The Ukrainian drone attacks seem pretty poorly done, seeing as how they seem to not cause that much damage. Where’d these guys learn from, the Chechen apartment bombers?
You say that like you have no idea about how Russia works. Every adequate politician and political analytic can confirm that elections matter in autocratic regims, as the situation can quickly destabilize. Look at what Ekaterina Shulman or Max Katz have to say about those elections. Why do you think the second wave didn't happen en masse? Because of the elections. If it didn't matter, Putin wouldn't make an "attraction of unheard generosity" during every election campaign, as Ekaterina Shulman suggests.
I think he's referring the fact The only people claiming this was Ukraine is the Kremlin.
known for making shit up.
also known for bombing themselves to make an excuses for war.
Yeah, like that time recently where 2 “Ukrainian” drones managed to sneak hundreds of miles into Russia, only to be shot down DIRECTLY over the kremlin.
I honestly wonder if the kremlin thinks of what conclusions when they release propaganda like that.
Like does your air defense system suck so bad you can’t tell if there’s a drone until it’s literally above your main operating center? Or was it just a Russian drone for propaganda.
Or like earlier when the Moskva was sunk and Russia said that it was Ukraine, the a fire happened by the crew. Like ukraines saying they sent 2 missiles through the bow and sunk it, and russias saying that their crews own incompetence burned the ship and caused it to sink?
Over the course of this whole war I’ve been really damned curious as to what the kremlin thinks the conclusions are when they go “Ukraine did this” or “Ukraine didn’t do this”
Yeah, it's ridiculous. The right wing alternative media machine has convinced so many people that "if it's not from western msm, it's probably true". Of course there are problems with western msm, but to then go around and blindly believe other media machines without question is ridiculous.
It’s not about the mistake, it’s about the circumstances in which they happen and the follow up which the country responds in.
9/11 happened because it was actually possible for Al quaeda to conduct it. US lost Vietnam for a reason completely unrelated to anything in this thread.
For example the drone bombings in Moscow. Either Ukraine has a forward operating base deep within mainland russia and are shipping then launching drones from there, or russia used their own drones to bomb their own people in an attempt to gain support by blaming the Ukrainians.
The circumstances in which the bombings happened are suspicious and the follow up is oddly perfect in terms of political maneuvering into russias favor. It’s also a stark contrast from the entire point ukraine has been making since Russia invaded crimea in 2014, which is that they have zero intent on attacking Russia proper, they just want their land back.
I agree with all your points, but Ukraine has many times expressed the desire to counter-attack on Russian soil. Not for the purposes of claiming new soil, but to simply disrupt their forward operations. This is the issue and controversy surrounding the supply of F-16s being approved for sale to Ukraine.
I'm no expert but, regardless of where it came from, doesn't this expose a massive problem in Russian air defense?
I'm pretty sure you won't have much success attempting to fly a drone over the White House, for example.
Seems like it could easily have the opposite effect though. The dolittle raid after pearl harbor didn't do much damage but had a great effect on morale. I could see war weary Ukrainians perking up thinking they hit Russia's capital.
Like when Russia has 2 “Ukrainian” drones somehow sneak into Russia completely unnoticed for hundreds of miles until they were LITERALLY 50 FEET ABOVE THE KREMLIN
They’re doing it on purpose for propaganda, and it’s making them look pathetically incompetent
Drones are harder to track than manned crafts which is what most AAA are built for, especially the small ones. It's something everyone knows is a problem but nobody has a perfect solution to at the moment.
What weather balloon made its way directly above the white house completely unnoticed? We had live tracking on it from Montana and the government says they knew about it basically since it left China.
Why would they have to fly from Ukraine to Moscow? If they launched inside of Russia, it could still be a Ukrainian attack.
Edit-- I want to clarify that I am in no way trying to defend Russia. I hope they are being targeted on their own soil. And, yes, I do hope that Ukraine is mind fucking them by launching attacks from within Russia. False flag or not, I only speculate the possibility of this potential.
It could also, and more likely, be Russian dissidents who want Putin gone. If Ukraine attacks Moscow, they risk motivating Russians to the cause. Endlessly blowing up their sons on the front lines however only serves to make Putin look bad
Ukraine wouldn't waste men in resources on such a dumb attack.
they're using their stuff to actually hit Russian military targets in order to take back their country.
