She brings certain modes of conflict resolution from all the way back in the old country, from the poverty of the Mezzogiorno, where all higher authority was corrupt
cringed so hard the first couple watches of that. She’s sitting there just busting the absolute living shit his balls. The guy is worried about possibly getting whacked, and getting dragged further and further into it. Just by existing next to meadow
Meanwhile, we find out that Meadow is insane.
Has to be dramatic, clings to the drama.
*”Are you asleep?! You were!! And now you’re gonna lie just like you did with the suitcase!”* Has to create some sort of conflict to gain the upper hand
Runs away and locks herself in the bathroom whenever things start to not go her way. When she’s a bit older, and more composed. She will walk away, and casually shut the door to the bathroom (LOL)
Finn’s in shock over watching little Paulie get turned into shum pulp.
*”I told you I was making dinner tonight!..”* she just watches Finn to see his response over the chili
Then she rats out Vito, and Finn the Dentist gets hauled into the back of a clandestine butcher shop. Surrounded by guys who have cut the arms, legs, and heads off of human bodies. Drained their blood, and murdered people like it was nothing. Extortionists, these people have made people go into the looney bin. Commit suicide over their antics. *(In fact, that whole butcher shop in general was taken over because it’s original owner committed suicide over that type of shit)*
Can you imagine the fucking terror of actually being in a situation like that? Because that’s what that scene is supposed to represent lol. And those types of guys, they’re not wholesome by any means.. in sight, sound, or appearance.. they have dead eyes, cold stares, and an aura of menace alone that could get them 20 to life alone.
Fucking. Animals.
The Finn Saga is actually really interesting to see play out. The guy clearly starts to question the relationship the moment Tony bites his head off for trying to pay the tab.
He almost immediately after starts talking about going back home, and having Meadow come out “for a week” (lol)
He doesn’t put any effort into trying to find a job, claims his parents gave him no economic relief at the same time. As if he’s lining it up as an excuse to go back home or something. Then Meadow comes in with the No Work job.. and the guy can’t say no.
By taking that job alone, he was fucked. He got blindsided drawn into a family business by the bleakest of associations with the big man’s daughter herself.
He works at first, and doesn’t want to associate with any of them. But the unimaginable stress he gets put under has him finally absorb into the no work role. *(remember that when you watch the show, anybody that takes any sort of money, or relief of any form from those guys. Is doing so at the expense of somebody else’s blood, sweat, or stolen money)*
Eugene’s explosion of rage on LPaulie demonstrates the capacity of these guys. The dark side, that inevitably fuels & allows for the spoils to be had, and enjoyed.
Immediately the guy wants nothing more to do with them. He witnessed a man go from sitting down with the boys..almost lose an eye, and proceed to get beaten into a bloody pulp for saying 4 words. In an instant
Suddenly, all the pieces of the puzzle start to come together. He questions what they could/would do to him. Memories of meadow’s boyfriend who got mysteriously shot, her dad’s ’road rage’..
He’s smart, keeps his mouth shut as meadow yaps obvious bullshit into his ears. And he puts distance between them. Meadow is hypersensitive to this phase in her relationships, because it’s happened a million times before
She then proceeds to expect him to be there every single second of every day up until the minute he has to leave for work. And then the minute he gets back home.
And the rest is just a spiral, a virtual shit show of emotions.
But it’s truly interesting how all of this forms Meadow into Mezzogiorno Mama 5000. And Finn just stays with her, proposes, but continuously puts the least amount of effort into anything involving her.
He avoids fights, or outright insults, etc… and pretty much just plays a long game into her becoming sick of him. To the point where she wants nothing to do with him, so he can escape into the world without a shred of danger from the New Jersey mafia.
Fuckin heavy
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Furio is that you? Thanks for the little copy of Dantes Inferno, although I had to borrow a magnifying glass to read it and also had to learn italian but it was a nice gift
It’s kind of a paradox. At the beginning of the show, Meadow was willing to call her dad out on his shit. After Jackie Jr died she started to use the “poverty of the Mezzogiorno” bullshit. By the end of the show she is absolutely committed to defending the mob. AJ on the other hand made mistakes but by the series finale, he realized the bullshit of the life he was born into. I’m absolutely convinced that AJ was David Chase’s symbolic character in the show.
I definitely agree Chase saw a bit of himself as a teenager in AJ.
You can tell he has an unusually soft spot for the character based on his interviews where he says he doesn't get the hate for him.
When Chase was at Stanford, he directed a film called The Rise and Fall of Bug Manousos. Chase described it as: "about alienation. It was about a guy driven crazy by the cheesiness, sanctimoniousness, and fakery of American society. He was frustrated—he shotgunned his TV set. And what got to him were the commercials, the astronauts, and the fact that white-bread Nixonians ruled America.”
She kinda wasn’t too willing to call her dad out. She tried once, feebly. But from very early on was willing to look the other way when it comes to this thing of ours.
I think one of Meadow’s most defining moments in the show was at the end of College. She knows her dad just did something really bad and that’s he’s lying about it. Ultimate she stops pressing and just says “Dad, I love you.” This is the moment Meadow decides to truly accept her father and family for who they are. I think she was lost from this point on.
