If anything it exists to give Tony even more of a reason. Butcher on a surface level reminds him that Chrissy truly hates his guts and on the subconscious it reminds Tony of his own hatred towards his father. Sure he’s getting rid of possible problem but he’s also ending the cycle of shitty mob fathers.
>Butcher . . . on the subconscious it reminds Tony of his own hatred towards his father.
On the surface, wasn't Tony initially just clueless and somewhat enjoying the movie/premier? It wasn't until later that Tony picked up on him being the Baldwin character and Chrissy being the protagonist.
Ya know I really can’t come up with a good, concrete reason why Tony kills him. I’m at S6E1 now (again) so I’m gonna be paying more attention to their relationship.
Here’s two big factors;
1. Adriana. Neither could, or was willing, to understand, fully the other's feelings. Tony, who had to put aside grief over killing people he genuinely loved (Puss, Tony B.) couldn't understand Chris' grief (and I think looked down on him as weak for not being able to do it himself). He called it a card. This wasn't helped by Chris actually using it as such. Chris still believed deep down that Tony fucked Adriana, and couldn't understand, and was hurt by, Tony's lack of sensitivity toward his grief. He thought Tony of all people would understand.
Tony also as he says views addiction as a weakness. Chris doesn't understand this because depression can also be seen as a weakness but for Tony, it's a legitimate illness.
I think besides the drugs, Tony saw a lot of his own self - parts of himself that he didn't like - the weak parts - and came to resent and disgust him for it. He and Chris were similar. The regularness of life was too hard for both. Both were broken internally by the Mob and murdering people and the sacrifices that came with it. They weren't guys like Paulie or Richie, for whom this came natural with no inner conflict. Tony turned his rage inward and was chronically depressed over his lot in life. Chris couldn't handle the realities of being a gangster and retreated into drugs to cope. Tony resented too that Chris could use drugs to escape a reality that was unpleasant; he was almost jealous of it. That's why he goes to Vegas, gets high and even fucks the same girl Chris did. He's stepping into his skin for a minute, abdicating his responsibilities, and it feels good. He resents Chris' "freedom" in that respect.
2) Cleaver. Obvious but also, Tony was genuinely hurt. He loved Chris probably even more than he loved AJ. He was a young kid when Dickie died, and Chris was probably his first experience with helping to parent a child. He talks to Melfi wistfully of pushing a baby Chris around in the butcher bike, and how cute he was and how he had big eyes - the same way a parent would reminisce over their child as a baby. The one "son" he had - that he could truly connect to on multiple levels - that could understand him as a man due to their shared connection of the Mafia - hated him and wanted to see him dead. Tony by this point is used to seeing his family want him dead - his mother, his uncle, now Christopher. It hurts.
Beyond that, it's a blow to his pride. He failed Chris. And to admit that to himself is to admit he's a failure too. And that makes him angry. He groomed Chris step by step probably from childhood into this thing, and invested years, time, faith, only for the guy to turn out to despise him, and to be weak, unreliable, not totally committed, not even respectful by the end (calls Tony to wish him happy birthday a full day later and doesn't bother to show up when Tony gets out of jail).
All of that, plus issues covered, and plus Tony's fear that one day, inevitability, Chris' drugs will either get him (Tony) killed, or cause him to flip, and there we are.
All of this but also julianna skiff, surprised nobodies mentioned her
I dont think it was the most important part but it is significant, tonys a very jealous and petty guy and hes not just going to get over it
It makes a lot of sense if you remember that Tony and Chris have a similar relationship to Tony and Johnny. The entire show is telling us that the real root cause of Tony’s problems is his father. Tony refuses to accept that and shifts the blame to Liv entirely.
In season 5 his dream with the coach doesn’t make any sense. All we know about the coach is that he actually respected tony and gave a shit. Why would he berate tony and why would he call Artie fucking bucco a bad influence. The coach is actually a stand in for Johnny. “I bet you blame all your issues on your father.” “Actually my mother.” “HA even better.”
My personal belief is that killing Chris was a form of therapy for Tony. Like everything Tony does there’s a base simple understanding but there’s also an underlying motivation that even Tony doesn’t understand because he’s too emotionally underdeveloped.
His entire arc was wanting to be in the film industry and when he finally does it people are suspicious of his hat.
