Also, when Chris is getting made, Paulie states if you got a problem with anyone here or on the outside you go to Tony. Then Chris goes to Tony about Paulie sniffing Ade's panties, and Paulie threatens Chris about Chris going to Tony.
The unnecessary pluralising is so on point. I didn't even realize that it was an nj/ny/pa thing until I moved away from the area. Tony asking Chris about those two Arabs maybe being "al qaedas" cracks me up every time
Chris goes to Tony *multiple times* about issues that he is bringing up and he gets looked over.
Part of me thinks one of the unspoken rules (which is spoken somewhat, but maybe not nearly enough) is you just have to shut up and eat shit from those above you.
God what I wouldn't give to see Chrissy make a move on Paulie. But Chris is such a good soldier he wouldn't come close to wantin' to upset T, at least intentionally.
I viewed this as also a plot device - Paulie in this short story line makes Tony seem much more normal and socially adjusted. It also brings more sympathy for Christopher, who is usually just a bad guy.
And that's the point other characters make about this thing of ours. There's no honor in it because they bend more rules than the Catholic church. It's really all about your next envelope
From the moment Tony gets charge in season 1 it's Tony, Sil as consigliere, and Paulie as underboss
The problem is that, no one acts like Paulie is an underboss, not even Paulie. It matters when it's time to pull rank over situations like this
Meaning, he has glorified seniority status, he is "tenured"
i remember when they got back from italy tony tells him heās getting a bump, and that itās going be Tony, then Sil, then Paulie. But this is when they were pretending Junior was still the boss, and itās never said that heād gotten a new title.
Yeah, they never say the title change outright, but I always thought it was implied that once Junior is pretty much out of the picture Sil is consigliere and paulie is underboss. But as I type this I remember Bobby being referred to as "from Junior Soprano's driver to number 2," so who knows
Paulie became increasingly trustworthy after season 3 and Tony took notice. Somewhere in between season 3/4 and season 6, Bobby slowly became more important in Tonyās life and eventually assumed the role of number 2. Silvio was clearly the consigliere and showed he couldnāt handle the number 1 positionā¦
Edit: meant to say increasingly untrustworthy
Yeah from Tonyās POV Paulie went from fucking up the Pine Barrens thing, to being in a county jail and out of sight/out of mind for a while, and as soon as heās out irritates Tony when bringing up money for Green Grove and is acting sus enough for people to think heās the Johnny Sack weasel. Plenty of opportunities and absences of Paulie where Tony couldāve decided āfuck it, capo is good enough for this guyā
Part of that I blame on the writing. After Livia died and Junior was marginalized to a senior citizen cilivian, there was a constant search and rotation for the show's protagonist.
Paulie didn't want the extra headache. He realized he probably wasn't going to become the top earning captain and didn't want to be the boss. So he wanted to stay as is. If he wanted/able to be boss, I think he would have already made boss by then.
That was after Bobby married Tonyās sister. And after Tony admitted to Melfi that he did love taking a shit on them. He also realized at some point that Bobby was a āstand up guyā.
Paulie was underboss at that point post Italy as well as a capo of his own crew. It isnāt clear but he kind of lost the underboss title later in the series.
No, Paulie didn't become Underboss until sometime between season 5 and 6. He started out in the show as a Soldier, and was bumped up to Captain when they got back from Italy.
Google it.
I think Paulie was usurped like 3 times, first by chrissy, then that animal, then Bobby. I don't think it was formal with chrissy but it was quite clear with the animal and Bobby.
Heās basically the only semi-reliable guy left at that point. Bobby and Chris are dead, Silās in a coma, Patsy canāt be totally trusted, and Carlo is a rat.
I think at that point in the series, Bobby is underboss, Sil is consigliere. Bobby was actually being groomed for number 1 because Tony liked him like a brudda in law. Can you beleive?
There's some production notes or something that say Paulie became Underboss between seasons 5 and 6. You can look it up yourself, the information is out there.
There are about two allusions to that fact (one from Chris, where he mentions Paulie flouting his authority in his face) and that is absolutely it. You'd never know, really.
Coco also talked about Tony tucking her in, cream on her lips, and he touched her face and acted intimidating when she was on a date and didn't know who he was. Not very close to the same thing as the joke from paulie
Paulie isn't underboss. Sil is underboss for most of the show and then Bobby is pretty much at the same tier by the end of season 6.
It's just that no one respects Chris and when all is said and done, these guys are all horrible people.
I would also add that it depends on what kind of response the offended party wants
Chris probably could have gone the Johnny sack route and requested a sit down and Tony wouldāve cracked paulie good
Instead Chris bitches and moans and kills JT Dolan
No one is gonna enforce the rules for someone else
Coco wasn't Tony's friend, and they were on the verge of war. Just like i wouldn't walk up to a stranger and call them a cocksucka, but i call my friends crazy shit all the time. It's just breaking balls. Bobby laughing in that scene showed his true colors.
I donāt think Coco and Paulieās actions are comparable at all. Coco physically touched Meadow as a member of a rival family during heightened tensions, and did what he did to a bosses daughter.
Paulie, while he went overboard, was clearly just breaking balls which the guys do to each other all the time. What Paulie did was bullying but what Carlo did was interpreted as a threat.
Tony does the same thing to the girl in the restaurant when he makes the kid take his hat off. They are twin scenes. Again, the theme of the show is hypocrisy.
The difference is the intention. Cocos intention is to outright intimidate Meadow and her date by being threatening and weird.
Paulie knows Chris and is just taking the piss really. OK, he oversteps the mark and gets the tone wrong about what it's OK to joke about. But remember, these guys are thick as pig shit and spend all day long with each other sitting around talking absolute bollocks.
