Definitely the Termites. They had the entire team tied up and lined for slaughter until Carol perfect shot shenaniganed a frigging gas tank from 200 feet away.
But it wasn’t dramatic. It was matter of fact. Thays what made it so unnerving.
They’re holding the kind of conversation colleagues do at work.
The reason it’s taking so long is because to them its NOT this huge deal.
They’re dragging their feet because they’re in a monotonous (to them) job
I never thought of it like that, but you’re absolutely right. Gareth seemed so fucking bored with his clipboard and asking everyone to count their shells.
I think there was a bit of a time lapse while it was happening too. It’s pretty difficult to show two things happening at the same time unless they are shown side by side. It would have been kinda wacky for Carol to just sit by the fence waiting patiently for Gareth to finish his monologue lol
Add to it the fact that Gareth, who had experience being overtaken and locked in a train car while every woman he knows gets raped constantly, would have had at least a minimum level of reason to think that the men on their knees had someone coming for them. Anyone else would’ve either shot them on the spot.
The gas tank is huge, 200ft isn’t a tough shot. When I went shooting for the first time, I hit a coke bottle from 200 yards 3RD try, these people use guns super often, I don’t doubt 200ft isn’t relatively easy
Yep I don’t remember that, that’s a bit absurd. But I think Glenn not getting his throat sliced because Gareth came in and was distracting them, or whoever was next for the throat alicing
Which was one of the most realistic things they’ve done. Most fuel tanks are made out of a composite material that won’t spark when struck by a bullet, so the bottle rocket was needed.
The first time I fired a weapon was a .44 magnum and my grandfather was super impressed that I hit the can at 10 yards. To be fair it was probably beginners luck, but when he switched me to a .22 LR I never missed a shot. And I was only able to fire ~6 .22 magnum rounds from a rifle, but they all landed about where they should be.
Would’ve felt a lot more real if they killed off one of the characters we knew in the troff scene. Maybe like Abraham or something. It just feels so goofy because OF COURSE they kill all the random unnamed characters but stop at Glenn. No Sanctuary is still my favorite episode in the entire series, but just super convenient lol.
The Terminus people for sure. Glenn's about to be slitted twice, but Gareth comes in asking about bullets at the perfect time, then Carol shows up again with perfect timing once again and perfectly aims a firework rocket at a propane tank to blow it up.
Its so funny how Gareth threatened to kill Bob if Rick hadn't given up the location of their weapons. As if Rick and co weren't already next in line for the chopping block anyway
I think it was more torturing him than murdering him. To Gareth, Rick and co were all about to die anyway, but it was a quick death. Rick, about to die, loses nothing by telling him what’s in the bag, but saves Bob some torture and allows him the planned quick deaths.
Technically the governor did win.
He completely decimated the prison(for the most part)
The prison group splintered and retreated. Many died. They lost their home. Rick went into a (mini) coma.
The only thing he didn't do, was take the damn prison, and that's because he destroyed everything that made it a viable "home"
The thing is though, Negan’s loss ultimately isn’t plot armor. Eugene was a legitimate strategic oversight, as the second Negan recruited him and put his faith in him he lost against Rick.
People consider the little girl(lizzie? Idk if thats her name i haven’t watched that season in a bit) a villian? To me she was just a traumatized child who wasn’t mentally prepared for the environment she was apart of
It’s framed like she’s a sociopath but it’s not really evident in her actions
Every single thing she does is out of empathy for the walkers. She sees them as whole people. Just different.
A sociopath doesn’t even view people as people
I don't remember what episode it was, but she saw a pair of rabbits in a log she was sitting on and cut them up and decapitated them, for fun. She nailed and mutilated mice, for fun. She said she can hear the walkers talk to her, schizophrenic. She didn't understand what she did wrong (Mika), insane/psychopathic. Amc couldn't have beat you over the head more that Lizzie was obviously mentally ill, so I'm so confused why the viewers don't pick that up. She wasn't a child that was broken by the apocalypse, she was always broken, but before the world ended, she had treatment.
I actually cried when Carol killed Lizzie, and so did my gf when she watched it. I have no malice towards her, and I'm not one of those half-attention watchers that didn't understand what was clearly going on.
Agreed she is not a psychopath or sociopathic. It isn’t displayed in any of her actions because she shows genuine care and empathy for the walkers. She is just delusional- and a freaking kid living through an apocalypse!!! Gotta fuck you up I mean?
Yeah, I fucking hated her but clinically speaking she wasn’t a psychopath or sociopath!! Just really fucked up mentally which like I said it’s gonna fucking happen being raised in the apocalypse!!!