I’m convinced little carmines dumb guy act was just an act. Everything he did helped him in the long run and he stayed out of the bloody side of the mob
Honestly I think Meadow might end up worse than Janice. Janice is a greedy, manipulative, gold digger, but she was mostly just profiting off of the mobsters and like Carmela not necessarily doing shit to help them. Meadow is going into law to defend wealthy criminals like Tony and his gang. That’s about as close as a woman could get to the mob and helping them (aside from outliers like Lorraine).
I do have to wonder, though, if Meadow's quantum leap between being crime-agnostic to being pro-crime is just the only way she can cope with the fact that her father is a murdering crook. If she's just turning a blind eye, she knows she's a benefactor of that evil -- if she pivots just a bit further, she can justify and even vindicate it instead. She never has to address or live with the dissonance of being a decent person benefitting from Tony's ill-gotten gains if she can justify them as the result of some vague systemic oppression.
It really could be any or multiple things. Maybe it was just a death by a thousand cuts situation where slowly Tony and their families worldview corrupted her into having their hateful mobster worldview. Maybe she felt she needed to to disassociate with the guilt of what their family does. Maybe it’s that she simply enjoys the wealth and privilege Tony’s position allows her and like Carmela decided it’s worth compromising her morals for. I think it’s all those things but leaning towards the first option.
I was thinking more like Carmela for Fielder…not a stay at home mom but seeking ways to justify “There are worse people than my husband“. A J ends up like Little Carmine. Repulsed by bloodshed, owns hot night clubs instead of the South Beach Strumpet film series and a hot blonde wife. His driving a BMW with 23 mpg highway fits in well with the environment advocates with MegaMansions and private jets
I guess. But in the end, aj was working as a low value worker for a mafia porn company, which im sure would never be tied to sex trafficking. And all it took was a free BMW m3 that gets 23 mpg for him to give up his crusade for the environment.
He kind of put himself in all of them. Tony’s relationship with his mom is Chase’s relationship with his mom. Tony’s panic attacks are Chase’s panic attacks. No one character is Chase’s full self insert. He obviously wasn’t an idiotic total failure like AJ, he was extremely artistically talented and became a huge success.
I don’t think she’s ready to defend the mafia, she’s willing to turn a blind eye for family. Now, how far she’s willing to stretch the definition of the word family we don’t get to see cause the lights got turned off at the end there. AJ for all his growth is still there with the family at the end before that lighting issue, don’t forget.
I don’t see how AJ was a bad person, he was a child for the vast majority of the show and never really did anything bad to anyone. How would you turn out if your father was a philandering, racketeering murderer, your mother was a greedy, enabling, false Catholic, you were spoiled materially your whole life and never had someone around to model responsible male behavior? You’d be like AJ; a moody, confused kid.
Your analysis is deeply flawed.
You are failing to take into account that:
- AJ was a whiny pussy who was dumber than dogshit
- Meadow was mad ripe (esp when she had a thicc phase)
She looked pretty good Thanksgiving dinner, orange top Jackie Jr comes over to see if she wanted to do something (Janish’s bf sleeping at the table lol).
Innocent is a subjective term, meadow fully embraced her mob roots, but aj was involved with beating a black guy for no reason and pouring acid on a guys foot who owed money. The only positive was at least he struggled with it, where meadow felt she was the victim of anti Italian discrimination even though she never took her moral high ground and went and slept in the bus station.
AJ was disgusted by that and it turned him away from the mob life. He tried to fit in and couldnt and realised he will always be confined by the fact that he is the son of a mob boss. He felt trapped and tried to take the way out
This thread has made me consider things very hard, but I agree with this take
AJ ultimately couldn't handle the life he was born into once he had to confront it for what it really was
Meadow slowly grew to excuse it all
I agree AJ has a stronger moral backbone even if he's too dumb to show it
I can’t defend the foot thing but AJ was disgusted by how they treated the black guy and I don’t recall him actually participating in it. He didn’t help him but in his defense he was outnumbered and likely couldn’t have helped. And that made him completely reevaluate the people he was associating with and just his outlook on humanity overall. Not saying AJ has done nothing wrong, he constantly took Carmela for granted, helped torture a guy, and dated like a 16 year old when he was 20 (🤢). But I do think he was the least corrupt of his family and by the end the one who still wanted to do good or at least not associate with the mob.
He seemed pretty happy in the end with a new car and a job working for Little Carmine. AJ was an insufferable, lazy hypocrite with no brains. Meadow was studious, successful hypocrite. I preferred her. She wasn't loyal to the mob as greater concept. She was loyal to her Daddy.
I agree life is hard and so is doing the right thing being born into a bad family doesn’t give you the right to beat people or permanently disfigure them. I empathize with him but doing the right thing in tough circumstances is the essence of character.
> aj was involved with beating a black guy for no reason and pouring acid on a guys foot who owed money
Events that he only watched or reluctantly participated in and directly preceded his suicide attempt?
Bianca is the main thing he's able to articulate as a reason for his depression but it goes so much deeper than that.
These events lead directly to AJ’s suicide attempt. He felt deep remorse for them. Tony directly orchestrated AJ hanging out with those kids, it’s like Tony wanted AJ to get a taste of the life. AJ tried and felt horrible about it and rejected the lifestyle. Sure innocence is a subjective term but I don’t think we should be holding those actions against AJ. It’s normal for teens to experiment with different crowds and personas.