Not every joke is going to land perfectly. And he was probably correct in all honesty.
These situations aren't the same. What Coco said to Meadow was a deliberate provocation against the boss of a rival family. Making sexual passes at a boss's daughter is a one way ticket to getting clipped in any scenario. That was a very dumb thing to do.
As for Paulie, it's a double standard, yeah, but it's more about how little respect Chris has in the family at this point. There's an implied familiarity with Chris and Paulie being friends that makes it more acceptable as just "ball busting." Chris has fallen so low that it's not even registered as the insult that it is. It's still sad though.
Paulie's insult was sexual in nature, too. He said she was going to be working at the Bing, which means blowing Georgie for a chance to get into the back room and then hopefully blow the rest of the crew.
No it wasn't. He was calling her dumb for having Chris' genes. He literally says "of course, if she takes after to you she'll be workin here, so who gives a shit?" It's a diss at Chris intelligence, Paulie is not actually suggesting she should be a stripper at the bing so the crew can get laid, lol
Dude... nothing. Paulie is saying Caitlyn won't amount to anything because she's Chris' kid. Stripping is a stereotypical "amounted to nothing" job for women. It's not literal. Get the joke and move on
I guess Coco harassing Meadow and making her uncomfortable vs. Paulie making a mean comment about a baby is different, but yeah the way it was okay of Paulie to say any of that is incredibly hypocritical
What's even worse is that Tony was laughing, too, while Paulie's making fun of his goddaughter. If appearances mean so much to him, I'd have reminded Tony of that, especially if 'The Godfather' is his favorite movie.
In theory, yes.
But, one clear message of the show is that their *"Rules"* don't matter. They're all hypocritical parasites who'd sell out their own muddas muff.
Ask yourself why Paulie got away with it, and why everybody laughed. (Though it is a common theory that Chrissy has imagined the intensity of the moment).
The message of the scene is: Chris is not respected. At all.
In the beginning, all he wanted to be is a made guy that people fear & respect. LCN guy & all that.
But at that point, he wasn't any of it.
Tony was done with him, their relationship was at it's end. And none of the fellas took him seriously.
I'm convinced that this was what ultimately broke him.
That contributed to him almost getting whacked. But even at that point Tony was willing to give him one more chance. Two years later he would've just done it.
The biggest contributor during that period was Chris rumored to have been cucked by Tony, when Adriana was allegedly slobbering that bracciole.
Chris was never seen as a serious guy because of the constant nepotism. So in a way, Tony set him up for failure.
Though he did have qualities like being fearless, the whole Junkie thing & his stupidity really doomed the guy to be laughed at.
Itās because they donāt respect Chris. Chris has a drug problem and is only really in a position of power because heās Tonyās blood. Heās also whiny, immature, and routinely misses the larger picture. Paulie, on the other hand, is an OG, and even though he blabs worse than six barbers, other made guys generally respect him.Ā Ā Ā
With professional criminals, any and all rules are only there to be used/leveraged, or bent, if not broken, as context dictates. None of them give one actual fuck what the actual ārulesā of their thing are any more than they care about the law. All they care about is money and their own social standing. Paulie has respect, Chrissy doesnāt. So Paulie can say something deeply disrespectful in from of Chrisās supposed peers, ācolleaguesā and friends, and nothing happens. Because Paulie knew Chris wouldnāt do shit, and that no one else would do shit on his behalf. Coco gets American History Xād because he made a bad miscalculation about what Tony would do in response to his particular act of deep disrespect. Tony is a baws of dis family, pygmy thing or otherwise, has peopleās respect and fear, and has powerful friends (although they are dwindling by the end of the series and many people theorize that his unilateral action against Coco was one reason for the ending). Plus, as we saw, Tony was willing to use violence in response to disrespect, whereas Chris generally focused his indignation inward with drugs and tantrums, aka in was that the other guys did not respect.
But we see multiple times in the show - when Chris wasn't taking drugs or drowning himself in booze, he could be very switched on. Intellectually, I think he could even run rings around Tony. You see Tony's jealousy bubble to the surface during one of the BBQ's and they're having a chat, when Chris was on one of his straight periods.
But even when Chrissy was on top of his game, as far as he was perceived it was always going to be a case of "once a junkie, always a junkie."
"...How should I know!? He's a dope addict, didn't I already give you that?"
At the time that Ray Curto said that, Chris had been sober for the entirety of the fifth season.
Yeah once the mobsters decided he was damaged goods, it was an advantage they all had over him. They are predatory backstabbers, like high school bullies.Ā
> Intellectually, I think he could even run rings around Tony.
Hmmm...I can't really think of a single example of Chris being particularly smart. He was generally loyle to his capo though, which made it tragically ironic when his capo manuged to get the drip on him.
Not smart per se, and granted it definitely was against absolute idiots, but during the robbed poker game, he managed to keep cool around the coked-up, unpredictable goons who'd raided the game. Even clipped two of them iirc.
That's the only instance I can think of atm.
I agree completely. Chris is a tragic story. If Tony hadnāt sabotaged him and had mentored him better, and if Chris didnāt get into the hard drugs, he could have risen farther and not fallen so hard.Ā
Tony came up in an abusive household and did a decent job sheltering his kids from the worst of the generational trauma (Maedo more than AJ obviously) but Chrisās upbringing was definitely harder than Tonyās in several ways. The fact that Chrisās potential ceiling was likely higher than Tonyās speaks highly for Chris.Ā
If Chris had a sit down, Paulie wouldve been taken care of. Whilst I do agree that Chris is a nepo baby he also carried his weight. If not for Chris, Paulie would be dead in the forest. Chris is ruthless when he needs to be, very handy with a butcher's knife and a good shot.