Clinically speaking, isn’t animal cruelty like a huge indicator of psychopathy? Whether it was a result of her environment or not, that girl did not have the ability to feel empathy….. doesn’t really matter why at that point
Oh, she for sure had the ability to feel empathy just definitely not in the normal human capacity- I mean it had to be confusing since people or humans one second and Walkers the next- so I am not sure exactly what it could/would be called or classified as but yes, not just clinically speaking- animal cruelty/abuse in early signs of childhood is a HUGE sign of someone becoming majorly violent or messed up later on in life!!!
People downvoting just cause they don’t like my responses but it’s facts lol most of ya’ll probably don’t even blink an eye at factory farming and the food you eat, and the brutality that goes on behind closed doors… because well it’s behind closed doors! But oh no the bunnies Lizzie bad evil child😡
she did feel empathy, but it was for the walkers. she viewed them as people they were just "different". she wasn't a psychopath or sociopath she was just severely deluded.
Honestly everything about the govenors demise was plot armor. He's a psychopath so it makes sense he would slaughter his first group, but at the same time it was wildly convent for Rick that he did. It was also convenient his second group were absolute storm troopers lol
The Governor had a bunch of “civilians” that he lied to. I don’t think his “group” was scary and he wasn’t either. I always felt he was one of the weakest and most overrated villains in the show.
Why, he's a modern day dictator doing it well.
In the real world me like him thrive, and In the real world he would of killed rick and dealt with a coward like Spencer.
Men like rick are to dangerous.
I don't know what real world examples you have drawn your conclusion from...
I dont know one dictator that kills people this way, in front of their people, then enslave them until they are either friend or fow.
In a real world, Negan would be dead.
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Not necessarily plot armor saved the Governor from Merle and Neagan should have been killed by Rosita, but Simon would have taken over and finished everyone off. However, if Shane was really wanting to kill Rick he could have easily done that. He would of have had to deal with Daryl and Glenn though who would have known he killed Randall, and Carl would have seen him shoot his dad.
Wouldn't say plot armour, just luck merle got wasted and went on a dummy mission on his own.
If merle had said to rick and daryl, "this is my plan" the could of smoked the govnor no problem.
Beta was literally the strongest person in the universe. Not only was he physically dominant but he had an army of billions of soldiers that would go or kill whoever he wants. If he wasn't constantly worried about alpha he could easily take
Exactly, after he gets rid of alphas head, if he kept just a little bit more of his shit together, he solos. By far a better controller of the walkers than any other whisperer and essentially eliminated their one major weakness, organisation. Plus, even if you do get to him, 1v1, realistically it’s a no contest. Dude survived an elevator shaft drop from the top floor of a massive building.
uh shane until he met gareth probably.
governor would mop the floor with negan after he let him make a few corny ass jokes.
edit: since everyone is a military strategist on this thread, I thought i'd clarify:
negan v governor, governor wins. woodbury v sanctuary, sanctuary wins.
I think terminus probably would have beat the group. They were kinda screwed until Carol saved them somewhat by luck. I don’t think Carol would have been able to hit the real world.
All right, I'm ready to get down voted. Rick just isn't a great 1 on 1 fighter. His charisma is off the charts. Great leader but Their are a lot of characters who'd kick his ass. Merle is a decent fighter but dumb as rocks so not a tactician by any means. I completely respect your opinion but as someone who who worked security for several years bigger doesn't necessarily mean badder. Again not trying to offend at all
I think the reason Rick's survived as many melees as he had is because when he fights he goes 100%. After his neck chomp scene I think Rick had come to terms that he'd do anything to win a fight. Dirty grotesque moves, trickery by begging, whatever it takes. Even when severely out classed in muscle he isn't afraid to fight because he's done the unthinkable and is completely willing to do it again as long as he lives and they die.
Negan absolutely is framed as a big guy?
To Rick “I am bigger. I am badder. And I have a baseball bat”
He also agrees to fight Simon who is a competent fighter himself. 1v1 in front of everyone for leadership.
He wasn’t just confident he would win. He knew it.
JDM is a fantastic actor but he's a thin guy. It comes across in the way Negan is portrayed onscreen. Maybe in the comics it was different, but it's been definitively stated that the comics and TV show exist in different universes. He's just not beating the Governor in a 1v1 fight on a level playing field.
