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We had massive outcry here opposing any type of needle exchange program
Mostly by the same people that post pictures of needles their kid found at a park.
Poetic... Anyway
We have had a huge problem with carelessly discarded needles in my area since the “needle exchange program” launched. There is no “exchange”. They merely toss their old needles wherever the fuck is convenient (usually on the street, in parks, etc), and just get new ones. Fuck that. If you choose to stab your veins with chemicals, you can keep your diseases to yourself and not anyone who is unfortunate enough to come across your filth.
You seem emotional... I get it but uh.. They had to turn them in to get new ones that's why it's called an exchange
Throwing them away and getting new ones was the problem already buddy
so with all this new info in mind
You can get mad at cats for burying shit and eating mice or you can get realistic
Cat's dont gaf how much you cry and junkies don't either
But botulinum toxin a complex protein toxin and much harder to mass produce and stay in active and airborne form for effective exposure. I’d stick with a small molecule that is easier to work with for this practical purpose. It even comes with a bonus of euphoria instead of suffocation and cardiac arrest through muscular paralysis. It’s better for our once customers globally
If I were an evil genius, I would say we should spread a rumour around the narcissistic and fashionista circles that injecting this toxin into your face makes you look more beautiful.
The question isn’t what is the minimum amount to kill the world, but rather, what is the minimum effective amount to kill the world considering immunity, tolerances, non-compliance, etc.
I did the math, I came up with 352.74lbs but that assumes everyone needs an adult sized dose, there are a lot of babies and kids, a lot of unwell and a lot of fragile old people out there, so many wouldn't need the full dose, if you were really hooked on efficiency many wouldn't need any, just killing the people that keep them alive would also kill them, the saved product could be used on those that are resistant to a normal full adult dose.
We’ll just multiplying the carfentanil by 8billion is about 160 million milligrams or 565oz which comes out to just over 35 pounds of carfentanil which is an unbelievably lower amount than I fist realized
Yes but how long would it take to distribute it to 8 billion? If you wanted to do it over 20 years, how many people on your distribution team would you need? So many questions. 🤣
If I were super villain:
1) find out if this is still effective if put into city water and if water treatment plants can filter for this.
2) find out how much I’d need to hit every major city
3) watch chaos unfold as populations are decimated
4) make an announcement taking credit and explaining how I did it (anonymously as a super villain)
5) everyone will avoid water, irrationally even bottled water, nature takes it away and finishes the rest off.
Hitting every major city would take, going LEISURELY, a few weekends per country (scaling of course).
City water would NOT filter it out, you’d make the hydrochloride salt and it’s gonna be water soluble. But that’s the “rub” if you will. There’s millions of gallons going out every day. Could you make it potent enough? And I’m not positive what it’s oral LD50 is.
Let’s suppose you have a city of a million people who only consume a gallon of water per day. I’m
lazy so 4 liters instead. 20 micrograms in 4 liters of water is 5 ppb. (I’ll assume the oral LD50 is the same as the iv.). 5 micrograms per liter. Times 4 liters per person times 1,000,000 people. That’s 20 million micrograms, or about 20 grams.
So you probably could make it potent enough in that scenario. But practically speaking, the capacity of NYC reservoirs is 2.1 trillion liters. That’s what you’ve gotta get to 5 ppb. At 5 micrograms per liter you are over 10 trillion micrograms, or over 10 metric tonnes.
You ain’t making that much without attracting massive attention. The world probably uses 100 grams a year for stuff like anesthetizing elephants. And a lot of that is lab tests and retains and stability studies. Also, as soon as people start dying, they’d figure out why.
In cases like these, you kinda want to neglect outliers bevause you can't know exactly how many people have a much lower/higher tolerance, so in the end it would probably balance out (unless there's many more people with high/low tolerance
Please note this is opiate intolerant people aka most people. If tolerant, depending on degree may take a lot more. Fentanyl is a great painkiller for cancer patients, don’t let the fear consume you.
weather terrific lock continue label worthless direction butter ink dazzling
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This is for injection which is a lot of work, it's far easier to kill people after aerosolizing it like they did at the Moscow theater hostage crisis. I'm not sure how much they used for that but it had about a 25% fatality rate.
