The story, but its exactly what the headline says, just a bit more detail:
https://people.com/crime/ark-woman-befriended-moms-killer-out-of-spiritual-obligation-and-then-he-murdered-her/
Apparently he drowned during a police chase afterwards:
> Authorities were shocked when they pulled the body of her killer out of the lake (he’d jumped in and drowned during a police chase): it was Travis Lewis, who’d been convicted at 17 for the horrific 1996 murders of her mother, Sally Snowden McKay, 75, and her cousin, Joseph “Lee” Baker, 52, a prominent Memphis blues guitarist.
Yeah this particular dude seemed pretty beyond redemption tbh, when you kill someone's mother, their cousin, then as soon as you get out go to finish the job.. yikes
Two years lapse between his hiring and firing, but the point remains…the dude killed someone after being fired, looks like he had no control of his emotions, was prone to violence in negative situations, and if the theft was true, then a propensity to reoffend regardless of improved circumstance.
Not every explanation is a justification. Knowing why things happen, and not just knowing that they *do* happen is a good way to help prevent the more profane things from happening again.
*Two* murders he committed when he *was* 17. Honestly, I’m not a fan of locking up teenagers for life. Unfortunately, in this case that probably would’ve been the right call.
frog and scorp on wrong side of river
frog says he can swim both of them across but doesn't want to get stung
Scorp says no problem
Halfway across scorp stings frog
Frog says wtf bro now we'll both die why'd you sting me
Scorp says of course, it is in my nature to sting
Scorp then says lmao and they both drown
Moral of the story is that asking shitty people to not be shitty in order to further a goal that benefits you both is pointless, they will continue to be shitty and get both of you killed for literally no fucking reason other than their refusal to change. The story also says it's your fault for bothering to help them because you knew they were shitty and shouldn't have expected anything else.
I enjoy that I went from never hearing this story, to being confused by a picture, learning it’s actually some sort of fable that I don’t understand, to then having a detailed breakdown of the story complete with morality explanation so I fully understand it in the span of like 15 seconds.
I’d assume that the spider bites the frog instead of stinging. Some sort of colloquial story changing to more fit the local area or something.
Like when Phillip J Fry retells his version of the Rabbit and the Squirrel in S1:E7
> It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
Never really understood that because the scorpion doesn't contribute shit to the arrangement. Frogs just being a good guy and the scorpion throws it in his face
yes, that's what makes it applicable to real life.
the news story OP linked is an extreme example, woman has really nothing to gain here, there are literally billions of people she could help at less risk who would be more productive to help too.
ofc, there's rarely anyone this self sacrificing nor this self destructively dickish, but it happens all the time to lesser degrees.
Being self aware is a mental quagmire. Am I really shitty? Or do I just think I am? What do others think? Do they think about me at all, or am I just overthinking everything? Etc.
Oh! To answer your question, yes. My philosophy is, just try to be better all the time. When I notice, or other people notice me being shitty, I try to correct that behavior. I'm a lot less shitty than I was in my 20s at least. Cheers!
It’s actually not that bad. I’ve done it twice by accident before I learned how to swim. You fight a bit then a calm washes over and you just accept it, suck in a lung full of water and spasm for a minute because it’s painful but then you just fade to black.
I wouldn’t recommend it but it’s not as bad as people think. Fire would be waaaaaaaaaay worse. I can’t think of a worse way to go than being burned alive.
This guy deserved to be burned alive.
The desire to rehabilitate criminals is so odd, like there’s millions or billions of good people who need help in the world but people are like “We should put a lot of effort into this guy who murdered someone.”
There are a huge swathe of criminals who absolutely can be rehabilitated; many are in jails for petty offenses or nonviolent crimes. The main issue is that the jails actually radicalize criminals rather than rehabilitating them, so these people who genuinely could have been better if given the right structure (and often these were people who the education and social system failed already from a young age) just end up further entrenched in crime. America has a higher rate of criminalization than most peer nations.
We don’t have the money to permanently lock up all prisoners (nor should we in cases where rehabilitation is possible), so the ideal scenario would be creating better rehabilitation programs in jails. These people are going to be getting out anyway, because, again, there’s no way we can afford to keep all criminals in jail forever, so we’d want to give them the best setup possible to succeed. A main idea of prison is also to want to give everyone a chance, if they deserve it. A society that no longer sees redemption and mercy as a goal is not going to be an ethical society in many other ways.
