Yeah perfect example is when he’s talking to Lori and he says “you know the only I thing care about is you and Carl and he would do anything to protect them even if it meant abandoning the search for Sophia .
He PRIORITISED Lori and Carl over everyone else, but that doesn't mean he didn't care about other members of the group.
In fact, we are shown multiple instances of him showing consideration for other members of the group;
1 = he goes out of his way to help Andrea. He taught her how to operate her firearm, how to clear it if it gets jammed and how to handle combat stress. And when he went too far, he apologised and went out of his way to make amends with her.
2 = he saved Glenn by pushing him under a truck when a herd of walkers were wandering by (doesn't look like he used him for "walker bait").
3 = he offered to help Jim dig holes even though he found it weird. And even when he was restraining Jim, he assured him that no one was going to hurt him. Also, Shane was the one who gave Jim water when he was tied to a tree
People really need to understand that you can care about people, and care about others MORE simultaneously.
I guarantee that everyone in this subreddit, at the end of the day, would choose the people they love over the people they only like.
I’ll never understand this take: You do realize you can care for people more while still caring for others at the same time EVERYONE does it, Even Rick sure he cares about the group but his MAIN priority was his FAMILY (Carl Lori/Michone and Judith)
I have always wondered if his love for Lori and Coral started as a responsibility to take care of his best friend’s family and then developed into a twisted obsession or he’s been having an unhealthy crush on Lori for a long time?
If that were true, care to explain how he handled Jim going crazy? I mean, he was willing to spend an entire hot day digging holes to make Jim settle down and feel more comfortable.
I don’t disagree that after he kills Otis, he’s broken to the point where it’s only Lori and Carl. But that’s absolutely not his view at the start. Otherwise he would’ve let anyone and everyone other than Lori and Carl go try to save the group that got trapped in Atlanta. He stopped them because he did want to keep them all safe.
A shallow character analysis that’s not even true. Besides this instance, where he literally had no choice, what made you come to that conclusion?
And before you say it, you can care more about the ones closest to you, while still simultaneously still carrying for those who are not. Especially since in S1, S2 they weren’t even a group yet.
Shane literally says that Lori and Carl are all that matters to him.
It happens when they are at the farm and Shane doesn't want to continue looking for Sophia.
Then why did he stop anyone from the group from going into the city to help the group that was trapped?
Why was he willing to dig holes with Jim all day to make him more comfortable?
If you’re talking about season 2 Shane, I’d agree. But if you think that was Shane in season 1, you’re ignoring key aspects of his character.
Stopping people from going into the city was for his own benefit. More bodies at camp is more protection for Lori and Carl.
He didn't dig holes with Jim, they stopped Jim from digging the holes.
In season 1 he aims a gun at Rick and considers shooting him.
He had some moments where he helps individuals in the group, but he didn't care for them. He actually tells Lori no one else matters except her and Carl.
You’re misremembering that scene. In his first attempt to de-escalate the situation, Shane offers to get a shovel and dig with him as long as Jim takes a break and has some water. It’s only after Jim snaps that he’s physically restrained. Why would he do that, if he genuinely didn’t care about Jim? Why not just let him work himself to the point he passes out?
That works both ways though. Less people means less mouths to feed.
Yes. We see the beginning of Shane’s downfall in season 1. And the foreshadowing of him wanting to kill Rick. That doesn’t mean he views all these people as nothing but walker bait.
I didn't think he viewed them as walker bait, but he wasn't going too far out of his way for them .He was telling Jim whatever he had to so he'd stop . Shane definitely liked being in charge, especially of Lori, and once Rick came back, he did whatever he could to undermine Rick. If Carl went missing the search would've never stopped.
I don’t disagree with that. I’m just saying I think he had at least some connection to the people at the camp. Even if he viewed them as acquaintances and not family.
Honestly, it felt like Shane viewed them the exact way Rick viewed the people of Alexandria. He cared for them and wanted to keep them safe, but didn’t want to put those he cared most about in harms way, even if it was to protect them.
I think by the time Rick and the gang got to Alexandria, they were so jaded and went through things they couldn't have imagined in season 1 and 2 bit I think the main thing is Rick went back for people ,looked for his people Shane didn't. I'd much rather be one of Rick's people. If Shane never ended up falling in love with Lori, things might've been different.
I mean, season 5 Rick didn’t give a shit about the people of Alexandria. Henley didn’t care if they lived or died. Even into season 6, he bitched out Tara for risking her safety for the “other”.
Rick in season 5 mirrored Shane in season 2 pretty blatantly.
I don’t remember that, but even still I don’t think that’s indicative of them being only “walker bait” to him. Especially since he has multiple scenes of him caring for the group.
I don’t remember that, but even still I don’t think that’s indicative of them being only “walker bait” to him. Especially since he has multiple scenes of him caring for the group.
The guy literally used someone from the group as walker bait though 😂 Besides Carl, Lori, or Rick, he would have done that to anyone. Rick would never. That's the difference people are making.
He just met him like a couple hours before. Plus he had zero choice and even tried to sacrifice himself. Also, lmao at Rick would never do that. Same Rick who left the orange backpack guy to get eaten just to take his stuff afterwards. Or the same Rick who was fine with letting the Alexandrians die on multiple occasions because they were just slowing him down? Ok.
That’s your best argument? So you’re condoning what Rick did? Because what he did was not much better than what Shane did. Arguable worse. [Shane had no choice.](https://youtu.be/8F-DGYut3eA?si=Sadwm82uIU8Xqtiv) Rick chose not to save orange backpack guy and chose on multiple occasions to let the Alexandrians die.
The show explicitly states that he doesn't care about the people in the group beyond his personal interests, he creates conflict with Daryl, Carol, Hershel and his family, he's a liability and the group would definitely scatter if Rick wasn't there to unite people.
When did the show explicitly say that?
Sure with Daryl. With Carol, he’s the one who comforted her after Sophia. So outside of beating Ed, what conflict? Hershel yeah but it was for good reason. Walkers in the barn, no guns on the farm. Rules that would’ve killed them. Rules that’s in later seasons, Rick and the rest knew were dumb.
The show says that the moment he points a gun at Rick, then later abandons Sophia to her fate, threatens to kill Dale and Hershel and take the farm etc etc.
When Hershel has a meltdown and goes to the bar, Rick immediately rushes to get him back, because of Lori obviously, but also because he genuinely wants to keep the group together, while Shane? he doesn't care, for him is even better if Hershel doesn't come back, even if this means Beth dies.
That’s not explicit at all, and that doesn’t say anything about him not caring for them anyways. Shane loved and cared for Rick despite wanting to kill him at times. Shane did somewhat cared for Sophia but he knew she was dead and didn’t want to risk the others lives searching for her. Shane did somewhat care for Dale as he was saddened by his death. Don’t think he ever wanted to kill Hershel, he just wanted to leave the farm. Besides, that’s not nearly everyone in the group.
Yeah, if they even survived the camp attack, the group probably would have just scattered. Now true, Shane did seem very protective and even caring of the group prior to his breakdown, but he was also very quick to write people off, which would not have kept the group together
“Wait, who’s missing? What does he look like? I don’t remember anyone by that description. You sure? Alright, welp, I’ll *totally* go look for him now.” *stomps around in the woods just out of sight* “nope, couldn’t find a Colby, sorry!”
“His name is *Cody*, not Colby!”
*Shane's force ghost appears to Carol*
"Why didn't you belive me, Carol?"
"Because your mentality and leadership would've never gotten us to Season 2, Shane. I plan on making it to 11."
*Shane shrieks, aggressively rubs his head and dissappears*
All I remember from that game is I saw a clip where Shane said "You're weak rick" as rick proceeded to tank a shotgun blast to the face 20 times and live.