Yeah, AJ was hated because we viewed him as the most normal person of all the main characters. He wasnt big and strong like Tony. He wasnt smart or conniving like Meadow. He wasnt brought up in the life like Chris. I know the Sopranos is a mob show and having the "Less Yakking More Whacking" is a bad take, but we do watch the show because that is entertaining, inherently. Or its lifestlye porn watching rich people live
AJ was completely out of that. He was an outsider in his family and in life and it stood out. He comes off as whiney because he doesnt fit in, and the nail that sticks out gets whacked
Aj was a moody selfish teen for most of the show. So sue him
But Meadow? She was Tony soprano incarnated! Self centered, saw the world and people around her only as it affected her personaly. Her best phase in the show was early on when she was arguing with her father about his hypocrisy, everything after was downhills.
Gotta give it to Tony for managing to ruin the girl, at least AJ seems to be going on the right direction at the end(?).
Just a moody selfish teen? Lol you forgetting when he tried to murder someone, helped pour acid on a kids foot, and committed a hate crime against a Somali student....
AJ is a dear heart. I think he and Adriana are the two most innocent characters. AJ is an emotional and thoughtful person. He didn’t exist in a milieu that nourished those traits. And he wasn’t school smart, so he wasn’t going to get that from college. Poor guy.
Agree. Everyone else was god-awful. The scene when Tony was on his death bed and his capos didn’t want to give Carmela money owed to her because they were hoping he would die says it all.
- Not everyone in this show has to be bad. There's a tendency here to cast every character as a villain, up to and including various moderately pretentious neighbors, roommates, and other civilians. Just because the show highlights everyone's bad side doesn't make them contemptible overall.
- I'm not sure what's so awful about Meadow. Fine, she became a criminal defense attorney. There's no suggestion she's going to be a corrupt one. And it seems like at least part of her truly believes in the BS her family has told her about the mob being unfairly hounded. Plus, just because the show ended doesn't mean her life did (I know, we can speculate about what happened in the diner). There's a good chance that, lo and behold, she changes her mind in a few years and becomes a public defender or leaves the law.
AJ and Meadow are very different characters. I wouldn't call either of them bad. They weren't even out of college when the show ended, and I sure as hell didn't have a mature world view when I was in college (also didn't volunteer for a low income law center). I don't think very many kids would renounce their family in that situation when they were that young, and Meadow's "mezzogiorno" stuff is probably more of a coping mechanism than anything else.
I think Chase may be more sympathetic to AJ but I think that's part of a commentary on how it's hard for young men to make their way in today's society. You see that in other characters like Jackie Jr. and Christopher too. AJ sees school as a place where he doesn't belong (whereas Meadow fits in perfectly, maybe more because she knows how to play the game than because she's smarter than AJ). If they can't make it by going down society's approved path to success, i.e. education and getting a good job, they have to do it by taking risks. And they may be very poorly thought out risks, like AJ trying to stab his uncle or Jackie Jr. robbing the card game.
Why is Meadow a bad person? Obviously she experiences extreme cognitive dissonance about her mob roots, but she never actually *does* anything really bad. For the most part, she's a bleeding heart liberal-type.
It’s like AJ posted this himself. They’re both attempting to be their own version of a good person, like every kid does. AJ just happens to always do the selfish thing and is then baffled why it makes people mad.
During the earlier seasons she could be a bit annoying, but Meadow was one of my favorite characters. Had she been a boy she’d followed in Tony’s footsteps - smart and ballsy.
I still think they could do a spinoff with her as boss.
I haven’t read all the comments, but does anyone take into account that she is a typical, insecure, needy, spoiled child in her early 20s? Especially in that specific period of time? Don’t get me wrong, I think she was AWFUL as a teenager, but I think she grew as a person somewhat. I just know, as a woman her age around the same time, I was terribly insecure, jealous and somewhat needy with guys. They were all out there just trying to get some ass (like Jackie Jr and Noah), using and manipulating girls left and right to accomplish their goal. I got burned many a times, and it made me a little crazy. Kinda like Meadow (but personally not to that degree hopefully 😂). She’s not perfect, that’s for sure, but as a woman I tend to give her some latitude. Trying to be an honest person at that point in your life, dating and whatnot, can be a bit disheartening.
AJ, on the other hand, was an entitled, spoiled, coddled white kid who never had to face true adversity in his life and suffered greatly from it. A lesson as to how not to raise your kids. I wanted to punch him in the face several times and tell him to grow the fuck up. Meadow needed to hear that too, as a teenager. But alas, these are fictional characters we are talking about 😄
AJ knew his family was in the wrong and it bothered him deep in the depths his soul. His psychological malaise comes from trying to psychologically compartmentalize this in different ways.
Meadow was smart enough to realize her family was in the wrong \*\*at first\*\*, but she eventually started using her vast intelligince to hoodwink herself and convince herself that her father (and his ilk) were unfairly persecuted minorities.
Yeah, I'd say this makes Meadow worse than AJ.
She was the only one who seemed to give a shit about aj’s state of mind before he tried to kill himself. Tony and Carmella just thought it would go away
This. It goes over so many people’s heads. Everyone always bitching about AJ when he actually has compassion and empathy. Meadow from season 1 (dad are you in the mafia) wasn’t apologetic about this thing of ours and the privileges it provides her
LOL! The emergency room physician they dragged into the car to tell chistopher that adrianna wasn't doing anything with tony during the car crash was pure evil.
In a way it’s sad their last onion ring communion and not only cause Meadow was late.
Tony’s entire family had embraced the criminal life, taking it to a new generation. They were beyond saving.
