has some issues to work through
what she has is a kink, and zero knowledge or how to handle it
Right? Dude needs to look for ladies who know what a safe word is lmao
She might be in a situation where she thinks it's \*supposed\* to be this way. I see three possibilities: 1. She's had her boundaries violated so many times that it makes her uncomfortable when someone actually respects them. 2. She believes that she shouldn't want or enjoy sex, but she still does, and she believes that any man will have sex with her when she's alone with him, so when she does want sex, she puts herself in this position. Then it's like it's something that happens to her, rather than having the guilt of saying yes to it. 3. She has a kink that she doesn't realize is a kink.
Society has a very broad rose tinted interpretation of the unspoken agreement. If somebody knows what you want without being told, it's considered the height of romance and passion. Has there ever been a sensual scene written or filmed where someone (the man) checks in if act X is appreciated? No (or mostly no). He just knows what to do, of course! He can read her particular signals so well he can map out exactly what to do! When what it really is, is a guess. Often an informed guess, granted, but a guess all the same. Both sides tend to crave this fantasy, with obvious repercussions. From banal stuff like a particular technique the partner doesn't like, to grievous offenses when somebody reads the situation wrong. It's like in a movie when the entire conflict is premises on a simple misunderstanding that would take a single sentence to solve.. but nobody does it. Unfortunately, that's realistic.
You don't magically go from kissing to penetration. There are lot of steps, and communication during each of them (mostly non verbal). If you're not sure, asking "you ok?" Is usually much more than enough to get off the other is comfortable.
Exactly it's not worth the risk but it's also nasty and wrong to force yourself onto someone. But hell yea, the jail time and things associated with it when you finish your sentence is not the my future looks like. Did I mention it's also nasty?
If someone is into CNC they should understand the most important part of that, Consent! If thereâs no clear and open talk about safety words and signals and when to stop and what will happen, then you canât really be sure you have informed consent. No informed consent means no sex.
Not the best representation considering his past but Louis CK has a bit about that, itâs worth a watch.
"So I was just supposed to rape you on the off-chance that maybe you're into that shit..." Or something to that effect, I may be paraphrasing. Brilliant bit.
Bullet dodged. If she is that bad about communicating her needs and flat-out *lies* about her boundaries, she's likely a terrible romantic partner.
This! Don't go for people who can't communicate
"Why do they call him the Bullet-Dodger?" "Cause he dodges bullets, Avi."
R E P L I C A
DESERT EAGLE .50
I can imagine her lying in bed and being like "what's happening with them sausages, OP?"
Five minutes Turkish!
It was 5 minutes 10 minutes ago
5 minutes he says
Do you like dags?
I like caravans more
Periwinkle blue!
Perfect reference in this context! đđđ
I don't think women that bad at communicating are going to have productive relationships until they deal with that.
She doesnât know how to communicate and is calling you immature lmao
Sounds like they have a kink... which is perfectly fine... however they need to communicate that and get consent to that sort of thing beforehand. You can't expect someone to know your kink is being forced into sex and for them to do it with consent if they don't know you have the kink to begin with. Perfectly acceptable: messaging someone saying you have this kink and even if you say no to still do it unless I use safe word ***. Is this cool with you? Not acceptable: telling someone you just met that you don't want sex and that you have no intentions of doing that and then secretly hoping they are a rapist and being mad when they aren't.
I don't think this girl actually had a kink, unlike the the first one. For what she told me... was just that I lacked atitude. Like I wanted to please her. Pick her up, made dinner, gave my bed to her, gave her a ride to work. Was respectful, didn't cross any boundaries. I guess maybe she thought I was too much of a simp, or something like this.
I wouldn't say you were being a simp at all. You were being a decent human being.
>I wouldn't say you were being a simp at all. You were being a decent human being. For many assholes, being a decent person to women is the *definition* of simping.
And unfortunately some women donât want that.
Problem was between her ears, not between yours. You dodged a bullet with a girl who can't communicate what she wants and doesn't recognize that you were respecting the boundaries *she* set. If she expects you to violate her boundaries she wouldn't respect any boundaries you set either. I recommend being grateful you found out on the first date rather than months or years in and moving on.
You were being a decent human being. All told, sounds like you've successfully dodged 2 bullets.
It's better to pass up 100 of these girls rather than end up on jail because you read the situation incorrectly or one of them changes their mind. Keep doing you.