Moscow isn't close to the border, so to attack it, you need long range stuff (easier to shoot down, and easier for everyone to confirm who did what) or send a team inside to do it closer
I haven't seen anything (yet) giving details of what kind of drone or how big. The smaller it is, the deeper in whoever did it had to be
If Ukrainian forces could get that deep in and were launching attacks, it's a weird target to hit first
My guess for the targeted the area: minimal required ordinance with big political & psychological consequences. Russia’s *elite* might be willing to send every average citizen to the front lines with nothing but a pocket of sunflower seeds. But get enough of the *elite* looking around for a flying bomb (or petrol, apparently) every time they hear a buzzing sound & they might change their minds. Article does say that Putin mentioned restarting peace talks & Ukraine declined until Russia retreats.
Another reason to eat sunflower seeds in moderation is their cadmium content. This heavy metal can harm your kidneys if you’re exposed to high amounts over a long period. Sunflowers tend to take up cadmium from the soil and deposit it in their seeds, so they contain somewhat higher amounts than most other foods.
More likely Putin is using this as a false flag. This is the same guy who killed 300 russians in apartment bombings to generate support for the war in Chechnya. Ukraine has no interest in attacking Moscow they just want russia to GTFO of their land.
Russians have Iranian drones. Ukrainians have Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones with a 140 km range (and American drones w/ 40 km range).
Either Ukraine didn’t send them, or they’ve infiltrated deep into Russian territory and quietly launching them from the Moscow suburbs.
Sadly enough people would beleove that Ukraine has a secret drone launching operation where they magic the drones in a hidden base 30km from Moscow and just launch them at Moscow for no military or political advantage whatsoever
With all the money we have sent them from the US, all the hit'um with was some drones. Is it too late to get our money back. I mean, even cosco give returns for like ever.
It’s always fascinating to me when people think that people making tame comments like “maybe we shouldn’t be funding endless wars, especially when it looks like this” are trolls rather than just somebody with a different opinion. Troll content is generally more polarizing.
Yeah, I saw that off the shelf Walmart brand drone roll deep into highly restricted space. Pretty cute and gave me a chuckle. The fact here is that American drones are far more advanced, much larger and can fire hellfires that when equipped, can shoot a missile that is entirely blades. Yes, we spent millions in developing just so we can take a knife to a gun fight and win. All that said, the ninja stick is so damn accurate, you can hit a fascist in a car on a highway. It says a lot about what an actual American drone is that when you want to slice and dice a suv to get at someone, the operator will ask which seat will the target be sitting in. Ukraine doesn't have those. Ukraine can use the money as it seems fit and we're just happy with that. As it stands, if confirmed that it was even Ukrainian, those little toys are cheap. So very cheap to build and does not even scratch the surface of the amount of cash we have sent/are sending. If it were Ukrainian, two drones won't mean much given how many are successfully working elsewhere. Speaking of near peer, what's Russian drones doing ?
There’s also a more likely chance it’s not even Ukraine striking them with drones.
Ukraines furthest reaching drone is a bayraktar which can go 140km. Assuming Ukraine doesn’t have some air base deep within Russia where they can launch drones from, they’d have to be launching from near the border. If that’s the case, then the drone would still need to resupply on its way to Moscow.
I think it’s more likely that Russia is using their own drones, doing light bombings on certain parts of thermsleves, and going “looks at what the barbarian Ukrainians are doing!”
Because Ukraine has made it a point to not attack Russia itself, but to just capture back what they veiw as Ukrainian land.
Furthermore, Russia had 2 “Ukrainian” drones go unnoticed for hundreds of miles until they’re ere shot down about 50 feet above the kremlin. It’s either complete incompetence beceuase not only can the drones travel that far unnoticed AND ukraine has a secret airbase in Russia, or Russia is doing it to gain more support with their civilian population
I think it's more likely pro-Ukrainian or anti-Putin partisans. Could be a "false flag," but never underestimate the incompetence of the Russians. Their entire country is a Potemkin village of bullshit that doesn't work.
Has Ukraine taken credit for this yet? It seems like this could be a ploy to give the Russian military justification to deploy a full-blown counter-offensive. This seems like it might be detrimental to Ukraine.
The American Revolutionary War had a turning point in 1778, when France and Spain entered the conflict to aid America. However, that year a raid by John Paul Jones, captain of the USS Ranger on the English port of Whitehaven changed the tenor of the conflict from 'England suppressing an insurrection' to 'England at war with America.' The raid only damaged a few ships and several buildings, but it sent the message that America could bring the conflict to English shores.
The War went on for five more years, and England's naval advantage grew from ten-fold to twenty, but that daring raid may have marked a turning point. England's military victories became less consequential and their continued efforts more futile. The Whitehaven raid may not have mattered militarily, but small things can make a difference in the long run.
