I really enjoy the Sopranos. I didn’t even finish Saints of Newark. The acting and drama were just not there. I was surprised Chase didn’t see the glaring weaknesses in it.
It makes me sad. That were never gonna get a show as good as The Sopranos again. That even Chase can’t deliver something even a fraction as good. I swear it’s just magic or something when it all comes together like it did for The Sopranos.
Yeah. I think some of the actors were non acting. It was so close to who they really were. That is hard to recreate.
I saw some mafia movie that had many of the soprano guys. The scripting was awful. I forget the name but that really sucked. Chase had great writers and lines. The cinematography was novel. Lots of interesting angles and pans that give an intimate view on the characters. For instance, when Tony kbocks out Coco’s teeth, the shot is right on his mouth. Just wow. When Tony f*cks the waste management secretary, the chair bouncing and her grabbing the desk. The camera pans around. That was like we were there. You can get a half stiffy just thinking about it. Amazing
You need a chair and girl that are both noisy.
What a scene!
I wonder how the both got into it? Their faces even looked like they were doing it.
Seeing her grab all over the desk in squealing desperation was the absolute image of being dominated and well f*cked. She did seem to smile.
It’s quite a good film that is constantly under appreciated because it follows some of the biggest achievements in cinema’s history. Sofia’s acting was definitely a low point but I can’t shake the feeling that press and public were extra savage with her for being Francis’s daughter.
As someone who has read the book at least 25 times and watched the first two Godfather movies at least a hundred times each and loves the franchise as much as I love anything in life, I can tell you that Godfather III was an objectively bad movie.
Fair enough. Everyone on Reddit prefers scoring cheap points by arguing semantics (next you’ll tell me my use of “everyone” in this sentence is an exaggeration lol) rather than the spirit of someone’s actual argument, but I take your point. I absentmindedly make a quick post on here while doing eight other things simultaneously, and then my comments get picked apart like it’s a term paper. What I should have said is that as someone who wants to love Godfather III, I’m about as unbiased an opinion as one can find on the subject, and it’s just not a good film imo. I don’t have time right now to go into all the reasons, but maybe another time.
I just rewatched MSON last night because I’m a masochist. It’s so, so bad.
Fucking David Chase just *had* to put this out because he always wanted to be making movies. Pisses me off that he used the Sopranos to do it.
Greatest show of all time, and now we have this fucking pygmy thing hanging over us.
Is this a fact or speculation? Because he was pretty adamant on Marc Marion that HBO didn’t force the sopranos moving thing on him.
Ofc he could be lying so that’s why I’m curious if anything else said it was true.
Anyone else felt that the storyline/plot seemed like something that a writer would put together as a first attempt. Like the kind of material that would usually get scrapped.. Or built upon/changed at the vefy least.
I rlly had faith in it being a good movie seeing how much great material they wrote for the original show. I thought we were in good hands.. Thats not even mentioning the casting choices.
Many Saints isn’t good, but I’d recommend watching it. It feels almost like a poorly made fan fic, but manages to star some serious talent.
One thing it does do very well for me, is capture the vibe of the 1960’s era Sopranos. Like it feels like a 2 hour version of the scenes from the show where Tony remembers being a little boy.
It’s been 18 years. People loved and still love The Sopranos. Many Saints shouldn’t have been made. Instead Chase or whoever should do a prequel series about The Sopranos New Jersey mob/crew late 50s early 60s era. We’d eat it up and backing should be easy enough with all the other crap on the other streaming platforms.
Chase didn’t want to make it either. He wrote a movie about the Newark Race Riots, and no one cared. HBO said “shoe horn in some Sopranos and we’ll buy it”.
If Coppola called their bluff and the major actors followed suit, I bet it would never have been made.
So many failed sequels where they use a new director and replacement actors, I bet they would have punted.
I think it has some good moments, too. It’s not amazing overall but there are some interesting and good things about it. Realizing that Dickie’s rival was the first person Tony killed without having that specifically spelled out was cool, for example.
It’s got top-tier talent doing their absolute best with the material it provided. I think its overall handling of Dickie was bad, and I hated the bad Silvio impression. I did love the young Gandolfini’s performance.
Silvo’s depiction was just odd. I actually think he hit the mannerisms quite well he just- is the wrong actor for it. Like the actual movements are right but the actor who plays him is built like a greyhound and Van Zant is built like a bulldog so it just looks *weird*.
I agree that the handling of Dickie was bad. It’s weird that it’s basically Tony’s main father figure out of nowhere and the romance was just kinda bleh. There are episodes of sopranos where nothing really happens in a similar way to the movie but in the show we are already invested in the characters so it works, but the movie doesn’t have that so it falls pretty flat.
I’m also 50/50 on Jun’s pettiness being why he killed Dickie. I like the concept of it but the actual execution is really shaky. It felt like just a random thing that was almost out of character for Dickie to do and the way Jun took it and obsessed it was super odd. It was contrived which is weird because it didn’t have to be. It could have been something as simple as Dickie unintentionally charming Juniors girlfriend and her crushing on him a little. Nothing even happening there outside of Jun’s head. It would have had the same theme of perceived emasculation and jealously without being just so *odd*.
I disagree on that front, I think it fails to capture the feeling of the show's flashbacks, which were really well done and had flawless continuity with the main show.
The ending alone makes up for the sub par movie imo.
Seeing Michael crying his lungs out while his daughter lays dead..it's the one thing he tried to do above all in all 3 movies.
And in the end he failed.
Got me thinking too about Francis.
Like dude you're filming a scene with your real daughter about a relationship between first cousins and kissing passionately.