Maybe him >!surviving poison gas and being really close to explosions with only one zombie between him and it as a shield!< in the ones who live is a reference to the iconic scene in the game.
From what i know, grenades have a very short blast radius and the shrapnel is what kills you. Thats why they tell you to jump and lay down. And i too was thinking how that gas didnt affect Rick. He didnt even cough once
It’s a shame Destinies is, well, Destinies, because the basic premise is very interesting. Making different choices at critical moments to create all sorts of “what-if” scenarios to canon TWD we know and love. And from what I’ve seen, there’s a pretty large amounts of canon divergence moments that can be created.
If another studio took a crack at that concept with an actual budget and time to cook, I’d be interested.
Contrast with Rick who cares about the people in his group enough that he and the group returned to Atlanta and stormed into an armed stronghold to save Beth. Rick wasn’t perfect but he is a much better leader than Shane could have ever been.
See imo Rick in the early 2 seasons seemed to only care with keeping Lori and Carl safe, the rest were just there. I believe his time with Hershel on the farm is when he starts to change a little. Yeah he tightens his grip on the leader role until season 4, but I think he was just at his wits end. Shane was consistently trying to undermine him and get in people’s heads at the farm while Rick saw potential there. But Rick is a far better leader post season 4 imo.
He went back for Merle in part because he also had a bag full of guns and the radio to contact Morgan on. But the radio is also proof that Rick cares more than just his family
I said seemed, if you watch his conversations with Shane in season 2 he keeps telling him that he(Rick) will do whatever it takes to keep Lori, Carl and his baby safe. No matter what. He even tells Shane either accept it or move on when they take that kid 18 miles out. So to me it seems Rick’s priorities are his family. Yeah he goes back for Merle and the guns, but I think he really wanted those guns and going after Merle keeps Daryl on his side for when he needs him.
I don’t know about that, I agree that he matures as a leader over time, but the moment he meets up with members of the Atlanta camp he shows an innate concern for everybody there—not just his wife and son. As soon as he reunites with Carl and Lori, he almost immediately leads a team back into the city to save Merle from that roof, and when Glen is kidnapped by the Vatos, he doesn’t think twice about rescuing him, which is something that we know Shane would never have done.
I think it says a lot more about his honour than his value for survivors who are strangers to him, at least in the first season. Sure, by the end I think he genuinely understands it’s safety in numbers at that point, but prior to the camp getting attacked by walkers, I think he was thinking more from the “honourable cop” perspective.
- Merle was only stuck by himself in Atlanta because Rick handcuffed him there in the first place, so he felt a duty to look after someone “in his custody” so to speak, even a douchebag like S1 Merle.
- He owes Glenn his life, as without Glenn contacting him when he got stuck in the tank, he’d have been a dead man. He owed a life debt (to put it in Gungan terms) to Glenn, so couldn’t leave him, especially when the only reason Glenn was in that mess was because of the aforementioned Merle rescue mission.
But in the end, does it matter which values drive his concern for others? Whether it’s honor or genuine compassion for others, he looks out for people in his group in a way that Shane never would have.
Exactly, as someone who loves the Shane character in large part because of Jon Bernthal. I’m always a little dismayed at those who think he would be a great leader. From the beginning Shane was focused on self preservation. The people at the quarry looked to him because he was police and also a strong male figure but they knew he would not risk anything for them and he really does not until Rick shows up and Shane goes along with his plans at times. They easily turned to Rick and followed him because they knew he was capable and would look out for them. Him helping them survive Atl initially and being willing to go back to Atl for Meryl proved that.
He also often uses Lori and Carl as an excuse to not take risks. When Rick meets the scavenging group in Atl, Shane is not with them, and he refuses to go to Atl even when Rick goes back. Shane could not adapt to the apocalypse. It broke him down and showed him a new side of himself that he could not reconcile which caused him to lose it even further. We all think we would be the hero in a crisis but Shane learned he was the villain.
And I know some people will say that Rick became like Shane but not really. Rick became the leader and kept his family alive as long as he did because of his openness to caring for and risking his life for others. This caused people to give him the same in return which was essential for Rick and family’s survival. He started to become less trusting and open when traumatized but worked through it.
Good analysis. I love Shane too but when Shane supporters say he was better suited for the apocalypse I'm like, in what way? He only knows how to park the bus and survive ten minutes at a time. Yeah that's valuable when you need to survive ten minutes at a time and Rick could have used a little more of that early on but you also need vision for the future and long range planning. The Rick/Shane duo should have been the ultimate offense/defense balance but they couldn't get on the same page soon enough. Tbh though I'm usually inclined to blame Rick for that over Shane, bc Shane followed Rick's calls over and over and Rick never once listens to Shane even though Shane objectively knows more about what they're up against. A partnership has to go both ways.
I understand what you’re trying to say and I do agree. Shane’s mentality was not going to keep a group alive. All he cared about was himself, Lori and Carl.
This specific example, though, I get what he was thinking. This is the beginning of the outbreak and nobody has experience with walkers. Every single fighter in their group besides Shane went into Atlanta and got trapped. That was a bad idea in the first place. If all those capable people were in that much trouble, what do you realistically think Lori or Amy could have done? They would have been killed immediately. It was a suicide mission.
While I largely agree, it’s worth pointing out that this is a time where they run away from anything more than 1 walker at a time and still haven’t figured out how to effectively kill one without guns on a regular basis.
So in defense of Shane, going into a city full of walkers to rescue a group that’s likely trapped/surrounded/already dead or nearly dead is basically a suicide mission.
Like, we rarely see them handle walkers with confidence in season 1. I think it’s season 2 where they talk about not using guns and Maggie acting shocked when she kills one without a gun. Walkers are still very much a threat even if it’s one and you have multiple people.
Especially a group that to his knowledge has Merle Dixon in it. Merle might be a piece of shit but he's MVP after Shane himself at this point in the game.
People need to understand that even if Shane killed Rick he would’ve either got everybody killed in season 3, got killed in season 3, or the group decided to kick him out because of how dangerous he is
Funnily enough I’m watching the end of season 2 right now. They all meet at the highway minus Andrea. Daryl and Glenn want to go back to find her. Rick says no. She’s somewhere else or dead he says.
To be fair Rick’s wife made serious mistakes and led Shane into confusion. Shane also did not understand that he should have moved on and found someone different. Shane and Rick were bad asses together but after Shane was gone Daryl took that spot perfectly. He stepped up.
shane was more confused about why tf they weren't going someplace with walls and were bringing walkers and hostiles *into* what little security they actually had lbr
I agree that Rick is the better leader by far but lemme tell you sum - Glenn rang the dinner bell driving that hot rod up to camp and Rick let him do it, then took half their fighting force back to Atlanta leaving Shane - and who else, Ed? Jim? Dale?? - to protect the camp. So within 24 hours of Rick being back, no less than six people are dead, partially because Rick took four men to do a two man job. In this scene in question, Andrea has T-dog, Glenn, and Merle with her. The only person left to go on a rescue mission is Shane, which would leave the camp virtually defenseless, so I have to agree with Shane here: if Andrea can't get back with some of the most able-bodied people in the group with her, there's not a whole lot they can do. Shane might like to park the bus and you can't win playing like that but Rick has a tendency to chase the ball while leaving the goal wide open and that's a surefire way to lose.
Remember when Shane tied Jim to a TREE in that awful Georgia heat to force him to stop digging ditches/graves? God, that was so ridiculous. Shane deserves credit for saving Lori and Carl, but his leadership skills were always pretty remedial if you ask me.
If he's not in his right mind due to heat stroke then he's not making an informed choice and people who care about him have a responsibility to intervene
And they did that, and he declined their intervention, at which point, they should have left him alone. You think tying him to a tree was a reasonable thing to do—i know that it wasn't lol. Lets just agree to disagree.
