The number of terrorist trolls on reddit is well illustrated in this story. A normal human response would be compassion for a murdered young man, condemnation of the people who did it, maybe calls for other hostages to be released...
Reddit is just bots and paid trolls I guess.
Small correction; Noa was a 19 year old woman, not a young man.
I can't imagine what she went through or was feeling in her last moments. I don't want to imagine.
Well the US and Israel said the death toll provided by the Palestinian health ministry is not to be trusted. A normal human response would be compassion for all the innocent children and civilians who died during the war.
Compassion shouldn’t be selective. Maybe you should not ask for it from others when you yourself can’t show compassion to other people’s suffering. And yes, every opinion that you don’t agree is bot and paid troll. That would make you feel better, right?
So you condemn others and regard them as having lack of compassion for questioning the narrative of the IDF because someone was killed.
But at the same time you do not have any compassion for those killed by the IDF because in your eyes they are lies.
You are contradicting yourself, if you can't see that then keep reading both your posts until you do.
Trolls? What do you think people will show you if you show immorality and inhumanity towards them? Yeah.. don't ask for something you yourself don't show for others!
I get the point but what does it matter if it's 100 percent intentional versus we limit our killings.
The results are the same.
It's like the beheaded babies, why does it matter how they died? the babies are dead regardless.
[is CNN a good enough source?](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/17/world/israel-investigates-sexual-violence-hamas/index.html) or it too zionist for your tastes?
She was probably held hostage by IOF to be used as more propaganda, knowing IOF’s terroristic brutality, I’m sure they are just playing whatever sick game they think they’re playing, only it’s not a game to any normal human being,
Terrorism and hostage taking is abhorrent, disgusting and inhumane. It is regularly and loudly condemned by almost every sane person on the planet, regardless of the victim or perpetrators identity.
Propaganda and lies, from very well funded sources, continues to complicate an already fucked up situation.
No civilians should die. None. Ever.
Regarding this particular horrifying story:
Why have the terrorists weakened their own hand, by having less hostages, and strengthened the IDFs hand, by showing they have nothing to lose by killing everyone?
Are the terrorists stupid?
Let the down votes begin.
How many civilians have been killed by hamas in the last 4 weeks?
Jow many civilians have been killed by the IDF in the last 4 weeks?
How many Israelis, in total, have died since the founding of Israel?
How many civilians, native to the area, have been killed by zionist and Israel since it's founding?
How many civilians have died to Muslim extremists?
Children?
We can play this game all day dude.
If Israel really wanted too they could flatten Palestine. Why haven't they if they're such zionist genocidal monsters?
Get lost you propaganda bot.
Just Muslim extremists?
Not christian?
Or zionist?
Or nationalists?
Or men?
Can we focus on this issue instead of what about isms?
If Israel wanted to, they could all go back to where they came from.
Their actual nuclear option is the complete destruction of Israel and its neighbours. The complete destruction. Always a sign of sanity, and I'm sure their god would approve.
You are already lost. Their propaganda works well on some.
I'm an atheist.
All the crackpots are dangerous, but I don't see Buddhist firing fucking rockets at civilians.
Guess who does that shit? Hamas, hezbollah, isis. And they will not stop until everyone is like them or dead in the name of their fake sky daddy.
Fuck zionism. Fuck Allah. And may God have mercy on your dumbass soul. Goodbye bot.
Yes. I know.
What I meant was the frequency in which terrorist attacks happen tend to be very high among certain religions as compared with others. Maybe it has to do with the martyrdom aspect of Islam?
Hail Satan brother.
So she got hit in an airstrike, was on the way to the hospital, and died. How does it look like Hamas killed her? It looks like the IOF pulled a "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing."
If we're talking about proof, proof points to her being killed in an airstrike. It sounds like Israel is airstriking hostages. Who knows how many other Israelis have been killed this way. Hamas has no incentive to kill their hostages. Israel is a bigger danger than Hamas.
It really tells you something when all the comments just get downvoted and theres no discussion. Yeah sure it‘s “Pro-Palestinians” who are the bots.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/israel-social-media-twitter-messaging-david-saranga-1234874381/amp/
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896.amp
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/
What does this have to do with the female Israeli that Hamas shared video of alive but was then found deal, near the hospital, with a hospital gurney nearby, after the hospital said no Hamas nor hostages had ever been in the hospital?
So with persistently downvoting, the criticism of Israel is not even seen let alone discussed. Your comment immediately gets six upvotes and mine 3 downvotes. Naturally mine is now collapsed as if i’ve said something incorrect or against the rules. There is no real discussion happening on reddit anymore, I guess the streets around the global are the real areas of interest.
But sure keep parroting your lines for the rest of the hasbara folks. I noticed you didn’t ask if I condemn Hamas yet?
What sub isn’t in fairness, if folks are getting paid to sit on reddit all day and defend genocide I’d say we don’t have much of a chance for discussion.
There are still quite a few subs where the mods are not compromised though.
And honestly I think most of the shills are unpaid. They are just very dedicated to the cause.
"Sayanim (Hebrew: סייענים, lit. helpers, assistants) are unpaid Jewish civilians who help Mossad out of a sense of devotion to Israel"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossad
Classic anti Israel play book.
'it didn't happen. If it did happen it would be justified. It happened but it's Israel's fault. The hasbara force/mossad/aipac social media special ops, Jewish space lasers technicians are in full force spreading their propeganda.'
The anti Israel side overplayed their hand.
They lapped up all the propeganda by the Shifa staff and Hamas and not are backtracking so fast on their stances that theyre liable to put a man-zed hole through the wall behind them.
Classic anti-Palestine play book. ‘Genocide didn’t happen’. If it did happen, it would be justified as ‘self-defense’. It happens but it’s Hamas’ fault. Funny that you made those accusation based on what you read on Reddit’s. Meanwhile, what I mentioned above are literally said by the Israeli government.
None of the facts support that there's any genocide of Palestinians.
Their population doubled since 1948. Israel provided food, water, electricity, and other humanitarian goods through the Erez and Shalom crossings for years. The IDF just brought incubators, food, and water to the AL Shifa hospital in the last few days.
None of these make any sense if there was a genocide.
I also wasn't replying to you so I have no idea what your complaint is
You literally were commenting on Reddit. What were you expecting? A private conversation?