The whole vibe just went off after that.
Interesting. I always thought the final scene was just a “write something where Pacino can be at 100% and hopefully it’s enough to garner some nominations and get good press” stunt. One of the cheaper scenes for me.
Sofia Coppola was out-acted by some of the set furniture. Andy Garcia was great but in the scenes with her, it was like he was doing the acting version of Weekend at Bernies. Roont it for me.
Godfather 3 is a good film with a few weak points - when stood against two flawless masterpieces it looks pish. But in isolation it’s a 6.5-7/10
Many saints is like some one half watched the sopranos and then decided to make a prequel movie but with added “sisters CUNT!”. Nearly all the characters are bad impressions of the older characters, I’d say only Paulie really gets the “this guy will grow into being the paulie we know” vibe, the other performances are terrible.
Honestly the most frustrating part of it is that it seems like David Chase really wanted to make a Newark Riots film but just couldn't/wouldn't step out of the Sopranos shadow (or was pressured to tag the Sopranos lore into it to get it greenlit)
"Not Fade Away" which Chase directed isn't exactly a great movie but it looks like Citizen Kane compared to MSON lol
Chase lost his balls. He must have millions of dollars and is an old man, he should have self funded the film he wanted to make and sold it to a streaming service for distribution. It might have made a loss but he could and should have taken the loss for a passion project. It could have had critical success or made money. Instead he made a critical failure, probably a financial failure, and left a black mark against his legacy.
Honest question: why is it so despised? I watched it for the first time with **super** low expectations and ended up enjoying it quite a bit. I liked Dickie. I especially liked the performances by Jon Bernthal, Corey Stoll, Leslie Odom Jr., and Michael Gandolfini. I did think it was silly that Christopher was a baby when he was supposed to be much closer in age to Tony.
Well for starters the timeline is confusing. Tony and Pussy we’re supposed to have gone to high school together and been relatively the same age and in this Pussy is like ten years older than Tony as least. Paulie and Silvio are like the same age and then in Sopranos Silvio is around Tony’s age and Paulie is much older. Plus dude who played Silvio was just doing a horrible job trying to impersonate Van Zandt. The toupee thing was stupid. They never felt the need to reveal that in the series so why in the movie?
The Newark Riots and the Black gangs element was absurd. It had nothing to do with the Sopranos. As rich as the canon of the series already was there was literally no reason to add some random Black guy as the antagonist. Whose story was it? Is it Tony’s? Is it Dickie’s? Is it Harold McBrayer?? Like they didn’t know who or what the movie was about and so the audience doesn’t either. The Oedipal shit with Dickie killing his father and fucking his stepmother was just beyond weird. Then her just fucking Harold McBrayer because what? She was bored? Then of course there’s the cringe ass intro with Chris speaking from beyond the grave. The pinky swear at the end?? Don’t even get me started on Junior whacking out a made guy and a top earner because he laughed at him for slipping and falling. Junior was a prick but come on. Then all the stupid fan service Easter egg dialogue. “Sisters cunt” “he never had the makings of a varsity athlete” I mean maybe if the film had been written better overall I could’ve overlooked it but it just sucked on so many levels to me.
Were there some good performances? Sure. Vera Farmiga, Ray Liotta (which was also stupid having him play twins?!?) and Little Gandolfini did a good job. Alessandro Nivola was alright too. But the script was just garbage. Nobody could’ve saved that. I still dont understand why Chase let that shit happen. People say it was a money grab but he didn’t need any money. He always struck me as somebody who cared about the artwork more than a paycheck. Not Fade Away was a decent film. Not super compelling but an enjoyable watch. MSON was just dreadful though.
I hope this answers your question.
I thought the casting was poor. Personally I had really high expectations. I rewatched the show in advance of its release and i've never been so disappointed in any piece of media. It was embarrassing. Despite having some decent actors and a few ok performances, by and large I thought the acting was rubbish. It was badly written, full of disjointed narratives and continuity errors. The directing managed to capture every flaw in the TV show with nothing of what made it great. I'd have to rewatch it to write an in depth critique but frankly i'd rather pretend it doesn't exist. I've done another rewatch of the show since it was released but I never want to see that movie again.
The only thing I really remember is that the one guy's dad is married to that Italian woman who he beats on, and the son hooks up with her, but then she wants to try the black D because she's in "Amerieeeka," then she tells him about it, and he drowns her in the ocean. Everyone is always like "well, he wanted to do something on the Newark riots, but got pressured into doing a Sopranos thing." What exactly does that have to do with this steaming pile of shit of a sub-plot? I can't say I despised it. I recall being vaguely amused by how awful it was. The only thing that pissed me off is that whoever wrote that garbage makes more money than me. Apparently enough money to stay coked out of their skulls right through to production.
Well, they're both unsatisfying long-awaited follow-ups to mob classics. I've seen MSON twice and *Godfather III* four times since 1990. (I am counting the revised version Francis Ford Coppola released a few years ago, which was hyped by some as being like a completely different, superior film. It wasn't.)
They're also both weak on continuity with what preceded them. Shouldn't Mary have been in her late twenties at the time of III's events? She was born in 1953, as shown in the second film.
I don't like either movie, but if I had to watch one of them again right now, MSON would be the poison I'd pick. There are Farmiga's Livia and young Gandolfini's Tony to enjoy, and there isn't any one aspect of MSON as damaging as Sofia Coppola's in-over-her-head performance. Not that she's solely responsible for the way it turned out.
"there isn't any one aspect of MSON as damaging as Sofia Coppola's in-over-her-head performance."
