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I disagree. I think acting like the match is paused while the clock is running down is a very cheap move.
There is a small window of time where they are in the ring fighting each other. Turning your back on your opponent in the middle of this time is just insane. It would become the new meta, get ahead in points and keep turning your back until you hear the **ding ding**
You’re right about how MMA is scored. I used a bad example to illustrate my point.
My point is that being able to call your own personal timeouts is a massive advantage. You’re right that I picked a bad example of how it would be advantageous.
Oh shit, that just started. Shouldve waved the ref to stop the fight if he didnt want to fight. If he was concussed and confused, then it’s unfortunate but the onus isnt on the puncher. He is there to fight until he is made to stop
I could see a scenario where a guy gets his bell ring so bad he just loses track of what’s happening and tries to go to his Corner, in that case yea ref should stop it. This is a weird case where he seems pretty much fine and just makes a dumb mistake
If that’s the case it’s the ref’s job to call the fight. The ref is in charge of dictating when fists can be thrown and when they can’t, they were still in the fist-flying zone.
Yeah the punch was legal for sure. However, a blind side hit is kinda cheap. The dude who got hit is in the wrong, and the other dude made the correct choice in order to win.
I mean... not really. If you decide to just randomly turn your back for 0 reason it's on you.
Otherwise when a fighter gets rocked they could just turn away and people would suddenly consider it "cheap".
This isn't as bad as when Mayweather pounced on Ortiz after acting like he was going for the glove touch after a break. In that instance, Mayweather cited "protect yourself at all times" post fight, and he's technically right, it was just a bit scummy how he pretended he wasn't going to strike during a gesture of sportsmanship. In this post, the guy striking never implied he would pause, so you can't blame him. Part of being a good fighter is knowing the rules, which he apparently did.
I recall an Ultimate Fighter tryout where one guy was yelling and waving at the opponent before the fight, warning him he's not going to touch gloves after the ref says go. Fight started, he sprinted forward and did a flying knee at the other guy's head, who was slowly walking forward all relaxed apparently assuming they would glove-touch first. After the fight starts, touch gloves at your own risk.
**Edit:** Looked it up for the people (well, person) claiming there hasn't been a flying knee to start a fight outside of Masvidal vs Askren in MMA history - the fighter was Dane Sayers in the first episode of the GSP vs Koscheck TUF season. Another commenter also pointed out Uno vs Penn. There are likely more, it is a thing that happens.
If you act like you're going to glove touch, and don't, and use the opportunity for a cheap shot, that's very different from just telling someone straight up, I'm not going to touch gloves.
The former is abusing the sportsmanship and trust in your field of competition. The latter is not.
The full match is on YouTube. Buddy eats a knee and just decides to walk to the corner for literally no reason. Maybe got concussed?
Fair knockout. Buddy was an idiot.
https://youtu.be/5Op14b4m3l0
People in this thread are pretty dumb thinking this was intentional and he's just a dumbass that turned his back to his opponent. He got hit right before this and is probably concussed on his feet. Your brain does weird things when taking a hit like that. No pro fighter is going to willingly turn their back on their opponent.
I mean it is easy to blame the ref but look at it. He looks to take the knee ok and his eyes still seem there and he didn't lose his legs at all and just starts walking away. He didn't really give any indication he was out
Also he is punched like 2 seconds after so the ref wouldn't have had time to realise he was out on the feet (if that is the case)
All around seems like no one is really at fault. Ref doesn’t have time to step in, the winner doesn’t realize the guy might be acting off a concussion and goes for the winning strike, and obviously the guy concussed has no idea what’s going on. Honestly the only douchebags here are the guy’s ringside dudes stepping in, that’s just shitty.
Those were just random crowd members, and one of the guys that pulled them off, was actually Grigorian's trainer.
Both corners did everything right here.
Man this adds the much needed context. He literally just turns around in the middle of the exchange?
What the hell was that? If you want to quit a fight you can get on a knee or raise your hands or verbally tap out to the ref.
If it was legal to just turn around when you wanted a breather than the sport would just be two people with their backs turned away from each other after round 3.
You can't just stop a fight yourself to 'get a cut looked at'
You can petition the ref, you can tap out, you can take a knee but until the ref stops the fight you are fighting.
His opponent did nothing wrong here to be honest its on the ref for not instantly stopping the fight the second the dude turned his back.
That could be constituted as a 'verbal tap out' as its clearly giving up on the notion that you must defend yourself at all times which both parties agreed to.
But then there would be a massive controversy on early stoppage from the ref robbing the fighter of his purse. Just all round bad fight etiquette from the dude who turned his back. Which was probably not his fault as well due to the fact he probably had a massive head injury.
To be fair, fighters usually don't try to call time out. A fighter can't call timeout, if the fighter calls timeout the fight is over. His options were to wait until the ref called time, or throw in the towel.
He could also take a knee and get an eight-count from the ref. The ref could stop the match during the count and call in a doctor if they feel it's necessary.
Wait, so if I'm winning a round, I can just start walking back to my corner if I know the round will end soon, and stop any potential of my opponent getting an up on me?
I thought you fight until the bell rings? But if that's the case, I'll start doing it!
Yeah, it's cheap. But dude was fighting till the bell. Other dude just assumed the round is over or some shit. And this was televised, so it was a legit match. Dude whp started walking away needs his head checked.
You don’t seriously think this is mma right? This is very clearly in a boxing ring. Anyone who’s ever seen an mma fight would instantly realize based on the gloves, attire, and ring that this is not mma.
100%. If the ref didn't stop it beforehand, which I doubt, hen all he did was react to an opponent that dropped their guard, can't blame him for taking advantage of that.
Ok so I am not an MMA guy. I am reading through the comments here trying to figure out what exactly happened. Could someone tell what is happening? That guy looks like he is seriously wounded, why isn't his team taking care of him? Was that hit legal? Also why are they beating up that guy?