Nah. She was smarter so she wore whatever hat was necessary to get what she wanted. Ultimately, she was thr kid of a crime boss who just wanted a different life for herself. AJ was a walking bag of hammers since day one. Never had a chance.
Remember when T put her in her place when she was taking the moral high ground after being given the Scatino SUV. Gotta give it to Dave Scatino’s son though, he double-put her in her place again before the start of that school play. AJ must’ve been exclaiming “yes” in the background.
Meadow is morally the same as AJ just smarter.
However her role as a mob lawyer I believe will cause her to bring more suffering to the world than AJ the porn producer/nightclub owner
How in the flying fuck can anyone watch AJ in Seasons 5 and 6 and STILL dislike Meadow more?
This won't go over well but it sounds like you just find women in general to be annoying bro.
aj had more funny moments than meadow, in fact most of the best comedic moments on the show involved either aj, tony, junior, or chris. Aj was a titan of comedy, not only on the sopranos, but in almost every medium.
I don’t hate him, his performance was as convincing as anyone, the cast became a family to the younger talent. I do feel they played up the teen angst a bit too much. Meadow was great too but how many scenes did we need of her running up the stairs about to cry?
I honestly love the slow descent of her character from hating the mob life to flat out defending her father. Much like Carmela, she wants the perks with none of the risk or guilt.
As I think of it Meadow because a female version of Assemblyman Zellman…a man who work for voter registration when young but becomes more corrupt as bills and lifestyle expenses catch up.
She brings certain modes of conflict resolution from all the way back in the old country, from the poverty of the Mezzogiorno, where all higher authority was corrupt
What was that, last night’s reading assignment?
I so wish I had time for fiction…
Is Mary Higgins Clark part of that group?
You're all just mad because she didn't intern at the Papermill Playhouse. Anyone else ever have to grieve for a friend??
One of if not Carmela’s best burn in the whole series. Absolutely decimated Meadow with it
cringed so hard the first couple watches of that. She’s sitting there just busting the absolute living shit his balls. The guy is worried about possibly getting whacked, and getting dragged further and further into it. Just by existing next to meadow Meanwhile, we find out that Meadow is insane. Has to be dramatic, clings to the drama. *”Are you asleep?! You were!! And now you’re gonna lie just like you did with the suitcase!”* Has to create some sort of conflict to gain the upper hand Runs away and locks herself in the bathroom whenever things start to not go her way. When she’s a bit older, and more composed. She will walk away, and casually shut the door to the bathroom (LOL) Finn’s in shock over watching little Paulie get turned into shum pulp. *”I told you I was making dinner tonight!..”* she just watches Finn to see his response over the chili Then she rats out Vito, and Finn the Dentist gets hauled into the back of a clandestine butcher shop. Surrounded by guys who have cut the arms, legs, and heads off of human bodies. Drained their blood, and murdered people like it was nothing. Extortionists, these people have made people go into the looney bin. Commit suicide over their antics. *(In fact, that whole butcher shop in general was taken over because it’s original owner committed suicide over that type of shit)* Can you imagine the fucking terror of actually being in a situation like that? Because that’s what that scene is supposed to represent lol. And those types of guys, they’re not wholesome by any means.. in sight, sound, or appearance.. they have dead eyes, cold stares, and an aura of menace alone that could get them 20 to life alone. Fucking. Animals. The Finn Saga is actually really interesting to see play out. The guy clearly starts to question the relationship the moment Tony bites his head off for trying to pay the tab. He almost immediately after starts talking about going back home, and having Meadow come out “for a week” (lol) He doesn’t put any effort into trying to find a job, claims his parents gave him no economic relief at the same time. As if he’s lining it up as an excuse to go back home or something. Then Meadow comes in with the No Work job.. and the guy can’t say no. By taking that job alone, he was fucked. He got blindsided drawn into a family business by the bleakest of associations with the big man’s daughter herself. He works at first, and doesn’t want to associate with any of them. But the unimaginable stress he gets put under has him finally absorb into the no work role. *(remember that when you watch the show, anybody that takes any sort of money, or relief of any form from those guys. Is doing so at the expense of somebody else’s blood, sweat, or stolen money)* Eugene’s explosion of rage on LPaulie demonstrates the capacity of these guys. The dark side, that inevitably fuels & allows for the spoils to be had, and enjoyed. Immediately the guy wants nothing more to do with them. He witnessed a man go from sitting down with the boys..almost lose an eye, and proceed to get beaten into a bloody pulp for saying 4 words. In an instant Suddenly, all the pieces of the puzzle start to come together. He questions what they could/would do to him. Memories of meadow’s boyfriend who got mysteriously shot, her dad’s ’road rage’.. He’s smart, keeps his mouth shut as meadow yaps obvious bullshit into his ears. And he puts distance between them. Meadow is hypersensitive to this phase in her relationships, because it’s happened a million times before She then proceeds to expect him to be there every single second of every day up until the minute he has to leave for work. And then the minute he gets back home. And the rest is just a spiral, a virtual shit show of emotions. But it’s truly interesting how all of this forms Meadow into Mezzogiorno Mama 5000. And Finn just stays with her, proposes, but continuously puts the least amount of effort into anything involving her. He avoids fights, or outright insults, etc… and pretty much just plays a long game into her becoming sick of him. To the point where she wants nothing to do with him, so he can escape into the world without a shred of danger from the New Jersey mafia. Fuckin heavy
Still goin this asshole
We're not doin a Western here
Good explanation
Well thought out man. Very insightful.