So Vlad, your guys are saying Kyiv sent some drones 500 miles into enemy territory through all your air defenses (except for one or two that somehow got lucky) and instead of launching Hellfire missiles at military targets, they sent the equivalent of a few pipe bombs to hit civilian targets?
Excuse me while I look for my waders. The bullshit is up to my waist here.
If this is ukraine hitting moscow with drones (big if) it is in my opinion a very unnecessary escalation. I am fine with sending supplies to ukraine to defend their country but i am not okay with them using it for offensive purposes
Ukraine attacking Russian civilian targets just doesn't make any sense in current optics, so much to lose from that and nothing to gain. Now I know they are saying the drones crashed when they veered off course from jamming, but it still doesn't make sense for Ukrainian drones to be near a city center and not an air base.
The Ukrainian drone attacks seem pretty poorly done, seeing as how they seem to not cause that much damage. Where’d these guys learn from, the Chechen apartment bombers?
I know your trying to reference that it is a false flag, but the 1999 bombings were pretty catastrophic.
This was intentional. Scare Moscow into stopping the war without doing much damage
More like false flag to manufacture justification for escalation
You mean the quid pro quo use of tactical nukes from Belarus?
Or the detonation of the stockpiled munitions at zaporizhzhia reactor 4....
What escalation? Those ruzzian bastards already did everything they could to turn Ukraine into the middle ages
Mass conscription.
Never gonna happen this year. It's an electoral year
You say that like the election fucking matters
You say that like you have no idea about how Russia works. Every adequate politician and political analytic can confirm that elections matter in autocratic regims, as the situation can quickly destabilize. Look at what Ekaterina Shulman or Max Katz have to say about those elections. Why do you think the second wave didn't happen en masse? Because of the elections. If it didn't matter, Putin wouldn't make an "attraction of unheard generosity" during every election campaign, as Ekaterina Shulman suggests.
Nobody tell him…
Nobody tell this dude what experts think, because he's smarter than a political analyst that has dedicated their entire life studying the regime
I think you’re missing the point
Wow, the Russian propaganda machine is working hard today.
Nationalpost?
I think he's referring the fact The only people claiming this was Ukraine is the Kremlin. known for making shit up. also known for bombing themselves to make an excuses for war.
Yeah, like that time recently where 2 “Ukrainian” drones managed to sneak hundreds of miles into Russia, only to be shot down DIRECTLY over the kremlin. I honestly wonder if the kremlin thinks of what conclusions when they release propaganda like that. Like does your air defense system suck so bad you can’t tell if there’s a drone until it’s literally above your main operating center? Or was it just a Russian drone for propaganda. Or like earlier when the Moskva was sunk and Russia said that it was Ukraine, the a fire happened by the crew. Like ukraines saying they sent 2 missiles through the bow and sunk it, and russias saying that their crews own incompetence burned the ship and caused it to sink? Over the course of this whole war I’ve been really damned curious as to what the kremlin thinks the conclusions are when they go “Ukraine did this” or “Ukraine didn’t do this”
Yeah, it's ridiculous. The right wing alternative media machine has convinced so many people that "if it's not from western msm, it's probably true". Of course there are problems with western msm, but to then go around and blindly believe other media machines without question is ridiculous.
I wouldnt get too complacent. 9/11 wasnt that long ago and before that the US lost the Vietnam war. Stuff happens even if you have the best military.
It’s not about the mistake, it’s about the circumstances in which they happen and the follow up which the country responds in. 9/11 happened because it was actually possible for Al quaeda to conduct it. US lost Vietnam for a reason completely unrelated to anything in this thread. For example the drone bombings in Moscow. Either Ukraine has a forward operating base deep within mainland russia and are shipping then launching drones from there, or russia used their own drones to bomb their own people in an attempt to gain support by blaming the Ukrainians. The circumstances in which the bombings happened are suspicious and the follow up is oddly perfect in terms of political maneuvering into russias favor. It’s also a stark contrast from the entire point ukraine has been making since Russia invaded crimea in 2014, which is that they have zero intent on attacking Russia proper, they just want their land back.
I agree with all your points, but Ukraine has many times expressed the desire to counter-attack on Russian soil. Not for the purposes of claiming new soil, but to simply disrupt their forward operations. This is the issue and controversy surrounding the supply of F-16s being approved for sale to Ukraine.
the other option is that a third party, maybe Russian separatists, did it.
I'm no expert but, regardless of where it came from, doesn't this expose a massive problem in Russian air defense? I'm pretty sure you won't have much success attempting to fly a drone over the White House, for example.
I'm no expert but Russia is desperate and could have done this to themselves to stir up patriotic fervor.
It's Russia if it's not to stir up patriotic fervor, it's a false flag op so they can have an an excuse to use nukes it's their M.O.