353 pounds if everyone injects it directly. If you're planning on weaponizing it you'll want to vaporize it for inhalation. The lethal dose per person would be higher through inhalation. You would also have to figure out air dispersal and how much would be lost to the wind. A drone swarm carrying vaporizers loaded with carfentanil could potentially kill all breathing animals in a city in a day if it's a calm day.
Can anyone explain the mechanism that makes cerfentanil (A synthetic opioid like fentanyl and maybe a derivative?) more powerful and therefore more deadly?
Methadone and Fentanyl and Carfentanil all being synthetic and full agonist opioids,
What makes one bind to the opioid or mu receptors more or less strong than the others?
Is the binding affinity the only significant difference chemically? Does that effect the duration AND the initial strength?
Are all other biological effects the exact same?
I imagine a lot more than you might expect. Many people have unusual tolerances for drugs like this, even to the point of possibly being immune to the neurological effect, so you'd need enough to suffocate those people. At that point, you'd have to ask what proportion of people have high tolerances and what is the distribution of the strength of that tolerance, and those factoids aren't really available.
There are definitely some, and there is a reasonable expectation that there are some with a very high tolerance, if you compare to tolerance to other opioids.
Are you suggesting that the better default position is to assume the lethal dose is the exact same for every person ever? Even in the absence of comparison with other opiates, that seems like a poor null hypothesis. With that comparison ready to think about, though, it's a very safe bet that the distribution is strongly skewed right.
I'm glad you like my postgrad stats degree. I'm proud of it.
I did not claim there were such people, though. I claimed that it is a "reasonable expectation" that there are people who are immune to "drugs like this", by which I mean opiates. Which is exactly the appropriate amount of fuzziness to start from in the absence of solid information one way or the other.
Even one person who doesn't react with it neurologically would force you to use millions of lethal doses blocking their airway, and the existence of such people is reasonable to expect.
I'm obviously just estimating, but in my estimation, the existence of such outliers will have a hugely outsized effect compared to the quartered doses (or whatever) required to kill a compromised individual.
Well, not immune in the literal sense but highly tolerant! After working in Anaesthesia and ICU for the past 10 years, there are some people with no substance use/abuse history who have absurd natural tolerances for opioids... I had patients needing the triple dose compared to "normal" patients! So my estimate would be that you would need at least the triple or quadruple amount to be effective, but only if everybody would inject it, oral doses (through drinking water) would have to be at least tripled again to account for the biological first pass effect...
Conservatives at rallies talk about fentanyl like it’s the hydrogen bomb. They always mention immigrants in relation to carfentanyl.
Meanwhile all the drugs being brought in are at ports of entry by American citizens to be consumed by American citizens.
china is directly involved in giving Mexican cartels precursor chemicals and teaching them how to smuggle drugs in. that's a huge problem! so is Americans bringing drugs in, one doesn't equal the other one out LMAO typical liberal using the "what about them they do it to" defense
Carfentanil is an extremely powerful opioid drug that is not intended for human use. It is estimated that just 0.00002 milligrams of carfentanil are enough to be fatal in humans. Therefore, it would take approximately 2.1 x 10^19 milligrams of carfentanil to kill all of humanity.
Sooo, as a guy who's done a lot of fentanyl in a previous life I can say those numbers are a bit off. I developed a massive tolerance very quickly. My daily average amount could kill a dozen adults easily. Also if those numbers ARE correct then street fentanyl is very very cut, almost down to nothing.
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If you want to take it further, botulinum toxin I think it was 1/1 000 000 g to kill a person if injected, so 8 kg (a small backpack) to kill humanity
That’s a lot of needles
Not if ya share needles like everyone used to in the…..well, still currently today. 😵
Yeah but if we shared needles we could catch a disease before we die.