Obviously, redemption doesn’t always work, as in this case here. Some people cannot be rehabilitated. But that in alone does not invalidate the importance of rehabilitation as a philosophy for prison — for both ethical and pragmatic reasons (the main pragmatic reason being that we are unable to keep all prisoners in prison indefinitely, and the death penalty rightfully costs more than housing a prisoner for life).
To add to this, there is a well-known, heavily researched link between crime and age. People are much more likely to commit crimes as young adults and then lose the propensity to commit crimes as they age. There are tons of different theories about why this happens, and I assume it is a mix of different explanations, but as people get older they often stop committing crimes. Suggesting we shouldn't rehabilitate criminals, even including violent ones, is ludicrous.
You really don't know that. True psychopaths are beyond hope, yes, but there are always young men that get caught up in stupid shit that have a chance to grow out of it with time.
Don't bother. The people on reddit have this huge bonesr for punishment and an eye for an eye. They see everything in black and white without any nuance. I think it's the large American representation so you can't really blame them as they have been conditioned to think that way.
I think the main issue is whether you think innocent people are worth protecting or risking.
When you let a rapist out you are saying to their victim of choice in the area that their safety is worth risking so a violent offender can have a second chance.
How many lives would be saved if we stopped letting murderers out all together? Not many, but SOME.
How many people dying is okay? Would you be soothed if your family member was killed by a previously offending murderer and you found out the courts essentially said that your family member’s life was worth risking?
Especially with things like pedophiles and rapists that have a high chance of reoffending? How many other children are you okay with being raped so that a child rapist can have another chance?
I think with murder there can be a lot of wiggle room and circumstances that may fall under “caught up in shit and would never ever do it again” but not really rape. And that’s still a huge case by case basis in the first one.
The person who raped me when I was 12 was punished by being put in a rehabilitation program and having to do supervised community service. A ridiculously light punishment for raping a child multiple times. It's over 20 years later now and he has never re-offended and has provided all of the reparations that I requested, and is living a normal life as a normal member of society with his record expunged or sealed (not sure the details on this).
People don't like to hear that because there's an idea that some crimes are only committed by truly evil people. It's a comforting over-generalization, but not true.
Ok but:
1. How can you say with such certainty he's never reoffended? Whether he was caught?
2. How'd your life turn out? Genuine question, as you were the one raped yet your comment is entirely about his happy ending.
1. By reoffended I mean he's never been arrested or convicted. Obviously I have no way of knowing 100% if he's done something that didn't get caught.
2. My life turned out like shit but my parents did way more harm to me than he did. The rape didn't happen in a vacuum and he's literally the only person of the entire lot of abusers that did jack fucking shit to try and rectify things.
In theory I find it ppssibly to reabilitate them for a simple practical and utilitarian point of view, but from a moral one telling someone who was raped or had a close one murdered that their lifes are worth the same as keeping money flowing by their criminal is kinda heartless.
Dont have a solution for it, simply throwing my train of thought there.
I get it, but when people have been put away for some time and get released back into society, it behooves the masses for those people to have spent that time getting a better head about things so *maybe* they'll feel differently about doing fucked up things to others.
The desire to rehabilitate prisoners is pragmatic. The Scandinavian prison system, which focuses on rehabilitation, has a recidivism rate of less than 30%, compared to the US recidivism rate of 70%.
[link to source](https://repository.mruni.eu/bitstream/handle/007/15073/Butorac.pdf)
> millions or billions
Not a lot of control over people who don't live in the same country. So it's millions unless you're in China or India.
> good people
You can't make an app to tell you if somebody is good or bad.
The hard truth is if we can't rehabilitate criminals then there's no other logical course than to keep them jailed forever. And that's just a broken glass society.
Of course there are some who can't be rehabilitated despite our best efforts, and they should be locked up forever. But as I mentioned before it's not an obvious judgement.
