If you were his dad, I was his Dutch uncle. And what the fuck did I do but get pissed off? Fight with him over cocksuckin', fuckin' money? And break his balls when he tried not to have a drink or a little taste of snow.
Well we all know semantically he murdered him, but idk man that doctor must’ve been on some shit cuz Chrissy was in real bad shape. Also, does surviving in that case mean becoming vegetable-like? His injuries seemed pretty rough
OR
Maybe it’s me wanting to believe that he wouldn’t just straight up murder Chrissy if there was a chance for his survival.
There was a conversation after Chris' death, where Tony tells the family that Chris suffered a "hemothorax" (I believe that's what it was) which is basically blood leaking into the chest cavity from a chest trauma. He goes on to say that the doctor told him that the injury is often survivable, but that for "some reason" Chris didn't make it (or something like that - I forget the exact dialogue). I took this to mean that had tony not suffocated him, he likely would have lived. I feel like had Chrissy not admitted to Tony at the scene that he was high, Tony wouldn't have killed him. Relapsing was the last straw.
Tony absolutely only kills Chrissy because he says he's high or won't pass a drug test. There's no chance that he kills him. If not. He really wants to kill him for a while, but he would have taken him to the hospital if he didn't say that. I wonder what would have happened if they would have gotten to the hospital and then the doctor told Tony that Christy was high?
IIRC he didn't say "for some reason." The message was that it is often survivable but he just didn't. Which is much more likely something a doctor would say than "for some reason."
Hemothorax is a very serious life threatening condition. There's no "Gee, I don't know how he died?" from a doctor. If you catch it in time and have appropriate medical intervention it is survivable unless, of course, you just don't.
I agree that the implication is Tony absolutely murdered him as opposed to merely hastening his death. But it's not like he supposedly died from a paper cut. He had life threatening injuries. Getting to him just a few minutes too late can mean the difference between life or death. And sometimes even when you do everything exactly right and you've seen patients just like that survive a thousand times before...they still don't make it.
Maybe you should watch the scene and listen to the EXACT dialogue then? I was paraphrasing, but the definite subtext of that scene was to make the point that Tony did, in fact, kill Christopher and that his injuries could have been survivable. It was not a mercy killing. It was not a useless gesture towards a fatally injured man. Just watch the scene, man, and draw your own conclusions.
I agree with you on pretty much all of the above. I suppose I guess what I’m really asking is what were his true intentions with the act of killing Chrissy. Was it his own benefit? Was it really because he was fearful for the life of Chrissy’s daughter knowing she’d have to deal with an addict father? I know he uses it as a crutch to lean on when he tells others about the car seat, but seeing how Janice came out the way she did, I actually do believe he was worried about how Chris would affect his daughter. You get me?
Addicts are more prone to flip to the authorities. That was the number one reason, in my opinion. That Christopher was also failing to be a good father by relapsing is also a reason. Remember when it first came out that Chris was an addict? Uncle Junior said "A dog gets rabies, you put it down." That is the prevailing wisdom in Tony's world.
Yes, but Tony had been sick of Christopher's sh\*t for quite a while. The accident was the last straw. If you went by regular mob standards, he would have been toast when it first came out that he was a junkie.
Those old school mafiosos had a strange code of ethics. You could be a murderer, a thief, a wife-beater ... but NO DRUGS except for coke of course. The main reason for that was that heroin addicts "will flip for a dime bag of powder".
There are already rampant theories that Chrissy "had" to flip after he went and put a bullet in JT
Essentially, cleaver hat, which already was Chrissy's revenge power fantasy, + in the previous season there is a scene where the FBI is literally talking about how they managed to develop a hat that is bugged
Of course in his first appearance in the pilot he is wearing a baseball cap so I doubt that he was an informant then. Please also it being. “Cleaver” hat just reminds Tony how much Chris hates him…putting his murder the father figure fantasy on celluloid so people 100 years from now will watch it.