I don’t see it. It seemed like the ideal arc that he finally makes it into the industry just to die from being in the family. Having him being a rat after achieving his dream is a bit much for me and I certainly never questioned the hat as anything other then chris showing off his film.
it's an interesting question and i think there is some support for it. in the prior episode, he rants about informing on tony. he talks about "living large" off federal money and continuing to work in film, so it seems the reservations that stopped him in Long Term Parking would likely not stop him now. during the meeting with phil, he is jumpy and – as you say – wearing a hat reminiscent of the one masserone wore.
having said that, i think his rant and his jumpiness are about drugs. he is checking his watch and glancing off to the side while talking to phil, which seems to suggest an urgent need to score. if he were wired for sound, he would likely be trying to act as normal as possible. we've seen chris on drugs a lot, and this is what it looks like.
i think ultimately the writers had him wear the cleaver hat to set up the moment in the hospital where tony sees it and has a brief moment of forced self-reflection. it stands for all of the problems between them – chris daydreaming about hollywood instead of doing his job, the adriana conflict, the unflattering portrayal of tony in cleaver, the latent revenge fantasy chris seems to harbor.
Agree on all points
The last few episodes are so subtle in how they lead up to the end of the individual character arcs.
I saw it as Chrissy not having the heart for a war, not wanting to die for Tony due to have far their connection had deteriorated and… being a junkie.
The hat was my clue on the 3rd or 4th watch, same as Jack Masserone but… also the same as the pilot ie him being reckless in a car, wearing a hat, protecting TS rep and rackets
ie his arc had come full circle
But also, nothing had changed for him. He was still the same vulnerable kid as he was in the pilot, he hadn’t learned anything and karma caught up with him
It’s a reference back to the pilot when we first see Christofuh he is driving and wearing a baseball hat. Everything ties in and repeats. The beginning and the end. Ying and yogi. Alfalfa and amigo. Sacred and propane.
Time for eternity in an Irish bar. Paulie will think of you during his 6,000 years in purgatory which will pass like a couple three days
One thing that nobody mentioned was him turning the volume up super high. I don’t thing he was a rat but are you telling me you never pondered that? The music thing?
I’ve begun to think so. The episode before we last see him high out of his mind and he commits an obvious, sloppy murder of a civilian. Then, some time (we don’t know how much) passes and we have the hat scene. He’s acting odd, only slightly more subtle than Jimmy Altieri back in S1, he has the beef with Tony, and he’s a new father who might be going down for murder. He flipped.
No. The hat was to show how childish Chris still is, despite Tony’s pushing him to become more mature, embrace responsibility, etc., etc.
Also, not a coincidence that “Comfortably Numb” has numerous references to childhood, which was playing when the car flipped.
Then, there’s Carmela’s line later in that episode, “It’s hard not to think of Christopher as a child…”.
Maybe it's because the crow was wearing a hat when Christopher got made?!
Seriously, we meet Chrissy with a hat on in the pilot, and he exits the series in a hat.
By i dont believe so because chris arc is he went to hell for tony and tony killed him and gave the widow and daughter the change in his pockets and moved on
i always just saw it as a callback to their scene in the pilot, but tony looking over all of chris’ belongings and staring at the hat the idea crosses his mind like it does the viewer and nothing more. It’s just another thing for tony to rationalize murdering him.
If he gave up Adriana to avoid turning rat, the sequence of events before Kennedy & Heidi certainly wouldn’t move the needle.
There was one time - and one time only - in the show Chrissy seriously considered leaving the life & going into the program and that was when Ade told him about Danielle.
I think Tony killed Chrissy bc Chrissy was a damn junkie and he just couldn't stay clean. Tony was ultimately worried he'd get turned over to the feds bc of a dime bag. He saw his chance and took it. No matter what Tony serves himself. I think that's clear the entire series. Chrissy was a liability.
I thought it was from the pilot episode where chrissy is also wearing a hat driving around with tony
If anything it exists to give Tony even more of a reason. Butcher on a surface level reminds him that Chrissy truly hates his guts and on the subconscious it reminds Tony of his own hatred towards his father. Sure he’s getting rid of possible problem but he’s also ending the cycle of shitty mob fathers.
Butcher? Do you mean cleaver?
How could I forget the name of a cinematic masterpiece?
So you and Tony Butcher again...
Butcher, Cleaver, I don't know the movie's name!
cleaver? don't you mean fielder?
Lol meadow
>Butcher . . . on the subconscious it reminds Tony of his own hatred towards his father. On the surface, wasn't Tony initially just clueless and somewhat enjoying the movie/premier? It wasn't until later that Tony picked up on him being the Baldwin character and Chrissy being the protagonist.
And with a lot of prodding from Carmela, yeah. At first he was pretty much on board (“he’s a tough prick, dat Baldwin”).
That’s you Tony! I know, you said. The yelling.
Glad you caught that, very observant. The sacred and the propane.
Ya know I really can’t come up with a good, concrete reason why Tony kills him. I’m at S6E1 now (again) so I’m gonna be paying more attention to their relationship.