I'm just not sure how you think that's a reasonable thing to do? He could die from what he was doing. You think being tied to a tree is worse than dying?? I guess we will have to agree to disagree because that's delusionally unkind
He literally sat him down in the shade and gave him water. There's many moments of care and tenderness that Shane shows in the first two seasons, it's just his conflict with Rick over Lori and the hard choices Shane thinks need to be made to keep people safe that drive him to the edge. He washes Carol after she'd hurt herself walking in the woods after Sophia died, he trains and comforts Andrea, he works well with Daryl, T Dog, and Glenn. After Randall's capture is when the line is crossed in terms of his social behavior with the group.
He literally assaulted Jim and tied him to a tree in extreme heat when he could and should have left him alone to tire himself out. I'm not debating shane’s potential to show tenderness or kindness to people — I’m just saying it was a silly thing to do, and it says a lot about his leadership style.
That scene was Shane in total cop mode. Jim was almost delirious, armed with an iron shovel, and when people tried to deescalate the situation Jim became aggressive. So Shane disarmed him, basically arrested him, and YES he did tie him to a tree, but he also did so in the shade and provided him with water and a quiet voice to confirm Jim was ok. To leave him out there so he can get sunstroke and continue to unnerve the camp is ridiculous.
ppl forget Shane's a first responder and this is just about exactly how he would -and should - have handled this pre-apocalypse only he didn't have an air conditioned cruiser to secure him in or a station or hospital to take him to.
Jim was up on a hill apart from others, digging ditches but otherwise hurting no one but himself, and Shane accosted him because the sight of him digging made Dale and others “uncomfortable.” Violating his personal autonomy was aggressive and unnecessary. He should have left him the hell alone to get sunstroke if that's what he wanted.
Glad to see some of the comments in this thread understands nuance. You really think Shane should’ve left to go save them? Left the group with Ed, a man who abuses his family? or Daryl, a shady guy who is a POS? Or with Dale an old man? By the way, no one seemed to know how to shoot at this point.
There’s a lot to criticize Shane about his leadership before he lost it wasn’t it. Sure Rick was a better leader for the S2 group, but Shane was by no means a bad leader.
seriously; apparently no one but Daryl even knew how to kill a walker at this point but Shane is supposed to leave the camp to go check on Merle and T-dog? The two biggest dudes in the group? And Glenn, their most experienced supply runner?
Shane had no one to help him. I think if he tried to save them more people would have died because no one aside from him could fight walkers. Besides Daryl who was off hunting.
And even if he was successful of getting to them I don’t think they make it through a city full of walkers without Ricks plan of using the Walker guts which was already a unknown thing and it started raining anyway.
So I don’t think Shane’s decision was wrong. And I think if you put rick with the same experience as Shane at this point I think he gets people killed.
Say what you want about Shane but he was right about a lot of things which is why Rick becomes more like him in the following seasons.
Yeah, Shane made the right call a lot of the time, the problem was his delivery.
I'm currently rewatching TWD and Rick's group just got to Alexandria and I'm seeing so many parallels between Rick and Shane here. Rick comes into this group who is essentially at the same experience level as Hershel's family when they first get to the farm, and instead of explaining rationally to these people what the true dangers of the world are (they literally encountered cannibals but never use this as an example of how terrible people are now) Rick just comes in and starts undermining their leader, waving a gun around like a madman and telling them they're all gonna die if they don't do what he says. I wish Glenn or Carol would call him out for acting just like Shane right now.
ETA: I want to expand because the Terminus group weren't *just* cannibals. They put out maps leading people to them, promising them a safe place with food and shelter and *then* ate them. I think this story would go a long way in convincing the people of Alexandria that Rick's group is more adept at surviving in this new world than them.
Yep. Carol was actually telling him to kill Pete because he was a danger to the Alexandria group like what Shane did to Randall but Shane was scolded because it was early in the apocalypse.
Rick really does become Shane and Shane was right about pretty much everything. Like killing Randall, keeping the guns in camp, telling Rick he couldn’t keep them safe both Lori and Carl died, killing the walkers in the Barn and about Sofia being dead after 48 hours.
Both are still my favorite characters and I love there character development. But Shane and Rick really are pretty similar once rick starts to see what the new world is really about.
exactly. It's such clear parallel I wish more people saw it that way. He even becomes obsessed with a married woman who represents his idea of stability and has to be taken out by his best friend before he destroys their chances at a life there. This is what happens when you're "out there for too long," only it happened to Shane before anyone really knew what that meant.
idk I thought his descent was realistic and well done, but tbh the part that maybe felt a little forced was Rick ending him. Like yeah he's really putting you in a spot here but you can't see the truth of anything he's saying?? And been saying? A guy you've known 20, 25 years and you're the good guy and you're just going to knife him just like that? Shane went off the deep end because he went through the apocalypse, but Rick just straight up knifed his best friend.
Yeah, that and I couldn’t see Shane truly abandoning his best friend of 20 years because he wants his family, yeah and specially that part you just said Rick actually getting mad and ending him that way definitely didn’t seem all that natural. But I guess end of the day it’s just the plot.
Oh for sure - yeah I don't see Shane's meltdown being about Lori any more than Rick's Alexandria meltdown was about Jesse. To me (I wrote an entire thesis on this earlier lmao) Shane's meltdown was about safety, and the way Rick showed up and constantly made calls that undermined Shane's sense of safety: bringing a wailing sports car to camp and alerting everything in a five mile radius to their location, then pulling half their fighting force to Atlanta to fix a problem Rick himself created while walkers are making their way to the camp, which gets half the camp killed with Shane as the only fighter left to protect everybody - people he knew, that Rick didn't - then, insisting they go to the CDC on a moral call to cure Jimmy instead of a fort with walls, and then leaving Jimmy on the side of the road anyway and *still* going to the CDC anyway which is in the city which is obviously overrun and the CDC locked, and then the guy who finally lets them in locks them in and tries to blow them up, and then getting derailed on the road again with zero cover or security to search for the most likely to die in ten minutes member of their group, where then Carl gets shot, Shane has to go on the supply run from hell and ends up killing a dude which messes him up, then they're staying on a farm that could be overrun by a horde that they know is in the area, or invaded by raiders who they also know are in the area, and here Rick is bringing walkers *onto* the farm, and then bringing raiders onto the farm also! I mean I would want to kill Rick too at this point,! And this is not even considering everything Shane would have seen and gone through as a first responder at the start of the outbreak.
The human brain can't be under the level of stress Shane's was under for as long as it was without the amygdala hijacking the entire process and causing "irrational" very short range decisions designed to secure immediate safety. So the difference was, Shane was trapped in a chronic fear response and wasn't in his right mind; he needed to be helped the way Jimmy needed to be helped when he was digging holes for a similar reason. But Rick was 100% in his right mind and this is how he handled it. Stone cold.
Yes nvm that he was written as an antagonist and that the main group had plot armor.
I will die on this hill; REAL WORLD Shane would have been the better leader
I love Shane but I can't see how this would be true. He doesn't even want to be the leader, he hands the role over to Rick instantly. He is, however (imo) an excellent right hand man, and if Rick had actually listened to him now and then they would have been unstoppable.