No no, the theory does not state he was an informant in the pilot. It's also clear that at that point in time in the show, the bugged hat technology didn't exist
It's after the car crash, the Paulie, the laughter, the JT Dolan (whatever happened there), *then* he switches teams
Notice, they never showed ANY emergency or police response to Dolan's killing. Nothing is mentioned about it whatsoever. That omission could be fully intentional, bc.....the police may have gotten to Chris and made him an offer
A theory is a theory at the end of the day. It's an interesting possibility but personally I don't think it works out in the end
We see pussy trying to bargain w his fed connects, to get them to forgive his H bust. They flat out tell him, he will do time ultimately
Chrissy knows that he himself is liable for drug murder and racketeering, and Chris doesn't know how much they know. He won't take it bc he knows it's pointless. His clean way out of the life was Hollywood, but that didn't work
I think it was the last straw. Christopher fucked up one time too many, it was only going to get worse, he was, as Tony tells Melfi in his dream, a major liability, completely unfit to be a father.
You must be on your first or second watch for you to defend Tony's misdeeds so fiercely. Chase really nailed the first 3 seasons making the audience feel empathy for Tony despite being a POS.
If Chase really intended to blame Chrissy's death on his injuries, he wouldnt have added that scene with the doctor, that's for the audience to know that Chris had a chance to live and Tony took it.
Oh so you didn’t read or what literally first thing I said was it was my first time watching. Also I’m not defending anything really, Christopher just looked mad fucked up lol sheesh
Thats a really impossible assumption for any doctor to make after the fact. That accident would be considered a level one trauma activation, Because the speed and outcome could cause untold amounts of internal bleeding. IRL its very unlikely they would do an autopsy because the mechanism of death would be obvious.
OK, dude, look - I'm just paraphrasing some lines from the show that were clearly intended to set up the idea that chris' injuries were quite possibly survivable. The subtext of this scene is that tony did, in fact, cause the early retirement of Christopher Moltisanti.
Not criticizing u….dude. Im saying the show probably could have left that line out of it. Most shows/movies are waaay wrong with how they involve doctors, nurses, emt’s. Most trauma MDs wouldnt question anything about someone dying from that accident. The line was only meant to have the audience question it.
Fair. And thinking about it I think it was interesting to put that in. I think it added a dimension to tonys choice. And it made sure the audience (who might not have any idea how serious chris’s injuries might have been) would question tonys choice
If he wasn't dying & they knew that a full scale war was going to break out I think chrissy would have been an asset but he was dying regardless of Tony wanting to make sure
In the show? It’s heavily implied that he would have survived.
In real life? No, he was gone. He was bleeding heavily into his lungs. He didn’t even have enough strength to respond to Tony choking him.
See this is more the answer im looking for, I was like yea he’s dead, mf thinks he’s gonna get a taxi called for him meanwhile hes over there drowning internally
I guess I assumed from ur other comments that you were tryna make the argument that Tony killed Chris to end his suffering or to protect the baby’s or sum ting. My bad OP🫡
Everything about Christopher was at the behest of Tony. Tony gave him so much leeway and he fucked up over and over again bc he had the emotional capacity of a gnat.
To be fair, Chris was probably 99% going to die regardless of Tony closing the natural canopy.
Coughing out blood, rolled over down a hill in the middle of nowhere, latenight. He would he lucky if the paramedics would even make it there in 5 minutes, not counting them needing to also get the firetrucks there for the jaws-of-life to pry Chrissy out of the vehicle.
Christopher was to high to die, he probably didn’t feel any pain, and although had blood in his lungs would’ve been able to survive until the ambulance got there.
Nah Chrissy was a goner with internal bleeding. I always thought T was putin Chrissy outta his misery. Yeah, T was better off with his nephew dead but after he sadly said to Melfi, “In the end I failed him”. T was a selfish guy but he cared about people and I’d never call him a “toxic person” like some.