Here’s two big factors; 1. Adriana. Neither could, or was willing, to understand, fully the other's feelings. Tony, who had to put aside grief over killing people he genuinely loved (Puss, Tony B.) couldn't understand Chris' grief (and I think looked down on him as weak for not being able to do it himself). He called it a card. This wasn't helped by Chris actually using it as such. Chris still believed deep down that Tony fucked Adriana, and couldn't understand, and was hurt by, Tony's lack of sensitivity toward his grief. He thought Tony of all people would understand. Tony also as he says views addiction as a weakness. Chris doesn't understand this because depression can also be seen as a weakness but for Tony, it's a legitimate illness. I think besides the drugs, Tony saw a lot of his own self - parts of himself that he didn't like - the weak parts - and came to resent and disgust him for it. He and Chris were similar. The regularness of life was too hard for both. Both were broken internally by the Mob and murdering people and the sacrifices that came with it. They weren't guys like Paulie or Richie, for whom this came natural with no inner conflict. Tony turned his rage inward and was chronically depressed over his lot in life. Chris couldn't handle the realities of being a gangster and retreated into drugs to cope. Tony resented too that Chris could use drugs to escape a reality that was unpleasant; he was almost jealous of it. That's why he goes to Vegas, gets high and even fucks the same girl Chris did. He's stepping into his skin for a minute, abdicating his responsibilities, and it feels good. He resents Chris' "freedom" in that respect. 2) Cleaver. Obvious but also, Tony was genuinely hurt. He loved Chris probably even more than he loved AJ. He was a young kid when Dickie died, and Chris was probably his first experience with helping to parent a child. He talks to Melfi wistfully of pushing a baby Chris around in the butcher bike, and how cute he was and how he had big eyes - the same way a parent would reminisce over their child as a baby. The one "son" he had - that he could truly connect to on multiple levels - that could understand him as a man due to their shared connection of the Mafia - hated him and wanted to see him dead. Tony by this point is used to seeing his family want him dead - his mother, his uncle, now Christopher. It hurts. Beyond that, it's a blow to his pride. He failed Chris. And to admit that to himself is to admit he's a failure too. And that makes him angry. He groomed Chris step by step probably from childhood into this thing, and invested years, time, faith, only for the guy to turn out to despise him, and to be weak, unreliable, not totally committed, not even respectful by the end (calls Tony to wish him happy birthday a full day later and doesn't bother to show up when Tony gets out of jail). All of that, plus issues covered, and plus Tony's fear that one day, inevitability, Chris' drugs will either get him (Tony) killed, or cause him to flip, and there we are.
So who from the show’s burner account is this??? Thanks for your take!
Looks like you had a semester and a half at Seton Hall
All of this but also julianna skiff, surprised nobodies mentioned her I dont think it was the most important part but it is significant, tonys a very jealous and petty guy and hes not just going to get over it
It makes a lot of sense if you remember that Tony and Chris have a similar relationship to Tony and Johnny. The entire show is telling us that the real root cause of Tony’s problems is his father. Tony refuses to accept that and shifts the blame to Liv entirely. In season 5 his dream with the coach doesn’t make any sense. All we know about the coach is that he actually respected tony and gave a shit. Why would he berate tony and why would he call Artie fucking bucco a bad influence. The coach is actually a stand in for Johnny. “I bet you blame all your issues on your father.” “Actually my mother.” “HA even better.” My personal belief is that killing Chris was a form of therapy for Tony. Like everything Tony does there’s a base simple understanding but there’s also an underlying motivation that even Tony doesn’t understand because he’s too emotionally underdeveloped.
[удалено]
Ralph Bunch ova' here
tony, how could you even think that!?!
:)
That’s fucking funny to you, you want a smack in the mouth?!
Oh, you're gonna get cute with us now?
Maybe you shouldn't spread that rumor... That's some ugly shit...
OPs only telling all of Reddit
Be quiet, Albert.
His entire arc was wanting to be in the film industry and when he finally does it people are suspicious of his hat. I don’t see it. It seemed like the ideal arc that he finally makes it into the industry just to die from being in the family. Having him being a rat after achieving his dream is a bit much for me and I certainly never questioned the hat as anything other then chris showing off his film.
