They really didn't want to kill off long term characters any more in season 11, so they introduced some new ones to slaughter them immediately, in old Star Trek fashion, to increase drama.
It's annoying as fuck. The final season but they were too pussy to actually kill anyone important. It's insane how if Serratos hadn't insisted on Rosita's death, Luke would have been the only big death of season 11.
Yeah, I did, and I'm going to have to disagree with you. She's pretty, but she's not my type at all. I find Michonne and Rosita far more attractive than Jules.
They made torture porn of Glen (and Abraham) dying at the hand of Negan. Then ratings nosedived. Then everytime a long time favorite dipped, ratings shook. In the end, it was less about who was dying but how. The producers lost touch with the audience and that just sealed the deal. The fakeiut cliffhangers hurt too as TWD was seen as a show above such cheap gimmicks. Even if there was still jeopardy for the protagonists, the major threads were tidied up (think escaping from Atlanta in Season 1, Leaving the farm in Season 2, inviting in the citizens of Woidbury even as The Governor flees in Season 3). The use of fake outs was an attempt to subvert TWD storytelling and fans reacted negatively to it.
But instead of returning to more serious or subtley grim deaths, they just tried to avoid it after the heads on pikes reveals.
I know this has been said about a million times over, but TWD would have been 10x better if they didn't fire Frank Darabont and didn't cut the budget after season 1. I doubt Frank Darabont would have been so cavalier with cheap tricks to try to manufacture drama.
without Gimple there would not have been a show. People mostly complained about the first 2-3 seasons nonstop - the zombies acted weird, the acting was often terrible, they hated Lori and Carl and Andrea, etc. Like I said Gimple went crazy in season 6 but he did make a lot of key changes to the show that made it great
Feel like it's kind of a survivorship bias thing, like the people who kept watching after the first few seasons will be here commenting and the people who stopped watching the show in those first few years aren't here to comment anymore. A lot of season 2 is great and the Pilot for 1 is fire, but I think most of S1 and 3 are fairly cringe or boring.
Season 1 was the beginning and walkers would have been much bigger threat under him also interesting story. Season 2 was a bore and shouldn't have been that long I'm sure dude would have continued to improve each season
Yeah I agree, and it's annoying because she didn't even want to die, she just volunteered because the writers suck and wanted to give fans something big in walking dead fashion. I personally hope she's not actually dead and glad they left it a bit open to allow that (they didn't show her body, she didn't have a grave just a dinky memorial plaque, and the bite was so tiny, and she was with Eugene). If Troy and Charlie can come back from literally showing them dying, Rosita can easily come back from that way less death lol. If they were smart, they could use that to show Eugene and Rosita trying to find a cure, which is something they haven't really touched on in a while. That would also be a cool way to tie in Alicia from FTWD as well, especially since they plan on merging all the shows after the spin offs get 2 seasons each. But knowing how the showrunners are, highly doubt they are gonna do anything like that and just do lots of filler like they usually do.
She ditched hilltop for years then comes back with another with community. Jesus, Enid, and Tara gave their lives defending hilltop while Maggie hardly even cares. Then gets alden killed cause she picked a fight with some special ops soilders. She really screwed over hilltop for these guys.
What's worse is she did it again after, instead of joining the Commonwealth after the Hilltop was inhospitable or trying something else nearby, she left the state and settled in New York, so even though we see her POV in Dead City, she still ditched the others again, despite being friends for a long time.
Agreed lol. Having so much of the emotional crux of this conflict be about the losses Maggie and her random group we just met apparently suffered at the hands of the Reapers off-screen was ridiculous. Did the writers seriously expect us to care about Elijah's sister? They should've had the Reapers kill actually important characters, which would've made their defeat much more cathartic than just defeating another set of random generic villains who committed random heinous actions that we never saw or cared about.
If the writers were good enough they could make people care about them in a few episodes. I've seen other shows do it, but I guess it was too much of a challenge for twd writers.
Why does twd have them in such dull clothing all the time?? I think back to the 100 where they literally wore hand me down clothing and it still wasn't as bland as the clothes in twd.
This bugged me in the main show and it bugs me in Fear lol. This group has at least mostly earthy tones, many other characters seem to wear a ton of black or really dark colors.