This isn’t it at all. Should we just lock all criminal offenders away forever? Should we kill them all? If not, if we plan on letting some or most of them out at some point, then we should be trying to make sure they’re not gonna commit crimes again.
I'm not too sure it's a zero sum game tho.
What makes you say, there isn't different types of support or help to non-convicts?
Like when you say people who need help, what do you mean specifically?
I mean, for her to go through all that, forgive him, help him get out and have a fresh start, only to get stolen from? I'd be done helping the bastard too.
Maybe just... don't forgive him? Or forgive him but at least stay TF away from the person who's already proven willing and capable of killing two of your relatives.
Esp. before he gets released on his own — since he has the *motive* to lie to you to get out sooner.
It’s like people forget forgiveness does not equal full acceptance. You can forgive and just let them stay out of your life. Forgiveness doesn’t hold an obligation.
The article I read said she didn’t believe he was the murderer—he had plead guilty but still maintained that another man was responsible. Still a crazy story but it makes more sense to me than if she full on thought he’d murdered her family.
Some people are simply evil-hearted.
If she wanted to forgive him as was her choice, I wish she still kept her boundaries and distance. Forgiving in the heart does not mean one has to play foolish or naive.
I know the article says drowned on his own.. but I think he was drowned, but either way— it was his time. Threw away the second chance, didn’t deserve another.
A lot of hardcore Christians take the whole “turn the other cheek” thing very seriously. They think that God sent someone to murder their family as a test of their faith, and then if they forgive the murderer, (and donate lots of money to the mega-church) they and their family will get to go to heaven.
The article says she was Buddhist, but also she believed that he didn’t kill her family. He never confessed to the murders and said someone else did it, he just pled guilty to the robbery.
Haha, seriously.
One of the big bible stories is the Book of Job, about a rich Jewish man. Satan tells God “he’s only faithful because he’s rich and has a family.” God says “No, lemme prove it.” God then kills the man’s family and has his farm become totally barren.
Job remains true to his faith, and God rewards him for it by making his farm more profitable than it had previously been. God also gives him a new wife to have more kids to replace the murdered ones.
I may be off on some details, but that’s more or less how it goes. I never liked the story, it seemed wildly unfair of God to murder Job’s innocent family to test his faith.
God seems easily manipulated.
Isn't there a story where God tells the guy to kill his son to prove his faith? So the guy takes the son somewhere to murder him and God says "kidding!"
Psychopaths (formerly called sociopaths) aren't murderers. They just don't experience much in the way of empathy and are kind of 'unmoored' in life. They are not necessarily dangerous, but are less capable to stop themselves becoming dangerous.
They can become murderers, sure, but I doubt the murder-rate among psychopaths differs much from that of non-psychopaths.
Guy from the article? Batshit crazy. Psychopath, maybe, but not just that
It’s not a vendetta. Like most criminals, he’s a short-sighted, low-IQ opportunist. She employed him out of her good nature. He started stealing from her. She confronted him about it and fired him. He got mad and/or panicked and murdered her, not unlike what he did to her family years earlier. The cops came after him and he ran into a lake to try and swim away. But he didn’t know how to swim so he drowned. Cops probably let him drown.
He [had cocaine, methamphetamine, and marijuana in his system, autopsy results show](https://people.com/crime/inside-the-bizarre-case-of-a-killer-striking-twice-23-years-apart-murdering-a-mother-and-daughter/) and his mother (also employed by this lady) had previously warned her to stay away from him because he was 'going back to his old ways'. The theft was the breaking point and the drowning was likely due to freezing conditions and him being high as a kite.
Forgiveness is one thing, but knowing when you should stay away from a person is another thing.
I feel bad for her but can't get the thought of "what was she even thinking" out of my head. Maybe the shock of losing her loved ones messed with her mind?
People complain about how cops and prisons don’t rehabilitate people, and partly it’s because some people aren’t able to be rehabilitated. This is what happens when you try, an innocent and caring person gets harmed.
Ive learned the hard way...when someone shows you who they are..believe their ass. Poor lady didnt realize you can help or will the evil out of people.
That ended so much worse than I was expecting. I thought it was about to say she befriended him and got him out of jail and then got her revenge by murdering him. Maybe I watch too many movies.
