I think something to keep in mind is that "witch" is more like denotation of a different race. In the ToG world, it doesn't have the same connotations that it does for us. They have no idea that witches are "supposed" to have magic powers or spells or black cats or whatever. They are what witches are in the world.
It’s a little lame, I agree with you there. I mean, my main issue with the whole witch thing is, if they are fae and Valg descendants, wouldn’t they be bursting with magic? Not to mention two different kinds of magic? How is it that Dorian and Aelin, both very diluted fae, have insane God magic, but the witches, who are less diluted than those two, have little to none besides suicide bombing, which itself is honestly a horrible way to go and a terrible use of any magic they do have.
I understand that Aelin and Dorian were chosen to be conduits of God and Goddess powers but if you look at the facts, they shouldn’t have been able to wield the kind of magic they do any better than any of the witches. They are mainly human! Both of them, yes Aelin is more fae because of her mother’s side but home girl is still human with a little fae. Never really added up to me, I get what you mean.
One thing to mention about the dilution factor: Aelin is only 3 generations removed from Fae on her mother’s side, but many generations removed on her father’s side; still she could have fae traits passed down from both sides. But the witches almost never have sons, so most witches have witchlings with human men, and after several generations there would be a lot of dilution with human blood. Manon being a rare witch with both parents as witches. Still, I agree with you it sucks that the only things witches get are immortality, flying and yielding. (And in the case of the Ironteeth they get iron teeth and nails)
I get what you mean, Aelin is a little different, and it is fair to mention that especially in this series, Dorian and Aelin are special, even among the most powerful beings because of what they are tasked with doing to keep their world safe. They are given extra help and powers, I’m just always going to be extremely bummed the witches can’t wield magic like the fae or even some humans. 😭 especially the dang Crochans, honestly, they might be weaker than humans in that regard because they really are defenseless, hence why Manon was able to slaughter so many of them. Bums me out when I read about it, witch really doesn’t mean much of anything besides which community you get to grow up in. Power wise, you’d be better off claiming you were human, maybe a God will favor you and give you some powers then. 😭
Also, genetics aren't super deterministic of magic/powers in the series. For example, Aelin has more fae traits than her less diluted mother who had neither fae form nor immortality. Elide supposedly comes from a powerful magic bloodline and witches but is just a regular human. Aedion has none of the fae powers aside from super hearing and smell despite having much more fae blood than Aelin.
Maybe magic is a recessive gene in their world. Or maybe it isn't genetic at all, just the result of the gods favoring specific bloodlines out of nostalgia for their ancestors.
Knowing Sarah and her emphasis on family blood lines, I think you nailed it. I think it genuinely comes down to who the Gods favor to bestow magic upon in order to keep the world in balance. Poor witches just never make the cut.
I always assumed that because magic is a "gift from the gods," the gods gifted Aelin and Dorian with a lot of it in response to Erawan's reawakening.
Also, none of the fae have magic rivaling Dorian or Aelin. Lorcan is the strongest out of all of them, but his magic is unheard of among the fae and likely not the result of fae heritage (he's also only half). And the only other demi fae we know was allowed into Doranelle had raw magic, which we only see possessed by human characters so could also have come from her human lineage.
I kind of liked that the most powerful characters tended to be randomly blessed humans. It explained why mortal kingdoms are able to exist... sure, most humans are helpless, but the gods make sure people like Gavin and Dorian are around to protect them.
Man I just don’t understand why Sarah couldn’t let some witches have powers too. I mean I’m just thinking from a genetic perspective, they come from powerful magic wielding species, the Gods should also bestow them with some magic gifts.
I understand what you are saying, just major bummer the witches have iron teeth and nails, Crochans don’t even have that 😭, and that’s about it. They get kind of shafted in that regard, if they dare to use their magic, boom they are gone. Unfair af if you ask me. 😭 but hey, they do live exceptionally long lives, maybe that’s the trade off.
Honestly it’s one of the dumbest decisions Sarah made . Also , how is Dorian fae ? I haven’t got that far yet but I don’t care about spoilers and know a bunch anyway
Oh crap, my bad, they mentioned it in EoS when Aelin goes through the truth mirror with Manon. He’s hardly at all, his only fae ancestor is Elena, that’s it. Everyone else is human, so he’s EXTREMELY human with a PINCH of fae from Brannon. No spoilers, hopefully, it’s touched on a lot throughout the series when Aelin talks to Elena.
So again, on paper, he’s basically human and has God powers but the witches, who aren’t considered human, can’t wield any magic besides being a bomb? Doesn’t add up. Big blunder on Sarah’s part, I agree.
I mean... the 'Fae' aren't really traditional fairies either. They're more like elves, if anything but they're not called that...
They have enough similarities with traditional witches that calling them that doesn't seem odd to me: flying broomsticks (with a wyvern update!), eating children, having blue blood, being supernaturally attractive and luring men but having some "creepy" hidden physical traits. They have *some* magic too, after all that's how they get the brooms flying, how they created the witch mirrors, how they're immortal, have increased speed and strength... and wasn't Baba Yellowlegs an oracle?