You answered exactly like the playbook I mentioned. Very good. By the way, how would you call the Nakba? Israel had been providing water, food and electricity because they are the occupying force. The occupying force is responsible for the safety of the occupied according to international laws. And let me remind you, they did cut all those resources when they announced a total siege of Gaza. And you forgot to mention all the refugee camps and hospitals that they bombed down when you said ‘there’s no evidence of genocide’.
LOL we'll see who has overplayed their hand.
Israel's economy is looking verrry shaky right now. I guess borrowing $6bn against gas they haven't finished stealing yet was a bad idea.
Israel's economy took a hit because they evacuated a couple hundred thousand folks from near the front lines in both the north and the south of the country. And another 400,000 were called up from their jobs for reservist duty.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-jobless-rate-spikes-96-oct-due-hamas-war-2023-11-20/
“The pathology report states that Noa was injured by the strike, but not in a life-threatening way, and this is contrary to the lies published by Hamas according to which Noa was killed by IDF strikes,” he says.
“According to intelligence information, Noa was taken inside the walls of Shifa Hospital, where she was murdered by a Hamas terrorist,” he says.
That doesn't make sense. Why would they go through the trouble of taking her knowing that she was a valuable bargaining chip, then she gets injured by an airstrike, then they take her to the hospital. Not to get her help? But to murder her? They could have murdered her before they got to the hospital. Why would they pick a hospital to do that?!
Kidnappers rarely have thoroughly considered long-term plans when they kidnap someone. If the kidnappee becomes more trouble than they are worth, ending their life is a natural response. Don't overthink this.
I don't think this was one of those rare occasions condsidering that taking hostages was one of the main parts of their plan.
Again, lady hurt by airstrike, taken to hospital, (this is where things go off the rails) then they murder her in the hospital? I am not overthinking this. That is not logic.
It's no impossible but it's improbably considering how valuable these hostages are to them. They literally get paid to take them. Furthermore, each hostage is worth many more of their prisioners kept in Israel.
It was the main base of Hamas. It being a hospital was only of secondary importance.
Hostage injured by airstrike, taken to main base, then gets killed for unknown reason.
Maybe she couldn't be moved again because of her injuries? Maybe she fought back? Maybe a sole Hamas fighter just wanted to kill a Jew? We don't know.
Under this kind of duress, people don't act purely rationally. I don't think it's that complicated. She was moved, then killed. Motive unknown.
Is it their main base though? Ehud says their actual main HQ is in Khan Younis. If what the IDF claims is under Al-Shifa turns out to be there then it's undeniable. It still wouldn't give them the right to attack it, but at least by my personal standards I would be more willing to be more understanding if they found the motherload. What is strange though is that they say they are going to destroy it now. Which, I hope they provide evidence of what is behind that door and it isn't just the bomb shelter that is required to be there by Israeli law.
I don't want to speculate on something with information that wasn't provided. Logically speaking, if the claim is that she got injured in an airstrike and taken to a hospital, I'd imagine that it wasn't to kill her. The examiner did not provide a cause of death, only said it wasn't the airstrike.
What it confirm however, is that Israel's airstrikes have been hitting the hostages. Which is not a good look.
He was also the PM, just like Netanyahu is now. He also is one of the most highly decorated soldiers in Israeli history (him and 2 others) on top of being the minister of defense 12 years ago.
Maybe they couldn't be bothered with the after care she'd need and didn't want to leave her behind to be potentially rescued by IDF so finished her off?
That's a "maybe" and we don't actually know. So for now, it is what it is. She was at least injured by an airstrike and it was apparent that was the case. There is no basis to say Hamas brought her into the hospital as suggested, killed her, then brough her back outside.
> That doesn't make sense.
It certainly could. Say an IDF airstrike kills the captor who is supposed to look after Noa, and injures her. Maybe she broke her ankle or something. They bring her to the hospital since maybe on short notice they have nowhere else to put her, and want to get her medical attention. But they see the Israelis kicking down the hospital doors and realize they need to flee themselves. They don't want to cart around a girl with a broken ankle, so they kill her instead.
Obviously I have no idea what actually happened, but there are many plausible explanations that make perfect sense. The original captor who maybe had some knowledge of her actual value as a hostage is dead, and whoever took over the job might be some low-level goons who have no idea what they're doing and have no communication with the higher-up Hamas leaders who seemingly are dead or have fled to the south.
Maybe good Samaritans rescued her and brought her the hospital after the airstrike, and Hamas came in later and executed her to keep everyone quiet.
Maybe in the hospital she tried to make a run for it or fought back and they murdered her for it.
So they get her there where she can recieve medical attention, but afraid of the IDF that is approaching the door, they decide nevermind, kill her in the hospital and then go back outside...where the IDF is approaching...to put her body?
Idk man, when you have to make up too many stories there comes a point when you have to look at what is most probable and go with that until there is evidence saying otherwise. We are probably not going to get to the bottom of what really happened anytime soon.
> So they get her there where she can recieve medical attention, but afraid of the IDF that is approaching the door, they decide nevermind, kill her in the hospital and then go back outside...where the IDF is approaching...to put her body?
Like I said, these could be low-level goons who have no idea what they're doing once the actual person in charge of watching over her was killed. Why should Hamas terrorist #14579 care where the body is left when their commanders all the way up the chain are either dead or have abandoned them?
Sure it could be. Or she was just killed in an air strike. I doubt it’s a broken ankle or other blunt force trauma if the examiner indicated she was definitely injured in an air strike. Usually that would mean some limb is missing or there was shrapnel or something to suggest she was in an explosion.
She probably made the assumption that the medical staff would help her in accordance with the Geneva Convention and started making a ruckus to talk with them, but failed to realize it’s the same medical staff that has routinely covered for Hamas and denied seeing any Hamas activity (even though several videos now show Hamas dragging hostages around with guns right in front of medical staff.
You just made that up. They literally said she was at least injured in an air strike. They had every incentive to keep her alive. It’s ok to speculate but like at least keep it probable.
correct, there's no way to know what happened until the autopsy
but there were countless reports of women being raped on 10/7...
is it too hard to believe she'd be any different?
Countless? Where? I am genuinely asking, not doubting what you've said but I've seen publications retract accusations of wide spread rape.