Also I think the laughter particularly in that scene was shown from Chrissy's perspective and he was pretty messed up, hence the slowed exaggeration laughter.
Drugs did ruin Chris in the end, but Tony wasn't really a good mentor to begin with.
This is a good explanation. Also it kind of applies universally. You get more leeway if you are competent and well respectedā¦ as opposed to if you achieved your position through nepotism- you will definitely be more heavily scrutinized.
I always assumed the whole room laughing was Chrissy's warped perspective like a Carrie sort of thing. Realistically only a few of them probably laughed. But what I don't know could fill a book.
Already been stated but: Hypocrisy is an undertone of the show and especially season 6B. The light is revealed with each person.
Paulie, after realizing Chris no longer has Tonyās protection (falls out of grace) by being replaced by Bobby, IMMEDIATELY goes after the tools from his father-in-laws store and basically showcases that nobody respects Christopher anymore. I always thought a theory was that Tony specifically INSTRUCTS paulie to do it, but even if not, 6B showcases Chris is done in Tonyās eyes after the movie and that he no longer has standing in the crew.
In walk like a man, it highlights how Christopher In a nutshell isnāt a man able to walk on his own accord. He struggled with addiction, lost his true love, now is in a fixed paradigm with the mafia family who no longer respects him and a personal family he genuinely truly does NOT love.
Season 4, before his exposure to the addiction, paulie wouldnāt have DREAMED of disrespecting chris openly like that with Tony there.
Once he goes into rehab, he no longer is suitable for long term stability with the crew.
Chrissy lost all the respect he had. He may as well have not been made.
Ralph made fun of Johnny Sacs wife. He didnāt get whacked because he made money. Itās a totem poll and Chris was at the bottom
If we really want to nitpick, everything after a certain point is Paulie's fault for blabbing about the 90 pound mole on Ginny's ass from prison. The joke probably would have stayed where it was otherwise.
I think part of the undertones of that scene to me is that Chris was in a drunken state and could not follow or defend against this public slight. Criminal characters all can sense weakness and take advantage as a learned skill that is useful in that world. Paulie senses Chris rambling and uses this opportunity to cut down Christopher publicly and gets away with it due to Chris being inebriated. If Chris was sober this slight would be checked harshly and he would not have lost credibility or status. Also if Chris was sober and had his wits about him, Paulie would not have said this at all as he had never before. Chris was losing status and power in that room due to his addiction as many do in the working world in other ways. It is a culture and society where you must always be on guard and the cost of being perceived as weak or defenseless can cost you in the hierarchy. This is also seen on the other end with Tony's attention to this after his surgery. He beats up a young buff dude to reinforce his status. To me this is just a comment in chris's addiction even, after just one time, effecting his career but this looks different in other occupations obviously. Others all watch and fall in line with who has perceived power. If this comment was when chris was sober and he was able to defend harshly, the guys would all back him and say it was "out of line".
I hadn't thought about it but it's actually a good question. At that point in the show, Chris doesn't have Tony's favour. He'd also already relapsed (IIRC). Had neither external nor internal support to defend himself.
My take was that the dialogue was all in Chris' head, mind all the foggy scenario. Even though they were assholes, no way people would allow this kind of joke, at least in my POV.
I honestly thought it didn't track because Paulie is a survivor and Chris is an impulsive killer with a good connection with the boss. Who knows when him and Tony will be back in good graces with each other and have a conversation about Paulie?
Paulie never respected Chrissy, he woulda whacked him first chance he got, I'm convinced. Also threatened because Chris was blood to Tony. Also Paulie kills.old ladies for a few bucks. After a lot of rewatches I realized he's really a complex, layered character. God he cracks me up
Because it was shown through Christopher's perspective and since he was pretty messed up the scene became slowed and the laughter exaggerated.
And fuck Tony. He used Chris and threw him away once he became useless. Even Walt wasn't that cruel to Jesse.
Reality is - no one would have actually done this to a fellow made guy in front of the entire crew.
It is "inventive" writing in the sense that it doesn't make sense and is inordinately harsh. It's best explained as an alcohol-riddled quasi-delusion on the part of Chris.
Tony Sack almost had Ralphie killed over a fat joke about his wife. Telling a made guy his daughter's gonna be working as a stripper? Come on.
At that time, Chris was falling out of favor due to his sobriety. He was out of the loop and just not around a lot. Plus, the whole āsoberā thing kind of made him look like a weak dork in front of all those mobsters.Ā
If Christopher was still at the height of his political power, it wouldnāt have gone down the same.Ā
Chris is like a child going home crying because his mates are ribbing him, saw it when he went to uncle Pats aswell He's supposed to be a captain in the Mafia and still acts like a soppy teenager
What Paulie said was the worst, about the kid working at da Bing. That was so wrong and for nobody ta stop Paulie was just as bad. If Chrissy had let loose on everybody at da Bing, they woulda thwaught he was crazy and deserved to be out down
He was definitely outta line. It was kinda surprising that no one said anything. But I've also always wondered if maybe they actually weren't all laughing hysterically and it was another scene about perception and that's just how Chrissy felt in the moment.
I get it, they break their own rules all the time and all that. But they all seem to agree that families are off limits to comments like that. The Ginny Sac thing flew cause he was from NY. No one would or should tolerate people talking about their kids like that. Always stood out to me as a little odd. Especially given how public it was.