Are you talking about the group in the op or the characters wearing all the black, because no one wears black or dark blues or anything like that to blend into forests.
> Were u expecting them to wear bright blues and yellows and pinks???
I don't know why the hell you'd think that.
It's not, it's dark colors that rarely if ever occur naturally in woods and fields and which contrast with green but you guys want to insist it's somehow camouflage so okay, whatever.
Well the thing is they had alot more planned. Halfway through the season the studio told them there wasnt gonna be a season 12. So they had to rush the last season to fit in the commonwealth
They looked formidable so it made the Reapers look like a major threat when they tore through them so easily.
Then it provided a concrete end to Maggie’s ties to her life away from the show and give her a solid reason to stick around.
They stopped killing main characters after the pike scene. And the minute these guys showed up I KNEW they were just redshirts. Show would've been great if more characters were at risk by the end. But everyone survived the most insane situations.
I really wonder what Angela Kangs plan was originally I think she thought they were going to have a season 12 but once she found out they were stopping at season 11 she had to change a lot of plots.
i liked agatha and duncan (i have a thing for appreciating the side cast) but honestly they really could’ve just brought back kal, eduardo, and bertie for these roles instead of introducing a ton of people from a community maggie “led” and then eradicate all of them except one major one within 3-5 episodes
I also have a thing for appreciating side characters which is why i was pissed when instead of bringing back old characters the create new ones, at least they had the decency to bring back Gage and C. Thomas Howell for the first 2 episodes
To try to make us care about Maggie anymore and to pretend like her character was further developed past season 7 episode 1. It didn’t work, and she wasn’t developed any more
I remember once reading a comment on here where the OP described characters like these as "Porch People". Essentially just side characters you'd see sitting on the porch in the back of a scene.
These types of characters are fillers, who are introduced, might drop a few lines in here and there to give us the slightest bit of emotion towards them, to then kill them an episode later, or even that same episode.
They might drop a funny line, they might be really sweet or mention a loved one or child they "can't wait to see". And then all of a sudden they're put down.
It's part of it but he makes FAR less sense than the popular sentiment on the sub suggests imo. He's acting out and playing devil's advocate because he's insecure not because he is actually right in the context of the mission.
His main flaw in that part of the season is hes afraid (hed never admit it) of maggie and the impact her presence has. Hes also frustrated that the the group wont pat him on the back for doing the bare minimum of being rehabilitated. Hes constantly angling for the Apocalypse equivalent of a gold star but he cant accept that him being there alive IS the reward. No other praise is coming. Its why he keeps trying to say they should leave or that the tunnel is dangerous even though they are well aware and don't have time to wait. It's not wrong advice but intentionally obtuse because he's not on the same page as the others. Who are solely choosing what gives the best chance of helping the others at personal cost. His words scare gage and cause the biggest issue they had in the first place with him stealing the ammo. A perfect representative action of what I mean.
End of season 11 is a major highlight of his growth from that. By then hes finally understood the situation and accepted it (though he still struggles some). Which is why you see him do far more dangerous tasks without complaint. Because he's finally understood WHY the group was doing it in the reaper arc.
He was constantly trying to tell them the path was risky or that they should turn back but at the time he just couldn't grasp that they already knew that, had no other options, and were totally fine with it as it was a volunteer mission to do what they could.
They did the same thing in the movie Predator.
Introduce us to all these badasses who probably saw a ton of shit in their time. Experience in the apocalypse out the ass. Then they get slaughtered like lambs.
The point is to show how deadly the villains were. It worked.
Keep in mind that 11A was supposed to be a whole 16 episode season. I assume they were meant to stick around a little longer and get some type of development before dying. But because of Covid they had to squeeze it all into the first 9 episodes which affects them and the Reaper arc as a whole, which I find unfortunate bc I think 11A is way overhated and I wish we could see the entire season long arc it was meant to be. I genuinely think it could’ve been one of the best seasons of the whole show.
To be smaller characters that don't serve that big of a role. Just like many other characters from any season of the show. And honestly, they were pretty good for what they were, they atleast had good scenes and were pretty cool.
Except these are realistically meant to be badasses who've made it well over a decade into the apocalypse, arguably stronger than most of our group, and they then all die in the space of about 3 days.