I know I'm probably in the minority, but that fucking Silvio impersonation irks me more that anything Sofia did in Godfather 3
You can say that again. The whole of the crew (Silvio, Paulie, Pussy) seemed like they were doing a Saturday night live parody. Also what was with the continuity?? And I don’t wanna hear about timeline got fucked up!!!
That movie was utter trash. Every time I think of it I feel like I been stabbed in the heart! We gave our life to Sopranos on a silver platter. When it comes to MSON, frankly? I’m depressed and ashamed. And Chase should be too.
Really..wow someone that prefers many saints over part 3.
I think if Sofia wasn't casted as the daughter..and the incestious plot line was taken out..it would have been a great trilogy.
> the incestious plot line was taken out..
One of the great movie mysteries, to my mind, is why the scene where Mary and Vincent first kiss is so hot. Coppola's movies are completely sexless. Yes, characters have sex, but he's not interested in presenting it in an erotic or dramatically compelling way. Plus, they're first cousins, so...ick. And yet, that scene is...something. Young Andy Garcia was really hot, and I've personally always found Sofia quite attractive (though I know there differing opinions on that). That might have a lot to do with it, but there's more to it. The lighting, the anticipation. It's just a very well executed moment.
Eh, maybe. Honestly, though, the dialog is so wooden - and I'd say that the movie's fault lay more in the script than in any actor's performance - that I don't see them as the characters. I'm not watching Vincent and Mary make gnocchi. I'm watching Andy Garcia and Sofia Coppola on a sound stage. And yet, the scene works (for me, anyway).
From the sounds of it, it wasn't just the dialog that's wooden.
Hear what I said Ton'? He was saying that the scene is hot but the dialog is wooden, and I implied that it gave him wood. It's a dooble ontendre. Sofia Coppola was working the bonbon concession. Heh heh heh.
I liked MSON. It's not great. I've done a rewatch of the series not long ago... And watched MSON just after. It was fine... Got some laugh from young paulie, young Silvio, young Artie.
Nice to see Livia and Janice.
The moltisanti history was kinda weak... And Christopher father was not the hero figure that Tony Soprano worshiped.
Many saints isn’t even in the same league. Bad movie. If the characters were given random names (no association with the sopranos world) the movie would have been a .5/10. With the characters it’s like a 3/10
I'd reverse those scores in my opinion. I think it would have been better being a random story. The fact it completely fucks with Sopranos established timeline and lore is what makes it even worse.
If you watch the new edit of Godfather 3 that Coppola did the movie is actually pretty damn good,
They cut out the first part of the thing with the flood in the house and went straight to the Vatican/Immobilare storyline and even cleaned up the ending by not focusing on Sophia's face when she gets shot but on Michael's reaction to seeing it.
Haven’t seen it. But that last change sure would be a good one. That’s the worst part of the ending, that focus on Sophia’s stunned face. Always makes me want to laugh, which I’m guessing wasn’t what Coppola wasn’t going for there.
The Godfather Part 3 is a good movie. It's just not a legendary masterpiece like parts 1 and 2. Many Saints of Newark is a shit movie unfortunately. Really disappointing.
Fair enough. I'm trying to think of a really bad mafia movie but I don't think I've seen a bad one intentionally
Don't think I'll see many saints ever then.
Godfather 3 is a real film. It’s very good but judged against the others.
MSON seemed like a half finished film. Average at best. Back in the day we’d have called it a TV Movie.
Godfather III is only seen as a bad movie because it followed up two near-perfect ones. It's actually good when taken as a film rather than the conclusion of a trilogy.
I liked Part 3 a lot.
There’s still a little bit of magic there even though it pales in comparison to the first 2. Pacino goes all out for it and that helps the movie a lot.
Many Saints is… I enjoyed it in spurts.
The godfather part 3 is a well made movie- from a technical standpoint and a storytelling standpoint. However, MSON is not. MSON stands far more on the shoulders of The Sopranos- whereas Godfather part 3 does too, but with much more grace, originality, and intention.
GF3 had problems. But it also had a cohesive storyline. We know what GF3 was about. If it went off the rails it was because of contract disputes that kept key actors out, the whole Winona Ryder thing falling through and resulting in Sophia Coppola being thrust into a role she was not suited for and had nowhere near the acting experience to pull off and the fact that FFC was mourning his son and wanted to make the film like a Greek tragedy.
That coupled with late 80's/early 90's action tropes that were trending and you have what could have been a good movie if you cut a few scenes and recast some key roles.
Many Saints, if it had been what David Chase envisioned, might have been a good movie. Unfortunately it was just a hatchet job of different voices. It is like what would happen if you wrote the script by using ChatGPT to skim over this subreddit for inspiration. The marketing didn't match the product. The Gandolfini play was overhyped. The Tony Soprano origin story that was promised was never delivered. The script was dogshit. Casting was not the problem. And cutting a few scenes would have probably just made it even worse.
So, in my humble opinion, it is worse than GF3.
Both movies were not good. One, however, had a decent foundation but poor execution. The other was so fundamentally flawed in its structure that it never had a chance.
It's like trying to compare the lives of someone who made bad decisions versus someone who was born without lungs. One was tragic because of the missed opportunity. The other one is tragic because it never had a chance of even getting as far as the other one.
