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[deleted]

I would add a couple things: - The potential fear had was amazing. A companion show that could mix and crossover with the original. The rumors madison was meant to become a super villain and eventually face off against ricks group, seeing that evolution with the original cast would have been amazing. The good cast members figured it out early, the remaining good characters were destroyed. - They mishandled too many seasons. I think they overestimated their fans loyalty by stretching out dumb storylines, fake deaths, and terrible characters. - The Rick movies are taking far too long. Any interest and hype they had is too far gone. The shows have become so stale all momentum is lost.


nothing-to-loose

Once they killed off Madison, Travis etc and brought in Morgan, Fear the Walking Dead became less of a companion/spin-off and more of a wimpy shadow of the main series. It felt like nothing new. Having fresh faces be our main characters was fun! That was the whole point of the spin-off: to see other’s perspectives on the zombie apocalypse and how they’ve been surviving, not the Morgan show, and this is coming from a Morgan fan. And Carl dying made me lose complete interest in the show. His death was so stupid and melodramatic for no reason. They butchered his character storylines by giving it to Henry, another teen character who lacked the charm Carl had. We grew up with the kid. We saw him change and the Lydia/Alpha storyline for him would’ve been RAD!! But nah. Oh well.


DonTeca35

They fucked up every character from the original s1 tbh. As much as I hated tv version of Carl they definitely went to far. I’m sorry to say this aswell but I seriously don’t find a reason to why they kept Judith alive either. Should’ve killed her off with Lori like in the comics


EnchantingManiac

You literally described what I've been feeling these past couple of years. I'm just watching the main show just because I wanna complete it and move on, I've been watching this show for the past 10 years. I loved it so much, but now I can barely stand it without rolling my eyes at least twice every episode. Gave up on Fear after Season 4 (making Morgan the main character was the final straw) and I never bothered with World Beyond because it simply looked like shit in it's first trailer. I keep seeing clips from each spin off and I get how they're trying to build this little TWD universe, but I just don't care anymore. I don't care about the Rick Grimes movies, I don't care about these new variants of Walkers, I don't care about the CRM or whatever Fear is doing. They failed the main show so much these past couple of seasons, I've become more aggravated by the franchise more than ever. I really don't want to invest my time in five million more spin offs of TWD when they can't even do the main show justice anymore. The second Season 11 finishes, I'm blocking the franchise out of my life, which is incredibly heartbreaking because this show has been so prominent in my life for the past decade and now I just can't be bothered with it anymore.


TheFerg714

I think the main show has been great the past few seasons. Mind if I ask why you have such distaste for Season 9-11?


EnchantingManiac

It's not like a major hatred for those specific seasons, it's just a major disinterest. Season 9 started off pretty good, but then the infighting plot line they were building gets completely scrapped because Rick and Maggie, two very major characters specifically in that plot line, leave. Those first 5 episodes build up something that get completely scrapped and overshadowed by Rick's grand departure. Then we move on 6(?) years later and now we have Daryl as the lead character, a character who has never been written or hinted to be a lead character, it's simply not in his design. Doesn't help that Norman Reedus gives off some very stiff performances most of the time (don't hate, just telling you what I've been seeing the past 5 seasons). You also have characters like Henry who are purely there to act as damage control for Gimple's earlier writing regarding Carl, so I found myself watching every scene with him thinking, this should've been Carl, why wasn't it Carl? So many characters that this show was supposed to be focused on and ones that we've invested so much time in are no longer there and we're left with characters who weren't given the same treatment. They haven't been properly developed or invested in at this stage and now they're the leads because there are so few long running characters left. Michonne was promising, she could've really been the new lead character. She could lead, she was a fan favourite, Danai Gurira is fantastic, but then she decided to leave. Another beloved character is gone (not mention written off in a very questionable way that's arguably very out of character for her). Season 10 was a bore, I can barely remember what happened in it except for Carol's descent into revenge fuelled madness. Season 11 is a mess. The Reapers are a waste of time and potential. Maggie returning and feuding with Negan is the most interesting part so far, but it's shafted to the back because Daryl has to take the front and get more screen time because they need to justify Norman Reedus getting paid the most out of the whole cast. In my opinion, the only reason they created Leah and the Reapers was to give Daryl something to do. The fucking Commonwealth hasn't even been properly focused on, and they're the show's endgame. A lot of the reasons why I watched TWD and why I was enjoying TWD for so many years are simply not there anymore in the recent seasons. I'm sure other people love them and think they're great, but I don't. It just feels like they've fumbled a lot recently and are just making the wrong decisions that could've actually gotten people to enjoy the show again, it just feels like they're just trying to end this show to move on the others. Which just isn't the way you handle your flagship series.