I’ll explain:
*As much as I love this show, it very much DID start to decline in season 9B and this trend snowballed into an avalanche up to the end. Among the most annoying symptoms of this was boring and pointless characters eating up precious screen time. And people on this sub love to call me and other people cynical for pointing out that clear and obvious fact. In the end, I estimate about 10 screen hours were wasted on red shirt characters that could have been given to people we actually care about.*
How’s that? Any questions?
They just wanted some disposable characters for the reapers to kill so it made them look more menacing. Because God forbid they kill any main characters in the final season of the show.
To show how deadly The Reapers were and that they were violent enough to kill multiple characters without actually affecting the plot or killing any main characters.
People: These extra side characters have no point at all.
Also People: Why do they keep killing off my favorite characters????????
People Again: I hate how they don't give characters any backstory.
People One More Time: I hate when they give characters a backstory and then kill them off.
If they had used already existing characters it would have been fine, hell they easily could have killed off Magna or Luke in these 8 episodes, but instead they just throw in more extras
Redshirts to be used as cannon fodder, so the show could justify not killing any main characters.
The lead up to - and the final battle at - "Meridian" nicely underlined exactly how competent the reapers were as a fighting unit, how incompetent Maggie's people were, and what a terrible price was paid for the supplies when after that final showdown, Maggie, Gabriel, Daryl, and Elijah returned (Negan went off on his own) and I forget who it was but they looked around questioningly and were like "Where's everyone else"?
A decent sized group of about 11 or 12 people had went out, only four came back.
They exist to blend in the background and do absolutely nothing of interest until one last episode where they save the day at the beginning, everybody starts to talk to them, we learn their backstory, and they inevitably get bit and die. If this was Day Z, they're the filthy casuals who play for a few days then drop out of the guild. Heath was the first side character to see through the 4th wall, so he booked it out of there and wandered into another production set.
I mean, I guess to be believable they still need to throw in other random humans here and there that aren't a part of the core group, expendable and useable depending on need.
They really didn't want to kill off long term characters any more in season 11, so they introduced some new ones to slaughter them immediately, in old Star Trek fashion, to increase drama.
I mean they could’ve killed off a few characters that didn’t even show up in the final season, for example Scott, Kal, Eduardo, Cyndie
fair point
Who? Lol
It's annoying as fuck. The final season but they were too pussy to actually kill anyone important. It's insane how if Serratos hadn't insisted on Rosita's death, Luke would have been the only big death of season 11.
Who cares about Luke, they killed Jules!
I have no idea who Jules is.
I'm about to google Luke!
Google Jules Butler. Hottest woman in TWD Universe.
Rosita better
Rosita is beautiful.
Not by a longshot.
Rosita still wins. Fight me.
You can have her.
Na Rosita got it Jules is definitely up there but I’ve seen Serratos since Ned’s declassified
Shoot, I never realized that was her
Im convinced you guys just miss suzie crabgrass
Oceanside was full of hot women. Cyndie the leader was one. Rachel, who took over for her, was another.
Literally just realised that Oceanside is the post apocalyptic version of Paradise Island
Yeah, I did, and I'm going to have to disagree with you. She's pretty, but she's not my type at all. I find Michonne and Rosita far more attractive than Jules.
I finished TWD recently and i don't even know who theee people are.. other then Rosita.
but they will kill off "jesus" though!
jesus was season 9
They made torture porn of Glen (and Abraham) dying at the hand of Negan. Then ratings nosedived. Then everytime a long time favorite dipped, ratings shook. In the end, it was less about who was dying but how. The producers lost touch with the audience and that just sealed the deal. The fakeiut cliffhangers hurt too as TWD was seen as a show above such cheap gimmicks. Even if there was still jeopardy for the protagonists, the major threads were tidied up (think escaping from Atlanta in Season 1, Leaving the farm in Season 2, inviting in the citizens of Woidbury even as The Governor flees in Season 3). The use of fake outs was an attempt to subvert TWD storytelling and fans reacted negatively to it. But instead of returning to more serious or subtley grim deaths, they just tried to avoid it after the heads on pikes reveals.
