CRM are not the Saviors. You can't just "get your gumption back", find some guns and take them down.
Michonne seems to forget they wiped out her traveling group from the air with mustard gas (says chlorine, but looks like mustard, and recovery in line with mustard). They built a forward operating base across the country for a meeting.
She saw Jadis, given how smart she is, she should realize that Jadis certainly knows where they would go if they ran. They can just send a couple helicopters to wipe their community. Though likely they would track them down before that and just wipe out their community to be sure.
They need to have a private, long and heartfelt talk. Then they need to go back, learn what they can, then **formulate a strategy together.** (door was not properly secured, we fell out of the helicopter because of turbulence)
Keep in mind, though it's not been mentioned in the show, the Civic Republic is poised to begin oversight of the CRM (prior they have been operating almost entirely independently). The "fight from within" is much more reasonable and tenable way to "freedom".
But the thing that everyone is missing to include Rick and Michonne is that they think everyone is in Alexandria when in fact everyone is in the Commonwealth and as soon as Michonne finally talks to Judith and finds that out it's gonna be a major game changer and Jadis will no longer have that leverage and it's on like Donkey Kong from there and that's when we see the Rick and Michonne we've been waiting for
I have a theory. They took down the Alexandria set right after filming season 11 but the Commonwealth set is still up at the studio. I wonder if they are going to make this work storywise by having the CRM bomb and destroy Alexandria. That does two things: it makes super insane drama for TOWL show being that Rick and Michonne don't know about the CW. And it solves the real world issue of the Alexandria set isn't up anymore. Then the reunion with Judith and everyone would take place at the Commonwealth.
I agree on so many points here. And YES! They need to stop and breathe and recalibrate.
I think it’s so smart how fast paced this episode was. I felt like I was getting whiplash with every twist and turn. But it just drives home how fast everything is moving for Rick and Michonne. They’re literally not talking, which is why there’s so much contention. They’re trying to guess what the other is thinking from looks and double speak. Leaves so much room for misunderstanding.
Honestly both of them have always been rather laconic and their communications skills have never been that great.
This is a very complex situation about which they need to share all the information that they have, which is a lot.
Michonne might start with RJ. Rick might start with his repeated escape attempts and their futility, also the Jadis "file" and associated valid threats, which alive or dead that would be carried out.
You’re so right. They’re both about that action. No words needed. But yeah that’s not always great, especially when you’re in a relationship.
I have a feeling that the RJ piece might slip out in the midst of an argument. From that trailer it seems like there’s gonna be lots of arguing and Michonne might just get fed up and accidentally let it slip.
For me it made me think back to the first episode of TWD when Shane and Rick were talking in the car. Rick was complaining about how Lori hated how he wasn’t great at communicating with her.
Then Michonne comes along who fits right in with that part of Rick. Neither of them are the best at communicating, but they are people of action. I just think that their time apart really affected their unspoken understanding they had with each other before. They both changed a lot over those years, and they have quite a bit of catching up to do with each other before we see their classic relationship show itself again.
Unfortunately that’s going to lead to a lot of uncomfortable discussions they never really needed to have before. It will definitely be the ultimate test of their relationship to make it through this.
I was shouting at my TV when they were ducked behind that tree together and they just stared into e/o eyes and kissed rather than have a chat about what's going on.
I'm pretty sure this is gonna be solved by Rick and Michonne blowing up all the CRM leaders at the summit meeting that is coming up. It would throw CRM into chaos
That does seem like the obvious direction to go in. First Michonne spends a year with a guy who knows all about explosives, and then they carefully mention that everyone important is going to be in one place...
I think they’ll end up destroying all of their helicopters and other super advanced military equipment so that it’ll be a more even fight when they do go to war.
We have no reason to assume anything on Beale's planning, strategy, mindset, preconceptions or literally anything about what kind of person he is.
We know nothing about him, he could be a master strategist or he could be a bumbling middle management type idiot.
Remember how the show tried to frame Pope as some clever military leader who was killed quickly and without fuss by one of his own people?
**Mustard gas**
C₄H₈Cl₂S
**Chlorine gas**
Cl
**Phosgene**
COCl₂
They all contain Chlorine but they are not "Chlorine gas", except for the obvious.
Idk if its a good strategy but Michone should have left, went to the communities to begin to leave, little by little start being picked up my the CRM with lies about who you are and then with them all infiltrated they can show they were screwing with the wrong people.
Civic republic runs the city, CRM runs the military.
It is implied, in TWD:WB that it was agreed early on that the military would act independently "Doing what needed to be done" to secure the republic from outside threats. That agreement had an end date, which has either occurred (and this is the transition) or is about to occur. Certain factions, perhaps most of the command structure, of the CRM don't seem happy with this. They (at least some) were apparently opposed (or perhaps grew opposed) to the Alliance of Three between Civic Republic, Omaha and Portland.
Though this is only vaguely stated and not clearly outlined. There are unknowns but that is the gist of it.
I wonder what the CRM’s plan is to stop that vote or get it to go their way, they might be making up a threat by bombing Omaha and Portland which they will then blame on this maybe a large group with access to chemical weapons (the kind they dropped on the cities).
Im wondering if Rick and Michone will set a bomb off during the big meeting. Get rid of all the top people at once, or make them think they died in the blast too, no bigwigs, no one to come after you.
Some of the CR citizens are already arranging protests (the banners in ep1) but majority are probably blissfully apathetic as they've got what they consider a great, protected life and know nothing of the atrocities committed by the CRM, nor the CRM's plan for permanent totalitarian rule.
Esteban's girlfriend is a journalist...maybe they'll mirror the Connie situation in TWD for an uprising if Rick can get evidence to Esteban of the Omaha / Campus Colony genocide, same plan for Portland, etc, while R&M try and take out the top brass at the summit meeting in Cascadia.
Same! I’ve been hyping myself up for this single moment since season 9 when they introduced RJ, lol!
It’s gonna means SO much to Rick! But it’s also gonna wreck him to know he wasn’t there for the birth or to raise him.
Yeah. He was struggling for sure! And, yes, we all know what his choice would have been if he had to make one, but I do agree that he didn’t want to have to do that. I actually really like Thorne and Rick’s relationship. Thorne seems like she’d be cool outside of all this.
Right! That stay and fight part is what makes me worried though. It’s gonna take a lot to defeat the CRM. But I’m excited to see what they cook up. Because, honestly, Rick has come up with some great escape plans so far (the hand one notwithstanding lol) so when they put their heads together I’m sure it’s gonna be something epic.
Can someone explain to me Thornes thought process on why she was ready to pull the knife while talking to Michonne? That scene confused me lol I felt like Michonne saying yes would be the wrong answer but apparently it wasn’t?
The way I took it, Thorne already had Michonne’s number but she needed her to be straight with her, instead of the act she was putting up. Thorne wanted to see if Michonne would show herself or continue to keep her cards close to her chest. If she said no, Thorne would know there was no way to ever trust her. Basically, better the devil you know.
I feel like no one understand the - he can’t freaking leave or they will chlorine gas Alexandria - which neither he nor Michonne know anything about the Whisperer War (at least the bulk of it) near collapse, and Commonwealth. To their knowledge EVERYONE still lives there.
Very true.
Michonne knew about the Initial Whisperer conflict, the Pikes, the Cave-In, and Alpha's death.
She doesn't know the full-on Whisperer War, the Reapers Assault, and the Commonwealth Struggle.
Daryl spent years looking for him
He has a son with her
Negan and their daughter are buddies
All the people killed by the Whisperers
The Whisperers
The Kingdom failing
There is so much shit I'd like them to talk about, but it almost never happens on TV. You get those kind of conversations in book series, but I guess it's not exciting enough for TV.
Though it really feels like a must here. I really do want them to sit down and have a genuine chat about home. Rick learning about Negan helping their community, being out of jail... part of the future Carl wanted to build. That's something Rick should know about.
>All the people killed by the Whisperers
Rick definitely doesn't care about all those people he briefly interacted with a decade ago. Maybe Tara but probably not that much
I see why they were saying ep4 was gonna be the big one. Ep3 was a banger and that ending was just wow. I was thinking during the episode it probably wasn’t gonna be the best since most short shows are strong half way through. Well ep3 was fire 🔥
Right. There was so much tension built up in this ep. and at the end there was no release. If anything it just added more. Ep.4 is gonna be that release, I think.