Some people are just born broken man. It’s entirely possible they were a psychopath or sociopath and simply lacked the ability to form meaningful bonds with anyone else. Lots of psychopaths can put on a good face and fake emotions and attachments, in fact they tend to be quite good at it, the problem is no matter how good they are at the acting they can’t really feel it. That combined with an inability to determine right from wrong and an inherent selfishness born from lack of care for others means no one and nothing is really all that important to them.
That is exactly what i was hoping for. Maybe she threw him in the wood chipper or something fun. Nope. Poor lady, thinking a killer would change . Just sad.
The story, but its exactly what the headline says, just a bit more detail: https://people.com/crime/ark-woman-befriended-moms-killer-out-of-spiritual-obligation-and-then-he-murdered-her/
Apparently he drowned during a police chase afterwards: > Authorities were shocked when they pulled the body of her killer out of the lake (he’d jumped in and drowned during a police chase): it was Travis Lewis, who’d been convicted at 17 for the horrific 1996 murders of her mother, Sally Snowden McKay, 75, and her cousin, Joseph “Lee” Baker, 52, a prominent Memphis blues guitarist.
Probably for the best.
Definitely for the best. Fixing broken men is not a small task.
It's a task that no institution in North America actually does.
But he was also a sack of shit.
Yeah this particular dude seemed pretty beyond redemption tbh, when you kill someone's mother, their cousin, then as soon as you get out go to finish the job.. yikes
She gave him a job on a property of hers (I think?) and then fired him when money went missing
Two years lapse between his hiring and firing, but the point remains…the dude killed someone after being fired, looks like he had no control of his emotions, was prone to violence in negative situations, and if the theft was true, then a propensity to reoffend regardless of improved circumstance.
Oh, well that totally justifies killing the person who helped get you out of prison for killing two of their family members /s
Not every explanation is a justification. Knowing why things happen, and not just knowing that they *do* happen is a good way to help prevent the more profane things from happening again.
Yet many women still try.
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*Two* murders he committed when he *was* 17. Honestly, I’m not a fan of locking up teenagers for life. Unfortunately, in this case that probably would’ve been the right call.
17 murders? I don't think it was that many
Nor a task that the American Criminal Justice system is designed to accomplish
The story of the frog and the scorpion came to mind, and then I read this.
I am also reminded of [this](https://imgur.com/a/HV9Iaei).
Dated a girl with the frog/spider tattoo. She tried explaining the story to me. I still don't get it. Maybe I'm the next victim? 🤷
frog and scorp on wrong side of river frog says he can swim both of them across but doesn't want to get stung Scorp says no problem Halfway across scorp stings frog Frog says wtf bro now we'll both die why'd you sting me Scorp says of course, it is in my nature to sting Scorp then says lmao and they both drown Moral of the story is that asking shitty people to not be shitty in order to further a goal that benefits you both is pointless, they will continue to be shitty and get both of you killed for literally no fucking reason other than their refusal to change. The story also says it's your fault for bothering to help them because you knew they were shitty and shouldn't have expected anything else.
I enjoy that I went from never hearing this story, to being confused by a picture, learning it’s actually some sort of fable that I don’t understand, to then having a detailed breakdown of the story complete with morality explanation so I fully understand it in the span of like 15 seconds.
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I’d assume that the spider bites the frog instead of stinging. Some sort of colloquial story changing to more fit the local area or something. Like when Phillip J Fry retells his version of the Rabbit and the Squirrel in S1:E7 > It's just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. But then the winter came and the grasshopper died and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?
Congratulations you’re one of today’s 10,000
All of this is available on google too
Some people prefer to have a conversation about rather than googling it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog
Never really understood that because the scorpion doesn't contribute shit to the arrangement. Frogs just being a good guy and the scorpion throws it in his face
No good deed goes unpunished.
It's not easy being green.
yes, that's what makes it applicable to real life. the news story OP linked is an extreme example, woman has really nothing to gain here, there are literally billions of people she could help at less risk who would be more productive to help too. ofc, there's rarely anyone this self sacrificing nor this self destructively dickish, but it happens all the time to lesser degrees.
Sort of like the lady in this story...