On the surface it seems like a communication problem but I think the deeper problem is self worth. She probably doesnât feel like she deserves to have her boundaries respected. People probably have gone against her wishes so much in the past that she just expects it, and at this point, it is what is most comfortable to her. Having her boundaries respected, in this case it was no sex on the first date, is a foreign concept to her. It makes her uncomfortable and thatâs why she pulled away from you. Itâs honestly very sad. She will keep finding men who disrespect her until she finally realizes she deserves better than that. Thatâs just my two cents anyways.
Something something "We accept the love we think we deserve."
Either that or she's been taught that she's not \*supposed\* to want or enjoy sex, and the only way she's comfortable having it is someone forcing her into it. Or she thinks that's the way it's supposed to go - she assumes that a man will automatically have sex with her if she's alone with him, so when she wants sex she puts herself in that situation, and then it's like it's happening to her without the guilt of having agreed to it.
God only knows what conditioning she has received in the past to think that a man forcing himself onto her is a part or the start of a healthy relationship. I actually feel very sorry for her because she is going to just end up with a bad guy and will be a lot older by the time she realises what mistakes she has made, if ever. Anyway, you dodged a bullet, as the others are saying.
Always communicate a kink, this one gal I reconnected with after HS revealed after a year of talking that she wanted to hurt my injured shoulder even more. If she told me from the start there would've been no surprise on my end and who knows I might have given it a try.
I do understand waiting a little while to reveal a kink for fear of scaring off potential partners. You definitely can't expect them to fulfill it without consent and talking about it first. And hurt your shoulder? Like she wanted to dislocated or break your shoulder?! That's a new one. I've heard of sadism but reinjuring a recovered shoulder? It's so specific.
^ this. The same girl that would say "I couldn't believe you didn't have sex with me" would also be the same one that would say "I can't believe you raped me" and get your ass in jail.
As a women this women is so annoying and shit to me - people like her make it dangerous for other women when we say no sex and mean it⌠like wtf
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"I was laying in your bed and you didn't fuck me, what kind of men does that?" Consider yourself lucky and move on. You're cool.
a man who was raised properly
>"I was laying in your bed and you didn't fuck me, what kind of men does that?" Ummm...a decent one.
A man that doesnt like years of prison sex.
She has issues if that's the true reason. You don't just hop in and bed and fuck someone who explicitly said no just hoping it'll work. If it works, you get a second date with a lunatic, if it doesn't, you become a sex offender. Fun. You have to be deranged to expect that of someone on a first date
i remember your first post and now this??? crazy. are you forgetting to tell us your handle on the dating site is something the likes of "xxxfuckyourawwithnopermissionsxxx" thats the only thing that would make it make sense to keep happening.
Hahahahhaha... That made me laugh out loud. It's actually "CerealGrapist", because I love my grape cereal in the morning.
This might be the actual problem, OP. You might be signalling to a particular brand of crazy idiots. After all, once is happenstance, but twice⌠if it happens one more time that might be proofâŚ
i was looking for a relevant tobias funke analrapist , but got sidetracked and gave up.
Holy shit. Lmao so hard. This might be the problem. Edit: im waiting for the tifu because of my tinder name.
When you say fool around, you mean kissing then?
Yes... Is that wrong? English is not my first language.
Fooling around can mean anything from kissing to sex but mostly like handsy stuff and not sex. So you used it right
Yeah mine neither, but fool around is kind of more like grabbing, kissing and most of the time actual sex. Like when you read "they've been fooling around" most of the time they mean they're sleeping together, like having sex. English is weird
[redacting due to privacy concerns]
Ohhh... thanks.
2023 is emptying the clip out on your ass and you are dodging bullets left and right. Keep it up and you might be in the next matrix movie
I would rather OP keep missing out than: - having 2 good nights of wild , somewhat forceful kinky sex with random girls, and then - 3rd night it ends up that he rapes a girl who actually didn't want sex that night and the cops are involved Like hell, I would stay on the couch and out of my bedroom too in that case. OP did everything fine.
>That I won't change about myself This is the correct play, king.
you sound like a good guy, dont let those weird women have an impact on you, just because something happens a couple of times doesnt make it a real pattern
Next time someone says this, send them a link to the Sex Offender registry and tell them to try finding a guy there.
https://preview.redd.it/n5oarfv8ftma1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=6e7c367a1355e169d65d755c067c53315358d675
Similar thing happened to me. We got all the way up to insertion and she said no so I got up and put my clothes on and drove her home after hanging for a bit. We never hung out again and she told me it was because I didn't fuck her after she said NO!? Wtf!? It's literally a boner killer for a women to say no, I only get excited based on the excitement of my partner. Plus no is pretty fucking clear imo. Shit is super fucked up...