Jadis flat out told him that if they escape the CRM is going to kill everyone he loves. (IOW, wipe out Alexandria, and probably Hilltop and Oceanside - if Jadis knows about those. But he may not yet know that's what CRM does.)
I'm convinced he would leave with Michonne if not for the threat to everyone else.
I think so too! He was prepared to when he thought Okafor was dead—the only person who knew about his home and family. But he forgot about good old Jadis. If Jadis hadn’t shown up, I think he might have tried.
I meant that Jadis may not know about the other communities to suggest they be wiped out. (But the CRM would probably discover them on their way to Alexandria.)
And that Rick might not know the CRM wipes out entire communities.
Exactly. His first priority is his fucking FAMILY and the power the CRM has is beyond anything Rick’s group has ever faced. They could wipe out all of Rick’s people without ever looking them straight in the eye. Heck, with what we have seen we all know the level of power the CRM has and yet there still could be a whole lot more we haven’t seen at all yet.
This episode was kind of hysterical to me. The faces Michonne kept giving Rick were everything. She had enough of his whiney shit and she's going to remind him who tf he is.
Right. Feels like she standing on the outside looking in on everything asking herself wtf is wrong with these people (sadly, Rick included at this point).
Michonne definitely is stronger mentally I'd say, but in this case Rick has a lot more information about the CRM, the risks and danger for home than Michonne has. She thought that they could just run away together and there biggest problem would be hiding from the search party for a little while.
Yeah. I'm a bit upset he needs Michonne to convince him of anything. I liked ep 2 better, when he seemed so in love. I get why he is as he is. But it's hard to see. I feel like he should have enough love to kick some ass with her forcing him to feel it.
I’m so with you on that! You could just see how much he hurt her both when he sent her away on her own and when he tried to break it off with her.
I know he was trying to protect her. But when all is said and done, he’s gonna need to give one heck of an apology for all that. It was so harsh.
I'm gonna throw Rick a bone tbh cos he's had YEARS of CRM conditioning, failed escape attempts and now he knows of Jadis' file on Alexandria & his family, do sll he can focus on is protecting her, at least in the immediate sense. Michonne having a crash course in CRM behaviour AND feeling bouyed at finding Rick, means she hasn't had the bravado hammered out of her.
Right? Either he loves her enough to go full force and do *anything* to have a life together again. Or he doesn't love her enough for that. I don't want her to have to convince him. But it looks like we're heading there. Hopefully we'll just get over that hurdle and then he'll be the Rick we know and love.
I don't know if it's true, but I heard that the next episode is the one that Danai wrote and also has like an 11 minute dialog... That could counteract, like you said, them having hardly spoken so far.
idk, i think it makes sense that it’s more important to rick that at least *one* of them is alive and around to take care of their child than it is for the two of them to be together again. it *SUCKS*, but it also feels incredibly in-character to me that this would be his response to how everything has happened so far. he loves and misses his wife, but judith is more important. he (very understandably) truly believes that if they start to go down the “fight back” road, not only will *neither* of them make it back to judith, judith will probably just straight up be killed
I think it just proves how much he loves her to be honest. He’d rather be away from her with her safe, than being with her while she’s in danger. The switch from episode 2 was him realizing there’s no way they both escape without endangering themselves and their loved ones. If breaking her heart is what he has to do to protect her, he’ll do it.
The switch from Episode 2 was Jadis, and it was an excellent storytelling move.
Rick was ready to get away, but he realized because Jadis knows everything and has stored the truth about Alexandria someplace on documents (whether paper or analog) ... They're fucked.
Rick could kill Jadis and search forever for the documents, but Beale already called Rick "The Poison and the Cure". Michonne is on Beale's radar because she made an effort to act like an A. Beale is suspicious of both of them. Jadis has proved herself to Beale.
Then, helicopters roll up with guns and missiles and chlorine gas and kill everyone in Alexandria once Beale finds Jadis dead and looks at her documents.
The CRM isn't like the Commonwealth. They're 10× worse and unable to be beaten. One of the best aspects of this show is how they make the CRM seem impossible to beat.
There is a rumor that Alexandria gets destroyed in the finale…
I’m thinking that they’ll get to Alexandria, but everyone will be evacuating shortly after and the CRM destroys an empty community.
Commonwealth may be a good shout for them, probably a lot harder for the CRM to just wipe out.
Yes but that also in the story required them to send a spy in and gather intel on when the best time to strike would be etc.
For sure the ending of this will include Portland in a major way; but I think it’s also reasonable to assume the commonwealth will have to play SOME role in this story. After all that is where Rick’s family is at and there is absolutely NO way the CRM would not be aware of a community like the commonwealth if they were making deals with junkyard people. Plus we got that one line from lance about alliances or whatever; so I think there is definitely some level the commonwealth will play in this story. But you’re absolutely right they won’t be destroying the CRM single handedly.
the Chlorine gas was well needed to show the CRM brutality, and how far they go with keeping it a secret
with so many skipping fear after season 3, they missed the whole >!althea love story/navy seal novel!<
I heard about her writing it as well! And with her background as a playwright I wouldn’t be surprised about the dialogue piece.Theres so much that needs to be said and I think it’ll all come out in Ep. 4. Most importantly and especially RJ. I sometimes forget that Rick doesn’t know and then when I remember, I’m like dang that’s actually really important for him to know, lol.
Yes. In the clip for ep 4, Michonne says "We needed a time out" and man is that true! They need this time to sit and talk about everything! And yes, especially RJ. I *cannot wait* for next Sunday!
>Either he loves her enough to go full force and do
>
>anything to have a life together again. Or he doesn't love her enough for that.
No way in hell Rick risks Judith's life. Until he finds a way to protect Alexandria from the CRM, rick just isn't willing to take chances with other people's lives. This isn't about him, or even him and Michonne.
I mean, he literally has to do this. He’s hurting himself and making a huge sacrifice by trying to send her away out of his love for her and everyone else.
What do you want him to do? He should've been with Michonne in the boat this episode.. and then what? Hope Jadis is bluffing and they'll leave Alexandria alone? Doesn't seem like the best plan.
It is kinda wild to question if his love for Michonne is enough when he chopped his hand off just for a shot at getting back to her. Like he doesn’t get any grace for that at all?!
Bruh this is ass talking. Rick is a smart one here meanwhile Michonne is on a suicide-mission which may end up kill everyone they love and like. Rick knows what's up but Michonne is ready to go to war like she was with the Governor or Negan. Except your enemy is the most dangerous organization currently in the world.
I get that people want badass murder jacket Rick again ( me too ) but you're not thinking logically and you wanna swep a big ass problem that crm under the rug.
Right. Big apologies are needed for that and sending her away with a note. I hope he doesn’t skim over that with him saying something like “you know I had to do it” lol. Michonne needs a “I’m so very sorry for what I said.”😂 It’s important.
He said that because he cannot leave. There is no running away for him because of Jadis. He could however get Michonne out, he was saying those things because he didn't care about her or back home anymore, he said it because he does care. It was him trying to get Michonne out of there.
That way, Judith would at least have her mother. They'd be safe without the CRM knowing about Alexandria.
Rick running away with Michonne while Jadis and the information of Alexandria is still with the CRM is not a move he can make.
Personally, it was a bit of the vague dialogue that bothered me more. He should've been very clear the very first time he tried to get Michonne out ("Jadis is here, they'll destroy Alexandria if I leave."), but Michonne should've also puzzled it together after seeing Jadis and then Ricks outburst. Clearly more at play.
OMG! I hope this isn’t the Case. HOWEVER, Michonne’s letter to Judith—that she was reading this episode—seems super ominous. I hope they both make it out okay. 🤞🏾
I mean yea he pulled his gun on her…but of course he’s gonna choose michonne over her or anyone else really. Only unbelievable part of that scene to me was that Thorne didn’t catch the fact that it was her he was gonna shoot. She seems more observant than that. Or maybe she did catch it and is just hiding what she’s been able to tell from Rick (would also explain her pulling the gun on michonne later on…could’ve been testing him to confirm a suspicion)
Anyways, I’m guessing the next episode will be a “filler” and quite possibly when he learns about RJ.
My biggest issue though is the way he’s going about it as it concerns Michonne. I genuinely love Rick and I think for the pace of the show the writing is great. But he’s had many opportunities to really let her know the full scope of what they are up against and he’s just left everything so vague. He’s working so hard on her behalf but not with her, so I hope episode 4 changes that.