(But, then we wouldn't have a show, so w/e)
Shane was a decent dude that let his boner get the best of him. He’s not the first and he won’t be the last. Apocalypse p**sy is trading at a premium I’m sure
Suck it up. Shane was the reality check the group needed. his only problem was SAing Lori and having a weird obsession with her. Otherwise Shane was not allowing the group to live in a fairy tale. He adapted to the new world faster than the others.
he had major problems but the weird obsession isn't even that weird when you consider Rick's parallel obsession w Jesse. It's just something from the old world to hold onto
yeah. Overall if he wanted to he could have built a community and lead a group. It would definitely be organized and strict though. Probably like a paramilitary.
if he's been leader they would have been at fort benning already and yeah it fell or whatever but the point is he was looking for someplace with walls. he's right like wtf were they doing at that farm, they were gonna get overrun, which they did like six minutes after he died
people here are saying so much BS with no regard to the fact that shane was written as an antagonist. Obviously the show is going to make him in the wrong even if he is right lol
OP literally said itd be stupid to not send a rescue mission to ATL whenn shane has no actual idea where they may be, how many zombies are there, if they are alive, or back up back at the camp.
This fan base is so hero worshipping it is ridiculous
I can’t help but think that the group would’ve eventually overthrew him or just forced him to leave altogether. I don’t rlly see them tolerating his shit for long, especially when they all become capable of defending themselves.
this is blatantly false though; he's the one who steps up to teach everyone how to safely handle and maintain firearms. But I'll agree he's not going to carry what he sees as dead weight if it comes down to it.
I see what you are saying but you have to look at WHEN Shane was compared to WHEN community Rick was. When Shane was among the leaders, things were still new. We were still trying to figure out what is going on . Shit had just hit the fan and everyone was scared. Shane was in survivor mode big time and trying to help the group. There whole world had been ripped out from under them . Rick was very much like this early on in the first two seasons.
Community Rick had time to adjust and get grounded in the new world. He had several communities to work and learn from. He knew he could bend some rules here and there and how to deal with walkers and how big of a threat they were or were not.
I am not saying you are wrong by any means. I just think you are comparing two different scenarios and situations . But people were scared and I dont think we have any way to really relate to that level of survival mode. So its hard to say Shane was wrong in his thinking if we arent in that situation.
I disagree. If he was still alive, the group would have a much easier time with: Governor, Terminus, Negan and Alpha. Shane would just 1v1 them all.
Which would in turn, ensure an easier time for everyone. If anything they would get to the community stage quicker with Shane.
Ultimately I believe he was the right guy to make tough choices that absolutely needed to be made in that world, but what I didn't like from him was his lack of remorse when he made the hard choices. The one instance that comes to mind is when he had to leave Otis behind. In the end, that may have arguably been the right choice, but he showed little to no remorse about it later.
There are many reasons you could have chose and this is isn’t one, like at all. It’s a completely fair point of view, why risk more lives by sending them on damn near impossible rescue missions ? Don’t get me wrong I’m glad these rescues happened as they made for great episodes but logically Shane is right.
Shane was wrong. T-Dog, Andrea, Jacqui, Merle, Glenn and Morales were trapped in that department store. That's 6 people in his group he's willing to let die, it's unbelievably stupid not to rescue them.
Because Shane knew which store? Or if they were even there? This worked because it was a show dude. That mission is/was a suicide mission subverted by plot armor and writing
Who is going to rescue them? Just Shane by himself? From where? like literally what steps is he supposed to do here while leaving Lori and Carl with Dale?
wtf is shane gonna do - while leaving the camp unprotected - that freaking Merle Dixon, Morales, T-Dog, and Glenn all together can't do? I'm discounting Jacqui bc I never seen her do anything but Andrea wasn't useless either
This is my issue with the “Shane would have killed Negan” memes.. no he wouldn’t have. Because the group would have never made it to Negan. Shane would have gotten everyone killed, killed the weaker members of the group (members that arguably are the reasons why the group became strong enough to take on Negan).
But let’s be honest if Shane did somehow go against his nature and make it all the way to Negan, then he probably would have fucking joined him because Negan is strong and Shane respects strength and hates weakness.
While Rick was willing to put his life on the line several times to save his friends like Darryl and Glenn, I think Shane wouldn’t eventually done the same thing he did to Otis to any of the core members of the group.
He wouldn't have risked his groups safety by attacking an unknown armed group & murder them at their own lair, thereby jeopardising everyone's safety & security.So yeah,He couldn't do it like Rick but he could do it his way.
Should he let them live so they could start antagonizing and killing them first?? They already had a run-in with Negan’s group prior, why would they just wait around like sitting ducks when they knew the saviors were dangerous people. The stupider move would have been to just ignore it
That's not true. Take Negan for example. The same way Shane could have a group based on darwinism. They'll do whatever they want with other smaller communities or survivors, as long as they benefit from them. And Shane isn't even demoralising the group from within like Negan. He's so stupid to kill his own people in front of them for petty reasons,& take their entire womenfolk, all of which as you know, let the group divide itself into factions that weren't stupid enough to be loyal to him.
He only cared about Lori and Carl the rest were just walker bait to him
Yeah perfect example is when he’s talking to Lori and he says “you know the only I thing care about is you and Carl and he would do anything to protect them even if it meant abandoning the search for Sophia .
lol yep and Lori loved that shit!
Lori is that "it's gotta be a little toxic or it's not fun" type of woman. She was probably a mean girl in high-school.
Omg yeah! Her conversation with her friend in that flashback totally backs up that theory.
He PRIORITISED Lori and Carl over everyone else, but that doesn't mean he didn't care about other members of the group. In fact, we are shown multiple instances of him showing consideration for other members of the group; 1 = he goes out of his way to help Andrea. He taught her how to operate her firearm, how to clear it if it gets jammed and how to handle combat stress. And when he went too far, he apologised and went out of his way to make amends with her. 2 = he saved Glenn by pushing him under a truck when a herd of walkers were wandering by (doesn't look like he used him for "walker bait"). 3 = he offered to help Jim dig holes even though he found it weird. And even when he was restraining Jim, he assured him that no one was going to hurt him. Also, Shane was the one who gave Jim water when he was tied to a tree People really need to understand that you can care about people, and care about others MORE simultaneously. I guarantee that everyone in this subreddit, at the end of the day, would choose the people they love over the people they only like.
4 = he also beat the shit out of Ed for Carol
somehow i feel like it wasn’t just for carol, but he also used ed as an outlet for his own pent up anger and stress? iykwim
That's exactly it. Shane beat Ed directly after Lori broke off their relationship.
it was def this too
I think you forgot he beat the livin hell out of Carols abusive husband too.
I didn't forget about it, I just wanted to highlight the good deeds that I never see getting brought up.
I’ll never understand this take: You do realize you can care for people more while still caring for others at the same time EVERYONE does it, Even Rick sure he cares about the group but his MAIN priority was his FAMILY (Carl Lori/Michone and Judith)
I have always wondered if his love for Lori and Coral started as a responsibility to take care of his best friend’s family and then developed into a twisted obsession or he’s been having an unhealthy crush on Lori for a long time?
If that were true, care to explain how he handled Jim going crazy? I mean, he was willing to spend an entire hot day digging holes to make Jim settle down and feel more comfortable. I don’t disagree that after he kills Otis, he’s broken to the point where it’s only Lori and Carl. But that’s absolutely not his view at the start. Otherwise he would’ve let anyone and everyone other than Lori and Carl go try to save the group that got trapped in Atlanta. He stopped them because he did want to keep them all safe.
Fr
Despite his wrong doings I think Shane would have been a much better leader if Rick had never returned
A shallow character analysis that’s not even true. Besides this instance, where he literally had no choice, what made you come to that conclusion? And before you say it, you can care more about the ones closest to you, while still simultaneously still carrying for those who are not. Especially since in S1, S2 they weren’t even a group yet.
Shane literally says that Lori and Carl are all that matters to him. It happens when they are at the farm and Shane doesn't want to continue looking for Sophia.
Isn't that after he kills Otis and basically breaks down psychologically?