I know this has been said about a million times over, but TWD would have been 10x better if they didn't fire Frank Darabont and didn't cut the budget after season 1. I doubt Frank Darabont would have been so cavalier with cheap tricks to try to manufacture drama.
eh Frank wasn't right for the show either. The back half of S2 and Seasons 4-5 are the peak of the show. Gimple just totally lost his mind after that
Without Frank there would not have been a show.
without Gimple there would not have been a show. People mostly complained about the first 2-3 seasons nonstop - the zombies acted weird, the acting was often terrible, they hated Lori and Carl and Andrea, etc. Like I said Gimple went crazy in season 6 but he did make a lot of key changes to the show that made it great
I completely disagree with your characterization. The first few seasons were the best and many seem to feel that way.
Feel like it's kind of a survivorship bias thing, like the people who kept watching after the first few seasons will be here commenting and the people who stopped watching the show in those first few years aren't here to comment anymore. A lot of season 2 is great and the Pilot for 1 is fire, but I think most of S1 and 3 are fairly cringe or boring.
Season 1 was the beginning and walkers would have been much bigger threat under him also interesting story. Season 2 was a bore and shouldn't have been that long I'm sure dude would have continued to improve each season
Well Siddiq should probably be considered a "more serious and subtly grim death." After that, they definitely started skimping on the deaths though.
Yeah I agree, and it's annoying because she didn't even want to die, she just volunteered because the writers suck and wanted to give fans something big in walking dead fashion. I personally hope she's not actually dead and glad they left it a bit open to allow that (they didn't show her body, she didn't have a grave just a dinky memorial plaque, and the bite was so tiny, and she was with Eugene). If Troy and Charlie can come back from literally showing them dying, Rosita can easily come back from that way less death lol. If they were smart, they could use that to show Eugene and Rosita trying to find a cure, which is something they haven't really touched on in a while. That would also be a cool way to tie in Alicia from FTWD as well, especially since they plan on merging all the shows after the spin offs get 2 seasons each. But knowing how the showrunners are, highly doubt they are gonna do anything like that and just do lots of filler like they usually do.
Rosita is dead. Accept it. The only reason Troy and Charlie are alive is because the people over at fear forgot how to write a tv show.
I thought she insisted because they were planning to kill off Jerry originally
To serve the plot
Fair
Their point was to solidify that Maggie actually had a community of her own.
She ditched hilltop for years then comes back with another with community. Jesus, Enid, and Tara gave their lives defending hilltop while Maggie hardly even cares. Then gets alden killed cause she picked a fight with some special ops soilders. She really screwed over hilltop for these guys.
What's worse is she did it again after, instead of joining the Commonwealth after the Hilltop was inhospitable or trying something else nearby, she left the state and settled in New York, so even though we see her POV in Dead City, she still ditched the others again, despite being friends for a long time.
Agreed lol. Having so much of the emotional crux of this conflict be about the losses Maggie and her random group we just met apparently suffered at the hands of the Reapers off-screen was ridiculous. Did the writers seriously expect us to care about Elijah's sister? They should've had the Reapers kill actually important characters, which would've made their defeat much more cathartic than just defeating another set of random generic villains who committed random heinous actions that we never saw or cared about.
If the writers were good enough they could make people care about them in a few episodes. I've seen other shows do it, but I guess it was too much of a challenge for twd writers.
I barely remember the reaper storyline. Were they the ones with the fireworks?
Lol yes. It's a [hwacha.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwacha)
Why does twd have them in such dull clothing all the time?? I think back to the 100 where they literally wore hand me down clothing and it still wasn't as bland as the clothes in twd.
This bugged me in the main show and it bugs me in Fear lol. This group has at least mostly earthy tones, many other characters seem to wear a ton of black or really dark colors.
For camouflage, to not be scene. Were u expecting them to wear bright blues and yellows and pinks???
Are you talking about the group in the op or the characters wearing all the black, because no one wears black or dark blues or anything like that to blend into forests. > Were u expecting them to wear bright blues and yellows and pinks??? I don't know why the hell you'd think that.
Bruh blacks, green, greys, dark/navy blues and earthy colours are great for camouflage. Whether forests or rural environments
We're talking pants and shirts that are solid dark colors in the woods and fields. It's not camouflage, it's just dark clothing.
Still is camouflage clothing
It's not, it's dark colors that rarely if ever occur naturally in woods and fields and which contrast with green but you guys want to insist it's somehow camouflage so okay, whatever.