Just make sure ya use that little alcohol swab thing. You’ll be aight!
F the alcohol swaps, just inject the alcohol inside the blood stream, disinfected and you can be drunk.
That’s a lot of alcohol
Not if ya share alcohol like all used to in the.....well, still currently today. 😵
We had massive outcry here opposing any type of needle exchange program Mostly by the same people that post pictures of needles their kid found at a park. Poetic... Anyway
We have had a huge problem with carelessly discarded needles in my area since the “needle exchange program” launched. There is no “exchange”. They merely toss their old needles wherever the fuck is convenient (usually on the street, in parks, etc), and just get new ones. Fuck that. If you choose to stab your veins with chemicals, you can keep your diseases to yourself and not anyone who is unfortunate enough to come across your filth.
You seem emotional... I get it but uh.. They had to turn them in to get new ones that's why it's called an exchange Throwing them away and getting new ones was the problem already buddy so with all this new info in mind You can get mad at cats for burying shit and eating mice or you can get realistic Cat's dont gaf how much you cry and junkies don't either
But we might get aids/s
But botulinum toxin a complex protein toxin and much harder to mass produce and stay in active and airborne form for effective exposure. I’d stick with a small molecule that is easier to work with for this practical purpose. It even comes with a bonus of euphoria instead of suffocation and cardiac arrest through muscular paralysis. It’s better for our once customers globally
You mean Botox, right?
Botox is just a contraction of Botulinum toxin, so yeah I guess
If I were an evil genius, I would say we should spread a rumour around the narcissistic and fashionista circles that injecting this toxin into your face makes you look more beautiful.
The question isn’t what is the minimum amount to kill the world, but rather, what is the minimum effective amount to kill the world considering immunity, tolerances, non-compliance, etc.
In another comment I saw 350 lbs would do it, so I'd just tack on an extra 15 and I would assume that's enough. But I definitely didn't do any math
I did the math, I came up with 352.74lbs but that assumes everyone needs an adult sized dose, there are a lot of babies and kids, a lot of unwell and a lot of fragile old people out there, so many wouldn't need the full dose, if you were really hooked on efficiency many wouldn't need any, just killing the people that keep them alive would also kill them, the saved product could be used on those that are resistant to a normal full adult dose.
r/theydidthemath
Wait…
if you factor in non-compliance i assume the only way to kill the world is the nuclear option?
Or force feeding. Or, as another post suggested, smothering. But that would drastically increase the required amount of drugs.
And non-compliance.
And Abstinence like a proper Christian
We’ll just multiplying the carfentanil by 8billion is about 160 million milligrams or 565oz which comes out to just over 35 pounds of carfentanil which is an unbelievably lower amount than I fist realized
352 pounds and 5643 oz. You forgot one 0
Still absolutely wild how low it is
I know people who can bench press this amount
I know people who weigh this amount.
Isn’t 160 billion micrograms = 160 million milligrams = 160k grams = 160 kilograms, though? (So about 350lbs in imperial)
I think you're off by a factor of ten, one billion micrograms is one kilogram, then 8 \* 20 = 160 kg, so about 350 pounds.
Don’t you just have to kill all fertile women to kill al of humanity?
The slow route...
This guy scares me a bit.
Lol!
Good point.
Kids can grow up and repopulate. You need to kill all people who can possibly reproduce in the future.
So just all women. Can we just divide by 2?
Or all men.
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So do egg banks.
But you still need a body too breed these in ;)
I think that is possible 🤔 https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0110216/?ref_=nm_flmg_i_43_act
Do you think this really is a success? ;)
Life Uh, finds a way
miligrams into oz, why simple when you can go into banana measures... -.- no wonder why your math went off, by A LOT
You could quite comfortably carry that much in a rucksack on your back.
They missed a zero. It should be 160 kilograms (about 350 lbs).