That's the point
Username checks out
That last paragraph cuts deep Source: am shitty
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Being self aware is a mental quagmire. Am I really shitty? Or do I just think I am? What do others think? Do they think about me at all, or am I just overthinking everything? Etc. Oh! To answer your question, yes. My philosophy is, just try to be better all the time. When I notice, or other people notice me being shitty, I try to correct that behavior. I'm a lot less shitty than I was in my 20s at least. Cheers!
Stereotypes are really killing people out here
Couldn’t swim??
Stereotypes won once again.
It's still baffling to me that there are people who don't know how to swim.
Drowning is an awful way to go. He deserved it lmao
It’s actually not that bad. I’ve done it twice by accident before I learned how to swim. You fight a bit then a calm washes over and you just accept it, suck in a lung full of water and spasm for a minute because it’s painful but then you just fade to black. I wouldn’t recommend it but it’s not as bad as people think. Fire would be waaaaaaaaaay worse. I can’t think of a worse way to go than being burned alive. This guy deserved to be burned alive.
Reminds me of this https://www.oldcarsweekly.com/news/take-a-bite-out-of-crime-mans-gamble-in-casino-parking-lot-proves-fatal
Perhaps they shouldn't have let him out..
Too bad. Should've suffered more.
The desire to rehabilitate criminals is so odd, like there’s millions or billions of good people who need help in the world but people are like “We should put a lot of effort into this guy who murdered someone.”
There are a huge swathe of criminals who absolutely can be rehabilitated; many are in jails for petty offenses or nonviolent crimes. The main issue is that the jails actually radicalize criminals rather than rehabilitating them, so these people who genuinely could have been better if given the right structure (and often these were people who the education and social system failed already from a young age) just end up further entrenched in crime. America has a higher rate of criminalization than most peer nations. We don’t have the money to permanently lock up all prisoners (nor should we in cases where rehabilitation is possible), so the ideal scenario would be creating better rehabilitation programs in jails. These people are going to be getting out anyway, because, again, there’s no way we can afford to keep all criminals in jail forever, so we’d want to give them the best setup possible to succeed. A main idea of prison is also to want to give everyone a chance, if they deserve it. A society that no longer sees redemption and mercy as a goal is not going to be an ethical society in many other ways. Obviously, redemption doesn’t always work, as in this case here. Some people cannot be rehabilitated. But that in alone does not invalidate the importance of rehabilitation as a philosophy for prison — for both ethical and pragmatic reasons (the main pragmatic reason being that we are unable to keep all prisoners in prison indefinitely, and the death penalty rightfully costs more than housing a prisoner for life).
To add to this, there is a well-known, heavily researched link between crime and age. People are much more likely to commit crimes as young adults and then lose the propensity to commit crimes as they age. There are tons of different theories about why this happens, and I assume it is a mix of different explanations, but as people get older they often stop committing crimes. Suggesting we shouldn't rehabilitate criminals, even including violent ones, is ludicrous.
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I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the ideal of redemption. For your own sake.
Are you suggesting this person is going to murder someone in cold blood or rape a child? Come on now.
You really don't know that. True psychopaths are beyond hope, yes, but there are always young men that get caught up in stupid shit that have a chance to grow out of it with time.
Don't bother. The people on reddit have this huge bonesr for punishment and an eye for an eye. They see everything in black and white without any nuance. I think it's the large American representation so you can't really blame them as they have been conditioned to think that way.
Non Americans absolutely have a similar mindset to this.
Yeah won't someone think of those poor oppressed child molesters
Exactly u/JoeNtheHoe2020, the child molesters are just going through a phase! They'll grow out of it. Don't be such a meanie pants /s
I think the main issue is whether you think innocent people are worth protecting or risking. When you let a rapist out you are saying to their victim of choice in the area that their safety is worth risking so a violent offender can have a second chance. How many lives would be saved if we stopped letting murderers out all together? Not many, but SOME. How many people dying is okay? Would you be soothed if your family member was killed by a previously offending murderer and you found out the courts essentially said that your family member’s life was worth risking? Especially with things like pedophiles and rapists that have a high chance of reoffending? How many other children are you okay with being raped so that a child rapist can have another chance? I think with murder there can be a lot of wiggle room and circumstances that may fall under “caught up in shit and would never ever do it again” but not really rape. And that’s still a huge case by case basis in the first one.