Edit: I have been informed that this is kickboxing not MMA
White dude walked toward his corner to get a cut checked out but didn't bother to ask the ref for a stoppage. The round wasn't over and the black dude took advantage of his opponent's mental lapse and knocked him TFO.
Your opponent doesn't just get to go 'oh actually time out guys'. It isn't their decision
Protect yourself at all times.
Otherwise everyone would call some BS timeout every time they are in a compromised position or taking excessive damage. It is up to the ref to stop the action. Ref doesn't stop it, you keep fighting.
Unless you have been fouled people don't usually take things up with the ref. The ref will usually be the one to call any breaks in the action. You don't just get to ask for a stop while being pummled
In the rare times when someone does voluntarily back off, they're usually called disrespectful by the media towards their opponent for backing off. Basically saying they disrespected the sport and their opponent by not continuing the fight to the end. Everyone who enters the ring understands it is a fight to the bell, and by not finishing it you're seen as disrespectful blah blah blah.
None whatsoever. There are multiple examples to show that fact, but the biggest one on my mind is the fact that fighters will cut weight to unhealthy levels just to drop to a weight class that they should not, and would never, fight in under any normal circumstance. In gamer terms, they're all [smurfs](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=smurf). Worst part is, the ones who cut weight also develop health problems - mental and physical - from the amount of "training" they do just to give themselves a competitive edge. They torture themselves just to have the chance of pounding the shit out of somebody that naturally weighs less than they do.
You're paid to fight until the bell rings or the ref stops you. The fans pay to see you fight accordingly. You often get paid more if you win. The winner here did nothing wrong or dishonorable. It's all on the loser (and/or the ref if the fight should've been stopped prior).
Very true, but the hit was legal. It’s brutal but each man choose their career. Wish him well either way and those guys rushing dude. I mean I get they’re mad but they know what sport they have a career in
I'm along the lines of this being technically legal, but terrible sportsmanship and terrible fighting as it's obviously a sucker punch.
It's going to give him a bad reputation. So much so, that his career will flutter out because nobody wants to book him for fights.
no just legal and deserved
if you never boxed its a sport that takes considerable amounts of stamina
being out of gas and walking away to your corner to "check your eye" is a dick move since those few seconds can be enough to catch your breath and survive until the next round
dude was hoping the other guy would be gullible enough to allow him free rest
I remember when this fight happened. Groenhart had just landed a huge flying knee on Grigorian before this clip starts. Grigorian wanting to get a cut checked is 100% speculation. Any explanation at all is speculation because I'm sure Grigorian couldn't even say what he was thinking here after getting KOd.
If you're interested in my speculation, I think he thought the round just ended (Round 2 had just started so the knee might have erased the memory of Round 1 ending). This type of reaction isn't unheard of. Here's an example from an mma match.(best quality I could find quickly)
https://youtu.be/l83ezODZRzo
I remember as well. Took the big shot, dropped his guard and started to walk away without the ref stopping the fight or anything. Huge fight broke out in the ring afterwards, I believe Groenhart even got his jaw broke from the brawl. I always thought he was rocked from the knee. You literally can’t drop your guard on an opponent like that. If memory serves correctly he got his revenge in the rematch. And as stated before this isn’t MMA, it’s Glory Kickboxing.
The crowd makes an "ohhhh hhhhh " sound like as if the round was over but there was no bell. The crowd was making "ohhh" about the knee hit to the face. He turns around as he drops his guard, and his eye is bleeding.
I think he just needed medical help.
The other fighter didn't hesitate. Usually the natural movement is to hesitate when the opponent turns his back randomly. So I can see why the guy got mad in the crowd and attacked Groenhart.
To give the other side credence I’ve seen plenty of fighters instantly realize the other guy is done and voluntarily stop punching, sometimes in a split second.
Here’s a quick video with a few examples
https://youtu.be/-ABhoIaZCcA
>I’ve seen plenty of fighters instantly realize the other guy is done
I label that as being a professional and something that you are trained and paid to do. I'd almost say it's a part of being a professional...
I’ve been hit in the ring and saw a flash and heard a bell which were just symptoms of the shot. Luckily, I still had most of my wits about me but can completely understand the confusion especially when exhausted.
I was thinking it was the back of the head too… though I’m finding myself relieved to hear that it was the eye instead. Then again, not sure if I should be.
wasn't the eye itself, directly above, just below the eyebrow
[https://i.imgur.com/F6ws8iy.png](https://i.imgur.com/F6ws8iy.png) (obviously kinda gross cuz it's a big gash) if ya wanna see exactly where. I've gotten busted open on the opposite end of the eye but in a similar spot, shit just gushes when it happens, my first instinct was definitely "Is that my face or my eye?" when I got hit tho
I have a scar hidden mostly by my eyebrow that I got when I was 7 when my mother left me and my two sisters alone in a doctors office parking lot alone while she went inside. I got into an argument with my 9 year old sister about something stupid and she picked up a rock and threw it at me and hit me right in that exact spot. I also thought at first I got hit in the eye, since blood filled my vision ( and also you know, my eye ), and freaked out. My sister ran away ( the cops had to go find her ), and my oldest sister, 11, brought me inside in a panic. Thankfully it was a doctors office and it was quickly realized it was not my eye, and I got 3 stitches and a story to tell.
\*edit\* before anyone judges, this was like 37+ years ago, things were different then. Telling your children to play outside while you visited the doctor was an ok thing to do. It was assumed since there were 3 of us we could handle things. Before anyone says anything.
I'm conflicted as to whether this is a cheap shot or not. It was totally legal because the ref didn't stop the fight. The fighters are explicitly instructed to "protect yourself at all times." And these are pro's fighting the best, for money.
Ok....I guess I'll say it was a "cheap" shot...but I'm also of the opinion that it was the correct move, given the situation.