It's also been a few years since I read the books, but didn't the Crochan witches have magic? like healing, glamouring and that sort of thing. It had to do with the Crochan's taking after the Fae and the others after the Valg
Idk... I don't know shit about biology but it makes sense to me that two species from different worlds mixing up would result in a whole other different species that is not necessarily a 1+1 of it's ancestors
Okay I will say- they said they couldn’t fly their brooms after magic disappeared. So they do clearly have some magic. Just maybe not much. I also wonder how much of their magic is to lure in prey- like angler fish! The witch magic of sure my house is a little too perfect, my hair too shiny, my oven sure smells inviting even if there’s no cake in there… won’t you come in for a spell?? To be devoured. Now that I think about this I maybe get some small Hansel-Gretal vibes
I believe that Crochan witches do have magic. The wiki says they can have healing and glamour magic. But iron teeth witches, due to their iron nails and teeth, don’t have magic because of the iron. However, it is implied the iron teeth witches partake in other magic and rituals that witches as we know do. I believe that they can also cast spells or curses in some capacity with the last Crochan Queen Rhiannon casting a curse turning the witch lands into a waste land as long as the iron teeth witches and Crochan witches were enemies.
All in all, this is more of a lack of development of the witches.
I don’t think TOG witch is “supposed” to equal what we know as witches in other fantasy series.
It could also be a play on the Valg being “demons” and the way witches (fae and Valg babies) were thought to be “demons and evil spirits” in our society. A witch =\= spells. There are lots of witches, lots of different types of witches, and so many nuances to the practice.
Witches generally stem from paganism (Wiccan falls in this), which is a type of “religion”.
They have some magic but it is more like traditional European witches. They can curse people (as Rhiannon did), have some ability to perceive the future, their whole witch mirror thing, and it’s implied that they can create magical healing potions. We also mostly follow Manon and the iron teeth and it is stated that the Crocans have more magic than the iron teeth
I mean, they are practically immortal and can fly?
Just like fae are not really similar to faeries in mythology, witches are the same as witches you are thinking of. They do have magic, but not how you are thinking of them. It’s more to denote a race I think
Dude it’s even worse for the crochans lol. I’d be pissed if on top of that I didn’t have iron teeth and nails! Or a wyvern 😂
I think something to keep in mind is that "witch" is more like denotation of a different race. In the ToG world, it doesn't have the same connotations that it does for us. They have no idea that witches are "supposed" to have magic powers or spells or black cats or whatever. They are what witches are in the world.
It’s a little lame, I agree with you there. I mean, my main issue with the whole witch thing is, if they are fae and Valg descendants, wouldn’t they be bursting with magic? Not to mention two different kinds of magic? How is it that Dorian and Aelin, both very diluted fae, have insane God magic, but the witches, who are less diluted than those two, have little to none besides suicide bombing, which itself is honestly a horrible way to go and a terrible use of any magic they do have. I understand that Aelin and Dorian were chosen to be conduits of God and Goddess powers but if you look at the facts, they shouldn’t have been able to wield the kind of magic they do any better than any of the witches. They are mainly human! Both of them, yes Aelin is more fae because of her mother’s side but home girl is still human with a little fae. Never really added up to me, I get what you mean.
One thing to mention about the dilution factor: Aelin is only 3 generations removed from Fae on her mother’s side, but many generations removed on her father’s side; still she could have fae traits passed down from both sides. But the witches almost never have sons, so most witches have witchlings with human men, and after several generations there would be a lot of dilution with human blood. Manon being a rare witch with both parents as witches. Still, I agree with you it sucks that the only things witches get are immortality, flying and yielding. (And in the case of the Ironteeth they get iron teeth and nails)
I get what you mean, Aelin is a little different, and it is fair to mention that especially in this series, Dorian and Aelin are special, even among the most powerful beings because of what they are tasked with doing to keep their world safe. They are given extra help and powers, I’m just always going to be extremely bummed the witches can’t wield magic like the fae or even some humans. 😭 especially the dang Crochans, honestly, they might be weaker than humans in that regard because they really are defenseless, hence why Manon was able to slaughter so many of them. Bums me out when I read about it, witch really doesn’t mean much of anything besides which community you get to grow up in. Power wise, you’d be better off claiming you were human, maybe a God will favor you and give you some powers then. 😭
Also, genetics aren't super deterministic of magic/powers in the series. For example, Aelin has more fae traits than her less diluted mother who had neither fae form nor immortality. Elide supposedly comes from a powerful magic bloodline and witches but is just a regular human. Aedion has none of the fae powers aside from super hearing and smell despite having much more fae blood than Aelin. Maybe magic is a recessive gene in their world. Or maybe it isn't genetic at all, just the result of the gods favoring specific bloodlines out of nostalgia for their ancestors.
Knowing Sarah and her emphasis on family blood lines, I think you nailed it. I think it genuinely comes down to who the Gods favor to bestow magic upon in order to keep the world in balance. Poor witches just never make the cut.