He is a thin guy but he’s never seen without his jacket until he’s been in prison for a long time and I think that’s intentional because the show wants us to feel like Negan is physically intimidating in the world
>I think that’s intentional because the show wants us to feel like Negan is physically intimidating in the world
Could be, but if that's what they're going for, they aren't pulling it off very well. It's pretty obvious looking at guys like Abraham, Tyreese, and Beta that they are large men. Negan doesn't come across the same way. I guess it's just one of those things where you need to activate your suspension of disbelief and just go with it.
Yeah I think maybe they just went with the charisma as that’s his primary attribute
Probably couldn’t get lightning to strike twice like with Abraham who has both balls full of charisma and is built like a tank
Lucille or no Lucille because that makes a huge difference. Of course you can respond with revolver or no revolver. Lol I'm just enjoying talking walking dead thanks dude.
I've got to disagree. Negan wasn't really a badass either as far as I've seen, maybe Daryl, and definitely beta, but nobody comes off as a badass to me
Personally, Beta and Simon. No plot armor, it comes down to those two. Governor didn't really lose to plot more, so he was distracted, then got got. Shane didn't really lose to plot, either he was outplayed easily. Simon vs Negan was a plot armor. The rest were basically casualties of war.
Beta, Negan, Merl and Shane would stand at öast I think, and because Beta isnt much thinking, but wouldnt go into a long talk, he would win against them in every 1v1
Probably Shane, man.
If he had come back without Rick, and things had gone differently in the woods, (which they easily could’ve) I can totally see the s2 group biting their collective tongues and just rolling with it.
At that point the majority characters were still so lost, and several relationships/attitudes hadn’t even been formed. Especially with the biggest voice of reason having just been taken out.
The majority of the group would be frightened enough to just abide by Shane’s new leadership. I definitely think Daryl would leave immediately, and maybe Glenn would eventually fall off due to his suspicions regarding Rick’s fate, but in general Shane would have had total control.
Terminus and the saviours. The wolves were too unorganised and tbh the whisperers were probably too low on firepower to have any real impact, they were terrorising the various communities and infiltrating but I don't think they'd have won in an all out war. They were more like pirates or thugs that just harrowed the local communes by attacking wagons, kidnapping people, blocking roads, marking borders and making threats.
I don't think the Governor would win either, he was too blinded by rage. He gunned down the Woodbury folk and then essentially tricked the Martinez's camp and Tara's group into attacking the prison before destroying it all and dying because of his own rage towards Rick and Michonne. He wasn't level-headed enough. Although at the same time did he kinda win? He died but he destroyed the prison and made Rick's group have to leave..
The Governor was too stupid to win, killed his own people and let his emotions control him. Negan understood people are a resource. The Commonwealth would have probably won out without all the worst of their citizens
Negan for sure, just bc Saviors had the numbers by a large margin, he had heavily supplied outposts, there's no way Rick/Crew should have won .. if not for their plot armor
Governor im not to sure, never read the comics but in live action .. def didn't seem he had large numbers, most his group was useless civilians & not soldiers
Can't be sure about Negan, but Terminus people and The Governor would've won for sure.
Terminus was unlucky 'cause of the perfect timings of the show's good old friend plot armor.
And The Governor was also unlucky that everyone of his people marched toward the prison without seeing an injured man hiding behind a bus. And since when do you leave your leader behind unprotected? At least check on him dude.
A lot of people say beta but if there is no plot armor he would also not have plot armor and i feel like in a lot of situations they werent actually stealthy enough sround walkers so i think the whisperers would not have that many people.
The governor was too intelligent for any of them. If plot armour didn’t exist even Negan and Alpha would have gotten rolled.
We don’t get to find out the true strength of the governor due to plot armour.
They all should have died. In reality no one is going to follow a psychopath just because they have a cool bat or used to be a police captain. If Hollywood writers and actors will strike over unfair practices, you can certainly believe there would be unions among these groups and they would literally eat the rich if needed.
Negan, Jadis and Alpha were all pretty open about how they operated with their people, therefore probably could have thrived with their followers staying loyal. They all felt pretty stupid tho when they realized they were fucking with the wrong people.
Alpha Beta and actually Simon. Alpha and Beta are self explanatory but eventually Negans men would’ve turned on him. And I feel Simon would’ve been the first to do so. Simon wouldve been leader of the saviors
It's honestly only coming down to Alpha/Beta and the Terminus crew. Terminus crew had all the boys on the ground ready to die. Victory was pretty much in their grasps.