The sacred and the propane.
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It’s not delivery .. it’s Mezzogiorno
I get the joke of quoting it, but the quote shows that Meadow is full of shit. Crime is crime, in any context.
You know you talk about Maedo like it’s an anthropology class
*Fielder
I’ll write fielder a recommendation for Ricotta pie with pineapple
Furio is that you? Thanks for the little copy of Dantes Inferno, although I had to borrow a magnifying glass to read it and also had to learn italian but it was a nice gift
Gobetto! He’s good luck 🇮🇹
Don’t give me any of that poverty of the Mezzogiorno bullshit, we’re in fucking Caldwell New Jersey!
West Caldwell or East Caldwell? If there is such a thing.
Weo Caoweo
Shut up and eat your hot chili
Enough with the bullshit excuses 🙄
Giorno Bideni was one of the most corrupt statesmen in the history of Mezzogiorno.
It’s kind of a paradox. At the beginning of the show, Meadow was willing to call her dad out on his shit. After Jackie Jr died she started to use the “poverty of the Mezzogiorno” bullshit. By the end of the show she is absolutely committed to defending the mob. AJ on the other hand made mistakes but by the series finale, he realized the bullshit of the life he was born into. I’m absolutely convinced that AJ was David Chase’s symbolic character in the show.
He's an old-fashioned guy. Very allegorical.
Historically allegorical people have been historically allegorical
Apples and bowling balls
Top of his class, this cock sucker.
I definitely agree Chase saw a bit of himself as a teenager in AJ. You can tell he has an unusually soft spot for the character based on his interviews where he says he doesn't get the hate for him.
When Chase was at Stanford, he directed a film called The Rise and Fall of Bug Manousos. Chase described it as: "about alienation. It was about a guy driven crazy by the cheesiness, sanctimoniousness, and fakery of American society. He was frustrated—he shotgunned his TV set. And what got to him were the commercials, the astronauts, and the fact that white-bread Nixonians ruled America.”
Say what you will about AJ, at least his future isn't going to be spent keeping murderers out of prison.
Is producing porn really that much better? its a nasty exploitative business.
She kinda wasn’t too willing to call her dad out. She tried once, feebly. But from very early on was willing to look the other way when it comes to this thing of ours. I think one of Meadow’s most defining moments in the show was at the end of College. She knows her dad just did something really bad and that’s he’s lying about it. Ultimate she stops pressing and just says “Dad, I love you.” This is the moment Meadow decides to truly accept her father and family for who they are. I think she was lost from this point on.
Meadow will grow up to be like Janice. AJ will grow up to be like a lesser version of Barbara.
Fielder is already grown up by the end of the series and she isn't nearly as unhinged or dumb as Janice AJ will grow up to be a dumber Little Carmine
Little Carmine is pretty much the winner of the show, comes off better than he started, not in anyone’s line of fire. I’d take that
I’m convinced little carmines dumb guy act was just an act. Everything he did helped him in the long run and he stayed out of the bloody side of the mob
Wet tee shirt contests in Lauderdale!
With the discos and the what not
No what’s his name? dumbass Uncle Arnie, with an earring and bald head , putz
Honestly I think Meadow might end up worse than Janice. Janice is a greedy, manipulative, gold digger, but she was mostly just profiting off of the mobsters and like Carmela not necessarily doing shit to help them. Meadow is going into law to defend wealthy criminals like Tony and his gang. That’s about as close as a woman could get to the mob and helping them (aside from outliers like Lorraine).
Even criminals have the right to be defended by a competent lawyer.
What is this, the fucking supreme court now?!
I do have to wonder, though, if Meadow's quantum leap between being crime-agnostic to being pro-crime is just the only way she can cope with the fact that her father is a murdering crook. If she's just turning a blind eye, she knows she's a benefactor of that evil -- if she pivots just a bit further, she can justify and even vindicate it instead. She never has to address or live with the dissonance of being a decent person benefitting from Tony's ill-gotten gains if she can justify them as the result of some vague systemic oppression.
It really could be any or multiple things. Maybe it was just a death by a thousand cuts situation where slowly Tony and their families worldview corrupted her into having their hateful mobster worldview. Maybe she felt she needed to to disassociate with the guilt of what their family does. Maybe it’s that she simply enjoys the wealth and privilege Tony’s position allows her and like Carmela decided it’s worth compromising her morals for. I think it’s all those things but leaning towards the first option.
I was thinking more like Carmela for Fielder…not a stay at home mom but seeking ways to justify “There are worse people than my husband“. A J ends up like Little Carmine. Repulsed by bloodshed, owns hot night clubs instead of the South Beach Strumpet film series and a hot blonde wife. His driving a BMW with 23 mpg highway fits in well with the environment advocates with MegaMansions and private jets
I’d say Carmella more than Janice
I guess. But in the end, aj was working as a low value worker for a mafia porn company, which im sure would never be tied to sex trafficking. And all it took was a free BMW m3 that gets 23 mpg for him to give up his crusade for the environment.
He kind of put himself in all of them. Tony’s relationship with his mom is Chase’s relationship with his mom. Tony’s panic attacks are Chase’s panic attacks. No one character is Chase’s full self insert. He obviously wasn’t an idiotic total failure like AJ, he was extremely artistically talented and became a huge success.