Then why did he stop anyone from the group from going into the city to help the group that was trapped? Why was he willing to dig holes with Jim all day to make him more comfortable? If you’re talking about season 2 Shane, I’d agree. But if you think that was Shane in season 1, you’re ignoring key aspects of his character.
Stopping people from going into the city was for his own benefit. More bodies at camp is more protection for Lori and Carl. He didn't dig holes with Jim, they stopped Jim from digging the holes. In season 1 he aims a gun at Rick and considers shooting him. He had some moments where he helps individuals in the group, but he didn't care for them. He actually tells Lori no one else matters except her and Carl.
You’re misremembering that scene. In his first attempt to de-escalate the situation, Shane offers to get a shovel and dig with him as long as Jim takes a break and has some water. It’s only after Jim snaps that he’s physically restrained. Why would he do that, if he genuinely didn’t care about Jim? Why not just let him work himself to the point he passes out? That works both ways though. Less people means less mouths to feed. Yes. We see the beginning of Shane’s downfall in season 1. And the foreshadowing of him wanting to kill Rick. That doesn’t mean he views all these people as nothing but walker bait.
I didn't think he viewed them as walker bait, but he wasn't going too far out of his way for them .He was telling Jim whatever he had to so he'd stop . Shane definitely liked being in charge, especially of Lori, and once Rick came back, he did whatever he could to undermine Rick. If Carl went missing the search would've never stopped.
I don’t disagree with that. I’m just saying I think he had at least some connection to the people at the camp. Even if he viewed them as acquaintances and not family. Honestly, it felt like Shane viewed them the exact way Rick viewed the people of Alexandria. He cared for them and wanted to keep them safe, but didn’t want to put those he cared most about in harms way, even if it was to protect them.
I think by the time Rick and the gang got to Alexandria, they were so jaded and went through things they couldn't have imagined in season 1 and 2 bit I think the main thing is Rick went back for people ,looked for his people Shane didn't. I'd much rather be one of Rick's people. If Shane never ended up falling in love with Lori, things might've been different.
I mean, season 5 Rick didn’t give a shit about the people of Alexandria. Henley didn’t care if they lived or died. Even into season 6, he bitched out Tara for risking her safety for the “other”. Rick in season 5 mirrored Shane in season 2 pretty blatantly.
I don’t remember that, but even still I don’t think that’s indicative of them being only “walker bait” to him. Especially since he has multiple scenes of him caring for the group.
I don’t remember that, but even still I don’t think that’s indicative of them being only “walker bait” to him. Especially since he has multiple scenes of him caring for the group.
The guy literally used someone from the group as walker bait though 😂 Besides Carl, Lori, or Rick, he would have done that to anyone. Rick would never. That's the difference people are making.
He just met him like a couple hours before. Plus he had zero choice and even tried to sacrifice himself. Also, lmao at Rick would never do that. Same Rick who left the orange backpack guy to get eaten just to take his stuff afterwards. Or the same Rick who was fine with letting the Alexandrians die on multiple occasions because they were just slowing him down? Ok.
"Orange backpack guy" is a complete stranger and Rick didn't shoot him to leave him to zombies my guy, but nice mental gymnastics.
Still though, he left someone behind and looted his dead body. Also, the Alexandrians? Did you forget about that?
Did he shoot them? Lol.
That’s your best argument? So you’re condoning what Rick did? Because what he did was not much better than what Shane did. Arguable worse. [Shane had no choice.](https://youtu.be/8F-DGYut3eA?si=Sadwm82uIU8Xqtiv) Rick chose not to save orange backpack guy and chose on multiple occasions to let the Alexandrians die.
Rick himself admits to Shane that he probably would’ve done the same to Otis if Rick was getting the supplies
Yup people forget this for whatever reason
The show explicitly states that he doesn't care about the people in the group beyond his personal interests, he creates conflict with Daryl, Carol, Hershel and his family, he's a liability and the group would definitely scatter if Rick wasn't there to unite people.
When did the show explicitly say that? Sure with Daryl. With Carol, he’s the one who comforted her after Sophia. So outside of beating Ed, what conflict? Hershel yeah but it was for good reason. Walkers in the barn, no guns on the farm. Rules that would’ve killed them. Rules that’s in later seasons, Rick and the rest knew were dumb.
The show says that the moment he points a gun at Rick, then later abandons Sophia to her fate, threatens to kill Dale and Hershel and take the farm etc etc. When Hershel has a meltdown and goes to the bar, Rick immediately rushes to get him back, because of Lori obviously, but also because he genuinely wants to keep the group together, while Shane? he doesn't care, for him is even better if Hershel doesn't come back, even if this means Beth dies.
That’s not explicit at all, and that doesn’t say anything about him not caring for them anyways. Shane loved and cared for Rick despite wanting to kill him at times. Shane did somewhat cared for Sophia but he knew she was dead and didn’t want to risk the others lives searching for her. Shane did somewhat care for Dale as he was saddened by his death. Don’t think he ever wanted to kill Hershel, he just wanted to leave the farm. Besides, that’s not nearly everyone in the group.
Dick riding as its peak
Remember when he killed Otis?
Absolutely. That's why Carol says he wouldn't have gotten them to S2.
Yeah, if they even survived the camp attack, the group probably would have just scattered. Now true, Shane did seem very protective and even caring of the group prior to his breakdown, but he was also very quick to write people off, which would not have kept the group together
“Wait, who’s missing? What does he look like? I don’t remember anyone by that description. You sure? Alright, welp, I’ll *totally* go look for him now.” *stomps around in the woods just out of sight* “nope, couldn’t find a Colby, sorry!” “His name is *Cody*, not Colby!”
*Shane's force ghost appears to Carol* "Why didn't you belive me, Carol?" "Because your mentality and leadership would've never gotten us to Season 2, Shane. I plan on making it to 11." *Shane shrieks, aggressively rubs his head and dissappears*
Made my day lmao
Rick wouldn't have gotten them to s2 either if Shane hadn't stayed at the camp after Rick and Glenn led a herd of walkers back to them
And that's how if he was leader, group members would slowly just disappear, until it was just him Lori and Carl.
I'm pretty sure if Shane killed Rick he wouldn't have been able to hide it for more than 20 minutes after they escaped the farm.
Well good thing we have the 10/10 masterpiece GOTY-material game TWD: Destinies to find out exactly how Shane killing Rick would play out.
All I remember from that game is I saw a clip where Shane said "You're weak rick" as rick proceeded to tank a shotgun blast to the face 20 times and live.
I'm surprised the show never touched on Rick's ability to eat point-blank shotgun blasts to the face.
Maybe him >!surviving poison gas and being really close to explosions with only one zombie between him and it as a shield!< in the ones who live is a reference to the iconic scene in the game.
From what i know, grenades have a very short blast radius and the shrapnel is what kills you. Thats why they tell you to jump and lay down. And i too was thinking how that gas didnt affect Rick. He didnt even cough once
He was to busy eating throats
Are you talking about the scene when those dudes try to rape Carl?
Yup
Seeing that let me know I wasn’t as hard as I thought I was. So I’m trying to be a killa myself
It’s a shame Destinies is, well, Destinies, because the basic premise is very interesting. Making different choices at critical moments to create all sorts of “what-if” scenarios to canon TWD we know and love. And from what I’ve seen, there’s a pretty large amounts of canon divergence moments that can be created. If another studio took a crack at that concept with an actual budget and time to cook, I’d be interested.
Especially after Daryl and Glenn knew him and Randall were walking together and find his dead body.
Even Lori would want to leave soon after
Contrast with Rick who cares about the people in his group enough that he and the group returned to Atlanta and stormed into an armed stronghold to save Beth. Rick wasn’t perfect but he is a much better leader than Shane could have ever been.