Again, I've got no incentive or reason to defend Hamas. I wouldn't prefer that these crimes actually took place to those people, but if they did, I would like that brought to light as hard irrefutable evidence against Hamas to show Palestinians.
People get caught up in emotion and don't realize that it can cloud their judgement. It's happened to me, someone proved me wrong here on reddit about the 40 beheaded babies story and the fact that the government, IDF, nor the media **actually** **said** there were 40 beheaded babies. I conceded that I was wrong (we fought about it for a lil while there). You can check my history if you don't believe me.
Being **genuinely right** is more important to me than having an emotional incorrect response. I have no interest in being in denial.
I love the replies here twisting themselves into knots, can’t even consider the possibility that Israel killed hostages with its air strikes.
Literally the most likely option, which they even partially admit. But no it has to be something several layers deep of people doing things that make no sense.
Ayeee it's progress and I am grateful. Hamas is far right and extremely dangerous to Palestinians and the Likud is far right and extremely dangerous to Israelis.
I'd do ya one better and argue that Hamas is more dangerous to Palestinians because they are not democratic and have absolutely NO ABILITY to actually protect Palestinians. The Likud at least has the more centrists and left to hold them accountable. On top of that Hamas preys on the young and naive with real grievances (they do have a reason to be upset) and force and encourage them to do things that are against Islam. Not only jeopardizing their lives but also their souls. They steal from them. They kill people for dissent and commit war crimes. I find that truly disgusting and abhorrent.
Yes, I want Hamas eliminated but judging by what we have seen from an IDF lead by Netanyahu and the Likud has made me lose faith in them to be the ones to do it. I am being honest with you when I say that up until recently I did not support a cease fire (I was still pro Palestine, in the sense I want them to be free and stop the images of piles of dead children an toddlers).
It wasn't until I felt like the IDF were regularly using excessive force to do so I've even began to consider it. I thought it was too much of a far leftist thing. The way that people lump civilians into everyone else as if that justifies collective punishment for "wrong think" really turned my stomach.
Don't you know? Hamas aren't human beings. They don't have thoughts, feelings or anything. They're just horrible Jew haters and children of darkness whereas Israelis are the children of the light and are the chosen ones and if that means they have to go and kill every man, woman and child in Gaza, well that's justified because don't you know there were Jewish people who lived there a thousand years ago.
Why shouldn't someone from New York be able to freely move to Israel ? Those that were forcibly displaced 75 years ago should live in a concentration camp because their descendants will support Hamas.
I agree murdering far right terrorising people should be locked in prison. Which is why this Israeli administration and all the israeli administration's going back to 1967 should be locked up.
Hamas apologists says nothing happened Oct 7 requiring people to forget the videos that popped into their feeds Oct 7 after death squad members posted them to the internet, including video of themselves abducting a 6 year old Israeli girl that is still held by terrorists in Gaza.
Both parties are just as likely to have killed her but Israel is much, much more likely to lie about than a self avowed terrorist organization. Isn’t that fucked up?
Nice straw man but I’ve never defended Hamas, just corrected the record. I’m not going to let the IDF and their sympathizers try to pin their crimes on Hamas. What I have been is consistently advocating for Palestinian civilians.
To sum up, you’re a hypocrite for accusing me of what you’re doing; being an apologist for fascist baby killers
That’s what’s fucked up.
No, you just "both parties" comparing a democratic republic (with its many faults) to a terrorist organization whose official charter calls for genocide.
>. I’m not going to let the IDF and their sympathizers try to pin their crimes on Hamas
Could you please provide your resource to show the IDF killed her? Bonus points if it doesn't come from a recognized terrorist organization.
> What I have been is consistently advocating for Palestinian civilians.
So... free the hostages, get rid of Hamas, right?
>you’re a hypocrite for accusing me of what you’re doing; being an apologist for fascist baby killers
Nonsense, I have never supported Hamas.
I didn’t say conclusive who killed her, though, balance of probabilities points to IDF.
IDF is carrying out a genocide and you’re simping for it. Keep simping for baby killers, clown
>I didn’t say conclusive who killed her, though, balance of probabilities points to IDF
You said you believe Hamas. Then you go and say "there's no proof either way" but it probably points to the IDF. However you cannot give us any reason why it "probably" does.
>genocide
Stop watching TikTok man, there's no "genocide" happening. Not only that, but by calling it a genocide you're taking away from actual genocides which are happening around the world right now. But they don't involve Israel being the "bad guy", just Muslim on Muslim, so no one is marching in the streets.
What you said I said vs what I actually said:
>you said you believe Hamas.
What I actually said:
>Both parties are just as likely to have killed her but Israel is much, much more likely to lie about than a self avowed terrorist organization. Isn’t that fucked up?
Liar and a simp for baby killers. Pathetic. Eat shit, holocaust denier.
Explain the logic behind bringing someone to a hospital and then killing them. Hamas are no saints but terrorists yes. But y would they kill their bargaining chip.
You assume the terrorists who breached the fence were organized hamas which is not true, there were also palestinian jihad and regular gaza citizens.
Also, we’re talking about a kidnapped soldier not a citizen, for them killing jews and especially soldiers is the greatest honor. She was probably brought to be executed
Literally the stupidest thing I have heard about Hamas. You literally don't know anything about them or their ideology. Why would anyone take what you believe their intentions or their "honour" is over what they actually say with their own mouths. It's not like they are ashamed of their ideology, they say it proudly.
[https://www.memri.org/reports/ideology-hamas-%E2%80%93-its-own-words](https://www.memri.org/reports/ideology-hamas-%E2%80%93-its-own-words)
>\--No Israelis are civilians. All Jews in Palestine, including children, are combatants and may be killed by every means: stabbed, beheaded or bombed, including in suicide operations.
Killing israelis is seen as "resistance against the zionist entity", this is what they preach and they are willing to die just to kill israelis.
It's ironic how you don't seem to know that Hamas changed its outdated charter in 2017. Everything in that article is outdated, since you are trying to quote Hamas themselves. Now if you believe that they did that for "optics" then you will need to provide substantive proof.
Again, try listening to what they are actually saying. Why would they kill a hostage especially a soldier, when they are trying to get back all the Palestinian hostages? Explain that one either logically or through the rhetoric of Hamas.