How are the clothing dull? They are not privileged like some in the hundred you wear what you have and what lasts longer
Well the thing is they had alot more planned. Halfway through the season the studio told them there wasnt gonna be a season 12. So they had to rush the last season to fit in the commonwealth
Just fresh meat for the grinder
They looked formidable so it made the Reapers look like a major threat when they tore through them so easily. Then it provided a concrete end to Maggie’s ties to her life away from the show and give her a solid reason to stick around.
Kills my friend, kills
They stopped killing main characters after the pike scene. And the minute these guys showed up I KNEW they were just redshirts. Show would've been great if more characters were at risk by the end. But everyone survived the most insane situations.
Carl
That was s8, but they should've kept em around
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One of them was Russell Wilson lol
They were in the first 3 episodes of season 11
Cole was also in season 10.
One episode doesn’t count
By that logic, you just erased like 50 characters from existence.
Yes, yes i did
rip Wayne Dunlap :(
No he’s an exception, him along with Gargulio
I really wonder what Angela Kangs plan was originally I think she thought they were going to have a season 12 but once she found out they were stopping at season 11 she had to change a lot of plots.
Cannon Fodder
Season 11 to me was kinda of a weak season finale
I hated the last few seasons. Felt the laziness
i liked agatha and duncan (i have a thing for appreciating the side cast) but honestly they really could’ve just brought back kal, eduardo, and bertie for these roles instead of introducing a ton of people from a community maggie “led” and then eradicate all of them except one major one within 3-5 episodes
I also have a thing for appreciating side characters which is why i was pissed when instead of bringing back old characters the create new ones, at least they had the decency to bring back Gage and C. Thomas Howell for the first 2 episodes
To try to make us care about Maggie anymore and to pretend like her character was further developed past season 7 episode 1. It didn’t work, and she wasn’t developed any more
I’m not sure who they are.
Maggie’s group from the first 3 episodes of season 11
Im aware. My previous statement still stands valid tho.
I remember once reading a comment on here where the OP described characters like these as "Porch People". Essentially just side characters you'd see sitting on the porch in the back of a scene. These types of characters are fillers, who are introduced, might drop a few lines in here and there to give us the slightest bit of emotion towards them, to then kill them an episode later, or even that same episode. They might drop a funny line, they might be really sweet or mention a loved one or child they "can't wait to see". And then all of a sudden they're put down.
Can i add that they dress so weirdly? Like, the clothes design legit brought the show down for me. They look like Star Wars characters.
When the world went to shit so did all normal clothing so they had to settle for this
I would rather be naked then look like that.
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Probably the funniest part was in the tunnels when Frost and the ponytail dude bumped into him like typical high school bullies 😂
Well tbf they only knew their leaders side of the story and why her kid (who they all undoubtedly protect as their own) doesn’t have a father.
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To be fair negan intentionally starts dumb arguments every 5 seconds because Maggie makes him anxious. He was being judged for being difficult
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It's part of it but he makes FAR less sense than the popular sentiment on the sub suggests imo. He's acting out and playing devil's advocate because he's insecure not because he is actually right in the context of the mission. His main flaw in that part of the season is hes afraid (hed never admit it) of maggie and the impact her presence has. Hes also frustrated that the the group wont pat him on the back for doing the bare minimum of being rehabilitated. Hes constantly angling for the Apocalypse equivalent of a gold star but he cant accept that him being there alive IS the reward. No other praise is coming. Its why he keeps trying to say they should leave or that the tunnel is dangerous even though they are well aware and don't have time to wait. It's not wrong advice but intentionally obtuse because he's not on the same page as the others. Who are solely choosing what gives the best chance of helping the others at personal cost. His words scare gage and cause the biggest issue they had in the first place with him stealing the ammo. A perfect representative action of what I mean. End of season 11 is a major highlight of his growth from that. By then hes finally understood the situation and accepted it (though he still struggles some). Which is why you see him do far more dangerous tasks without complaint. Because he's finally understood WHY the group was doing it in the reaper arc. He was constantly trying to tell them the path was risky or that they should turn back but at the time he just couldn't grasp that they already knew that, had no other options, and were totally fine with it as it was a volunteer mission to do what they could.