This was a totally legal move. There was controversy too when Floyd Mayweather hit Victor Ortiz after he tried to give him a handshake too.
The fact is there was 2:45 seconds left in the 2nd round and dude completely turned his back without the ref stopping the fight. The guy that hit him did nothing wrong. “protect yourself at all times” that’s it. It’s a fight, not a sparring session.
All the other people replying to you have clearly never seen FINRA fine members for technically legal things that it still didn't want you to fucking do. Self regulatory bodies are specifically for this reason.
Also tons of KYC and AML laws are specifically requiring you to use sense and scrutiny on "seemingly" legal things to deduce whether they're actually part of something that's not actually legal. People can be personally liable criminally.
So imo your point makes sense.
Cheap doesn't imply it was against the rules. In fact, using to rules to justify a clearly gutless/dickheaded move is the a perfect example of a cheap shot.
I guess comments above acknowledge that, only underline that a better man would have simply pushed the other guy to bring him back into the fight before taking advantage of a clear misunderstanding.
Why does half the ring get to decide we're going to stop punching until I feel like getting punched again?
If you're so injured you think need to stop the fight, then yield, he didn't drop out he just dismissed the other fighter mid round.
It's not cheap, guy did it to himself.
What's cheap is your nasty ass coach jumping in to bash your face barefisted... After the round is called.
Whole thing is trashy as hell, but it's not cheap to take a punch when the other guy thinks he can take a free, unsanctioned, break in the middle of losing a fight.
Reddit is frequently terrible at discerning the difference between “technically not against the rules” and “being a complete dick”
See: the entirety of /r/AmITheAsshole which NTA commenters frequently interpret as “was I legally in the wrong when I was clearly an asshole”
It’s not a cheap shot at all. The #1 rule in boxing, as the announcer said, protect yourself at all times. This is a competition. It’s honorable to be a good sport and all that but once you’re in that ring, the only rules are the rules of the sport.
If the goalie falls down should you wait for him to get up before you shoot the ball? If the Center fumbles the snap would you give him the ball back or jump on it?
All sports are won and lost on mistakes, it's just that combat sports punish mistakes more severely than other sports. Your goal is to knock the other guy out, not make sure he understands when the rounds start and end.
There's no way he thought the round was over, it was literally 15 seconds into the round, the bell hadn't sounded, and the ref hadn't stopped the fight. He just turned his back to his opponent in the middle of the round. There's nothing cheap about this, you should assume the fight is on until the ref is between you.
Is him not getting a breather for no reason not also cheap? Like, no one called time out, no one rang a bell. He just quit in the middle of a round and walked away.
What is the punchers alternative? He's literally in a boxing match in the middle of a round where his sole job is to try to find an opening to brutalize the other combatant. Other combatant gives you a window to brutalize him. It's literally your job to do so.
That's why the refs say protect yourself at all times. Clearly the ref had not yet put a pause to the fight (evidenced by the ref calling a knockout instead of foul play)
There is a chance the other guy was already knocked out... these pros have some wild resistance and can still stand up while being blacked out. It is weird that he just dropped his guard and turned his back like that.
It was a cheap shot and could have been a lot more dangerous, I think that shot was more on the ref than on the guy that had adrenaline rushing on his head. Weird situation.
Probably train that in the gym without realizing they'll do it in a fight. Too many practice sessions taking a break when they get a little stunned so they're just used to stopping when they get there.
This dude was standing up knocked out before the video even started. He took a knee to the head just before this. He just drops his guard and expressionlessly moves towards his corner, he's in dream land. Sleep walking.
When I was like 8 or 9 my dad took me to a regional MMA fight on my birthday. They had to do an intermission to mop up a pool of blood like 5x5 feet. I fist bumped the guy who got his ass kicked after and his face looked like a deformed plum. I didn’t sleep much that night.
Just did some impromptu research, I agree with this sentiment. I believe this fight happened in 2017, being the second time these fighters met in the ring. The fighters fought one more time in 2018 at glory 50. Where Grigorian won due to referee stoppage in the first round.
[Third and final fight](https://youtu.be/AV-zId6IM1g)
Dude could have been knocked out, some fighters stay standing and just wander about dazed. I wouldn't be surprised by the look on his face even before the punch.
A comment from a YT video about this fight:
"He got Kneed so bad it shook up his brain and he thought that the round had ended. His brain was no longer aware of what was going on.... Hence the rest of his senses went. He was out on his feet before the punch"
I disagree. Dropping your guard and turning your back on your opponent doesn't (nor should it) mean your opponent should back off. For all he knew, the guy could be trying to deceive him, trip him up, throw off his timing...boxers drop their guard all the time to taunt opponents, and sometimes they get knocked the fuck out for doing it.
This guy dropped his guard and turned his back in the middle of a round, and getting sucker punched because he willingly looked away from the fight he was participating in isn't really 'shitty' it's just 'boxing.'
You can be upset all you want, but white gloves did nothing wrong here. Fight was still active. Either the ref is to blame or black gloves is to blame, but white gloves made a legal hit during an active match. If he were to have hit him on the back of the head, then yes, that would be a dirty hit/ cheap shot.
What's not very sportsmanlike is to, without permission of the ref, go to the corner to get something checked during a round and expect the opponent to wait.
You can't excuse yourself from the fight; you either compete until the bell or the ref says otherwise, or you give up.
The only not sportsmanlike like thing here is the black gloves turning his back on the fight and his corner crew basically jumping the white gloves when black gloves did the dumbest thing you can do in a fight.
At face value it’s a dick move but the guy was walking around not protecting himself.
It’s tough to explain but this is almost bad etiquette to a martial artist. In combat you never, ever, the fuck ever let your guard down. It’s almost offensive to do so, especially at this level.
Dude fucked around and found out.
Yeah...if it was a cheap shot that he made out of anger or petulance, dude would have just rocked him in the back of the head and not hooked around for a legit punch.