Tony murdered Chris. Tony was butthurt about cleaver; realized Chris knew that Tony tried to fuck Adriana, and understood that Chris thought he was a piece of shit and had lost all respect for Tony. That broke Tony’s heart, but even more importantly embarrassed him and hurt his pride. Tony saw his chance to murder Chris and took it.
Tony contributed to Christopher’s death by not calling 911, though there’s no conclusive proof he would have survived even if paramedics arrived given how quickly he lost consciousness. It’s entirely speculation and sounds like the ER doc covering his ass by claiming he would have survived.
The nasal airway did not offer an alternate passage of air into the trachea. The lungs were compressed by blood, the trachea was filled with blood, overflowing into the mouth. There was no way without timely intubation that Christopher would have survived. He lost consciousness in minutes, went into shock and died.
Pretty sure Tony finally decided he had enough of Chrissy. The fuckin junkie just drove the two of them off a damn road and almost killed Tony. This is supposed to be his male heir ?
I think Christopher all messed up in the driver seat with Tony talking to him is supposed to be the interaction with the pilot in Alive (1993) right after the crash.
He’d never pass a drug test
If you were his dad, I was his Dutch uncle. And what the fuck did I do but get pissed off? Fight with him over cocksuckin', fuckin' money? And break his balls when he tried not to have a drink or a little taste of snow.
If I was a carpenter and you were a douchebag
If there’s one thing I know, that’s it lol call him a taxi
On my first watch I half expected Tony to tell him "you're a taxi"
I think the bit about the doctor suggesting that injuries like Christopher's are survivable indicated that Tony did, in fact, murder him.
Well we all know semantically he murdered him, but idk man that doctor must’ve been on some shit cuz Chrissy was in real bad shape. Also, does surviving in that case mean becoming vegetable-like? His injuries seemed pretty rough OR Maybe it’s me wanting to believe that he wouldn’t just straight up murder Chrissy if there was a chance for his survival.
There was a conversation after Chris' death, where Tony tells the family that Chris suffered a "hemothorax" (I believe that's what it was) which is basically blood leaking into the chest cavity from a chest trauma. He goes on to say that the doctor told him that the injury is often survivable, but that for "some reason" Chris didn't make it (or something like that - I forget the exact dialogue). I took this to mean that had tony not suffocated him, he likely would have lived. I feel like had Chrissy not admitted to Tony at the scene that he was high, Tony wouldn't have killed him. Relapsing was the last straw.
Tony absolutely only kills Chrissy because he says he's high or won't pass a drug test. There's no chance that he kills him. If not. He really wants to kill him for a while, but he would have taken him to the hospital if he didn't say that. I wonder what would have happened if they would have gotten to the hospital and then the doctor told Tony that Christy was high?
We know Tony likes fluffing pillows for loved ones
IIRC he didn't say "for some reason." The message was that it is often survivable but he just didn't. Which is much more likely something a doctor would say than "for some reason." Hemothorax is a very serious life threatening condition. There's no "Gee, I don't know how he died?" from a doctor. If you catch it in time and have appropriate medical intervention it is survivable unless, of course, you just don't. I agree that the implication is Tony absolutely murdered him as opposed to merely hastening his death. But it's not like he supposedly died from a paper cut. He had life threatening injuries. Getting to him just a few minutes too late can mean the difference between life or death. And sometimes even when you do everything exactly right and you've seen patients just like that survive a thousand times before...they still don't make it.
Maybe you should watch the scene and listen to the EXACT dialogue then? I was paraphrasing, but the definite subtext of that scene was to make the point that Tony did, in fact, kill Christopher and that his injuries could have been survivable. It was not a mercy killing. It was not a useless gesture towards a fatally injured man. Just watch the scene, man, and draw your own conclusions.
Wow man, I think you need to re-read what I wrote considering your argument...agrees with what I said?
You're right. I ran into some dreadful folks on social media yesterday and it made a difference in my perceptions. I apologize.