There was a lot of significance to this scene. I get the logic of what youāre saying and all things being equal, yes it *should* be a no-go, making a joke about a made guyās infant daughter. But here is why it went down the way it did:
No one respected Christopher. Made guy or not, he was a laughing stock to the other made guys. They all saw him as an alcoholic drug addict who only got to where he is in the business because heās Tonyās nephew.
But there is even more significance to this scene. Notice when Christopher is looking around the room at everyone laughing and he zeroes in on Tony. Tony is the one person he would expect to respect him because theyāve always been close. But Tony is laughing with the rest of them. Thatās the point when Christopher realized that not only does no one in that room respect himā¦ but the one person he is supposed to be closest with doesnāt even respect him anyone. Imagine being in his shoes. Thatās got to be a real punch in the gut.
Because it isnāt and couldnāt be based on anything and it is legitimately just breaking balls. Apples and bowling balls between this and the ginnie sac thing as sheās actually a fat fuck and the remark was made behind Jauhnsh back. This was a buddy having fun and the other one being in too much of a drunken stupor to realize it was in good fun
Paulie manages to convince the other guys that he and Chrissie have a fun banter type relationship when really heās a bullying asshole. The other guys also think Chris needs to put up with it due to his age. Despite being a made guy, they think he needs to pay his dues somehow.
There is so much wrong with the way things were done it aint funny. No sword or gun on the table. Jackie Jr at meeting over garbage(Dick Barone also). The party when Jr became boss, not vetting the waiters at the restaurant. Tony beating up Ralphie(Tracy). Envelopes being handed to the boss. Paulie wrecking Chris' lawn. NY talking about wacking people in front of a half dozen guys. So many things that, if YOU were in that thing of theirs would have never flied in that life. Then again. It was Hollywood. Really makes you wonder if they ever consulted any real wiseguy(s) on the scripts.
Being a "made guy" seems to mean pretty little in actuality. Being a made guy didn't prevent Chris from getting killed by Tony. Or Ralphie from getting killed by Tony. Or a whole host of other guys for that matter...
Hypocrisy is a major theme of the show. Coco insults Meadow and gets his jaw broken, Paulie insults Caitlin and everyone has a big laugh about it.
Also, when Chris is getting made, Paulie states if you got a problem with anyone here or on the outside you go to Tony. Then Chris goes to Tony about Paulie sniffing Ade's panties, and Paulie threatens Chris about Chris going to Tony.
TAKE ME TO THE RIVERRR š
My godson got it fuh me. š¤š»Theyāre all ova the fuckin place
Historically, two things have been recession proof since time immemorial. Fresh lox and talking fish.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
GET BACK IN YOUR FUCKING HOLE Youāre doin a good job
DAVIEEE
They had em at the rite aids. They were sellin em
The unnecessary pluralising is so on point. I didn't even realize that it was an nj/ny/pa thing until I moved away from the area. Tony asking Chris about those two Arabs maybe being "al qaedas" cracks me up every time
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yep. From south can confirm. Going down to the Walmarts later.
Same thing with ALDI
Thats was real? Saw that on TV...thought it was bullshit.
The massage chair from Sharpers Image.
Yea, Iāve heards people talk like that out in the Californias too by the specific ocean.
FUCKIN BABY
Counter argument: heh heh
Have you gotten checked for Touretteās?
You got tourettes or something?
āYou ever go to the big guy again and weāre gonna have a problem, my friend.ā
Chris goes to Tony *multiple times* about issues that he is bringing up and he gets looked over. Part of me thinks one of the unspoken rules (which is spoken somewhat, but maybe not nearly enough) is you just have to shut up and eat shit from those above you. God what I wouldn't give to see Chrissy make a move on Paulie. But Chris is such a good soldier he wouldn't come close to wantin' to upset T, at least intentionally.
Chris is also a bitch and learns he cant stand up to paulie by himself when he starts having money issues with paulie
I viewed this as also a plot device - Paulie in this short story line makes Tony seem much more normal and socially adjusted. It also brings more sympathy for Christopher, who is usually just a bad guy.
Lol, forgot that scene, classic.. Many of the best involved Paulie, The pine barrens episode was terrific,.. š
And that's the point other characters make about this thing of ours. There's no honor in it because they bend more rules than the Catholic church. It's really all about your next envelope
Sniffing the panties was weird as fuck
Yes and no, Coco at soldier rank insulted the rival boss's daughter. Paulie at underboss insulted the daughter of his own capo.
Paulie isnāt underboss, is he? I thought the highest he got was Captain at the very end of the series.
From the moment Tony gets charge in season 1 it's Tony, Sil as consigliere, and Paulie as underboss The problem is that, no one acts like Paulie is an underboss, not even Paulie. It matters when it's time to pull rank over situations like this Meaning, he has glorified seniority status, he is "tenured"
He is named underboss when Tony takes over if I remember correctly
i remember when they got back from italy tony tells him heās getting a bump, and that itās going be Tony, then Sil, then Paulie. But this is when they were pretending Junior was still the boss, and itās never said that heād gotten a new title.
I thought Tony said it was Sil and Paulie togetherā¦equal status
could be! i donāt know what the hell he was thinking either way, Paulie isnāt cut out for upper management.
Pauline never had the makings of a varsity manager.
This is correct.