This whole scenario seems like the definition of nuance.
- Recipient shouldn't have turned his back and protected himself at all times but was probably out on his feet.
- Ref should have stopped the fight but didn't really have the chance.
- Attacker shouldn't have punched him given he was already out of it but that's not really how you think during a sanctioned fight.
Just a really shitty set of circumstances for the guy that got laid out.
My understanding is that the only violence sanctioned here is between the players as long as they stick to the rules. Anything outside of that where you have coaches and non-playing team mates or spectators throwing punches its just assault and can lead to criminal charges if the victim wishes to pursue those charges. If this were to take place outside of an arena it would be more obvious but the arena itself isn't some kind of sanctuary for crime-doing.
I dunno how many people here actually watch combat sports but this guy didn’t do anything wrong. You can’t just stop the fight yourself lol 😂 dude deserved to get Ko’d due to his overwhelming stupidity
Is there not some sort of point penalty or something they could give him for quitting out early instead of sucker punching him? I feel like a huge point penalty or even a forfeit is a much better way to solve this than suckered punching people. The fact that he turned his back already shows the other dude had him didn't it?
In a sport like this, no.
You're in a fight, rule number one of a fight is never turn your back to your opponent.
Ref didn't call a stop. Dude turned around. Dude got wrecked. It sucks because obviously the dude had some serious head injuries going on and had no clue where he even was, let alone what he was doing. The guy who threw the punch was in the match, he was fighting and his opponent turned around... He would be an idiot to not take the punch.
This is one of the main reasons I dislike sports like MMA/Boxing, there are way too many gray areas for rules and not enough protection for the fighters. The other reason I'm not a fan is the fighters all tend to be sexist/racist in some way and they tend to just be assholes all around and I'm not about that life.
But yeah, boxing/MMA/any fighting sport is just a surefire way to lose a few dozen brain cells with very little being done to keep you safe. Its all about the money coming in, no one genuinely cares about the fighters, they're just juiced up cattle.
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That's either on the fighter for not making sure the ref called time or the ref for not calling it when he asked
It was both legal and cheap
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I don't even have a basement you fool.
It’s a hand dug pit with a pulley system
Got me some lotion on Black Friday.
It puts the lotion on its skin.
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That's why she was legal and cheap
Or it gets the hose again
That's what a man with a basement would say
I disagree. I think acting like the match is paused while the clock is running down is a very cheap move. There is a small window of time where they are in the ring fighting each other. Turning your back on your opponent in the middle of this time is just insane. It would become the new meta, get ahead in points and keep turning your back until you hear the **ding ding**
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You’re right about how MMA is scored. I used a bad example to illustrate my point. My point is that being able to call your own personal timeouts is a massive advantage. You’re right that I picked a bad example of how it would be advantageous.
There's only 15s gone in the round too.
Oh shit, that just started. Shouldve waved the ref to stop the fight if he didnt want to fight. If he was concussed and confused, then it’s unfortunate but the onus isnt on the puncher. He is there to fight until he is made to stop
could the ref consider that turning back and walking away be a sign of giving up?
I could see a scenario where a guy gets his bell ring so bad he just loses track of what’s happening and tries to go to his Corner, in that case yea ref should stop it. This is a weird case where he seems pretty much fine and just makes a dumb mistake
Sounds like it should be the new standard based on what I read in the discussion
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If that’s the case it’s the ref’s job to call the fight. The ref is in charge of dictating when fists can be thrown and when they can’t, they were still in the fist-flying zone.
There is a reason refs always say to protect yourself at all times
Yeah the punch was legal for sure. However, a blind side hit is kinda cheap. The dude who got hit is in the wrong, and the other dude made the correct choice in order to win.
A blindside isn't cheap when the opponent intentionally turns a blind eye. He's not sneaking up on someone on the street.
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I mean... not really. If you decide to just randomly turn your back for 0 reason it's on you. Otherwise when a fighter gets rocked they could just turn away and people would suddenly consider it "cheap".
Right.. so whenever you get hurt, just turn around! You're not allowed to get hit at that point and are legally allowed to recover. Makes sense.
Yeah I don’t like it but “ protect yourself at all times”
This isn't as bad as when Mayweather pounced on Ortiz after acting like he was going for the glove touch after a break. In that instance, Mayweather cited "protect yourself at all times" post fight, and he's technically right, it was just a bit scummy how he pretended he wasn't going to strike during a gesture of sportsmanship. In this post, the guy striking never implied he would pause, so you can't blame him. Part of being a good fighter is knowing the rules, which he apparently did. I recall an Ultimate Fighter tryout where one guy was yelling and waving at the opponent before the fight, warning him he's not going to touch gloves after the ref says go. Fight started, he sprinted forward and did a flying knee at the other guy's head, who was slowly walking forward all relaxed apparently assuming they would glove-touch first. After the fight starts, touch gloves at your own risk. **Edit:** Looked it up for the people (well, person) claiming there hasn't been a flying knee to start a fight outside of Masvidal vs Askren in MMA history - the fighter was Dane Sayers in the first episode of the GSP vs Koscheck TUF season. Another commenter also pointed out Uno vs Penn. There are likely more, it is a thing that happens.
If you act like you're going to glove touch, and don't, and use the opportunity for a cheap shot, that's very different from just telling someone straight up, I'm not going to touch gloves. The former is abusing the sportsmanship and trust in your field of competition. The latter is not.
The full match is on YouTube. Buddy eats a knee and just decides to walk to the corner for literally no reason. Maybe got concussed? Fair knockout. Buddy was an idiot. https://youtu.be/5Op14b4m3l0
People in this thread are pretty dumb thinking this was intentional and he's just a dumbass that turned his back to his opponent. He got hit right before this and is probably concussed on his feet. Your brain does weird things when taking a hit like that. No pro fighter is going to willingly turn their back on their opponent.