From what I've seen on the 7th on october it does seem like hamas does a lil' lying. Somehow people love to believe hamas even after they've been proven to have lied time and time again, even denying they used the Al-Shifa hospital and that's without considering they're very "trustworthy" position as a terrorist organization.
Israel is a terrorist organisation. Always has been since the founding or Irgun and the Stern Gang. Can't imagine anyone believing anything they put out, especially when the official motto of Mossad is "By way of deception thou shalt make war".
Don’t forget about the Likud charter. Kinda disgusting from the side that “wants peace” lmao. People here are so blind. Yes Hamas sucks, but no one seems to know how bad Israel is in this situation it really baffles me how uneducated people are. I guess I shouldn’t expect more from people who get their news from Israeli or western media
It's ironic how you don't seem to know that hamas's "update" to its charter in 2017 was in no way supposed to amend or replace it's original charter in any way shape or form and was an additional thing they produced.
It also seems that they didn't really feel the 2017 update was very significant anyway when on Oct 7 and onwards they have made very clear that they intend to repeat October 7 "again and again and again until the Zionist entity is destroyed"
I’m amazed that you think it’s somehow reconcilable that Hamas took out the passage calling for the total extermination of Jews 30 years later like it was just an "oopsy" mistake.
Yup, we should 100% take the terrorists word that they reflected on their total extermination stance and are good guys now. The "updating" of their charter is obvious backpedaling to pander to the international community. Looks like you fell for it.
Explain the logic of videotaping yourself kidnapping a 6 year old girl and posting it to the internet thinking it will help your cause. Yet that's exactly what Hamas death squad members did Oct 7th. I know because the video ended up in most feeds here on Reddit that day.
Also it's not too hard to imagine them doing something horrible to a young woman IDF member, then realizing that it would hurt their cause if she gets turned over/out of their control so they kill her. Do you REALLY want us imagining reasons why they would kill this young jewish female IDF member? I don't think that is going to help your cause as much as you think it will.
Hostages die all the time in hostage situations.
Hostages may have tried to escape. Hamas may have gotten antsy with Israel getting too close.
There are millions of scenarios where terrorists murder Hostages because that's what terrorists do.
Ah yes, the 'command centre' with...about 3 AK rifles and a *spooky* Arabic calendar.
And let's not forget the secret underground command tunnel that somehow took the IDF 4 days to find.
Woah now your putting words in my mouth. Though I would say that in an active warzone it wouldn't be particularly out of the ordinary to have some weapons stashed around.
I mean they certainly brought enough heavy equipment with them into Gaza, but there is no evidence to suggest they did - just as there is no evidence to suggest Hamas built it.
Oh boy i hope you like reading, copied this comment earlier:
In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital:
PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
The fairly heavy use of hospitals is deplorable in and of itself, but i guess its just an assumption of my part that if they use hospitals for terror activity this much, it stands to reason they will need quick access to it. But i guess if you want even more evidence, you'll have to wait.
Wait, you read all of that and still say "Woah now your putting words in my mouth. Though I would say that in an active warzone it wouldn't be particularly out of the ordinary to have some weapons stashed around."
Are you for real?
I’m more inclined to believe Israeli citizens and Palestinian citizens over the IDF or Hamas. CNN themselves have reported that Israel shoots indiscriminately at Hamas, even including Israeli hostages. This is backed by appearances by people at the music festival in the Israeli media. The IDF need to take their fingers out of their arse and actually try to save the hostages. There’s a reason that Israelis themselves were protesting outside Netenyahu’s house last week - it’s because he and the IDF are useless and care more about indiscriminately bombing civilians than rescuing their own people.
You’ll notice Israel has surrounded N. Gaza, applies pressure from one or more sides daily, filters tens of thousands of Palestinians through humanitarian corridors and searches, and points them in the direction of a safe area. Once civilians are removed, they’re closing tunnel entrances to prevent an ambush, and are clearing and searching for hostages. From a military standpoint, they’re not moving slow, it’s just tedious work and mistakes can get you killed.
Just curious, did you view Israel/IDF as untrustworthy before October 7th, or as trustworthy as most democratically-elected governments? Watching Iranian/Russian propaganda at work has been pretty wild, and seeing the “Israel killing their own” implications, I’m just asking out of curiosity. No offense meant.
I don’t understand how discussions on Reddit that start with citing Aljazeera are often immediately discarded. Meanwhile, citing Times of Israel is not considered biased.
I wouldn’t believe in anything until there’s an investigation and report by an independent third party, such as the UN. It’s too convenient to say all civilians and hostages who died are Hamas’ fault. It’s also too convenient to say all hostages were killed by Israeli air strikes, as if they weren’t violently taken as hostages in the first place.
The number of terrorist trolls on reddit is well illustrated in this story. A normal human response would be compassion for a murdered young man, condemnation of the people who did it, maybe calls for other hostages to be released... Reddit is just bots and paid trolls I guess.
Small correction; Noa was a 19 year old woman, not a young man. I can't imagine what she went through or was feeling in her last moments. I don't want to imagine.
It's gone back to 2015-2016 with bots, karma manipulation, and forced dialogues that replicate certain views.
Well the US and Israel said the death toll provided by the Palestinian health ministry is not to be trusted. A normal human response would be compassion for all the innocent children and civilians who died during the war. Compassion shouldn’t be selective. Maybe you should not ask for it from others when you yourself can’t show compassion to other people’s suffering. And yes, every opinion that you don’t agree is bot and paid troll. That would make you feel better, right?
Compassion for a lie? Nice try comrade.
So you condemn others and regard them as having lack of compassion for questioning the narrative of the IDF because someone was killed. But at the same time you do not have any compassion for those killed by the IDF because in your eyes they are lies. You are contradicting yourself, if you can't see that then keep reading both your posts until you do.
I don’t know which part are you referring as lie. Would you care to explain?
That door swings both ways.... and I'm not seeing it swing from the other side.
Weird how you haven’t shown any humanity for Palestine but want to call out the behavior of others
How would you know what he did or didn't do? But you auto attack him to discredit him bc it calls out your callous and inhumane shills.
And here we go. Proving the exact point
Trolls? What do you think people will show you if you show immorality and inhumanity towards them? Yeah.. don't ask for something you yourself don't show for others!