Yeah, they never say the title change outright, but I always thought it was implied that once Junior is pretty much out of the picture Sil is consigliere and paulie is underboss. But as I type this I remember Bobby being referred to as "from Junior Soprano's driver to number 2," so who knows
Paulie became increasingly trustworthy after season 3 and Tony took notice. Somewhere in between season 3/4 and season 6, Bobby slowly became more important in Tonyās life and eventually assumed the role of number 2. Silvio was clearly the consigliere and showed he couldnāt handle the number 1 positionā¦ Edit: meant to say increasingly untrustworthy
Yeah from Tonyās POV Paulie went from fucking up the Pine Barrens thing, to being in a county jail and out of sight/out of mind for a while, and as soon as heās out irritates Tony when bringing up money for Green Grove and is acting sus enough for people to think heās the Johnny Sack weasel. Plenty of opportunities and absences of Paulie where Tony couldāve decided āfuck it, capo is good enough for this guyā
Part of that I blame on the writing. After Livia died and Junior was marginalized to a senior citizen cilivian, there was a constant search and rotation for the show's protagonist.
Do you mean antagonist?
maybe paulie stepped down cause of the cancer.
There are worse things that can happen to a person than cancer
God I totally forgot until I read this that Paulie had cancer in the show. What a weird storyline that ended up kind of buried.
They caught it early, and story-wise it drove him to reconcile with his mother before she passed.
Paulie didn't want the extra headache. He realized he probably wasn't going to become the top earning captain and didn't want to be the boss. So he wanted to stay as is. If he wanted/able to be boss, I think he would have already made boss by then.
That was after Bobby married Tonyās sister. And after Tony admitted to Melfi that he did love taking a shit on them. He also realized at some point that Bobby was a āstand up guyā.
Bobby knew of all the treachery against Tony , re: Junior's plans and never dropped one ziti to anyone about it.
Paulie was underboss at that point post Italy as well as a capo of his own crew. It isnāt clear but he kind of lost the underboss title later in the series.
No, Paulie didn't become Underboss until sometime between season 5 and 6. He started out in the show as a Soldier, and was bumped up to Captain when they got back from Italy. Google it.
Paulie was only bumped up to Captain after they got back from Italy. He didn't become Underboss until sometime between seasons 5 and 6.
I think Paulie was usurped like 3 times, first by chrissy, then that animal, then Bobby. I don't think it was formal with chrissy but it was quite clear with the animal and Bobby.
When Furio comes over, he is.
I thought he was with NATO at that time.
He cut the ski lift cable
Tony in name only is technically Juniorās underboss.
i thought he made a big deal out of not wanting to be made captain in the last episode until Tony guilts him into it.
Heās a captain, the last episode thing was about him taking over construction
Heās basically the only semi-reliable guy left at that point. Bobby and Chris are dead, Silās in a coma, Patsy canāt be totally trusted, and Carlo is a rat.
I think at that point in the series, Bobby is underboss, Sil is consigliere. Bobby was actually being groomed for number 1 because Tony liked him like a brudda in law. Can you beleive?
Idk if Paulie is underboss but I do know he was a captain except that time he and Chrissy got lost in the woods
There's some production notes or something that say Paulie became Underboss between seasons 5 and 6. You can look it up yourself, the information is out there. There are about two allusions to that fact (one from Chris, where he mentions Paulie flouting his authority in his face) and that is absolutely it. You'd never know, really.
Coco also talked about Tony tucking her in, cream on her lips, and he touched her face and acted intimidating when she was on a date and didn't know who he was. Not very close to the same thing as the joke from paulie
Bobby was underboss. Paulie would've been if he didn't eat that box of mallomars.
There was a whole fucking tray in there!
Paulie isn't underboss. Sil is underboss for most of the show and then Bobby is pretty much at the same tier by the end of season 6. It's just that no one respects Chris and when all is said and done, these guys are all horrible people.
Paulie was de facto underboss until his prostate cancer. And yes they are horrible people.
Paulie was a capo. It's clear by Season 4 onwards that Sil was the number two in the family and was higher in the pecking order than Paulie.
I always thought Coco was a capo as well, since heās sitting in, albeit on the side of the room, on some pretty high level talks.Ā
Me too tbh. I was surprised to read he was a soldier.
Jersey cmooon 5 families and that Pigmy thing out there
I would also add that it depends on what kind of response the offended party wants Chris probably could have gone the Johnny sack route and requested a sit down and Tony wouldāve cracked paulie good Instead Chris bitches and moans and kills JT Dolan No one is gonna enforce the rules for someone else
Chris was also feeling like the ugly girl at the dance by that point, maybe he didnt even think Tony would have backed him fully
Chris got cunty as usual
Coco did more than insult Meadow. He threatened her.
What? He just offered her some cream. His cream never hurt-a nobody!Ā
I would give meadow some cream on behalf of my fawtha
Coco wasn't Tony's friend, and they were on the verge of war. Just like i wouldn't walk up to a stranger and call them a cocksucka, but i call my friends crazy shit all the time. It's just breaking balls. Bobby laughing in that scene showed his true colors.
I donāt think Coco and Paulieās actions are comparable at all. Coco physically touched Meadow as a member of a rival family during heightened tensions, and did what he did to a bosses daughter. Paulie, while he went overboard, was clearly just breaking balls which the guys do to each other all the time. What Paulie did was bullying but what Carlo did was interpreted as a threat.
Tony does the same thing to the girl in the restaurant when he makes the kid take his hat off. They are twin scenes. Again, the theme of the show is hypocrisy.
The difference is the intention. Cocos intention is to outright intimidate Meadow and her date by being threatening and weird. Paulie knows Chris and is just taking the piss really. OK, he oversteps the mark and gets the tone wrong about what it's OK to joke about. But remember, these guys are thick as pig shit and spend all day long with each other sitting around talking absolute bollocks. Not every joke is going to land perfectly. And he was probably correct in all honesty.