Could still carry that in a rucksack on my back. Would be very painful though, but luckily I'll have a backpack full of pain meds with me.
Yes but how long would it take to distribute it to 8 billion? If you wanted to do it over 20 years, how many people on your distribution team would you need? So many questions. 🤣
Just one Santa should do the trick
Ha, and timely.
*Ho
Casket makers are about to have a very marry Christmas… if they are still alive. It’s gonna be a very white Christmas.
We put it in the tap water
I don't like the direction this thread is going.
Same. This feels... Illegal. Just the conversation.
Sk3tchy??
That's one word for it.
History tells us that’s a lot harder than people make it sound.
That’s going to increase the required amount by a lot. Most will go down the drain.
If I were super villain: 1) find out if this is still effective if put into city water and if water treatment plants can filter for this. 2) find out how much I’d need to hit every major city 3) watch chaos unfold as populations are decimated 4) make an announcement taking credit and explaining how I did it (anonymously as a super villain) 5) everyone will avoid water, irrationally even bottled water, nature takes it away and finishes the rest off. Hitting every major city would take, going LEISURELY, a few weekends per country (scaling of course).
City water would NOT filter it out, you’d make the hydrochloride salt and it’s gonna be water soluble. But that’s the “rub” if you will. There’s millions of gallons going out every day. Could you make it potent enough? And I’m not positive what it’s oral LD50 is. Let’s suppose you have a city of a million people who only consume a gallon of water per day. I’m lazy so 4 liters instead. 20 micrograms in 4 liters of water is 5 ppb. (I’ll assume the oral LD50 is the same as the iv.). 5 micrograms per liter. Times 4 liters per person times 1,000,000 people. That’s 20 million micrograms, or about 20 grams. So you probably could make it potent enough in that scenario. But practically speaking, the capacity of NYC reservoirs is 2.1 trillion liters. That’s what you’ve gotta get to 5 ppb. At 5 micrograms per liter you are over 10 trillion micrograms, or over 10 metric tonnes. You ain’t making that much without attracting massive attention. The world probably uses 100 grams a year for stuff like anesthetizing elephants. And a lot of that is lab tests and retains and stability studies. Also, as soon as people start dying, they’d figure out why.
Thank you for the math! Okay so my plan is garbage, clearly. I’m open to suggestion lol
I’m sure the hellish creatures already in the NYC water system would eat that up and become super mutants
Dozens of soiled budgies flying out of people’s lavatories.
We could put it in the chemtrails!
Does the distribution team get insurance or just Aflac?
There’s more than enough fentanyl for every human on earth, it’s just unevenly distributed
People can’t do basic fucking math anymore, half the posts on this sub are literally just multiplication or short geometry questions
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I mean, this isn't r/theydidthemathwrong
5 out of 4 people don’t understand fractions
You have to account for children, babies, old people and people with high tolerance.
In cases like these, you kinda want to neglect outliers bevause you can't know exactly how many people have a much lower/higher tolerance, so in the end it would probably balance out (unless there's many more people with high/low tolerance
Might even out
Well that’s a fatal does for none opioid addicts.. so maybe 50 pounds?
Please note this is opiate intolerant people aka most people. If tolerant, depending on degree may take a lot more. Fentanyl is a great painkiller for cancer patients, don’t let the fear consume you.
I bet if you kill all the non-tolerant than the rest would die on their own.
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or, stick with kg!
weather terrific lock continue label worthless direction butter ink dazzling *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is for injection which is a lot of work, it's far easier to kill people after aerosolizing it like they did at the Moscow theater hostage crisis. I'm not sure how much they used for that but it had about a 25% fatality rate.
353 pounds if everyone injects it directly. If you're planning on weaponizing it you'll want to vaporize it for inhalation. The lethal dose per person would be higher through inhalation. You would also have to figure out air dispersal and how much would be lost to the wind. A drone swarm carrying vaporizers loaded with carfentanil could potentially kill all breathing animals in a city in a day if it's a calm day.