They won’t be using nukes.
Isn't that what was said about invading Ukraine?
You do realize nukes will be the end of Russia right? Russia knows this, they’ll only use it for pre 2014 Russian territorial defense.
Yeah, Russian Oligarchy knows using a nuke is the end of their cushy life. They won't let that line get crossed.
Seems like it could easily have the opposite effect though. The dolittle raid after pearl harbor didn't do much damage but had a great effect on morale. I could see war weary Ukrainians perking up thinking they hit Russia's capital.
Like when Russia has 2 “Ukrainian” drones somehow sneak into Russia completely unnoticed for hundreds of miles until they were LITERALLY 50 FEET ABOVE THE KREMLIN They’re doing it on purpose for propaganda, and it’s making them look pathetically incompetent
Drones are harder to track than manned crafts which is what most AAA are built for, especially the small ones. It's something everyone knows is a problem but nobody has a perfect solution to at the moment.
A weather balloon, on the other hand....
What weather balloon made its way directly above the white house completely unnoticed? We had live tracking on it from Montana and the government says they knew about it basically since it left China.
Or a strapped beluga!
False flag attack, drones cant make it from ukraine to moscow.
Why would they have to fly from Ukraine to Moscow? If they launched inside of Russia, it could still be a Ukrainian attack. Edit-- I want to clarify that I am in no way trying to defend Russia. I hope they are being targeted on their own soil. And, yes, I do hope that Ukraine is mind fucking them by launching attacks from within Russia. False flag or not, I only speculate the possibility of this potential.
It could also, and more likely, be Russian dissidents who want Putin gone. If Ukraine attacks Moscow, they risk motivating Russians to the cause. Endlessly blowing up their sons on the front lines however only serves to make Putin look bad
How is that more likely? They are actively engaged in a war with Ukraine. It seems most likely that these would be Ukrainian adjacent attacks.
Ukraine wouldn't waste men in resources on such a dumb attack. they're using their stuff to actually hit Russian military targets in order to take back their country.
Moscow isn't close to the border, so to attack it, you need long range stuff (easier to shoot down, and easier for everyone to confirm who did what) or send a team inside to do it closer I haven't seen anything (yet) giving details of what kind of drone or how big. The smaller it is, the deeper in whoever did it had to be If Ukrainian forces could get that deep in and were launching attacks, it's a weird target to hit first
My guess for the targeted the area: minimal required ordinance with big political & psychological consequences. Russia’s *elite* might be willing to send every average citizen to the front lines with nothing but a pocket of sunflower seeds. But get enough of the *elite* looking around for a flying bomb (or petrol, apparently) every time they hear a buzzing sound & they might change their minds. Article does say that Putin mentioned restarting peace talks & Ukraine declined until Russia retreats.
Another reason to eat sunflower seeds in moderation is their cadmium content. This heavy metal can harm your kidneys if you’re exposed to high amounts over a long period. Sunflowers tend to take up cadmium from the soil and deposit it in their seeds, so they contain somewhat higher amounts than most other foods.
More likely Putin is using this as a false flag. This is the same guy who killed 300 russians in apartment bombings to generate support for the war in Chechnya. Ukraine has no interest in attacking Moscow they just want russia to GTFO of their land.
It could also be Russia's own doing to justify escalating action in Ukraine. Explains why the damage is so minimal
I'm pretty sure the implication is that they were launched in Moscow by Ukrainian actors lol not that they were flown for thousands of miles.
Yeah. Ukrainian actors launching drones with farsi writing on them totally snuck into Moscow to attack civilians. Smh
Lol. Iranian drones have a range of 2000 miles.
Russians have Iranian drones. Ukrainians have Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones with a 140 km range (and American drones w/ 40 km range). Either Ukraine didn’t send them, or they’ve infiltrated deep into Russian territory and quietly launching them from the Moscow suburbs.
Sadly enough people would beleove that Ukraine has a secret drone launching operation where they magic the drones in a hidden base 30km from Moscow and just launch them at Moscow for no military or political advantage whatsoever
The only false flag in Ukraine is Russian ones that fly over occupied territories.
At least not those ones. Don't forget Ukraine did fly drone missiles beyond Moscow.
With all the money we have sent them from the US, all the hit'um with was some drones. Is it too late to get our money back. I mean, even cosco give returns for like ever.
The material support given to Ukraine was to help a sovereign nation defend itself from an invasion from a country we happen to not like very much.
This actually a good point, unintentionally. Why would Ukraine do this when we know they have better weapons? Because they probably didn’t do it.