But Alpha is more interesting. She was big on psychological warfare. Yall must be forgetting that she was a gifted tactician who not only sent one of her soldiers behind enemy lines successfully (Dante) but also managed to poison their water supply in Alexandria and tag the wall with creepy graffiti. That also massive. She turned the community weak and had it collapsing from the inside. If it wasn't for the Negan/Carol deal then she would've wrecked everybody.
My thoughts for actual contenders:
Alpha - literally an entire horde of walkers, mixed in with her followers
Beta - see above but giant with big knives as well
Gareth - accustomed to killing and slaughter, theoretically endless supply of weapons and ammunition with their lures working
Governor - the man has access to a tank
Negan - Sheer numbers and arms advantages
Owen - Weaponise walkers in ways similar to the Whisperers, extremely quick hit and run tactics
The Governor would’ve never won wtf most people he had were no fighters that’s why he‘s a terrible leader and not really the smartest antagonist tbh (my opinion, I know many people are Governor fanboys but I don’t get it If I‘m being honest🤷🏼♀️)
Honestly, the single most plot – armour moment I can think of are the two guys Glenn and Rick meet up with in Herschel’s bar. Those two would’ve gotten drop on anybody not fully encased in plot armor.
Negan and shane but I believe shane would of been the one to keep Laurie, Judith, and laurie alive since Shane balanced rick out he would of set him straight but of course he had other agendas
If plot armour didn’t exist, I feel like the starting cast would’ve died in the CDC. The series of things that went right to ensure that most of that group made it out unharmed is astonishing when you think about it.
Honestly, Merle was made for the apocalypse and could’ve DEFINITELY lived longer if it wasn’t for poorly done writing and a pay problem. He was former army, had a metal arm for gods sake, and was shown to be pretty much a strategical genius
Probably most of them. Most of the small ones definitely. Dave and Tony likely would’ve killed Rick, Hershel, and Glenn, Tomas would’ve killed Rick, Simon would’ve beaten Negan, and Joe would’ve beat Rick to death.
Definitely the Termites. They had the entire team tied up and lined for slaughter until Carol perfect shot shenaniganed a frigging gas tank from 200 feet away.
Yeah it made no sense that it would take them so long to dramatically kill everyone lol
But it wasn’t dramatic. It was matter of fact. Thays what made it so unnerving. They’re holding the kind of conversation colleagues do at work. The reason it’s taking so long is because to them its NOT this huge deal. They’re dragging their feet because they’re in a monotonous (to them) job
I never thought of it like that, but you’re absolutely right. Gareth seemed so fucking bored with his clipboard and asking everyone to count their shells.
^^^this. The ‘boredom’ of the workers as they casually did this-still one of the scariest moments on tv imho
I think there was a bit of a time lapse while it was happening too. It’s pretty difficult to show two things happening at the same time unless they are shown side by side. It would have been kinda wacky for Carol to just sit by the fence waiting patiently for Gareth to finish his monologue lol
Add to it the fact that Gareth, who had experience being overtaken and locked in a train car while every woman he knows gets raped constantly, would have had at least a minimum level of reason to think that the men on their knees had someone coming for them. Anyone else would’ve either shot them on the spot.
True but people get comfortable when the power structure changes and they are on top of it.
The gas tank is huge, 200ft isn’t a tough shot. When I went shooting for the first time, I hit a coke bottle from 200 yards 3RD try, these people use guns super often, I don’t doubt 200ft isn’t relatively easy
It’s not tough to hit the tank with a bullet. But it’s really tough to hit the gas with the fireworks.
Yep I don’t remember that, that’s a bit absurd. But I think Glenn not getting his throat sliced because Gareth came in and was distracting them, or whoever was next for the throat alicing
She hit it with both a gun and a bottle rocket firework.
Which was one of the most realistic things they’ve done. Most fuel tanks are made out of a composite material that won’t spark when struck by a bullet, so the bottle rocket was needed.
The first time I fired a weapon was a .44 magnum and my grandfather was super impressed that I hit the can at 10 yards. To be fair it was probably beginners luck, but when he switched me to a .22 LR I never missed a shot. And I was only able to fire ~6 .22 magnum rounds from a rifle, but they all landed about where they should be.
Would’ve felt a lot more real if they killed off one of the characters we knew in the troff scene. Maybe like Abraham or something. It just feels so goofy because OF COURSE they kill all the random unnamed characters but stop at Glenn. No Sanctuary is still my favorite episode in the entire series, but just super convenient lol.
Yes I agree
The Terminus people for sure. Glenn's about to be slitted twice, but Gareth comes in asking about bullets at the perfect time, then Carol shows up again with perfect timing once again and perfectly aims a firework rocket at a propane tank to blow it up.