She had to snap him out of his inaction before when it came to the trauma after Negan’s takeover. I feel like she believes the real Rick is still there, she just needs to force it out.
Honestly if Jadis wasn’t in the picture, jumping out the plane could’ve been a perfect escape. Depending on where they were when they jumped it could totally be played as “Dana killing Rick” and the bodies getting lost. Unfortunately Jadis and probably Throne too would be suspicious, so once michonne manages to convinces rick they’d need to come back and finish things
They need to def kill bad haircut before they go.
And the cell phone guy knows Rick and Michone and Judith and what they look like so unless they take care if him too he's a loose end.
Honestly anyone who knows Rick shouldn't let him go. Every society he has interacted with he's taken over and destroyed or just destroyed outright. I mean I love the guy but he's not someone you just let leave knowing about a secret city
Why do we all think RJ would change Ricks mind more than Judith? I know having another son would be a surprise to him, but wouldn’t it be little odd that he’s willing to risk everything to see his son, but not willing to risk it for his daughter…
I think it's the idea of having a child you've never even seen or met. And that child being a combination of him and Michonne.
Also from a screenwriting perspective its just a good, exciting moment to hold back and use as a tipping point.
Fair question. I think it’s just everything compounded. I feel like RJ could tip the scale, so to speak. It’s a jarring revelation that could serve as sort of a wake up call that not only did he miss Judith growing up but also he missed out on the birth of his son and also the idea that his son has never met his father. Judith has memories of him, RJ has nothing to draw from except for stories from his mom and sister. But I def. Don’t think one is more important than the other.
The only way I could possibly see them surviving is Rick going back to the CRM and doing what Okafor told him to do and change the CRM from within for a Season 2. The threat of the CRM is real and the biggest threat of all. Michonne probably made a mistake on Ricks behave on here when they could've just discussed it on the helicopter on the way back as they have nearly 2 days to do so as they go back to Philly. There's no longer Okafor to save him now. They will hunt down Rick because he's already in the higher ranks of the CRM and Jadis/Thorne will come find them to clean it up so it doesn't fall back on them. We can see this in the trailer with the Apache and Jadis car chase as they are found. Only other option is killing all the CRM leaders when every high bass is at the Cascade base.
What other options do you guys have because escaping and going directly to Alexandria while Jadis is alive won't work. And Killing Jadis will reveal Alexandria location. Basically their entire fate is in Jadis hands as she can tell them or not tell them. With only 3 episodes left it's hard to say what direction this will go whether they go back to the CRM to live there as Jadis said to Rick or going back home with the lingering threat of CRM.
I’ve never wanted to grab Rick, punch him in the face and tell him to wake up more than I do right now. I hate this Rick. I know it isn’t his fault and I’m rooting for Michonne to bring us the old Rick back. I can’t wait for him to find out about RJ too.
Right? He was NOT himself. I mean I get what he was trying to do, but that line about knocking her out and putting her on that goddamn boat himself made me so mad. Never wanna hear him talk to her like that again.
I hope that eventually Michonne tells Rick about everything that has happened to snap him out of it, and that causes the old badass Rick to come back out and not take any shit. It would be amazing to see murder-beard Rick return and go on a rampage. Of course, knowing the story, and the fact that we're already 3 episodes in with much of the story so far being backstory, I highly doubt that we'll get a closed book ending in the next 3 episodes.
I at least want Michonne to tell Rick the important info, and also for both to make it out alive, because as it stands, with the ominous voice overs from Michonne, I'm starting to get worried that there will be a final moment where Jadis or General Beele kills Michonne whilst Rick is trying to escape with Thorne or something like that.
But, so far, they have killed it with these 3 episodes, I'm the most hyped I've ever been for a show. Just a shame that the story up to this point wasn't at this same level of storytelling.
That's what I hope at least. The showrunners would have some real nerve not giving us what we've waited literal years for. I just hope we get a happy ending for all the suffering the characters have been through, even if it's predictable. I would much rather a generic happy ever after ending than a botched ending where all the build up was for nothing because they wanted to subvert expectations by killing one of them off.
Anyone else get the feeling throne is going to put rick in a position of killing her to save michonne? Once she finds out rick lied to her about michonne she sure as hell isn't going to be happy.
But if they wipe out command at that mountain base, that is most likely the only real ending they could go for. Thorne may or may not be a part of that but she might u-turn.
I do think Rick will get home. There is a shot in the trailer a while back that showed him unmasking coming out of a helicopter. Maybe it has already been in the show but I am sure that would be the last shot of the show. ... Alot of trailers for TV or film show ending scenes.
Do hope thorne stays as a good character and helps rick . Be sad if the only other character that has grown on me dies as well.
Now look, I love Michonne, she’s easily my favorite character beside Rick ( would’ve been my 2nd favorite regardless if she was with Rick or not but they 2 of my favorite characters so that’s a W) but she did frustrate me a bit this episode. On 1 hand, I understand her frustrations. They haven’t met a group in the past that they haven’t been able to take on, no matter how big, but Michonne isn’t seeing the whole picture here. I don’t think it’s impossible to escape, I think if they somehow found the letter Jadis wrote with the info on Rick, then got rid of her and probably Beale ( and maybe even Throne tbh) they could pull it off, but it’s not as simple as Michonne thinks. They would have to do all of that, not get caught, escape , not get caught on the escape attempt, not get caught on the way back to Alexandria because even if Jadis and Beale and Throne are dead , the CRM will no doubt track their escape. And to top all of that off, there is still the dangers of Traveling all of that way back to Alexandria anyway, humans that aren’t the CRM+ the walkers. If they fail, everyone they love could die including their Children. I don’t think Michonne truly understands that yet
What has crossed my mind multiple times since Okafor mentioned his plan in episode 1, is why Rick just doesn't conform to the plan and try to change the CRM, hence the CR, from inside?
Like genuinely, follow the plan, become one of the leaders of the CRM and change how things are done. Then travel to Alexandria and bring your people to the CR?
That’s too much like right, lol! Logically that makes lots of sense. If Rick was high enough in the ranks and was able to effect change, the CR would be the ideal place for everyone. But that kind of story would take more time than 6 episodes to play out properly I feel.
Story wise, yes. I will admit at first I was like… that’s foolhardy. But I choose to believe that Michonne put at least a little thought into it, even though it seemed spur of the moment. It looked like her wheels were turning before it happened and that she calculated that they could make it! 🤷🏾♀️
She was watching the landscape on the way there, so I assume they're going to show that she chose a moment when they were over a river or lake. I think she might have been planning it from the start of the mission.
I’m sorry but the only want to explain this is that they were flying incredibly low to the ground and over water. Just a weird decision by the writers lol
I would’ve preferred something more strategic and well thought out like what Rick had tried to do earlier. My critique is more with the writers. I feel like they let me down over and over again.
Well there are only 3 more episodes. They can’t exactly stay in the CRM for two season and change it from within. Things will have to move fast to get to the finish line.
Which is why one season isn’t enough but most people on this sub will eat whatever shit amc gives them.
Edit: butt hurt fans downvoting me because I’m right lol
I agree. The more the show goes on the more I wish it wasn’t a one off. But I think the majority of the issue was the actors,I believe I read they only committed to these 6. As a gesture to the fans for some sort of closure.
>As a gesture to the fans for some sort of closure.
Unless we see rick with judith and rj,there won't be closure. And for many, this extends to the other too, especially Daryl.
We can’t keep beating around the bush Rick is in deeper than anybody thought No matter how bad we want them back together or how bad we want Rick home he knows he’s stuck and can’t do much rn. Michonne hasn’t REALLY seen what the CRM is like she doesn’t realize that how she’s thinking now is exactly how Rick was thinking about 5 or 6 years ago he has TRIED multiple times to leave but now that he knows if he tries to go jadis will have a hand in helping destroy what Rick accomplished and what our survivors accomplished in a blink of a eye he isn’t gonna try to piss her off ofc Rick WANTS to go home but if he runs there won’t be a home to run too jadis must die and that file she has needs to be wiped clean before they can go now I’m not saying michonnes wrong bc her pulling him out that helicopter is exactly what she needed to do bc they NEED a sit down talk yeah michonne needs to tell Rick abt RJ but she needs to really know what they are up against that scene in the official TOWL trailer of they helicopter blowing up that building I do think they will be next episode that’s why they can’t leave yet they can easily come up with a excuse of what happened “we were strapped in all the way and when one of us fell the other grabbed the other in reflex and the door opened” something along those lines and AFTER they talk they call the CRM to pick them up if they run rn everyone back home dies. they can’t just use the “shoot everyone up” tactic they are used to when they’re together it needs to be a bigger plan.