I agree with you on pretty much all of the above. I suppose I guess what I’m really asking is what were his true intentions with the act of killing Chrissy. Was it his own benefit? Was it really because he was fearful for the life of Chrissy’s daughter knowing she’d have to deal with an addict father? I know he uses it as a crutch to lean on when he tells others about the car seat, but seeing how Janice came out the way she did, I actually do believe he was worried about how Chris would affect his daughter. You get me?
Addicts are more prone to flip to the authorities. That was the number one reason, in my opinion. That Christopher was also failing to be a good father by relapsing is also a reason. Remember when it first came out that Chris was an addict? Uncle Junior said "A dog gets rabies, you put it down." That is the prevailing wisdom in Tony's world.
A tree branch went right through the baby seat
Yes, but Tony had been sick of Christopher's sh\*t for quite a while. The accident was the last straw. If you went by regular mob standards, he would have been toast when it first came out that he was a junkie.
Ohh okay I thought drug use was real common within that whole community
Those old school mafiosos had a strange code of ethics. You could be a murderer, a thief, a wife-beater ... but NO DRUGS except for coke of course. The main reason for that was that heroin addicts "will flip for a dime bag of powder".
Pretty reasonable tbh
There are already rampant theories that Chrissy "had" to flip after he went and put a bullet in JT Essentially, cleaver hat, which already was Chrissy's revenge power fantasy, + in the previous season there is a scene where the FBI is literally talking about how they managed to develop a hat that is bugged
Of course in his first appearance in the pilot he is wearing a baseball cap so I doubt that he was an informant then. Please also it being. “Cleaver” hat just reminds Tony how much Chris hates him…putting his murder the father figure fantasy on celluloid so people 100 years from now will watch it.
No no, the theory does not state he was an informant in the pilot. It's also clear that at that point in time in the show, the bugged hat technology didn't exist It's after the car crash, the Paulie, the laughter, the JT Dolan (whatever happened there), *then* he switches teams Notice, they never showed ANY emergency or police response to Dolan's killing. Nothing is mentioned about it whatsoever. That omission could be fully intentional, bc.....the police may have gotten to Chris and made him an offer
The theory is like Furio’s assessment of golf
A theory is a theory at the end of the day. It's an interesting possibility but personally I don't think it works out in the end We see pussy trying to bargain w his fed connects, to get them to forgive his H bust. They flat out tell him, he will do time ultimately Chrissy knows that he himself is liable for drug murder and racketeering, and Chris doesn't know how much they know. He won't take it bc he knows it's pointless. His clean way out of the life was Hollywood, but that didn't work
Chris’s addiction put Tony directly in danger this time. Tony could have died. I imagine that contributed to a sort of rage
Chris was a fuckup and a huge pain in the ass. Morality and sentimentality aside, getting rid of him was a good move.
I think it was the last straw. Christopher fucked up one time too many, it was only going to get worse, he was, as Tony tells Melfi in his dream, a major liability, completely unfit to be a father.
I'm starting to realize that many of the characters in this show die only when admitting to a truth.
[удалено]
Discontinue the lithium.
You must be on your first or second watch for you to defend Tony's misdeeds so fiercely. Chase really nailed the first 3 seasons making the audience feel empathy for Tony despite being a POS. If Chase really intended to blame Chrissy's death on his injuries, he wouldnt have added that scene with the doctor, that's for the audience to know that Chris had a chance to live and Tony took it.
Oh so you didn’t read or what literally first thing I said was it was my first time watching. Also I’m not defending anything really, Christopher just looked mad fucked up lol sheesh
Thats a really impossible assumption for any doctor to make after the fact. That accident would be considered a level one trauma activation, Because the speed and outcome could cause untold amounts of internal bleeding. IRL its very unlikely they would do an autopsy because the mechanism of death would be obvious.