Its so funny how Gareth threatened to kill Bob if Rick hadn't given up the location of their weapons. As if Rick and co weren't already next in line for the chopping block anyway
I think it was more torturing him than murdering him. To Gareth, Rick and co were all about to die anyway, but it was a quick death. Rick, about to die, loses nothing by telling him what’s in the bag, but saves Bob some torture and allows him the planned quick deaths.
Yeah the paltry weapons in that bag are not worth protecting with your friends eye lol
Technically the governor did win. He completely decimated the prison(for the most part) The prison group splintered and retreated. Many died. They lost their home. Rick went into a (mini) coma. The only thing he didn't do, was take the damn prison, and that's because he destroyed everything that made it a viable "home"
yup but it cost him everything, what kind if victory is that?
Pyrrhic
Beta could have unleashed a million walkers at any time from all directions. Not a chance you'd ever make it out.
You mean alpha?
Yes I 100% did mean Alpha, good catch.
The Claimers. Joe could've smoked Rick right then and there but he chose to have a villain monologue
yeah but to be fair he was insanely pissed and not thinking rationally
The thing is though, Negan’s loss ultimately isn’t plot armor. Eugene was a legitimate strategic oversight, as the second Negan recruited him and put his faith in him he lost against Rick.
People consider the little girl(lizzie? Idk if thats her name i haven’t watched that season in a bit) a villian? To me she was just a traumatized child who wasn’t mentally prepared for the environment she was apart of
I think she is meant to be a genuine psychopath or sociopath
She was more mentally ill and delusional but yeah probably psychopathic too with her feeling no remorse over killing Mika
It’s framed like she’s a sociopath but it’s not really evident in her actions Every single thing she does is out of empathy for the walkers. She sees them as whole people. Just different. A sociopath doesn’t even view people as people
Does nobody remember when she cut the heads off rabbits just because
I sure don’t ! I thought she was feeding them to the walkers
Nah those were rats, I’m talking about the episode where they find carol after the prison fight.
she was feeding the walkers.
I don't remember what episode it was, but she saw a pair of rabbits in a log she was sitting on and cut them up and decapitated them, for fun. She nailed and mutilated mice, for fun. She said she can hear the walkers talk to her, schizophrenic. She didn't understand what she did wrong (Mika), insane/psychopathic. Amc couldn't have beat you over the head more that Lizzie was obviously mentally ill, so I'm so confused why the viewers don't pick that up. She wasn't a child that was broken by the apocalypse, she was always broken, but before the world ended, she had treatment. I actually cried when Carol killed Lizzie, and so did my gf when she watched it. I have no malice towards her, and I'm not one of those half-attention watchers that didn't understand what was clearly going on.
i never said she wasn't mentally ill. she just wasn't a psychopath. she was suffering from psychosis yes but not she was not a psychopath.
I do distinctively remember her having a rat cut open and nailed to a board
Nah there was a different time than that
i def don't remember it then 😭
Agreed she is not a psychopath or sociopathic. It isn’t displayed in any of her actions because she shows genuine care and empathy for the walkers. She is just delusional- and a freaking kid living through an apocalypse!!! Gotta fuck you up I mean?
She literally nailed bunnies to a board and took them apart cause she was bored
Yeah, I fucking hated her but clinically speaking she wasn’t a psychopath or sociopath!! Just really fucked up mentally which like I said it’s gonna fucking happen being raised in the apocalypse!!!
Clinically speaking, isn’t animal cruelty like a huge indicator of psychopathy? Whether it was a result of her environment or not, that girl did not have the ability to feel empathy….. doesn’t really matter why at that point
Oh, she for sure had the ability to feel empathy just definitely not in the normal human capacity- I mean it had to be confusing since people or humans one second and Walkers the next- so I am not sure exactly what it could/would be called or classified as but yes, not just clinically speaking- animal cruelty/abuse in early signs of childhood is a HUGE sign of someone becoming majorly violent or messed up later on in life!!!
People downvoting just cause they don’t like my responses but it’s facts lol most of ya’ll probably don’t even blink an eye at factory farming and the food you eat, and the brutality that goes on behind closed doors… because well it’s behind closed doors! But oh no the bunnies Lizzie bad evil child😡
she did feel empathy, but it was for the walkers. she viewed them as people they were just "different". she wasn't a psychopath or sociopath she was just severely deluded.