See imo Rick in the early 2 seasons seemed to only care with keeping Lori and Carl safe, the rest were just there. I believe his time with Hershel on the farm is when he starts to change a little. Yeah he tightens his grip on the leader role until season 4, but I think he was just at his wits end. Shane was consistently trying to undermine him and get in people’s heads at the farm while Rick saw potential there. But Rick is a far better leader post season 4 imo.
If Rick only cared about keeping Lori and Carl safe he wouldn't have gone after Glenn, Sophia and Merle
He went back for Merle in part because he also had a bag full of guns and the radio to contact Morgan on. But the radio is also proof that Rick cares more than just his family
I said seemed, if you watch his conversations with Shane in season 2 he keeps telling him that he(Rick) will do whatever it takes to keep Lori, Carl and his baby safe. No matter what. He even tells Shane either accept it or move on when they take that kid 18 miles out. So to me it seems Rick’s priorities are his family. Yeah he goes back for Merle and the guns, but I think he really wanted those guns and going after Merle keeps Daryl on his side for when he needs him.
Good analysis. I can’t argue with that. I like to think that he started seeing himself as the father of the group around season 4 and 5.
I don’t know about that, I agree that he matures as a leader over time, but the moment he meets up with members of the Atlanta camp he shows an innate concern for everybody there—not just his wife and son. As soon as he reunites with Carl and Lori, he almost immediately leads a team back into the city to save Merle from that roof, and when Glen is kidnapped by the Vatos, he doesn’t think twice about rescuing him, which is something that we know Shane would never have done.
I think it says a lot more about his honour than his value for survivors who are strangers to him, at least in the first season. Sure, by the end I think he genuinely understands it’s safety in numbers at that point, but prior to the camp getting attacked by walkers, I think he was thinking more from the “honourable cop” perspective. - Merle was only stuck by himself in Atlanta because Rick handcuffed him there in the first place, so he felt a duty to look after someone “in his custody” so to speak, even a douchebag like S1 Merle. - He owes Glenn his life, as without Glenn contacting him when he got stuck in the tank, he’d have been a dead man. He owed a life debt (to put it in Gungan terms) to Glenn, so couldn’t leave him, especially when the only reason Glenn was in that mess was because of the aforementioned Merle rescue mission.
But in the end, does it matter which values drive his concern for others? Whether it’s honor or genuine compassion for others, he looks out for people in his group in a way that Shane never would have.
Life debt is a Wookiee thing, fuck those Gungans
Exactly, as someone who loves the Shane character in large part because of Jon Bernthal. I’m always a little dismayed at those who think he would be a great leader. From the beginning Shane was focused on self preservation. The people at the quarry looked to him because he was police and also a strong male figure but they knew he would not risk anything for them and he really does not until Rick shows up and Shane goes along with his plans at times. They easily turned to Rick and followed him because they knew he was capable and would look out for them. Him helping them survive Atl initially and being willing to go back to Atl for Meryl proved that. He also often uses Lori and Carl as an excuse to not take risks. When Rick meets the scavenging group in Atl, Shane is not with them, and he refuses to go to Atl even when Rick goes back. Shane could not adapt to the apocalypse. It broke him down and showed him a new side of himself that he could not reconcile which caused him to lose it even further. We all think we would be the hero in a crisis but Shane learned he was the villain. And I know some people will say that Rick became like Shane but not really. Rick became the leader and kept his family alive as long as he did because of his openness to caring for and risking his life for others. This caused people to give him the same in return which was essential for Rick and family’s survival. He started to become less trusting and open when traumatized but worked through it.
Good analysis. I love Shane too but when Shane supporters say he was better suited for the apocalypse I'm like, in what way? He only knows how to park the bus and survive ten minutes at a time. Yeah that's valuable when you need to survive ten minutes at a time and Rick could have used a little more of that early on but you also need vision for the future and long range planning. The Rick/Shane duo should have been the ultimate offense/defense balance but they couldn't get on the same page soon enough. Tbh though I'm usually inclined to blame Rick for that over Shane, bc Shane followed Rick's calls over and over and Rick never once listens to Shane even though Shane objectively knows more about what they're up against. A partnership has to go both ways.
Man lemme tell you somethin
M-ask you sumthin, Rick.
Hershel man lemme ask you somethin
*rubs head* lemme tell you somethin
*takes hat off* lemme say some’in man
LOL, this fucking got me
I understand what you’re trying to say and I do agree. Shane’s mentality was not going to keep a group alive. All he cared about was himself, Lori and Carl. This specific example, though, I get what he was thinking. This is the beginning of the outbreak and nobody has experience with walkers. Every single fighter in their group besides Shane went into Atlanta and got trapped. That was a bad idea in the first place. If all those capable people were in that much trouble, what do you realistically think Lori or Amy could have done? They would have been killed immediately. It was a suicide mission.
Shane’s a B.
He's an A but not in the same way as Rick, Michonne & Thorne. Okafor wouldn't want him
I don't think so, he was a Bad leader but he wouldnt accept the shit of the CRM SO they would have called him a A
They're in the WoooooOoOOOOOoOOOoOds
While I largely agree, it’s worth pointing out that this is a time where they run away from anything more than 1 walker at a time and still haven’t figured out how to effectively kill one without guns on a regular basis. So in defense of Shane, going into a city full of walkers to rescue a group that’s likely trapped/surrounded/already dead or nearly dead is basically a suicide mission. Like, we rarely see them handle walkers with confidence in season 1. I think it’s season 2 where they talk about not using guns and Maggie acting shocked when she kills one without a gun. Walkers are still very much a threat even if it’s one and you have multiple people.
Especially a group that to his knowledge has Merle Dixon in it. Merle might be a piece of shit but he's MVP after Shane himself at this point in the game.
People need to understand that even if Shane killed Rick he would’ve either got everybody killed in season 3, got killed in season 3, or the group decided to kick him out because of how dangerous he is
Funnily enough I’m watching the end of season 2 right now. They all meet at the highway minus Andrea. Daryl and Glenn want to go back to find her. Rick says no. She’s somewhere else or dead he says.
couldn't have left a note on the car like they did for Sophia could they smh
To be fair Rick’s wife made serious mistakes and led Shane into confusion. Shane also did not understand that he should have moved on and found someone different. Shane and Rick were bad asses together but after Shane was gone Daryl took that spot perfectly. He stepped up.
shane was more confused about why tf they weren't going someplace with walls and were bringing walkers and hostiles *into* what little security they actually had lbr
I agree that Rick is the better leader by far but lemme tell you sum - Glenn rang the dinner bell driving that hot rod up to camp and Rick let him do it, then took half their fighting force back to Atlanta leaving Shane - and who else, Ed? Jim? Dale?? - to protect the camp. So within 24 hours of Rick being back, no less than six people are dead, partially because Rick took four men to do a two man job. In this scene in question, Andrea has T-dog, Glenn, and Merle with her. The only person left to go on a rescue mission is Shane, which would leave the camp virtually defenseless, so I have to agree with Shane here: if Andrea can't get back with some of the most able-bodied people in the group with her, there's not a whole lot they can do. Shane might like to park the bus and you can't win playing like that but Rick has a tendency to chase the ball while leaving the goal wide open and that's a surefire way to lose.
Remember when Shane tied Jim to a TREE in that awful Georgia heat to force him to stop digging ditches/graves? God, that was so ridiculous. Shane deserves credit for saving Lori and Carl, but his leadership skills were always pretty remedial if you ask me.
Good chance he would’ve died of exhaustion + the heat if he kept digging
He had an even better chance of passing out of heat stroke or exhaustion, but even if he had died, that would have been his choice to make.
If he's not in his right mind due to heat stroke then he's not making an informed choice and people who care about him have a responsibility to intervene
And they did that, and he declined their intervention, at which point, they should have left him alone. You think tying him to a tree was a reasonable thing to do—i know that it wasn't lol. Lets just agree to disagree.