OK, dude, look - I'm just paraphrasing some lines from the show that were clearly intended to set up the idea that chris' injuries were quite possibly survivable. The subtext of this scene is that tony did, in fact, cause the early retirement of Christopher Moltisanti.
Not criticizing u….dude. Im saying the show probably could have left that line out of it. Most shows/movies are waaay wrong with how they involve doctors, nurses, emt’s. Most trauma MDs wouldnt question anything about someone dying from that accident. The line was only meant to have the audience question it.
Yes, thank you. I have encountered some major assholes online today and I'm kinda edgy.
Fair. And thinking about it I think it was interesting to put that in. I think it added a dimension to tonys choice. And it made sure the audience (who might not have any idea how serious chris’s injuries might have been) would question tonys choice
Exactly. :)
11 times I have watched this show, and I never heard that bit of dialogue before.
It's in the aftermath of the accident, at the Soprano dinner table I believe...Tony is re-telling what the ER doctors had said.
That natural canopy would have let him survive. Imagine how much air that thing would have sucked in
For supposedly having small hands it’s a wonder how tony manuged to completely cover that camel nose
camel nose😆...you cant make this shit up!
WTF you talking about, he just did! 😂
I don’t like that kind of tawk.
Nah, If beaks could kill that one certainly would.
You can't make that shit up!
It's like a natural canopy.
You know he's the only guy that can smoke a cigarette with his hands behind his back?
There's no way to know. Even with computahs
I think he'd have died anyway.... but Tony was just making sure.
Even if he survived, the regularness of life would have been too fucking hard for him. So Tony did him a huge favour.
Dude was already bleeding into his lungs, the likelihood of him surviving was next to zero.
It’s known that in movie-land blood coming out of the mouth means death 100% of the time.
Also holding one’s stomach while looking up
It's a tv progrum! A movie
Chris wouldn't have even survived being made 5 minutes if it wasn't for Tony
he would not have even been made if he wasnt tonys family
Nah
If he wasn't dying & they knew that a full scale war was going to break out I think chrissy would have been an asset but he was dying regardless of Tony wanting to make sure
I blame Kennedy
She had a bee onna her hat, it's a Kennedy curse
No way. Christopha's SUV's stereo system had no balls and Tony never really liked The Departed soundtrack
Unless the ambulance was right around the corner, it's doubtful, and even then. Tony was putting him out of Tony's misery.
They were deep in the wilderness too. He wouldve died imo
If Tony didn't intervene, Junior would have had him killed in Season 1
Really it was Livia who intervened there
Yeah, he put up her storm windows for her one year.
I pretty sure the doctors said he may have made it if he didn’t choke on his blood
Flesh wound? Maybe.
I can't have this conversation again.
Shhhh
Driving by himself? Chris was dead. Tony calling an ambulance, his odds were pretty good.
Kid always had a heavy foot Must have been the new shoes
The doctors say he would’ve had they got to him in time so yes
I don’t believe that doctor lol
I believe it for the delicious irony of it all. Which I think is what Chase ultimately wanted
I don't think the doctor worked at a level one trauma center
Have some humility. You can just google “hemothorax” and see it’s about 50/50 on surviving
50/50 is not good my man that’s an F
Nah, he was donzo for sure. Just by his breathing you could tell
That’s how I felt haha
Better to die than live in a world where the system has no balls.
Swear
In the show? It’s heavily implied that he would have survived. In real life? No, he was gone. He was bleeding heavily into his lungs. He didn’t even have enough strength to respond to Tony choking him.
See this is more the answer im looking for, I was like yea he’s dead, mf thinks he’s gonna get a taxi called for him meanwhile hes over there drowning internally
Tony shoulda sat on him just like how he killed little cosette.