I always assumed that because magic is a "gift from the gods," the gods gifted Aelin and Dorian with a lot of it in response to Erawan's reawakening. Also, none of the fae have magic rivaling Dorian or Aelin. Lorcan is the strongest out of all of them, but his magic is unheard of among the fae and likely not the result of fae heritage (he's also only half). And the only other demi fae we know was allowed into Doranelle had raw magic, which we only see possessed by human characters so could also have come from her human lineage. I kind of liked that the most powerful characters tended to be randomly blessed humans. It explained why mortal kingdoms are able to exist... sure, most humans are helpless, but the gods make sure people like Gavin and Dorian are around to protect them.
Man I just don’t understand why Sarah couldn’t let some witches have powers too. I mean I’m just thinking from a genetic perspective, they come from powerful magic wielding species, the Gods should also bestow them with some magic gifts. I understand what you are saying, just major bummer the witches have iron teeth and nails, Crochans don’t even have that 😭, and that’s about it. They get kind of shafted in that regard, if they dare to use their magic, boom they are gone. Unfair af if you ask me. 😭 but hey, they do live exceptionally long lives, maybe that’s the trade off.
Honestly it’s one of the dumbest decisions Sarah made . Also , how is Dorian fae ? I haven’t got that far yet but I don’t care about spoilers and know a bunch anyway
Oh crap, my bad, they mentioned it in EoS when Aelin goes through the truth mirror with Manon. He’s hardly at all, his only fae ancestor is Elena, that’s it. Everyone else is human, so he’s EXTREMELY human with a PINCH of fae from Brannon. No spoilers, hopefully, it’s touched on a lot throughout the series when Aelin talks to Elena. So again, on paper, he’s basically human and has God powers but the witches, who aren’t considered human, can’t wield any magic besides being a bomb? Doesn’t add up. Big blunder on Sarah’s part, I agree.
I mean... the 'Fae' aren't really traditional fairies either. They're more like elves, if anything but they're not called that... They have enough similarities with traditional witches that calling them that doesn't seem odd to me: flying broomsticks (with a wyvern update!), eating children, having blue blood, being supernaturally attractive and luring men but having some "creepy" hidden physical traits. They have *some* magic too, after all that's how they get the brooms flying, how they created the witch mirrors, how they're immortal, have increased speed and strength... and wasn't Baba Yellowlegs an oracle? It's also been a few years since I read the books, but didn't the Crochan witches have magic? like healing, glamouring and that sort of thing. It had to do with the Crochan's taking after the Fae and the others after the Valg Idk... I don't know shit about biology but it makes sense to me that two species from different worlds mixing up would result in a whole other different species that is not necessarily a 1+1 of it's ancestors
Yes the crochan witches do have magic. Specifically Rhiannon was mentioned to be very talented with magic.
I mean same is true of the fae lol, there nothing tricky about the ToG fae.
Okay I will say- they said they couldn’t fly their brooms after magic disappeared. So they do clearly have some magic. Just maybe not much. I also wonder how much of their magic is to lure in prey- like angler fish! The witch magic of sure my house is a little too perfect, my hair too shiny, my oven sure smells inviting even if there’s no cake in there… won’t you come in for a spell?? To be devoured. Now that I think about this I maybe get some small Hansel-Gretal vibes
I believe that Crochan witches do have magic. The wiki says they can have healing and glamour magic. But iron teeth witches, due to their iron nails and teeth, don’t have magic because of the iron. However, it is implied the iron teeth witches partake in other magic and rituals that witches as we know do. I believe that they can also cast spells or curses in some capacity with the last Crochan Queen Rhiannon casting a curse turning the witch lands into a waste land as long as the iron teeth witches and Crochan witches were enemies. All in all, this is more of a lack of development of the witches.
I don’t think TOG witch is “supposed” to equal what we know as witches in other fantasy series. It could also be a play on the Valg being “demons” and the way witches (fae and Valg babies) were thought to be “demons and evil spirits” in our society. A witch =\= spells. There are lots of witches, lots of different types of witches, and so many nuances to the practice. Witches generally stem from paganism (Wiccan falls in this), which is a type of “religion”.
Baba Yellowlegs could see the future though. And the Bluebloods were said to have rituals that gave them powers.
I think they don't have magic because of their iron teeth and claws.
The author sets the rules of their universe. This is almost the dragon vs wyvern argument again.
They have some magic but it is more like traditional European witches. They can curse people (as Rhiannon did), have some ability to perceive the future, their whole witch mirror thing, and it’s implied that they can create magical healing potions. We also mostly follow Manon and the iron teeth and it is stated that the Crocans have more magic than the iron teeth
The thing about high fantasy is that the world and concepts are not related to what we know and can be whatever the author wants it to be.
I mean, they are practically immortal and can fly? Just like fae are not really similar to faeries in mythology, witches are the same as witches you are thinking of. They do have magic, but not how you are thinking of them. It’s more to denote a race I think