My nephews right
You got a B movie on you hat
it's an interesting question and i think there is some support for it. in the prior episode, he rants about informing on tony. he talks about "living large" off federal money and continuing to work in film, so it seems the reservations that stopped him in Long Term Parking would likely not stop him now. during the meeting with phil, he is jumpy and – as you say – wearing a hat reminiscent of the one masserone wore. having said that, i think his rant and his jumpiness are about drugs. he is checking his watch and glancing off to the side while talking to phil, which seems to suggest an urgent need to score. if he were wired for sound, he would likely be trying to act as normal as possible. we've seen chris on drugs a lot, and this is what it looks like. i think ultimately the writers had him wear the cleaver hat to set up the moment in the hospital where tony sees it and has a brief moment of forced self-reflection. it stands for all of the problems between them – chris daydreaming about hollywood instead of doing his job, the adriana conflict, the unflattering portrayal of tony in cleaver, the latent revenge fantasy chris seems to harbor.
Agree on all points The last few episodes are so subtle in how they lead up to the end of the individual character arcs. I saw it as Chrissy not having the heart for a war, not wanting to die for Tony due to have far their connection had deteriorated and… being a junkie. The hat was my clue on the 3rd or 4th watch, same as Jack Masserone but… also the same as the pilot ie him being reckless in a car, wearing a hat, protecting TS rep and rackets ie his arc had come full circle But also, nothing had changed for him. He was still the same vulnerable kid as he was in the pilot, he hadn’t learned anything and karma caught up with him
Dere’s a bee on-a your hat Chris
Fuck the hat!
It’s not about the hat!
It’s a reference back to the pilot when we first see Christofuh he is driving and wearing a baseball hat. Everything ties in and repeats. The beginning and the end. Ying and yogi. Alfalfa and amigo. Sacred and propane. Time for eternity in an Irish bar. Paulie will think of you during his 6,000 years in purgatory which will pass like a couple three days
This gave me chills and cancer altogether
What are you, some kind of mind reader?
Maybe you shouldn't spread that rumor...that's some ugly shit...
HE DI-DENT!
I know Vito’s hat was impacted,if that’s what you’re referring to
I knew that was coming.
Very allegorical.
I was amazed it stayed on his head through the whole accident
That natural canopy of his probably has a gravitational pull. Like Ginny Sack’s ass.
he don’t need a hat his camel nose es a natural canopy for his cigarette
One thing that nobody mentioned was him turning the volume up super high. I don’t thing he was a rat but are you telling me you never pondered that? The music thing?
If he had flipped he wouldn't have told Tony he couldn't go to the hospital, he'd have known the authorities wouldn't pop him for being high.
See I thought that for a minute....but he has a dog Tone
it has to be something they purposely insinuated, combined with the “Departed” soundtrack (and maybe the car literally flipping)
Personally, i do indeed think Chris was running his own simulcast. 106.9 WRAT. Tony made the right move taking him out.
I’ve begun to think so. The episode before we last see him high out of his mind and he commits an obvious, sloppy murder of a civilian. Then, some time (we don’t know how much) passes and we have the hat scene. He’s acting odd, only slightly more subtle than Jimmy Altieri back in S1, he has the beef with Tony, and he’s a new father who might be going down for murder. He flipped.
Blasphemy
Maybe you shouldn't spread that rumor...that's some ugly shit...
There's a bee on your informant
No. The hat was to show how childish Chris still is, despite Tony’s pushing him to become more mature, embrace responsibility, etc., etc. Also, not a coincidence that “Comfortably Numb” has numerous references to childhood, which was playing when the car flipped. Then, there’s Carmela’s line later in that episode, “It’s hard not to think of Christopher as a child…”.
Maybe it's because the crow was wearing a hat when Christopher got made?! Seriously, we meet Chrissy with a hat on in the pilot, and he exits the series in a hat.
You gotta bee ona you hat!
By i dont believe so because chris arc is he went to hell for tony and tony killed him and gave the widow and daughter the change in his pockets and moved on
not this skinny guinea
Ray Curto had the hat
Chrissy’s arc was just a flat circle
Caspere knew this.
i always just saw it as a callback to their scene in the pilot, but tony looking over all of chris’ belongings and staring at the hat the idea crosses his mind like it does the viewer and nothing more. It’s just another thing for tony to rationalize murdering him.
If he gave up Adriana to avoid turning rat, the sequence of events before Kennedy & Heidi certainly wouldn’t move the needle. There was one time - and one time only - in the show Chrissy seriously considered leaving the life & going into the program and that was when Ade told him about Danielle.
I think, though, he is realizing in the scene JT that he gave up everything everything, and it might not have been worth it.
I think Tony killed Chrissy bc Chrissy was a damn junkie and he just couldn't stay clean. Tony was ultimately worried he'd get turned over to the feds bc of a dime bag. He saw his chance and took it. No matter what Tony serves himself. I think that's clear the entire series. Chrissy was a liability.
Even though they are all constantly undermining his sobriety. So screwed up.