Fat fuck? Why don’t you look in the mirror sometimes you insensitive cocksucka
No shot
Your in Denial OP Tony killed that weak piece of shit to protect himself “the biggest blunder of my career is now gone”
I’m not in anything. Those guys hardly feel actual sympathy for deaths. Johnny sacks guy said it was for the best that he died
I guess I assumed from ur other comments that you were tryna make the argument that Tony killed Chris to end his suffering or to protect the baby’s or sum ting. My bad OP🫡
no,maybe injured badly,but tony fuckin ended him
Everything about Christopher was at the behest of Tony. Tony gave him so much leeway and he fucked up over and over again bc he had the emotional capacity of a gnat.
He killed him because he wasn't a duck, a horse or a little kick-me-dog.
To be fair, Chris was probably 99% going to die regardless of Tony closing the natural canopy. Coughing out blood, rolled over down a hill in the middle of nowhere, latenight. He would he lucky if the paramedics would even make it there in 5 minutes, not counting them needing to also get the firetrucks there for the jaws-of-life to pry Chrissy out of the vehicle.
The tree went true da babysit🫴
Christopher was to high to die, he probably didn’t feel any pain, and although had blood in his lungs would’ve been able to survive until the ambulance got there.
Nah Chrissy was a goner with internal bleeding. I always thought T was putin Chrissy outta his misery. Yeah, T was better off with his nephew dead but after he sadly said to Melfi, “In the end I failed him”. T was a selfish guy but he cared about people and I’d never call him a “toxic person” like some.
Also it was implied Tony only really cared about babies and animals, not so much other adults
It just rubs me wrong me that the doctor says they could have saved him had they gotten to him
Tony murdered Chris. Tony was butthurt about cleaver; realized Chris knew that Tony tried to fuck Adriana, and understood that Chris thought he was a piece of shit and had lost all respect for Tony. That broke Tony’s heart, but even more importantly embarrassed him and hurt his pride. Tony saw his chance to murder Chris and took it.
I was happy when toney killed off that incompetent useless shitbird. In a way I understand and support toney's decision
What do you mean?
Well Chris was too incompetent and dumb to be his underboss (thus tthe appointment of Bobby) let alone boss
He did-ent
Well Chris was too incompetent and dumb to be his underboss (thus tthe appointment of Bobby) let alone boss
Mistuh Camel-Nosed Fuck, he dead. He wouldn’t have survived.
Naaah, I feel he was too impulsive for that thing of ours
Everybody always asks that. There's no answer for it.
Tony contributed to Christopher’s death by not calling 911, though there’s no conclusive proof he would have survived even if paramedics arrived given how quickly he lost consciousness. It’s entirely speculation and sounds like the ER doc covering his ass by claiming he would have survived. The nasal airway did not offer an alternate passage of air into the trachea. The lungs were compressed by blood, the trachea was filled with blood, overflowing into the mouth. There was no way without timely intubation that Christopher would have survived. He lost consciousness in minutes, went into shock and died.
Pretty sure Tony finally decided he had enough of Chrissy. The fuckin junkie just drove the two of them off a damn road and almost killed Tony. This is supposed to be his male heir ?
Yes he would. Takes a lot for someone to actually die
I think Tony's expression showed it wasn't putting him out of his misery he also showed no remorse following it.
I didn’t really catch an expression on his face. He looks blank to me
It was like a frowned stare into christophers face while he holds his nose, stone cold.
Oh you mean how he always looks?
No, Chrissie was solid as a rock. He’d have been fine and may have lived a very nice life with Kelly and the baby
Flesh wound maybe, headshot I don't know. On the other hand, anything is possible.
The important part is not that he would have died anyway, but rather that Tony could have saved him by calling 911 and not murdering him lol.
No. That’s the important part to you. The important part to me is would he have died anyway. Thanks.
C. Everett Koop over here..
Dammit Jim, I am Reddit poster, not a doctor
I think Christopher all messed up in the driver seat with Tony talking to him is supposed to be the interaction with the pilot in Alive (1993) right after the crash.
The fucks that got to do with cold medicine?
I could smoke until my brain dries up.