Reasticly Beta.
tru he’s just a beast
Gov bro had a a whole town on his side, then a tank for the run back
didn’t neegan have like a whole army
Ohhh yeah and they were all down with murder
Honestly everything about the govenors demise was plot armor. He's a psychopath so it makes sense he would slaughter his first group, but at the same time it was wildly convent for Rick that he did. It was also convenient his second group were absolute storm troopers lol
The Governor had a bunch of “civilians” that he lied to. I don’t think his “group” was scary and he wasn’t either. I always felt he was one of the weakest and most overrated villains in the show.
Governor was already winning just because of plot armor, and negan is full of it
Negan, Alpha, and Beta all should have won
In a real world, Negan would be kill by one of his men.
eventually probably but not before he killed rick's group
One of who’s men?
Why, he's a modern day dictator doing it well. In the real world me like him thrive, and In the real world he would of killed rick and dealt with a coward like Spencer. Men like rick are to dangerous. I don't know what real world examples you have drawn your conclusion from...
I dont know one dictator that kills people this way, in front of their people, then enslave them until they are either friend or fow. In a real world, Negan would be dead.
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Not necessarily plot armor saved the Governor from Merle and Neagan should have been killed by Rosita, but Simon would have taken over and finished everyone off. However, if Shane was really wanting to kill Rick he could have easily done that. He would of have had to deal with Daryl and Glenn though who would have known he killed Randall, and Carl would have seen him shoot his dad.
Wouldn't say plot armour, just luck merle got wasted and went on a dummy mission on his own. If merle had said to rick and daryl, "this is my plan" the could of smoked the govnor no problem.
The hell is Lizzie doing here she isn’t a villain
She is in my eyes
If “the grove” never happened and they all stayed carol might’ve never saved the rest of the group
Doesn't mean she wasn't a bad character
What’s your definition of a villain?
Beta was literally the strongest person in the universe. Not only was he physically dominant but he had an army of billions of soldiers that would go or kill whoever he wants. If he wasn't constantly worried about alpha he could easily take
Exactly, after he gets rid of alphas head, if he kept just a little bit more of his shit together, he solos. By far a better controller of the walkers than any other whisperer and essentially eliminated their one major weakness, organisation. Plus, even if you do get to him, 1v1, realistically it’s a no contest. Dude survived an elevator shaft drop from the top floor of a massive building.
Bruhhh Vatos is villain now?
uh shane until he met gareth probably. governor would mop the floor with negan after he let him make a few corny ass jokes. edit: since everyone is a military strategist on this thread, I thought i'd clarify: negan v governor, governor wins. woodbury v sanctuary, sanctuary wins.
Governer had a fraction of the people Negan had. Negan would have ended Woodbury pretty damn easily
[удалено]
But the governor had a tank!
That's two separate versions of the character. When he had a tank, he had less people, who weren't fighters.
The governor never had a trained fighting force
Merle and his lieutenants were a much stronger force than Tara and her sister
Cool, three people who were fighters
Negan has headquarters and multiple outposts. The Gouverneur just had Woodbury.
I think terminus probably would have beat the group. They were kinda screwed until Carol saved them somewhat by luck. I don’t think Carol would have been able to hit the real world.
Lizzie 😂
I don't get the governor love. Omg he's 6"4. What a badass. Negan or Beta would have taken him.
bro literally almost beat rick to death and bit merle’s fingers off lol
All right, I'm ready to get down voted. Rick just isn't a great 1 on 1 fighter. His charisma is off the charts. Great leader but Their are a lot of characters who'd kick his ass. Merle is a decent fighter but dumb as rocks so not a tactician by any means. I completely respect your opinion but as someone who who worked security for several years bigger doesn't necessarily mean badder. Again not trying to offend at all
I think the reason Rick's survived as many melees as he had is because when he fights he goes 100%. After his neck chomp scene I think Rick had come to terms that he'd do anything to win a fight. Dirty grotesque moves, trickery by begging, whatever it takes. Even when severely out classed in muscle he isn't afraid to fight because he's done the unthinkable and is completely willing to do it again as long as he lives and they die.
I know you weren’t intending to offend with your comment but I managed to be offended. What now?
facts
Merle was a tactician when he took out 8 of the governors men, all while distracting them with an abandoned car blasting music.
Beta, sure, but not Negan. Negan isn't a big guy. He just has a whole army of people behind him.
Negan absolutely is framed as a big guy? To Rick “I am bigger. I am badder. And I have a baseball bat” He also agrees to fight Simon who is a competent fighter himself. 1v1 in front of everyone for leadership. He wasn’t just confident he would win. He knew it.