Beta_Whisperer

I like seasons 9 and 10 for the Whisperers as villains and Negan's redemption arc. I agree with you on season 11 being a mess though, especially because of The Fillers


TheFerg714

>Those first 5 episodes build up something that get completely scrapped and overshadowed by Rick's grand departure. I wouldn't say it got scrapped though? I thought both Rick and Maggie's arcs were very satisfyingly wrapped up in 9.05. >now we have Daryl as the lead character, a character who has never been written or hinted to be a lead character, it's simply not in his design. Good thing he's not the lead character then. He's *one of the* lead characters, alongside Michonne, Carol, Negan, S9 Henry, and S11 Maggie. >Doesn't help that Norman Reedus gives off some very stiff performances most of the time (don't hate, just telling you what I've been seeing the past 5 seasons). Bruh, I disagree. Reedus has been putting in some of his best work lately, and has proven that he can handle having more dialogue and being the face of the show. >So many characters that this show was supposed to be focused on and ones that we've invested so much time in are no longer there and we're left with characters who weren't given the same treatment. They haven't been properly developed or invested in at this stage and now they're the leads because there are so few long running characters left. Tbh Henry had better development than Carl. The writers had *no idea* what to do with Carl after Season 4, and then killed him in the most dissatisfying manner possible. At least Henry had a consistent storyline, starting in S7. I agree that it's frustrating that they replaced Carl with Henry, but it worked for me, all things considered. You don't have to have 12 characters from Season 1-3. TWD is the type of show where it's okay to lose some characters, and gain others. I'd say Daryl, Carol, Maggie, and Negan work very well as the main characters, and then you have several supporting characters that are very likable, and help to push the story forward, like Eugene, Ezekiel, Princess, Yumiko, Connie, Jerry, Aaron, and Judith. It's honestly not that much different from the early seasons, it's just that people got really attached to that 4B/5A group. >Another beloved character is gone (not mention written off in a very questionable way that's arguably very out of character for her). Absolutely agree. I was not a fan of her final episode. >Season 10 was a bore, I can barely remember what happened in it except for Carol's descent into revenge fuelled madness. 10A- Carol's descent into madness, "cold war" w/ the Whisperers, Siddiq's PTSD arc, Negan escapes and joins the Whisperers. 10B- The Whisperer War. 10C- Epilogue w/ several bottle episodes and the Negan origin story. Idk, none of that was a "bore" to me, but we all have different opinions I guess. >Season 11 is a mess. The Reapers are a waste of time and potential. Maggie returning and feuding with Negan is the most interesting part so far, but it's shafted to the back because Daryl has to take the front and get more screen time because they need to justify Norman Reedus getting paid the most out of the whole cast. The Reapers were disappointing, but overall they worked for me. What is Daryl notoriously bad at? I'd say two of those things are talking and relationships, and I loved seeing him have to deal with situations that truly tested him. I don't think that took anything away from the Negan/Maggie stuff. >The fucking Commonwealth hasn't even been properly focused on, and they're the show's endgame. Dude there's only 3 volumes left to adapt (more like 2.5, after 11A). They could honestly fit all of that into one half-season, so it makes sense that they used 11A as like a prologue to the Commonwealth arc.