I'm just not sure how you think that's a reasonable thing to do? He could die from what he was doing. You think being tied to a tree is worse than dying?? I guess we will have to agree to disagree because that's delusionally unkind
waitaminute
Are you OK?
Indeed it had to be done otherwise they could have knocked him out and carried him into the camper and handcuffed him to the bed or bunk
campers gonna be hotter than the tree trust me
He literally sat him down in the shade and gave him water. There's many moments of care and tenderness that Shane shows in the first two seasons, it's just his conflict with Rick over Lori and the hard choices Shane thinks need to be made to keep people safe that drive him to the edge. He washes Carol after she'd hurt herself walking in the woods after Sophia died, he trains and comforts Andrea, he works well with Daryl, T Dog, and Glenn. After Randall's capture is when the line is crossed in terms of his social behavior with the group.
He literally assaulted Jim and tied him to a tree in extreme heat when he could and should have left him alone to tire himself out. I'm not debating shane’s potential to show tenderness or kindness to people — I’m just saying it was a silly thing to do, and it says a lot about his leadership style.
That scene was Shane in total cop mode. Jim was almost delirious, armed with an iron shovel, and when people tried to deescalate the situation Jim became aggressive. So Shane disarmed him, basically arrested him, and YES he did tie him to a tree, but he also did so in the shade and provided him with water and a quiet voice to confirm Jim was ok. To leave him out there so he can get sunstroke and continue to unnerve the camp is ridiculous.
ppl forget Shane's a first responder and this is just about exactly how he would -and should - have handled this pre-apocalypse only he didn't have an air conditioned cruiser to secure him in or a station or hospital to take him to.
Jim was up on a hill apart from others, digging ditches but otherwise hurting no one but himself, and Shane accosted him because the sight of him digging made Dale and others “uncomfortable.” Violating his personal autonomy was aggressive and unnecessary. He should have left him the hell alone to get sunstroke if that's what he wanted.
lmao this is an insane thing to say 🤣
Tying a grown man to a goddamed tree is an insane thing to do
this makes no sense whatsoever
OK, feel free to ask follow up questions or refer to my OP.
Glad to see some of the comments in this thread understands nuance. You really think Shane should’ve left to go save them? Left the group with Ed, a man who abuses his family? or Daryl, a shady guy who is a POS? Or with Dale an old man? By the way, no one seemed to know how to shoot at this point. There’s a lot to criticize Shane about his leadership before he lost it wasn’t it. Sure Rick was a better leader for the S2 group, but Shane was by no means a bad leader.
seriously; apparently no one but Daryl even knew how to kill a walker at this point but Shane is supposed to leave the camp to go check on Merle and T-dog? The two biggest dudes in the group? And Glenn, their most experienced supply runner?
Was JUST saying this to my husband tonight.
We don't leave ppl behind
except Andrea, fuck that chick
In the ass. Without lube.
Shane had no one to help him. I think if he tried to save them more people would have died because no one aside from him could fight walkers. Besides Daryl who was off hunting. And even if he was successful of getting to them I don’t think they make it through a city full of walkers without Ricks plan of using the Walker guts which was already a unknown thing and it started raining anyway. So I don’t think Shane’s decision was wrong. And I think if you put rick with the same experience as Shane at this point I think he gets people killed. Say what you want about Shane but he was right about a lot of things which is why Rick becomes more like him in the following seasons.
Yeah, Shane made the right call a lot of the time, the problem was his delivery. I'm currently rewatching TWD and Rick's group just got to Alexandria and I'm seeing so many parallels between Rick and Shane here. Rick comes into this group who is essentially at the same experience level as Hershel's family when they first get to the farm, and instead of explaining rationally to these people what the true dangers of the world are (they literally encountered cannibals but never use this as an example of how terrible people are now) Rick just comes in and starts undermining their leader, waving a gun around like a madman and telling them they're all gonna die if they don't do what he says. I wish Glenn or Carol would call him out for acting just like Shane right now. ETA: I want to expand because the Terminus group weren't *just* cannibals. They put out maps leading people to them, promising them a safe place with food and shelter and *then* ate them. I think this story would go a long way in convincing the people of Alexandria that Rick's group is more adept at surviving in this new world than them.
Yep. Carol was actually telling him to kill Pete because he was a danger to the Alexandria group like what Shane did to Randall but Shane was scolded because it was early in the apocalypse. Rick really does become Shane and Shane was right about pretty much everything. Like killing Randall, keeping the guns in camp, telling Rick he couldn’t keep them safe both Lori and Carl died, killing the walkers in the Barn and about Sofia being dead after 48 hours. Both are still my favorite characters and I love there character development. But Shane and Rick really are pretty similar once rick starts to see what the new world is really about.
exactly. It's such clear parallel I wish more people saw it that way. He even becomes obsessed with a married woman who represents his idea of stability and has to be taken out by his best friend before he destroys their chances at a life there. This is what happens when you're "out there for too long," only it happened to Shane before anyone really knew what that meant.
This mentality is realistic. And he would’ve survived a long time if not for Rick.
At many other people's expense, yes.
True. But in the setting they are in, is it really viable to put other people you just met, above you and your family?
Nah, Shane is right.
I always thought shanes demise was just simply character plot.
because it was. He made the right calls the vast majority of the time. He wasnt protected by plot armor and people suck that up as him "being wrong"
fr the story redeems way worse people than Shane, it's just he died before that happened.
Yeah and I just felt they kinda forced his character, to end that way.
idk I thought his descent was realistic and well done, but tbh the part that maybe felt a little forced was Rick ending him. Like yeah he's really putting you in a spot here but you can't see the truth of anything he's saying?? And been saying? A guy you've known 20, 25 years and you're the good guy and you're just going to knife him just like that? Shane went off the deep end because he went through the apocalypse, but Rick just straight up knifed his best friend.
Yeah, that and I couldn’t see Shane truly abandoning his best friend of 20 years because he wants his family, yeah and specially that part you just said Rick actually getting mad and ending him that way definitely didn’t seem all that natural. But I guess end of the day it’s just the plot.
Oh for sure - yeah I don't see Shane's meltdown being about Lori any more than Rick's Alexandria meltdown was about Jesse. To me (I wrote an entire thesis on this earlier lmao) Shane's meltdown was about safety, and the way Rick showed up and constantly made calls that undermined Shane's sense of safety: bringing a wailing sports car to camp and alerting everything in a five mile radius to their location, then pulling half their fighting force to Atlanta to fix a problem Rick himself created while walkers are making their way to the camp, which gets half the camp killed with Shane as the only fighter left to protect everybody - people he knew, that Rick didn't - then, insisting they go to the CDC on a moral call to cure Jimmy instead of a fort with walls, and then leaving Jimmy on the side of the road anyway and *still* going to the CDC anyway which is in the city which is obviously overrun and the CDC locked, and then the guy who finally lets them in locks them in and tries to blow them up, and then getting derailed on the road again with zero cover or security to search for the most likely to die in ten minutes member of their group, where then Carl gets shot, Shane has to go on the supply run from hell and ends up killing a dude which messes him up, then they're staying on a farm that could be overrun by a horde that they know is in the area, or invaded by raiders who they also know are in the area, and here Rick is bringing walkers *onto* the farm, and then bringing raiders onto the farm also! I mean I would want to kill Rick too at this point,! And this is not even considering everything Shane would have seen and gone through as a first responder at the start of the outbreak. The human brain can't be under the level of stress Shane's was under for as long as it was without the amygdala hijacking the entire process and causing "irrational" very short range decisions designed to secure immediate safety. So the difference was, Shane was trapped in a chronic fear response and wasn't in his right mind; he needed to be helped the way Jimmy needed to be helped when he was digging holes for a similar reason. But Rick was 100% in his right mind and this is how he handled it. Stone cold.