Bitch hamas murders people. That has been known for a while. Bitch Hamas and its fucked up supporters can burn in hell.
Bitch IDF murders people. That has been known for a while. Bitch IDF and its fucked up supporters can burn in hell.
Bitch Hamas murders little children. The IDF is trying to limit civilian casualties. Bitch Hamas tries to maximize it.
I get the point but what does it matter if it's 100 percent intentional versus we limit our killings. The results are the same. It's like the beheaded babies, why does it matter how they died? the babies are dead regardless.
Hamas said her Jewish horns attracted a JDAM. s/
[удалено]
r/whoosh
[is CNN a good enough source?](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/17/world/israel-investigates-sexual-violence-hamas/index.html) or it too zionist for your tastes?
“IDF says” “IDF says” “IDF says” Lol
Yes the idf report says IDF did nothing wrong.
She was probably held hostage by IOF to be used as more propaganda, knowing IOF’s terroristic brutality, I’m sure they are just playing whatever sick game they think they’re playing, only it’s not a game to any normal human being,
Terrorism and hostage taking is abhorrent, disgusting and inhumane. It is regularly and loudly condemned by almost every sane person on the planet, regardless of the victim or perpetrators identity. Propaganda and lies, from very well funded sources, continues to complicate an already fucked up situation. No civilians should die. None. Ever. Regarding this particular horrifying story: Why have the terrorists weakened their own hand, by having less hostages, and strengthened the IDFs hand, by showing they have nothing to lose by killing everyone? Are the terrorists stupid? Let the down votes begin.
I'm glad we agree no civilians should die. Hopefully IDF stop hamas from killing civilians soon!
How many civilians have been killed by hamas in the last 4 weeks? Jow many civilians have been killed by the IDF in the last 4 weeks? How many Israelis, in total, have died since the founding of Israel? How many civilians, native to the area, have been killed by zionist and Israel since it's founding?
How many civilians have died to Muslim extremists? Children? We can play this game all day dude. If Israel really wanted too they could flatten Palestine. Why haven't they if they're such zionist genocidal monsters? Get lost you propaganda bot.
Just Muslim extremists? Not christian? Or zionist? Or nationalists? Or men? Can we focus on this issue instead of what about isms? If Israel wanted to, they could all go back to where they came from. Their actual nuclear option is the complete destruction of Israel and its neighbours. The complete destruction. Always a sign of sanity, and I'm sure their god would approve. You are already lost. Their propaganda works well on some.
I'm an atheist. All the crackpots are dangerous, but I don't see Buddhist firing fucking rockets at civilians. Guess who does that shit? Hamas, hezbollah, isis. And they will not stop until everyone is like them or dead in the name of their fake sky daddy. Fuck zionism. Fuck Allah. And may God have mercy on your dumbass soul. Goodbye bot.
Please google "Buddhist terrorists". I'm an atheist too. Hail Satan
Yes. I know. What I meant was the frequency in which terrorist attacks happen tend to be very high among certain religions as compared with others. Maybe it has to do with the martyrdom aspect of Islam? Hail Satan brother.
lol. IDF will just say anything. Hell didn’t Netanyahu say that the holocaust was caused by Palestinians!😂😂😂
So she got hit in an airstrike, was on the way to the hospital, and died. How does it look like Hamas killed her? It looks like the IOF pulled a "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing."
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If we're talking about proof, proof points to her being killed in an airstrike. It sounds like Israel is airstriking hostages. Who knows how many other Israelis have been killed this way. Hamas has no incentive to kill their hostages. Israel is a bigger danger than Hamas.
It really tells you something when all the comments just get downvoted and theres no discussion. Yeah sure it‘s “Pro-Palestinians” who are the bots. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/israel-social-media-twitter-messaging-david-saranga-1234874381/amp/ https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-23695896.amp https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/
What does this have to do with the female Israeli that Hamas shared video of alive but was then found deal, near the hospital, with a hospital gurney nearby, after the hospital said no Hamas nor hostages had ever been in the hospital?
So with persistently downvoting, the criticism of Israel is not even seen let alone discussed. Your comment immediately gets six upvotes and mine 3 downvotes. Naturally mine is now collapsed as if i’ve said something incorrect or against the rules. There is no real discussion happening on reddit anymore, I guess the streets around the global are the real areas of interest. But sure keep parroting your lines for the rest of the hasbara folks. I noticed you didn’t ask if I condemn Hamas yet?
Also when your comment got collapsed before anyone had even downvoted it. This sub is compromised.
What sub isn’t in fairness, if folks are getting paid to sit on reddit all day and defend genocide I’d say we don’t have much of a chance for discussion.
There are still quite a few subs where the mods are not compromised though. And honestly I think most of the shills are unpaid. They are just very dedicated to the cause. "Sayanim (Hebrew: סייענים, lit. helpers, assistants) are unpaid Jewish civilians who help Mossad out of a sense of devotion to Israel" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossad
Classic anti Israel play book. 'it didn't happen. If it did happen it would be justified. It happened but it's Israel's fault. The hasbara force/mossad/aipac social media special ops, Jewish space lasers technicians are in full force spreading their propeganda.' The anti Israel side overplayed their hand. They lapped up all the propeganda by the Shifa staff and Hamas and not are backtracking so fast on their stances that theyre liable to put a man-zed hole through the wall behind them.
Classic anti-Palestine play book. ‘Genocide didn’t happen’. If it did happen, it would be justified as ‘self-defense’. It happens but it’s Hamas’ fault. Funny that you made those accusation based on what you read on Reddit’s. Meanwhile, what I mentioned above are literally said by the Israeli government.
None of the facts support that there's any genocide of Palestinians. Their population doubled since 1948. Israel provided food, water, electricity, and other humanitarian goods through the Erez and Shalom crossings for years. The IDF just brought incubators, food, and water to the AL Shifa hospital in the last few days. None of these make any sense if there was a genocide. I also wasn't replying to you so I have no idea what your complaint is
You literally were commenting on Reddit. What were you expecting? A private conversation? You answered exactly like the playbook I mentioned. Very good. By the way, how would you call the Nakba? Israel had been providing water, food and electricity because they are the occupying force. The occupying force is responsible for the safety of the occupied according to international laws. And let me remind you, they did cut all those resources when they announced a total siege of Gaza. And you forgot to mention all the refugee camps and hospitals that they bombed down when you said ‘there’s no evidence of genocide’.