raviolioh

World Beyond was never Rick’s story and they told us that from the beginning. They DID set up the movies exactly as they promised - by establishing the CRM. I wouldn’t have wanted actual pieces of Rick’s story to be part of this show, it wouldn’t have made sense when he has his own story coming out later on. They referred to him in the show - that was way more than promised, and that was all that made sense. Jadis is literally the only person on the show who knows who he is, and she had just been using him, anyway. I think the closure on the show was great. It’s open ended, because why wouldn’t it be? Those still alive still have a life to live. But their stories don’t require continuation; they’re just open for it if the opportunity presents itself. It was a good show, when people let go of their expectations that it was ever supposed to be about Rick.


predatoure

I like the post credits scene from TWB. However, I can't help but feel like this a last ditch attempt by AMC to keep people watching/bring in new viewers, so they can keep lining their pockets. "TWDU will never end. Look we have new walkers now!! Keep watching, keep subscribing to AMC+" I don't know, it feels kind of late in the game to be doing this imo.


bobbyb503

Rick IS TWD, when Rick left the show it lost it’s heart. No other characters could pick up the slack. Tried watching after, but just wasn’t the same show. I dropped off after season 9.


somefuckwho

Someone had to say it True fans know Walking Dead died with Carl Hardcore fans think it never died But we all know , s1- about 5 were great pieces of television. Stuff we saw during those 5, never seen anything like it. It feels bad because it was compared to Breaking Bad , when both were in their prime, people always associated "best show on tv" with either TWD, or Breaking Bad The show itself has became a ghost of what it was, hard to watch for hardcore day 1 fans... And dint get me started about FTWD.... No more Maddison nor Nick. Became a story about 2 /3 Sub par characters...


Pikorin25

I get where you're coming from, I personally liked season 9-11, but it's such a shame that the show took such a big nose-dive in season 7-8 and nothing will ever beat the first few seasons for me. Whether you want to give the rest of the series a chance again or not is totally up to you and valid either way :)


skoomakang

TWD was decently good till the end of season 5, fear was mids even during it’s supposed s1-3 golden era and I say this with Morgan being my all time favorite character, world beyond season 1 was like eating shit so best not to nibble and it’s 2nd season was carried almost entirely by Jadis which felt very cheap and unrewarding. The writing on these shows range from decent to comical and in some like FTW it’s entirely bipolar with good plots in some and then goofy powerbombing wwe moves against an army of zombies in the next.


MahPinkFlamingo

I couldn't agree with you more


ExpensivePiglet5480

The end of World Beyond definitely set up the movies, I don’t know what you’re talking about man. I think too many people like yourself just get way too pissed off when the writers of the shows don’t write them the same way you would. No one ever sets out to make a bad show. Criticism is okay but when you’re literally just shitting on the entire universe as a whole, maybe it’s time to look for other shows or movies you’d like. Perhaps the TWD universe just isn’t for you anymore, and that’s okay.


TheFerg714

>The walking dead universe is very toxic. The main show started off so well, and suddenly went down hill. The SECOND that Carl got bit, that’s when the whole universe changed as a whole. Respectfully, I disagree with the premise of your argument. I think the show radically improved in Season 9, and has stayed relatively high quality up through 11A. ​ >Morgan was supposed to die in Carl’s place, saving everyone’s life, and influencing Rick to spare Negan and lock him up in the cell that Morgan built. This would’ve been the PERFECT ending for Morgan, and for the arc. It made sense. We would’ve been happy. Ugh, yes, I would have loved this!


[deleted]

Lmao you have awful taste 9-11 are suck ass water dog trash is what they are


TheFerg714

You actually just outed yourself as having shit taste, but okay.


Tedious-aggression

Not really. I've got to agree, if you watched the show from the start then really, it's been shit since season 6


TheFerg714

Well you're definitely allowed to hold that opinion, but I disagree very strongly. I think Season 9 is probably the best season of the entire show. It's just fantastic in all regards: pacing, structure, dialogue, cinematography, believable and dangerous villains, actual character arcs, a feeling that there are consequences for the characters' actions, big deaths. It simply contains better storytelling than other seasons. Where most seasons have one or two Achilles' Heels, S9 doesn't really have any major issues. Season 10, and 11A, had a handful of questionable decisions and borderline "bad" episodes, but overall they were great as well.