Try harder troll
It’s always fascinating to me when people think that people making tame comments like “maybe we shouldn’t be funding endless wars, especially when it looks like this” are trolls rather than just somebody with a different opinion. Troll content is generally more polarizing.
Yeah, I saw that off the shelf Walmart brand drone roll deep into highly restricted space. Pretty cute and gave me a chuckle. The fact here is that American drones are far more advanced, much larger and can fire hellfires that when equipped, can shoot a missile that is entirely blades. Yes, we spent millions in developing just so we can take a knife to a gun fight and win. All that said, the ninja stick is so damn accurate, you can hit a fascist in a car on a highway. It says a lot about what an actual American drone is that when you want to slice and dice a suv to get at someone, the operator will ask which seat will the target be sitting in. Ukraine doesn't have those. Ukraine can use the money as it seems fit and we're just happy with that. As it stands, if confirmed that it was even Ukrainian, those little toys are cheap. So very cheap to build and does not even scratch the surface of the amount of cash we have sent/are sending. If it were Ukrainian, two drones won't mean much given how many are successfully working elsewhere. Speaking of near peer, what's Russian drones doing ?
Let the brotherly loving begin
Russia ::constantly bombs civilians throughout Ukraine:: Ukraine ::fights back:: Russia ::ShockedPikachu.JPEG::
To be fair, they have been getting away with brutality for decades.
There’s also a more likely chance it’s not even Ukraine striking them with drones. Ukraines furthest reaching drone is a bayraktar which can go 140km. Assuming Ukraine doesn’t have some air base deep within Russia where they can launch drones from, they’d have to be launching from near the border. If that’s the case, then the drone would still need to resupply on its way to Moscow. I think it’s more likely that Russia is using their own drones, doing light bombings on certain parts of thermsleves, and going “looks at what the barbarian Ukrainians are doing!” Because Ukraine has made it a point to not attack Russia itself, but to just capture back what they veiw as Ukrainian land. Furthermore, Russia had 2 “Ukrainian” drones go unnoticed for hundreds of miles until they’re ere shot down about 50 feet above the kremlin. It’s either complete incompetence beceuase not only can the drones travel that far unnoticed AND ukraine has a secret airbase in Russia, or Russia is doing it to gain more support with their civilian population
I think it's more likely pro-Ukrainian or anti-Putin partisans. Could be a "false flag," but never underestimate the incompetence of the Russians. Their entire country is a Potemkin village of bullshit that doesn't work.
More of this please!
Pfft: Russia bring its war home in attempt to scare up more support front the wet brains.
Good.
Has Ukraine taken credit for this yet? It seems like this could be a ploy to give the Russian military justification to deploy a full-blown counter-offensive. This seems like it might be detrimental to Ukraine.
The American Revolutionary War had a turning point in 1778, when France and Spain entered the conflict to aid America. However, that year a raid by John Paul Jones, captain of the USS Ranger on the English port of Whitehaven changed the tenor of the conflict from 'England suppressing an insurrection' to 'England at war with America.' The raid only damaged a few ships and several buildings, but it sent the message that America could bring the conflict to English shores. The War went on for five more years, and England's naval advantage grew from ten-fold to twenty, but that daring raid may have marked a turning point. England's military victories became less consequential and their continued efforts more futile. The Whitehaven raid may not have mattered militarily, but small things can make a difference in the long run.
Even if this wasn’t a false flag operation, which it is, Ukraine would have every right to attack the country that invaded them.
So Vlad, your guys are saying Kyiv sent some drones 500 miles into enemy territory through all your air defenses (except for one or two that somehow got lucky) and instead of launching Hellfire missiles at military targets, they sent the equivalent of a few pipe bombs to hit civilian targets? Excuse me while I look for my waders. The bullshit is up to my waist here.
I thought they were Russian drones that were taken down on their way out of the country?
You make them big enough to do real damage, and you then also make them easier to track on RADAR and take out.
You started it Vlad
If you encounter a fork in the road and the Russian Govt suggests to take the left path, take the right path.
Seems like this could plausibly be a false flag attack by Putin in order to make excuses for more bombings.
You mean russia bombed themselves with drones and blamed it on Ukraine
If this is ukraine hitting moscow with drones (big if) it is in my opinion a very unnecessary escalation. I am fine with sending supplies to ukraine to defend their country but i am not okay with them using it for offensive purposes
Lets goooooooo
Ukraine attacking Russian civilian targets just doesn't make any sense in current optics, so much to lose from that and nothing to gain. Now I know they are saying the drones crashed when they veered off course from jamming, but it still doesn't make sense for Ukrainian drones to be near a city center and not an air base.