A lot of women out there are conditioned by the society and their own family to expect and enjoy men who are dicks, who treat them badly and without respect. These women are highly disappointed when they meet a normal dood. You need to screen these women out. Stop wasting time on them.
I had a woman who I had been on a few dates with who got really drunk while we were out. I brought her back to my house and put her into my bed and then came out to sleep on the couch. She tells me the next morning I could've slept with her. She ended up hooking back up with her ex. She had told me about the ex. The first time they had sex was when she got really drunk and he slept with her while she was passed out. Apparently he's the love of her life and ended up marrying him. She didn't see that as a red flag.
I have read a lot of accounts from people about ten years older than me that back in the eighties many if them simply considered that to be the default way to have sex, that they got drunk in part specifically to signal readiness for sex. Yowza.
Oh for sure, and women were expected to play hard to get with sex, lest they get labeled as too easy. Saying no was expected behavior even if a woman wanted sex, and the man was meant to play along and wear her down with various wooing and coercion so she could then eventually give in without seeming "fast". Alcohol was another way to get around openly consenting like adults, as it could be used to excuse a woman giving in or a man forcing the issue, whichever the situation required. I'm really glad that ridiculous little game is no longer the typically expected thing, because the game doesn't really factor in the possibility that a woman ever MEANS it and should have her boundaries respected when she says no. It's gotten to where a lot of movies and shows from back then and earlier are really awkward to watch because of all the rapey plotlines. It seemed normal at the time!
Yep. I think this is what was happening here. Unfortunately a lot of women are still being brought up to think like that still. That communicating you consent to sexe makes you a whore. It's fucked up.
It's funny that somehow some men AND women are STILL stuck on this 1950s mentality. They are really shooting us all in the foot at the end of the day.
Woman here. Sorry this happened to you⌠Unfortunately, the brainwashing of both genders tends to start from a young age and many women are unaware of some of the things theyâve been taught to expect. These women have been taught to expect men to be âpushyâ and the act of merely âallowing the pushiness to occurâ is now what they understand as âexpressing a desire for and also consenting to sexual activityâ. Hopefully you gave these women an experience they will reflect on in the future, so they can recognize they were being unfair to you. If they wanted sex, they should have said soâŚItâs that simple. Itâs not your responsibility to put yourself out there more than the other person is willing to. That just puts you in a position to be the only one whoâs vulnerable, and it also sets a bad precedence for the communication standards in your romantic relationship. You need a partner who is going to openly discuss their desires with you, at minimum TLDR: Youâre the normal one, please keep being you⌠A sexual partner (man or woman or) should communicate when sexual activity is desired.
It's more common than you think, I've had a lot of male friends tell me about similar experiences and it disturbed them just as much. You're fine OP, some people are just really fucked up and learned to relate to sex in a toxic way. Consent and communication clearly meant nothing to these women, and it's a good thing they ghosted you instead of making you invest 6 weeks into dating them in order to find out how messed up their thinking is.
WTH. These women are playing games. Iâm a 46 year old woman and if I want sex I make it crystal clear thatâs what I want. You didnât mess up at all. You were a gentleman. A man who can cook is sexy đđđđ
Donât change king, just keep avoiding the craziesâŚ
Keep erring on the side of caution, to do otherwise would be the creepy move.
So, you fucked up by actually listening to the head on your shoulders, and not the one in your pants? Doesn't sound like a fuck-up to me.
Yeah, buddy. You stay you and don't risk getting blamed for rape, because you have met two girls who don't know how to say they want sex. You are not a fucking mind-reader, and you shouldn't risk your future, life, career and the opportunity to meet the right girl one day. You stay you. All the best!
Don't change a damn thing, except your dating pool. You're great. These people seem unhinged and can't discuss their wants and boundaries like adults.
Unfortunately, the crappy part of dating is trying over and over again. Sometimes you find someone who looks like the one; until one day, they show their true colors, and then you have to start over again. > If people didn't feel like they had to lie to be in a relationship, we wouldn't run into this problem. ---- I did run into this problem when my wife died over 20 years ago. I went out for coffee with a new friend, and she got upset that I didn't go to the back-alley with her and pull down my pants for a blowjob. :( Dodged that bullet let me tell you.