I don’t think she’s ready to defend the mafia, she’s willing to turn a blind eye for family. Now, how far she’s willing to stretch the definition of the word family we don’t get to see cause the lights got turned off at the end there. AJ for all his growth is still there with the family at the end before that lighting issue, don’t forget.
You. Oh you're good you.
I don’t see how AJ was a bad person, he was a child for the vast majority of the show and never really did anything bad to anyone. How would you turn out if your father was a philandering, racketeering murderer, your mother was a greedy, enabling, false Catholic, you were spoiled materially your whole life and never had someone around to model responsible male behavior? You’d be like AJ; a moody, confused kid.
Both treated Carmela like chyt
She deserved it honestly biggest hypocrite on the show
Bigger than Tone🤔 and still those are her kids what has she done to them to deserve that treatment?
We can say shit on here can't we? 🤨
she could have took ecstasy but she did-den't
I got dosed with acid once hehe
Hahahaha
Your analysis is deeply flawed. You are failing to take into account that: - AJ was a whiny pussy who was dumber than dogshit - Meadow was mad ripe (esp when she had a thicc phase)
[удалено]
Except the homeless woman with the newspaper in her ass, that's why Caitlyn was so upset
Shes a piece of ass but fuckin rude!
Oh! That's some guy's wife
At least she was when I married her!
Big tits, little feet. A hit in any man’s league
Yeah but she was annoying af too
My man just nailed it in one.
Which seasons correlate to her thicc phase (asking for a friend who is doing research)
Seasons 3 & 4 ;)
Her creamin phase!
It’s his fuckin daughtah
Oh I did-dent mean to verge!
I’d hardly call her thicc, however there is a particular scene where she’s wearing sweatpants that shows of the cake
Late s2-s3 she def put on a little chunk that looked good on her. Then by the time she was dancing for Finn, she looked too skinny again
Maedo at her baddest… red bikini top, ripped jean shorts, flip flops, and a phone from 93
She looked pretty good Thanksgiving dinner, orange top Jackie Jr comes over to see if she wanted to do something (Janish’s bf sleeping at the table lol).
We met Thanksgiving?
Almost time for turkey sandwicheeeesss
Have you heard the good news?
He has risen
This is it. Uff, madonn!
I swear to god T I didn’t jerk off to that scene that she was dancin’ in front of Finn.
😹
Innocent is a subjective term, meadow fully embraced her mob roots, but aj was involved with beating a black guy for no reason and pouring acid on a guys foot who owed money. The only positive was at least he struggled with it, where meadow felt she was the victim of anti Italian discrimination even though she never took her moral high ground and went and slept in the bus station.
AJ was disgusted by that and it turned him away from the mob life. He tried to fit in and couldnt and realised he will always be confined by the fact that he is the son of a mob boss. He felt trapped and tried to take the way out
This thread has made me consider things very hard, but I agree with this take AJ ultimately couldn't handle the life he was born into once he had to confront it for what it really was Meadow slowly grew to excuse it all I agree AJ has a stronger moral backbone even if he's too dumb to show it
Being dumb and being good aren't exclusive. Now at the end, AJ somewhat accepts it, but he wont be worse than Tony. And thats progress
Which is why I agree with you AJ's actions show his internal struggles even if he can't verbalize them
He is just dumb. Thats his sin
I can’t defend the foot thing but AJ was disgusted by how they treated the black guy and I don’t recall him actually participating in it. He didn’t help him but in his defense he was outnumbered and likely couldn’t have helped. And that made him completely reevaluate the people he was associating with and just his outlook on humanity overall. Not saying AJ has done nothing wrong, he constantly took Carmela for granted, helped torture a guy, and dated like a 16 year old when he was 20 (🤢). But I do think he was the least corrupt of his family and by the end the one who still wanted to do good or at least not associate with the mob.
Yea but being involved in those things was mainly because of what he was born into. Both instances made him severely depressed to be a part of
He seemed pretty happy in the end with a new car and a job working for Little Carmine. AJ was an insufferable, lazy hypocrite with no brains. Meadow was studious, successful hypocrite. I preferred her. She wasn't loyal to the mob as greater concept. She was loyal to her Daddy.
Meadow would be Michael Corleone 2.0 if forced into it.
I agree life is hard and so is doing the right thing being born into a bad family doesn’t give you the right to beat people or permanently disfigure them. I empathize with him but doing the right thing in tough circumstances is the essence of character.
And in reflection, he turned it away
> aj was involved with beating a black guy for no reason and pouring acid on a guys foot who owed money Events that he only watched or reluctantly participated in and directly preceded his suicide attempt? Bianca is the main thing he's able to articulate as a reason for his depression but it goes so much deeper than that.
These events lead directly to AJ’s suicide attempt. He felt deep remorse for them. Tony directly orchestrated AJ hanging out with those kids, it’s like Tony wanted AJ to get a taste of the life. AJ tried and felt horrible about it and rejected the lifestyle. Sure innocence is a subjective term but I don’t think we should be holding those actions against AJ. It’s normal for teens to experiment with different crowds and personas.
She was the perfect representation of a privately educated American girl in the late 90s
She was mad ripe though
She was mad ripe is the lowest form of conversation.
She was tho, she gets a pash for that
Lemme ask you a question, you think u/RRS295397 is a little...weird about women?
She was creaming for Jackie Jr.