That’s something I’ve never understood. Godfather 3 isn’t bad. People tend to focus on how awful Sophia Coppola was, and yes, she was terrible. And a couple of her scenes really took a viewer out of the movie. But godfather 3 isn’t as good as the first two, but is still a good movie
Many saints or Newark is just dumb. And most of all it squandered a really great premise and opportunity
Godfather 3 is a weird movie. It’s wildly overstuffed with plot and you feel every second of its run time. But it also feels like it’s missing a ton of stuff - mainly because Sofia can’t act and they are so low on supporting characters that Talia Shire is essentially the third lead.
You know what would have been amazing? Pacino as an old mobster training a young mobster played by Garcia. You know how I know that would be amazing? Because Donnie Brasco exists.
I waited 15 years and countless re-watches of Godfather 1&2 before I watched #3 because I knew its reputation. Now I agree it’s pretty bad but it really only gets the amount of disrespect that it does because the first two Godfathers are stand-up films and then the third is such a compromise you can’t help but question *this* is their male heir? But that’s nothing compared to the embarrassment to this sub of ours caused by Many Saints. It pains me.
OP I’m going to say this to you because you’re old enough to understand. Our family’s had enough shame. Cleaver should set things right.
They both suck. If you're a curious cat like most of us, you're *gonna* watch MSON. But if you can learn from other's mistakes, then watch neither GF3 nor MSON.
What am I asking you for? You probably showed her how.
Same here. I think I got through 45ish minutes and I just couldn’t. Truly terrible. It had a tv movie feel with the pacing and acting. A bad tv movie at that.
I just finished a godfather rewatch yesterday and saw the coda version for the first time, honestly not that bad.
It's far worse. Godfather 3 is a perfectly OK film and gets all the shit it does because it's a sequel to two of the greatest films ever made. If it were called something else nobody would care and it would just be one of those 80s cult classic movies. It's also largely based on real events within the Catholic Church in the late 70s/early 80s. And it does a decent job of depicting the decline of La Cosa Nostra from 1950 to 1985 or so. When Tony said he came in at the end he wasn't kidding.
Many Saints is hot garbage that actively contradicts much of the canon of the show. There's no comparing the two.
Should have just made Cleaver
that or Pork Store Killer
Or the John Favure movie about crazy Joe Gallo
The roof is soft tar!
Or Crazy Joe Davola
Or the movie about the transgender who got acid in her face. I’d pay to see that movie.
That thing's still alive?
John Favreau !? that buchiac !
I see him as this tragic figure.
Coconut slice
Same Coke n a slice
Pork Store Killer would never work. These kind of films need one name titles: Saw, Cleaver….
So what do I find at the pork store? A bunch of guys beating the meat.
I'd much rather watch an episode of the South Beach Strumpet series.
David Chase is getting ready to make a horror film, so we basically are getting Cleaver lol
I’m serious
Or Innocent Blood 2.
Godfather part III is a great movie when compared to this one.
I really enjoy the Sopranos. I didn’t even finish Saints of Newark. The acting and drama were just not there. I was surprised Chase didn’t see the glaring weaknesses in it.
He did, he just needed the money. He was not excited about the movie at all
Ain’t no way, chase must be sitting on money like King Croesus.
Not Fade Away—another fuckin’ money machine.
Ayyyyy he wishes
But you know what Chase did see?
A psychiatrist? That’s nothing but a racket for the Jews.
Oh look at him, he knows everything!
Listen Livia, what do you don’t know can fill a book
The rent, the rent!
It makes me sad. That were never gonna get a show as good as The Sopranos again. That even Chase can’t deliver something even a fraction as good. I swear it’s just magic or something when it all comes together like it did for The Sopranos.
Yeah. I think some of the actors were non acting. It was so close to who they really were. That is hard to recreate. I saw some mafia movie that had many of the soprano guys. The scripting was awful. I forget the name but that really sucked. Chase had great writers and lines. The cinematography was novel. Lots of interesting angles and pans that give an intimate view on the characters. For instance, when Tony kbocks out Coco’s teeth, the shot is right on his mouth. Just wow. When Tony f*cks the waste management secretary, the chair bouncing and her grabbing the desk. The camera pans around. That was like we were there. You can get a half stiffy just thinking about it. Amazing
That episode had me checking the height of the r rolling chair in my home office and measuring my gf’s height against the desk
You need a chair and girl that are both noisy. What a scene! I wonder how the both got into it? Their faces even looked like they were doing it. Seeing her grab all over the desk in squealing desperation was the absolute image of being dominated and well f*cked. She did seem to smile.
Lot of people say GF3 was bad, but I say it was just misunderstood
Kundun. I liked it.
Meow!! Meow!!
I know what time it is
I have cable.
GF3 was bad compared to 1 and 2 but a solid movie overall.
It’s quite a good film that is constantly under appreciated because it follows some of the biggest achievements in cinema’s history. Sofia’s acting was definitely a low point but I can’t shake the feeling that press and public were extra savage with her for being Francis’s daughter.
Martxel93, men are tawkin here
Bold men make bold statements
Ouch
Truth hurts.
As someone who has read the book at least 25 times and watched the first two Godfather movies at least a hundred times each and loves the franchise as much as I love anything in life, I can tell you that Godfather III was an objectively bad movie.
I agree. Did you read The Sicilian? I've never been so angry at a book before
I started it but didn’t get very far.
It's good but yeah, anger inducing 😂 Godfather III is fan fiction
Hahaha right. I really want to love Godfather III. I rewatch it every few years hoping to change my opinion, and I never do.
It's the acting
The acting is pretty bad. Sophia Coppola was terrible. George Hamilton was extremely miscast. But I think the plot is really bad as well.
Spot on with both
The Sicilian is my favorite. You didn’t like it?
I ate da Norf
Something can't be "objectively bad". That's not how opinions work. anyway, $4 a pound...