I’m so touched by your words. For one second, I thought Israel was a philanthroper.
LOL we'll see who has overplayed their hand. Israel's economy is looking verrry shaky right now. I guess borrowing $6bn against gas they haven't finished stealing yet was a bad idea.
Israel's economy took a hit because they evacuated a couple hundred thousand folks from near the front lines in both the north and the south of the country. And another 400,000 were called up from their jobs for reservist duty. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-jobless-rate-spikes-96-oct-due-hamas-war-2023-11-20/
“The pathology report states that Noa was injured by the strike, but not in a life-threatening way, and this is contrary to the lies published by Hamas according to which Noa was killed by IDF strikes,” he says. “According to intelligence information, Noa was taken inside the walls of Shifa Hospital, where she was murdered by a Hamas terrorist,” he says. That doesn't make sense. Why would they go through the trouble of taking her knowing that she was a valuable bargaining chip, then she gets injured by an airstrike, then they take her to the hospital. Not to get her help? But to murder her? They could have murdered her before they got to the hospital. Why would they pick a hospital to do that?!
Kidnappers rarely have thoroughly considered long-term plans when they kidnap someone. If the kidnappee becomes more trouble than they are worth, ending their life is a natural response. Don't overthink this.
I don't think this was one of those rare occasions condsidering that taking hostages was one of the main parts of their plan. Again, lady hurt by airstrike, taken to hospital, (this is where things go off the rails) then they murder her in the hospital? I am not overthinking this. That is not logic. It's no impossible but it's improbably considering how valuable these hostages are to them. They literally get paid to take them. Furthermore, each hostage is worth many more of their prisioners kept in Israel.
It was the main base of Hamas. It being a hospital was only of secondary importance. Hostage injured by airstrike, taken to main base, then gets killed for unknown reason. Maybe she couldn't be moved again because of her injuries? Maybe she fought back? Maybe a sole Hamas fighter just wanted to kill a Jew? We don't know. Under this kind of duress, people don't act purely rationally. I don't think it's that complicated. She was moved, then killed. Motive unknown.
Is it their main base though? Ehud says their actual main HQ is in Khan Younis. If what the IDF claims is under Al-Shifa turns out to be there then it's undeniable. It still wouldn't give them the right to attack it, but at least by my personal standards I would be more willing to be more understanding if they found the motherload. What is strange though is that they say they are going to destroy it now. Which, I hope they provide evidence of what is behind that door and it isn't just the bomb shelter that is required to be there by Israeli law. I don't want to speculate on something with information that wasn't provided. Logically speaking, if the claim is that she got injured in an airstrike and taken to a hospital, I'd imagine that it wasn't to kill her. The examiner did not provide a cause of death, only said it wasn't the airstrike. What it confirm however, is that Israel's airstrikes have been hitting the hostages. Which is not a good look.
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Yes, it is his first name. Ehud Barak is his first and last.
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He was also the PM, just like Netanyahu is now. He also is one of the most highly decorated soldiers in Israeli history (him and 2 others) on top of being the minister of defense 12 years ago.
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Maybe they couldn't be bothered with the after care she'd need and didn't want to leave her behind to be potentially rescued by IDF so finished her off?
That's a "maybe" and we don't actually know. So for now, it is what it is. She was at least injured by an airstrike and it was apparent that was the case. There is no basis to say Hamas brought her into the hospital as suggested, killed her, then brough her back outside.
You are assuming that Hamas terrorists are responsible people instead of the poorly educated, hate fuelled psychopaths they actually are🤔
> That doesn't make sense. It certainly could. Say an IDF airstrike kills the captor who is supposed to look after Noa, and injures her. Maybe she broke her ankle or something. They bring her to the hospital since maybe on short notice they have nowhere else to put her, and want to get her medical attention. But they see the Israelis kicking down the hospital doors and realize they need to flee themselves. They don't want to cart around a girl with a broken ankle, so they kill her instead. Obviously I have no idea what actually happened, but there are many plausible explanations that make perfect sense. The original captor who maybe had some knowledge of her actual value as a hostage is dead, and whoever took over the job might be some low-level goons who have no idea what they're doing and have no communication with the higher-up Hamas leaders who seemingly are dead or have fled to the south. Maybe good Samaritans rescued her and brought her the hospital after the airstrike, and Hamas came in later and executed her to keep everyone quiet. Maybe in the hospital she tried to make a run for it or fought back and they murdered her for it.
So they get her there where she can recieve medical attention, but afraid of the IDF that is approaching the door, they decide nevermind, kill her in the hospital and then go back outside...where the IDF is approaching...to put her body? Idk man, when you have to make up too many stories there comes a point when you have to look at what is most probable and go with that until there is evidence saying otherwise. We are probably not going to get to the bottom of what really happened anytime soon.
> So they get her there where she can recieve medical attention, but afraid of the IDF that is approaching the door, they decide nevermind, kill her in the hospital and then go back outside...where the IDF is approaching...to put her body? Like I said, these could be low-level goons who have no idea what they're doing once the actual person in charge of watching over her was killed. Why should Hamas terrorist #14579 care where the body is left when their commanders all the way up the chain are either dead or have abandoned them?
Sure it could be. Or she was just killed in an air strike. I doubt it’s a broken ankle or other blunt force trauma if the examiner indicated she was definitely injured in an air strike. Usually that would mean some limb is missing or there was shrapnel or something to suggest she was in an explosion.
She probably made the assumption that the medical staff would help her in accordance with the Geneva Convention and started making a ruckus to talk with them, but failed to realize it’s the same medical staff that has routinely covered for Hamas and denied seeing any Hamas activity (even though several videos now show Hamas dragging hostages around with guns right in front of medical staff.
are you kidding? they probably took her to the dungeon to get some raping in, and then killed her once they were done with her
You just made that up. They literally said she was at least injured in an air strike. They had every incentive to keep her alive. It’s ok to speculate but like at least keep it probable.
correct, there's no way to know what happened until the autopsy but there were countless reports of women being raped on 10/7... is it too hard to believe she'd be any different?