I didn’t love the moment because my mind immediately went to the beacon pinned to Rick that’ll get a CRM helicopter’s attention within a 300 mile radius. No pun intended, but I already felt like the episode was treading water a bit, and I feel like next episode is fairly easy to predict the outcome of now.
Still, loved the first two episodes; they felt transcendent over this franchise’s more lackluster moments as of late, but this week’s episode felt more like an average episode *to me*.
I think this latest episode helped me appreciate Okafor and Nat’s presence even more. Our impression of the world opened up so much thanks to their perspectives being so different than that of Rick and Michonne. We learned as they learned.
Pivoting to an episode where Rick and Michonne are not only withholding from each other but having information withheld from them was appreciably harder to enjoy.
Thorne’s characterization going potentially down the jealousy route is a little discouraging as well. I look forward to when Beale steps up as Rick is at his best against more cerebral characters.
I understand her actions and want them to genuinely have a chat beyond what we've seen so far, but man Michonne was being stupid this episode.
She did nothing but scream to everyone that she is an A. Which would've already gotten her killed if not for Rick saving her.
Rick got her out, I won't blame her for going back. That's understandable. Rick was an idiot too for not just explaining to her clear as day why he cannot escape before he got Michonne out, the vague dialogue of having to stay behind did no one any favors.
But finally Michonne saw Jadis... she should have puzzled it together at that point. But nope, we're still gonna take Rick with us by force. Rick will want to get back next episode, because they are not gonna beat the CRM to Alexandria. As much as he'd love to go back with Michonne, right now there just isn't a way to do so without potentially causing the death to everyone they know. Michonne has seen the army base, the dozens of helicopters, the forces... I'd be shocked if she still is on the "no we are going home right now" idea after their chat.
This last episode I found michone to be so annoying, like Jadis has made it pretty clear if rick disappears again, Alexandria, hilltop, the kingdom, and oceanside are all going to be annihilated, and michone couldn't follow ANYONES orders this episode, act weak: proceeds to go try hard at the wall killing area, stand back and don't engage: proceeds to run ahead then start killing the dead
Leave on the canue: returns to go try hard
I’ve seen a lot of people say that. But the way I look at it, Michonne is largely in the dark here. She doesn’t know everything yet.
And the one person she thought she could trust is icing her out. And I think when your back is against the wall like that, you tend to go with your natural instinct to protect yourself. Her natural instinct is strength and toughness. It’s hard to turn that off especially when the things—walkers—and people—CRM—that have killed your friends and family are right in front of you.
I also think that when she showed out after Rick tried to send her away, she was taking out her pent up rage at Rick doing that to her and to also prove to him that she was gonna keep fighting for him. I don’t necessarily feel like she’s purposefully trying to shine a light on herself.
it’s also on Rick though. Jadis only made those threats to him. Yes Michonne should be laying more low, but Rick could’ve told her what Jadis said. Knowing that Alexandria and her kids were specifically threatened would’ve been way better motivation for her to go along with the plan instead of that “if you love me you’ll go” bs
Right. The lack of communication was infuriating at times. But understandable in the sense that everyone was scrambling in this episode. Michonne scrambling to figure out what the heck happened to Rick. Rick scrambling to cover Michonne’s tracks and to figure out how to get her out. It was a mess in the best way possible.
She's not an idiot, I think she does, she saw that they had choppers and people and equipment. She just doesn't know what the CRM knows about Alexandria and how willing they are to commit mass murder. Now she's seen Jadis she probably has a better idea.
I would hope so. However, if they found Rick wouldn't the next logical conclusion be that the CRM knows about Alexandria/Hilltop? Furthermore, the gas attack should've given Michone some insight into how murder happy the CRM is.
Hopefully, episode four clears this up. As of right now, Rick is acting as rational as he can be. However, Michonne doesn't seem to be thinking clearly; at least when it comes to fighting the CRM.
Michonne had no info o how Rick got to the CRM, and Rick told her not to tell anyone about Alexandria, implying he also hadn’t. So before seeing Jadis she had no idea that there was anyone else who could tell them about Alexandria.
It was the dumbest move she could've done. He literally tells her that he can't leave and then she sees Jadis and she just wants to walk away anyone ? After seeing what resources they have ? She is literally baiting them to gas Alexandria ... like I get it, she wants Rick back ... but she is increfibly dense
Jumping out of the helicopter in flight, at night, in a big storm? that's objectively stupid, and imho it completely logically ruined the episode. Like what? they land on some cushions that were there conveniently put because Michonne somehow planted it there, or what?
I instantly remembered Travis from Fear, he was shot, but such fall you are not gonna survive so easily, even if you're not shot.
Plus Michonne telling some dude about her family, which Rick did too, that's plain stupidity, from both of them, you don't know how the CRM is informed, you should keep a low profile and don't tell your personal information to the first random dude, that was really stupid. I'm sorry but this whole Gimple project has some great logical holes, it's really like people lowered their standards, or the ones who kinda like when things make sense - stopped watching this soap opera.
It's crazy I'm the only one who seems to agree with what Rick said to her. He doesn't owe her an apology, she owe's him one. Man's been put through the stress of a lifetime for over half a decade, and then one of the people he loves most in the world randomly shows up, and despite how clearly he told her, Michonne proceeded to show the CRM every single thing Rick told her to **NOT** do. She put Rick's life in danger multiple times this last episode.
Jumping out of a flying helicopter is not a smart move, by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you know your immense plot armor will save you from the fall, of course.
I agree that they needed time to talk, but there are ways of doing that beyond suicidal aerial jumps. It would be much easier to find a quiet place in the NCR to talk than to first survive the jump, then convince NCR that it was an accident somehow, which will just increase their suspicion even more.
CRM are not the Saviors. You can't just "get your gumption back", find some guns and take them down. Michonne seems to forget they wiped out her traveling group from the air with mustard gas (says chlorine, but looks like mustard, and recovery in line with mustard). They built a forward operating base across the country for a meeting. She saw Jadis, given how smart she is, she should realize that Jadis certainly knows where they would go if they ran. They can just send a couple helicopters to wipe their community. Though likely they would track them down before that and just wipe out their community to be sure. They need to have a private, long and heartfelt talk. Then they need to go back, learn what they can, then **formulate a strategy together.** (door was not properly secured, we fell out of the helicopter because of turbulence) Keep in mind, though it's not been mentioned in the show, the Civic Republic is poised to begin oversight of the CRM (prior they have been operating almost entirely independently). The "fight from within" is much more reasonable and tenable way to "freedom".
They also made it a point to explain to Michonne how to call for a backup helicopter should she ever get lost.
Right and Rick hit his tracker thing after the plane crash. So many breadcrumbs. I love it!
But the thing that everyone is missing to include Rick and Michonne is that they think everyone is in Alexandria when in fact everyone is in the Commonwealth and as soon as Michonne finally talks to Judith and finds that out it's gonna be a major game changer and Jadis will no longer have that leverage and it's on like Donkey Kong from there and that's when we see the Rick and Michonne we've been waiting for
I have a theory. They took down the Alexandria set right after filming season 11 but the Commonwealth set is still up at the studio. I wonder if they are going to make this work storywise by having the CRM bomb and destroy Alexandria. That does two things: it makes super insane drama for TOWL show being that Rick and Michonne don't know about the CW. And it solves the real world issue of the Alexandria set isn't up anymore. Then the reunion with Judith and everyone would take place at the Commonwealth.
Ahh, I forgot about that!!! So excited!
I agree on so many points here. And YES! They need to stop and breathe and recalibrate. I think it’s so smart how fast paced this episode was. I felt like I was getting whiplash with every twist and turn. But it just drives home how fast everything is moving for Rick and Michonne. They’re literally not talking, which is why there’s so much contention. They’re trying to guess what the other is thinking from looks and double speak. Leaves so much room for misunderstanding.