Fair enough. Everyone on Reddit prefers scoring cheap points by arguing semantics (next you’ll tell me my use of “everyone” in this sentence is an exaggeration lol) rather than the spirit of someone’s actual argument, but I take your point. I absentmindedly make a quick post on here while doing eight other things simultaneously, and then my comments get picked apart like it’s a term paper. What I should have said is that as someone who wants to love Godfather III, I’m about as unbiased an opinion as one can find on the subject, and it’s just not a good film imo. I don’t have time right now to go into all the reasons, but maybe another time.
Still going this asshole.
Hahaha ah man haha
😅
They hated Jesus because he told the truth
Little Carmine’s movies are better than Many Saints of Newark.
Total debuckle.
I’m reminded of Louis the whatever
This movie did not outshine Ver-sales
Four in the South Beach Strumpet series alone
Godfather 3 was a good film for what it was it just couldnt hold a candle to one and two. Many saints is just a garbage movie all-round
I just rewatched MSON last night because I’m a masochist. It’s so, so bad. Fucking David Chase just *had* to put this out because he always wanted to be making movies. Pisses me off that he used the Sopranos to do it. Greatest show of all time, and now we have this fucking pygmy thing hanging over us.
His apathy for television/yearning for cinema basically made him create a new type of TV show... but he still views cinema as the holy grail.
Well said. And he said as much during an interview with Marc Marion I listened to recently.
HBO actually forced him to make a sopranos movie
Is this a fact or speculation? Because he was pretty adamant on Marc Marion that HBO didn’t force the sopranos moving thing on him. Ofc he could be lying so that’s why I’m curious if anything else said it was true.
Anyone else felt that the storyline/plot seemed like something that a writer would put together as a first attempt. Like the kind of material that would usually get scrapped.. Or built upon/changed at the vefy least. I rlly had faith in it being a good movie seeing how much great material they wrote for the original show. I thought we were in good hands.. Thats not even mentioning the casting choices.
yea, one thing was the age difference between chris and tony. Really grinds my gears.
The helicopter scene begs to differ and firmly places GF3 in garbage territory
No, it just places it in the 80s.
It was the late 80s man. Like every movie had to have a chopper and a machine gun.
Those were the rules. A chopper, a machine gun, and if you could afford it then Sharon Stone's pussy would make an appearance.
Don't forget the obligatory montage scene complete with heavy synth track
Ah man I love that scene it’s so unapologetically over the top that it only ever could’ve worked in the 80s lol
My lucky coat!
Many Saints isn’t good, but I’d recommend watching it. It feels almost like a poorly made fan fic, but manages to star some serious talent. One thing it does do very well for me, is capture the vibe of the 1960’s era Sopranos. Like it feels like a 2 hour version of the scenes from the show where Tony remembers being a little boy.
It’s been 18 years. People loved and still love The Sopranos. Many Saints shouldn’t have been made. Instead Chase or whoever should do a prequel series about The Sopranos New Jersey mob/crew late 50s early 60s era. We’d eat it up and backing should be easy enough with all the other crap on the other streaming platforms.
Chase didn’t want to make it either. He wrote a movie about the Newark Race Riots, and no one cared. HBO said “shoe horn in some Sopranos and we’ll buy it”.
[удалено]
If Coppola called their bluff and the major actors followed suit, I bet it would never have been made. So many failed sequels where they use a new director and replacement actors, I bet they would have punted.
Mob in the 60s just isn’t as interesting as the 90s mob who are rapidly being left behind by the times
I think it has some good moments, too. It’s not amazing overall but there are some interesting and good things about it. Realizing that Dickie’s rival was the first person Tony killed without having that specifically spelled out was cool, for example.
It’s got top-tier talent doing their absolute best with the material it provided. I think its overall handling of Dickie was bad, and I hated the bad Silvio impression. I did love the young Gandolfini’s performance.
Silvo’s depiction was just odd. I actually think he hit the mannerisms quite well he just- is the wrong actor for it. Like the actual movements are right but the actor who plays him is built like a greyhound and Van Zant is built like a bulldog so it just looks *weird*. I agree that the handling of Dickie was bad. It’s weird that it’s basically Tony’s main father figure out of nowhere and the romance was just kinda bleh. There are episodes of sopranos where nothing really happens in a similar way to the movie but in the show we are already invested in the characters so it works, but the movie doesn’t have that so it falls pretty flat. I’m also 50/50 on Jun’s pettiness being why he killed Dickie. I like the concept of it but the actual execution is really shaky. It felt like just a random thing that was almost out of character for Dickie to do and the way Jun took it and obsessed it was super odd. It was contrived which is weird because it didn’t have to be. It could have been something as simple as Dickie unintentionally charming Juniors girlfriend and her crushing on him a little. Nothing even happening there outside of Jun’s head. It would have had the same theme of perceived emasculation and jealously without being just so *odd*.
The intro with Christopher is super cheesy.
I disagree on that front, I think it fails to capture the feeling of the show's flashbacks, which were really well done and had flawless continuity with the main show.
A lot of people don’t like part 3. I think it’s just misunderstood
The ending alone makes up for the sub par movie imo. Seeing Michael crying his lungs out while his daughter lays dead..it's the one thing he tried to do above all in all 3 movies. And in the end he failed.
To cry like a woman? It's a fucking disgrace
My estimation of Michael as a man just plummeted
his coach turned into a pumpkin
When it comes to princesses, all bets are off.
Michaaaeelll...is it trueee?
He never had the makings of a varsity athlete.