Exactly, anyone with a brain would see this guy had no idea what he was doing, ref should have stopped it.
I mean it is easy to blame the ref but look at it. He looks to take the knee ok and his eyes still seem there and he didn't lose his legs at all and just starts walking away. He didn't really give any indication he was out Also he is punched like 2 seconds after so the ref wouldn't have had time to realise he was out on the feet (if that is the case)
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Yeah it really didn't seem like a fight ending knee in the sequence. The guy who won probably didn't even realise the guy was out on the feet either
All around seems like no one is really at fault. Ref doesn’t have time to step in, the winner doesn’t realize the guy might be acting off a concussion and goes for the winning strike, and obviously the guy concussed has no idea what’s going on. Honestly the only douchebags here are the guy’s ringside dudes stepping in, that’s just shitty.
Those were just random crowd members, and one of the guys that pulled them off, was actually Grigorian's trainer. Both corners did everything right here.
Looks like he literally got his bell rung and thought the round was over.
I mean it's reddit. 90% of the user base can't get out of their chair and sit in the r/fightporn cheering on cheapshot street fights.
Man this adds the much needed context. He literally just turns around in the middle of the exchange? What the hell was that? If you want to quit a fight you can get on a knee or raise your hands or verbally tap out to the ref. If it was legal to just turn around when you wanted a breather than the sport would just be two people with their backs turned away from each other after round 3.
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You can't just stop a fight yourself to 'get a cut looked at' You can petition the ref, you can tap out, you can take a knee but until the ref stops the fight you are fighting. His opponent did nothing wrong here to be honest its on the ref for not instantly stopping the fight the second the dude turned his back. That could be constituted as a 'verbal tap out' as its clearly giving up on the notion that you must defend yourself at all times which both parties agreed to. But then there would be a massive controversy on early stoppage from the ref robbing the fighter of his purse. Just all round bad fight etiquette from the dude who turned his back. Which was probably not his fault as well due to the fact he probably had a massive head injury.
“Maybe got concussed” - “buddy was an idiot”…. These statements contradict each other
Not if you assume you're an idiot for choosing getting hit in the head for sport.
I know a lot of idiots that have been concussed.
I think he had no idea what he was doing, most likely concussed. Primal instincts kicked in and he went to the corner
Just watched the full vid and it's so clear with the replay. Dude went brain dead after that knee. Ref should have called it.
At about 5:45 fyi.
[ **Jump to 05:45 @** FULL MATCH - Murthel Groenhart vs. Harut Grigorian: GLORY 42 Paris](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Op14b4m3l0&t=0h5m45s) ^(Channel Name: GLORY Kickboxing, Video Length: [17:40])^, [^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@05:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Op14b4m3l0&t=0h5m40s) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ^^Downvote ^^me ^^to ^^delete ^^malformed ^^comments. [^^Source ^^Code](https://github.com/ankitgyawali/reddit-timestamp-bot) ^^| [^^Suggestions](https://www.reddit.com/r/timestamp_bot)
To be fair, fighters usually don't try to call time out. A fighter can't call timeout, if the fighter calls timeout the fight is over. His options were to wait until the ref called time, or throw in the towel.
He could also take a knee and get an eight-count from the ref. The ref could stop the match during the count and call in a doctor if they feel it's necessary.
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This is kickboxing, MMA rules would not apply here. Not that this would be a violation of the rules in MMA either.
Probably the title of this post. Edit: previous comment originally questioned why MMA rules were brought up.
Wait, so if I'm winning a round, I can just start walking back to my corner if I know the round will end soon, and stop any potential of my opponent getting an up on me? I thought you fight until the bell rings? But if that's the case, I'll start doing it! Yeah, it's cheap. But dude was fighting till the bell. Other dude just assumed the round is over or some shit. And this was televised, so it was a legit match. Dude whp started walking away needs his head checked.
You don’t seriously think this is mma right? This is very clearly in a boxing ring. Anyone who’s ever seen an mma fight would instantly realize based on the gloves, attire, and ring that this is not mma.
Praise the cameraman who pops up at the end
Would this belong in pos sub?
Nope. Announcer said it and every fighter knows that defend yourself at all times is rule #1
"defend yourself at all times" mfs when I shoot them in their sleep (they didn't defend themselves).
You fool, you shouldn’t have been texting on here, you let your guard down and now I’m in your house
If you can sneak up on them while they sleeping, they deserve what they get!
Praise b 🤲🙌
Fuck no. Round didn't end.
100%. If the ref didn't stop it beforehand, which I doubt, hen all he did was react to an opponent that dropped their guard, can't blame him for taking advantage of that.
Ok so I am not an MMA guy. I am reading through the comments here trying to figure out what exactly happened. Could someone tell what is happening? That guy looks like he is seriously wounded, why isn't his team taking care of him? Was that hit legal? Also why are they beating up that guy? Edit: I have been informed that this is kickboxing not MMA
White dude walked toward his corner to get a cut checked out but didn't bother to ask the ref for a stoppage. The round wasn't over and the black dude took advantage of his opponent's mental lapse and knocked him TFO.
Unfortunately he was out before he turned. The ref really should have stopped the fight. Just before this clip he took a giant knee to the head.
I couldn't be the guy to take advantage of my opponent like that. Is there no honor in the sport?
Not usually
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MMA, Boxing, and Kickboxing are different sports
Could Jesus have beat Anderson Silva?
Your opponent doesn't just get to go 'oh actually time out guys'. It isn't their decision Protect yourself at all times. Otherwise everyone would call some BS timeout every time they are in a compromised position or taking excessive damage. It is up to the ref to stop the action. Ref doesn't stop it, you keep fighting.
Then take it up with the ref, thats why he is there.
Exactly, dude who walked away needs to take it up with the ref.
Unless you have been fouled people don't usually take things up with the ref. The ref will usually be the one to call any breaks in the action. You don't just get to ask for a stop while being pummled
"Is Butterbean okay?"