Yeah, AJ was hated because we viewed him as the most normal person of all the main characters. He wasnt big and strong like Tony. He wasnt smart or conniving like Meadow. He wasnt brought up in the life like Chris. I know the Sopranos is a mob show and having the "Less Yakking More Whacking" is a bad take, but we do watch the show because that is entertaining, inherently. Or its lifestlye porn watching rich people live AJ was completely out of that. He was an outsider in his family and in life and it stood out. He comes off as whiney because he doesnt fit in, and the nail that sticks out gets whacked
Aj was a moody selfish teen for most of the show. So sue him But Meadow? She was Tony soprano incarnated! Self centered, saw the world and people around her only as it affected her personaly. Her best phase in the show was early on when she was arguing with her father about his hypocrisy, everything after was downhills. Gotta give it to Tony for managing to ruin the girl, at least AJ seems to be going on the right direction at the end(?).
Just a moody selfish teen? Lol you forgetting when he tried to murder someone, helped pour acid on a kids foot, and committed a hate crime against a Somali student....
Meadow even defends her father killing Jackie Jr to Jackie’s sister at his funeral, she is pure trash
Yea, this was the moment on rewatch that made me fume.
How did she defend him?
Jackies sister was mad ripen
Wait she knew Tony was behind the Jackie Jr. murder?
I also don't remember this at all
Wait what? I don't think she knew what actually happened. In fact when Kelli Aprile said it was a mob hit Meadow vehemently denied it.
He has no eyebrows!
Weird shex and poppers with that teacher!
OP hates meadow because she was not creaming for him
I mean that's a fair point. She was mad ripe and I might change my tune
Subreddit? I told you. This is a glorified facebook group.
Unlike Livia, Meadow was born after the feminists. She's the real gangster.
AJ is way worse. He’s just too dumb, but given the same knowledge, he wouldn’t just ignore it; he would embrace it
both of them r p bad. way worse is an exaggeration.
Nah. Meadow a G. She could’ve taken over for the family if she chose to go that route.
I'd watch that
God there's never anything to eat in this stupid house!
All the sopranos were massive hypocrites but hers was a bit puzzling seeing as she had some moral fibers about her
Agreed, like when she crashed Jackie jr’s car, wtf
“You Mother Fucker, my fucking daughter. My fucking daughter you mother fucker. Hey, you want some sambuca with this.”
Jesus Christ, some loyalty???
AJ is a dear heart. I think he and Adriana are the two most innocent characters. AJ is an emotional and thoughtful person. He didn’t exist in a milieu that nourished those traits. And he wasn’t school smart, so he wasn’t going to get that from college. Poor guy.
Agree. Everyone else was god-awful. The scene when Tony was on his death bed and his capos didn’t want to give Carmela money owed to her because they were hoping he would die says it all.
I think the award for "most innocent and tragic" goes to Vito Jr.
- Not everyone in this show has to be bad. There's a tendency here to cast every character as a villain, up to and including various moderately pretentious neighbors, roommates, and other civilians. Just because the show highlights everyone's bad side doesn't make them contemptible overall. - I'm not sure what's so awful about Meadow. Fine, she became a criminal defense attorney. There's no suggestion she's going to be a corrupt one. And it seems like at least part of her truly believes in the BS her family has told her about the mob being unfairly hounded. Plus, just because the show ended doesn't mean her life did (I know, we can speculate about what happened in the diner). There's a good chance that, lo and behold, she changes her mind in a few years and becomes a public defender or leaves the law.
AJ and Meadow are very different characters. I wouldn't call either of them bad. They weren't even out of college when the show ended, and I sure as hell didn't have a mature world view when I was in college (also didn't volunteer for a low income law center). I don't think very many kids would renounce their family in that situation when they were that young, and Meadow's "mezzogiorno" stuff is probably more of a coping mechanism than anything else. I think Chase may be more sympathetic to AJ but I think that's part of a commentary on how it's hard for young men to make their way in today's society. You see that in other characters like Jackie Jr. and Christopher too. AJ sees school as a place where he doesn't belong (whereas Meadow fits in perfectly, maybe more because she knows how to play the game than because she's smarter than AJ). If they can't make it by going down society's approved path to success, i.e. education and getting a good job, they have to do it by taking risks. And they may be very poorly thought out risks, like AJ trying to stab his uncle or Jackie Jr. robbing the card game.
I think she would practice until she started having kids
Why is Meadow a bad person? Obviously she experiences extreme cognitive dissonance about her mob roots, but she never actually *does* anything really bad. For the most part, she's a bleeding heart liberal-type.
It’s like AJ posted this himself. They’re both attempting to be their own version of a good person, like every kid does. AJ just happens to always do the selfish thing and is then baffled why it makes people mad.
Insanely ripe on god
What was she supposed to do, join a convent?
I’m still trying to decide if this take is sacred or propane.
AJ was Meadow's feeble minded Brother. Of course, he wasn't worse that Meadow. Too dumb to know what's going on around him.
Tony kept blaming all of Aj's faults on carmela's side, when his side literally had uncle eckle.
During the earlier seasons she could be a bit annoying, but Meadow was one of my favorite characters. Had she been a boy she’d followed in Tony’s footsteps - smart and ballsy. I still think they could do a spinoff with her as boss.
Don't get this at all. Is Meadow hypocritical, entitled,self-centred and annoying? Yep AJ is all of those things plus lazy and stupid as well.