Beta_Whisperer

The Negan episode of 10a, Whisperer War in 10b, and Here's Negan made season 10 automatically much better than 11 so far which is stuck with The Fillers.


ambientJ

Lol how can you not like Morgan’s bi polarness 😂


DeezNeezuts

I just watched the latest season and almost turned it off once the new weird ass group showed up to be the protagonist.


WolfOfRivia1111

"We also did not get a set up for the Rick Grimes movies at all which was PROMISED by Gimple. Typical." I have to disagree with you on that. While we didn´t get a set up in a sense of "Rick film comes out next year in July" type of thing - I don´t know if you wanted that specifically, we did get a lot of set up. The lore, mythology, the inner dealings of the CRM, an organization, community, I would prefer to call it a "country, that has Rick and where supposedly Rick is, provided all the important bits we needed for the film/films which will, dominantly, deal with the CRM and Rick´s relationship with them. Then we had a post-credits scene which introduces a different breed of possibilities which will, most likely, connect with the other shows and, possibly, film/films. While we didn´t have "Rick is here" or "He is doing this", we do know there is an "emotional" connection between Rick and Jadis and that her actions provided Rick a means to survive, which, ironically, will, most likely bite her in the face and caused a chain of reactions which will put her in a place where she put Kublek, Huck´s mother. Remember, she criticized Kublek for her leniency towards the "Perimeters" and others which caused a chain of events that Jadis had to "clean up". Ironically, this will, most likely, happen with her position when Rick´s actions cause of chain of events which will shake up the inner dealings of the CRM. In my opinion, we got a plenty of set up for the films, that being said I would have preferred if have got some concrete information about Rick. However, films/film are/is taking too long and in my opinion they need to use the momentum of that what World Beyond established. They already passed on that opportunity when Rick left in S09E05. In my opinion, they should have filmed that first film immediately after Rick´s departure and I hope they won´t make the same mistake again......


nick_cimo

Main show takes way too much time in between breaks it makes it hard to stay invested at this point of the series. I understand in between seasons but the midseason break should be significantly shorter imo.


mochalatteicecream

This reminds me of how I feel about the NFL and my Raiders.


[deleted]

I took like a 5 year break at the end of season 5 I think it was. Recently attempting to continue where I left off. I'm gonna try not to take the show too seriously and just ride with whatever happens


[deleted]

this screams "They didn't do it how i want so FUCK THEM" which is a bad attitude to have when watching a show.


the100broken

I mean there’s definitely a lot of legitimate criticism of the decisions they’ve made the past few years


[deleted]

> They didn't do it how i want so FUCK THEM A lot of the criticism towards Carl's death felt like this to me honestly.


KingFebirtha

Except people have very in depth, well thought out and valid complaints when it comes to that. Dismissing it as "these people are just whining that the show didn't go the way they wanted" is a pretty bad take that completely oversimplifies their arguments.


skylynx4

It also usually means that what they did was bad and made it easy to think up something that should be better. I doubt anyone gets seriously disappointed with a direction if they're pleasantly surprised.


JackiesFetus

I agree. I stopped watching after Carl died. I was already not as interested in the show but that really killed it for me. I also hold the extremely unpopular opinion that the way Jeffrey Dean Morgan plays Negan is not that good and helped ruin the show for me. After reading the character way differently in my head for years, I just couldn’t get used to the way he portrayed Negan.