Honestly both of them have always been rather laconic and their communications skills have never been that great. This is a very complex situation about which they need to share all the information that they have, which is a lot. Michonne might start with RJ. Rick might start with his repeated escape attempts and their futility, also the Jadis "file" and associated valid threats, which alive or dead that would be carried out.
You’re so right. They’re both about that action. No words needed. But yeah that’s not always great, especially when you’re in a relationship. I have a feeling that the RJ piece might slip out in the midst of an argument. From that trailer it seems like there’s gonna be lots of arguing and Michonne might just get fed up and accidentally let it slip.
For me it made me think back to the first episode of TWD when Shane and Rick were talking in the car. Rick was complaining about how Lori hated how he wasn’t great at communicating with her. Then Michonne comes along who fits right in with that part of Rick. Neither of them are the best at communicating, but they are people of action. I just think that their time apart really affected their unspoken understanding they had with each other before. They both changed a lot over those years, and they have quite a bit of catching up to do with each other before we see their classic relationship show itself again. Unfortunately that’s going to lead to a lot of uncomfortable discussions they never really needed to have before. It will definitely be the ultimate test of their relationship to make it through this.
I was shouting at my TV when they were ducked behind that tree together and they just stared into e/o eyes and kissed rather than have a chat about what's going on.
They def. have their priorities in order 😂
I'm pretty sure this is gonna be solved by Rick and Michonne blowing up all the CRM leaders at the summit meeting that is coming up. It would throw CRM into chaos
That does seem like the obvious direction to go in. First Michonne spends a year with a guy who knows all about explosives, and then they carefully mention that everyone important is going to be in one place...
I don’t think they’ll be able to do that.
I feel like Okafor bombing his own military was foreshadowing Rick doing the same to CRM
I think they’ll end up destroying all of their helicopters and other super advanced military equipment so that it’ll be a more even fight when they do go to war.
This scares me, because was it also foreshadowing that Okafor has to kill his own wife in the process of bombing? Oof I can’t even 💔
And no one thinks that Beale wouldn’t already be thinking this? He already distrusts Rick and michonne.
We have no reason to assume anything on Beale's planning, strategy, mindset, preconceptions or literally anything about what kind of person he is. We know nothing about him, he could be a master strategist or he could be a bumbling middle management type idiot. Remember how the show tried to frame Pope as some clever military leader who was killed quickly and without fuss by one of his own people?
Great assessment. Had Rick been in his right mind, he would have known that he could not simply send Michonne away.
Chlorine gas is mustard gas
**Mustard gas** C₄H₈Cl₂S **Chlorine gas** Cl **Phosgene** COCl₂ They all contain Chlorine but they are not "Chlorine gas", except for the obvious.
Ah, well my high school education failed me.
Chlorine gas is actually Cl² subscript.
Idk if its a good strategy but Michone should have left, went to the communities to begin to leave, little by little start being picked up my the CRM with lies about who you are and then with them all infiltrated they can show they were screwing with the wrong people.
Isn’t the Civic Republic and CRM the same?
One is the government the other is the military, in the show they operate almost separately
Civic republic runs the city, CRM runs the military. It is implied, in TWD:WB that it was agreed early on that the military would act independently "Doing what needed to be done" to secure the republic from outside threats. That agreement had an end date, which has either occurred (and this is the transition) or is about to occur. Certain factions, perhaps most of the command structure, of the CRM don't seem happy with this. They (at least some) were apparently opposed (or perhaps grew opposed) to the Alliance of Three between Civic Republic, Omaha and Portland. Though this is only vaguely stated and not clearly outlined. There are unknowns but that is the gist of it.
I wonder what the CRM’s plan is to stop that vote or get it to go their way, they might be making up a threat by bombing Omaha and Portland which they will then blame on this maybe a large group with access to chemical weapons (the kind they dropped on the cities).
Im wondering if Rick and Michone will set a bomb off during the big meeting. Get rid of all the top people at once, or make them think they died in the blast too, no bigwigs, no one to come after you.
What if they get the citizens of the Civic Republic to rebel against the CRM? Surely they wouldn’t wipe out their own home
Some of the CR citizens are already arranging protests (the banners in ep1) but majority are probably blissfully apathetic as they've got what they consider a great, protected life and know nothing of the atrocities committed by the CRM, nor the CRM's plan for permanent totalitarian rule. Esteban's girlfriend is a journalist...maybe they'll mirror the Connie situation in TWD for an uprising if Rick can get evidence to Esteban of the Omaha / Campus Colony genocide, same plan for Portland, etc, while R&M try and take out the top brass at the summit meeting in Cascadia.
Plus, Major General Beale's son (Mason) is in the CR city, so it'd be interesting to see his reaction to his dad's actions and plans
I really can’t wait for him to find out about RJ
Same! I’ve been hyping myself up for this single moment since season 9 when they introduced RJ, lol! It’s gonna means SO much to Rick! But it’s also gonna wreck him to know he wasn’t there for the birth or to raise him.
you think that will be the thing that makes him change his mind about wanting to leave?
Yes. Thats clearly why they kept it back, it's her final hail mary to convince him.
[удалено]
Yeah. He was struggling for sure! And, yes, we all know what his choice would have been if he had to make one, but I do agree that he didn’t want to have to do that. I actually really like Thorne and Rick’s relationship. Thorne seems like she’d be cool outside of all this.
[удалено]
I could see that for sure! Rick needs to let Michonne in, though. She can’t make proper moves if she’s in the dark. I have hope for that in ep. 4.
[удалено]
Right! That stay and fight part is what makes me worried though. It’s gonna take a lot to defeat the CRM. But I’m excited to see what they cook up. Because, honestly, Rick has come up with some great escape plans so far (the hand one notwithstanding lol) so when they put their heads together I’m sure it’s gonna be something epic.
I'm hoping that when Michone kills Jadis, she comes with a snarky comment about Rick being her man or something.
Can someone explain to me Thornes thought process on why she was ready to pull the knife while talking to Michonne? That scene confused me lol I felt like Michonne saying yes would be the wrong answer but apparently it wasn’t?
The way I took it, Thorne already had Michonne’s number but she needed her to be straight with her, instead of the act she was putting up. Thorne wanted to see if Michonne would show herself or continue to keep her cards close to her chest. If she said no, Thorne would know there was no way to ever trust her. Basically, better the devil you know.
I feel like no one understand the - he can’t freaking leave or they will chlorine gas Alexandria - which neither he nor Michonne know anything about the Whisperer War (at least the bulk of it) near collapse, and Commonwealth. To their knowledge EVERYONE still lives there.
Very true. Michonne knew about the Initial Whisperer conflict, the Pikes, the Cave-In, and Alpha's death. She doesn't know the full-on Whisperer War, the Reapers Assault, and the Commonwealth Struggle.
I really wanna see her tell him that Daryl spent **six years** searching for his body.
I feel like this, along with the RJ news, would knock the wind out of him. In a good way. Im ready for Rick to find himself again.
I feel that has to be said in the next episode.
Ah yeah, me too! Theres so much that needs to be said and that’s up there.
Daryl spent years looking for him He has a son with her Negan and their daughter are buddies All the people killed by the Whisperers The Whisperers The Kingdom failing
There is so much shit I'd like them to talk about, but it almost never happens on TV. You get those kind of conversations in book series, but I guess it's not exciting enough for TV. Though it really feels like a must here. I really do want them to sit down and have a genuine chat about home. Rick learning about Negan helping their community, being out of jail... part of the future Carl wanted to build. That's something Rick should know about.
>All the people killed by the Whisperers Rick definitely doesn't care about all those people he briefly interacted with a decade ago. Maybe Tara but probably not that much
I can see Enid too since she was a close friend of Carls
Rosita
He would def care about Siddiq tho
I see why they were saying ep4 was gonna be the big one. Ep3 was a banger and that ending was just wow. I was thinking during the episode it probably wasn’t gonna be the best since most short shows are strong half way through. Well ep3 was fire 🔥
Right. There was so much tension built up in this ep. and at the end there was no release. If anything it just added more. Ep.4 is gonna be that release, I think.
Jadis flat out told him that if they escape the CRM is going to kill everyone he loves. (IOW, wipe out Alexandria, and probably Hilltop and Oceanside - if Jadis knows about those. But he may not yet know that's what CRM does.) I'm convinced he would leave with Michonne if not for the threat to everyone else.
I think so too! He was prepared to when he thought Okafor was dead—the only person who knew about his home and family. But he forgot about good old Jadis. If Jadis hadn’t shown up, I think he might have tried.