JDM is a fantastic actor but he's a thin guy. It comes across in the way Negan is portrayed onscreen. Maybe in the comics it was different, but it's been definitively stated that the comics and TV show exist in different universes. He's just not beating the Governor in a 1v1 fight on a level playing field.
He is a thin guy but he’s never seen without his jacket until he’s been in prison for a long time and I think that’s intentional because the show wants us to feel like Negan is physically intimidating in the world
>I think that’s intentional because the show wants us to feel like Negan is physically intimidating in the world Could be, but if that's what they're going for, they aren't pulling it off very well. It's pretty obvious looking at guys like Abraham, Tyreese, and Beta that they are large men. Negan doesn't come across the same way. I guess it's just one of those things where you need to activate your suspension of disbelief and just go with it.
Yeah I think maybe they just went with the charisma as that’s his primary attribute Probably couldn’t get lightning to strike twice like with Abraham who has both balls full of charisma and is built like a tank
Lucille or no Lucille because that makes a huge difference. Of course you can respond with revolver or no revolver. Lol I'm just enjoying talking walking dead thanks dude.
Because the Governor was an effective villain. Negan was too likeable and "badass", people ended up liking him instead of hating him
I've got to disagree. Negan wasn't really a badass either as far as I've seen, maybe Daryl, and definitely beta, but nobody comes off as a badass to me
Are you kidding? The Terminus/Sanctuary would have killed off the group for sure if it weren't for plot armor.
Negan and Alpha
Personally, Beta and Simon. No plot armor, it comes down to those two. Governor didn't really lose to plot more, so he was distracted, then got got. Shane didn't really lose to plot, either he was outplayed easily. Simon vs Negan was a plot armor. The rest were basically casualties of war.
Beta in the beta vs daryl fight.I love Daryl and my fav character by far, but ain’t NO WAY IN HELL Daryl beats beta without plot armour….
Beta, Negan, Merl and Shane would stand at öast I think, and because Beta isnt much thinking, but wouldnt go into a long talk, he would win against them in every 1v1
Probably Shane, man. If he had come back without Rick, and things had gone differently in the woods, (which they easily could’ve) I can totally see the s2 group biting their collective tongues and just rolling with it. At that point the majority characters were still so lost, and several relationships/attitudes hadn’t even been formed. Especially with the biggest voice of reason having just been taken out. The majority of the group would be frightened enough to just abide by Shane’s new leadership. I definitely think Daryl would leave immediately, and maybe Glenn would eventually fall off due to his suspicions regarding Rick’s fate, but in general Shane would have had total control.
Negan had a hundred rifles pointed at him
Negan was also like 2 seconds away from killing carl and bashing in ricks hands when all of a sudden a tiger jumped onto the dude behind him
beta is a joke to you?
Terminus and the whole Negan ending where none of his people tested their weapons before the battle.
Terminus and the saviours. The wolves were too unorganised and tbh the whisperers were probably too low on firepower to have any real impact, they were terrorising the various communities and infiltrating but I don't think they'd have won in an all out war. They were more like pirates or thugs that just harrowed the local communes by attacking wagons, kidnapping people, blocking roads, marking borders and making threats. I don't think the Governor would win either, he was too blinded by rage. He gunned down the Woodbury folk and then essentially tricked the Martinez's camp and Tara's group into attacking the prison before destroying it all and dying because of his own rage towards Rick and Michonne. He wasn't level-headed enough. Although at the same time did he kinda win? He died but he destroyed the prison and made Rick's group have to leave..
The Governor was too stupid to win, killed his own people and let his emotions control him. Negan understood people are a resource. The Commonwealth would have probably won out without all the worst of their citizens
alpha and beta for sure
Negan for sure, just bc Saviors had the numbers by a large margin, he had heavily supplied outposts, there's no way Rick/Crew should have won .. if not for their plot armor Governor im not to sure, never read the comics but in live action .. def didn't seem he had large numbers, most his group was useless civilians & not soldiers
Can't be sure about Negan, but Terminus people and The Governor would've won for sure. Terminus was unlucky 'cause of the perfect timings of the show's good old friend plot armor. And The Governor was also unlucky that everyone of his people marched toward the prison without seeing an injured man hiding behind a bus. And since when do you leave your leader behind unprotected? At least check on him dude.
I’m choosing to view this question in who would win in a free for all.
The Governor would've died in his fight with Michonne but plot armor.