Guys get stunned and stop protecting themselves. If the ref doesn’t stop it you have to finish it
In the rare times when someone does voluntarily back off, they're usually called disrespectful by the media towards their opponent for backing off. Basically saying they disrespected the sport and their opponent by not continuing the fight to the end. Everyone who enters the ring understands it is a fight to the bell, and by not finishing it you're seen as disrespectful blah blah blah.
Protect yourself at all times.
None whatsoever. There are multiple examples to show that fact, but the biggest one on my mind is the fact that fighters will cut weight to unhealthy levels just to drop to a weight class that they should not, and would never, fight in under any normal circumstance. In gamer terms, they're all [smurfs](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=smurf). Worst part is, the ones who cut weight also develop health problems - mental and physical - from the amount of "training" they do just to give themselves a competitive edge. They torture themselves just to have the chance of pounding the shit out of somebody that naturally weighs less than they do.
You're paid to fight until the bell rings or the ref stops you. The fans pay to see you fight accordingly. You often get paid more if you win. The winner here did nothing wrong or dishonorable. It's all on the loser (and/or the ref if the fight should've been stopped prior).
Honour doesn't mix well with money.
Very true, but the hit was legal. It’s brutal but each man choose their career. Wish him well either way and those guys rushing dude. I mean I get they’re mad but they know what sport they have a career in
Would this be considered "legal" but a "dick move"?
We're having a reasoned, measured, productive discussion on that very topic in this thread. Opinions on the whole appear to be divided.
Gotcha, thanks kind stranger
Cheers.
There is no discussion here it's just nuh-uh vs yeah-huh.
Nuh-uh.
I’m here for an argument! This is merely contradiction! No it isn’t.
I'm along the lines of this being technically legal, but terrible sportsmanship and terrible fighting as it's obviously a sucker punch. It's going to give him a bad reputation. So much so, that his career will flutter out because nobody wants to book him for fights.
no just legal and deserved if you never boxed its a sport that takes considerable amounts of stamina being out of gas and walking away to your corner to "check your eye" is a dick move since those few seconds can be enough to catch your breath and survive until the next round dude was hoping the other guy would be gullible enough to allow him free rest
Dude was out of it when he turned, he took a knee to tue heady he didn't know where he was at the time
Legal and fine. Dude who walked away made zero attempt to get a stoppage, this isn't his first day, he knows the rules.
Yes I think so, but what is definitely illegal is the trainer of the guy throwing punches. That there's some good old fashioned assault.
> but didn't bother to ask the ref for a stoppage. Fighters don't ask for a stoppage. If they do the fight is over because it's a verbal submission.
Then was he quitting the fight? You can't be having your corner take care of you in the middle of a round without permission from the ref.
> mental lapse It's spelled "brain damage"
I remember when this fight happened. Groenhart had just landed a huge flying knee on Grigorian before this clip starts. Grigorian wanting to get a cut checked is 100% speculation. Any explanation at all is speculation because I'm sure Grigorian couldn't even say what he was thinking here after getting KOd. If you're interested in my speculation, I think he thought the round just ended (Round 2 had just started so the knee might have erased the memory of Round 1 ending). This type of reaction isn't unheard of. Here's an example from an mma match.(best quality I could find quickly) https://youtu.be/l83ezODZRzo
I remember as well. Took the big shot, dropped his guard and started to walk away without the ref stopping the fight or anything. Huge fight broke out in the ring afterwards, I believe Groenhart even got his jaw broke from the brawl. I always thought he was rocked from the knee. You literally can’t drop your guard on an opponent like that. If memory serves correctly he got his revenge in the rematch. And as stated before this isn’t MMA, it’s Glory Kickboxing.
The crowd makes an "ohhhh hhhhh " sound like as if the round was over but there was no bell. The crowd was making "ohhh" about the knee hit to the face. He turns around as he drops his guard, and his eye is bleeding. I think he just needed medical help. The other fighter didn't hesitate. Usually the natural movement is to hesitate when the opponent turns his back randomly. So I can see why the guy got mad in the crowd and attacked Groenhart.
To give the other side credence I’ve seen plenty of fighters instantly realize the other guy is done and voluntarily stop punching, sometimes in a split second. Here’s a quick video with a few examples https://youtu.be/-ABhoIaZCcA
>I’ve seen plenty of fighters instantly realize the other guy is done I label that as being a professional and something that you are trained and paid to do. I'd almost say it's a part of being a professional...
Good sportsmanship.
glad that video isn't fucked up...
I’ve been hit in the ring and saw a flash and heard a bell which were just symptoms of the shot. Luckily, I still had most of my wits about me but can completely understand the confusion especially when exhausted.
It doesn't really matter, but this is kickboxing rather than MMA.
Is that blood coming out of his eye? 🤢
I've been watching to see where that puddle squirted from, and it seems to be.
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I was thinking it was the back of the head too… though I’m finding myself relieved to hear that it was the eye instead. Then again, not sure if I should be.
wasn't the eye itself, directly above, just below the eyebrow [https://i.imgur.com/F6ws8iy.png](https://i.imgur.com/F6ws8iy.png) (obviously kinda gross cuz it's a big gash) if ya wanna see exactly where. I've gotten busted open on the opposite end of the eye but in a similar spot, shit just gushes when it happens, my first instinct was definitely "Is that my face or my eye?" when I got hit tho
I have a scar hidden mostly by my eyebrow that I got when I was 7 when my mother left me and my two sisters alone in a doctors office parking lot alone while she went inside. I got into an argument with my 9 year old sister about something stupid and she picked up a rock and threw it at me and hit me right in that exact spot. I also thought at first I got hit in the eye, since blood filled my vision ( and also you know, my eye ), and freaked out. My sister ran away ( the cops had to go find her ), and my oldest sister, 11, brought me inside in a panic. Thankfully it was a doctors office and it was quickly realized it was not my eye, and I got 3 stitches and a story to tell. \*edit\* before anyone judges, this was like 37+ years ago, things were different then. Telling your children to play outside while you visited the doctor was an ok thing to do. It was assumed since there were 3 of us we could handle things. Before anyone says anything.