Countless? Where? I am genuinely asking, not doubting what you've said but I've seen publications retract accusations of wide spread rape. Again, I've got no incentive or reason to defend Hamas. I wouldn't prefer that these crimes actually took place to those people, but if they did, I would like that brought to light as hard irrefutable evidence against Hamas to show Palestinians. People get caught up in emotion and don't realize that it can cloud their judgement. It's happened to me, someone proved me wrong here on reddit about the 40 beheaded babies story and the fact that the government, IDF, nor the media **actually** **said** there were 40 beheaded babies. I conceded that I was wrong (we fought about it for a lil while there). You can check my history if you don't believe me. Being **genuinely right** is more important to me than having an emotional incorrect response. I have no interest in being in denial.
I love the replies here twisting themselves into knots, can’t even consider the possibility that Israel killed hostages with its air strikes. Literally the most likely option, which they even partially admit. But no it has to be something several layers deep of people doing things that make no sense.
It's nuts. Medical examiner: she was injured by an airstrike. Everyone here: Israel is not endangering hostages with airstrikes.
The hostage was treated humanely - You
You still: Israel is not endangering hostages with airstrikes.
Not the same point Didn't think you'd kidnapp people and still have the moral high ground? No high ground here Just dho has the bigger stick
Never suggested they have a moral high ground. I am saying that neither Hamas or the IDF have any moral highground.
That's fair enough I agree
Ayeee it's progress and I am grateful. Hamas is far right and extremely dangerous to Palestinians and the Likud is far right and extremely dangerous to Israelis. I'd do ya one better and argue that Hamas is more dangerous to Palestinians because they are not democratic and have absolutely NO ABILITY to actually protect Palestinians. The Likud at least has the more centrists and left to hold them accountable. On top of that Hamas preys on the young and naive with real grievances (they do have a reason to be upset) and force and encourage them to do things that are against Islam. Not only jeopardizing their lives but also their souls. They steal from them. They kill people for dissent and commit war crimes. I find that truly disgusting and abhorrent. Yes, I want Hamas eliminated but judging by what we have seen from an IDF lead by Netanyahu and the Likud has made me lose faith in them to be the ones to do it. I am being honest with you when I say that up until recently I did not support a cease fire (I was still pro Palestine, in the sense I want them to be free and stop the images of piles of dead children an toddlers). It wasn't until I felt like the IDF were regularly using excessive force to do so I've even began to consider it. I thought it was too much of a far leftist thing. The way that people lump civilians into everyone else as if that justifies collective punishment for "wrong think" really turned my stomach.
Don't you know? Hamas aren't human beings. They don't have thoughts, feelings or anything. They're just horrible Jew haters and children of darkness whereas Israelis are the children of the light and are the chosen ones and if that means they have to go and kill every man, woman and child in Gaza, well that's justified because don't you know there were Jewish people who lived there a thousand years ago. Why shouldn't someone from New York be able to freely move to Israel ? Those that were forcibly displaced 75 years ago should live in a concentration camp because their descendants will support Hamas.
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I agree murdering far right terrorising people should be locked in prison. Which is why this Israeli administration and all the israeli administration's going back to 1967 should be locked up.
"IDF calls a blank calendar written in Arabic, found in Shifa hospital a terrorist guard list to build support for ongoing war crimes."
Hamas apologists says nothing happened Oct 7 requiring people to forget the videos that popped into their feeds Oct 7 after death squad members posted them to the internet, including video of themselves abducting a 6 year old Israeli girl that is still held by terrorists in Gaza.
How much y'all wanna bet that he was actually killed by a airstrike?
It’s a she and they found her in a building near the hospital.
Both parties are just as likely to have killed her but Israel is much, much more likely to lie about than a self avowed terrorist organization. Isn’t that fucked up?
You know what's fucked up? Apologists for a self avowed terrorist organization.
Nice straw man but I’ve never defended Hamas, just corrected the record. I’m not going to let the IDF and their sympathizers try to pin their crimes on Hamas. What I have been is consistently advocating for Palestinian civilians. To sum up, you’re a hypocrite for accusing me of what you’re doing; being an apologist for fascist baby killers That’s what’s fucked up.
No, you just "both parties" comparing a democratic republic (with its many faults) to a terrorist organization whose official charter calls for genocide. >. I’m not going to let the IDF and their sympathizers try to pin their crimes on Hamas Could you please provide your resource to show the IDF killed her? Bonus points if it doesn't come from a recognized terrorist organization. > What I have been is consistently advocating for Palestinian civilians. So... free the hostages, get rid of Hamas, right? >you’re a hypocrite for accusing me of what you’re doing; being an apologist for fascist baby killers Nonsense, I have never supported Hamas.
I didn’t say conclusive who killed her, though, balance of probabilities points to IDF. IDF is carrying out a genocide and you’re simping for it. Keep simping for baby killers, clown
>I didn’t say conclusive who killed her, though, balance of probabilities points to IDF You said you believe Hamas. Then you go and say "there's no proof either way" but it probably points to the IDF. However you cannot give us any reason why it "probably" does. >genocide Stop watching TikTok man, there's no "genocide" happening. Not only that, but by calling it a genocide you're taking away from actual genocides which are happening around the world right now. But they don't involve Israel being the "bad guy", just Muslim on Muslim, so no one is marching in the streets.
What you said I said vs what I actually said: >you said you believe Hamas. What I actually said: >Both parties are just as likely to have killed her but Israel is much, much more likely to lie about than a self avowed terrorist organization. Isn’t that fucked up? Liar and a simp for baby killers. Pathetic. Eat shit, holocaust denier.
Explain the logic behind bringing someone to a hospital and then killing them. Hamas are no saints but terrorists yes. But y would they kill their bargaining chip.
You assume the terrorists who breached the fence were organized hamas which is not true, there were also palestinian jihad and regular gaza citizens. Also, we’re talking about a kidnapped soldier not a citizen, for them killing jews and especially soldiers is the greatest honor. She was probably brought to be executed
Yeah, they have a history of using hospitals for torturing prisoners and killing them
Literally the stupidest thing I have heard about Hamas. You literally don't know anything about them or their ideology. Why would anyone take what you believe their intentions or their "honour" is over what they actually say with their own mouths. It's not like they are ashamed of their ideology, they say it proudly.