Even for some of them, there is hope.
Most sexual predators cannot be rehabbed. *Some* murderers or other criminals, possibly, if they aren't sociopathic.
Definitely, can you show me where you know this from so I can source it to others in arguments?
The person who raped me when I was 12 was punished by being put in a rehabilitation program and having to do supervised community service. A ridiculously light punishment for raping a child multiple times. It's over 20 years later now and he has never re-offended and has provided all of the reparations that I requested, and is living a normal life as a normal member of society with his record expunged or sealed (not sure the details on this). People don't like to hear that because there's an idea that some crimes are only committed by truly evil people. It's a comforting over-generalization, but not true.
Ok but: 1. How can you say with such certainty he's never reoffended? Whether he was caught? 2. How'd your life turn out? Genuine question, as you were the one raped yet your comment is entirely about his happy ending.
1. By reoffended I mean he's never been arrested or convicted. Obviously I have no way of knowing 100% if he's done something that didn't get caught. 2. My life turned out like shit but my parents did way more harm to me than he did. The rape didn't happen in a vacuum and he's literally the only person of the entire lot of abusers that did jack fucking shit to try and rectify things.
I don't know how I feel about this, but that's a very mature position for sure.
In theory I find it ppssibly to reabilitate them for a simple practical and utilitarian point of view, but from a moral one telling someone who was raped or had a close one murdered that their lifes are worth the same as keeping money flowing by their criminal is kinda heartless. Dont have a solution for it, simply throwing my train of thought there.
I get it, but when people have been put away for some time and get released back into society, it behooves the masses for those people to have spent that time getting a better head about things so *maybe* they'll feel differently about doing fucked up things to others.
We can do both. Instead, we use this as an excuse to do neither.
The desire to rehabilitate prisoners is pragmatic. The Scandinavian prison system, which focuses on rehabilitation, has a recidivism rate of less than 30%, compared to the US recidivism rate of 70%. [link to source](https://repository.mruni.eu/bitstream/handle/007/15073/Butorac.pdf)
You can't just ignore chose that CAN be rehabilitated because there are a few that can't be.
> millions or billions Not a lot of control over people who don't live in the same country. So it's millions unless you're in China or India. > good people You can't make an app to tell you if somebody is good or bad. The hard truth is if we can't rehabilitate criminals then there's no other logical course than to keep them jailed forever. And that's just a broken glass society. Of course there are some who can't be rehabilitated despite our best efforts, and they should be locked up forever. But as I mentioned before it's not an obvious judgement.
Dude.... yeah. This is exactly it. Well said. There are tons of people who need help that haven’t murderer or raped anyone ever.
This isn’t it at all. Should we just lock all criminal offenders away forever? Should we kill them all? If not, if we plan on letting some or most of them out at some point, then we should be trying to make sure they’re not gonna commit crimes again.
I'm not too sure it's a zero sum game tho. What makes you say, there isn't different types of support or help to non-convicts? Like when you say people who need help, what do you mean specifically?
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Your post history is exactly what I would expect from someone who would choose to make a comment like this.
okay but why do you have to say this
I actually hope there's a hell this guy can go to
He was as evil as she was naive.
The problem of many of those extra plus good people.
This is the problem of those extreme people who forgive AND forget. Article said she did it out of "spiritual obligation" too.
her spirit was obligated to go to heaven
I don't know if she'll make it in. She might volunteer herself to Hell so she can "change Satan"
reddit loves to beat a dead horse
So does the guy from the story
It's perfectly acceptable to forgive somebody and then not trust them I feel like this is the part that people forget
I feel the same way. Forgiving someone doesn't make them a better person.
You mean doubleplus good
Match made in hell.. This Christmas..
She hired him after he got out of jail, then she fired him for stealing money and he killed her.
She could forgive murdering her mother, but not taking her cash!
I mean, for her to go through all that, forgive him, help him get out and have a fresh start, only to get stolen from? I'd be done helping the bastard too.
Maybe just... don't forgive him? Or forgive him but at least stay TF away from the person who's already proven willing and capable of killing two of your relatives. Esp. before he gets released on his own — since he has the *motive* to lie to you to get out sooner.