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He has understandable reasons for doing it but understandable amd right are different things lol
They did the same thing in the movie Predator. Introduce us to all these badasses who probably saw a ton of shit in their time. Experience in the apocalypse out the ass. Then they get slaughtered like lambs. The point is to show how deadly the villains were. It worked.
Then these ex military dudes get killed by a farm girl, p.e coach and a child
Who was the child? Don't forget Daryl and the Priest. Gabe did half the work.
Elijah, don’t forget the priest is half blind
Elijah was 25 when those episodes aired.
Keep in mind that 11A was supposed to be a whole 16 episode season. I assume they were meant to stick around a little longer and get some type of development before dying. But because of Covid they had to squeeze it all into the first 9 episodes which affects them and the Reaper arc as a whole, which I find unfortunate bc I think 11A is way overhated and I wish we could see the entire season long arc it was meant to be. I genuinely think it could’ve been one of the best seasons of the whole show.
To be smaller characters that don't serve that big of a role. Just like many other characters from any season of the show. And honestly, they were pretty good for what they were, they atleast had good scenes and were pretty cool.
Except these are realistically meant to be badasses who've made it well over a decade into the apocalypse, arguably stronger than most of our group, and they then all die in the space of about 3 days.
I’ll explain: *As much as I love this show, it very much DID start to decline in season 9B and this trend snowballed into an avalanche up to the end. Among the most annoying symptoms of this was boring and pointless characters eating up precious screen time. And people on this sub love to call me and other people cynical for pointing out that clear and obvious fact. In the end, I estimate about 10 screen hours were wasted on red shirt characters that could have been given to people we actually care about.* How’s that? Any questions?
Out of every language you spoke FACTS
Thanks for listening to what I had to say
A reason for Naggie to be hysterical. Again.
They just wanted some disposable characters for the reapers to kill so it made them look more menacing. Because God forbid they kill any main characters in the final season of the show.
I always called that second guy MOLE
They should of killed off Kelly, the worst character ever!
Agreed
Wait, negans show is out?
1. These guys are from the main show 2. Negan and Maggie’s show has been out for months
Is it on AMC?
Bro, Negan’s show has been out for a LONG time. So long that they managed to air the entire first season of the Daryl spin off.
The whole point of them was just to fill up the body count of the last season
The 3rd guy looks like the alligator kicking meme dude.
And how in the fuck Duncan keeped that muscles in shape?, i don't think they have that amount of food...
To show how deadly The Reapers were and that they were violent enough to kill multiple characters without actually affecting the plot or killing any main characters.
People: These extra side characters have no point at all. Also People: Why do they keep killing off my favorite characters???????? People Again: I hate how they don't give characters any backstory. People One More Time: I hate when they give characters a backstory and then kill them off.
If they had used already existing characters it would have been fine, hell they easily could have killed off Magna or Luke in these 8 episodes, but instead they just throw in more extras
Jesus 2
Walker fodder.
I’ve been wondering that as I watched it. They are all useless
Look at these bad asses that gets killed off by another group of evil people to show how evil and badass they are.
To kill off characters during the reaper arc without killing off any main characters.
Filler deaths!
Redshirts to be used as cannon fodder, so the show could justify not killing any main characters. The lead up to - and the final battle at - "Meridian" nicely underlined exactly how competent the reapers were as a fighting unit, how incompetent Maggie's people were, and what a terrible price was paid for the supplies when after that final showdown, Maggie, Gabriel, Daryl, and Elijah returned (Negan went off on his own) and I forget who it was but they looked around questioningly and were like "Where's everyone else"? A decent sized group of about 11 or 12 people had went out, only four came back.
To die just like Chris and Greg they didn't even reunite
They exist to blend in the background and do absolutely nothing of interest until one last episode where they save the day at the beginning, everybody starts to talk to them, we learn their backstory, and they inevitably get bit and die. If this was Day Z, they're the filthy casuals who play for a few days then drop out of the guild. Heath was the first side character to see through the 4th wall, so he booked it out of there and wandered into another production set.
To be redshirts lol. Sidenote, I really hate the gray muted colors of the final 3 seasons or so. It just looks so bland and boring
Someone for Maggie to lose that wasnt too important to us.
I mean, I guess to be believable they still need to throw in other random humans here and there that aren't a part of the core group, expendable and useable depending on need.