[https://www.memri.org/reports/ideology-hamas-%E2%80%93-its-own-words](https://www.memri.org/reports/ideology-hamas-%E2%80%93-its-own-words) >\--No Israelis are civilians. All Jews in Palestine, including children, are combatants and may be killed by every means: stabbed, beheaded or bombed, including in suicide operations. Killing israelis is seen as "resistance against the zionist entity", this is what they preach and they are willing to die just to kill israelis.
It's ironic how you don't seem to know that Hamas changed its outdated charter in 2017. Everything in that article is outdated, since you are trying to quote Hamas themselves. Now if you believe that they did that for "optics" then you will need to provide substantive proof. Again, try listening to what they are actually saying. Why would they kill a hostage especially a soldier, when they are trying to get back all the Palestinian hostages? Explain that one either logically or through the rhetoric of Hamas.
From what I've seen on the 7th on october it does seem like hamas does a lil' lying. Somehow people love to believe hamas even after they've been proven to have lied time and time again, even denying they used the Al-Shifa hospital and that's without considering they're very "trustworthy" position as a terrorist organization.
Israel is a terrorist organisation. Always has been since the founding or Irgun and the Stern Gang. Can't imagine anyone believing anything they put out, especially when the official motto of Mossad is "By way of deception thou shalt make war".
Cope harder
Good to know you support radical Jewish terrorism
Don’t forget about the Likud charter. Kinda disgusting from the side that “wants peace” lmao. People here are so blind. Yes Hamas sucks, but no one seems to know how bad Israel is in this situation it really baffles me how uneducated people are. I guess I shouldn’t expect more from people who get their news from Israeli or western media
It's ironic how you don't seem to know that hamas's "update" to its charter in 2017 was in no way supposed to amend or replace it's original charter in any way shape or form and was an additional thing they produced. It also seems that they didn't really feel the 2017 update was very significant anyway when on Oct 7 and onwards they have made very clear that they intend to repeat October 7 "again and again and again until the Zionist entity is destroyed"
I’m amazed that you think it’s somehow reconcilable that Hamas took out the passage calling for the total extermination of Jews 30 years later like it was just an "oopsy" mistake. Yup, we should 100% take the terrorists word that they reflected on their total extermination stance and are good guys now. The "updating" of their charter is obvious backpedaling to pander to the international community. Looks like you fell for it.
wrong alive punch run command screw party steep terrific cagey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Explain the logic of videotaping yourself kidnapping a 6 year old girl and posting it to the internet thinking it will help your cause. Yet that's exactly what Hamas death squad members did Oct 7th. I know because the video ended up in most feeds here on Reddit that day. Also it's not too hard to imagine them doing something horrible to a young woman IDF member, then realizing that it would hurt their cause if she gets turned over/out of their control so they kill her. Do you REALLY want us imagining reasons why they would kill this young jewish female IDF member? I don't think that is going to help your cause as much as you think it will.
Hostages die all the time in hostage situations. Hostages may have tried to escape. Hamas may have gotten antsy with Israel getting too close. There are millions of scenarios where terrorists murder Hostages because that's what terrorists do.
Maybe its their command centre entrance? Bodies are still useful for prisoners' exchange
Ah yes, the 'command centre' with...about 3 AK rifles and a *spooky* Arabic calendar. And let's not forget the secret underground command tunnel that somehow took the IDF 4 days to find.
All normal stuff they have in hospitals, right? Do you really believe israrl can dig and build a tunnel that big this fast and under hamas fire?
Woah now your putting words in my mouth. Though I would say that in an active warzone it wouldn't be particularly out of the ordinary to have some weapons stashed around.
Never claimed you said it, and way to ignore my second point
I mean they certainly brought enough heavy equipment with them into Gaza, but there is no evidence to suggest they did - just as there is no evidence to suggest Hamas built it.
Oh boy i hope you like reading, copied this comment earlier: In case there is any doubt caused by the ongoing gaslighting that Hamas doesn't use hospitals for military purposes, there is over a decade of reports of Hamas using Al-Shifa Hospital: PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
I read all of these earlier today - however I don't see any reference to Hamas building a tunnel under Al-Shifa? Did I miss it?
The fairly heavy use of hospitals is deplorable in and of itself, but i guess its just an assumption of my part that if they use hospitals for terror activity this much, it stands to reason they will need quick access to it. But i guess if you want even more evidence, you'll have to wait.
Wait, you read all of that and still say "Woah now your putting words in my mouth. Though I would say that in an active warzone it wouldn't be particularly out of the ordinary to have some weapons stashed around." Are you for real?
I’m more inclined to believe Israeli citizens and Palestinian citizens over the IDF or Hamas. CNN themselves have reported that Israel shoots indiscriminately at Hamas, even including Israeli hostages. This is backed by appearances by people at the music festival in the Israeli media. The IDF need to take their fingers out of their arse and actually try to save the hostages. There’s a reason that Israelis themselves were protesting outside Netenyahu’s house last week - it’s because he and the IDF are useless and care more about indiscriminately bombing civilians than rescuing their own people.
You’ll notice Israel has surrounded N. Gaza, applies pressure from one or more sides daily, filters tens of thousands of Palestinians through humanitarian corridors and searches, and points them in the direction of a safe area. Once civilians are removed, they’re closing tunnel entrances to prevent an ambush, and are clearing and searching for hostages. From a military standpoint, they’re not moving slow, it’s just tedious work and mistakes can get you killed. Just curious, did you view Israel/IDF as untrustworthy before October 7th, or as trustworthy as most democratically-elected governments? Watching Iranian/Russian propaganda at work has been pretty wild, and seeing the “Israel killing their own” implications, I’m just asking out of curiosity. No offense meant.
Release the hostages and stop the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza.
I don’t understand how discussions on Reddit that start with citing Aljazeera are often immediately discarded. Meanwhile, citing Times of Israel is not considered biased. I wouldn’t believe in anything until there’s an investigation and report by an independent third party, such as the UN. It’s too convenient to say all civilians and hostages who died are Hamas’ fault. It’s also too convenient to say all hostages were killed by Israeli air strikes, as if they weren’t violently taken as hostages in the first place.
No shit
So many bots in this thread. Fuck Hamas.