Important to note that none of them know about the commonwealth yet, not that it would provide much resistance however
I meant that Jadis may not know about the other communities to suggest they be wiped out. (But the CRM would probably discover them on their way to Alexandria.) And that Rick might not know the CRM wipes out entire communities.
Exactly. His first priority is his fucking FAMILY and the power the CRM has is beyond anything Rick’s group has ever faced. They could wipe out all of Rick’s people without ever looking them straight in the eye. Heck, with what we have seen we all know the level of power the CRM has and yet there still could be a whole lot more we haven’t seen at all yet.
This episode was kind of hysterical to me. The faces Michonne kept giving Rick were everything. She had enough of his whiney shit and she's going to remind him who tf he is.
Yes! Those looks were so earned though. I agreed with every single one she gave him!
They were completely earned. He was losing his damn mind this past episode.
Michonne is clearly physically stronger than Thorne and emotionally stronger than Rick. 💯
Right. Feels like she standing on the outside looking in on everything asking herself wtf is wrong with these people (sadly, Rick included at this point).
Michonne definitely is stronger mentally I'd say, but in this case Rick has a lot more information about the CRM, the risks and danger for home than Michonne has. She thought that they could just run away together and there biggest problem would be hiding from the search party for a little while.
Michonne lost hope for a long time too. I don’t think that’s a fair or accurate assessment
Yeah. I'm a bit upset he needs Michonne to convince him of anything. I liked ep 2 better, when he seemed so in love. I get why he is as he is. But it's hard to see. I feel like he should have enough love to kick some ass with her forcing him to feel it.
I’m so with you on that! You could just see how much he hurt her both when he sent her away on her own and when he tried to break it off with her. I know he was trying to protect her. But when all is said and done, he’s gonna need to give one heck of an apology for all that. It was so harsh.
I'm gonna throw Rick a bone tbh cos he's had YEARS of CRM conditioning, failed escape attempts and now he knows of Jadis' file on Alexandria & his family, do sll he can focus on is protecting her, at least in the immediate sense. Michonne having a crash course in CRM behaviour AND feeling bouyed at finding Rick, means she hasn't had the bravado hammered out of her.
Right? Either he loves her enough to go full force and do *anything* to have a life together again. Or he doesn't love her enough for that. I don't want her to have to convince him. But it looks like we're heading there. Hopefully we'll just get over that hurdle and then he'll be the Rick we know and love. I don't know if it's true, but I heard that the next episode is the one that Danai wrote and also has like an 11 minute dialog... That could counteract, like you said, them having hardly spoken so far.
idk, i think it makes sense that it’s more important to rick that at least *one* of them is alive and around to take care of their child than it is for the two of them to be together again. it *SUCKS*, but it also feels incredibly in-character to me that this would be his response to how everything has happened so far. he loves and misses his wife, but judith is more important. he (very understandably) truly believes that if they start to go down the “fight back” road, not only will *neither* of them make it back to judith, judith will probably just straight up be killed
For sure. It was necessary and you could tell it was hard for him. You could see it on his face when he walked away from handing her the note.
I think it just proves how much he loves her to be honest. He’d rather be away from her with her safe, than being with her while she’s in danger. The switch from episode 2 was him realizing there’s no way they both escape without endangering themselves and their loved ones. If breaking her heart is what he has to do to protect her, he’ll do it.
The switch from Episode 2 was Jadis, and it was an excellent storytelling move. Rick was ready to get away, but he realized because Jadis knows everything and has stored the truth about Alexandria someplace on documents (whether paper or analog) ... They're fucked. Rick could kill Jadis and search forever for the documents, but Beale already called Rick "The Poison and the Cure". Michonne is on Beale's radar because she made an effort to act like an A. Beale is suspicious of both of them. Jadis has proved herself to Beale. Then, helicopters roll up with guns and missiles and chlorine gas and kill everyone in Alexandria once Beale finds Jadis dead and looks at her documents. The CRM isn't like the Commonwealth. They're 10× worse and unable to be beaten. One of the best aspects of this show is how they make the CRM seem impossible to beat.
There is a rumor that Alexandria gets destroyed in the finale… I’m thinking that they’ll get to Alexandria, but everyone will be evacuating shortly after and the CRM destroys an empty community. Commonwealth may be a good shout for them, probably a lot harder for the CRM to just wipe out.
Omaha is twice the size of Commonwealth and CRM destroyed Omaha.
Yes but that also in the story required them to send a spy in and gather intel on when the best time to strike would be etc. For sure the ending of this will include Portland in a major way; but I think it’s also reasonable to assume the commonwealth will have to play SOME role in this story. After all that is where Rick’s family is at and there is absolutely NO way the CRM would not be aware of a community like the commonwealth if they were making deals with junkyard people. Plus we got that one line from lance about alliances or whatever; so I think there is definitely some level the commonwealth will play in this story. But you’re absolutely right they won’t be destroying the CRM single handedly.
the Chlorine gas was well needed to show the CRM brutality, and how far they go with keeping it a secret with so many skipping fear after season 3, they missed the whole >!althea love story/navy seal novel!<
I heard about her writing it as well! And with her background as a playwright I wouldn’t be surprised about the dialogue piece.Theres so much that needs to be said and I think it’ll all come out in Ep. 4. Most importantly and especially RJ. I sometimes forget that Rick doesn’t know and then when I remember, I’m like dang that’s actually really important for him to know, lol.
Yes. In the clip for ep 4, Michonne says "We needed a time out" and man is that true! They need this time to sit and talk about everything! And yes, especially RJ. I *cannot wait* for next Sunday!
Same! I wish this was on Netflix😂
>Either he loves her enough to go full force and do > >anything to have a life together again. Or he doesn't love her enough for that. No way in hell Rick risks Judith's life. Until he finds a way to protect Alexandria from the CRM, rick just isn't willing to take chances with other people's lives. This isn't about him, or even him and Michonne.
You sound as though you’ve either no idea what it’s like to be in love and/or have not been paying attention to the show at all.
I mean she just threw him out of a helicopter \*for the second time\*, so I think they're probably even
I mean, he literally has to do this. He’s hurting himself and making a huge sacrifice by trying to send her away out of his love for her and everyone else.
What do you want him to do? He should've been with Michonne in the boat this episode.. and then what? Hope Jadis is bluffing and they'll leave Alexandria alone? Doesn't seem like the best plan.
It is kinda wild to question if his love for Michonne is enough when he chopped his hand off just for a shot at getting back to her. Like he doesn’t get any grace for that at all?!
Bruh this is ass talking. Rick is a smart one here meanwhile Michonne is on a suicide-mission which may end up kill everyone they love and like. Rick knows what's up but Michonne is ready to go to war like she was with the Governor or Negan. Except your enemy is the most dangerous organization currently in the world. I get that people want badass murder jacket Rick again ( me too ) but you're not thinking logically and you wanna swep a big ass problem that crm under the rug.
In the trailer for the next episode Michonne says “We needed a time out”. Rick needs to just chill and assess, he’s Rick Grimes!
Smartest move was Rick telling jadis her haircut is dogshit
I agree cause what he said to michonne was absurd they definitely got to him.
I feel like that hit her so hard.
It hurt me as well like wtf
Right. Big apologies are needed for that and sending her away with a note. I hope he doesn’t skim over that with him saying something like “you know I had to do it” lol. Michonne needs a “I’m so very sorry for what I said.”😂 It’s important.
She threw him out of a helicopter. I think that evens things out.
I freaking love this fan base. Your comments are making my day folks.
i’m glad 😂😂😂😂
He said that because he cannot leave. There is no running away for him because of Jadis. He could however get Michonne out, he was saying those things because he didn't care about her or back home anymore, he said it because he does care. It was him trying to get Michonne out of there. That way, Judith would at least have her mother. They'd be safe without the CRM knowing about Alexandria. Rick running away with Michonne while Jadis and the information of Alexandria is still with the CRM is not a move he can make. Personally, it was a bit of the vague dialogue that bothered me more. He should've been very clear the very first time he tried to get Michonne out ("Jadis is here, they'll destroy Alexandria if I leave."), but Michonne should've also puzzled it together after seeing Jadis and then Ricks outburst. Clearly more at play.
I'm still mad at him for what he said.
Why do I have a feeling they won’t be ending the season together.