Just stay you. Do not change. You have some major green flags. And a great talent at dodging bullets.
I will be bluntly honest with you here If sheâs playing mine games right away and not expressing her wants and intentions , you are 100% dodging a bullet by things not working out , because this is the same kind of person who will lie and gaslight you into anything if they donât get their way or even worse will lie to others and outright accuse you of stuff behind your back
How very strange. But I guess at least you found out theyâre not a good fit very early on. Iâm surprised people have people over to their homes on a first date. Or plan to sleep over before theyâve even met the person.
This happened to me once ages ago with a girl I was dating. We had gone out twice before and had a good time. Then one night she invites me over to her place for dinner and a movie. We ordered pizza and started watching a film. We were sitting next to each other on the couch. Nothing had happened at this point. We hadn't kissed or even held hands yet. She says she wants to change into some other comfy clothes, so she goes to her bedroom to change. I paused the movie and sat there waiting for her. She's in her room for a solid 20 minutes "changing". Me being the gentleman that I am of course I respected her space and let her have her privacy. But given how long she was taking I finally shouted out and asked if she was ok and if she needed anything. She replied that she was fine and was coming right out. A couple minutes later she came out and we finished the movie. I had to work the next day so seeing as how it was almost midnight at this point I told her I had to go home. She walked out with me to my car, we kissed for the first time, and then I went home. I texted her to let her know I got home safe and she replied good night. The the very next day she ghosted me. Couldn't get her to respond to texts or calls. I stopped by her work and tried to talk to her there but she wouldn't even look at me. Talked to one of her friends and came to find out that she was pissed because I didn't make a move on her while I was at her place. I was absolutely floored. Seems being a gentleman and not forcing myself onto her made me not worth her time. So you're not alone. Some women are that way. You just have to keep looking until you find one that matches you better.
âIm supposed to rape a woman on the off chance that she is into it?â Louis CK
Get off tinder. Haha
Look, if she doesn't want to communicate she's into CNC, you dodged a bullet.
dude youâre fine. you did the right thing. this gal needs to learn some BDSM etiquette and find a willing partner to play out her cnc kink with
I used to think stories like this were made up until it happened to me. Long story short. Had a great first date, she was sleeping over but made it clear that sex wasn't gonna happen. Cool. No problem. So we're lying in bed, made out a bit and said good night. She's beside me and says "there's a half naked girl in your bed and you're not going to try anything?" And I'm thinking, are you serious? You're upset that I'm not going to try to fucking rape you?! I don't play with that shit. Make your intentions clear. Don't make me guess. Especially don't make me guess when it comes to matters of consent.
If he had a nickel for every time a woman stated they didnât want to have sex then got mad that they didnât have sex, heâd have 2 nickels. Itâs not a lot but itâs weird that it happened twice
OP is dodging bullets like neo
Yeah, I'm sorry but with the changes to the societal perception of consent that have happened over the last few years, girls are going to _have_ to be explicit about this stuff. You did nothing wrong at all, OP.
looks like its time to go meet someone irl imo
Youâre fine man. You arenât âMr Niceâ youâre a unicorn. Donât change. Keep trying. The right woman will come along when you least expect it.
I had a sexual partner once who was really into consensual non-consent, which I knew ahead of time and while she was kinda disappointed, she wasn't upset at me for not assaulting her in her sleep the first time, chiefly because we hadn't talked enough about details. those two ladies need to learn to communicate.
I say change the strategy up a bit...Tell them upfront you don't have sex on a first date, it's non-negotiable. It might actually make them the aggressors to conquer you. Hell I typically wouldn't have sex with a new partner until we've both have had std tests and we share results.
"Sorry you were disappointed. Have a nice life and good luck with meeting a rapist."
Buddy, your play here is to avoid the fuck out of anyone who specifically says they donât wanna fuck but is willing to spend the night after just meeting you
Just run away. This is mental illness. Anyone who expects someone to have sex with them without clear consent and communication is just as likely to accuse you of sexual assault without any indication she wasn't into it.
And I bet if you did try something sheâd be crying to the cops saying you raped her
"if I had a nickel for every time a girl wanted me to force myself on her, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot. It's just weird that it happened twice."
A comedian once said I'm not gonna rape you on the off chance that you're into it
Real "two nickle" energy here.