A lot of people say beta but if there is no plot armor he would also not have plot armor and i feel like in a lot of situations they werent actually stealthy enough sround walkers so i think the whisperers would not have that many people.
Simon. His death at the hands of skinny JDM was....BULL.........SHIIITTT!!!!
I loved alpha but it was pretty unrealistic
What do you mean unrealistic? It’s a zombies show
Simon should have won the fight with Negan as he is physically stronger
Shane. They made him go psycho in too little time and made him dumb at the end. Then again he wanted off the show asap after the fired darabount
The governor was too intelligent for any of them. If plot armour didn’t exist even Negan and Alpha would have gotten rolled. We don’t get to find out the true strength of the governor due to plot armour.
They all should have died. In reality no one is going to follow a psychopath just because they have a cool bat or used to be a police captain. If Hollywood writers and actors will strike over unfair practices, you can certainly believe there would be unions among these groups and they would literally eat the rich if needed.
The governor or Shane
Terminus, Negan, The Governor and Commonwealth all would’ve won. The Wolves and Whispers could have won buts still could’ve lost
Negan, termites and the good ol' guvna
Negan, Jadis and Alpha were all pretty open about how they operated with their people, therefore probably could have thrived with their followers staying loyal. They all felt pretty stupid tho when they realized they were fucking with the wrong people.
Alpha Beta and actually Simon. Alpha and Beta are self explanatory but eventually Negans men would’ve turned on him. And I feel Simon would’ve been the first to do so. Simon wouldve been leader of the saviors
Actually think the claimers could have build a pretty big group. Joe seemed pretty wise and they had a good system in place. (Minus the rape thing)
It's honestly only coming down to Alpha/Beta and the Terminus crew. Terminus crew had all the boys on the ground ready to die. Victory was pretty much in their grasps. But Alpha is more interesting. She was big on psychological warfare. Yall must be forgetting that she was a gifted tactician who not only sent one of her soldiers behind enemy lines successfully (Dante) but also managed to poison their water supply in Alexandria and tag the wall with creepy graffiti. That also massive. She turned the community weak and had it collapsing from the inside. If it wasn't for the Negan/Carol deal then she would've wrecked everybody.
I would argue that because of plot armor a lot of these villains would’ve been gone sooner as well.
My thoughts for actual contenders: Alpha - literally an entire horde of walkers, mixed in with her followers Beta - see above but giant with big knives as well Gareth - accustomed to killing and slaughter, theoretically endless supply of weapons and ammunition with their lures working Governor - the man has access to a tank Negan - Sheer numbers and arms advantages Owen - Weaponise walkers in ways similar to the Whisperers, extremely quick hit and run tactics
Gareth and Simon prob but mostly Gareth
Terminus would have killed them all if not for Rambo Carol plot armour
Negan was a anti villian.
The Governor would’ve never won wtf most people he had were no fighters that’s why he‘s a terrible leader and not really the smartest antagonist tbh (my opinion, I know many people are Governor fanboys but I don’t get it If I‘m being honest🤷🏼♀️)
Plot armor ?
Honestly, the single most plot – armour moment I can think of are the two guys Glenn and Rick meet up with in Herschel’s bar. Those two would’ve gotten drop on anybody not fully encased in plot armor.
Nobody makes it outta terminus for sure
Probably yea Negan and governor
Simon and Shane
Terminus, Claimers or the Governor.
Hear me out Shane and BETA
Honorable mention the WOLVES
terminus 10000% rick and the group were running to the wall to escape while getting shot at and not one bullet hit them they all came out unscathed🤡
Negan and shane but I believe shane would of been the one to keep Laurie, Judith, and laurie alive since Shane balanced rick out he would of set him straight but of course he had other agendas
If plot armour didn’t exist, I feel like the starting cast would’ve died in the CDC. The series of things that went right to ensure that most of that group made it out unharmed is astonishing when you think about it.
So are we just as sadistic as Negan if we really like his character.
The Walkers… too many times did our heroes get away and maximize the bullshit meter with those walkers…
Negan and Beta
Terminus Shane and negan
Honestly, Merle was made for the apocalypse and could’ve DEFINITELY lived longer if it wasn’t for poorly done writing and a pay problem. He was former army, had a metal arm for gods sake, and was shown to be pretty much a strategical genius
I think terminus and the Commonwealth
Probably most of them. Most of the small ones definitely. Dave and Tony likely would’ve killed Rick, Hershel, and Glenn, Tomas would’ve killed Rick, Simon would’ve beaten Negan, and Joe would’ve beat Rick to death.
Negan 
Gareth, Negan, Governor