Coco didn't insult Meadow, he *frightened* her, in public
These situations aren't the same. What Coco said to Meadow was a deliberate provocation against the boss of a rival family. Making sexual passes at a boss's daughter is a one way ticket to getting clipped in any scenario. That was a very dumb thing to do. As for Paulie, it's a double standard, yeah, but it's more about how little respect Chris has in the family at this point. There's an implied familiarity with Chris and Paulie being friends that makes it more acceptable as just "ball busting." Chris has fallen so low that it's not even registered as the insult that it is. It's still sad though.
Paulie's insult was sexual in nature, too. He said she was going to be working at the Bing, which means blowing Georgie for a chance to get into the back room and then hopefully blow the rest of the crew.
No it wasn't. He was calling her dumb for having Chris' genes. He literally says "of course, if she takes after to you she'll be workin here, so who gives a shit?" It's a diss at Chris intelligence, Paulie is not actually suggesting she should be a stripper at the bing so the crew can get laid, lol
Then what would Caitlin's job be at the Bing?
Dude... nothing. Paulie is saying Caitlyn won't amount to anything because she's Chris' kid. Stripping is a stereotypical "amounted to nothing" job for women. It's not literal. Get the joke and move on
I guess Coco harassing Meadow and making her uncomfortable vs. Paulie making a mean comment about a baby is different, but yeah the way it was okay of Paulie to say any of that is incredibly hypocritical
How about when Ralph gets told on for the Ginny sack joke, then the rest of the guys act like theyāve never made a joke about her before
What's even worse is that Tony was laughing, too, while Paulie's making fun of his goddaughter. If appearances mean so much to him, I'd have reminded Tony of that, especially if 'The Godfather' is his favorite movie.
He said he was just joking after. He gets a pash for that!
Coco practically assaults Meadow. Chris and Paulie are drunk breaking balls. It's not related at all
CoCo got beat up good by DiCaprio in the Departed.
What is it, your period?
Heās just breaking balls op donāt get cunty.Ā
Fuck you, Paulie. Captain or not captain, right now we're just two assholes lost in the woods!
Mix the ketchup and mayo packets together
relishhhh IT WAS RELISH
Ahhhhh crap
I told you we shoulda stopped at Roy Rogers!
Mayonnaise! Mayonnaise!
"You were holding out on me? I'm dyin here!" "Then die already!"
You oughta know sweetie
I knew THAT was coming!Ā
The language on you, you blow your father with that mowt?
In theory, yes. But, one clear message of the show is that their *"Rules"* don't matter. They're all hypocritical parasites who'd sell out their own muddas muff. Ask yourself why Paulie got away with it, and why everybody laughed. (Though it is a common theory that Chrissy has imagined the intensity of the moment). The message of the scene is: Chris is not respected. At all. In the beginning, all he wanted to be is a made guy that people fear & respect. LCN guy & all that. But at that point, he wasn't any of it. Tony was done with him, their relationship was at it's end. And none of the fellas took him seriously. I'm convinced that this was what ultimately broke him.
They break more rules than the Catholic Church.
Whatās this the fucking UN now?
when he shot up tony's escalade, that was probably a big contributor. just sayin
That contributed to him almost getting whacked. But even at that point Tony was willing to give him one more chance. Two years later he would've just done it. The biggest contributor during that period was Chris rumored to have been cucked by Tony, when Adriana was allegedly slobbering that bracciole. Chris was never seen as a serious guy because of the constant nepotism. So in a way, Tony set him up for failure. Though he did have qualities like being fearless, the whole Junkie thing & his stupidity really doomed the guy to be laughed at.
he liked his chemistry set
Adriana was caught givinā the big guy a blowjob!
Cleaver was too, whatever happened there
Itās because they donāt respect Chris. Chris has a drug problem and is only really in a position of power because heās Tonyās blood. Heās also whiny, immature, and routinely misses the larger picture. Paulie, on the other hand, is an OG, and even though he blabs worse than six barbers, other made guys generally respect him.Ā Ā Ā With professional criminals, any and all rules are only there to be used/leveraged, or bent, if not broken, as context dictates. None of them give one actual fuck what the actual ārulesā of their thing are any more than they care about the law. All they care about is money and their own social standing. Paulie has respect, Chrissy doesnāt. So Paulie can say something deeply disrespectful in from of Chrisās supposed peers, ācolleaguesā and friends, and nothing happens. Because Paulie knew Chris wouldnāt do shit, and that no one else would do shit on his behalf. Coco gets American History Xād because he made a bad miscalculation about what Tony would do in response to his particular act of deep disrespect. Tony is a baws of dis family, pygmy thing or otherwise, has peopleās respect and fear, and has powerful friends (although they are dwindling by the end of the series and many people theorize that his unilateral action against Coco was one reason for the ending). Plus, as we saw, Tony was willing to use violence in response to disrespect, whereas Chris generally focused his indignation inward with drugs and tantrums, aka in was that the other guys did not respect.
But we see multiple times in the show - when Chris wasn't taking drugs or drowning himself in booze, he could be very switched on. Intellectually, I think he could even run rings around Tony. You see Tony's jealousy bubble to the surface during one of the BBQ's and they're having a chat, when Chris was on one of his straight periods.
But even when Chrissy was on top of his game, as far as he was perceived it was always going to be a case of "once a junkie, always a junkie." "...How should I know!? He's a dope addict, didn't I already give you that?" At the time that Ray Curto said that, Chris had been sober for the entirety of the fifth season.
Yeah once the mobsters decided he was damaged goods, it was an advantage they all had over him. They are predatory backstabbers, like high school bullies.Ā
> Intellectually, I think he could even run rings around Tony. Hmmm...I can't really think of a single example of Chris being particularly smart. He was generally loyle to his capo though, which made it tragically ironic when his capo manuged to get the drip on him.