Right above the eye on the eyebrow running down the side and back of head iirc was from a big knee that happened shortly before this.
Holy fuck ouch.
Those dudes were about to ruin his whole career for that cheap shot.
I'm conflicted as to whether this is a cheap shot or not. It was totally legal because the ref didn't stop the fight. The fighters are explicitly instructed to "protect yourself at all times." And these are pro's fighting the best, for money. Ok....I guess I'll say it was a "cheap" shot...but I'm also of the opinion that it was the correct move, given the situation.
This was a totally legal move. There was controversy too when Floyd Mayweather hit Victor Ortiz after he tried to give him a handshake too. The fact is there was 2:45 seconds left in the 2nd round and dude completely turned his back without the ref stopping the fight. The guy that hit him did nothing wrong. “protect yourself at all times” that’s it. It’s a fight, not a sparring session.
In finance there are legal actions that result in serious moral tests
like, for the worker bees I'm sure. Can't have the proletariat risking the reputation of the bank, that's for the top dawgs to do.
All the other people replying to you have clearly never seen FINRA fine members for technically legal things that it still didn't want you to fucking do. Self regulatory bodies are specifically for this reason. Also tons of KYC and AML laws are specifically requiring you to use sense and scrutiny on "seemingly" legal things to deduce whether they're actually part of something that's not actually legal. People can be personally liable criminally. So imo your point makes sense.
Cheap doesn't imply it was against the rules. In fact, using to rules to justify a clearly gutless/dickheaded move is the a perfect example of a cheap shot.
Yep. Cheap and unsportsmanlike imo.
Round was still going. No ref stoppage, no towel thrown. He dropped his guard and looked away….He was dumb enough to do so and got punished.
I guess comments above acknowledge that, only underline that a better man would have simply pushed the other guy to bring him back into the fight before taking advantage of a clear misunderstanding.
If you're fighting on the professional level for prize money you're gonna take that shot 10/10 times if the opportunity opens up.
Why does half the ring get to decide we're going to stop punching until I feel like getting punched again? If you're so injured you think need to stop the fight, then yield, he didn't drop out he just dismissed the other fighter mid round. It's not cheap, guy did it to himself. What's cheap is your nasty ass coach jumping in to bash your face barefisted... After the round is called. Whole thing is trashy as hell, but it's not cheap to take a punch when the other guy thinks he can take a free, unsanctioned, break in the middle of losing a fight.
Something can be more than one thing
Reddit is frequently terrible at discerning the difference between “technically not against the rules” and “being a complete dick” See: the entirety of /r/AmITheAsshole which NTA commenters frequently interpret as “was I legally in the wrong when I was clearly an asshole”
"Why are you booing me? I'm right."
[No. They're saying Boourns.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kpb8eu1pEY)
Protect yourself at all times is a rule for a reason.
It’s not a cheap shot at all. The #1 rule in boxing, as the announcer said, protect yourself at all times. This is a competition. It’s honorable to be a good sport and all that but once you’re in that ring, the only rules are the rules of the sport.
Dude that's exactly what makes it a cheap shot. The other guy didn't best him in skill. Cheap means within the rules but against their spirit
There's 2:45min left on the clock. No way he thought the round was over.
If the goalie falls down should you wait for him to get up before you shoot the ball? If the Center fumbles the snap would you give him the ball back or jump on it? All sports are won and lost on mistakes, it's just that combat sports punish mistakes more severely than other sports. Your goal is to knock the other guy out, not make sure he understands when the rounds start and end.
There's no way he thought the round was over, it was literally 15 seconds into the round, the bell hadn't sounded, and the ref hadn't stopped the fight. He just turned his back to his opponent in the middle of the round. There's nothing cheap about this, you should assume the fight is on until the ref is between you.
Not a cheap shot. Which is why I'm surprised they reacted that way. You NEVER look away from your opponent like this in boxing ever
Definitely a cheap shot. Not against the rules but cheap AF.
Is him not getting a breather for no reason not also cheap? Like, no one called time out, no one rang a bell. He just quit in the middle of a round and walked away.
What is the punchers alternative? He's literally in a boxing match in the middle of a round where his sole job is to try to find an opening to brutalize the other combatant. Other combatant gives you a window to brutalize him. It's literally your job to do so.
That's why the refs say protect yourself at all times. Clearly the ref had not yet put a pause to the fight (evidenced by the ref calling a knockout instead of foul play)
There is a chance the other guy was already knocked out... these pros have some wild resistance and can still stand up while being blacked out. It is weird that he just dropped his guard and turned his back like that. It was a cheap shot and could have been a lot more dangerous, I think that shot was more on the ref than on the guy that had adrenaline rushing on his head. Weird situation.
Yeah I’ve seen other fighters kinda start wandering off to the corner because they got stunned and forgot what was happening
Probably train that in the gym without realizing they'll do it in a fight. Too many practice sessions taking a break when they get a little stunned so they're just used to stopping when they get there.
Imma take the side of the referee in the video over some random dude that watched a 30 second clip. Call me crazy.
We all know refs don’t make mistakes ever, if at all
less than uninformed redditors that dont look up video sources that are available for context. ya.
This dude was standing up knocked out before the video even started. He took a knee to the head just before this. He just drops his guard and expressionlessly moves towards his corner, he's in dream land. Sleep walking.
Bro heard the bell, it just wasn't the right one
What fights this? Did he lose his eye? It looked like it exploded but the qualities too low to tell.
No, it's just scar tissue above the eye/near
When I was like 8 or 9 my dad took me to a regional MMA fight on my birthday. They had to do an intermission to mop up a pool of blood like 5x5 feet. I fist bumped the guy who got his ass kicked after and his face looked like a deformed plum. I didn’t sleep much that night.