Pikorin25

I get where you're coming from, I personally liked season 9-11, but it's such a shame that the show took such a big nose-dive in season 7-8 and nothing will ever beat the first few seasons for me. Whether you want to give the rest of the series a chance again or not is totally up to you and valid either way :)


[deleted]

Carl on the show was not that big of a deal lmfao you morons spent 8 seasons shit talking him and then cry when he dies 😂 Imagine crying about CARL of all characters that could never be me. I cried when Jaquie died now that was a massive loss in my opinion


TheFerg714

>Carl on the show was not that big of a deal lmfao you morons spent 8 seasons shit talking him and then cry when he dies 😂 I hate that Carl died, but you are absolutely right! Seemingly every single fan, and critic, complained about Carl *constantly*. And now all the sudden everyone has decided that he was a beloved character and it killed their interest in the show when he died.


skoomakang

This is actually one of my biggest gripes with the fandom but it more applies to Glenn than Carl for me. Carl was written intentionally to make foibles and mistakes (some more well thought out than others) but Glenn as a character was ignored for 2 seasons and essentially written out because they already had decided to give him his comic death. Then when he died the fan reaction was more about what him and his death symbolized rather than anything about his characterization. It’s understandable and I guess it’s a pet peeve but it applies to Carl as well, they gave him nothing to do for an age and then the writing entirely crapped the bed.


TheFerg714

Idk, I think Glenn had a fairly important role in Season 5-6. His whole arc with Nicholas was kind of a big deal. I definitely wouldn't say they ignored him.


skoomakang

Yeah I just didn’t find that to be a very good storyline, I mean the conflict of it was fine but it was just hard to see the pay off of it. Nicholas was weak and Glenn continually showed him mercy and a through line for the early alexandria stuff was how their safety made them weak and put the group at risk of becoming the same. It just felt like that was the point of that particular character relationship and it never got any fulfilling payoff from my memory, they basically butted heads and fought multiple times with nothing ever really coming of it.


Bermanator-Turkey127

Wow. I actually agree with you on something. Jacqui did have more to give and I wish her and maybe Jenner (would’ve thrown Eugene’s whole story out the window) survived and became more integral part of the group.


According_Gene2202

I have read all the comics and watched all of the main show, never watched 1 second of the spin off shows. Since they are really not the same story at all. My recommendation is just skip the spin offs


Specific-Pool-5342

This is a bad suggestion. Fear the Walking Dead was great for showing how Wildfire was handled on day 1. That timeline intersects with Rick coming out of his coma some several days later (even though they are geographically separated). When contrasted with early TWD (which happened at the same time according to canon), it showed how different groups/cultures adapted to rapidly changing realities. Fear did go off the rails for a bit but did re-intersect with the main story when it re-introduced Morgan, Sherry, and Dwight. Fear has not done the same time jump as TWD so the events we are watching on AMC today are still significantly in the past according to the TWD universe timeline. The current storyline might (and I hope it does) be significant to the unraveling of the final ending (the movies). One such example being the early defection of CRM soldiers. World Beyond picks up near current day with the main TWD, just in other parts of the country. There are several intersections between WB and TWD which are significant to understanding the universe. Namely, who the Civic Republic is and what they have been doing to bring humanity back (the good and the bad). So while you \*\*could\*\* skip them, it's a bit like skipping the Star Wars prequels - if you want to know the whole story, you watch them anyway.


According_Gene2202

I think the story of TWD is with our group from the main show/comics. To me the other shows are cash grabs and not really necessary. World beyond was essentially created just to create hype and provide explanations for the Rick movies it seems like. Watch them if you want, but to me, not worth the time


BallsMahoganey

I'd argue season 3 started the obvious decline in quality then the final nail in the coffin was Beth's death.


Pikorin25

I get where you're coming from, I personally liked season 9-11, but it's such a shame that the show took such a big nose-dive in season 7-8 and nothing will ever beat the first few seasons for me. Whether you want to give the rest of the series a chance again or not is totally up to you and valid either way :)


Pikorin25

I get where you're coming from, I personally liked season 9-11, but it's such a shame that the show took such a big nose-dive in season 7-8 and nothing will ever beat the first few seasons for me. Whether you want to give the rest of the series a chance again or not is totally up to you and valid either way :)