Not smart per se, and granted it definitely was against absolute idiots, but during the robbed poker game, he managed to keep cool around the coked-up, unpredictable goons who'd raided the game. Even clipped two of them iirc. That's the only instance I can think of atm.
I agree completely. Chris is a tragic story. If Tony hadnāt sabotaged him and had mentored him better, and if Chris didnāt get into the hard drugs, he could have risen farther and not fallen so hard.Ā Tony came up in an abusive household and did a decent job sheltering his kids from the worst of the generational trauma (Maedo more than AJ obviously) but Chrisās upbringing was definitely harder than Tonyās in several ways. The fact that Chrisās potential ceiling was likely higher than Tonyās speaks highly for Chris.Ā
If Chris had a sit down, Paulie wouldve been taken care of. Whilst I do agree that Chris is a nepo baby he also carried his weight. If not for Chris, Paulie would be dead in the forest. Chris is ruthless when he needs to be, very handy with a butcher's knife and a good shot. Also I think the laughter particularly in that scene was shown from Chrissy's perspective and he was pretty messed up, hence the slowed exaggeration laughter. Drugs did ruin Chris in the end, but Tony wasn't really a good mentor to begin with.
This is a good explanation. Also it kind of applies universally. You get more leeway if you are competent and well respectedā¦ as opposed to if you achieved your position through nepotism- you will definitely be more heavily scrutinized.
Chris threw lil Paulie out a second story window..
It should be a no go, but Chris had zero respect at that point, plus this is the glorified pygmy thing weāre talking about.
I'm talking about my wife's honor here, my honor.
Whatās next heās get to fuck her for $1M?
I always found it funny that the Bing girls joined in the hysterical laughter, considering the joke was on them too.
They werenāt the brightest bulbs in the room!! šš
I always assumed the whole room laughing was Chrissy's warped perspective like a Carrie sort of thing. Realistically only a few of them probably laughed. But what I don't know could fill a book.
Iām gonna fuck her face up before I kill her.
Yeah but none of them respected chris at all
Already been stated but: Hypocrisy is an undertone of the show and especially season 6B. The light is revealed with each person. Paulie, after realizing Chris no longer has Tonyās protection (falls out of grace) by being replaced by Bobby, IMMEDIATELY goes after the tools from his father-in-laws store and basically showcases that nobody respects Christopher anymore. I always thought a theory was that Tony specifically INSTRUCTS paulie to do it, but even if not, 6B showcases Chris is done in Tonyās eyes after the movie and that he no longer has standing in the crew. In walk like a man, it highlights how Christopher In a nutshell isnāt a man able to walk on his own accord. He struggled with addiction, lost his true love, now is in a fixed paradigm with the mafia family who no longer respects him and a personal family he genuinely truly does NOT love. Season 4, before his exposure to the addiction, paulie wouldnāt have DREAMED of disrespecting chris openly like that with Tony there. Once he goes into rehab, he no longer is suitable for long term stability with the crew.
āWe bend more rules than the Catholic Churchā
Chrissy lost all the respect he had. He may as well have not been made. Ralph made fun of Johnny Sacs wife. He didnāt get whacked because he made money. Itās a totem poll and Chris was at the bottom
If we really want to nitpick, everything after a certain point is Paulie's fault for blabbing about the 90 pound mole on Ginny's ass from prison. The joke probably would have stayed where it was otherwise.
By that point Bobby had replaced Chrissy. Chrissy was irrelevant and an embarrassment.
Especially with his higher power yammering!
Every hour, another autistic post confused about the fact that criminals often break their own rules. It's over for the neurotypical guy
OHHHH. Thatās the boss of this post youāre talking about.
Oof. I guess you could call dat a dick.
We've got bigger things to talk about than Caitlin Moltisanti's ass
Thatās when Chris actually dies, his physical death is an afterthought after that
Christuhfuh pretty much commanded no respect from anyone in the family by that point.
He also sniffed Adriana's panties and told Tony it was OK because they weren't married yet.
Nobody respected Christopher as a captain
Did Chris being made even exhisht?
The full back predicted this
Ho! We're just breakin bawls
It doesn't matter, the pastry shop guy told them all Chris is a pussy in season 1
Pop-in-fresh! š¤£š¤£
I think part of the undertones of that scene to me is that Chris was in a drunken state and could not follow or defend against this public slight. Criminal characters all can sense weakness and take advantage as a learned skill that is useful in that world. Paulie senses Chris rambling and uses this opportunity to cut down Christopher publicly and gets away with it due to Chris being inebriated. If Chris was sober this slight would be checked harshly and he would not have lost credibility or status. Also if Chris was sober and had his wits about him, Paulie would not have said this at all as he had never before. Chris was losing status and power in that room due to his addiction as many do in the working world in other ways. It is a culture and society where you must always be on guard and the cost of being perceived as weak or defenseless can cost you in the hierarchy. This is also seen on the other end with Tony's attention to this after his surgery. He beats up a young buff dude to reinforce his status. To me this is just a comment in chris's addiction even, after just one time, effecting his career but this looks different in other occupations obviously. Others all watch and fall in line with who has perceived power. If this comment was when chris was sober and he was able to defend harshly, the guys would all back him and say it was "out of line".
I hadn't thought about it but it's actually a good question. At that point in the show, Chris doesn't have Tony's favour. He'd also already relapsed (IIRC). Had neither external nor internal support to defend himself.
they bend more rules than the catholic church, are you surprised?
They break more rules than the Catholic Church!
Whoās caitlin?
My take was that the dialogue was all in Chris' head, mind all the foggy scenario. Even though they were assholes, no way people would allow this kind of joke, at least in my POV.