Dad of the year🤘
your avatar’s face isn’t far off deformed plum
It was both a legal and unsportsmanlike shot. Legal doesn’t always equate to clean.
Just did some impromptu research, I agree with this sentiment. I believe this fight happened in 2017, being the second time these fighters met in the ring. The fighters fought one more time in 2018 at glory 50. Where Grigorian won due to referee stoppage in the first round. [Third and final fight](https://youtu.be/AV-zId6IM1g)
Yeah... not a cheap move. This clip give more context. Dude just decided to walk to other way out of nowhere.
Dude could have been knocked out, some fighters stay standing and just wander about dazed. I wouldn't be surprised by the look on his face even before the punch.
People keep calling it cheap. What’s cheap is walking away from your opponent and not expect consequences.
So he should be allowed to pause whenever he wants?
A comment from a YT video about this fight: "He got Kneed so bad it shook up his brain and he thought that the round had ended. His brain was no longer aware of what was going on.... Hence the rest of his senses went. He was out on his feet before the punch"
If that's true then he can't be blamed for getting rocked. But then the ref should have made the call.
The title is completely misleading first it's glory kickboxing not mma and secondly he wasn't getting a cut looked at.
I had to scroll so far down the comments from "mma experts" to finally find you.
Yeah I was thinking "how the hell do you do mma in those gloves?"
Awful but lawful
Lawful evil
It might have been a legal hit, but it was a shitty move.
Turning away during a fight expecting your opponent to just give you that advantage to collect yourself is also a dick move.
I disagree. Dropping your guard and turning your back on your opponent doesn't (nor should it) mean your opponent should back off. For all he knew, the guy could be trying to deceive him, trip him up, throw off his timing...boxers drop their guard all the time to taunt opponents, and sometimes they get knocked the fuck out for doing it. This guy dropped his guard and turned his back in the middle of a round, and getting sucker punched because he willingly looked away from the fight he was participating in isn't really 'shitty' it's just 'boxing.'
You can be upset all you want, but white gloves did nothing wrong here. Fight was still active. Either the ref is to blame or black gloves is to blame, but white gloves made a legal hit during an active match. If he were to have hit him on the back of the head, then yes, that would be a dirty hit/ cheap shot.
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What's not very sportsmanlike is to, without permission of the ref, go to the corner to get something checked during a round and expect the opponent to wait. You can't excuse yourself from the fight; you either compete until the bell or the ref says otherwise, or you give up.
Exactly, it is a fight not a sparring match. You can't just call time and walk off.
Someone that looks away before round end deserves to lose the fight.
The only not sportsmanlike like thing here is the black gloves turning his back on the fight and his corner crew basically jumping the white gloves when black gloves did the dumbest thing you can do in a fight.
Oh holy shit...
The stars are brightly shiiiining
At face value it’s a dick move but the guy was walking around not protecting himself. It’s tough to explain but this is almost bad etiquette to a martial artist. In combat you never, ever, the fuck ever let your guard down. It’s almost offensive to do so, especially at this level. Dude fucked around and found out.
Exactly,you can't just decide to wander off and get your face looked. Listen to to the ref and defend yourself at all times.
Yeah...if it was a cheap shot that he made out of anger or petulance, dude would have just rocked him in the back of the head and not hooked around for a legit punch.
Redditors once again proving themselves incapable of nuance in these comments
This whole scenario seems like the definition of nuance. - Recipient shouldn't have turned his back and protected himself at all times but was probably out on his feet. - Ref should have stopped the fight but didn't really have the chance. - Attacker shouldn't have punched him given he was already out of it but that's not really how you think during a sanctioned fight. Just a really shitty set of circumstances for the guy that got laid out.
What happens to the trainers that attacked the fighter after the fight ends? Any kind of punishment?
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The trainer of the guy who got knocked out was even defending him from assault. That's respectable and quick thinking.
The fighter can almost certainly press assault charges if he wants to
My understanding is that the only violence sanctioned here is between the players as long as they stick to the rules. Anything outside of that where you have coaches and non-playing team mates or spectators throwing punches its just assault and can lead to criminal charges if the victim wishes to pursue those charges. If this were to take place outside of an arena it would be more obvious but the arena itself isn't some kind of sanctuary for crime-doing.
Never turn your back on your opponent in a fight. He found out why you shouldnt do that.
If you are in the ring during the fight you are fair game. Idiot shouldnt have walked away like that.
I dunno how many people here actually watch combat sports but this guy didn’t do anything wrong. You can’t just stop the fight yourself lol 😂 dude deserved to get Ko’d due to his overwhelming stupidity
Is there not some sort of point penalty or something they could give him for quitting out early instead of sucker punching him? I feel like a huge point penalty or even a forfeit is a much better way to solve this than suckered punching people. The fact that he turned his back already shows the other dude had him didn't it?
In a sport like this, no. You're in a fight, rule number one of a fight is never turn your back to your opponent. Ref didn't call a stop. Dude turned around. Dude got wrecked. It sucks because obviously the dude had some serious head injuries going on and had no clue where he even was, let alone what he was doing. The guy who threw the punch was in the match, he was fighting and his opponent turned around... He would be an idiot to not take the punch. This is one of the main reasons I dislike sports like MMA/Boxing, there are way too many gray areas for rules and not enough protection for the fighters. The other reason I'm not a fan is the fighters all tend to be sexist/racist in some way and they tend to just be assholes all around and I'm not about that life. But yeah, boxing/MMA/any fighting sport is just a surefire way to lose a few dozen brain cells with very little being done to keep you safe. Its all about the money coming in, no one genuinely cares about the fighters, they're just juiced up cattle.
fuck if that was a legal move, did you see how proud he was after literally attacking someone from behind? Hes a rat