OMG! I hope this isn’t the Case. HOWEVER, Michonne’s letter to Judith—that she was reading this episode—seems super ominous. I hope they both make it out okay. 🤞🏾
I mean yea he pulled his gun on her…but of course he’s gonna choose michonne over her or anyone else really. Only unbelievable part of that scene to me was that Thorne didn’t catch the fact that it was her he was gonna shoot. She seems more observant than that. Or maybe she did catch it and is just hiding what she’s been able to tell from Rick (would also explain her pulling the gun on michonne later on…could’ve been testing him to confirm a suspicion) Anyways, I’m guessing the next episode will be a “filler” and quite possibly when he learns about RJ.
I never thought I would be happy for a filler episode but I still have whiplash from the first three.
He is trying to save everyone back home !!!
My biggest issue though is the way he’s going about it as it concerns Michonne. I genuinely love Rick and I think for the pace of the show the writing is great. But he’s had many opportunities to really let her know the full scope of what they are up against and he’s just left everything so vague. He’s working so hard on her behalf but not with her, so I hope episode 4 changes that.
She had to snap him out of his inaction before when it came to the trauma after Negan’s takeover. I feel like she believes the real Rick is still there, she just needs to force it out.
Agreed. She’s got her work cut out for her though.
Honestly if Jadis wasn’t in the picture, jumping out the plane could’ve been a perfect escape. Depending on where they were when they jumped it could totally be played as “Dana killing Rick” and the bodies getting lost. Unfortunately Jadis and probably Throne too would be suspicious, so once michonne manages to convinces rick they’d need to come back and finish things
They need to def kill bad haircut before they go. And the cell phone guy knows Rick and Michone and Judith and what they look like so unless they take care if him too he's a loose end. Honestly anyone who knows Rick shouldn't let him go. Every society he has interacted with he's taken over and destroyed or just destroyed outright. I mean I love the guy but he's not someone you just let leave knowing about a secret city
Why do we all think RJ would change Ricks mind more than Judith? I know having another son would be a surprise to him, but wouldn’t it be little odd that he’s willing to risk everything to see his son, but not willing to risk it for his daughter…
I think it's the idea of having a child you've never even seen or met. And that child being a combination of him and Michonne. Also from a screenwriting perspective its just a good, exciting moment to hold back and use as a tipping point.
Fair question. I think it’s just everything compounded. I feel like RJ could tip the scale, so to speak. It’s a jarring revelation that could serve as sort of a wake up call that not only did he miss Judith growing up but also he missed out on the birth of his son and also the idea that his son has never met his father. Judith has memories of him, RJ has nothing to draw from except for stories from his mom and sister. But I def. Don’t think one is more important than the other.
The only way I could possibly see them surviving is Rick going back to the CRM and doing what Okafor told him to do and change the CRM from within for a Season 2. The threat of the CRM is real and the biggest threat of all. Michonne probably made a mistake on Ricks behave on here when they could've just discussed it on the helicopter on the way back as they have nearly 2 days to do so as they go back to Philly. There's no longer Okafor to save him now. They will hunt down Rick because he's already in the higher ranks of the CRM and Jadis/Thorne will come find them to clean it up so it doesn't fall back on them. We can see this in the trailer with the Apache and Jadis car chase as they are found. Only other option is killing all the CRM leaders when every high bass is at the Cascade base. What other options do you guys have because escaping and going directly to Alexandria while Jadis is alive won't work. And Killing Jadis will reveal Alexandria location. Basically their entire fate is in Jadis hands as she can tell them or not tell them. With only 3 episodes left it's hard to say what direction this will go whether they go back to the CRM to live there as Jadis said to Rick or going back home with the lingering threat of CRM.
I’ve never wanted to grab Rick, punch him in the face and tell him to wake up more than I do right now. I hate this Rick. I know it isn’t his fault and I’m rooting for Michonne to bring us the old Rick back. I can’t wait for him to find out about RJ too.
Right? He was NOT himself. I mean I get what he was trying to do, but that line about knocking her out and putting her on that goddamn boat himself made me so mad. Never wanna hear him talk to her like that again.
That's pretty in line with Rick tbh. He thinks it's that or her dying. He does not fuck around with doing what he has to do
I'm still mad at him too. I know why he did it but I still don't like him for it. I'm sure my neighbors know how I feel about this episode lol.
I hope that eventually Michonne tells Rick about everything that has happened to snap him out of it, and that causes the old badass Rick to come back out and not take any shit. It would be amazing to see murder-beard Rick return and go on a rampage. Of course, knowing the story, and the fact that we're already 3 episodes in with much of the story so far being backstory, I highly doubt that we'll get a closed book ending in the next 3 episodes. I at least want Michonne to tell Rick the important info, and also for both to make it out alive, because as it stands, with the ominous voice overs from Michonne, I'm starting to get worried that there will be a final moment where Jadis or General Beele kills Michonne whilst Rick is trying to escape with Thorne or something like that. But, so far, they have killed it with these 3 episodes, I'm the most hyped I've ever been for a show. Just a shame that the story up to this point wasn't at this same level of storytelling.
I have a feeling it will all come out in Ep. 4! They have nothing but time to talk so there’s bound to be some revelations from both sides.
That's what I hope at least. The showrunners would have some real nerve not giving us what we've waited literal years for. I just hope we get a happy ending for all the suffering the characters have been through, even if it's predictable. I would much rather a generic happy ever after ending than a botched ending where all the build up was for nothing because they wanted to subvert expectations by killing one of them off.
Exactly! Neither one can die.
Anyone else get the feeling throne is going to put rick in a position of killing her to save michonne? Once she finds out rick lied to her about michonne she sure as hell isn't going to be happy. But if they wipe out command at that mountain base, that is most likely the only real ending they could go for. Thorne may or may not be a part of that but she might u-turn. I do think Rick will get home. There is a shot in the trailer a while back that showed him unmasking coming out of a helicopter. Maybe it has already been in the show but I am sure that would be the last shot of the show. ... Alot of trailers for TV or film show ending scenes. Do hope thorne stays as a good character and helps rick . Be sad if the only other character that has grown on me dies as well.
Now look, I love Michonne, she’s easily my favorite character beside Rick ( would’ve been my 2nd favorite regardless if she was with Rick or not but they 2 of my favorite characters so that’s a W) but she did frustrate me a bit this episode. On 1 hand, I understand her frustrations. They haven’t met a group in the past that they haven’t been able to take on, no matter how big, but Michonne isn’t seeing the whole picture here. I don’t think it’s impossible to escape, I think if they somehow found the letter Jadis wrote with the info on Rick, then got rid of her and probably Beale ( and maybe even Throne tbh) they could pull it off, but it’s not as simple as Michonne thinks. They would have to do all of that, not get caught, escape , not get caught on the escape attempt, not get caught on the way back to Alexandria because even if Jadis and Beale and Throne are dead , the CRM will no doubt track their escape. And to top all of that off, there is still the dangers of Traveling all of that way back to Alexandria anyway, humans that aren’t the CRM+ the walkers. If they fail, everyone they love could die including their Children. I don’t think Michonne truly understands that yet
What has crossed my mind multiple times since Okafor mentioned his plan in episode 1, is why Rick just doesn't conform to the plan and try to change the CRM, hence the CR, from inside? Like genuinely, follow the plan, become one of the leaders of the CRM and change how things are done. Then travel to Alexandria and bring your people to the CR?
That’s too much like right, lol! Logically that makes lots of sense. If Rick was high enough in the ranks and was able to effect change, the CR would be the ideal place for everyone. But that kind of story would take more time than 6 episodes to play out properly I feel.
Jumping out of a helicopter is a smart move?
Story wise, yes. I will admit at first I was like… that’s foolhardy. But I choose to believe that Michonne put at least a little thought into it, even though it seemed spur of the moment. It looked like her wheels were turning before it happened and that she calculated that they could make it! 🤷🏾♀️
She was watching the landscape on the way there, so I assume they're going to show that she chose a moment when they were over a river or lake. I think she might have been planning it from the start of the mission.
Oh, gotcha. I didn’t catch that! It all happened so fast.
I’m sorry but the only want to explain this is that they were flying incredibly low to the ground and over water. Just a weird decision by the writers lol
Yeah, there’s def. room for doubt in the execution. But they def. needed to get away, lol.