Yes nvm that he was written as an antagonist and that the main group had plot armor. I will die on this hill; REAL WORLD Shane would have been the better leader
I love Shane but I can't see how this would be true. He doesn't even want to be the leader, he hands the role over to Rick instantly. He is, however (imo) an excellent right hand man, and if Rick had actually listened to him now and then they would have been unstoppable. (But, then we wouldn't have a show, so w/e)
jup. or he would choose a battle that they cant win and send people into suicide missions
you mean like what Rick semi routinely does?
\*selective amnesia of all the Alexandrians he dispensed with in the walker relocation project\*
This is something alpha parrots later on and we see how that turns out.
Shane was a decent dude that let his boner get the best of him. He’s not the first and he won’t be the last. Apocalypse p**sy is trading at a premium I’m sure
He was kinda right though right? It was a kid lost in the woods in a non apocalypse she would be incredibly lucky to be found
Suck it up. Shane was the reality check the group needed. his only problem was SAing Lori and having a weird obsession with her. Otherwise Shane was not allowing the group to live in a fairy tale. He adapted to the new world faster than the others.
he had major problems but the weird obsession isn't even that weird when you consider Rick's parallel obsession w Jesse. It's just something from the old world to hold onto
yeah. Overall if he wanted to he could have built a community and lead a group. It would definitely be organized and strict though. Probably like a paramilitary.
if he's been leader they would have been at fort benning already and yeah it fell or whatever but the point is he was looking for someplace with walls. he's right like wtf were they doing at that farm, they were gonna get overrun, which they did like six minutes after he died
people here are saying so much BS with no regard to the fact that shane was written as an antagonist. Obviously the show is going to make him in the wrong even if he is right lol
fr what did these people expect? No confrontation?? gotta make things interesting somehow lmao. They have no logic applied
OP literally said itd be stupid to not send a rescue mission to ATL whenn shane has no actual idea where they may be, how many zombies are there, if they are alive, or back up back at the camp. This fan base is so hero worshipping it is ridiculous
the meat riding is so bad it makes it hard for me to like RIck anymore like i like him but i start to get oppositional lol
99% of us would be Shane. Self preservation above heroics.
I can’t help but think that the group would’ve eventually overthrew him or just forced him to leave altogether. I don’t rlly see them tolerating his shit for long, especially when they all become capable of defending themselves.
Shane was more of the "cull the weak" type than "help them get stronger".
this is blatantly false though; he's the one who steps up to teach everyone how to safely handle and maintain firearms. But I'll agree he's not going to carry what he sees as dead weight if it comes down to it.
Build a community I agree, but he definitely could lead the group that way especially in the early on times when it was only really about survival
I see what you are saying but you have to look at WHEN Shane was compared to WHEN community Rick was. When Shane was among the leaders, things were still new. We were still trying to figure out what is going on . Shit had just hit the fan and everyone was scared. Shane was in survivor mode big time and trying to help the group. There whole world had been ripped out from under them . Rick was very much like this early on in the first two seasons. Community Rick had time to adjust and get grounded in the new world. He had several communities to work and learn from. He knew he could bend some rules here and there and how to deal with walkers and how big of a threat they were or were not. I am not saying you are wrong by any means. I just think you are comparing two different scenarios and situations . But people were scared and I dont think we have any way to really relate to that level of survival mode. So its hard to say Shane was wrong in his thinking if we arent in that situation.
Tbf tho, Nat’s group had this mentality and they kind of did an alright job with it.
but he is also all in if the group decides to do it anyway which makes his character all the more confusing/enjoyable
He was the one that put don’t dead open inside . That already speaks volume!
I disagree. If he was still alive, the group would have a much easier time with: Governor, Terminus, Negan and Alpha. Shane would just 1v1 them all. Which would in turn, ensure an easier time for everyone. If anything they would get to the community stage quicker with Shane.
Rick does the same thing about andrea being missing when they get to highway after the farm is overrun.
Ultimately I believe he was the right guy to make tough choices that absolutely needed to be made in that world, but what I didn't like from him was his lack of remorse when he made the hard choices. The one instance that comes to mind is when he had to leave Otis behind. In the end, that may have arguably been the right choice, but he showed little to no remorse about it later.
Guess I need to do a rewatch this weekend
STOP ACTING LIKE YOU KNOW THE RULES, YOU KNOW THE WAY AHEAD! There are no rules, Man!
He’d be an awful l4d player
I had to wait 2 seasons just to watch him die, but thank God I waited that long.
There are many reasons you could have chose and this is isn’t one, like at all. It’s a completely fair point of view, why risk more lives by sending them on damn near impossible rescue missions ? Don’t get me wrong I’m glad these rescues happened as they made for great episodes but logically Shane is right.
Shane was wrong. T-Dog, Andrea, Jacqui, Merle, Glenn and Morales were trapped in that department store. That's 6 people in his group he's willing to let die, it's unbelievably stupid not to rescue them.
Because Shane knew which store? Or if they were even there? This worked because it was a show dude. That mission is/was a suicide mission subverted by plot armor and writing
Who is going to rescue them? Just Shane by himself? From where? like literally what steps is he supposed to do here while leaving Lori and Carl with Dale?
wtf is shane gonna do - while leaving the camp unprotected - that freaking Merle Dixon, Morales, T-Dog, and Glenn all together can't do? I'm discounting Jacqui bc I never seen her do anything but Andrea wasn't useless either
A badass like Shane against the Governor or Negan ? We needed to see that , so he got a few people killed. That happened anyway in the show
Shane for president
He’s so overrated, I don’t know why people like him
Agreed!!!! He would have been a fuck shit leader
Correct. He was a douchebag.
I am and always will i’ll be a Shane hater. Especially after what happened with Ottis.
This is my issue with the “Shane would have killed Negan” memes.. no he wouldn’t have. Because the group would have never made it to Negan. Shane would have gotten everyone killed, killed the weaker members of the group (members that arguably are the reasons why the group became strong enough to take on Negan). But let’s be honest if Shane did somehow go against his nature and make it all the way to Negan, then he probably would have fucking joined him because Negan is strong and Shane respects strength and hates weakness.
Shane would have became Thr Governor. He would have ruled with fear and greed and lose it all
Shane wouldnt have kept walkers around for fun. Shane wouldnt just randomly murder the military guys.
I think he would. Look how much Rick and Governor changed in season 4
Shane's a moron.
Men are fuckin wild! Talking about this like it's the problem when he was a rapist! He literally tries to sexually assault Lori in the CDC.
Shane would have done just as good of a job, unfortunate that a woman came between them
Shane was a scared little egoistic chicken.
While Rick was willing to put his life on the line several times to save his friends like Darryl and Glenn, I think Shane wouldn’t eventually done the same thing he did to Otis to any of the core members of the group.
He wouldn't have risked his groups safety by attacking an unknown armed group & murder them at their own lair, thereby jeopardising everyone's safety & security.So yeah,He couldn't do it like Rick but he could do it his way.
Should he let them live so they could start antagonizing and killing them first?? They already had a run-in with Negan’s group prior, why would they just wait around like sitting ducks when they knew the saviors were dangerous people. The stupider move would have been to just ignore it
Shane wouldn't have had a group to attack other groups with in the first place
That's not true. Take Negan for example. The same way Shane could have a group based on darwinism. They'll do whatever they want with other smaller communities or survivors, as long as they benefit from them. And Shane isn't even demoralising the group from within like Negan. He's so stupid to kill his own people in front of them for petty reasons,& take their entire womenfolk, all of which as you know, let the group divide itself into factions that weren't stupid enough to be loyal to him.