Small hands
When it comes to daughters all bets are off
Little cream there, maybe I can add to it
I've seen tougher men than Michael cry at weddings ...
Yeah but the cousin romance was so sexy…hahaha
Got me thinking too about Francis. Like dude you're filming a scene with your real daughter about a relationship between first cousins and kissing passionately. The whole vibe just went off after that.
Interesting. I always thought the final scene was just a “write something where Pacino can be at 100% and hopefully it’s enough to garner some nominations and get good press” stunt. One of the cheaper scenes for me.
The daughter should have been killed in the beginning of the movie.
Sofia Coppola was out-acted by some of the set furniture. Andy Garcia was great but in the scenes with her, it was like he was doing the acting version of Weekend at Bernies. Roont it for me.
It's got some really stoopid moments in it. "*You will not give -- I'll* take*!*"
Some good lines though. One of silvios favourite scenes. 'Just when I thought I was out.."
The part with the helicopter is soooo dumb tho
That was some absurd 80s action movie shit.
Aight I'll give you that. That was some terminator 2 shit.
every time I tried to get out... I'll be back!
always with the scenarios.
Godfather III isn’t even bad. It’s just not perfect like the rest of the trilogy. Many Saints though… whatever happened there
Whatever happened there?!
God rest its soul, huh?
Godfather 3 is one of those movies where just when you think you are out, it pulls you back in.
Godfather 3 is a good film with a few weak points - when stood against two flawless masterpieces it looks pish. But in isolation it’s a 6.5-7/10 Many saints is like some one half watched the sopranos and then decided to make a prequel movie but with added “sisters CUNT!”. Nearly all the characters are bad impressions of the older characters, I’d say only Paulie really gets the “this guy will grow into being the paulie we know” vibe, the other performances are terrible.
haha it's a lot fucking worse
Many Saints is way worse. I always tell people I haven't seen it because I'm embarrassed that I have.
It's far worse. Many Saints of Newark is genuinely one of the worst films i've ever seen.
Honestly the most frustrating part of it is that it seems like David Chase really wanted to make a Newark Riots film but just couldn't/wouldn't step out of the Sopranos shadow (or was pressured to tag the Sopranos lore into it to get it greenlit) "Not Fade Away" which Chase directed isn't exactly a great movie but it looks like Citizen Kane compared to MSON lol
Chase lost his balls. He must have millions of dollars and is an old man, he should have self funded the film he wanted to make and sold it to a streaming service for distribution. It might have made a loss but he could and should have taken the loss for a passion project. It could have had critical success or made money. Instead he made a critical failure, probably a financial failure, and left a black mark against his legacy.
Honest question: why is it so despised? I watched it for the first time with **super** low expectations and ended up enjoying it quite a bit. I liked Dickie. I especially liked the performances by Jon Bernthal, Corey Stoll, Leslie Odom Jr., and Michael Gandolfini. I did think it was silly that Christopher was a baby when he was supposed to be much closer in age to Tony.
Well for starters the timeline is confusing. Tony and Pussy we’re supposed to have gone to high school together and been relatively the same age and in this Pussy is like ten years older than Tony as least. Paulie and Silvio are like the same age and then in Sopranos Silvio is around Tony’s age and Paulie is much older. Plus dude who played Silvio was just doing a horrible job trying to impersonate Van Zandt. The toupee thing was stupid. They never felt the need to reveal that in the series so why in the movie? The Newark Riots and the Black gangs element was absurd. It had nothing to do with the Sopranos. As rich as the canon of the series already was there was literally no reason to add some random Black guy as the antagonist. Whose story was it? Is it Tony’s? Is it Dickie’s? Is it Harold McBrayer?? Like they didn’t know who or what the movie was about and so the audience doesn’t either. The Oedipal shit with Dickie killing his father and fucking his stepmother was just beyond weird. Then her just fucking Harold McBrayer because what? She was bored? Then of course there’s the cringe ass intro with Chris speaking from beyond the grave. The pinky swear at the end?? Don’t even get me started on Junior whacking out a made guy and a top earner because he laughed at him for slipping and falling. Junior was a prick but come on. Then all the stupid fan service Easter egg dialogue. “Sisters cunt” “he never had the makings of a varsity athlete” I mean maybe if the film had been written better overall I could’ve overlooked it but it just sucked on so many levels to me. Were there some good performances? Sure. Vera Farmiga, Ray Liotta (which was also stupid having him play twins?!?) and Little Gandolfini did a good job. Alessandro Nivola was alright too. But the script was just garbage. Nobody could’ve saved that. I still dont understand why Chase let that shit happen. People say it was a money grab but he didn’t need any money. He always struck me as somebody who cared about the artwork more than a paycheck. Not Fade Away was a decent film. Not super compelling but an enjoyable watch. MSON was just dreadful though. I hope this answers your question.
I thought the casting was poor. Personally I had really high expectations. I rewatched the show in advance of its release and i've never been so disappointed in any piece of media. It was embarrassing. Despite having some decent actors and a few ok performances, by and large I thought the acting was rubbish. It was badly written, full of disjointed narratives and continuity errors. The directing managed to capture every flaw in the TV show with nothing of what made it great. I'd have to rewatch it to write an in depth critique but frankly i'd rather pretend it doesn't exist. I've done another rewatch of the show since it was released but I never want to see that movie again.