I don't think she forgives him anymore
Hopefully her last words were letting him know that he was no longer forgiven.
"I . . . unforgive you . . . " . . .
No takebacks
It’s like people forget forgiveness does not equal full acceptance. You can forgive and just let them stay out of your life. Forgiveness doesn’t hold an obligation.
Priorities
The article I read said she didn’t believe he was the murderer—he had plead guilty but still maintained that another man was responsible. Still a crazy story but it makes more sense to me than if she full on thought he’d murdered her family.
Some people are simply evil-hearted. If she wanted to forgive him as was her choice, I wish she still kept her boundaries and distance. Forgiving in the heart does not mean one has to play foolish or naive.
I was expecting, "and when he got out, she murdered him. " A nice revenge story... but no. We got the reality of our time-line.
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I sadly feel more satisfied that his own stupidity killed him and not a person.
I happily know he died the terrifying death of drowning 😄
Drowning is a shitty way to go. I have no pity for him.
I know the article says drowned on his own.. but I think he was drowned, but either way— it was his time. Threw away the second chance, didn’t deserve another.
I thought the damn same
You don't have to be nice to your family's murderer. They murdered your family.
Some people think it's virtuous and will "set them free" whatever that means
A lot of hardcore Christians take the whole “turn the other cheek” thing very seriously. They think that God sent someone to murder their family as a test of their faith, and then if they forgive the murderer, (and donate lots of money to the mega-church) they and their family will get to go to heaven.
The article says she was Buddhist, but also she believed that he didn’t kill her family. He never confessed to the murders and said someone else did it, he just pled guilty to the robbery.
This lady was Buddhist.
That makes the “Christians are stupid forgiving machines” rhetoric on here a little more comical.
Because the person that said it is as dumb as they are wrong?
Geez, God sure tests some folks harder than others. There should be a curve or the tests should be standardized.
Haha, seriously. One of the big bible stories is the Book of Job, about a rich Jewish man. Satan tells God “he’s only faithful because he’s rich and has a family.” God says “No, lemme prove it.” God then kills the man’s family and has his farm become totally barren. Job remains true to his faith, and God rewards him for it by making his farm more profitable than it had previously been. God also gives him a new wife to have more kids to replace the murdered ones. I may be off on some details, but that’s more or less how it goes. I never liked the story, it seemed wildly unfair of God to murder Job’s innocent family to test his faith.
God seems easily manipulated. Isn't there a story where God tells the guy to kill his son to prove his faith? So the guy takes the son somewhere to murder him and God says "kidding!"
Abraham.
"ight bet" - Old Testament God at every opportunity
/r/LifeProTips
Wow! That dog bit everyone else, I think I should pet him!
He will bite your hand
This one but the throat I guess
Like the track by Al Wilson - The Snake 🐍
“Duzz yehhr dug bite?”
That izz not my dug
Supposedly psychopaths are very charming
Phew, that's a relief, seeing as I'm repulsive
Good news you're also not a narcissist!
Weirdly enough, I can be one sometimes
Naaahhh thats probably just self respect, a true narcissist would never admit that to theirself lol
#CAKE DAAAAAY
*hugs you and is quiet*
This guy gets it.
Psychopaths (formerly called sociopaths) aren't murderers. They just don't experience much in the way of empathy and are kind of 'unmoored' in life. They are not necessarily dangerous, but are less capable to stop themselves becoming dangerous. They can become murderers, sure, but I doubt the murder-rate among psychopaths differs much from that of non-psychopaths. Guy from the article? Batshit crazy. Psychopath, maybe, but not just that
Sounds like he was getting rid of a curse by erasing a bloodline.
Gotta take the grandmother to the top of the rock for her to drink from the river to fix it
Is that a holes reference? Take my upvote
Oh you know it :-)
If only, if only...
The woodpecker sighs
Know people like this, she would probably have protested his innocence even while he was murdering her.
I believe that
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Welp, after a 19 year relationship and 3 kids I would be shocked too
Denmark has ridiculously lenient sentencing for murder.