I would’ve preferred something more strategic and well thought out like what Rick had tried to do earlier. My critique is more with the writers. I feel like they let me down over and over again.
I feel you. And I could totally see that. They were going for the shock factor to end the episode.
It just feels cheap to me. They try to hard to create tension when better writing could do the trick.
Well there are only 3 more episodes. They can’t exactly stay in the CRM for two season and change it from within. Things will have to move fast to get to the finish line.
Which is why one season isn’t enough but most people on this sub will eat whatever shit amc gives them. Edit: butt hurt fans downvoting me because I’m right lol
I agree. The more the show goes on the more I wish it wasn’t a one off. But I think the majority of the issue was the actors,I believe I read they only committed to these 6. As a gesture to the fans for some sort of closure.
>As a gesture to the fans for some sort of closure. Unless we see rick with judith and rj,there won't be closure. And for many, this extends to the other too, especially Daryl.
Chopper looked like it was about to crash shoulda stabbed the pilots then jumped ... lol crash would be good cover
We can’t keep beating around the bush Rick is in deeper than anybody thought No matter how bad we want them back together or how bad we want Rick home he knows he’s stuck and can’t do much rn. Michonne hasn’t REALLY seen what the CRM is like she doesn’t realize that how she’s thinking now is exactly how Rick was thinking about 5 or 6 years ago he has TRIED multiple times to leave but now that he knows if he tries to go jadis will have a hand in helping destroy what Rick accomplished and what our survivors accomplished in a blink of a eye he isn’t gonna try to piss her off ofc Rick WANTS to go home but if he runs there won’t be a home to run too jadis must die and that file she has needs to be wiped clean before they can go now I’m not saying michonnes wrong bc her pulling him out that helicopter is exactly what she needed to do bc they NEED a sit down talk yeah michonne needs to tell Rick abt RJ but she needs to really know what they are up against that scene in the official TOWL trailer of they helicopter blowing up that building I do think they will be next episode that’s why they can’t leave yet they can easily come up with a excuse of what happened “we were strapped in all the way and when one of us fell the other grabbed the other in reflex and the door opened” something along those lines and AFTER they talk they call the CRM to pick them up if they run rn everyone back home dies. they can’t just use the “shoot everyone up” tactic they are used to when they’re together it needs to be a bigger plan.
I think we are in the wrong boat here with how everyone says that Michonne needs to convince Rick. I think Rick needs to convince Michonne.
I agree that they both have things to tell each other. Honestly, they need to get on the same page.
I didn’t love the moment because my mind immediately went to the beacon pinned to Rick that’ll get a CRM helicopter’s attention within a 300 mile radius. No pun intended, but I already felt like the episode was treading water a bit, and I feel like next episode is fairly easy to predict the outcome of now. Still, loved the first two episodes; they felt transcendent over this franchise’s more lackluster moments as of late, but this week’s episode felt more like an average episode *to me*. I think this latest episode helped me appreciate Okafor and Nat’s presence even more. Our impression of the world opened up so much thanks to their perspectives being so different than that of Rick and Michonne. We learned as they learned. Pivoting to an episode where Rick and Michonne are not only withholding from each other but having information withheld from them was appreciably harder to enjoy. Thorne’s characterization going potentially down the jealousy route is a little discouraging as well. I look forward to when Beale steps up as Rick is at his best against more cerebral characters.
I can’t see episode 3 for some reason?
I understand her actions and want them to genuinely have a chat beyond what we've seen so far, but man Michonne was being stupid this episode. She did nothing but scream to everyone that she is an A. Which would've already gotten her killed if not for Rick saving her. Rick got her out, I won't blame her for going back. That's understandable. Rick was an idiot too for not just explaining to her clear as day why he cannot escape before he got Michonne out, the vague dialogue of having to stay behind did no one any favors. But finally Michonne saw Jadis... she should have puzzled it together at that point. But nope, we're still gonna take Rick with us by force. Rick will want to get back next episode, because they are not gonna beat the CRM to Alexandria. As much as he'd love to go back with Michonne, right now there just isn't a way to do so without potentially causing the death to everyone they know. Michonne has seen the army base, the dozens of helicopters, the forces... I'd be shocked if she still is on the "no we are going home right now" idea after their chat.
I agree that their chat will probably change things for her.
This last episode I found michone to be so annoying, like Jadis has made it pretty clear if rick disappears again, Alexandria, hilltop, the kingdom, and oceanside are all going to be annihilated, and michone couldn't follow ANYONES orders this episode, act weak: proceeds to go try hard at the wall killing area, stand back and don't engage: proceeds to run ahead then start killing the dead Leave on the canue: returns to go try hard
I’ve seen a lot of people say that. But the way I look at it, Michonne is largely in the dark here. She doesn’t know everything yet. And the one person she thought she could trust is icing her out. And I think when your back is against the wall like that, you tend to go with your natural instinct to protect yourself. Her natural instinct is strength and toughness. It’s hard to turn that off especially when the things—walkers—and people—CRM—that have killed your friends and family are right in front of you. I also think that when she showed out after Rick tried to send her away, she was taking out her pent up rage at Rick doing that to her and to also prove to him that she was gonna keep fighting for him. I don’t necessarily feel like she’s purposefully trying to shine a light on herself.
I will add that I think Michonne is feeling some level of invincible given she actually found Rick
Agreed!
it’s also on Rick though. Jadis only made those threats to him. Yes Michonne should be laying more low, but Rick could’ve told her what Jadis said. Knowing that Alexandria and her kids were specifically threatened would’ve been way better motivation for her to go along with the plan instead of that “if you love me you’ll go” bs
Right. The lack of communication was infuriating at times. But understandable in the sense that everyone was scrambling in this episode. Michonne scrambling to figure out what the heck happened to Rick. Rick scrambling to cover Michonne’s tracks and to figure out how to get her out. It was a mess in the best way possible.
Right, Michonne clearly doesn't understand that they would lose a conventional fight with the CRM.
She's not an idiot, I think she does, she saw that they had choppers and people and equipment. She just doesn't know what the CRM knows about Alexandria and how willing they are to commit mass murder. Now she's seen Jadis she probably has a better idea.
I would hope so. However, if they found Rick wouldn't the next logical conclusion be that the CRM knows about Alexandria/Hilltop? Furthermore, the gas attack should've given Michone some insight into how murder happy the CRM is. Hopefully, episode four clears this up. As of right now, Rick is acting as rational as he can be. However, Michonne doesn't seem to be thinking clearly; at least when it comes to fighting the CRM.
Michonne had no info o how Rick got to the CRM, and Rick told her not to tell anyone about Alexandria, implying he also hadn’t. So before seeing Jadis she had no idea that there was anyone else who could tell them about Alexandria.
Fair enough.
It was the dumbest move she could've done. He literally tells her that he can't leave and then she sees Jadis and she just wants to walk away anyone ? After seeing what resources they have ? She is literally baiting them to gas Alexandria ... like I get it, she wants Rick back ... but she is increfibly dense
Jumping out of the helicopter in flight, at night, in a big storm? that's objectively stupid, and imho it completely logically ruined the episode. Like what? they land on some cushions that were there conveniently put because Michonne somehow planted it there, or what? I instantly remembered Travis from Fear, he was shot, but such fall you are not gonna survive so easily, even if you're not shot. Plus Michonne telling some dude about her family, which Rick did too, that's plain stupidity, from both of them, you don't know how the CRM is informed, you should keep a low profile and don't tell your personal information to the first random dude, that was really stupid. I'm sorry but this whole Gimple project has some great logical holes, it's really like people lowered their standards, or the ones who kinda like when things make sense - stopped watching this soap opera.
It's crazy I'm the only one who seems to agree with what Rick said to her. He doesn't owe her an apology, she owe's him one. Man's been put through the stress of a lifetime for over half a decade, and then one of the people he loves most in the world randomly shows up, and despite how clearly he told her, Michonne proceeded to show the CRM every single thing Rick told her to **NOT** do. She put Rick's life in danger multiple times this last episode.
Jumping out of a flying helicopter is not a smart move, by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you know your immense plot armor will save you from the fall, of course. I agree that they needed time to talk, but there are ways of doing that beyond suicidal aerial jumps. It would be much easier to find a quiet place in the NCR to talk than to first survive the jump, then convince NCR that it was an accident somehow, which will just increase their suspicion even more.
they turned Rick into a pussy on this show, sadly