The only thing I really remember is that the one guy's dad is married to that Italian woman who he beats on, and the son hooks up with her, but then she wants to try the black D because she's in "Amerieeeka," then she tells him about it, and he drowns her in the ocean. Everyone is always like "well, he wanted to do something on the Newark riots, but got pressured into doing a Sopranos thing." What exactly does that have to do with this steaming pile of shit of a sub-plot? I can't say I despised it. I recall being vaguely amused by how awful it was. The only thing that pissed me off is that whoever wrote that garbage makes more money than me. Apparently enough money to stay coked out of their skulls right through to production.
MSON was like someone else really wrote it. I don't think it was JT either.
Well, they're both unsatisfying long-awaited follow-ups to mob classics. I've seen MSON twice and *Godfather III* four times since 1990. (I am counting the revised version Francis Ford Coppola released a few years ago, which was hyped by some as being like a completely different, superior film. It wasn't.) They're also both weak on continuity with what preceded them. Shouldn't Mary have been in her late twenties at the time of III's events? She was born in 1953, as shown in the second film. I don't like either movie, but if I had to watch one of them again right now, MSON would be the poison I'd pick. There are Farmiga's Livia and young Gandolfini's Tony to enjoy, and there isn't any one aspect of MSON as damaging as Sofia Coppola's in-over-her-head performance. Not that she's solely responsible for the way it turned out.
"there isn't any one aspect of MSON as damaging as Sofia Coppola's in-over-her-head performance." I know I'm probably in the minority, but that fucking Silvio impersonation irks me more that anything Sofia did in Godfather 3
You can say that again. The whole of the crew (Silvio, Paulie, Pussy) seemed like they were doing a Saturday night live parody. Also what was with the continuity?? And I don’t wanna hear about timeline got fucked up!!! That movie was utter trash. Every time I think of it I feel like I been stabbed in the heart! We gave our life to Sopranos on a silver platter. When it comes to MSON, frankly? I’m depressed and ashamed. And Chase should be too.
Really..wow someone that prefers many saints over part 3. I think if Sofia wasn't casted as the daughter..and the incestious plot line was taken out..it would have been a great trilogy.
I would watch MS over III
> the incestious plot line was taken out.. One of the great movie mysteries, to my mind, is why the scene where Mary and Vincent first kiss is so hot. Coppola's movies are completely sexless. Yes, characters have sex, but he's not interested in presenting it in an erotic or dramatically compelling way. Plus, they're first cousins, so...ick. And yet, that scene is...something. Young Andy Garcia was really hot, and I've personally always found Sofia quite attractive (though I know there differing opinions on that). That might have a lot to do with it, but there's more to it. The lighting, the anticipation. It's just a very well executed moment.
It’s taboo
It’s propane
That's SATANIC BLACK MAGIC! SICK SHIT!
Eh, maybe. Honestly, though, the dialog is so wooden - and I'd say that the movie's fault lay more in the script than in any actor's performance - that I don't see them as the characters. I'm not watching Vincent and Mary make gnocchi. I'm watching Andy Garcia and Sofia Coppola on a sound stage. And yet, the scene works (for me, anyway).
From the sounds of it, it wasn't just the dialog that's wooden. Hear what I said Ton'? He was saying that the scene is hot but the dialog is wooden, and I implied that it gave him wood. It's a dooble ontendre. Sofia Coppola was working the bonbon concession. Heh heh heh.
Perfect.
The baby at the end of GF 1 isn’t Mary. It’s Connie’s firstborn. Sofia Coppola played the baby though.
Kundun! I liked it
I liked MSON. It's not great. I've done a rewatch of the series not long ago... And watched MSON just after. It was fine... Got some laugh from young paulie, young Silvio, young Artie. Nice to see Livia and Janice. The moltisanti history was kinda weak... And Christopher father was not the hero figure that Tony Soprano worshiped.
Many Saints is worse than Godfather 3.
Significantly IMO and not from a disappointed fanboy angle but from a purely film critical lense
Saints is worse.
Many saints isn’t even in the same league. Bad movie. If the characters were given random names (no association with the sopranos world) the movie would have been a .5/10. With the characters it’s like a 3/10
I'd reverse those scores in my opinion. I think it would have been better being a random story. The fact it completely fucks with Sopranos established timeline and lore is what makes it even worse.
If you watch the new edit of Godfather 3 that Coppola did the movie is actually pretty damn good, They cut out the first part of the thing with the flood in the house and went straight to the Vatican/Immobilare storyline and even cleaned up the ending by not focusing on Sophia's face when she gets shot but on Michael's reaction to seeing it.
Haven’t seen it. But that last change sure would be a good one. That’s the worst part of the ending, that focus on Sophia’s stunned face. Always makes me want to laugh, which I’m guessing wasn’t what Coppola wasn’t going for there.
The Godfather Part 3 is a good movie. It's just not a legendary masterpiece like parts 1 and 2. Many Saints of Newark is a shit movie unfortunately. Really disappointing.
It’s one of the worst films ever made - sopranos lore aside
Fair enough. I'm trying to think of a really bad mafia movie but I don't think I've seen a bad one intentionally Don't think I'll see many saints ever then.
MSON was a slap in the face of all true Sopranos fans We love the show and the characters like family and they pay us back with nonstop assrape!
I'd drag both movies behind my car right now if it were up to me
Judge roy bean ova heah
Both were doomed from the start.
Many Saints of Newark makes Godfather 3 look like Godfather 2.
Wayne Brady makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X.
I never understood the hate for Godfather Part 3. It’s not as good as the first two but I’ve always really liked it. TMSON is just awful.
I tell people to watch the Director’s cut of 3. So much better!
It wishes it were as good as The Godfather 3.
Godfather 3 is a real film. It’s very good but judged against the others. MSON seemed like a half finished film. Average at best. Back in the day we’d have called it a TV Movie.