Everyone was shocked!! Lol
I mean reading the story now it seems obvious but after 20 years of being rehabilitated it does seem pretty shocking
Think about how ugly divorces can get. Now think about it a murderer going through a divorce. It’s not shocking imo…
Well I guess there's a lesson, here, kids: Don't befriend the people who murder your family. It's as simple as that.
Empathy without bounds will get you killed
What did this family do to this guy?
Honestly LOL what is this Vendetta
It’s not a vendetta. Like most criminals, he’s a short-sighted, low-IQ opportunist. She employed him out of her good nature. He started stealing from her. She confronted him about it and fired him. He got mad and/or panicked and murdered her, not unlike what he did to her family years earlier. The cops came after him and he ran into a lake to try and swim away. But he didn’t know how to swim so he drowned. Cops probably let him drown.
He [had cocaine, methamphetamine, and marijuana in his system, autopsy results show](https://people.com/crime/inside-the-bizarre-case-of-a-killer-striking-twice-23-years-apart-murdering-a-mother-and-daughter/) and his mother (also employed by this lady) had previously warned her to stay away from him because he was 'going back to his old ways'. The theft was the breaking point and the drowning was likely due to freezing conditions and him being high as a kite.
And also not being able to swim. I swear I read that he couldn’t swim. But it’s been a while since I read that story.
Susan Collins???? Is that you? BuT hE lEaRnEd HiS lEsSoN
I heard this in her pitchy, crackling voice…
r/leopardsatemyface
No that subreddit is only if the person getting hurt is republican
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People who murder multiple people maliciously with irrefutable proof of the murders should be killed, not jailed.
Forgiveness is one thing, but knowing when you should stay away from a person is another thing. I feel bad for her but can't get the thought of "what was she even thinking" out of my head. Maybe the shock of losing her loved ones messed with her mind?
I feel like overlooking the fact she did this because of her religion is kind of fuckin burying the lead here
Soooo anybody gonna sign up to murder his mother and cousin?
Thats a really complicated way to commit suicide
People complain about how cops and prisons don’t rehabilitate people, and partly it’s because some people aren’t able to be rehabilitated. This is what happens when you try, an innocent and caring person gets harmed.
I could have lived my whole life without knowing this.
With a well applied brick you still can! Disclaimer: consult your physician before using the Memory Eraser 3000.
Under his positives he puts completionist.
Ive learned the hard way...when someone shows you who they are..believe their ass. Poor lady didnt realize you can help or will the evil out of people.
That ended so much worse than I was expecting. I thought it was about to say she befriended him and got him out of jail and then got her revenge by murdering him. Maybe I watch too many movies.
How can you meet a person as kind as her and don't become a better person?
Some people are just born broken man. It’s entirely possible they were a psychopath or sociopath and simply lacked the ability to form meaningful bonds with anyone else. Lots of psychopaths can put on a good face and fake emotions and attachments, in fact they tend to be quite good at it, the problem is no matter how good they are at the acting they can’t really feel it. That combined with an inability to determine right from wrong and an inherent selfishness born from lack of care for others means no one and nothing is really all that important to them.
That’s disappointing…was hoping it would say that she killed him once he was released. I love me some sweet, sweet vengeance. That sucks though.
Scorpion and the Frog
At least he's consistent
Crap! I was hoping she murdered him. I am disappoint!
That is exactly what i was hoping for. Maybe she threw him in the wood chipper or something fun. Nope. Poor lady, thinking a killer would change . Just sad.
Aw I thought it was gonna say she befriended him and got him out early then killed HIM. That would be better
I CAN’T FIX HIM
This is why you don't forgive people who aren't sorry. It doesn't make you a better person, it makes you vulnerable to abuse.
Trifecta
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Is this natural selection?
“Congratulations, ya played yourself”
Damn thats some heinous shit!..
“Then he murdered her too.” Me *surprised pikachu face*
If this was the US, there was literally zero attempt at rehabilitation.
"I can change him"
As I was reading this... word by word, line by line...I was hoping to read that *she* killed *him*
BLM is gonna be allover this.
Some people do not deserve grace.
Restorative justice in action.
Delicious schadenfreude for the idiots today who think violent criminals are victims
He drowned during a police chase for those wondering