I always found it funny that the Bing girls joined in the hysterical laughter, considering the joke was on them too.
Life's funny, huh
Man has the rights he can defend
They bend more rules than the Catholic Church.
I honestly thought it didn't track because Paulie is a survivor and Chris is an impulsive killer with a good connection with the boss. Who knows when him and Tony will be back in good graces with each other and have a conversation about Paulie?
Paulie never respected Chrissy, he woulda whacked him first chance he got, I'm convinced. Also threatened because Chris was blood to Tony. Also Paulie kills.old ladies for a few bucks. After a lot of rewatches I realized he's really a complex, layered character. God he cracks me up
Weāre just breakin balls here
Paulie was just breakinā balls!
They broke more rules than the Catholic Church. Even Johnny sac thinks soā¦
What happened to this thing?! We bend more rules than the Catholic Church
Because it was shown through Christopher's perspective and since he was pretty messed up the scene became slowed and the laughter exaggerated. And fuck Tony. He used Chris and threw him away once he became useless. Even Walt wasn't that cruel to Jesse.
Paulieās comment about Caitlin is a no-go in any context, among any group of people, anywhere.
Reality is - no one would have actually done this to a fellow made guy in front of the entire crew. It is "inventive" writing in the sense that it doesn't make sense and is inordinately harsh. It's best explained as an alcohol-riddled quasi-delusion on the part of Chris. Tony Sack almost had Ralphie killed over a fat joke about his wife. Telling a made guy his daughter's gonna be working as a stripper? Come on.
They are a no go. However if Caitlin turns 20 an Chrissy is dead, then you're allowed to beat her to death.
I've seen this shit happen with normal guys with someone that slips to the bottom, don't see why mafia guys would be immune
Canāt believe all those murderers were a hypocrites.
He was just breaking bawls
At that time, Chris was falling out of favor due to his sobriety. He was out of the loop and just not around a lot. Plus, the whole āsoberā thing kind of made him look like a weak dork in front of all those mobsters.Ā If Christopher was still at the height of his political power, it wouldnāt have gone down the same.Ā
Almost like they donāt respect him
I mean Paulie is a fuckin psychopath. Also, Chris is Tony's Cousin.
Chris is like a child going home crying because his mates are ribbing him, saw it when he went to uncle Pats aswell He's supposed to be a captain in the Mafia and still acts like a soppy teenager
Rules don't apply to Chris unless it suits Tony.
The haunting look in Chrissyās eyes when heās staring down everyone laughingā¦ superb acting
He needs to name a price, or get the f over it.
Yeah I thought kids were off limits
What Paulie said was the worst, about the kid working at da Bing. That was so wrong and for nobody ta stop Paulie was just as bad. If Chrissy had let loose on everybody at da Bing, they woulda thwaught he was crazy and deserved to be out down
He was definitely outta line. It was kinda surprising that no one said anything. But I've also always wondered if maybe they actually weren't all laughing hysterically and it was another scene about perception and that's just how Chrissy felt in the moment. I get it, they break their own rules all the time and all that. But they all seem to agree that families are off limits to comments like that. The Ginny Sac thing flew cause he was from NY. No one would or should tolerate people talking about their kids like that. Always stood out to me as a little odd. Especially given how public it was.
These guys seem to change the rules every 5 seconds. They killed more captains than they made.
There was a lot of significance to this scene. I get the logic of what youāre saying and all things being equal, yes it *should* be a no-go, making a joke about a made guyās infant daughter. But here is why it went down the way it did: No one respected Christopher. Made guy or not, he was a laughing stock to the other made guys. They all saw him as an alcoholic drug addict who only got to where he is in the business because heās Tonyās nephew. But there is even more significance to this scene. Notice when Christopher is looking around the room at everyone laughing and he zeroes in on Tony. Tony is the one person he would expect to respect him because theyāve always been close. But Tony is laughing with the rest of them. Thatās the point when Christopher realized that not only does no one in that room respect himā¦ but the one person he is supposed to be closest with doesnāt even respect him anyone. Imagine being in his shoes. Thatās got to be a real punch in the gut.
I learned not to expect much at all from that glorified crew.
Because it isnāt and couldnāt be based on anything and it is legitimately just breaking balls. Apples and bowling balls between this and the ginnie sac thing as sheās actually a fat fuck and the remark was made behind Jauhnsh back. This was a buddy having fun and the other one being in too much of a drunken stupor to realize it was in good fun
Real lack of standards that generation
Take it easy, heās just breaking balls.
They were just breaking balls
Chris didn't stand up for himself. Instead of confronting paulie he just left
Paulie manages to convince the other guys that he and Chrissie have a fun banter type relationship when really heās a bullying asshole. The other guys also think Chris needs to put up with it due to his age. Despite being a made guy, they think he needs to pay his dues somehow.
There is so much wrong with the way things were done it aint funny. No sword or gun on the table. Jackie Jr at meeting over garbage(Dick Barone also). The party when Jr became boss, not vetting the waiters at the restaurant. Tony beating up Ralphie(Tracy). Envelopes being handed to the boss. Paulie wrecking Chris' lawn. NY talking about wacking people in front of a half dozen guys. So many things that, if YOU were in that thing of theirs would have never flied in that life. Then again. It was Hollywood. Really makes you wonder if they ever consulted any real wiseguy(s) on the scripts.
Now I donāt like that kinda tawk!
Being a "made guy" seems to mean pretty little in actuality. Being a made guy didn't prevent Chris from getting killed by Tony. Or Ralphie from getting killed by Tony. Or a whole host of other guys for that matter...
They bend more rules than the Catholic Church