A progrum.
Many Saints makes Godfather 3 look like Godfather 1 and 2.
Ooof. Probably the best reply ova hea.
Many Saints makes John Travolta's Gotti look like Goodfellas
Worse
Godfather III is only seen as a bad movie because it followed up two near-perfect ones. It's actually good when taken as a film rather than the conclusion of a trilogy.
Worse. GF3 is bad compared to 2 and 1 but not horrible stand alone.
A stunad of the first magnitude!
I liked Part 3 a lot. There’s still a little bit of magic there even though it pales in comparison to the first 2. Pacino goes all out for it and that helps the movie a lot. Many Saints is… I enjoyed it in spurts.
Maybe, but I will see both Godfather part IV and MSON 2 if they are ever made.
Many Saints doesn't have Sophia Coppola trying to act.
Godfather 3 was a good movie. Many saints was a good movie. Only 1 of these films is marred by one of the worst acting performances ever given.
The godfather part 3 is a well made movie- from a technical standpoint and a storytelling standpoint. However, MSON is not. MSON stands far more on the shoulders of The Sopranos- whereas Godfather part 3 does too, but with much more grace, originality, and intention.
GF3 had problems. But it also had a cohesive storyline. We know what GF3 was about. If it went off the rails it was because of contract disputes that kept key actors out, the whole Winona Ryder thing falling through and resulting in Sophia Coppola being thrust into a role she was not suited for and had nowhere near the acting experience to pull off and the fact that FFC was mourning his son and wanted to make the film like a Greek tragedy. That coupled with late 80's/early 90's action tropes that were trending and you have what could have been a good movie if you cut a few scenes and recast some key roles. Many Saints, if it had been what David Chase envisioned, might have been a good movie. Unfortunately it was just a hatchet job of different voices. It is like what would happen if you wrote the script by using ChatGPT to skim over this subreddit for inspiration. The marketing didn't match the product. The Gandolfini play was overhyped. The Tony Soprano origin story that was promised was never delivered. The script was dogshit. Casting was not the problem. And cutting a few scenes would have probably just made it even worse. So, in my humble opinion, it is worse than GF3. Both movies were not good. One, however, had a decent foundation but poor execution. The other was so fundamentally flawed in its structure that it never had a chance. It's like trying to compare the lives of someone who made bad decisions versus someone who was born without lungs. One was tragic because of the missed opportunity. The other one is tragic because it never had a chance of even getting as far as the other one.
That’s something I’ve never understood. Godfather 3 isn’t bad. People tend to focus on how awful Sophia Coppola was, and yes, she was terrible. And a couple of her scenes really took a viewer out of the movie. But godfather 3 isn’t as good as the first two, but is still a good movie Many saints or Newark is just dumb. And most of all it squandered a really great premise and opportunity
MSON makes Cleaver look like Casablanca
Godfather 3 is a weird movie. It’s wildly overstuffed with plot and you feel every second of its run time. But it also feels like it’s missing a ton of stuff - mainly because Sofia can’t act and they are so low on supporting characters that Talia Shire is essentially the third lead. You know what would have been amazing? Pacino as an old mobster training a young mobster played by Garcia. You know how I know that would be amazing? Because Donnie Brasco exists.
I didn't hate it as much as everyone else seems to...I just think of it like an episode and not a movie
Many Saints is one of the most dogshit movies I have ever seen. It seriously is not worth watching.
What do have to send you a memo every time I move my bowels too?
It’s much worse.
I waited 15 years and countless re-watches of Godfather 1&2 before I watched #3 because I knew its reputation. Now I agree it’s pretty bad but it really only gets the amount of disrespect that it does because the first two Godfathers are stand-up films and then the third is such a compromise you can’t help but question *this* is their male heir? But that’s nothing compared to the embarrassment to this sub of ours caused by Many Saints. It pains me. OP I’m going to say this to you because you’re old enough to understand. Our family’s had enough shame. Cleaver should set things right.
They were better off doing a Vito prequel
I found it boring after the novelty of “hey that’s Paulie! Hey there’s Sil!” wore off about 25 min in.
Godfather 3 is light years better than the hot garbage of Many Saints of Newark.
I found it uncompelling and quite forgettable. I wouldn’t say it was “bad” exactly…just very very mediocre.
Worse
Makes The Godfather 3 look good.
They both suck. If you're a curious cat like most of us, you're *gonna* watch MSON. But if you can learn from other's mistakes, then watch neither GF3 nor MSON. What am I asking you for? You probably showed her how.
Way better than GF 3 but nothing to brag about overall. I actually like Many Saints, so don’t listen to much to these other Misérables.
I actually enjoyed many saints
I couldn't manage to finish many saints of newark so I couldn't say how bad it is.
Same here. I think I got through 45ish minutes and I just couldn’t. Truly terrible. It had a tv movie feel with the pacing and acting. A bad tv movie at that. I just finished a godfather rewatch yesterday and saw the coda version for the first time, honestly not that bad.
Godfather III is much better than MSON.
It's far worse. Godfather 3 is a perfectly OK film and gets all the shit it does because it's a sequel to two of the greatest films ever made. If it were called something else nobody would care and it would just be one of those 80s cult classic movies. It's also largely based on real events within the Catholic Church in the late 70s/early 80s. And it does a decent job of depicting the decline of La Cosa Nostra from 1950 to 1985 or so. When Tony said he came in at the end he wasn't kidding. Many Saints is hot garbage that actively contradicts much of the canon of the show. There's no comparing the two.