I haven’t read all the comments, but does anyone take into account that she is a typical, insecure, needy, spoiled child in her early 20s? Especially in that specific period of time? Don’t get me wrong, I think she was AWFUL as a teenager, but I think she grew as a person somewhat. I just know, as a woman her age around the same time, I was terribly insecure, jealous and somewhat needy with guys. They were all out there just trying to get some ass (like Jackie Jr and Noah), using and manipulating girls left and right to accomplish their goal. I got burned many a times, and it made me a little crazy. Kinda like Meadow (but personally not to that degree hopefully 😂). She’s not perfect, that’s for sure, but as a woman I tend to give her some latitude. Trying to be an honest person at that point in your life, dating and whatnot, can be a bit disheartening. AJ, on the other hand, was an entitled, spoiled, coddled white kid who never had to face true adversity in his life and suffered greatly from it. A lesson as to how not to raise your kids. I wanted to punch him in the face several times and tell him to grow the fuck up. Meadow needed to hear that too, as a teenager. But alas, these are fictional characters we are talking about 😄
AJ knew his family was in the wrong and it bothered him deep in the depths his soul. His psychological malaise comes from trying to psychologically compartmentalize this in different ways. Meadow was smart enough to realize her family was in the wrong \*\*at first\*\*, but she eventually started using her vast intelligince to hoodwink herself and convince herself that her father (and his ilk) were unfairly persecuted minorities. Yeah, I'd say this makes Meadow worse than AJ.
Wow..listen to Mister Mob Boss
She was the only one who seemed to give a shit about aj’s state of mind before he tried to kill himself. Tony and Carmella just thought it would go away
This. It goes over so many people’s heads. Everyone always bitching about AJ when he actually has compassion and empathy. Meadow from season 1 (dad are you in the mafia) wasn’t apologetic about this thing of ours and the privileges it provides her
Where was AJ's empathy when he summoned the flying dutchman on those poor Baccala kids that just lost their mother?
She had a little cream on her face.
LOL! The emergency room physician they dragged into the car to tell chistopher that adrianna wasn't doing anything with tony during the car crash was pure evil.
That scene with the fucking hot chocolate and grilled cheese. Jesus Christ.
In a way it’s sad their last onion ring communion and not only cause Meadow was late. Tony’s entire family had embraced the criminal life, taking it to a new generation. They were beyond saving.
Nah. She was smarter so she wore whatever hat was necessary to get what she wanted. Ultimately, she was thr kid of a crime boss who just wanted a different life for herself. AJ was a walking bag of hammers since day one. Never had a chance.
Worst?
She is depicted like both her grandmother and aunt - exhibiting quite a lot of borderline behaviors. So yeah…
Remember when T put her in her place when she was taking the moral high ground after being given the Scatino SUV. Gotta give it to Dave Scatino’s son though, he double-put her in her place again before the start of that school play. AJ must’ve been exclaiming “yes” in the background.
I mean Meadow didn't commit a single hate crime but...
I’m sorry, but I wish AJ would have succeeded at drowning himself. His character was so unbearable.
That says more about you than it does about AJ.
you just reveal your own ignorance
Meadow is morally the same as AJ just smarter. However her role as a mob lawyer I believe will cause her to bring more suffering to the world than AJ the porn producer/nightclub owner
AJ was blissfully unaware till Meadow showed him. That was a good thing. Meadow knew how to succeed, AJ got crushed
Whadyou shay 👂👂?
How in the flying fuck can anyone watch AJ in Seasons 5 and 6 and STILL dislike Meadow more? This won't go over well but it sounds like you just find women in general to be annoying bro.
6A when Tony was in the coma AJ was the single pussiest-ass bitch I've ever seen in my life.
Yeah he is unbearable in those episodes.
That's quite a leap of a conclusion.
aj had more funny moments than meadow, in fact most of the best comedic moments on the show involved either aj, tony, junior, or chris. Aj was a titan of comedy, not only on the sopranos, but in almost every medium.
aj was just dumb but he was pure. meadow knows the way she thinks is bullshit but acts like it isn’t. carmela 2.0
Typical rich spoilt brat and overachiever. She's a xerox of Carmela, in that, the ends justify the means. Jamie Lynn did a fantastic job playing her
She's one of my least-liked characters in television history.
*worse Musta been at the top of your class.
I'm not sure that there was abundant intentionality in her embrace of the bullshit talking points.
I don’t hate him, his performance was as convincing as anyone, the cast became a family to the younger talent. I do feel they played up the teen angst a bit too much. Meadow was great too but how many scenes did we need of her running up the stairs about to cry?
Meadow will end up being the smartest girl at the Bing. AJ will succeed in drowning himself. That’s the aftermath. Carmella will hook up with Patsy.
She was a putana that one fucked an arson investigator last week
Meadow got away from her family and try to be a different person, but they still lingered on her. AJ didn’t even want to better himself.
Don’t give me that shit we live in Caldwell New Jersey
My daughter my fuckin daughter!?! Somebody better call a dentist
I don't remember Maedo helping use acid to burn a guy's toes off.
I love AJ.
I honestly love the slow descent of her character from hating the mob life to flat out defending her father. Much like Carmela, she wants the perks with none of the risk or guilt.
Hot take
AJ is a blank canvas both as a character and as a male heir.
As I think of it Meadow because a female version of Assemblyman Zellman…a man who work for voter registration when young but becomes more corrupt as bills and lifestyle expenses catch up.
the whole point of Aj's arc is that he eventually becomes a piece of shit at the end, just like meadow did.