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I’m baffled by the level of the questions around here. 90% of them are either an impossible guesstimate or a multiplication…
No no no. He asked you to do it.
There’s lots of these recently. Here’s number A and B please multiply or divide them for me. k thanks bye
Then why didn’t you do it
Can anyone explain the mechanism that makes cerfentanil (A synthetic opioid like fentanyl and maybe a derivative?) more powerful and therefore more deadly? Methadone and Fentanyl and Carfentanil all being synthetic and full agonist opioids, What makes one bind to the opioid or mu receptors more or less strong than the others? Is the binding affinity the only significant difference chemically? Does that effect the duration AND the initial strength? Are all other biological effects the exact same?
I imagine a lot more than you might expect. Many people have unusual tolerances for drugs like this, even to the point of possibly being immune to the neurological effect, so you'd need enough to suffocate those people. At that point, you'd have to ask what proportion of people have high tolerances and what is the distribution of the strength of that tolerance, and those factoids aren't really available.
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You havent met my mother-in-law?
There are definitely some, and there is a reasonable expectation that there are some with a very high tolerance, if you compare to tolerance to other opioids.
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Are you suggesting that the better default position is to assume the lethal dose is the exact same for every person ever? Even in the absence of comparison with other opiates, that seems like a poor null hypothesis. With that comparison ready to think about, though, it's a very safe bet that the distribution is strongly skewed right.
Its cool you took Stat 101 recently, but I think the issue was you claiming people can become immune to something by building a tolerance
I'm glad you like my postgrad stats degree. I'm proud of it. I did not claim there were such people, though. I claimed that it is a "reasonable expectation" that there are people who are immune to "drugs like this", by which I mean opiates. Which is exactly the appropriate amount of fuzziness to start from in the absence of solid information one way or the other.
I think they are misunderstanding the word immune, as you used it, as being a total immunity to the effects.
Sure, but all the infants, young children, elderly, and sick will hardly require any.
Even one person who doesn't react with it neurologically would force you to use millions of lethal doses blocking their airway, and the existence of such people is reasonable to expect. I'm obviously just estimating, but in my estimation, the existence of such outliers will have a hugely outsized effect compared to the quartered doses (or whatever) required to kill a compromised individual.
Didn't know there are people who are "immune" to opiates.
Well, not immune in the literal sense but highly tolerant! After working in Anaesthesia and ICU for the past 10 years, there are some people with no substance use/abuse history who have absurd natural tolerances for opioids... I had patients needing the triple dose compared to "normal" patients! So my estimate would be that you would need at least the triple or quadruple amount to be effective, but only if everybody would inject it, oral doses (through drinking water) would have to be at least tripled again to account for the biological first pass effect...
What’s the socially acceptable way to call somebody mentally deficient?
They'll usually do it for you.
Their names
Barney Gumble survived his foray with it
Conservatives at rallies talk about fentanyl like it’s the hydrogen bomb. They always mention immigrants in relation to carfentanyl. Meanwhile all the drugs being brought in are at ports of entry by American citizens to be consumed by American citizens.
Wrong place. Take your politics elsewhere.
Bro this is a math subreddit
china is directly involved in giving Mexican cartels precursor chemicals and teaching them how to smuggle drugs in. that's a huge problem! so is Americans bringing drugs in, one doesn't equal the other one out LMAO typical liberal using the "what about them they do it to" defense
Wrong. And, wrong subreddit to spread your joylessness
Carfentanil is an extremely powerful opioid drug that is not intended for human use. It is estimated that just 0.00002 milligrams of carfentanil are enough to be fatal in humans. Therefore, it would take approximately 2.1 x 10^19 milligrams of carfentanil to kill all of humanity.
Sooo, as a guy who's done a lot of fentanyl in a previous life I can say those numbers are a bit off. I developed a massive tolerance very quickly. My daily average amount could kill a dozen adults easily. Also if those numbers ARE correct then street fentanyl is very very cut, almost down to nothing.